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So, I agree with merging this article back to the article Italianization. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] 14:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
So, I agree with merging this article back to the article Italianization. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] 14:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
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:The article is correct as it is, it was recntly splitted. Italianization is a linguistic, historic, cultural phenomena. The fascist italanization is just a small aspect of this (and the worst, BTW). Other claims by R and Z. are disputable POVs. The same article is present even in the Italian, Norvegian and German wikipedia. --[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 23:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
:The article is correct as it is, it was recntly splitted. Italianization is a linguistic, historic, cultural phenomena. The fascist italanization is just a small aspect of this (and the worst, BTW). Other claims by R and Z. are disputable POVs. The same article is present even in the Italian, Norvegian and German wikipedia. --[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 23:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
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== Vandalism == |
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The edit below is total vandalism. |
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[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171549206&oldid=171400838] |
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You, [[User:Ghepeu]], have no right to delete entire paragraph just because you do not like to have your dirty laundry here displayed. |
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It is Well known what Napolitano said.Documented very well! |
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--Anto 13:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 13:30, 15 November 2007
Italy Redirect‑class | |||||||
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Italianization was a natural process in Istria over the time because the diferences betwin slavic, usualy workers, and italians, usualy masters, work like a pressure factor.In this case every slvic who become rich people in fact become italian. By the other way italians were the symbol of culture (e.g. Renaissance)and normaly slavic people try be integreted into a herittage of roman emperium.Over the century the italianization was a peacefuly process that means was accepted and wanted by slavic.
In relation with the germanic it is better to observe what is happend in last 100 years with romansh in Gritschum and with italians in Ticino (Swisse).The germans press in south by 1000 years, Swiss colonization in detriment of the romanic(french,italin and romansch)it is the main proof.Italianization against the germanic?It is not true.
About the relationship betwin french people and italians we have to see the situation of Nisa.At the begining of the xix century was a italian city and now italian language was vanishid from area.Italianization in relation with french?Where?
IN THIS CASE I ASK FOR URGENTLY MODIFICATION OF THIS PAGE BECAUSE IT S CONTENT IS MALICIOS AND ANTI-ITALIN. BY THE WAY I AM NOT ITALIAN. --proturism 04:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The slavic are not natives in Dalmatia == --proturism 03:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
- Neither the Italians if we think that a population who lives in a region for 1300 years can't be considered autochtonous. GhePeU 11:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Not alone.With istroromanian the real natives of this area (by the way a lot of them forced to become slavic), with ragusan and morlach(black wallach)(vanished by slavic), and with italian.Of corse the istroromanian, ragusan, morlach and italian are the people who are the real autochtonus inhabitants of Dalmatia and Illiricum like have their ancestors the roman. Of all the Romance languages, it could be said that Romanian(and istroromanian like a dialect of romanian) is the most archaic one, having retained, for example, the inflected structure of Latin grammar.That prove the slavic are not the real native of this area.--proturism 01:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- This is true, but I don't think that we can adopt this approach, I prefer to assume that someone who lives in a region for more than two centuries can be considered native. If the Dalmatian and Istrian slavs are not autochtonous of a place where they live since VII century, what are they? GhePeU 09:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Terms natives and autochthonous means people who formed or originating in the place were found.(Merriam Webster s Dictionary)--proturism 09:30, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
- We can discuss this but, please, edit without removing all the wiki tags. I can agree on the removal of autochtonous, but by removing that term there is no need to specify when Slavs, Germans or French arrived in the area, nor when Italian arrived: the articles on Germans, Italians and Slavs are linked. Also, this article is about the italianization policy; we all know that the adoption of ethnic policies isn't an Italian peculiarity, but the repression of Italians is off topic here: there are specific articles, like Foiba and you could write an article on Alpenvorland. GhePeU 12:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Explain this behaviour
Giovanni Giove, what is this [1]?
What kind of behaviour is that?
Are you on a some kind of crusade on denying of Croatian toponyms and belonging of Eastern Adriatic to Croatia (you especially have a pick on Croatia and Croats), and removing any connection of those areas with Croatia and Croats? Kubura 05:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- Giovanni Giove, are you trying to show us example of violent italization of Croats and Slovenians? Kubura 08:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Ghepeu, what is this [2]?
Why have you removed the following areas affected by the violent italianization of Slovenians: Gorizia, Triest and Carso areas, and areas affected by the violent italianization of Croats: Croatian Littoral - Istria, Kvarner, Rijeka, Gorski Kotar (though, there're also affected small Croat communities in Carso and Triest areas)?
Why are you hiding that? These areas were especially affected by violent italianization. Kubura 08:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not hiding anything. If you check the article history, you can see that I'm removing only the headers, who I find unnecessary because most of them divide the article in sections with a single sentence (and because of bad wording). The exceptions are one clearly non neutral sentence ("Italianisation attempts are still to be found today", "use of Internet for spreading Italian irredentist and revisionist propaganda") and another sentence which has clearly some problems, because it backs a pretended quote ("funny Slavic names") with a Regio Decreto regarding Trento, where there weren't Slavic names at all.GhePeU 08:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
True, Slavs (Croats and Slovenians) are very rare there (in Trento). But, there were the cases of Slovenian and Croat families that somehow got there during centuries - mostly because of economic (and political) reasons, or because they've got the job there, like it was the case in Habsburg Monarchy/Austria-Hungary.
I've found that law on Internet, and there was a Slav person that posted it. In Italian domain.
Don't worry, I'll provide you the other laws, that had as purpose italianization of non-wanted surnames.
Wait till beside Croats, and Slovenians, Austrians/Germans, Greeks and Albanians begin to contribute here. They have to say something about that too. Kubura 09:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Italianization attempts today
About non-neutrality of sentences "Italianisation attempts are still to be found today", "use of Internet for spreading Italian irredentist and revisionist propaganda".
If you think that we're fools over here, on the other side of Adriatic, than you're wrong. Kubura 09:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Italian Constitution Art. 6: "La Repubblica tutela con apposite norme le minoranze linguistiche." (The Republic safeguards by means of appropriate measures linguistic minorities.) And about the "irredentist and revisionist propaganda" I think that after the Yugoslav Wars, you can hardly present Croats, Slovenians, Serbians and Albanians as the most shining examples of toleration. GhePeU 10:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The Republic safeguards by means of appropriate measures linguistic minorities.)
Congratulations! you have given us an excellent example. Italy does not confess the presence of any national minorities but exclusively linguistical. So, according to you there no any national minorities. ALL Italians.Nice way to show respect to minorities. Let's do not forget facts that Slovenian minority can not have their names written using the characters Č Ž Š0 in the official documents. Legally , they are not Slovenes but Slovene speaking Italians. bravo! Nice for the country which has invented fascism. Ave! --Anto 21:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
What did Italian high-positioned political told few months ago, Ghepeu? Who messes with Croatian territory? Do you remember what he said?
Who gave racist anti-Slavic remarks like "Slavic hateridge and vengeance" in 1945? Which country had fascist party on the rule in 1990? I misini, MSI, "Movimento Sociale Italiano" ("post-fascist", as described by its leader)
If you play dumb, Ghepeu, no problem, I'll present the others all the revisionist and open and perfidious expansionism/imperialism that came from Italian political scene.
As I say, wait till the Greeks and Albanians and Austrians/Germans join here. Oh, yes, last but not the least, the Frenchmen. Kubura 22:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
You've removed a reference and a part of referenced text here [3], Ghepeu. You can't do such things.
Especially deleting the lines that are referenced. That, what you've done, is a vandalism.
Now, if I don't want to behave like a vandal, and simply copy my last version and paste it here as new, possibly overwriting someone's good quality contributions, I have to read thoroughlly what you have done in your version.
And now I see that you've removed that line, by simple merging of text, hiding the removed text that way.
You've been warned for the FIRST time.Kubura 08:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
--Raguseo 02:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)== Restored the redirect ==
Giove, restore the article as it was.
You make such changes to article, without asking other contributors for the opinion.
Violent Italianization of non-Italians happened also before fascist regime. Even old Austria-Hungary tolerated such behaviour on its territory (e.g., Austria was stalking with the rights of Croat majority). Kubura 18:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- This article is about the Fascist Italianization.--Giovanni Giove 20:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
You're dismembering the page. Second, I see that again the impacted areas are removed [4] from the article : Slovenians in Gorizia, Triest and Carso areas, Croat populations notably one from Croatian Littoral - Istria, Kvarner, Rijeka, Gorski Kotar....
I also see removed the reference to one of fascist laws, that regulated the forced Italianization. Laws, in which "funny Slavic names" were forbidden and was ordered to "restore them in original Italian form". (e.g. "Regio decreto legge 10 Gennaio 1926, n. 17: Restituzione in forma italiana dei cognomi delle famiglie della provincia di Trento").
That's not the way the things work here, Giove. Kubura 08:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Read well and stop wiht usual useless accusations. Your reference is still inserted, the areas the same (with the correct name). The page was not disembered, but splitted in two indipendent article, because the "Fascist Italiaization" had the 90% of the space of "Italnization".--Giovanni Giove 08:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Merger
I have proposed a merger of this page back with the Italianization. There is no reason to breake article's subsections into different articles. Clearly this is against Wikipedia's policy. --Raguseo 02:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- Forced Italianization of Dalmatia and Istria occured in several periods: during Venetian occupation of Dalmatia (1409-1798) - Venetianization, during Italian administration in the area in 19th century and finally during Italian fascistic years in 20th century. This last Fascist Italianization was ideologically based on previous attempts and was meant to be finalization of it. Articles should be merged. Zenanarh 14:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The Italianizaton and Italian cultural expansionism/imperialism can be seen even today (one of best examples are revisionist and expansionist claims told by highest officials of Italy).
Regarding Italianization before fascism, that's known thing.
E.g., the persecution of Croat friars during Republic of Venice; then, the terrorist methods (perpetrated by pro-Italianists and tolerated by Austria) against pro-Croat voters in Austrian part of the monarchy.
So, I agree with merging this article back to the article Italianization. Kubura 14:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- The article is correct as it is, it was recntly splitted. Italianization is a linguistic, historic, cultural phenomena. The fascist italanization is just a small aspect of this (and the worst, BTW). Other claims by R and Z. are disputable POVs. The same article is present even in the Italian, Norvegian and German wikipedia. --Giovanni Giove 23:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Vandalism
The edit below is total vandalism. [5] You, User:Ghepeu, have no right to delete entire paragraph just because you do not like to have your dirty laundry here displayed. It is Well known what Napolitano said.Documented very well! --Anto 13:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)