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== Requested move 25 May 2020 == |
== Requested move 25 May 2020 == |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. '' |
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The result of the move request was: '''Page moved'''. <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 22:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC) |
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{{requested move/dated|Elizabeth I}} |
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[[:Elizabeth I of England]] → {{no redirect|Elizabeth I}} – Commonname, existing redirect, consistent with articles for other monarchs. [[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 11:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC) |
[[:Elizabeth I of England]] → {{no redirect|Elizabeth I}} – Commonname, existing redirect, consistent with articles for other monarchs. [[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 11:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC) |
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* '''Very strong oppose''': All the monarchs of England before the Union of the Crowns (1603) are styled "of England", even for the names where there is no ambiguity. This situtation seems to suggest that the country name was dropped afterwards to avoid complications like "James VI of Scotland and I of England" or similar examples. The move would be a big disruption to the consistency of page titles for <u>English</u> sovereigns—potentially she could end up being the only monarch <u>of England</u> after William the Conqueror (who was from Normandy) not to have any provenience in the name.<br>Finally, the supposed consistency with Elizabeth II is useless, since we are actually talking about two different kingdoms (in fact she is not styled as "HM The Queen of England"). --[[User:Foghe|Foghe]] ([[User talk:Foghe|talk]]) 22:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC) |
* '''Very strong oppose''': All the monarchs of England before the Union of the Crowns (1603) are styled "of England", even for the names where there is no ambiguity. This situtation seems to suggest that the country name was dropped afterwards to avoid complications like "James VI of Scotland and I of England" or similar examples. The move would be a big disruption to the consistency of page titles for <u>English</u> sovereigns—potentially she could end up being the only monarch <u>of England</u> after William the Conqueror (who was from Normandy) not to have any provenience in the name.<br>Finally, the supposed consistency with Elizabeth II is useless, since we are actually talking about two different kingdoms (in fact she is not styled as "HM The Queen of England"). --[[User:Foghe|Foghe]] ([[User talk:Foghe|talk]]) 22:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Getting hung up on minor technical details practically nobody reading would care about does not do the article any benefit. [[User:Devonian Wombat|Devonian Wombat]] ([[User talk:Devonian Wombat|talk]]) 00:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Getting hung up on minor technical details practically nobody reading would care about does not do the article any benefit. [[User:Devonian Wombat|Devonian Wombat]] ([[User talk:Devonian Wombat|talk]]) 00:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 22:03, 1 June 2020
Elizabeth I is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||
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May not have been told
We are told that "Mary may not have been told of every plot". If the article is going to include everything Mary might and might not have known or been told, it will get very long.
Rollback re: poison death
I just rolled back 2 edits with a theory about Elizabeth's death. Interesting? Yes. Reliable source? No. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:04, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
Her poetry
Unless I have missed it, this article does not mention her poetry. She wrote some fine poems. Seadowns (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Requested move 25 May 2020
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 22:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Elizabeth I of England → Elizabeth I – Commonname, existing redirect, consistent with articles for other monarchs. 17jiangz1 (talk) 11:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Convenience link to last discussion in 2018. Johnbod (talk) 17:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support. This has previously been rejected at a 2018 RM, so is not suitable for uncontroversial moving, but I would support the move. The proposed title is more WP:CONCISE than the current, and sufficiently precise too given that Elizabeth I already redirects here. In fact, given that she was also Queen of Ireland, it's arguably more precise. And it is also WP:CONSISTENT with Elizabeth II and the WP:COMMONNAME in sources. So all policy considerations seem to be satisfied, other than perhaps the WP:NCROY guideline, but we already have exceptions to that so doesn't seem a biggy to me. — Amakuru (talk) 11:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support per Oxford, American Heritage, and Collins. Sixteen dictionaries say "Elizabeth I." Only Wikipedia calls her "Elizabeth I of England." Allan Rice (talk) 12:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support There's no reason why the TV shows inspired by her life, which are the only other targets on the disambig page, showed be considered of equali notability to the woman herself. Kges1901 (talk) 13:07, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support, of course. "Elizabeth I" is by far more common than "Elizabeth I of England". Using the common name is the policy of this encyclopedia. Furthermore, Elizabeth I is one of the absolute majority (27 out of 37) of English monarchs whose name is unambiguous or a clear primary topic. The disambiguative appendix "of England" serves no purpose. Supposedly it provides consistency but consistency has long gone out the window: her successor is at James VI and I and her namesake is at Elizabeth II. Monarchs with similarly unambiguous names that require no disambiguation include all three Richards, all six Edwards, Henry VIII and Mary I, i.e. all of the Tudors bar Henry VII.
The outcome of the 2018 discussion looks very strange to me, with editors referencing a non-existent consistency as if it were a policy and that being accepted by the closer, so I will try to be much clearer and more illustrative this time. These are the works listed in this article that call her Elizabeth I in the title:
MacCaffrey Wallace T. Elizabeth I (1993)
Collinson, Patrick. "Elizabeth I (1533–1603)" in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (2008)
Somerset, Anne (2003), Elizabeth I (1st Anchor Books ed.), London: Anchor Books, ISBN 978-0-385-72157-8.
Haigh, Christopher (2000), Elizabeth I (2nd ed.), Harlow (UK): Longman Pearson, ISBN 978-0-582-43754-8.
Loades, David (2003), Elizabeth I: The Golden Reign of Gloriana, London: The National Archives, ISBN 978-1-903365-43-4.
Howard, Maurice. "Elizabeth I: A Sense Of Place In Stone, Print And Paint", Transactions of the Royal Historical Society, Dec 2004, Vol. 14 Issue 1, pp. 261–268
Ridley, Jasper Godwin (1989). Elizabeth I: The Shrewdness of Virtue. Fromm International.
Greaves, Richard L., ed. Elizabeth I, Queen of England (1974)
Collinson, Patrick. "Elizabeth I and the verdicts of history," Historical Research, Nov 2003, Vol. 76 Issue 194, pp. 469–491
Beem, Charles. The Foreign Relations of Elizabeth I (2011)
Hodges, J. P. The Nature of the Lion: Elizabeth I and Our Anglican Heritage (London: Faith Press, 1962)
McLaren, A. N. Political Culture in the Reign of Elizabeth I: Queen and Commonwealth, 1558–1585 (Cambridge University Press, 1999)
Haigh, Christopher, ed. The Reign of Elizabeth I (1984)
Hulme, Harold (1958). "Elizabeth I and Her Parliaments: The Work of Sir John Neale". Journal of Modern History. 30 (3): 236–240. doi:10.1086/238230. JSTOR 1872838.
Doran, Susan (1996), Monarchy and Matrimony: The Courtships of Elizabeth I, London: Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-11969-6.
McGrath, Patrick (1967), Papists and Puritans under Elizabeth I, London: Blandford Press.
Williams, Neville (1972), The Life and Times of Elizabeth I, London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, ISBN 978-0-297-83168-6.
And here are the works listed in the article that call her Elizabeth I of England:
Surtsicna (talk) 14:08, 25 May 2020 (UTC) - Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support per nom. By the way, in April 2011 there was a proposal to move her father's article to Henry VIII. It received 2 Supports and 1 Oppose, and seems to have gone nowhere. If this present move gets up, it would be timely to revive that move, methinks. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:25, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Rjensen (talk) 03:32, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Unambiguous common name. pburka (talk) 15:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONCISE and WP:CONSISTENT with Elizabeth II. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- weak support per WP:COMMONNAME, although it would have been better if the nominator had put other English monarchs under the same request to abide by the WP:CONSISTENT rules. Keivan.fTalk 06:44, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support - clear common name. Interstellarity (talk) 21:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
- Support per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONCISE and WP:CONSISTENT with Elizabeth II.--Ab207 (talk) 20:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Very strong oppose: All the monarchs of England before the Union of the Crowns (1603) are styled "of England", even for the names where there is no ambiguity. This situtation seems to suggest that the country name was dropped afterwards to avoid complications like "James VI of Scotland and I of England" or similar examples. The move would be a big disruption to the consistency of page titles for English sovereigns—potentially she could end up being the only monarch of England after William the Conqueror (who was from Normandy) not to have any provenience in the name.
Finally, the supposed consistency with Elizabeth II is useless, since we are actually talking about two different kingdoms (in fact she is not styled as "HM The Queen of England"). --Foghe (talk) 22:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC) - Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Getting hung up on minor technical details practically nobody reading would care about does not do the article any benefit. Devonian Wombat (talk) 00:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.