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::::: What's dishonest is trying to insert it into the article. Blue Lives Matter is not connected to any of the stats or statements by McClatchey. It's lower than pointing out your off-topic answers. How is Blue Lives Matter related to the statement you are trying to insert. --[[User:DHeyward|DHeyward]] ([[User talk:DHeyward|talk]]) 03:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
::::: What's dishonest is trying to insert it into the article. Blue Lives Matter is not connected to any of the stats or statements by McClatchey. It's lower than pointing out your off-topic answers. How is Blue Lives Matter related to the statement you are trying to insert. --[[User:DHeyward|DHeyward]] ([[User talk:DHeyward|talk]]) 03:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:Eh, seems kind of trivial. Especially since the rest of the article does not mention anything about extremest, and that is not the way most officers are killed. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 02:30, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
:Eh, seems kind of trivial. Especially since the rest of the article does not mention anything about extremest, and that is not the way most officers are killed. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 02:30, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:: Removed text: |
:: <s>Removed text: |
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::{{talkquote|Since 1990 the majority of police officers killed by extremist groups, 51 deaths, have been killed by white supremacists and far-right organizations.}} |
::{{talkquote|Since 1990 the majority of police officers killed by extremist groups, 51 deaths, have been killed by white supremacists and far-right organizations.}} |
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:: What the source says: |
:: What the source says: |
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::{{talkquote|White supremacist and other far-right extremist groups have killed 51 police officers since 1990, '''according to a report published by the Anti-Defamation League'''}} |
::{{talkquote|White supremacist and other far-right extremist groups have killed 51 police officers since 1990, '''according to a report published by the Anti-Defamation League'''}} |
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:: The source for the data is ADL [[WP:CIR|not the "FBI"]]. Absolutely no way can we include it unattributed and as others have pointed out there's reason not to include it at all. [[Special:Contributions/64.34.216.104|64.34.216.104]] ([[User talk:64.34.216.104|talk]]) 02:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
:: The source for the data is ADL [[WP:CIR|not the "FBI"]]. Absolutely no way can we include it unattributed and as others have pointed out there's reason not to include it at all. [[Special:Contributions/64.34.216.104|64.34.216.104]] ([[User talk:64.34.216.104|talk]]) 02:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</s> |
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::::Well, you're right. The FBI data is for the number of police officers killed. And that's all the conversation I'm gonna have with someone hiding between multiple proxy servers.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek|talk]]) 03:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
::::Well, you're right. The FBI data is for the number of police officers killed. And that's all the conversation I'm gonna have with someone hiding between multiple proxy servers.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek|talk]]) 03:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
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::: Hmmm, an anon IP quoting obscure Wikipedia essays. Right. That's like the second time in the last two days someone has thrown CIR at me.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek|talk]]) 03:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
::: Hmmm, an anon IP quoting obscure Wikipedia essays. Right. That's like the second time in the last two days someone has thrown CIR at me.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek|talk]]) 03:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC) |
Revision as of 07:02, 26 January 2018
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Move to draft space
Hello Todorovichdan and David todorovich,
I have noticed that you started this page and in its current state it is not exactly right for publication at this time. I was wondering if it would be alright if I moved it to our draft space where you can work on it with less risk of it being deleted. Would that be alright? --Stabila711 (talk) 07:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Other significant viewpoints
Hey, I saw the banner saying the article may be missing other significant viewpoints. I included a criticism section to try to fix that. It's not particularly good, but I can imagine others can build on it. Pauliexcluded (talk) 22:25, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Criticism
The law may have been "heavily criticized because hate crime typically refer to crimes committed against people for their membership in a certain social group such as race, sexual orientation, or gender identity", but such a claim should be qualified (and in any case is very subjective). Only some people may have criticized the law on such grounds. This reason for "heavy" criticism is odd, since to be a policeman is to be a member of a social cohort, just as being of a particular gender identity or religion is. I suggest that the wording should be removed, or changed to "criticized by some people who claim that hate crime should be limited to crimes committed against people for their race, sexual orientation, or gender identity".Royalcourtier (talk) 20:51, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
- The Flat Earth theory is only "criticized by some people who claim that the earth is round". Should we add a silly disclaimer to that article as well? — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:17, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
McClatchy
The McClatchy source is fine, IP edit warring to keep it out is being silly. All agreed? BullRangifer, Volunteer Marek. PeterTheFourth (talk) 02:15, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, and the source for the data is FBI.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:24, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, the sentences regarding police killed by extremist groups have no connection to Blue Lives Matter. Blue Lives Matter is not mentioned in the piece[1]. Blue Lives Matter opposes all deaths and injuries to law enforcement including white nationalists, black nationalists, terrorists, wife beaters, car accidents, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers. It's WP:SYNTH vio to create a connection of Blue Lives Matter to DoJ designations of cop killers using a source that makes no such connection by an organization that doesn't claim racism is a core component of police deaths. --DHeyward (talk) 02:27, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- That must be why the second sentence of the lede says, quote, "Blue Lives Matter was formed in reaction to the Black Lives Matter movement".Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- And also, DHeyward (nice of you to show up here all of sudden), the relevant text doesn't say anything about whom Blue Lives Matter opposes or whom it doesn't oppose. You're drawing some inferences from your own head that are not in the actual text. That's your business, but please keep it out of Wikipedia articles.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- You are making the connection that McClatchy's piece is relevant to Blue Lives Matter organization when McClatchy has made no such claims. You think it's relevant with no sources making the connection. That's SYNTHESIS you created for whatever internal bias you are carrying. Without a connecting source, this tidbit is irrelevant to this article. Do you also think Black Lives Matter should be held responsible for the deaths that started Blue Lives Matter? (Hint: the answer is no) --DHeyward (talk) 03:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- "Do you also think Black Lives Matter should be held responsible for the deaths that started Blue Lives Matter?" - that's a nice "have you stopped beating your wife" sentence you made up there DHeyward. Come on, pulling tricks like that is low. Did I say that BlLM was responsible for BLM deaths or something? No. Does the text say anything of the kind? No. So please drop the "also" or better yet the whole damn dishonest question.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- What's dishonest is trying to insert it into the article. Blue Lives Matter is not connected to any of the stats or statements by McClatchey. It's lower than pointing out your off-topic answers. How is Blue Lives Matter related to the statement you are trying to insert. --DHeyward (talk) 03:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- "Do you also think Black Lives Matter should be held responsible for the deaths that started Blue Lives Matter?" - that's a nice "have you stopped beating your wife" sentence you made up there DHeyward. Come on, pulling tricks like that is low. Did I say that BlLM was responsible for BLM deaths or something? No. Does the text say anything of the kind? No. So please drop the "also" or better yet the whole damn dishonest question.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- You are making the connection that McClatchy's piece is relevant to Blue Lives Matter organization when McClatchy has made no such claims. You think it's relevant with no sources making the connection. That's SYNTHESIS you created for whatever internal bias you are carrying. Without a connecting source, this tidbit is irrelevant to this article. Do you also think Black Lives Matter should be held responsible for the deaths that started Blue Lives Matter? (Hint: the answer is no) --DHeyward (talk) 03:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Eh, seems kind of trivial. Especially since the rest of the article does not mention anything about extremest, and that is not the way most officers are killed. PackMecEng (talk) 02:30, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Removed text:Since 1990 the majority of police officers killed by extremist groups, 51 deaths, have been killed by white supremacists and far-right organizations.
- What the source says:
White supremacist and other far-right extremist groups have killed 51 police officers since 1990, according to a report published by the Anti-Defamation League
The source for the data is ADL not the "FBI". Absolutely no way can we include it unattributed and as others have pointed out there's reason not to include it at all. 64.34.216.104 (talk) 02:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)- Well, you're right. The FBI data is for the number of police officers killed. And that's all the conversation I'm gonna have with someone hiding between multiple proxy servers.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Hmmm, an anon IP quoting obscure Wikipedia essays. Right. That's like the second time in the last two days someone has thrown CIR at me.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, and by the way, using proxies to edit Wikipedia is against policy, nevermind using proxies to edit war.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- It also makes no connection that Blue Lives Matter consider deaths by any extremists as significant. Nor does it call out the race of cop killers or the race of cops killed. Race is not a component of this organization or its aims. It's "police" vs. "people who kill police." The source doesn't connect this group to the point it is making. The article is very relevant to Black Lives Matter which are concerned that mainstream members will be labeled extremists. But it's not Blue Lives Matter that is making the argument for or against those labels. They don't care. --DHeyward (talk) 02:58, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- That's great but it doesn't have anything to do with this. WP:NOTAFORUM.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:03, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- I'll type slow "McClatchey's article makes no mention of and no connection to Blue Lives Matter." Why should it be in the Blue Lives Matter article if there is no connection to Blue Lives Matter? It's unrelated except in your mind--DHeyward (talk) 03:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- You do realize that the speed with which you type is completely unrelated to the speed at which I read the words, right? I can't actually hear you talking when you type, just FYI. Is there like an app or something I can download that will let me hear your voice - the slow, orotund, elephantine voice of DHeyward - as you type? Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:18, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- I'll type slow "McClatchey's article makes no mention of and no connection to Blue Lives Matter." Why should it be in the Blue Lives Matter article if there is no connection to Blue Lives Matter? It's unrelated except in your mind--DHeyward (talk) 03:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- That's great but it doesn't have anything to do with this. WP:NOTAFORUM.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:03, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
- (ec) and strike the aspersions as this is on my watchlist as I've edited before. How about you? --DHeyward (talk) 02:58, 26 January 2018 (UTC)