Line 85: | Line 85: | ||
Whoever composed the section which described "psychological warfare" and attributed certain claims to Brian Glick's book appears to have wildly embellished what it actually says. A preview reveals [http://books.google.com/books?id=M4uvwy_C3egC&pg=PA45&dq=brian+glick+war+at+home+psychological+warfare&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yL-QT_vmJomUiQK7mrT3Ag&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false war at home by brian glick] it never said anything about family, friends, landlords etc being "strong armed" but that they were presented false media articles about people. Why do editors make this stuff up, is it that hard to translate simple English? As it stands I think this could even be called a fringe position that this amounts to "psychological warfare" and maybe it shouldn't be in that section or the lede either. There are prolific sources which describe COINTELPRO tactics, is Glick the only one who calls this psychological warfare? "Dirty tricks" is not psychological warfare to my knowledge.[[User:Batvette|Batvette]] ([[User talk:Batvette|talk]]) 02:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
Whoever composed the section which described "psychological warfare" and attributed certain claims to Brian Glick's book appears to have wildly embellished what it actually says. A preview reveals [http://books.google.com/books?id=M4uvwy_C3egC&pg=PA45&dq=brian+glick+war+at+home+psychological+warfare&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yL-QT_vmJomUiQK7mrT3Ag&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false war at home by brian glick] it never said anything about family, friends, landlords etc being "strong armed" but that they were presented false media articles about people. Why do editors make this stuff up, is it that hard to translate simple English? As it stands I think this could even be called a fringe position that this amounts to "psychological warfare" and maybe it shouldn't be in that section or the lede either. There are prolific sources which describe COINTELPRO tactics, is Glick the only one who calls this psychological warfare? "Dirty tricks" is not psychological warfare to my knowledge.[[User:Batvette|Batvette]] ([[User talk:Batvette|talk]]) 02:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
||
:Glick's use of the term "psychological warfare" seems appropriate to me. Of course there are no FBI memos saying, "Now we are going to engage in psychological warfare," but all critics of FBI tactics during COINTELPRO agree that psychological warfare was involved. As far as the article's use of the term "strong armed" to describe tactics that Glick details, I suppose that is a matter of interpretation. In my opinion "strong armed" certainly applies--due to my involvement in Berkeley's anti-Vietnam War movement during the mid 1960s, my father was "strong-armed" by the FBI to get him to discourage my participation. Unless he agreed to co-opperate, the FBI threatened to yank his security clearance, which would have made it impossible for him to continue his career at Lawrence Radiation Laboratories. He pretended to go along, and shortly my parents decided to move to Chicago where he could continue his career at Argonne National Laboratories in a less hostile environment. Again, to me "strong armed" seems quite an apt description, and I'm not sure why you object to this term. But we don't have to rely on personal stories such as my own, since to do so would constitute original research. Glick details a number of tactics and examples that could also be described as "strong arming." Or perhaps you don't think physical threats count, even when people's lives are threatened. In fact we know that the FBI's COINTELPRO tactics resulted quite directly in fatal clashes between the Black Panthers and the U.S. Organization. I think "psychological warfare" and "strong armed" should remain. [[User:Apostle12|Apostle12]] ([[User talk:Apostle12|talk]]) 04:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:52, 23 April 2012
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||
Academic standards, please.
- Citing a PBS webpage (basically, an editorial) is emphatically not up to academic standards for an assertion as strong as "assassination."
- Assertions of terrorism are no go as well.. that's an editorial stance, plus the use of the words "terrorist" and "terrorism" is verboten in Wikipedia (unless referring to the US, apparently). Ling.Nut (talk) 08:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- Um, what? Where are you getting the idea that terrorism is a "forbidden word?" Beeblebrox (talk) 21:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- I don't personally use the word "terrorism" (too imprecise), however I see plenty of references to "anti-terrorism" on Wikipedia, which would seem to indicate that "terrorism" shouldn't be off limits. Please explain: are you one of those editors who just make up rules and state them in an officious way hoping to hold sway with other editors?Apostle12 (talk) 06:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- Please see the fever swamp that is Wikipedia:Words to avoid. Using "terrorist" or "terrorism" or whatever with respect to any individual or organization has been strictly nixed by folks who support the IRA and similar organizations. What's good for the goose is good for the gander: you can't use it with respect for US organizations, either. Cheers Ling.Nut (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- Well, I see what you are talking about, but it's not that it's totally forbidden, WP:TERRORIST says "If a reliable source describes a person or group using one of these words, then the description must be attributed in the article text to its source, preferably by direct quotation, and always with a verifiable citation. If the term is used with a clear meaning by multiple reliable independent sources, then citations to several such sources should be provided in the sentence where it appears." so the issue is one of being absolutely certain that a reliable source described them in this manner. Al-Queda has an example of this, of course they've been called terrorists by lots and lots of sources, probably not the case here... Beeblebrox (talk) 16:43, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- Please see the fever swamp that is Wikipedia:Words to avoid. Using "terrorist" or "terrorism" or whatever with respect to any individual or organization has been strictly nixed by folks who support the IRA and similar organizations. What's good for the goose is good for the gander: you can't use it with respect for US organizations, either. Cheers Ling.Nut (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
FBI COINTELPRO
In the 1960's, when COINTELPRO was active, Malcolm X was assassinated. The alleged perpetrators of this were thought of as related to the FBI as agentes provocteteures. Why is there no discussion of this topic, though it appears germane, and the "target", was well within the scope that is documented the COINTELPRO's range? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.30.160 (talk) 03:20, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
deletion of edit
I am a lawyer. I tried to cite legal encyclopedia Corpus Juris Secundum. My edit was deleted within seconds.137.148.217.216 (talk) 14:48, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Political assassinations
This article suggests that the FBI conducted political assassinations. If this is true, why is not one example of such an assassination provided? 69.133.126.117 (talk) 23:25, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
- Please refer to the following section of "Methods" and its associated sources, especially those having to do with the assassination of Fred Hampton:
- Extralegal Force and Violence: The FBI conspired with local police departments to threaten dissidents; to conduct illegal break-ins in order to search dissident homes; and to commit vandalism, assaults, beatings and assassinations.[18][19][20]
- The FBI specifically developed tactics intended to heighten tension and hostility between various factions the black militancy movement, for example between the Black Panthers, the United Slaves and the Blackstone Rangers. This resulted in numerous deaths, among which were the United Slave assassinations of San Diego Black Panther Party members Jim Huggins, Bunchy Carter and Sylvester Bell.[18]
- The FBI also conspired with the police departments of many U.S. cities (San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Philadelphia, Chicago) to encourage repeated raids on Black Panther homes—often with little or no evidence of violations of federal, state, or local laws—which resulted directly in the police killing of many members of the Black Panther Party, most famously the assassination of Chicago Black Panther Party Chairman Fred Hampton on December 4, 1969.[18][19][20]
- See, especially, Special Agent Swearigan's testimony, as well as the supporting statements in the Church Report--"D. Cooperation Between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Local Police Departments in Disrupting the Black Panther Party"
- Some of this sounds like original research, or at least a shifting of weight towards a minority POV. Whatever our personal interpretations, I don't believe most mainstream sources describe these events as political assassinations, nor do they list political assassinations as one of the purposes of cointelpro. ClovisPt (talk) 20:02, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- I believe the article stays on point by confirming that the purpose of Cointelpro was to protect national security, prevent violence, and maintain the existing social and political order through infiltration, disruption, marginalization, and subversion of the targeted groups. That the FBI used violent means to accomplish this purpose, including provoking violence among rival Black Nationalist groups, is beyond question--the official U.S. Congressional Church Report details exactly how the FBI went about these provocations and the deaths that occurred as a direct result. Special Agent Swearigan's testimony makes it clear that the FBI's intent was to terrorize Black Nationalist groups by partnering with local law enforcement to conduct deadly raids that resulted in several assassinations, including that of Fred Hampton. These facts are supported by mainstream sources, and they are widely accepted. Apostle12 (talk) 06:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- This is not OR -- many reliable sources refer to these as political assassinations, especially Fred Hampton. In fact, I know of very few reliable sources that don't call Fred Hampton's murder (a pre-planned murder, set up by the FBI once he was nominated as national spokesman for the BPP) an "assassination". -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 19:30, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, lost the "a": 3 or 4 students from Ron Karenga's black nationalist group US shot Bunchy Carter and another Panther. There are rumors (statement by Panther renegate Earl Anthony), that the LAPD or FBI helped the gunmen get away from the scene.--Radh (talk) 19:34, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence on this page yet to suggest that any of these individuals were murdered directly on the orders of the FBI. If there is hard evidence, I suggest we provide it. If not, I suggest we remove the word "assassinations" from the page, or at least say that they have been ACCUSED of orchestrating assassinations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.90.26 (talk) 22:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
COINTELPRO Records
I have acquired and posted FBI records pertaining to the COINTELPRO operations directed at Violence Prone Yugoslav Emigres in U.S. http://historyanarchy.blogspot.com/2010/08/newly-declassified-cointelpro-files.html I tried to add them but the link got nuked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Historypunk (talk • contribs) 03:43, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Puerto Rico
I have to ask...why in the beginning is the independence for Puerto Rico in quotes ("")? Wikipedia is supposed to be unbiased. The fact that it is in quotes, supposes somebody's personal and subjective belief that puertorricans have no sound, legal claim for independence. The quotes imply that "independence for Puerto Rico" is a concept invented by a group. The UN has repeatedly spoken against US colonialism in Puerto Rico, and in favor of our claim for independence (as a distinct nation that was invaded and robbed as a geopolitical experiment in the Caribbean). I won't change it, but I ask here that the quotes be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.23.202.38 (talk) 00:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
US vs. United Slaves
While it is technically correct to refer to the US Organization by its formal name, much of the literature (both official and academic) refers to the US Organization as "the United Slaves." Perhaps we should mention this fact, since it did become common usage. Apostle12 (talk) 22:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Einstein
Albert Einstein is listed as a target of CoIntelPro. Einstein died in 1955, and the article states that the CoIntelPro program began the next year, in 1956.
Can someone elaborate?
Aoss (talk) 08:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
- They were trying to disprove parts of his Theory of Relativity and travel back in time to harass him? Who knows? 69.42.13.45 (talk) 04:24, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Good article
Well done to those who have contributed to this page. This is a very well sourced article with great presentation.--217.35.82.108 (talk) 19:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Methods: Fabricated Content
Whoever composed the section which described "psychological warfare" and attributed certain claims to Brian Glick's book appears to have wildly embellished what it actually says. A preview reveals war at home by brian glick it never said anything about family, friends, landlords etc being "strong armed" but that they were presented false media articles about people. Why do editors make this stuff up, is it that hard to translate simple English? As it stands I think this could even be called a fringe position that this amounts to "psychological warfare" and maybe it shouldn't be in that section or the lede either. There are prolific sources which describe COINTELPRO tactics, is Glick the only one who calls this psychological warfare? "Dirty tricks" is not psychological warfare to my knowledge.Batvette (talk) 02:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
- Glick's use of the term "psychological warfare" seems appropriate to me. Of course there are no FBI memos saying, "Now we are going to engage in psychological warfare," but all critics of FBI tactics during COINTELPRO agree that psychological warfare was involved. As far as the article's use of the term "strong armed" to describe tactics that Glick details, I suppose that is a matter of interpretation. In my opinion "strong armed" certainly applies--due to my involvement in Berkeley's anti-Vietnam War movement during the mid 1960s, my father was "strong-armed" by the FBI to get him to discourage my participation. Unless he agreed to co-opperate, the FBI threatened to yank his security clearance, which would have made it impossible for him to continue his career at Lawrence Radiation Laboratories. He pretended to go along, and shortly my parents decided to move to Chicago where he could continue his career at Argonne National Laboratories in a less hostile environment. Again, to me "strong armed" seems quite an apt description, and I'm not sure why you object to this term. But we don't have to rely on personal stories such as my own, since to do so would constitute original research. Glick details a number of tactics and examples that could also be described as "strong arming." Or perhaps you don't think physical threats count, even when people's lives are threatened. In fact we know that the FBI's COINTELPRO tactics resulted quite directly in fatal clashes between the Black Panthers and the U.S. Organization. I think "psychological warfare" and "strong armed" should remain. Apostle12 (talk) 04:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)