83.71.84.255 (talk) |
|||
Line 196: | Line 196: | ||
Care to inject some more bias? The Russian military being actively involved in the fighting would be a massive developement., as would China's. To make edits that show Russian and Chinese military units being involved in fighting, I think we're going to need more than a single site, who's best interests are in making the government look good. [[User:DaJesuZ|DaJesuZ]] ([[User talk:DaJesuZ|talk]]) 19:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC) |
Care to inject some more bias? The Russian military being actively involved in the fighting would be a massive developement., as would China's. To make edits that show Russian and Chinese military units being involved in fighting, I think we're going to need more than a single site, who's best interests are in making the government look good. [[User:DaJesuZ|DaJesuZ]] ([[User talk:DaJesuZ|talk]]) 19:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC) |
||
I'd rather hear from a non ISIS be-header supporter on this. |
Revision as of 21:34, 26 September 2015
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Template:Syrian Civil War sanctions
Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 |
This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
FSA/JAN liberated Deir al-Zaghb (SW of Al Foah, Idlib); Next Foah?
- Syria News (18.09.2015): Deyr Zughb is fallen
- https://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2015/09/19/syria-idlib-rif-jaf-breakthrough-the-first-defense-lines-of-al-foah/ Yallasouriya (19.09.2015) JAF breakthrough the first defense lines of al Foah]85.110.70.112 (talk) 11:14, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- According to reliable sources, FSA/JAN just captured several military checkpoints in the southern outskirts of Fu'ah [1]. FSA/JAN attacks on Deir al-Zaghb and from al-Suwaghiyah have reportedly been repelled. 84.138.69.94 (talk) 12:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I wonder how a saudi/uighur/chechen/turkmen al qaeda beheader group will liberate anything in Syria from syrians. "reliable sources" The attack after 7 suicide bombers got repelled according to every source on ground. LOL Totholio (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- What you mention as "Saudi/Uighur/Chechen/Turkmen al Qaeda beheader group" are ALL SUNNI people just like the GIANT MAJORITY Syrian people (80% of Syrian population), whereas what you refer as syrians are "Irani/HezboSheytan/Alawite group" and SMALL MINORITY (10% of Syrian population) that administered Syria DICTATORSHIPLY till now (remaining 10% is Christian). Clear? That's why, LIBERATION. 88.224.145.69 (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Could someone ban this guy already? you braindead half of the syrian army is sunni,80% lives in government controlled areas, the first lady and half of the government is sunni, so you believe a 10% minority is at war with the 90% for 5 years and still standing? congratulation. Your sources are only pro beheader like markito :DDDD there will be a ceasefire in the 2 shia cities and Madaya/Zabadani for 2 days, it just started right now. Totholio (talk) 09:47, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- In addition to checkpoints to the south of Fu'ah, Tell al-Kirbeh has now been taken by rebels as well. [2] 84.138.69.94 (talk) 19:51, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
If you want to fight, go to Syria and fight with machine guns or whatever your weapon of choice is. Until, then, stop with the attacks here, as we don't need them and it isn't useful. Syria should be partitioned between the Sunni Arab parts and everything else (Shia, Christian, etc.) That is the only way the long-term conflict will stop. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 20:33, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Foah
Foah is under intense fire. Hence, must be shown as contested.78.168.154.94 (talk) 09:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Nothing will be contested specially not after saudi/uighur/turkmen suicide bombers tried to infiltrate the 2 cities and did nothing. Like this "syrian" "rebel" xD https://twitter.com/DR_SHAHID/status/645246839428546560/photo/1
Ceasefire in 4 cities http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-ceasefire-brokered-in-al-zabadanimadaya-and-al-fouaakafraya/ http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-ceasefire-agreed-for-3-syria-battlegrounds-monitor-2015-9?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29 (SOHR) Totholio (talk) 09:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Please do not link to photos of dead people here. Such photos give no new information but may disturb readers. Nobody doubts that people are dying in Syria, there is no reason to link to such photos, or make fun of their death, be it "rebel", "regime" or IS corpses. But it is true, there is a ceasefire until Monday. Supposedly, rebels will be allowed to remove wounded fighters from Zabadiya, Madaya while the government will be allowed to send humanitarian aid to Fu'ah, Kafraya. 84.138.69.94 (talk) 10:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- FSA/JAN liberated "NE entrance of Foah". 78.168.154.94 (talk) 11:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
You know their an Obama/mc Cain puppet when they use the word "regime" all aboard the zionist bus, to visit Al bagdadi leader of the FSA/AlNusrat/ISIS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyrianObserver2015 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Both your language and sources are unacceptably biased towards officially designated terrorist groups. Deserttanker (talk) 20:30, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
I am shocked from the language used here in this discussion. Is there is no limit to agresive language here ? I thought it had been agreed long long time ago to use terms like rebels/Regime no matter what is your political stand. Also this is not a political forum or the place to discuss if the regime is a minority or rebels are terorists. It is useless and exhaustive and I sugest any one with such mentality is more aload on this page than a help and should just go write on his facebook page whatever he loves Helmy1453 (talk) 13:47, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Map size/fixes
I'm mostly referring to the user Pbfreespace3 . Why are you doing this if I may ask ? What's the point ? I can barely see 40% of the villages you have edited, they are to small, and again what is the point if for example we have 2 villages, one is larger than the other in reality. Previously they had a size of lets say 6 and 5, and you change them to 5 and 4, what's the point, the result is the same but now they're barely visible. You only edited 40% of the map, and some towns are actually marked 3 times smaller than some tiny village. You have to understand that this is not googlemaps, neither wikimapia, this is wikipedia and you can't basically copy/paste their way of editing. This map needs to be visible and big, i mean just look at the Yemen/Lebanon map, look at their sizes. I would ask you to change the size of every village, just add 1 size more, and it will be visible, because know it looks really bad. DuckZz (talk) 22:55, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
My opinion; he´s doing a good job and to me the map appears more realistic. I myself would not "waste" time on this, but it´s not my time. So if Pbfreespace3 wants to put time in it, let him(?) do it. Rhocagil (talk) 23:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Some time ago, several users complained about the map being too cluttered, but the general consensus of the page editors was that the villages should stay, but be reduced in size, to eliminate map clutter, and still give a more accurate representation of where the front line is.Personally, I like this way of doing things; it makes sure that all known towns are still shown, and who controls all of them.DaJesuZ (talk) 13:13, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Let it also be known that I just reverted an obvious point-of-view vandalism edit from SyrianObserver2015, who has pro-government bias in all of his editings and statements. He made many rebel and ISIS-held towns impossible to see by decreasing their sizes drastically, as well as blatantly changing various towns to government control with no sources whatsoever. Even al-Masdar news reports some of these towns are not gov-controlled. He has accused me of being "pro-ISIS scum" and a "jihadi fanboy", which I am not. I have urged him to stop his biased vandalism, although I doubt he will do so. Please be on the lookout for other biased vandalism from him, so you may remove it. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 17:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Indeed I can barely see some places now. Deserttanker (talk) 20:33, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Zabadi and Fuah seacfire
I want to know what is the ruling for purple color (trice) zones. As Zabadi and Midea are marked purple but Fuah and Kufriah stayed red ? where it is the same seacfire ? Is there a eason for this contrast or it is just a mistake ? Helmy1453 (talk) 13:56, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- This is done because whilst Zabadani is contested, Fu'ah and Kafraya are both held firmly by the regime. The truce symbol is only necessary for locations which are divided between two factions to show that there are no clashes there.Prohibited Area (talk) 15:03, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Zabadani will be evacuated complitely to Idlib, Madaya will be not,just the injured. 10 000 civilians(mostly under 18 and 50+) will be evacuated from Fuah/Kafraya in the coming weeks, both groups under the UN security which requires a lot of preparation.Totholio (talk) 18:52, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Learn how to type and speak english properly before you come here making terrorist demands, we have enough pro- isis/FSA/Al nusrat terrorist supporting editors on this map. One more could sink this rubber boat in the mediterian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.100.67 (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Hey you Mr. Rubber boat. Why don't you go kill yourself it would be nicer for humanity if you just die — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.46.189.10 (talk) 16:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
AANNDD purple they went. purple they should have been since I mentioned Helmy1453 (talk) 16:36, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
- What is wrong with people? Stop calling people terrorists. It is clear that you are pro-government and read Leith Fadel because of your use of the slur 'nusrat', which he uses on his twitter. Edits requests of any kind will be answered, regardless of the affiliation of the person making it. Stop with the partisan attacks and actually contribute to the map, or get out now. We don't need trolls here. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 22:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Label
(Location dot blue.svg Druze)
(Location dot blue.svg Local tribe-held) >"old version"
"Al-Asharah"
The change in the label has created a blunder, Al-Asharah has nothing to do with Druze (to my knowledge). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8A0:7F30:A501:B5AA:5B0F:2FD9:355F (talk) 15:09, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
HCPUNXKID AlAboud83 this is your mess, clean it up. Rhocagil (talk) 15:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Druze are officially represented by Blue,choose another color for Shaitat,choose brown.Alhanuty (talk) 18:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Done Cleaned up. Still waiting for ACTUAL RELIABLE SOURCES stating a shared control of Suwayda by SAA-NDF, etc... in one side and independent Druze militias, groups, etc... in the other. Maintaining it on the basis of a single source about events that happened on September 4-5 (and according to all sources, since that date ALL Suwayda city and governorate -except an ISIS-held zone at the northeast- is government-held), is at least suspicious. Let's be serious, if Druze militiamen would have confronted SAA-NDF and gained territory, we would have a few reports, photos, videos, interviews, etc... of that. Look at the examples of Hasakah or Qamishli. This is not the case. So please leave aside the phobias & philias and try to make a credible map...--HCPUNXKID 22:33, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
HCPUNXKID is was relating you to that Al-Asharah still is marked contested blue-black. Rhocagil (talk) 21:37, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Yep, and its because of some heavily biased, POV-driven, staunchly pro-"opposition" (many people would called them terrorists, logically) fanboy unilateral editors who doesnt use reliable sources or manipulate & distort them to the limit, that the blue colour was given unilaterally without any discussion to a ethereal entity called "Druzes", when that sect doesnt control exclusively a single town, and when the vast majority of Druze militiamen are closely allied with the SAA-NDF, wether that editors like it or not, facts are tough...
PD. Regarding Al-Asharah, I will put it back as black, as there are no news about Shaitat tribesmen finally expelling ISIS from that town, or controlling a part of it.--HCPUNXKID 13:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Blue and purple dots
Guys, the blue and purple dots are totally confusing. It seems some editors are using those with no coordination whatsover, resulting in a complete confusion on the map. The purple looks like a new force in the war, while the blue seems redundant (1 dot??). We should decide what is the exact usage of blue prior to implementing it (Druze, unaffiliated, etc.). Regarding purple - we already have half red-half green circle, so what is the point of purple??GreyShark (dibra) 09:11, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- For some reason, we have blue as being Druze in the documentation, but it's mainly been used as an "other" before, or for whatever group people wanted to add such as Assyrians or Turkmen. Banak (talk) 19:09, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- GreyShark, there is no need for any confusion. Blue means a local unaffiliated tribe, such as the Druze, as opposed to Druze who support the government. This is the main reason why Suwayda is still marked red, because no one controls part of the city that is not aligned with the government. Hence it is red, even though it is Druze. If the Druze do rise up against the government, we will most likely use blue as the color to represent them, to differentiate them from the rebels. This is why it was listed as such in the description. Purple means a ceasefire/truce situation, such as Fuah/Kefraya and Zabadani; it is the same purple used in the Damascus map to indicate truce.
- With regards to whether the green-red icon should be used to indicate joint control, this would not work well in the Fuah/Kefraya area, as the rebels do not control any part of those towns. In Zabadani it might work, but as of right now, purple is the best way of indicating that the towns in question are not being fought over, even though they were. In my personal opinion, joint control means a lot more than just a truce or ceasefire agreement. In the case of Tell Abyad, the joint control indicates the fact that the local Arab rebels and Kurds jointly control the town as allies, though they have separate affiliations. I don't think this would convey the right message if used in Zabadani, for example. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 22:17, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Al Masdar
I am less and less attracted to this map. My last edit is probably several weeks ago old, maybe months. As long as we use Al Masdar as a direct source this map will not change, and will stay the same and outdated. Basically i just canot believe that we use a source which autor is Leith Fadel, banned 2 times from twitter for racism and fascism voice. He openly makes fun for civilians casulties, praises foreign forces in Syria (Iran/Hezbollah etc) calls for the extermination of 200k rebels in Syria, calls for killing civilians in Jisr Shugur, Qariatajn etc because they are traitors etc. Now to get back to Al Masdar. Basically, every article contains like 70% of fictinal content, which was just made up to fill in the gap, i know that because twitter users always make fun of him on twitter because he posts things which can't be theoretically true.
- The best last examples are :
- According to Al Masdar, the SAA has recaptured Jazal oilfield for 2 times already, actually they wrote 3 articles, in first they said "SAA repeld ISIS atacks on Jazal", next article is "SAA recaptured Jazal", next article is "SAA recaptured Jazal area after clashes with ISIS".
- The next example is Deir Ezor. ISIS, SOHR and rebel sources said that ISIS advanced around the airport and captured some areas including the missile battalion. While Al Masdar denied any ISIS advance and said that SAA is actually advancing. Their next article is actually even more weird, they wrote "SAA repeled ISIS attacks on the airport" which is contradictionary because now suddenly SAA is actually still inside the airport. To make this even worse, next Al Masdar article says that SAA recaptured the missile batalion, which is again contradictionary beacuse they said that SAA never lost it.
- Next example is Kanaker town south of Damascus. Al Masdar is convincing us that this town is under SAA control and always was, and now suddenly 3 years later they write an article where they say "At least 500 rebels surender in Kanaker" .... i mean.....
- In my opinion Al Masdar canot be used as a Direct source for edits, because their Syria articles are writen by Leith Fadel, and he basically has no idea what's happening in Syria, those who follow him on twitter know that. He was actually talking with Aris Rousinos on twitter (a guy from Vice news who was in Hasaka), and Leith Fadel was convincing him that his reports are fake and that everything what he said was a lye, YPG never captured those areas etc ... i mean ..
That's it from me, i don't really have time to argue about this. DuckZz (talk) 12:02, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- I think, Al Masdar never stated that SAA captured the missile batallion near Deir Ezor. There was an article ambigously stating that SAA controls "the base" which however referred to the Airbase, not the missile batallion [3].109.43.2.221 (talk) 14:27, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
No matter what you say, the source is up-to-date and fairly accurate. SOHR also has the problems you mentioned above. Deserttanker (talk) 16:41, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly, Leith is way more unbiased than the SOHR who simply cheats with deaths. Most of the points you mention are simple liar, also you are a moderate/non moderate beheader supporter duckzz.Totholio (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz why do you bather ? you already know this page is highly dominated with proregime editors . This is an obvious face super clear from the history of this talk page. you find 60-80% of the edititors writing about terrosirsts and SAA freeing areas ect. Helmy1453 (talk) 18:53, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- you should learn to write before claiming "proregime" editors. This map is better than most security analysis maps and big media outlets maps.Totholio (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
This is a very brutal, bloody conflict, where all of the sides hate each other and want to kill each other. They are willing to lie, exaggerate, inflate death tolls, and outright make up information to support their side and point-of-view. In my personal opinion, SOHR is pro-rebel, as it constantly accuses SAA of deliberately killing civilians (which I think it does) and Masdar is pro-government, because Leith Fadel constantly calls rebels 'terrorists dogs, pigs, rats', etc. and happily posts photos of dead rebel fighters.
The truth here is not: there is no truth. What is actually going on on the battlefield is very hard to find out given the reliability of the sources reporting it. Everyone is going to exaggerate to make their side look good. Pro-gov sources brag about airstrikes and dead terrorists, pro-rebel sources brag about TOW missiles destroying regime tanks, ISIS sources gloat about killing everyone, and Kurds, though the most reliable group, still often fail to report battlefield losses, with the exception of obvious cases like Kobani.
- "pro rebel" brag about hundreds of beheadings/executions, abu seqqar the cannibal is getting interviewed as "liberator of Idlib", and suicide bombings. I'm not sure why duckz is crying here, this map is much better than most of the professional ones. I'm not sure who he supports cause the "moderate opposition" only lives on paper, he has 0 credibility.Totholio (talk) 08:48, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
My point here is that we cannot use either SOHR or Masdar. Both are laced with bias but also rough truths sometimes. Few other sources report on the conflict as much as these 2 do, and if we decide we can't use 1, then we can't use the other either. Either we use both or neither: that is the only way the map will remain somewhat 'reliable'. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 22:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- We started using Al Masdar since April i think, and before that this map was perfectly up to date, no mistakes, no nonsense discussions, we used SOHR as a final source, and it was good. Al Masdar was listed as a source because few pro-regime trolls said that it's not fair to use SOHR only. So basically they didn't care about the map, their plan was to make this wikipedia page a battle between pro-rebel and pro-government editors, just like twitter. They are not doing edits, they just don't care and want this map to get biased and unreliable for the public, which is actually happening. DuckZz (talk) 23:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz, what things on the map do you think are incorrect or biased towards the regime? I would like to talk about them to make them map better. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 01:13, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz, if you really think that SOHR (also known as the one-man organization -Rami Abdurrahman-, yeah, told me about that mantra of the phantasmagoric "net of activists on the ground", yawn) is neutral and not staunchly pro-terrorist "opposition", you have a big, big comprehensive problem... And talking that until April there were no mistakes, no hard discussions, etc... is simply bullshit & lies, with more that 50 talk pages archived, dozens of editors blocked, 1 Revert-Rule included long ago, several other rules implemented several months ago, etc... But well, its so easy to see that you support one side of the conflict. I dont blame you for that, as most editors here (including me) are in a similar position, but the difference is that I dont have any problem on editing YPG or ISIS gains for example, and I dont misinterpretate or try to POV-push in favour of my politically-driven opinion...--HCPUNXKID 14:22, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz, That is what I told you. For every realiable real logical editor like Pbfreespace3 in this page there is ten lier pro-regime stupid nonheaded senselss crule undescribalbe creatures like .Totholio . One more thing SOHR is definitly Pro-rebel. That is unarguiable. but I guss it's acuaricy and reliability is unquesionable by all moderate/neutral editors in here. only hardcore Pro-Regime editors are questioning it. Helmy1453 (talk) 16:36, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
- Helmy1453 I actually think it is quite funny that some pro-government people think this map is biased towards rebels (SyrianObserver2015), while others think it is quite good and accurate (Totholio). Also, some pro-rebel people think this map is biased towards the government (DaJesuZ). People of different loyalties all see what they want in this map. I think it is pretty accurate as it is, and is becoming more of a professional-quality map every day. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- Pbfreespace3, I do not believe this map is biased towards either side, but am staunchly anti-government in this war. The map seems to be mostly accurate. The only issue I take with the Syrian Civil War page, and the maps and pictures on it, is the downloadable file, which has its frontlines going absolutely nuts, looking like they were drawn by a five year old with ADHD on meth.DaJesuZ (talk) 16:44, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- DaJesuZ I take it you mean File:Syrian_civil_war.png? Do you consider File:Syrian,_Iraqi,_and_Lebanese_insurgencies.png's Syria borders to be better or worse? How would you change the map? Banak (talk) 17:24, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Banak, I would smooth out the front lines on File:Syrian_civil_war.png, because, like I said, it looks like a kid with schizophrenia, who just drank a lot of coffee, drew them, especially in central Syria. This is purely an aesthetics thing, and because I'm on the Talk page, here, or the Cities and Towns page, this isn't a big issue, for me.DaJesuZ (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Russia now first outside country legally involved in Syrian War, first base established, China coming too.
Russia should now be shown on the map they have taken up positions on the front lines in Latakia province, and are actively engaged in ground and air operations against the Al Qaeda terrorists of Al Nusrat and the Al Qaeda terrorists of Army of Conquest/FSA. And also now in Eastern Aleppo on the battle to end the siege on Kurwas Military Airbase with massive reinforcements sent here with new equipment.
"Russian Marines and Iranian Revolutionary Guardsmen Build a Protectorate in Western Syria " [4]
" Russian Jets Strike ISIS in East Aleppo to Propel the Syrian Army’s Advance on Kuweires Airbase "[5]
" Chinese Military Personnel Expected to Arrive in Syria "[6]
Also the rebel terrorists are leaving Zabadani Tomorrow it will be completely free of Terror. "Islamist Rebels Begin Withdrawal from Al-Zabadani: First Transport Buses Arrive" [7] The Syrian Arab Army will control this and Mayada completely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.235.254 (talk) 19:10, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Care to inject some more bias? The Russian military being actively involved in the fighting would be a massive developement., as would China's. To make edits that show Russian and Chinese military units being involved in fighting, I think we're going to need more than a single site, who's best interests are in making the government look good. DaJesuZ (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
I'd rather hear from a non ISIS be-header supporter on this.