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:Zabadani will be evacuated complitely to Idlib, Madaya will be not,just the injured. 10 000 civilians(mostly under 18 and 50+) will be evacuated from Fuah/Kafraya in the coming weeks, both groups under the UN security which requires a lot of preparation.[[User:Totholio|Totholio]] ([[User talk:Totholio|talk]]) 18:52, 21 September 2015 (UTC) |
:Zabadani will be evacuated complitely to Idlib, Madaya will be not,just the injured. 10 000 civilians(mostly under 18 and 50+) will be evacuated from Fuah/Kafraya in the coming weeks, both groups under the UN security which requires a lot of preparation.[[User:Totholio|Totholio]] ([[User talk:Totholio|talk]]) 18:52, 21 September 2015 (UTC) |
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Learn how to type and speak english properly before you come here making terrorist demands, we have enough pro- isis/FSA/Al nusrat terrorist supporting editors on this map. One more could sink this rubber boat in the mediterian. |
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Revision as of 13:39, 23 September 2015
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Template:Syrian Civil War sanctions
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FSA and JAN captured Talat al Ziraa, Jubb al Ghar, Qabr Hashesh hill, Tallat Fares (Latakia)
- Suriyedenhaberler: Syrian Opposition captured Talat al Ziraa (Latakia). Islahhaber: The video that FSA/JAN killed 9 SAA/Assad soldiers in Jubb el-Ghar.
- FSA/JAN captured Jubb al Ghar (just right of Prophet Younis Peak) from SAA.
- FSA/JAN captured Qabr Hashesh hill and Tallat Fares near Nabi Ayoub Mount Peak in Akrad Mounts: 1 95.9.43.204 (talk) 08:10, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
- All of these sources appear, at least to me, to be pro-opposition sources, which prevents me from making the edits. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 01:00, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
All of these sources look very unreliable.Deserttanker (talk) 23:25, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Jayroud (Qalamun)
Al Masdar source showed this town under rebel control, and not under truce. I can't remember why we made this town under truce, most probably because Dumayr and Ruhayban are under truce. Usually we don't copy from maps but this is a speciall situation ? DuckZz (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
- I made the edit. If it's wrong, meh, I'll take the flak for it. The map is from al-Masdar, so I think an edit based on it is justified.DaJesuZ (talk) 16:18, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
We actually made these 3 towns under a truce last year because of someone's map, i think it was petolucem. So i think we can use this map to fix our mistake. DuckZz (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
- The map quoted is just a copy of ours and cannot be used. Some kind of truce must be operating because no fighting has been reported since a long time. To change the status we need fresh information, otherwise it stays as it is.Paolowalter (talk) 21:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
- Heck, the Masdar map even shows Wa'er in Homs as under truce, even though SOHR reports that there is daily government firing on it: http://www.syriahr.com/en/2015/09/continuous-clashes-in-the-eastern-countryside-of-homs-and-intense-aerial-bombardment-over-sahl-al-ghab/
- By the way, my personal opinion on map use is that we should be able to use maps as secondary sources to back up and further detail a reliable primary source, such as a Masdar or SOHR report. Especially in the case of maps made by al-Masdar. A legal justification for this use of maps is that the Masdar map specifically labelled towns and stated who controlled it based on an icon that the editor had to choose. That is why I made the recent edits near Homs with a Masdar map, because it clearly showed government losses versus how we had the map, and it was backed up by a neutral reliable source (SOHR) as well as an anti-gov source (@Nowresr twitter). In other cases with only a map, it is much more dubious, and therefore should not be used. But if a map is used to back up a primary source, then I personally believe that is OK. I think DuckZz, DaJesuZ, Alhanuty, Paolowalter, and Tradedia will agree with me on this.
- The Masdar map is based on ours, however there are big differences in some areas, for example East Homs, where the frontline was different from our map. What used to be a pro-gov source (Masdar), but is now considered reliable, reported ISIS was doing better than on our map, clearly showing several towns it controlled that we had not shown. That is why I made the edit, and it was also backed up by SOHR and other sources. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 21:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Well then change Hamar hill (previous talk page section) to rebel held because my source indicated something, and Al-Masdar shows the same thing, which can be used to back this up. DuckZz (talk) 22:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
ISIS editor map manipulation
Hello, I will give one warning to the isis editor who keeps changing government held towns to isis control in East Hama, where they have clearly been beaten back and had to pull men back to palmyra and Quaratyn because of there hundreds of losses. Also in Deir Ez Zoir SAA control Al Tabayah and the missle battalion and the area to the eas of the misslile battaion. I have sources showing all these towns are in Syrian Army control.
Heres whats going to happen: post a source for the 14 towns and villages that have been changed to isis in the last day.
Fix Deir Ez Zoir.
If the sources are not posted within 20 hours I will revert all the changes on the map, as there has been no disscusion and no mention of these 'captures' by any news source pro gov/pro opp/pro isis.
If the bias continues and the false claims are not fixed I will push for this maps deletion again. Because it is becoming a scum pit of isis and jihadi supporters misleading the people who view this map.
The article and map will be considered for deletion to the appropriate administrators, you have 20 hours Jihadi boys fix it or face a wave of Government supporting editors coming here to fix it, or face deletion, your choice day dreamers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyrianObserver2015 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 17 September 2015 (UTC) SyrianObserver2015 (talk) 23:52, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
- Make sure you don't run afoul of the 1RR. If edits are repeatedly made against consensus, remember that the 1RR isn't the only sanction. Banak (talk) 02:22, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- It's really funny that this pro-government moron keeps spouting off about how the government is doing oh so well, when even Bashar al-Assad himself commented on having to abandon areas the government deemed unimportant, and only uses pro-government sources to back up his claims. Pro-government sources will ALWAYS say the government is doing well in the war, regardless of whether they are or not, because it is in their, and the government's, best interests to NOT describe opposition gains.
- I'm getting pretty sick of this immense pro-gov bias constantly rearing its head; show something that someone who is NOT in favor of the government describing government gains, or shut up. Better yet, provide SOMETHING, since you didn't cite anything, at all.DaJesuZ (talk) 02:41, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
namecalling,threatening wikipedia editors,using pro-government sources,threatening to delete map,who are you to do all that.Alhanuty (talk) 04:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- Let's stick to the facts. Regarding the Deir Ez Zor Missile Battalion, almasdar stated on 2015-09-13 that the missile battalion is controlled by IS: [1] (click on it to see the full map). Is there any newer reliable source that states that SAA recaptured the Missile Battalion in the meantime? SyrianObserver2015: what are the reliable sources for your claims? 131.188.48.174 (talk) 12:06, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- al-Masdar reported the capture of the missile battalion, and has not reported anything else on the matter, and SOHR has made no mention of what's going on there, either. Provide something to back up the claim that the SAA is in control of the missile battalionDaJesuZ (talk) 18:38, 18 September 2015 (UTC).
I assume that SyrianObserver2015 is referring to me when he calls me a 'pro-ISIS editor. Let me respond. Firstly, I am not pro-ISIS in any way. I have not supported ISIS, and will not ever support ISIS. I am not jihadi, Sunni, or Muslim. I am not from the middle east. So stop with the name-calling and unprofessionalism.
Secondly, I provided a pro-government but reliable source, al-Masdar, for these changes: http://i3.minus.com/ibiiYtzDCBZ5Gh.jpg http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/complete-battle-map-of-syria-mid-september-update/ The source even explicitly mentions the towns in question by labelling them and marking them as ISIS-controlled. Here is another source mentioning the clashes taking place near these towns: syriahr.com/en/2015/09/continuous-clashes-in-the-eastern-countryside-of-homs-and-intense-aerial-bombardment-over-sahl-al-ghab/ So the edit is justified, since a reliable source, which is also in my opinion pro-government, stated that ISIS controlled that region. In addition, this is backed up by other reliable sources, and pro-ISIS sources.
Thirdly, show us one shred of evidence SAA controls the Missile Battalion. You say "I have sources showing all these towns are in Syrian Army control." Can you post these sources please? We'd like to see them. Masdar itself reported that SAA didn't, as ISIS was said to be launching recent attacks from there. Masdar would have definitely reported this on the front page if SAA retook the Missile Battalion.
Finally, you need to stop with the biased and partisan attacks. Calling the editors of the map 'jihadi fanboys' doesn't do anything to improve your standing in the community, and neither does calling the map a scum pit or making threats to shut down the map if we don't do exactly as you say and make the edits you want. If you want pro-gov maps, I suggest you try Peto Lucem and Amin Akh.
No. We are going to follow the rules, use reliable sources, and make edits that are true to the actual situation on the ground, which as of the time of this post is as follows: ISIS in control of Missile Battalion, Jazal under SAA, East Homs villages in question under ISIS, but vicinity contested. This isn't hard. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 23:08, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
FSA/JAN liberated Deir al-Zaghb (SW of Al Foah, Idlib); Next Foah?
- Syria News (18.09.2015): Deyr Zughb is fallen
- https://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2015/09/19/syria-idlib-rif-jaf-breakthrough-the-first-defense-lines-of-al-foah/ Yallasouriya (19.09.2015) JAF breakthrough the first defense lines of al Foah]85.110.70.112 (talk) 11:14, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- According to reliable sources, FSA/JAN just captured several military checkpoints in the southern outskirts of Fu'ah [2]. FSA/JAN attacks on Deir al-Zaghb and from al-Suwaghiyah have reportedly been repelled. 84.138.69.94 (talk) 12:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I wonder how a saudi/uighur/chechen/turkmen al qaeda beheader group will liberate anything in Syria from syrians. "reliable sources" The attack after 7 suicide bombers got repelled according to every source on ground. LOL Totholio (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- What you mention as "Saudi/Uighur/Chechen/Turkmen al Qaeda beheader group" are ALL SUNNI people just like the GIANT MAJORITY Syrian people (80% of Syrian population), whereas what you refer as syrians are "Irani/HezboSheytan/Alawite group" and SMALL MINORITY (10% of Syrian population) that administered Syria DICTATORSHIPLY till now (remaining 10% is Christian). Clear? That's why, LIBERATION. 88.224.145.69 (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Could someone ban this guy already? you braindead half of the syrian army is sunni,80% lives in government controlled areas, the first lady and half of the government is sunni, so you believe a 10% minority is at war with the 90% for 5 years and still standing? congratulation. Your sources are only pro beheader like markito :DDDD there will be a ceasefire in the 2 shia cities and Madaya/Zabadani for 2 days, it just started right now. Totholio (talk) 09:47, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- In addition to checkpoints to the south of Fu'ah, Tell al-Kirbeh has now been taken by rebels as well. [3] 84.138.69.94 (talk) 19:51, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
If you want to fight, go to Syria and fight with machine guns or whatever your weapon of choice is. Until, then, stop with the attacks here, as we don't need them and it isn't useful. Syria should be partitioned between the Sunni Arab parts and everything else (Shia, Christian, etc.) That is the only way the long-term conflict will stop. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 20:33, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Foah
Foah is under intense fire. Hence, must be shown as contested.78.168.154.94 (talk) 09:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Nothing will be contested specially not after saudi/uighur/turkmen suicide bombers tried to infiltrate the 2 cities and did nothing. Like this "syrian" "rebel" xD https://twitter.com/DR_SHAHID/status/645246839428546560/photo/1
Ceasefire in 4 cities http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-ceasefire-brokered-in-al-zabadanimadaya-and-al-fouaakafraya/ http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-ceasefire-agreed-for-3-syria-battlegrounds-monitor-2015-9?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29 (SOHR) Totholio (talk) 09:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Please do not link to photos of dead people here. Such photos give no new information but may disturb readers. Nobody doubts that people are dying in Syria, there is no reason to link to such photos, or make fun of their death, be it "rebel", "regime" or IS corpses. But it is true, there is a ceasefire until Monday. Supposedly, rebels will be allowed to remove wounded fighters from Zabadiya, Madaya while the government will be allowed to send humanitarian aid to Fu'ah, Kafraya. 84.138.69.94 (talk) 10:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- FSA/JAN liberated "NE entrance of Foah". 78.168.154.94 (talk) 11:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
You know their an Obama/mc Cain puppet when they use the word "regime" all aboard the zionist bus, to visit Al bagdadi leader of the FSA/AlNusrat/ISIS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyrianObserver2015 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Both your language and sources are unacceptably biased towards officially designated terrorist groups. Deserttanker (talk) 20:30, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
I am shocked from the language used here in this discussion. Is there is no limit to agresive language here ? I thought it had been agreed long long time ago to use terms like rebels/Regime no matter what is your political stand. Also this is not a political forum or the place to discuss if the regime is a minority or rebels are terorists. It is useless and exhaustive and I sugest any one with such mentality is more aload on this page than a help and should just go write on his facebook page whatever he loves Helmy1453 (talk) 13:47, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Map size/fixes
I'm mostly referring to the user Pbfreespace3 . Why are you doing this if I may ask ? What's the point ? I can barely see 40% of the villages you have edited, they are to small, and again what is the point if for example we have 2 villages, one is larger than the other in reality. Previously they had a size of lets say 6 and 5, and you change them to 5 and 4, what's the point, the result is the same but now they're barely visible. You only edited 40% of the map, and some towns are actually marked 3 times smaller than some tiny village. You have to understand that this is not googlemaps, neither wikimapia, this is wikipedia and you can't basically copy/paste their way of editing. This map needs to be visible and big, i mean just look at the Yemen/Lebanon map, look at their sizes. I would ask you to change the size of every village, just add 1 size more, and it will be visible, because know it looks really bad. DuckZz (talk) 22:55, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
My opinion; he´s doing a good job and to me the map appears more realistic. I myself would not "waste" time on this, but it´s not my time. So if Pbfreespace3 wants to put time in it, let him(?) do it. Rhocagil (talk) 23:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Some time ago, several users complained about the map being too cluttered, but the general consensus of the page editors was that the villages should stay, but be reduced in size, to eliminate map clutter, and still give a more accurate representation of where the front line is.Personally, I like this way of doing things; it makes sure that all known towns are still shown, and who controls all of them.DaJesuZ (talk) 13:13, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Let it also be known that I just reverted an obvious point-of-view vandalism edit from SyrianObserver2015, who has pro-government bias in all of his editings and statements. He made many rebel and ISIS-held towns impossible to see by decreasing their sizes drastically, as well as blatantly changing various towns to government control with no sources whatsoever. Even al-Masdar news reports some of these towns are not gov-controlled. He has accused me of being "pro-ISIS scum" and a "jihadi fanboy", which I am not. I have urged him to stop his biased vandalism, although I doubt he will do so. Please be on the lookout for other biased vandalism from him, so you may remove it. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 17:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Indeed I can barely see some places now. Deserttanker (talk) 20:33, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Zabadi and Fuah seacfire
I want to know what is the ruling for purple color (trice) zones. As Zabadi and Midea are marked purple but Fuah and Kufriah stayed red ? where it is the same seacfire ? Is there a eason for this contrast or it is just a mistake ? Helmy1453 (talk) 13:56, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- This is done because whilst Zabadani is contested, Fu'ah and Kafraya are both held firmly by the regime. The truce symbol is only necessary for locations which are divided between two factions to show that there are no clashes there.Prohibited Area (talk) 15:03, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Zabadani will be evacuated complitely to Idlib, Madaya will be not,just the injured. 10 000 civilians(mostly under 18 and 50+) will be evacuated from Fuah/Kafraya in the coming weeks, both groups under the UN security which requires a lot of preparation.Totholio (talk) 18:52, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Learn how to type and speak english properly before you come here making terrorist demands, we have enough pro- isis/FSA/Al nusrat terrorist supporting editors on this map. One more could sink this rubber boat in the mediterian.
Label
(Location dot blue.svg Druze)
(Location dot blue.svg Local tribe-held) >"old version"
"Al-Asharah"
The change in the label has created a blunder, Al-Asharah has nothing to do with Druze (to my knowledge). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8A0:7F30:A501:B5AA:5B0F:2FD9:355F (talk) 15:09, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
HCPUNXKID AlAboud83 this is your mess, clean it up. Rhocagil (talk) 15:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Druze are officially represented by Blue,choose another color for Shaitat,choose brown.Alhanuty (talk) 18:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Done Cleaned up. Still waiting for ACTUAL RELIABLE SOURCES stating a shared control of Suwayda by SAA-NDF, etc... in one side and independent Druze militias, groups, etc... in the other. Maintaining it on the basis of a single source about events that happened on September 4-5 (and according to all sources, since that date ALL Suwayda city and governorate -except an ISIS-held zone at the northeast- is government-held), is at least suspicious. Let's be serious, if Druze militiamen would have confronted SAA-NDF and gained territory, we would have a few reports, photos, videos, interviews, etc... of that. Look at the examples of Hasakah or Qamishli. This is not the case. So please leave aside the phobias & philias and try to make a credible map...--HCPUNXKID 22:33, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
HCPUNXKID is was relating you to that Al-Asharah still is marked contested blue-black. Rhocagil (talk) 21:37, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Blue and purple dots
Guys, the blue and purple dots are totally confusing. It seems some editors are using those with no coordination whatsover, resulting in a complete confusion on the map. The purple looks like a new force in the war, while the blue seems redundant (1 dot??). We should decide what is the exact usage of blue prior to implementing it (Druze, unaffiliated, etc.). Regarding purple - we already have half red-half green circle, so what is the point of purple??GreyShark (dibra) 09:11, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- For some reason, we have blue as being Druze in the documentation, but it's mainly been used as an "other" before, or for whatever group people wanted to add such as Assyrians or Turkmen. Banak (talk) 19:09, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Al Masdar
I am less and less attracted to this map. My last edit is probably several weeks ago old, maybe months. As long as we use Al Masdar as a direct source this map will not change, and will stay the same and outdated. Basically i just canot believe that we use a source which autor is Leith Fadel, banned 2 times from twitter for racism and fascism voice. He openly makes fun for civilians casulties, praises foreign forces in Syria (Iran/Hezbollah etc) calls for the extermination of 200k rebels in Syria, calls for killing civilians in Jisr Shugur, Qariatajn etc because they are traitors etc. Now to get back to Al Masdar. Basically, every article contains like 70% of fictinal content, which was just made up to fill in the gap, i know that because twitter users always make fun of him on twitter because he posts things which can't be theoretically true.
- The best last examples are :
- According to Al Masdar, the SAA has recaptured Jazal oilfield for 2 times already, actually they wrote 3 articles, in first they said "SAA repeld ISIS atacks on Jazal", next article is "SAA recaptured Jazal", next article is "SAA recaptured Jazal area after clashes with ISIS".
- The next example is Deir Ezor. ISIS, SOHR and rebel sources said that ISIS advanced around the airport and captured some areas including the missile battalion. While Al Masdar denied any ISIS advance and said that SAA is actually advancing. Their next article is actually even more weird, they wrote "SAA repeled ISIS attacks on the airport" which is contradictionary because now suddenly SAA is actually still inside the airport. To make this even worse, next Al Masdar article says that SAA recaptured the missile batalion, which is again contradictionary beacuse they said that SAA never lost it.
- Next example is Kanaker town south of Damascus. Al Masdar is convincing us that this town is under SAA control and always was, and now suddenly 3 years later they write an article where they say "At least 500 rebels surender in Kanaker" .... i mean.....
- In my opinion Al Masdar canot be used as a Direct source for edits, because their Syria articles are writen by Leith Fadel, and he basically has no idea what's happening in Syria, those who follow him on twitter know that. He was actually talking with Aris Rousinos on twitter (a guy from Vice news who was in Hasaka), and Leith Fadel was convincing him that his reports are fake and that everything what he said was a lye, YPG never captured those areas etc ... i mean ..
That's it from me, i don't really have time to argue about this. DuckZz (talk) 12:02, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- I think, Al Masdar never stated that SAA captured the missile batallion near Deir Ezor. There was an article ambigously stating that SAA controls "the base" which however referred to the Airbase, not the missile batallion [4].109.43.2.221 (talk) 14:27, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
No matter what you say, the source is up-to-date and fairly accurate. SOHR also has the problems you mentioned above. Deserttanker (talk) 16:41, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly, Leith is way more unbiased than the SOHR who simply cheats with deaths. Most of the points you mention are simple liar, also you are a moderate/non moderate beheader supporter duckzz.Totholio (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz why do you bather ? you already know this page is highly dominated with proregime editors . This is an obvious face super clear from the history of this talk page. you find 60-80% of the edititors writing about terrosirsts and SAA freeing areas ect. Helmy1453 (talk) 18:53, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- you should learn to write before claiming "proregime" editors. This map is better than most security analysis maps and big media outlets maps.Totholio (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
This is a very brutal, bloody conflict, where all of the sides hate each other and want to kill each other. They are willing to lie, exaggerate, inflate death tolls, and outright make up information to support their side and point-of-view. In my personal opinion, SOHR is pro-rebel, as it constantly accuses SAA of deliberately killing civilians (which I think it does) and Masdar is pro-government, because Leith Fadel constantly calls rebels 'terrorists dogs, pigs, rats', etc. and happily posts photos of dead rebel fighters.
The truth here is not: there is no truth. What is actually going on on the battlefield is very hard to find out given the reliability of the sources reporting it. Everyone is going to exaggerate to make their side look good. Pro-gov sources brag about airstrikes and dead terrorists, pro-rebel sources brag about TOW missiles destroying regime tanks, ISIS sources gloat about killing everyone, and Kurds, though the most reliable group, still often fail to report battlefield losses, with the exception of obvious cases like Kobani.
My point here is that we cannot use either SOHR or Masdar. Both are laced with bias but also rough truths sometimes. Few other sources report on the conflict as much as these 2 do, and if we decide we can't use 1, then we can't use the other either. Either we use both or neither: that is the only way the map will remain somewhat 'reliable'. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 22:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- We started using Al Masdar since April i think, and before that this map was perfectly up to date, no mistakes, no nonsense discussions, we used SOHR as a final source, and it was good. Al Masdar was listed as a source because few pro-regime trolls said that it's not fair to use SOHR only. So basically they didn't care about the map, their plan was to make this wikipedia page a battle between pro-rebel and pro-government editors, just like twitter. They are not doing edits, they just don't care and want this map to get biased and unreliable for the public, which is actually happening. DuckZz (talk) 23:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
DuckZz, what things on the map do you think are incorrect or biased towards the regime? I would like to talk about them to make them map better. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 01:13, 23 September 2015 (UTC)