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Death section pictures for July
there has just been room that has open up for a second image in July, and here's the contenders for death section pictures in July
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American Nobel chemist, Robert Curl
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2nd President of Angola, José Eduardo dos Santos
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57th President of Mexico, Luis Echeverría57th President of Mexico, Luis Echeverría
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12th Prime Minister and 51st President of Peru, Francisco Morales-Bermúdez
in my opinion the second picture should go to Robert curl, as we already have a world leader picture in the form of Shinzo Abe, the third picture should go to dos Santos cuz of his longevity as the leader of Angola, I wonder what everyone's opinions is. 4me689 (talk) 18:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- My money's on Curl too. At the end of the month, I think it would be Curl, Abe, Dos Santos (but please, not the pic you're proposing: I don't think it's appropriate to have the flag of a country that isn't his in the photo behind him) and a fourth one depending on who will die. And if no one more relevant dies, I would support Brook (for his important role in show business) or Echevarría (the Hispanic quota that I think the Year in Topic is missing). I "long" for some important woman to pass away...this Year in Topic is very masculinized. All this if there is room for four images. _-_Alsorian (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- It should be Curl & Abe until there's space for a third. Abe is by far the most notable person & Curl by far the most notable non-politician to die this month. The pics should be of people from different fields; it's not justified for both to be of politicians when a highly-notable scientist also died. The other politicians shown here are nowhere near as notable as Abe. Japan is the world's third-largest economy. None of the other politicians are from countries which are developed or among the ten largest economies. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:46, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- I remember Jim Michael saying last year that if more than one highly notable head of government/state died in a single month, it would make sense for there to be an exception to the variety rule and that we should in that case prioritise these figures. In the case of this month, I feel quite strongly that this scenario applies - it goes without saying that Abe should get the first image (mainly due to the circumstances of his death), but the second image should instead go to dos Santos - given that he was head of his country for almost 40 years (and was the second-longest serving President of any African state) and was a highly significant and influential figure in the continent. TheScrubby (talk) 16:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Dos Santos is nowhere near internationally important enough to be an exception. Angola is one of the least developed countries, so despite his very long term as leader, he didn't have major international effects. Even if Abe had died naturally, he'd have a photo because he's by far the most notable person to die this month. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:01, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think you understate dos Santos's international significance, which global obituaries empasise, particularly with his involvement in the Congo Wars - and Angola is one of the least developed countries in large part due to (arguably) the legacy of dos Santos, as well as the civil war that he presided over until 2001. I'd be curious to hear what others have to say, but I thoroughly disagree with the premise that dos Santos was nowhere near internationally important enough to be an exception (I can't quite say the same about the other leaders who passed this month though). TheScrubby (talk) 17:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that dos Santos kept his country poor, but that doesn't increase his notability. The DRC is also a LDC. The First & Second Congo Wars are continued with the Ituri & Kivu conflicts, so I can't see how we can give him high notability based on his input into those. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:47, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Fidel Ramos has been added, meaning that all 3 photos for this month are of politicians, which shouldn't be the case. Curl has a Nobel in Chemistry & should be one of the 3. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:40, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- in my opinion it should be the same as usual, Abe, curl, and Dos Santos.
- Ramos, does not have the same big affect on his country that, abe and Dos Santos had on theirs. 4me689 (talk) 19:22, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- While I have already expressed that this month should be an exception where the images should all go to the (highly notable) leaders who passed, if we were to omit one of the three I’d agree with 4me689 and prioritise dos Santos over Ramos. TheScrubby (talk) 23:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think you understate dos Santos's international significance, which global obituaries empasise, particularly with his involvement in the Congo Wars - and Angola is one of the least developed countries in large part due to (arguably) the legacy of dos Santos, as well as the civil war that he presided over until 2001. I'd be curious to hear what others have to say, but I thoroughly disagree with the premise that dos Santos was nowhere near internationally important enough to be an exception (I can't quite say the same about the other leaders who passed this month though). TheScrubby (talk) 17:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Dos Santos is nowhere near internationally important enough to be an exception. Angola is one of the least developed countries, so despite his very long term as leader, he didn't have major international effects. Even if Abe had died naturally, he'd have a photo because he's by far the most notable person to die this month. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:01, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
I think that we should limit the month to three photos and those being Curl, Abe, and Zawahiri. I think these three have international notoriety that outpaces other people being considered.PaulRKil (talk) 13:43, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Representing four different fields would be better: Peter Brook, Robert Curl, Shinzo Abe & Ayman al-Zawahiri. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:57, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Ongoing to describe COVID-19 Pandemic
It is unsure about the situation of the COVID-19 Pandemic which is either ongoing or not around but it is not so much of a big deal now. 86.128.56.73 (talk) 16:38, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- While the impacts have been lessened since 2020 and 2021, it is clearly ongoing. It continues to evolve new variants, continues to affect society and the economy and public health in numerous ways, and billions of people still aren't fully vaccinated – all of which is more than enough to justify inclusion. Wjfox2005 (talk) 08:16, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Agree per Wjfox2005. The Voivodeship King (talk) 09:46, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
David Warner inclusion
Just going to start this section for reference on his inclusion. I'm leaning towards include as he's won an Emmy, appeared in multiple renowned films (some international films at that) and (IMO) has just as much reason to be included as James Caan. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:24, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- If we're including Caan, Liotta & Warner - all of whom have very few awards & aren't considered to have been among the best actors - we're going to include many each year. I think we should exclude all of them. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 15:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'm inclined towards a neutral position, leaning towards opposing - from my point of view Warner's notability wasn't as great as that of either Caan or Liotta, and even those two are borderline inclusions at most. TheScrubby (talk) 16:06, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Using my usual metric of "proper" obituaries in international heavyweight sources, although many do exist a number of them are AP type copy and pastes. Compared (certainly) to Caan and (to a lesser extent) Liotta, there doesn't seem to be the coverage there. Black Kite (talk) 17:23, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
is Paul Sorvino notable enough for inclusion
he has a lot of big Hollywood movies under his belt, he was in Goodfellas with Ray Liotta, he's also in movies like, Romeo + Juliet, A Touch of Class, Reds, The Rocketeer, The Cooler, and Nixon.
I am neutral on his inclusion. if leaning, it will be include. cuz this person was on so many A-list movies. by the way please do not give a basic response like, no International nobility 2022 in the United States, give a good detailed response. 4me689 (talk) 18:19, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- He won no awards & is never considered to have been one of the best actors. There's nothing international or outstanding about his career. We don't include people on the basis of them having a long &/or prolific careers. Actors don't gain the notability of the films they've acted in. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 23:01, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- In this case, exclude due to a lack of international notability. TheScrubby (talk) 00:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
is Ivana Trump internationally notable enough for inclusion????
in my opinion, exclude. because she does not have enough international notability, the only reason she's known by the General Public is that she was the wife of a than future US president Donald Trump, Trump divorce her way before he even considered running for presidency. 4me689 (talk) 04:47, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude, because she did nothing significant outside the US. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 08:44, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed with Jim. Definite exclude due to lack of international notability. TheScrubby (talk) 02:08, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Bill Russell
Should Bill Russell also be excluded from the 1934 article as well or keep him there? He lacks international nobility but I’m curious. Kyu (talk) 20:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude from both due to insufficient international notability. The inclusion criteria for Births sections are the same as for Deaths sections. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:50, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with Jim Michael, this seems to be a trend when non-notable people die, they get added to the birth sections and they don't get removed cuz older years ain't as cleaned up. 4me689 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Ahh I see. I’d figure I ask cause I wasn’t so sure. I also added the importance tag on Pat Carroll because I’m not 100% sure if she should be here because not a lot of people even heard of her, aside from playing as the voice of Ursula in The Little Mermaid. I also don’t think Nichelle Nichols should be here either because she is only known for playing as Lt. Uhura on the original Star Trek series. Kyu (talk) 23:07, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Neutral, leaning on exclude for Russell. Definitely exclude for Carroll, while Nichelle Nichols could possibly be a borderline inclusion due to the prominence and significance of her role in one of the most internationally notable television shows of all time - though I’ll wait and see what others have to say. TheScrubby (talk) 02:06, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude Nichols due to a lack of international notability. Playing a major role in an internationally popular show is true of hundreds of domestic actors & doesn't create international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 10:26, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Neutral, leaning on exclude for Russell. Definitely exclude for Carroll, while Nichelle Nichols could possibly be a borderline inclusion due to the prominence and significance of her role in one of the most internationally notable television shows of all time - though I’ll wait and see what others have to say. TheScrubby (talk) 02:06, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Ahh I see. I’d figure I ask cause I wasn’t so sure. I also added the importance tag on Pat Carroll because I’m not 100% sure if she should be here because not a lot of people even heard of her, aside from playing as the voice of Ursula in The Little Mermaid. I also don’t think Nichelle Nichols should be here either because she is only known for playing as Lt. Uhura on the original Star Trek series. Kyu (talk) 23:07, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with Jim Michael, this seems to be a trend when non-notable people die, they get added to the birth sections and they don't get removed cuz older years ain't as cleaned up. 4me689 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Absolutely 100% include for Bill Russell. An 11-time NBA champion, more championships than any other individual in the history of American team sports. Beyond that he also broke down barriers for African-Americans in professional sports and was an icon of the American Civil Rights movement. I don't see how this could even be a question, frankly, especially when the article includes a "sprint canoeist," a sport no one has ever heard of, with a three-line long article, simply because they won an Olympic gold medal in 1956. As for Nichelle Nichols, I also say include because of the ongoing global cultural relevance of Star Trek, even if not everyone knows her name. Besides that, her deceased Star Trek co-stars were all included in their respective articles: DeForest Kelley in 1999, James Doohan in 2005, Majel Barrett in 2008, and Leonard Nimoy in 2015. Dragonbacon (talk) 02:39, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- All you say about Russell is domestic, which supports excluding him from here & that his place is on 2022 deaths in the United States. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- To User:TheScrubby So I’ll exclude Carroll but can she stay in the 1927 article or exclude her there too? Kyu (talk) 02:39, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- If one's death is excluded from a year article, it goes without saying that they would also be excluded on the year article for when they were born. So yes. And regarding the Star Trek cast, I have no real issue with the inclusion of Nicholls, though I would argue that Barrett ought to be excluded as she wasn't part of the core cast. TheScrubby (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- To User:TheScrubby So I’ll exclude Carroll but can she stay in the 1927 article or exclude her there too? Kyu (talk) 02:39, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- With all due respect Jim, I don't know who made you the authority on what is "domestic" and what is "international." Please see my response to TheScrubby below for Russell's international notability. Dragonbacon (talk) 15:16, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- By what standard are we defining "international notability" here? I know this has been debated endlessly before but it really does feel like a fatally flawed system when it would have you exclude Bill Russell and include Yelizaveta Dementyeva. Dragonbacon (talk) 02:43, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Final point: if an Olympic gold medal is all it takes to be "internationally notable," then Bill Russell automatically qualifies because he did, in fact, win an Olympic gold medal. In the same year as Dementyeva, even. Dragonbacon (talk) 02:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- It's been discussed on-and-off over the last year and a half, but there has been a consistent issue when it comes to who should be included so far as sports figures go. The only real points of consensus we have r.e. the sports field is that those who won individual Olympic gold medals (not won in teams) are included and that the most prominent sports figures from the most internationally played sports (such as cricket, soccer and tennis) are included. Sports that are only popularly played regionally (such as baseball and rugby) or predominately domestically/one country (such as gridiron football or Aussie Rules football) are a lot less certain, though it'd be nice if we got some consistency and clarity regarding this. I'm largely staying neutral on Russell, though from my perspective his notability and significance seems to be primarily limited to the United States. TheScrubby (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- A few points: basketball is absolutely played internationally. The NBA is followed internationally and its stars are known the world over. Virtually every country has its own basketball league, many of which are extremely popular stateside (e.g. China and Eastern Europe). It may not be "the most" internationally played but that is an arbitrary measure. Russell is well known internationally, there are obituaries in major newspapers all over the world, in many languages, and on Wikipedia there are at present articles on Russell in 53 languages. He is a titan of sports in the 20th century, omitting him from this article is basically the same as omitting Babe Ruth from the 1948 article, or Gordie Howe from 2016. He won more championships than anyone in the history of North American team sports, both as a player and as a coach, and is one of only five people inducted into the Hall of Fame (an institution with inductees from all over the world) as a player and coach. I understand that not everyone can be included but I don't think the admins here understand the degree of prominence Russell's shadow casts over international sports. With all due respect to Yelizaveta Dementyeva, who I'm sure was a nice person, people are not coming to this page to see her listed. She won a gold medal in one olympic games in a sport no one has ever heard of, and her wiki is 3 lines long. People come here to see Bill Russell. To not include him is to make articles from recent years less complete and informative than articles of past years, where athletes of far lower stature than Russell are included. Dragonbacon (talk) 15:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- His only significant international notability is an Olympic team medal, which by consensus is insufficient. Outside the US & his sport, very few people have heard of him. It's highly unlikely that the equivalent of him from any other country would gain support for inclusion. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:28, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- A few points: basketball is absolutely played internationally. The NBA is followed internationally and its stars are known the world over. Virtually every country has its own basketball league, many of which are extremely popular stateside (e.g. China and Eastern Europe). It may not be "the most" internationally played but that is an arbitrary measure. Russell is well known internationally, there are obituaries in major newspapers all over the world, in many languages, and on Wikipedia there are at present articles on Russell in 53 languages. He is a titan of sports in the 20th century, omitting him from this article is basically the same as omitting Babe Ruth from the 1948 article, or Gordie Howe from 2016. He won more championships than anyone in the history of North American team sports, both as a player and as a coach, and is one of only five people inducted into the Hall of Fame (an institution with inductees from all over the world) as a player and coach. I understand that not everyone can be included but I don't think the admins here understand the degree of prominence Russell's shadow casts over international sports. With all due respect to Yelizaveta Dementyeva, who I'm sure was a nice person, people are not coming to this page to see her listed. She won a gold medal in one olympic games in a sport no one has ever heard of, and her wiki is 3 lines long. People come here to see Bill Russell. To not include him is to make articles from recent years less complete and informative than articles of past years, where athletes of far lower stature than Russell are included. Dragonbacon (talk) 15:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- It's been discussed on-and-off over the last year and a half, but there has been a consistent issue when it comes to who should be included so far as sports figures go. The only real points of consensus we have r.e. the sports field is that those who won individual Olympic gold medals (not won in teams) are included and that the most prominent sports figures from the most internationally played sports (such as cricket, soccer and tennis) are included. Sports that are only popularly played regionally (such as baseball and rugby) or predominately domestically/one country (such as gridiron football or Aussie Rules football) are a lot less certain, though it'd be nice if we got some consistency and clarity regarding this. I'm largely staying neutral on Russell, though from my perspective his notability and significance seems to be primarily limited to the United States. TheScrubby (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Final point: if an Olympic gold medal is all it takes to be "internationally notable," then Bill Russell automatically qualifies because he did, in fact, win an Olympic gold medal. In the same year as Dementyeva, even. Dragonbacon (talk) 02:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- All you say about Russell is domestic, which supports excluding him from here & that his place is on 2022 deaths in the United States. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Bernd Bransch was an Olympic gold medalist in a team event and he is in the section for deaths in June, so on those grounds Bill Russell absolutely should be included in deaths in July. Unknown artist (talk) 08:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- That’s not really much of an argument for inclusion, when another figure with insufficient notability falls through the cracks. If that’s his only claim to notability, being a non-individual Olympic gold medalist, Bransch should be excluded. TheScrubby (talk) 12:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Exclude due to lack of international notability. Russell was a purely domestic sports figure with a cultural legacy that is textbook Americentric. PeaceInOurTime2021 (talk) 16:35, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
When a sport's premier league is in a particular nation, it doesn't seem fair to discount the achievements of a person in that league. Say, a Spanish footballer with an entire career in La Liga. Would a basketballer with a very strong career between the Venezuelan basketball league and Argentinian basketball league be given a place here, because they played notably in two countries? It seems short-sighted to discount playing in one league because it is domestic.
Specifically in the case of Bill Russell, I quote from his page: "Russell is widely considered to be one of the greatest basketball players of all time.", "he captained the gold-medal winning U.S. national basketball team at the 1956 Summer Olympics.", " In 2011, Barack Obama awarded Russell the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his accomplishments on the court and in the civil rights movement." In addition, he is tied with Michael Jordan for most NBA MVP awards. Tied. With the G.O.A.T.. He has more MVP awards than LeBron James, Magic Johnson and "his prominent rival" Wilt Chamberlain. If he were a modern era player, he would have a greater international history through the Olympics, but in his playing career, the basketball was for amateurs only, not optional based on players as it was today. Russell CHOSE not to play in the NBA immediately, postponing his debut to play for the United States. Before he had played an NBA game, Russell captained the team to a gold medal. As a pre-rookie. By choosing to play the Olympics and winning a gold medal, in addition to the other achievements of Bill Russell, he deserves a place on the Deaths List. Sincerely, The Voivodeship King (talk) 00:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Russell is very notable in the US, but has little international notability. Some sports are much more internationally notable than others. Some sportspeople are very well known in one country, but little-known in the rest of the world. Try mentioning Russell to people who aren't American or basketball fans - they've very unlikely to have a clue who you're talking about. The only reason I've heard of him is because his death was added to this article. If I didn't read Wikipedia, I'd still not have heard of him.
- A solely domestic Spanish footballer wouldn't be included on main year articles. A basketball player would be unlikely to have a very high-achieving career in multiple countries, but if he did he could be eligible for main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'll concede defeat on Russell, but one point you often make is that knowing who somebody is is not a criteria for inclusion. Take the debate earlier this year about Dwayne Johnson that spun off from the death of Scott Hall. You argued that it did not matter that Johnson was very well known, because he wasn't notable. Regards, The Voivodeship King (talk) 09:26, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- A person being well-known (even internationally) isn't enough for them to be on main year articles. If it were, many reality show participants, socialites & other 'famous-for-being-famous' people would be included. I didn't say Johnson isn't notable - I said he has little international notability. That's why I don't think he should be included, despite being known of by hundreds of millions of people across many countries. Some other frequent editors of main year articles have said similar things in regard to well-known people whose notability is solely or mainly in one country. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Fair enough. The Voivodeship King (talk) 13:44, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- A person being well-known (even internationally) isn't enough for them to be on main year articles. If it were, many reality show participants, socialites & other 'famous-for-being-famous' people would be included. I didn't say Johnson isn't notable - I said he has little international notability. That's why I don't think he should be included, despite being known of by hundreds of millions of people across many countries. Some other frequent editors of main year articles have said similar things in regard to well-known people whose notability is solely or mainly in one country. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'll concede defeat on Russell, but one point you often make is that knowing who somebody is is not a criteria for inclusion. Take the debate earlier this year about Dwayne Johnson that spun off from the death of Scott Hall. You argued that it did not matter that Johnson was very well known, because he wasn't notable. Regards, The Voivodeship King (talk) 09:26, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Nichelle Nichols
There seems to be a lack of consensus on whether or not to include Nichelle Nichols. I believe for many of the reasons stated for other American actors and athletes who have died in 2022, we should Exclude her. PaulRKil (talk) 17:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- I agree. She's a domestic figure who, like many actors, also has fans in other countries. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:57, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think she should be included. She was tremendously important in the history of television for being the first African-American woman in a significant role. Certainly better known abroad than James Caan, Richard Taruskin, and several others who appear on the list. Her death has been reported in lots of different countries. [1] [2] [3] [4] At a quick glance, popular culture (film&music) on the list is currently represented by 21 white men, 3 white women and Ms. Lata Mangeshkar as the single woman of color. On contrast, 52 athletes are included, even if they're not internationally known. We should include Nichelle Nichols. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1110:118:A377:15E1:DBE0:6326:5D9C (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- She was important in the history of US TV only. James Caan is far more well-known outside the US. Millions of people outside the US know of Caan & his work, but few people outside the US, other than Star Trek fans, have heard of her. The deaths of both of them were reported in many countries due to them having fans in many countries, with the coverage of her being Star Trek-centred. We don't make exceptions for people based on their demographic, and Americans are over-represented. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:59, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think she should be included. She was tremendously important in the history of television for being the first African-American woman in a significant role. Certainly better known abroad than James Caan, Richard Taruskin, and several others who appear on the list. Her death has been reported in lots of different countries. [1] [2] [3] [4] At a quick glance, popular culture (film&music) on the list is currently represented by 21 white men, 3 white women and Ms. Lata Mangeshkar as the single woman of color. On contrast, 52 athletes are included, even if they're not internationally known. We should include Nichelle Nichols. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1110:118:A377:15E1:DBE0:6326:5D9C (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Does Olivia Newton-John deserve a photo?
I think she does. She had a notable career in both music AND film. 2601:204:CF01:1840:F0C0:DFE3:49BD:3976 (talk) 21:29, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like someone's already put a photo in there. MadGuy7023 (talk) 21:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Well, I’m thinking Newton-John shouldn’t have an image here as we already have Sidney Poitier in January, William Hurt in March and Jean-Louis Trintignant in June. I understand that Peter Brook and James Caan’s images aren’t in the July section and I don’t think Newton-John fits in the August category for images. I was going to say the same thing about Fidel Ramos as we have Benigno Aquino III in 2021, his mother Corazon in 2009, but apparently dos Santos died the same day as Shinzō Abe and it’s kinda silly to have three politicians since Robert Curl is the only one of the three who isn’t a politician that deserved to have an image. Kyu (talk) 21:52, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Well we need to have a notable entertainer of some kind for August. And Oliva Newton John is highly notable; her acting career aside, her singing career had top ten hits in the US, UK, Australia, I mean that proves notability. 2601:204:CF01:1840:F0C0:DFE3:49BD:3976 (talk) 22:18, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- She's by far the most notable person to die this month, so she should have a photo. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Finally we can include the photo of a woman...and a very important one. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:07, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes! Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:46, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Honorifics such as Dame, Sir, etc.
Lets get a consensus on the usage of honorifics and titles such as 'dame' or 'sir' for births/deaths. Neither should be included, it is not the reason why these individuals are listed in the deaths section. Even when it would be warranted such as for Presidents and other non-royal world leaders, we don't precede their name with their title. In 2018 under deaths, we have Bush 41 listed as George H. W. Bush, 41st President of the United States (b. 1924). Not as President George H.W. Bush (b. 1924). Exclude them entirely. PaulRKil (talk) 13:12, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- No, leave them out. MOS:PREFIX. Black Kite (talk) 19:11, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude all - Sir, Dame, Dr, Rev etc. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
- We’ve always included “Sir” and “Dame” when it comes to such figures (regardless of whether or not we want to change that now), and it’s a false equivalency to invoke Presidential figures, where such a title has never been included, especially in photo captions. So I don’t know why that point is consistently brought up by you. TheScrubby (talk) 08:14, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Anne Heche
I don’t think Heche should be here although she was an Emmy winner. Should she be excluded? Kyu (talk) 20:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude due to insufficient international notability. Most of the coverage surrounding her death are due to the (tragic) circumstances of it rather than the notability of her career itself. TheScrubby (talk) 00:54, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude due to a lack of international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 05:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude due to a lack of international notability, I didn't even heard of her until she died. 4me689 (talk) 05:49, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- @4me689:, that qualifies you, not the actress. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Stabbing of Salman Rushdie
Can we add the stabbing of Salman Rushdie here? He is an internationally renowned figure who has gotten controversy from several countries governments. 2600:100C:A203:16B3:3117:7804:B27A:9C3E (talk) 02:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Done. --Gaois (talk) 04:39, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- An international figure indeed, and a notable event in 2022 that clearly deserves a mention here. Wjfox2005 (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- International news, but with little international repercussion. I have my doubts that it should be included. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:21, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- See the Stabbing of Salman Rushdie#Political response section. Iran. Nuclear talks. "US Department of Justice's August 5, 2022 allegation that Iran had planned to assassinate US national security advisor John Bolton in 2020... Hezbollah supporters hailed the attacker on social media, calling him a hero, and using the hashtag "holy stabbing" in their posts". Sounds like international repercussions to me. --Gaois (talk) 20:39, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- But they aren't. The reaction of Hezbollah supporters (and Iranian authorities) is natural and that Bolton could be the target of an assassination attempt (nothing is confirmed) is not a reaction at all to the Rushdie stabbing. There've been no sanctions, no emergency meetings, no expulsions of diplomats...I'm missing things. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- See the Stabbing of Salman Rushdie#Political response section. Iran. Nuclear talks. "US Department of Justice's August 5, 2022 allegation that Iran had planned to assassinate US national security advisor John Bolton in 2020... Hezbollah supporters hailed the attacker on social media, calling him a hero, and using the hashtag "holy stabbing" in their posts". Sounds like international repercussions to me. --Gaois (talk) 20:39, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Persisting front page news worldwide. Include. Black Kite (talk) 22:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with Alsoriano - plus Rushdie was wounded, not assassinated. Exclude. TheScrubby (talk) 00:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Include It received worldwide news coverage and the way I look at it, if it can make it to the Wiki's In the News section, there shouldn't be a problem with it being in this year's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Is Piero Angela notable enough for inclusion. this dude has already been added to the death section twice already, so I'm making the talk page just to see what everyone's thoughts is, any thoughts??? 4me689 (talk) 22:42, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude due to a lack of international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 07:10, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Exclude per Jim Michael. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:32, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Wolfgang Petersen inclusion
Thoughts on Wolfgang Petersen being included in the death section? I'm creating a talk page discussion about this for reference. I'm leaning towards inclusion for the fact he made blockbuster films, was a well known director and was a two-time Oscar nominee. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:39, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose because although he was a successful filmmaker in his native Germany as well as the US, he has no awards. Nominations aren't important enough. He isn't considered to have been one of the best filmmakers. His notability is significantly below that of Paul Verhoeven, who likewise has been a successful filmmaker in his own country as well as the US but whom has significant awards from multiple countries. We don't & shouldn't include most of the European actors who have been in notable films on both sides of the Atlantic; I don't think we should treat filmmakers differently in that regard. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:17, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Include, albeit as a borderline inclusion, looking at his resume, it's safe to assume that this dude is famous in other countries outside of Germany and the United States and is successful in many other countries around the world. it looks like a dude who would be included in these types of articles. 4me689 (talk) 02:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I’d be inclined to include him as a borderline inclusion, as per 4me689. Which naturally means I’d also be opposed to his image being included. TheScrubby (talk) 03:04, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Did he have anything other than his films being popular in many countries? Thousands of people have popularity in multiple countries. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Include. Wjfox2005 (talk) 15:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Where should the inclusion bar be for fashion designers? Are Issey Miyake & Hanae Mori internationally notable enough? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- both look they have enough International nobility for me to approve for inclusion, I mean they look like they have a pretty good resume. 4me689 (talk) 03:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Personally fashion designers are internationally notable enough and should be included (in terms of Miyake and Mori). TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:55, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Collages
Can collages be added to main year articles, recently a discussion has been opened up in the 2020 articles talk section about collages an idea brought up by the user KoopaDaQuick, I also had this idea but just forgot about it until very recently. it would bring more originality to this pages and would make every main year article look unique, the idea is like the collages in the decade articles, we're a couple photos are in the info box and you can click on them to go directly to the article that picture is from. I want to see what everyone's thoughts on adding a collage are, and if yes list what pictures would be on a possible 2022 collage. 4me689 (talk) 00:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, giving each year a montage would be a good idea. I don't know if we want to do one as plentiful as the one I did for 2020, but maybe we could do it in a similar manner as the ones we already use for the decade articles. KoopaDaQuick (talk) 04:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)