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::What does that have to do with anything? It brings up a valid point about the quality of the article. And then the Pyatt-Nuland phone call, obviously setting up a puppet government. Jesus, is everyone here an idiot? Either that or they are on US government payroll. Which frankly would not surprise me by this point. And the most absurd thing is how the US government's and the West's allegations is taken seriously despite the fact that they lie constantly. The fact that people still trust them is just so mind baffling to me that I cannot wrap my mind around it. The State department headquarters is that way, can pick up your $1.25 for your propaganda. --> --[[Special:Contributions/2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9|2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9]] ([[User talk:2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9|talk]]) 05:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC) |
::What does that have to do with anything? It brings up a valid point about the quality of the article. And then the Pyatt-Nuland phone call, obviously setting up a puppet government. Jesus, is everyone here an idiot? Either that or they are on US government payroll. Which frankly would not surprise me by this point. And the most absurd thing is how the US government's and the West's allegations is taken seriously despite the fact that they lie constantly. The fact that people still trust them is just so mind baffling to me that I cannot wrap my mind around it. The State department headquarters is that way, can pick up your $1.25 for your propaganda. --> --[[Special:Contributions/2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9|2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9]] ([[User talk:2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9|talk]]) 05:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:::I agree. Don't be caught up in the ridicule and insults spewed out by the US State Dept hacks or whatever who try to make discussion toxic in their efforts to get good NPOV editors like yourself banned or so disgusted you run from the stench of these propaganda-destroyed pages. Keep fighting the good fight, which is to create NPOV pages on the events surrounding the Ukraine crisis and coup.[[User:Haberstr|Haberstr]] ([[User talk:Haberstr|talk]]) 07:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 07:18, 6 April 2015
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Recent events
Where the pro-Russia demonstrations in the aftermath are covered? It should be added that some of the recent protest are neither spontaneous, nor entirely local, and include Russian tourist/activist and organized busloads arriving from Russia itself.[1]— Preceding unsigned comment added by An unknown editor (talk) 3, March 2014
NO MENTION OF VICTORIA NULAND AND THE GEOFFRY PYATT??? YOU WONDER WHO RUNS WIKIPROPAGANDA
Jonathan Marcus: At the outset it should be clear that this is a fragment of what may well be a larger phone conversation. But the US has not denied its veracity and has been quick to point a finger at the Russian authorities for being behind its interception and leak. Voice thought to be Pyatt's: I think we're in play. The Klitschko [Vitaly Klitschko, one of three main opposition leaders] piece is obviously the complicated electron here. Especially the announcement of him as deputy prime minister and you've seen some of my notes on the troubles in the marriage right now so we're trying to get a read really fast on where he is on this stuff. But I think your argument to him, which you'll need to make, I think that's the next phone call you want to set up, is exactly the one you made to Yats [Arseniy Yatseniuk, another opposition leader]. And I'm glad you sort of put him on the spot on where he fits in this scenario. And I'm very glad that he said what he said in response.
Jonathan Marcus: The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs. Nuland: Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea.
Anti-government protesters in Kiev
Pyatt: Yeah. I guess... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this.
Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.
Pyatt: Yeah, no, I think that's right. OK. Good. Do you want us to set up a call with him as the next step?
Nuland: My understanding from that call - but you tell me - was that the big three were going into their own meeting and that Yats was going to offer in that context a... three-plus-one conversation or three-plus-two with you. Is that not how you understood it?
Pyatt: No. I think... I mean that's what he proposed but I think, just knowing the dynamic that's been with them where Klitschko has been the top dog, he's going to take a while to show up for whatever meeting they've got and he's probably talking to his guys at this point, so I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it before they all sit down and he explains why he doesn't like it.
Nuland: OK, good. I'm happy. Why don't you reach out to him and see if he wants to talk before or after.
Pyatt: OK, will do. Thanks.
Nuland: OK... one more wrinkle for you Geoff. [A click can be heard] I can't remember if I told you this, or if I only told Washington this, that when I talked to Jeff Feltman [United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs] this morning, he had a new name for the UN guy Robert Serry did I write you that this morning?
Jonathan Marcus: An intriguing insight into the foreign policy process with work going on at a number of levels: Various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian opposition; efforts to get the UN to play an active role in bolstering a deal; and (as you can see below) the big guns waiting in the wings - US Vice-President Joe Biden clearly being lined up to give private words of encouragement at the appropriate moment. Pyatt: Yeah I saw that.
Nuland: OK. He's now gotten both Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.
Jonathan Marcus: Not for the first time in an international crisis, the US expresses frustration at the EU's efforts. Washington and Brussels have not been completely in step during the Ukraine crisis. The EU is divided and to some extent hesitant about picking a fight with Moscow. It certainly cannot win a short-term battle for Ukraine's affections with Moscow - it just does not have the cash inducements available. The EU has sought to play a longer game; banking on its attraction over time. But the US clearly is determined to take a much more activist role. Pyatt: No, exactly. And I think we've got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I'm still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there's a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I'm sure there's a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep... we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.
Nuland: So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [US vice-president's national security adviser Jake] Sullivan's come back to me VFR [direct to me], saying you need [US Vice-President Joe] Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details] to stick. So Biden's willing.
Pyatt: OK. Great. Thanks.
Jonathan Marcus: Overall this is a damaging episode between Washington and Moscow. Nobody really emerges with any credit. The US is clearly much more involved in trying to broker a deal in Ukraine than it publicly lets on. There is some embarrassment too for the Americans given the ease with which their communications were hacked. But is the interception and leaking of communications really the way Russia wants to conduct its foreign policy ? Goodness - after Wikileaks, Edward Snowden and the like could the Russian government be joining the radical apostles of open government? I doubt it. Though given some of the comments from Vladimir Putin's adviser on Ukraine Sergei Glazyev - for example his interview with the Kommersant-Ukraine newspaper the other day - you don't need your own listening station to be clear about Russia's intentions. Russia he said "must interfere in Ukraine" and the authorities there should use force against the demonstrators.
- Wikipropaganda is a good name for an encyclopedia entry that blanks out the alleged role, sourced from RS, of the US in the overthrow of Yanukovych and specifically the evidence that is the Nuland phone call.Haberstr (talk) 07:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Where's McCain? Nuland? This article is pure propaganda.
Why isn't McCains and Nulands involvment mentioned anywhere? Why is there a section called Russian involvment, but not a single word about the fact that the coup was supported, financed and coordinated by the united states and the european union?
I presume true information has been attempted to be added to the article before but the CIA keeps sending masses of accounts to engage in editing wars, right?
194.237.157.205 (talk) 14:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
- WP:NOTAFORUM. RT TV comments section is over that way --> Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:08, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
- What does that have to do with anything? It brings up a valid point about the quality of the article. And then the Pyatt-Nuland phone call, obviously setting up a puppet government. Jesus, is everyone here an idiot? Either that or they are on US government payroll. Which frankly would not surprise me by this point. And the most absurd thing is how the US government's and the West's allegations is taken seriously despite the fact that they lie constantly. The fact that people still trust them is just so mind baffling to me that I cannot wrap my mind around it. The State department headquarters is that way, can pick up your $1.25 for your propaganda. --> --2601:8:BD80:F3F:5DC0:D1D:DA5C:47E9 (talk) 05:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- I agree. Don't be caught up in the ridicule and insults spewed out by the US State Dept hacks or whatever who try to make discussion toxic in their efforts to get good NPOV editors like yourself banned or so disgusted you run from the stench of these propaganda-destroyed pages. Keep fighting the good fight, which is to create NPOV pages on the events surrounding the Ukraine crisis and coup.Haberstr (talk) 07:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- ^ From Russia, ‘Tourists’ Stir the Protests, NYTimes, 3, March 2014