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I agree with Ferrylodge's comment immediately above. I would go a bit further, though. I would suggest that the section titled "Background on Rehnquist" be removed. It's interesting information, to be sure, but I think it belongs in his biography only. Here's my reasoning. To say that the pre-judicial writings which the section cites are relevant to this article, you must infer that these writings – more than 40 years old at the time ''Morrison'' was decided – influenced Rehnquist's opinion for the Court. (And I emphasize "opinion ''for the Court''". Rehnquist authored it, to be sure, but he was writing for five Justices.) But an inference like this seems to me a clear example of original research. If one wishes to make a connection between the pre-judicial writings and ''Morrison'', I think the only permissible way to do it is to cite a reliable source which itself makes that connection. Essentially, I'm concerned that if the "Background on Rehnquist" section is included here, it'll become OK to include biographical speculation in ''every'' article about Supreme Court decisions. Best, [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 14:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC) |
I agree with Ferrylodge's comment immediately above. I would go a bit further, though. I would suggest that the section titled "Background on Rehnquist" be removed. It's interesting information, to be sure, but I think it belongs in his biography only. Here's my reasoning. To say that the pre-judicial writings which the section cites are relevant to this article, you must infer that these writings – more than 40 years old at the time ''Morrison'' was decided – influenced Rehnquist's opinion for the Court. (And I emphasize "opinion ''for the Court''". Rehnquist authored it, to be sure, but he was writing for five Justices.) But an inference like this seems to me a clear example of original research. If one wishes to make a connection between the pre-judicial writings and ''Morrison'', I think the only permissible way to do it is to cite a reliable source which itself makes that connection. Essentially, I'm concerned that if the "Background on Rehnquist" section is included here, it'll become OK to include biographical speculation in ''every'' article about Supreme Court decisions. Best, [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 14:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC) |
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My original intention was to have no speculation at all, but merely allow Rehnquist to speak for himself. But people kept messing with it.[[User:Jimmuldrow|Jimmuldrow]] 01:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC) |
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==Big Problems With This Article== |
==Big Problems With This Article== |
Revision as of 01:38, 1 February 2007
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I don't get it? Couldn't the girl simply go to the FBI and have the two guys convicted for violating her civil rights and lock them up for up to 30 years? The FBI is well known to use civil rights violation convictions against criminals who were not punished for violent crimes. Like the KKK's negro activist killings in the early 1960's. 195.70.48.242 14:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please cleanup the red template.Lan Di 23:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Facts of Case
Are you disputing those are facts of the case? Do you have a counter cite as that is what Taylor's articles clearly say? 69.105.0.115 02:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi, how are you?Jimmuldrow 01:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Disputed rationale
This sentence is simply incorrect. "...the Court majority ruled that the theory that states are "sovereign" in the area of law enforcement overrode the commerce clause and the equal protection clause."
The courts real rationale was that,
A. Gender motivated crimes are not economic activity "Gender-motivated crimes of violence are not, in any sense of the phrase, economic activity. While we need not adopt a categorical rule against aggregating the effects of any noneconomic activity in order to decide these cases, thus far in our Nation's history our cases have upheld Commerce Clause regulation of intrastate activity only where that activity is economic in nature. See, e.g., id., at 559-560, and the cases cited therein." (Section 2, Paragraph 15)
B. The law in question gives too much police power to the Feds. "If accepted, petitioners' reasoning would allow Congress to regulate any crime as long as the nationwide, aggregated impact of that crime has substantial effects on employment, production, transit, or consumption. Indeed, if Congress may regulate gender-motivated violence, it would be able to regulate murder or any other type of violence since gender-motivated violence, as a subset of all violent crime, is certain to have lesser economic impacts than the larger class of which it is a part." (Section 2, Paragraph 20)
C. This decision gives police powers to Feds that states have always had but Framers did not give to federal government. "We accordingly reject the argument that Congress may regulate noneconomic, violent criminal conduct based solely on that conduct's aggregate effect on interstate commerce. The Constitution requires a distinction between what is truly national and what is truly local. Lopez, 514 U.S., at 568 (citing Jones & Laughlin Steel, 301 U.S., at 30). In recognizing this fact we preserve one of the few principles that has been consistent since the Clause was adopted. The regulation and punishment of intrastate violence that is not directed at the instrumentalities, channels, or goods involved in interstate commerce has always been the province of the States. See, e.g., Cohens v. Virginia, 6 Wheat. 264, 426, 428 (1821) (Marshall, C. J.) (stating that Congress "has no general right to punish murder committed within any of the States," and that it is "clear ... that congress cannot punish felonies generally"). Indeed, we can think of no better example of the police power, which the Founders denied the National Government and reposed in the States, than the suppression of violent crime and vindication of its victims. [n8] See, e.g., Lopez, 514 U.S., at 566 ("The Constitution ... withhold[s] from Congress a plenary police power"); id., at 584-585 (Thomas, J., concurring) ("[W]e always have rejected readings of the Commerce Clause and the scope of federal power that would permit Congress to exercise a police power"), 596-597, and n. 6 (noting that the first Congresses did not enact nationwide punishments for criminal conduct under the Commerce Clause)." (Section 2, Paragraph 22)
D. Congress may only punish state actions of discrimination, not personal ones. "As our cases have established, state-sponsored gender discrimination violates equal protection unless it " 'serves "important governmental objectives and ... the discriminatory means employed" are "substantially related to the achievement of those objectives." ' " United States v. Virginia, 518 U.S. 515, 533 (1996) (quoting Mississippi Univ. for Women v. Hogan, 458 U.S. 718, 724 (1982), in turn quoting Wengler v. Druggists Mut. Ins. Co., 446 U.S. 142, 150 (1980)). See also Craig v. Boren, 429 U.S. 190, 198-199 (1976). However, the language and purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment place certain limitations on the manner in which Congress may attack discriminatory conduct. These limitations are necessary to prevent the Fourteenth Amendment from obliterating the Framers' carefully crafted balance of power between the States and the National Government. See Flores, supra, at 520-524 (reviewing the history of the Fourteenth Amendment's enactment and discussing the contemporary belief that the Amendment "does not concentrate power in the general government for any purpose of police government within the States") (quoting T. Cooley, Constitutional Limitations 294, n. 1 (2d ed. 1871)). Foremost among these limitations is the time-honored principle that the Fourteenth Amendment, by its very terms, prohibits only state action. "[T]he principle has become firmly embedded in our constitutional law that the action inhibited by the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment is only such action as may fairly be said to be that of the States. That Amendment erects no shield against merely private conduct, however discriminatory or wrongful." Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1, 13, and n. 12 (1948).
Shortly after the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, we decided two cases interpreting the Amendment's provisions, United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883), and the Civil Rights Cases, 109 U.S. 3 (1883). In Harris, the Court considered a challenge to §2 of the Civil Rights Act of 1871. That section sought to punish "private persons" for "conspiring to deprive any one of the equal protection of the laws enacted by the State." 106 U.S., at 639. We concluded that this law exceeded Congress' §5 power because the law was "directed exclusively against the action of private persons, without reference to the laws of the State, or their administration by her officers." Id., at 640. In so doing, we reemphasized our statement from Virginia v. Rives, 100 U.S. 313, 318 (1880), that " 'these provisions of the fourteenth amendment have reference to State action exclusively, and not to any action of private individuals.' " Harris, supra, at 639 (misquotation in Harris).
We reached a similar conclusion in the Civil Rights Cases. In those consolidated cases, we held that the public accommodation provisions of the Civil Rights Act of 1875, which applied to purely private conduct, were beyond the scope of the §5 enforcement power. 109 U.S., at 11 ("Individual invasion of individual rights is not the subject-matter of the [Fourteenth] [A]mendment"). See also, e.g., Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620, 628 (1996) ("[I]t was settled early that the Fourteenth Amendment did not give Congress a general power to prohibit discrimination in public accommodations"); Lugar v. Edmondson Oil Co., 457 U.S. 922, 936 (1982) ("Careful adherence to the 'state action' requirement preserves an area of individual freedom by limiting the reach of federal law and federal judicial power"); Blum v. Yaretsky, 457 U.S. 991, 1002 (1982); Moose Lodge No. 107 v. Irvis, 407 U.S. 163, 172 (1972); Adickes v. S. H. Kress & Co., 398 U.S. 144, 147 n. 2 (1970); United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 554 (1876) ("The fourteenth amendment prohibits a state from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; but this adds nothing to the rights of one citizen as against another. It simply furnishes an additional guaranty against any encroachment by the States upon the fundamental rights which belong to every citizen as a member of society"). (Section 3, Paragraph 4-6)
So they actually ruled that crime in general is not part of interstate commerce and that the federal government has never had a general police power, which the states do, and this law gave them a power that the constitution reserves for the states. They then ruled that Feds can't through 14th punish private individual actions, only state actions, and she was suing him, not the state for action or inaction. This is more accurate and nuanced then simply saying "state sovereignty" overruled commerce and 14th amendment. 68.122.9.232 01:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I did try to squeeze a lot of the above into an encyclopedia sized article. It's much more complete than it was before.Jimmuldrow 03:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this statement "the Court majority ruled that the theory that states are "sovereign" in the area of law enforcement overrode the commerce clause and the equal protection clause." is not true, as the court ruled that sexual assualt was not interstate commerce and that private actions were not covered under the fourteenth amendment, not that state sovereignty overrode them, as state sovereignty was only discussed to show that the federal government didn't in general have the same powers over individuals and law enforcement that the state's do. So the decision said the federal government didn't have certain powers, not that state sovereignty overrode them. IR 05:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
All I can say is that, not having looked at this article for a while, and returning to it only now, I am deeply disappointed. The changes made since April have been highly inaccurate, for substantially the reasons given by User:68.122.9.232, and the quality of the writing itself is, I must say, very low. Hydriotaphia 13:05, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe Hydriotaphia has suggestions for improving the quality of the writing. There were fewer facts before, and worse formatting. Please point out any more inaccuracies that are valid. For now, I defer to your interpretation of the statement in question.Jimmuldrow 14:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, if Hydriotaphia's reasons are substantially the reasons given by User:68.122.9.232, isn't the previous version worse? Those points are mentioned now, and weren't before. I appreciate good faith efforts to improve accuracy and writing, but no more (as User:68.122.9.232 did before) saying that a thing isn't there if (as happened on a previous occasion) it was only mentioned seven or eight times. Or repeating the same thing over and over no matter what the facts are. A good faith concern for accuracy includes not ignoring facts.Jimmuldrow 15:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
As for the old version, most of the old Rationale sub-section was a paragraph on the Lopez precedent which was removed at the repeated suggestion of User:68.122.9.232. You can say my writing quality is very low compared to that if you want to, but your expertise does us no good if you don't share what it is.Jimmuldrow 16:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
In terms of logic, Hydriotaphia's major premise is that he's deeply disappointed in the current version for reasons of factuality and prose.
Hydriotaphia's minor premise is that the reasons for the major premise are points mentioned by User:68.122.9.232 above.
Which, in terms of logic, would imply contradictory conclusions, namely that:
- Adding in points mentioned by User:68.122.9.232 above
that weren't there before, and taking out what User:68.122.9.232 wanted taken out, make the article worse than before.
- The reason why is that Hydrotaphia agrees with points mentioned by User:68.122.9.232.
Jimmuldrow 16:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe a good place to start would be for Hydrotaphia to decide whether adding points mentioned by User:68.122.9.232 makes the sub-article better or worse, and go from there.Jimmuldrow 16:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
The "original research" for Cruikshank applying the equal protection clause to state action, not to state inaction, was from another fine Wikipedia article on that decision.Jimmuldrow 19:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Glad you found the sovereignty quote. Could all concerned here try to avoid Truthiness.Jimmuldrow 19:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
And Hydriotaphia, as to the factuality and prose of the old version, what did "additionally punishing criminals for the faults of the judicial system lacks the required proportionality." mean? That we should feel sorry for Morrison? Or that he was in danger of being punished too much? I thought the proportionality thing was about punishing Morrison instead of the state, although Rehnquist had another problem with that. So what was so great about the old version? Answer.Jimmuldrow 22:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
What I'm basically trying to say is, don't bluff or pretend. If you know the facts can be improved, do so by telling me something that's verifiable and that I don't already know, as opposed to incorrect corrections and bad manners. If the prose needs to be improved, why was it so bad before? Why didn't you improve it then, if you knew how?Jimmuldrow 22:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I offended you. Let's see what we can do to improve the article. Hydriotaphia 03:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
As to Cruikshank, I think it's a matter of emphasis. I'm somewhat puzzled as to why it's discussed at such length in the article. The citation of Cruikshank is part of a larger string citation, and isn't relied on to the degree that, for example, the Civil Rights Cases and United States v. Harris are. Are you trying to make the point that the Morrison court reaffirmed the state action doctrine? If so, it seems to me Cruikshank isn't the case that Morrison relies on for that doctrine – it is, more than anything else, the Civil Rights Cases, which, as I'm sure you know, is the case that everybody cites to for the state action doctrine. Perhaps we should just eliminate the reference to Cruikshank altogether; it seems otiose, and it is more pertinent to discuss the Civil Rights Cases.
As to the "sovereignty" point, it's important to emphasize that the court, doctrinally at least, didn't strike down VAWA because it ruled that there are some inviolable core subject matters that only the states and not the federal government can regulate. The court struck it down – again, as a matter of explicit legal doctrine – because of the state action doctrine and because the "aggregation principle" of Wickard v. Filburn was held in Lopez not to apply to "noneconomic" activity. Now, if you want to say that the unstated but motivating force behind the decision was in fact the idea that there should be core state subject matters, that is fine, and indeed I agree with you; but we'll need to find a reputable authority for that proposition, because there's no support for that thesis in the text of the opinion itself. (When I have time I'll see if I can find such an authority.)
Finally, when I referred to the writing, I meant merely to refer to phrases such as "Rehnquist mentioned Civil Rights Cases decided by the Court in 1883 that overruled the Civil Rights Act of 1875 as a precedent." I've never heard lawyers or judges refer to statutes as "precedents" to be "overruled"; I've only heard those words used for case law. My point is simply that we should be a bit more precise and conventional in our diction here, that's all.
I'll see if I can find the time to pitch in. Meanwhile, best of luck to you. Hydriotaphia 03:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
So before you overlooked Rehnquist's quote about areas where states are "sovereign", then you found it, now you lost it again.
Whatever.Jimmuldrow 11:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Also, Cruikshank wasn't just part of a string citation. It was cited because Rehnquist chose to quote from it. If you missed that, look again.
Rehnquist's interest in court cases from the Cruikshank era dates back at least to his 1952 memo "A Random Thought on the Segregation Cases."Jimmuldrow 12:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Surely you're not saying that we ought to discuss every case from which Rehnquist quotes, because that would mean we'd have to devote space to United States v. Guest, Cohens v. Virginia, Shelley v. Kraemer, etc. I'm also not clear on why Rehnquist's personal "interest in court cases from the Cruikshank era" is either unique or (more importantly) relevant here; every constitutional lawyer is necessarily interested in Reconstruction-era case law, because it's so important to interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment; and at any rate, this article is about Morrison, not about the intellectual predilections of Chief Justice Rehnquist. Best, Hydriotaphia 13:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
If you want relevance to law-enforcement issues, which is what is relevant to Morrison, Cruikshank and United States v. Harris apply to that more than a segregation decision. By 2000, even Rehnquist no longer tried to argue that "Plessy v. Ferguson was rightly decided and should be reaffirmed."Jimmuldrow 14:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Also, if you want relevance, the part of Rehnquist's remark on areas of state sovereignty is the part that mentions law enforcement, which is why I had it that way before.Jimmuldrow 14:31, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
But I'll do it your way for now and give Civil Rights Cases top billing.Jimmuldrow 14:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I think this is the right decision. After all, whether we should spend a whole paragraph talking about Cruikshank and Harris doesn't just depend on whatever factual similarities they may have to Morrison. It depends mostly on the emphasis that the court gave to those opinions. But it's not a huge deal, and at any rate I'm glad you got rid of the Cruikshank quote; that strikes me as a major improvement. The article is a bit clearer now, though it could stand more improvement of course, especially in the Commerce Clause section. I'll try my hand at it a bit later on today, if I have time. Best wishes, Hydriotaphia 14:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Your the one that mentioned relevance, and Rehnquist is the one who mentioned law enforcement issues (murder, rape) when writing the opinion of the Court.Jimmuldrow 14:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
But you should get along just fine with the IP address guy.Jimmuldrow 14:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Less Truthiness would be more helpful.Jimmuldrow 15:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
From
- it's "original research" to
- it's not original research but it's not relevant to
- it's relevant but it's not the emphasis of the Court
- unless you count what Rehnquist said about murder and rape.Jimmuldrow 15:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Not only does never admitting you're wrong not mean you're right, it's one more huge problem on top of the rest. Especially if you insist on helping.Jimmuldrow 15:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Again, I'm sorry that I seem to have offended you; I hope you won't get even angrier if I say this, but I do wonder whether you might want to step away from this article for just a little while to cool down. Best wishes, Hydriotaphia 18:31, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I've revised the Equal Protection Clause section in keeping with our discussions here. Tell me if you have any objections to what I've done. Best, Hydriotaphia 18:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Your additions to the revised section are very good, it seems to me. I'm so glad you mentioned Katzenbach v. Morgan and how Boerne (quite out of the blue!) replaced its older standard with "congruence and proportionality." Best, Hydriotaphia 01:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I've now revised the Commerce Clause section to stress the reasoning the court set forth in its opinion. I believe the article is now a bit more accurate and informative now. I wonder if we shouldn't modify the sequence of this article, and discuss the Commerce Clause before discussing the Equal Protection Clause. That is, after all, the sequence of the majority opinion itself. Also, one final thing. The last section says the decision was seen as a part of a larger set of states' rights decisions "by both the Court and the press." I'm not sure whether we can justifiably say that the court saw it this way. The majority certainly didn't say anything like that. I certainly agree that it is part of a larger line of so-called "federalism" decisions striking down civil rights statutes, but I don't think the Morrison court acknowledged it as such. Best, Hydriotaphia 16:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, you did add a lot of good information. Much, much better than the old stuff that was there the first time I looked at it. ALthough, if I say so myself, even I did better than that.
At least you're not dumb. An opinionated son of a gun, but that's alright.Jimmuldrow 19:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Complaining and failing to enforce the laws
The article was recently reverted here without comment, and I disagree with the reversion. First, consider this paragraph:
“ | Rehnquist's opinions on the issue of states' rights dates back at least as far as a 1957 article he wrote for U. S. News and World Report, in which he (complained)(asserted) that Court clerks have a "liberal" bias about "expansion of federal power at the expense of State power." | ” |
The word "asserted" has a neutral point of view, whereas the word "complained" does not. Why insist on the word "complained"? Even if Rehnquist whined and moaned about this issue, still Wikipedia should say "asserted" because this is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia rather than an editorial. If a person is correct about something, then it's unusual to say that they are "complaining." What could possibly be wrong with using the word "asserted"?
The following passage was also reverted without comment, and I disagree with that too:
“ | In other words, the Rehnquist wing of the Court defined the failure of states to (equally enforce their own) (enact) laws as state inaction, whereas dissenting justices defined the same thing as state action, and rejected the majority's assertion that unequal (enforcement) (enactment) of the laws was consistent with equal protection of the laws. | ” |
Justices Breyer and Stevens criticized the states for not providing sufficient (or any) remedies. As I previously explained in the comments, failure to provide remedies means a failure to enact laws, not a failure to enforce laws already enacted. This was not a situation where the state had laws on its books and was refusing to enforce those laws to protect a particular class of people. Is there any serious disagreement?Ferrylodge 15:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- "Asserted" is fine, but the justices did mention studies indicating that states didn't equally enforce existing laws, which is why Rehnquist mentioned his own rather broad interpretation of Civil Rights Cases (broad in that it went beyond the holding of the case) to indicate that "There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves."Jimmuldrow 23:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- You say that "the justices did mention studies indicating that states didn't equally enforce existing laws". Where did the justices do that? More importantly, the legislation that Congress passed did not order any state to enforce its existing laws, but rather gave new remedies to private parties.Ferrylodge 00:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
The following is in addition to Rehnquist's understanding of the government's argument mentioned above.
Here you go:
Souter's opinion
“Less than 1 percent of all [rape] victims have collected damages.” S. Rep. No. 102—197, at 44 (citing report by Jury Verdict Research, Inc.). “ ‘[A]n individual who commits rape has only about 4 chances in 100 of being arrested, prosecuted, and found guilty of any offense.’ ” S. Rep. No. 101—545, at 33, n. 30 (quoting H. Feild & L. Bienen, Jurors and Rape: A Study in Psychology and Law 95 (1980)). “Almost one-quarter of convicted rapists never go to prison and another quarter received sentences in local jails where the average sentence is 11 months.” S. Rep. No. 103—138, at 38 (citing Majority Staff Report of Senate Committee on the Judiciary, The Response to Rape: Detours on the Road to Equal Justice, 103d Cong., 1st Sess., 2 (Comm. Print 1993)). The National Association of Attorneys General supported the Act unanimously, see Violence Against Women: Victims of the System, Hearing on S. 15 before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 102d Cong., 1st Sess., 37—38 (1991), and Attorneys General from 38 States urged Congress to enact the Civil Rights Remedy, representing that “the current system for dealing with violence against women is inadequate,” see Crimes of Violence Motivated by Gender, Hearing before the Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional Rights of the House Committee on the Judiciary, 103d Cong., 1st Sess., 34—36 (1993). It was against this record of failure at the state level that the Act was passed to provide the choice of a federal forum in place of the state-court systems found inadequate to stop gender-biased violence. See Women and Violence, Hearing before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 101st Cong., 2d Sess., 2 (1990) (statement of Sen. Biden) (noting importance of federal forum).21 The Act accordingly offers a federal civil rights remedy aimed exactly at violence against women, as an alternative to the generic state tort causes of action found to be poor tools of action by the state task forces. See S. Rep. No. 101—545, at 45 (noting difficulty of fitting gender-motivated crimes into common-law categories). As the 1993 Senate Report put it, “The Violence Against Women Act is intended to respond both to the underlying attitude that this violence is somehow less serious than other crime and to the resulting failure of our criminal justice system to address such violence. Its goals are both symbolic and practical … .” S. Rep. No. 103—138, at 38.
Breyer's opinion
The majority adds that Congress found that the problem of inadequacy of state remedies “does not exist in all States, or even most States.” Ante, at 27. But Congress had before it the task force reports of at least 21 States documenting constitutional violations. And it made its own findings about pervasive gender-based stereotypes hampering many state legal systems, sometimes unconstitutionally so. See, e.g., S. Rep. No. 103—138, pp. 38, 41—42, 44—47 (1993); S. Rep. No. 102—197, pp. 39, 44—49 (1991); H. R. Conf. Rep. No. 103—711, p. 385 (1994). The record nowhere reveals a congressional finding that the problem “does not exist” elsewhere. Why can Congress not take the evidence before it as evidence of a national problem? This Court has not previously held that Congress must document the existence of a problem in every State prior to proposing a national solution. And the deference this Court gives to Congress’ chosen remedy under §5, Flores, supra, at 536, suggests that any such requirement would be inappropriate.
Rehnquist's opinion
Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action. There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves. The statement of Representative Garfield in the House and that of Senator Sumner in the Senate are representative:
“[T]he chief complaint is not that the laws of the State are unequal, but that even where the laws are just and equal on their face, yet, by a systematic maladministration of them, or a neglect or refusal to enforce their provisions, a portion of the people are denied equal protection under them.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 1st Sess., App. 153 (1871) (statement of Rep. Garfield).
“The Legislature of South Carolina has passed a law giving precisely the rights contained in your ‘supplementary civil rights bill.’ But such a law remains a dead letter on her statute-books, because the State courts, comprised largely of those whom the Senator wishes to obtain amnesty for, refuse to enforce it.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 2d Sess., 430 (1872) (statement of Sen. Sumner).
- Material about what Congress was attempting to do, and rephrasing how the two sides in Morrison defined the case, is not "Background on Rehnquist". That kind of stuff belongs in another section of the article, if it belongs in the article at all.Ferrylodge 04:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Ferrylodge's comment immediately above. I would go a bit further, though. I would suggest that the section titled "Background on Rehnquist" be removed. It's interesting information, to be sure, but I think it belongs in his biography only. Here's my reasoning. To say that the pre-judicial writings which the section cites are relevant to this article, you must infer that these writings – more than 40 years old at the time Morrison was decided – influenced Rehnquist's opinion for the Court. (And I emphasize "opinion for the Court". Rehnquist authored it, to be sure, but he was writing for five Justices.) But an inference like this seems to me a clear example of original research. If one wishes to make a connection between the pre-judicial writings and Morrison, I think the only permissible way to do it is to cite a reliable source which itself makes that connection. Essentially, I'm concerned that if the "Background on Rehnquist" section is included here, it'll become OK to include biographical speculation in every article about Supreme Court decisions. Best, Hydriotaphia 14:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
My original intention was to have no speculation at all, but merely allow Rehnquist to speak for himself. But people kept messing with it.Jimmuldrow 01:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Big Problems With This Article
I agree that the section on “Background on Rehnquist” should be removed, for the reasons explained by Hydriotaphia. It should be enough to link to the main article about Rehnquist. Attributing the Court’s Morrison decision to things like Rehnquist’s US New piece 50 years earlier is really too much like original research, and gives undue weight. I’m sure that Morrison is at least as attributable to its prior decision in Lopez, not to mention the framers’ design that we have not just a national government but also state governments that are somewhat independent of the national government in certain matters.
I’m also very concerned that Jimmuldrow is on the verge of an edit war here, and is misconstruing the Court’s holding in Morrison. We need to get this straightened out. It is not appropriate to delete stuff like the following from the article:
“While justices agreed on this aspect of the state action doctrine, the Rehnquist wing of the Court preferred a much broader interpretation of this doctrine: ‘the language and purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment place certain limitations on THE MANNER in which Congress may attack discriminatory conduct' (emphasis added)."
Thus, the Court was not saying that there was no discrimination by state actors in this case, but rather was saying that Congress was attacking it the wrong MANNER.
Rehnquist was not arguing “that his interpretation of Civil Rights Cases wouldn't allow laws against state actors.” Rehnquist was saying that the Civil Rights Cases involved discriminatory enforcement of laws on the books (just like in Morrison), and that Congress tried in the Civil Rights Cases to remedy the state action by attacking private parties INSTEAD of by attacking the state actors.
Rehnquist was not purporting to “interprete (sic) states that don't equally enforce their own laws as state inaction.” He was saying there was state action just like in the Civil Rights cases, but that Congress attacked it in the wrong MANNER.
It is incorrect to say that “As Rehnquist mentioned before, aiming laws at state officials would also be unconstitutional because of the 'Civil Rights Cases' precedent.” The Civil Rights Cases precedent DID NOT INVOLVE aiming federal laws at state officials, nor did Rehnquist say otherwise.
Thus, it is also incorrect to say: “According to the Rehnquist wing of the Court, the fact that many states don't equally enforce laws protecting women from rape and violence equally with other laws does not allow an equal protection of the laws reason for federal interference.”
Additionally, the following material about the Katzenbach case is unnecessary and misleading, because the Morrison decision did not alter or change the precedent from Katzenbach whatsoever (if the Katzenbach precedent had been changed, it was changed in Boerne rather than in Morrison):
“The Rehnquist Court’s congruence and proportionality theory replaced the ratchet theory advanced in Katzenbach v. Morgan (1966). The ratchet theory held that Congress could ratchet up civil rights beyond what the Court had recognized, but that Congress could not ratchet down judicially recognized rights. The Rehnquist Court's congruence and proportionality theory made it easier to revive older precedents for preventing Congress from going too far in enforcing equal protection of the laws.”
As mentioned, this description is also slanted. In Boerne, Justice Kennedy argued that this description of Katzenbach “is not a necessary interpretation, however, or even the best one.”Ferrylodge 16:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
We're all trying to solve problems, not cause them
Rehnquist addressed TWO separate issues. NOT ONE BUT TWO. While Flores referred to private actors, Rehnquist's interpretation of Civil Rights Cases meant equal protection would not apply to unequal enforcement of the laws regardless. Again, read the following:
Rehnquist's opinion
Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action. There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves. The statement of Representative Garfield in the House and that of Senator Sumner in the Senate are representative:
“[T]he chief complaint is not that the laws of the State are unequal, but that even where the laws are just and equal on their face, yet, by a systematic maladministration of them, or a neglect or refusal to enforce their provisions, a portion of the people are denied equal protection under them.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 1st Sess., App. 153 (1871) (statement of Rep. Garfield).
“The Legislature of South Carolina has passed a law giving precisely the rights contained in your ‘supplementary civil rights bill.’ But such a law remains a dead letter on her statute-books, because the State courts, comprised largely of those whom the Senator wishes to obtain amnesty for, refuse to enforce it.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 2d Sess., 430 (1872) (statement of Sen. Sumner).
I have been accurate a few times before, so let's both try to make sure we're not missing something.Jimmuldrow 17:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, Rehnquist was arguing here that there WAS discriminatory state action in both the Civil Rights Cases and in Morrison. And, he was saying that Congress attacked that discriminatory state action the wrong way in both cases. It was the MANNER in which Congress attacked the discrimination that was the problem in both cases. If Congress had instead given aggrieved parties a right to sue their state for lax and discriminatory enforcement of the state's criminal laws, then Rehnquist had no problem with such a suit. The Court has said repeatedly that the 14th Amdt did abrogate sovereign immunity.Ferrylodge 17:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
What Rehnquist said about private vs. state actors was with reference to Flores, which was a separate issue. For both private and state actors, Rehnquist also repeatedly said that the equal protection clause applied in very specific circumstances which clearly did not include states refusing to enforce their own laws. When did Rehnquist say that state actors could be sued for that specific reason? Find a quote for that if I'm missing something, but you might be confusing this with what Rehnquist said about Flores, which is a different matter.
Peace.Jimmuldrow 18:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- The quote from the case that you recently deleted was: "the language and purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment place certain limitations on THE MANNER in which Congress may attack discriminatory conduct" (emphasis added). In contrast, you have been arguing that the Morrison Court somehow held that Congress may not attack the discriminatory conduct at issue in any manner at all. Where did Rehnquist say that? Where did Rehnquist say that Congress couldn't allow women to sue a state that neglects to prosecute a serial rapist? The VAWA didn't authorize any action whatsoever against a state, despite the fact the the 14th Amendment is obviously phrased as a limitation on states, rather than on private citizens.Ferrylodge 18:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Again, the MANNER (dealing with the issue of state vs. private actors) was discussed with reference to Flores. A different, separate issue was Civil Rights Cases (or Rehnquist's understanding of it) that dealt with the CIRCUMSTANCES under which the equal protection clause could override the rights of states. These are two separate issues. For the Civil Rights Cases issue, Rehnquist said the equal protection clause would apply only if the written law was unequal in itself, without regard to whether the law was enforced equally or not.
Again, there are not one but two issues here. Flores requires the VAWA law to be aimed at state actors, as opposed to private actors. As an additional and separate issue, Civil Rights Cases, according to Rehnquist, additionally requires that VAWA address a state law that applies more to some than others with regard to the way it's written, and without regard to unequal enforcement. So Rehnquist mentioned NOT ONE BUT TWO hurdles that had to be cleared before equal protection would apply to the states. Lets not mix apples and oranges, or Flores and Civil Rights Cases.
In other words, Flores DID NOT REPLACE Civil Rights Cases but was and ADDITIONAL reason on top of what Rehnquist said about Civil Rights Cases. WHETHER VAWA WAS AIMED AT STATE ACTORS OR NOT, THE CIVIL RIGHTS CASES issues would still apply.Jimmuldrow 18:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Remember also that one point disputed between the majority and the minority was whether the failure of states to equally enforce their own laws qualified as state action (the minority view), or state inaction (the majority view). According to the majority, unequal enforcement of the laws qualifies as state inaction and therefore the equal protection clause does not apply, and again this is an additional and separate issue from whether VAWA should apply to state and private actors.Jimmuldrow 19:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, you say, “According to the majority, unequal enforcement of the laws qualifies as state inaction and therefore the equal protection clause does not apply.” However, you’re not quoting anything, and you’re mistaken. Rehnquist very specifically said: “Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such STATE ACTION.” Rehnquist DISAGREED with petitioners. He argued that there WAS state action in the Civil Rights cases.
- The Morrison Court also said: "As our cases have established, state-sponsored gender discrimination violates equal protection unless it serves important governmental objectives...." The Court NEVER hinted that the state-sponsored gender discrimination in the Morrison case serves important governmental objectives. The Court continued: "the language and purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment place certain limitations on the manner in which Congress may attack discriminatory conduct. These limitations are necessary to prevent the Fourteenth Amendment from obliterating the Framers' carefully crafted balance of power between the States and the National Government."
- You say, "Rehnquist said the equal protection clause would apply only if the written law was unequal in itself." That is just incorrect. You aren't quoting anything, and are just making a bald assertion. Regardless of whether a law is being discriminatorly enforced, or instead is unequal on its face, state-sponsored gender discrimination violates equal protection unless it serves important governmental objectives. That's what the Morrison Court said. The only issue is the manner in which Congress can attack that discrimination. The minority in Morrison argued that, since there was state action, Congress can circumvent the states and directly provide remedies to private parties. The majority in Morrison disagreed, and held that the states cannot be circumvented by Congress. The solicitor general argued the Civil Rights Cases weren't applicable because the state statutes in the Civil Rights cases did not bespeak equality, and Rehnquist countered that those old statutes did bespeak equality; therefore, the Court concluded that --- just like in the Civil Rights cases --- Congress had to authorize lawsuits against the states rather than against private individuals. The Morrison Court never suggested that the states could freely engage in state-sponsored gender discrimination.Ferrylodge 19:17, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Two big issues here. First, Civil Rights Cases is IN ADDITION TO Flores, NOT A REPLACEMENT. Second, you keep saying I didn't mention quotes from the majority opinion indicating that, in Rehnquist's opinion, Civil Rights Cases does NOT define state action as a state's refusal to enforce its own laws. If you missed this before, here it is again:Jimmuldrow 20:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Rehnquist's opinion
Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action. There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves. The statement of Representative Garfield in the House and that of Senator Sumner in the Senate are representative:
“[T]he chief complaint is not that the laws of the State are unequal, but that even where the laws are just and equal on their face, yet, by a systematic maladministration of them, or a neglect or refusal to enforce their provisions, a portion of the people are denied equal protection under them.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 1st Sess., App. 153 (1871) (statement of Rep. Garfield).
“The Legislature of South Carolina has passed a law giving precisely the rights contained in your ‘supplementary civil rights bill.’ But such a law remains a dead letter on her statute-books, because the State courts, comprised largely of those whom the Senator wishes to obtain amnesty for, refuse to enforce it.” Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 2d Sess., 430 (1872) (statement of Sen. Sumner).
Rehnquist's interpretation of Civil Rights Cases that says "There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves" indicates that, according to Rehnquist, what Congress was calling state action had been defined as state inaction in the Civil Rights Cases, according to Rehnquist. The confusion might be from the fact that Rehnquist disagreed not on the state action principal in theory, but on how to define it. In case you missed it, the Civil Rights Cases allowed "discrimination against newly freed slaves", and Rehnquist's interpretation of this is that laws that aren't enforced equally don't count as state action. Jimmuldrow 20:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, if this is all you've got, then you haven't got anything to show that, as you put it, Rehnquist believed unequal enforcement of the laws qualifies as state inaction and therefore the equal protection clause does not apply. The quote you provided shows the exact opposite: that the Morrison majority did view unequal enforcement of the laws as state ACTION, not inaction. Look at your quote:
- ”Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action. [Rehnquist then goes on to argue the last point.] There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination [i.e. unequal enforcement] against newly freed slaves.”
- Where in this quote does Rehnquist say that his interpretation of Civil Rights Cases wouldn't allow laws against state actors? Where does it portray states that don't equally enforce their own laws as state inaction? Where does it say that aiming laws at state officials would be unconstitutional because of the 'Civil Rights Cases' precedent? Where does it not allow an equal protection of the laws reason for federal interference?
- The Civil Rights Cases did NOT allow state actors to discriminate against newly freed slaves. The statement that, "There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves" does NOT indicate that, according to Rehnquist, what Congress was calling state action had been defined as state inaction in the Civil Rights Cases. Instead, it indicates that state action had been attacked the wrong way by Congress, which had attacked private actors instead of attacking the administrators of the laws. This is a quote from the Civil Rights Cases:
- "the legislation which congress is authorized to adopt ... is not general legislation upon the rights of the citizen, but corrective legislation; that is, such as may be necessary and proper for counteracting such laws as the states may adopt OR enforce, and which by the amendment they are prohibited from making or enforcing, OR such acts and proceedings as the states may commit or take, and which by the amendment they are prohibited from committing or taking. It is not necessary for us to state, if we could, what legislation would be proper for congress to adopt" (emphasis added).Ferrylodge 20:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Forget state actors for this part of it for the moment. That issue is and ADDITION TO, NOT A REPLACEMENT OF how to define state action. Refusal of states to equally enforce laws was called by two opposite and contradicting terms, state action and state inaction. I think that’s where the confusion lies.
Quoting from Civil Rights Cases is less relevant to Morrison than quoting Rehnquist's interpretation of Civil Rights Cases. It's ok for you to agree with the dissenters in Morrison, but you also need to read Rehnquist’s version of the story, which is the opposite. Both sides agreed with Civil Rights Cases. Both sides agreed with the state action doctrine. so why did they vote on opposite sides on this issue?
DIFFERENCES IN INTERPRETATION. Read again.Jimmuldrow 20:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- You ask, "so why did they vote on opposite sides on this issue?" They all agreed that there was possibly an Equal Protection violation, and the disagreement was about the MANNER in which Congress may remedy it. What part of this explanation do you still disagree with?Ferrylodge 20:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
The
MANNER MANNER MANNER MANNER MANNER is a
SEPARATE SEPARATE SEPARATE SEPARATE SEPARATE issue from
opposite interpretations of how to define state action.
This was an issue for Rehnquist
REGARDLESS AND IN ADDITION TO -
REGARDLESS AND IN ADDITION TO -
REGARDLESS AND IN ADDITION TO -
REGARDLESS AND IN ADDITION TO -
REGARDLESS AND IN ADDITION TO what was said about private vs. state actors.
Rehnquist made it very clear that the state actor issue was an add on in addition to his very clear contention that unequal unforcement of laws is STATE INACTION NOT STATE ACTION.Jimmuldrow 21:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
When Rehnquist switched from state action to private vs. public actors, there was a "But even if that distinction were valid" (for defining state action) in between. The state vs. private actors issue was ADDITIONAL to the other, NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR IT. If you keep mixing this up, you need to read more carefully.Jimmuldrow 21:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, you’ve said over and over again that, according to the Morrison Court, "unequal enforcement of laws is state inaction, not state action." Why not stick to what the justices actually said? The word "inaction" was never mentioned by any justice on either side.
- The only thing you quote from the Court's actual opinion is something that says the exact opposite. Rehnquist wrote: "Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such STATE ACTION. There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981....” Thus, your key quote says the exact opposite of what you say it says. Rehnquist argued AGAINST the position that there was no indication of state action, by citing evidence of unequal enforcement of facially equal statutes.
- Moreover, the Morrison Court said that, “state-sponsored gender discrimination violates equal protection unless it serves important governmental objectives...." The Morrison Court did not give the slightest hint that the congressional findings of state-sponsored gender discrimination were incorrect. On the contrary, the Court said that the congressional findings were “supported by a voluminous congressional record.” It is preposterous for you to insist that the Morrison Court's position was that the gender discrimination at issue in that case was no violation of equal protection. Not even the dissents suggested that that was the Court's position.Ferrylodge 22:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
When Rehnquist said:
"Petitioners alternatively argue that, unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action. There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves."
He was saying that those he disagreed with (petitioners) claim that Morrison was different from Civil Rights Cases in that they (petitioners who Rehnquist disagrees with) allege that "unlike the situation in the Civil Rights Cases, here there has been gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities, whereas in those cases there was no indication of such state action." By contrast, Rehnquist said "There is abundant evidence, however, to show that the Congresses that enacted the Civil Rights Acts of 1871 and 1875 had a purpose similar to that of Congress in enacting §13981: There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves."
In other word, petitioners thought that the Civil Rights Cases didn't apply because of the "gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities" they thought distinguished Morrison from Civil Rights Cases. By contrast, Rehnquist said this situation was addressed by the Civil Rights Cases precedent because "There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves."
Rehnquist made it clear that he thought the Civil Rights Cases argument was seperate from the issue of state vs. private actors when he said "But even if that distinction were valid" (about the petioners argument for defining state action) before subsequently giving the additional and independent argument about state vs. private actors.
I did read what Rehnquist wrote. And once again, you missed a spot.Jimmuldrow 23:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
This isn't the first or second or third time you argued endlessly and then found out you missed a spot.Jimmuldrow 23:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
It sounds as if you repeatedly mistake Rehnquist's summary of the opinions of petitioners that he disagrees with for Rehnquist's own opinions because of your bias.Jimmuldrow 23:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Given what's been said up to now, remember that the statement "But even if that distinction were valid" contains the words "but" and "if".Jimmuldrow 23:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
After all the times you were wrong before, why didn't you read more carefully before repeating the same stuff over and over this time?Jimmuldrow 23:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
When Rehnquist was arguing against the assertion that "gender-based disparate treatment by state authorities" distinguished Morrison from the Civil Rights Cases, he very clearly sought to point out that what the petioners thought was "disparate treatment" that wasn't interpreted as state inaction by Civil Rights Cases was indeed interpreted that way by the Civil Rights Cases Court based on Rehnquist's private research on statements made by radical Republicans who supported the Civil Rights bills in question.Jimmuldrow 23:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, I've certainly been mistaken no more often then you, so let's leave aside the snarky comments, please. And as for bias, I think you have enough for both of us. Let’s try to focus on facts.
- You say Rehnquist was arguing that disparate gender treatment should be considered just as constitutional as the state-sponsored discrimination that Rehnquist saw in the Civil Rights cases. But that's not what he said. Rehnquist never suggested any disagreement with petitioners’ contention that there was discriminatory state action in Morrison. And he was very clear that “state-sponsored ... discrimination violates equal protection unless it serves important governmental objectives...."
- You quote Rehnquist’s statement: "But even if that distinction were valid". Rehnquist was saying, for the sake of argument, that perhaps the petitioners were correct that there was no "state action" in the Civil Rights Cases (i.e. Rehnquist was supposing that his "private research" was not dispositive), and so Rehnquist was supposing that the Civil Rights Cases could be distinguished from the case at issue (Morrison). Either way, Rehnquist was saying that there WAS state action in Morrison. Why do you keep insisting that Rehnquist denied there was state action in Morrison?Ferrylodge 00:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Rehnquist didn't say there was "state sponsored" discrimination. If Rehnquist agreed with the government when he mentioned that "There were state laws on the books bespeaking equality of treatment, but in the administration of these laws there was discrimination against newly freed slaves", he would have been writing with the dissenters instead of the others. This was an argument for the Morrison majority, not an argument against it. His point was that Civil Rights Cases DID allow unequal enforcement of laws where "disparate treatment" was the result. And Rehnquist WAS NOT UP TO THE PARAGRAPH ON STATE VS. PRIVATE ACTORS YET. And so neither are we, because to do so would not be encyclopedic. And yes, Rehnquist made it very clear that the private vs. state actor argument was IN ADDITION TO the rest.Jimmuldrow 01:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- Jim, if you honestly still believe that five justices wrote in Morrison that the equal protection clause does not apply to unequal enforcement of the laws, then you've got to explain yourself much more clearly. Pretend that I'm a complete idiot (I know that shouldn't be hard for you), and write a paragraph in this discussion page that explains your reasoning as clearly as you can. I very much doubt that I'll agree with you, but we'll see. It really seems absurd that the Supreme Court would ever say such a thing. How could they ever go out in public after saying that states can discriminate as much as they want as long as their laws look good on paper? It really makes no sense to me.Ferrylodge 01:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)