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:: {{re|91.122.13.30}} Yes, we are all aware of that. But, the part you don’t seem to understand, is that mentioning Calabasas randomly in this section does not fit the article at all, since it’s not mentioned anywhere else in the article, nor do any other sources cited in this section mention Calabasas. If you’d like to add something about Calabasas to the page, I think it needs to be done a different way -such as adding something along the lines of “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not.” Otherwise, this page is just contradicting itself. If you’re going to edit the page, don’t halfway do the job. [[User:Greeis6|Greeis6]] ([[User talk:Greeis6|talk]]) 19:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC) |
:: {{re|91.122.13.30}} Yes, we are all aware of that. But, the part you don’t seem to understand, is that mentioning Calabasas randomly in this section does not fit the article at all, since it’s not mentioned anywhere else in the article, nor do any other sources cited in this section mention Calabasas. If you’d like to add something about Calabasas to the page, I think it needs to be done a different way -such as adding something along the lines of “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not.” Otherwise, this page is just contradicting itself. If you’re going to edit the page, don’t halfway do the job. [[User:Greeis6|Greeis6]] ([[User talk:Greeis6|talk]]) 19:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC) |
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::: You have failed to provide any authoritative sources explicitly saying that Calabasas is not situated in the San Fernando Valley, so your proposed sentence, “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not”, is an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions unsupported attribution] prohibited by Wikipedia rules. —[[Special:Contributions/91.122.13.30|91.122.13.30]] ([[User talk:91.122.13.30|talk]]) 20:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC) |
::: You have failed to provide any authoritative sources explicitly saying that Calabasas is not situated in the San Fernando Valley, so your proposed sentence, “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not”, is an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions unsupported attribution] prohibited by Wikipedia rules. —[[Special:Contributions/91.122.13.30|91.122.13.30]] ([[User talk:91.122.13.30|talk]]) 20:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:::: {{re|91.122.13.30}} I’m honestly beginning to believe you’re just a troll who has nothing better to do with their time. If we can’t come to consensus, either I, or someone else will be reverting the page back to the previous edits. The sources are sited all over the page, in addition to the interactive LA Times map located right beside the “Independent cities” section. [[User:Greeis6|Greeis6]] ([[User talk:Greeis6|talk]]) 21:03, 10 January 2022 (UTC) |
Revision as of 21:03, 10 January 2022
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Recent reversion
I reverted this: In 1909 the Suburban Homes Company, a syndicate led by H. J. Whitley, general manager of the Board of Control, along with Harry Chandler, H. G. Otis, M. H. Sherman and O. F. Brandt purchased 48,000 acres of the Farming and Milling Company for $2,500,000. [1] Henry E. Huntington, extended his Pacific Electric Railway (Red Cars) through the Valley to Owensmouth (now Canoga Park). The Suburban Home Company laid out plans for roads and the towns of Van Nuys, Reseda (Marian) and Canoga Park (Owensmouth). The rural areas were annexed into the city of Los Angeles in 1915.[2] [3]On April 2, 1915 H. J. Whitley purchased the Suburban Home Company so that he would have complete control for finishing the development. [4]
Whatever new information there is should be inserted into the text above where the topic is first treated. As well, the data in the last sentence looks like WP:Original research, taken from something at the UCLA library. See WP:Bold, revert, discuss. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:02, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ Mulholland, Catherine. The Owensmouth Baby - The Making of the San Fernando Valley Santa Susana Press, California, 1987; p. 18-20.
- ^ George L. Henderson (1 February 2003). California and the Fictions of Capital. Temple University Press. p. 199. ISBN 978-1-59213-198-3. Retrieved 8 August 2012.
- ^ Judith R. Raftery (1992). Land of Fair Promise: Politics and Reform in Los Angeles Schools 1885 – 1941. Stanford University Press. p. 112. ISBN 978-0-8047-1930-8. Retrieved 7 May 2013.
- ^ Special Collections-UCLA Library, Retrieved December 20, 1990, box 7.
Population centers
The current list of Population centers is arbitrary. How is Hidden Hills a population center? The following are the approximate populations (in thousands) of other communities here in the SFV. And Hidden Hills is far from the center geographically.
Thousands | Community |
---|---|
136 | Van Nuys |
104 | Pacoima |
78 | North Hollywood |
76 | Sun Valley |
70 | Panorama City |
63 | Woodland Hills |
60 | Northridge |
57 | North Hills |
41 | Chatsworth |
34 | Studio City |
25 | Porter Ranch |
2 | Hidden Hills |
The preceding is not complete; it is the communities I could remenber. Sam Tomato (talk) 20:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Adult industry
Chatsworth and the SFV in general are considered to be the Adult Entertainment center of the world. I do not know what to use as the authority for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam Tomato (talk • contribs) 20:26, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Demographics
Either I do not understand the authority (American Fact-Finder results for San Fernando Valley CCD, Los Angeles County, California) used for demographics or the person posting that authority does not understand. As best as I understand that, everything for race (the Race subject) is for households, not persons. Regardless of whether Race counts people or households, under One race, White is 64% and I do not see any Hispanic under One race. I was going to revise the data with 2017 data but I think the relevant data is of households, not people. Sam Tomato (talk) 17:08, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Popular culture
The early TV sitcom The Real McCoys, about a family of West Virginia hillbillies who had moved to the San Fernando Valley to find a better way of life, provided the rest of the nation with a (slanted) view of life in the Valley when it was still partially agriculturally based. Another contemporary influence on the view of the Valley by Americans far from it was the recurring Red Skelton sketch character "San Fernando Red", a comically corrupt real estate agent. Something referring to this popular view probably should be reflected in the text. 2600:1004:B142:DAF8:BDD9:A9E0:F9FD:F6CA (talk) 10:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
Independent Cities
As previously discussed, LA times classifies the San Fernando Valley as containing 3 incorporated cities - Los Angeles, Burbank, and San Fernando. Calabasas is classified as being part of the Santa Monica Mountains - and geographically, I think we can all agree that Calabasas is indeed located in mountains instead of being part of the valley. Greeis6 (talk) 04:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
The map located right beside the “independent cities” section doesn’t highlight Calabasas at all! Nor do any of the other citations in the article. Calabasas also isn’t mentioned anywhere in the article. Nor is the SFV mentioned at all on Calabasas’ wiki page. Greeis6 (talk) 19:02, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Nickname
The nickname for the SFV is “The Valley.” I’m not understanding why a user is trying to edit the page to say “the Valley”. This makes the page look like the nickname for the SFV is “Valley”, but the nickname is indeed “The Valley.”. Please explain your reasoning. Greeis6 (talk) 04:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- Rather than being a nickname, the Valley is a short form of the Valley of San Fernando, just like the City is a short form of the City of London. Toponymic nicknames, too, are written without capitalizing the first letter of the definite article, e.g. the City of London is also colloquially known as the Square Mile. 92.100.47.168 (talk) 05:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
While i understand your perspective, in Los Angeles “The Valley” is actually used as a nickname for the San Fernando Valley. Hence why the San Gabriel Valley is not referred to as “The Valley.” That nickname, in its entirety, is solely used for the SFV, it’s not a shortened version of it. Also, please use “Independant cities” sections of this talk page to discuss Calabasas. Thanks Greeis6 (talk) 13:39, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- It is written as the Valley in authoritative print publications (official documents, books, large magazines) perused by highly skilled proofreaders. 178.66.148.152 (talk) 14:33, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
In a nickname sense, if you write “the Valley” it looks like you’re saying that the nickname is only “Valley.” Writing & bolding “The Valley” shows that “The” is included in the nickname. This is how the page was originally written, let’s wait for another user’s input before making this edit. Greeis6 (talk) 14:37, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- No, let's wait for you to provide superauthoritative sources before reverting the current authoritatively sourced version. 178.66.148.152 (talk) 15:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
You are not being very civil in your edits. Just because you think you’re right, doesn’t mean the page should be written that way. I have not reverted your other edits, only the ones in regards to the nickname. Again, since I disagree with your edits, the civil way to handle the matter is to leave the page as it was originally written (“The Valley”), until an admin gives input. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility Greeis6 (talk) 15:29, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Greeis6: Please provide sources showing that "The" is capitalized in common usage. A quick look at the references suggest that it should be lowercase—including the source right after the nickname! —C.Fred (talk) 18:14, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- I have also escalated this to a WikiProject to get broader input. —C.Fred (talk) 18:24, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- If “The” isn’t capital, that implies that the nickname is just “Valley”. He’s also removing the bold from the word “The” in “The Valley”, which further makes it looks like it’s just a called “Valley”. For example, in “the City of San Fernando” it is just referred to as “City of San Fernando.” The article is not part of the name, therefore, should not be bold or capital. However, in the case with “The Valley”, the article is actually part of the name, therefore, it should be written as “The Valley”. Also, other valleys in the Los Angeles area, including the San Gabriel Valley and Santa Clarita Valley, are not referred to as “The Valley”, since this nickname is solely for the San Fernando Valley. Greeis6 (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Oh FFS - is this going to be another lame "The Beatles/the Beatles" dispute, with edit-warring and horrendously disproportionate nastiness? Everybody needs to take a step back. Acroterion (talk) 18:51, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
@Acroterion: It’s not that big of a deal whether or not it’s capital, but I think we can all agree that “the” should be in bold, since that shows that ‘’’the valley’’’ (in its entirety) is another name for ‘’’San Fernando Valley’’’. I don’t want to edit war, I want to reach consensus. And in regards to Calabasas, many many months ago when this page was edited, we had already discussed and agreed on removing Calabasas, Hidden Hills, and Glendale from this page. The map located right beside the “independent cities” section doesn’t highlight Calabasas at all, and a photo of Calabasas clearly shows it is in mountains and not within the valley. Greeis6 (talk) 19:18, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- Than don't edit-war. It's your choice. We have noticeboards for disruptive behavior and for disputes of this kind. Acroterion (talk) 19:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- I've looked at some recent examples, and "the Valley" is what I've found. Do it yourself. Start here: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-16/valley-secession-jeff-brain-clouthub-anti-twitter There are other examples, too. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:22, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- You don't see "pitching The Valley cityhood," you see "pitching Valley cityhood." BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- I've looked at some recent examples, and "the Valley" is what I've found. Do it yourself. Start here: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-16/valley-secession-jeff-brain-clouthub-anti-twitter There are other examples, too. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:22, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
@BeenAroundAWhile: Okay, then let's agree on lowercasing "the". Can we all agree on keeping "the Valley" in bold? Greeis6 (talk) 22:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Protected edit request on 10 January 2022
Remove Calabasas from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Fernando_Valley#Incorporated_cities_(independent)%5B1%5D Some sources say Calabasas is part of the valley, whereas others do not. However, the sources on this wikipedia page, Calabasas’ wikipedia page, as well as the external sources in the article, and the map located right in this section, does not include Calabasas, so I think it’s better left out, to avoid confusion from different sources. Greeis6 (talk) 17:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- The official website of the City of Calabasas: "Incorporated in 1991, the City of Calabasas is 13.3 square miles in size and is located 22 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles. Situated in the southwestern region of the San Fernando Valley, Calabasas is tucked between the foothills of the Santa Monica and Santa Susanna Mountains." —91.122.13.30 (talk) 19:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- @91.122.13.30: Yes, we are all aware of that. But, the part you don’t seem to understand, is that mentioning Calabasas randomly in this section does not fit the article at all, since it’s not mentioned anywhere else in the article, nor do any other sources cited in this section mention Calabasas. If you’d like to add something about Calabasas to the page, I think it needs to be done a different way -such as adding something along the lines of “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not.” Otherwise, this page is just contradicting itself. If you’re going to edit the page, don’t halfway do the job. Greeis6 (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- You have failed to provide any authoritative sources explicitly saying that Calabasas is not situated in the San Fernando Valley, so your proposed sentence, “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not”, is an unsupported attribution prohibited by Wikipedia rules. —91.122.13.30 (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- @91.122.13.30: I’m honestly beginning to believe you’re just a troll who has nothing better to do with their time. If we can’t come to consensus, either I, or someone else will be reverting the page back to the previous edits. The sources are sited all over the page, in addition to the interactive LA Times map located right beside the “Independent cities” section. Greeis6 (talk) 21:03, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- You have failed to provide any authoritative sources explicitly saying that Calabasas is not situated in the San Fernando Valley, so your proposed sentence, “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not”, is an unsupported attribution prohibited by Wikipedia rules. —91.122.13.30 (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- @91.122.13.30: Yes, we are all aware of that. But, the part you don’t seem to understand, is that mentioning Calabasas randomly in this section does not fit the article at all, since it’s not mentioned anywhere else in the article, nor do any other sources cited in this section mention Calabasas. If you’d like to add something about Calabasas to the page, I think it needs to be done a different way -such as adding something along the lines of “some sources claim Calabasas is part of the San Fernando Valley, whereas other ones do not.” Otherwise, this page is just contradicting itself. If you’re going to edit the page, don’t halfway do the job. Greeis6 (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC)