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:For your information these are reliable academic sources by specialists; that's eight of them, that's a lot. Reverting them is vandalism. If you don't believe me ask any at the reliable sources noticeboard [[WP:RSN]]. [[User:Dr.K.|Δρ.Κ.]] <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Dr.K.|λόγος]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">[[Special:Contributions/Dr.K.|πράξις]]</span></sup></small> 05:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC) |
:For your information these are reliable academic sources by specialists; that's eight of them, that's a lot. Reverting them is vandalism. If you don't believe me ask any at the reliable sources noticeboard [[WP:RSN]]. [[User:Dr.K.|Δρ.Κ.]] <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Dr.K.|λόγος]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">[[Special:Contributions/Dr.K.|πράξις]]</span></sup></small> 05:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC) |
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::About the elections, I remind you that the vast majority of the ethnic Greek MPs are elected from a variety of parties (included the two main parties of the country), i.e. the infobox figures is still perfectly in accordance even with the election numbers, if we count all ethnic Greek MPs.[[User:Alexikoua|Alexikoua]] ([[User talk:Alexikoua|talk]]) 22:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC) |
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== Some uncontroversial edits == |
== Some uncontroversial edits == |
Revision as of 22:09, 18 December 2013
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Misstranslation in Etymology and terminology
The article says: While the two terms are popularly interpreted as "Land of the Eagles" and "Children of the Eagles", they derive from the adverb shqip, which means "understanding each other".[24][25] It cites "the albanian language" by prof.dr. Xhevat Lloshi as a reference. While the Reference [1] (the reference no.25 in the main article),although in very bad english, cites the following explanation:
(Shqip spread out from the North to the South, and Shqipni/Shqipëri is probably a collective noun, following the common pattern of Arbëni/Arbëri. The change happened after the Ottoman conquest, because of the conflict in the whole line of the political, social, economic, religious, and cultural spheres with a totally alien world of the Oriental type. A new and more generalized ethnic and linguistic consciousness of all these people responded to this, distinguished against the foreigners as a community of men (shqiptarë) clearly understanding each-other, that is understanding each-other shqip. This adverb predominates in everyday use, the noun shqipe and the collocation gjuha shqipe are a recent written coinage. There is nothing scientific in explaining Shqipëri as "the country of the eagle" and shqiptarë as "the sons of the eagle".)
Now if we were to translate this in a more correct english way of speaking (and not albanian english :P ) , it says that these men (shqiptare) were recoknized as foreigners, who understood each other clearly in shqip. In the phrase " comunity of men clearly understanding each other , that is understanding each-other shiqip" , the part after the comma is a way of affirmation that the language in wich these men understood each other was in SHQIP. You can, in fact, research that "shqip" does not mean "to understand each other". And the reference material doesn't say such a thing at all. The mistranslation of this part changes the whole meaning of the explanation. In the phrase (There is nothing scientific in explaining Shqipëri as "the country of the eagle" and shqiptarë as "the sons of the eagle".) the author actually states that there is no need for a long scientific explanation for this part. It sounds not accurate as a way of expressing in english, but as I said, the reference is not expressed in a very english way . In Albanian it would be " S'ka asgje shkencore per te shpjeguar Shqiperi si "vendi i shqiponjave" dhe shqipetare si "bijte e shqiponjave" " . This means that the origin is as clear (for an Albanian speaker). In Albanian "Shqiponjë" means "Eagle" , that is why the author intends that it is clear that "Shqiperi" means "vendi i shqiponjave" ("Land of the eagles" or "country of the eagle/s " . Please study the references, and change this article. It is of great importance. you can contact me in skerdilaidgjoni@gmail.com Skerdilaid36 (talk) 12:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
GDP not correct
As Wikipedia estimates in the "Albanian Economy" page, the GDP of Albania is 25.035 billion $, not 24 as in the "Republic of Albania" page. The GDP per capita, is not adjusted and above all, doesn't reflect the change in population, with the actual resident population 2.83 mln and not 3,1 mln, as in "Wikipedia" actual estimate. You can consult my findings in Albanian Institute of Statistics, www.instat.gov.al. The laters publication of census, also shows an reductions in greek minority, in 0.87% of total population and fall of percetange of muslim religion, in 56%.
Suggestion by klevisgjoni@yahoo.com
Ethnic Groups
Greeks 3-6%,WOW,25 years living in Albania and i don't know it...,but still i can't understand why on the Parliamentary Elections of 23 June 2013,greek parties + all other minorities took only 0.9% of total vote ...,very strange!!!
I propose to change the greek number from 6% to 16%,why not...if the greeks feel better,lol !!!
ps;i find the references...
For the history most ethnic Greek members of the Albanian parliament don't belong to Greek parties. So, no wonder the Greek parties in Dropull had less than 25% of the votes in total.Alexikoua (talk) 19:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
I take that like a joke...c'mon we are neighbors ;)
In your references greeks make not 6% but 99% of Albania populaiton,in reality (- some aromune and albanians that for 300 euros,suddenly a beautiful morning woke up and were turned into greeks) you are less than 0.5%,and every year you are LESS and LESS,and Wiki will not change that fact,you like it or not,and for the history Dropull have 1/4 of the total population that was 20 years ago...,in 2013 more greeks live in Tirana than in the entire rest of the country ...
DEFINE IRONY...a country that asks others for minority rights,but it self refuses to recognize them...
=== ===
-Alexikoua , please refrain from lying . For the history , the greek parties did get 80 % of the votes in Dropull . The fact that you use dropull ( a region of 99 small villages and no (0) town ) , as your main argument , is in itself prooving the very small amount of ethnic greeks living in Albania . On top of that , the greek party is also getting almost all the votes from non-greek , non-albanian ethnic groups , such as ( montenegrins , macedonians) that live in albania , because there is no other party to represent them . Furthemore , the 2011 cencus did show only a 0,89% & of ethnic greeks in albania . Also the cia world factbook , and all other major unbiased sourced links show a MAXIMUM 2 % greek ethnic minority . Sorry , thats how many they are . You can keep editing wikipedia all day long , all year around , but still that number is not gonna change . This persons frustration came as a result of your unethical , biased continuous edits , on the Albanian article . PLEASE PRESENT SOURCED INFORMATION ( IF YOU HAVE ANY ) , TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS . Thinkmore2202 (talk) 19:02, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Removal of sourced, relevant map
This edit [1] is problematic. The map is very reliable sourced and relevant to the article. Many other country articles, such as Greece have similar maps, I don't see any reason why it should be removed. There is nothing "anti-albanian" about the map, this just sounds like nationalist WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Athenean (talk) 02:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- I also agree.Nationalist sentiments have no place in Wikipedia Vargmali (talk) 07:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Ethnic groups in the infobox
It's rather hypocritical to continually revert to the 82% census figure for Albanians yet not change the Greek figure to 0.87% and the other to 2.6%; if we're using the census stats for one, we ought to use it for all of them. I actually think, however, that we should leave this stuff out of the infobox completely since there are no universally accepted figures for the ethnic groups in Albania. --Local hero talk 14:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
It has been fixed as soon as noticed . It was a clear vandalism . The sad part is the clear support that these kind of vandalisms get from wikipedia editors of greek & serbian descent . It is sad , that wikipedia has become a playground for people with a dull agenda . Thank you for noticing . --Thinkmore2202 talk 17:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
- I don't know that it's fixed. As the infobox currently stands, it doesn't make much sense. If Greeks make up 4, 5, or 6%, the numbers don't add up to 100%. The 'Albanians' and 'other' are definitively stated as 95 and 2, respectively. Like I said, it'd be best to leave this out of the infobox entirely. The second-best approach would be to have a range for each group, like Greeks currently do. --Local hero talk 03:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Well the number is 2 % for the greek minority . But the greek editors are changing the stats all the time , at their best interest . So if anything has to be done , it is the 3-6 % to be changed to 3 % . That way it adds up to 100 % . According to the Cia which estimates a 2 % ethnic greek population , according to the census of 2011 which gave a 0,89 % , according to all the other sources , even the ones presented by them , such as (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/al.html) , the maximum number is 3 % . So i will change it right away to 3 % . Thinkmore2202 talk 04:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- Not so fast. The 3-6% is supported by many reliable sources. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 04:35, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I am watching the sources . I dont see ANY of them , showing a 6 % number . Please , be helpful and present us some . Please bring reliable , unbiased , reputable sources as per wikipedia roules . Thank you , Thinkmore2202 talk 04:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think you are. Did you see the quotes from several of these sources mentioning a Greek population of 300000 people? Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 04:42, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- Then why dont your copy paste it here for us to see ?! If that number is indeed what it is , then i dont think it will be a big problem for you to find one : UNBIASED , AUTHORITY source . If you can bring just 1 ...
Thinkmore2202 talk 04:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- I pasted 2 (two) to your talkpage. I can paste more. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 05:10, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- More:
^ Sabrina P. Ramet (1998). Nihil Obstat: Religion, Politics, and Social Change in East-Central Europe and Russia. Duke University Press. p. 222. ISBN 978-0-8223-2070-8. Retrieved 6 September 2013. "that between 250,000 and 300,000 Orthodox Greeks reside in Albania"
^ Ian Jeffries (2002). Eastern Europe at the Turn of the Twenty-first Century: A Guide to the Economies in Transition. Routledge. p. 69. ISBN 978-0-415-23671-3. Retrieved 6 September 2013. "It is difficult to know how many ethnic Greeks there are in Albania. The Greek government, it is typically claimed, says that there are around 300,000 ethnic Greeks in Albania, but most Western estimates are around the 200,000 mark."
^ Europa Publications (24 June 2008). The Europa World Year Book 2008. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 978-1-85743-452-1. Retrieved 22 December 2012. "...and Greece formally annulled claims to North Epirus (southern Albania), where there is a sizeable Greek minority. ... strained by concerns relating to the treatment of ethnic Greeks residing in Albania (numbering an estimated 300,000) ..."
^ Author No; Europa Publications Staff (6 September 2007). The Europa World Year Book: 2007. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-85743-413-2. Retrieved 22 December 2012. "During the early 1990s, however, bilateral relations were severely strained by concerns relating to the treatment of ethnic Greeks residing in Albania (numbering an estimated 300,000) and to ..."
^ RFE/RL Research Report: Weekly Analyses from the RFE/RL Research Institute. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Incorporated. 1993. Retrieved 22 December 2012. "Albanian officials alleged that the priest was promoting irredentist sentiments among Albania's Greek minority – estimated at between 60,000 and 300,000.". Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 05:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Also: <ref name="BideleuxJeffries2006">{{cite book|author1=Robert Bideleux|author2=Ian Jeffries|title=The Balkans: A Post-Communist History|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=5jrHOKsU9pEC&pg=PA49|accessdate=6 September 2013|date=15 November 2006|publisher=Routledge|isbn=978-0-203-96911-3|page=49|quote=The Albanian government claimed that there were only 60,000, based on the biased 1989 census, whereas the Greek government claimed that there were upwards of 300,000. Most Western estimates were around the 200,000 mark ...}}</ref> Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 05:23, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
::What is this ?! These are just articles from the same physical book , that their content cannot be verified . As such , you can change any number at your best interest , or even worst , those articles might not even exist at all . Furthemore , these are not AUTHORITY sources in any way shape or form , OR/AND verifiable online . It truly is amusing , to see how much you are strugling to find a single source , that would support your biased and NOT-standing case .
- You have 1) The cia world factbook saying a maximum 2 % ethnic greek minority 2) You have the 2011 official census showing a 0,89 % ethnic greek minority 3 ) You have the fact that on the elections the party that is representing the greeks did win a 0,90 % of the total votes 4) You have all the other AUTHORITY and UNBIASED sources showing a less than 2 % . And your argument is a book that might not even exist ?! Are we in wikipedia here , or kindergarden ?! Please , u can do better ...
Thinkmore2202 talk 04:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- For your information these are reliable academic sources by specialists; that's eight of them, that's a lot. Reverting them is vandalism. If you don't believe me ask any at the reliable sources noticeboard WP:RSN. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 05:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
- About the elections, I remind you that the vast majority of the ethnic Greek MPs are elected from a variety of parties (included the two main parties of the country), i.e. the infobox figures is still perfectly in accordance even with the election numbers, if we count all ethnic Greek MPs.Alexikoua (talk) 22:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Some uncontroversial edits
There are a couple of uncontroversial edits that unfortunately has drowned in the noice created by the recent edit war. Maybe some admin could reintroduce them while the article is closed for ordinary edits.
- There is a link pointing to "People's Republic" in the third section of the lede, ending up in China. It should point to "People's Socialist Republic of Albania".
- More China: In the caption to the second picture under "Economy", "Taivani" redirects to Taiwan! The relevant article is "Taivani" with no need for a redirect.
- In addition there has been a few bot edits and general fixes, among them removing the category "Countries of the Mediterranean Sea", but I suppose the bots will come back end clean up themselves.