Sean.hoyland (talk | contribs) |
MagicKirin11 (talk | contribs) Correcting editing abuse from Sean Hoyland |
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This article lacks reliable sources and might actually qualify for WP:LIBEL. This is because it attributes some quotes to Omar Barghouti but provides no reliable sources. For instance, the source provided for the quote "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is a blog (http://engageonline.wordpress.com). Also, the quotes from the Criticisms section are from another unreliable source (http://www.opendemocracy.net). Furthermore, I tried looking for reliable third-party sources that attributes those quotes to Omar Barghouti and found none. The quote: "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is especially suspicious because of the PACBI statement on this topic explaining Omar Barghouti's decision to study at Tel Aviv University and defending it. [[Special:Contributions/130.64.134.240|130.64.134.240]] ([[User talk:130.64.134.240|talk]]) 01:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC) |
This article lacks reliable sources and might actually qualify for WP:LIBEL. This is because it attributes some quotes to Omar Barghouti but provides no reliable sources. For instance, the source provided for the quote "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is a blog (http://engageonline.wordpress.com). Also, the quotes from the Criticisms section are from another unreliable source (http://www.opendemocracy.net). Furthermore, I tried looking for reliable third-party sources that attributes those quotes to Omar Barghouti and found none. The quote: "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is especially suspicious because of the PACBI statement on this topic explaining Omar Barghouti's decision to study at Tel Aviv University and defending it. [[Special:Contributions/130.64.134.240|130.64.134.240]] ([[User talk:130.64.134.240|talk]]) 01:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC) |
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:I've added the Jewish Chronicle as a source for that statement. there are many more , in the Gruniard, etc... [[User:Momma's Little Helper|Momma's Little Helper]] ([[User talk:Momma's Little Helper|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 23:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
:I've added the Jewish Chronicle as a source for that statement. there are many more , in the Gruniard, etc... [[User:Momma's Little Helper|Momma's Little Helper]] ([[User talk:Momma's Little Helper|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 23:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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This article and one sided and does not mention Barghouti racism, this should be in the heading. http://hpmonitor.blogspot.com/2012/05/omar-barghout-is-racist.html.[[User:MagicKirin11|MagicKirin11]] ([[User talk:MagicKirin11|talk]]) 05:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC) |
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== Edit request on 9 May 2013 == |
== Edit request on 9 May 2013 == |
Revision as of 11:35, 2 December 2013
Biography: Science and Academia Start‑class | ||||||||||
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Palestine Start‑class Mid‑importance | ||||||||||
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Neutrality?
I edited this stub as requested. Can I challenge its neutrality? What can I do to help improve this? Bearian 22:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
This article was NPOV tagged by Bearian in March 2007. But neither Bearian nor anybody else has provided any reasoning for or against such a tag. I think after nearly 2 years of silence, we can consider the issue resolved by inaction. If nmoone comes forward adding some substance, I plan to remove that tag. Wefa (talk) 02:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
This article lacks reliable sources and might actually qualify for WP:LIBEL. This is because it attributes some quotes to Omar Barghouti but provides no reliable sources. For instance, the source provided for the quote "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is a blog (http://engageonline.wordpress.com). Also, the quotes from the Criticisms section are from another unreliable source (http://www.opendemocracy.net). Furthermore, I tried looking for reliable third-party sources that attributes those quotes to Omar Barghouti and found none. The quote: "My studies at Tel Aviv University are a personal matter and I have no interest in commenting" is especially suspicious because of the PACBI statement on this topic explaining Omar Barghouti's decision to study at Tel Aviv University and defending it. 130.64.134.240 (talk) 01:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- I've added the Jewish Chronicle as a source for that statement. there are many more , in the Gruniard, etc... Momma's Little Helper (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC).
This article and one sided and does not mention Barghouti racism, this should be in the heading. http://hpmonitor.blogspot.com/2012/05/omar-barghout-is-racist.html.MagicKirin11 (talk) 05:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Edit request on 9 May 2013
The phrase "After debunking several of his statements" is an unsupported assessment of the accuracy of a Daily News article itself and should be removed. Gnaevets2 (talk) 13:45, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- Done Removed the quoted phrase above. Left the rest as it's attributed to the Daily News. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 15:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Universities in the Palestinian Authority territories
At the end of the "Education" section of the article, it is claimed, in defense of Barghouti's studies at Tel Aviv University, that there are no opportunities for higher degrees in the Palestinian territories, and that if he did not study in Israel he would be excluded from higher studies altogether. (This ignores, however, that even he, the Palestinian leader of the academic BDS campaign and born in Qatar and educated in Egypt -- where there certainly are universities -- can in fact pursue academic degrees in Israel itself, which undermines the claims behind the entire campaign to boycott Israeli academic institutions.) It should be mentioned in the article in any case that there are some 14 universities in the West Bank and Gaza, some of quite good quality. See, for a full list (which could be cited in footnote 2 without further commentary), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_universities_and_colleges. This is an unquestionably reliable and satisfactory source to cite.122.107.228.214 (talk) 02:01, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
- Ten days have passed, and there has been absolutely no response from the editors of this locked article. This editorial silence, while still retaining the false declaration made by the Palestinian organization run by Barghouti justifying his attendance at an Israeli university, sufficiently demonstrates that this entire article is written from a BDS advocacy viewpoint, and does not preserve NPOV. It is strongly partisan, unfitting an encyclopedia article. Even the so-called "Criticism" section is an apologia for Barghouti, and manages to leave out any reference to critics of his forthright statements, made on many occasions, that the actual goal of his BDS program is the elimination of Israel, not peace at all. He is harshly critical of the Palestinian Authority leadership which at least publicly declares itself willing to enter into peace negotiations, and which supposedly supports a two-state solution. Barghouti has said numerous times that he is against peace negotiations, and wants only a one-state solution, namely the replacement of Israel with a Palestinian state. If there were any point in it, I would provide the references to his own statements, but I know that they will not be allowed into the actual article.122.107.228.214 (talk) 09:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- Unless you provide a reliable source that precisely supports the content you propose adding, nothing is going to happen. It's as simple as that. Wikipedia is not a reliable source (see WP:CIRCULAR), so your statement "This is an unquestionably reliable and satisfactory source to cite" is incorrect. Furthermore, editors are not allowed to carry out original research and synthesize content (see WP:OR), "you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented." There is no conspiracy of silence here. There is just your inaction and unfamiliarity with Wikipedia policy. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:15, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- PACBI ref was removed. We'd need a secondary source which reflects on PACBI position. Otherwise the ref does not appear worthy for inclusion. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 18:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- Anything that removes content from this article gets my support. I think the article needs to be 'stubified' and I may do that at some point. Much of it has been written by advocates, nationalists, sockpuppets and people with a conflict of interest. The views section is almost completely wiki editor sampling of primary sources. The criticism section is the usual pointless partisan crap that contaminates the encyclopedia. It's a good example of why Wikipedia shouldn't host articles about certain living people, especially Palestinians, because the content (and the people) can't be protected from the rampant dishonesty and POV pushing in the topic area. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
- If there is to be an end to rampant dishonesty, then, Sean, perhaps there will have to be a willingness to acknowledge what Omar Barghouti has actually said, and criticisms of him that have actually been made. So here are some suggestions for improvement of the article, particularly in the "Views" and "Criticism" sections, in which very much of both his most crucial views and criticism of them is simply absent. Barghouti has insisted, in some of his articles for a general readership, that he has no specific political goals for the BDS movement he heads (e.g., in in his opinion piece in The Guardian of August 12, 2010, "Besieging Israel's siege," at http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/12/besieging-israel-siege-palestinian-boycott). More often, he says he does not accept a two-state-solution (or therefore Israel's continued existence) but conceives his BDS campaign to be oriented to a one-state-solution, "a secular democratic state in the entire area of historic Palestine," as he puts it in his "Why is BDS a Moral Duty Today? A Response to Bernard-Henri Levy," Huffington Post, February 1, 2011, at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-barghouti/why-is-bds-a-moral-duty-t_b_816990.html ). This single Palestine will be created by the "Right of Return" influx of millions of Palestinians into the territory presently constituting Israel. Another article affirming these goals is his December 12-14 2003 article, on Counterpunch.org, "Relative Humanity, the essential Obstacle to a Just Peace in Palestine," at: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/12/12/relative-humanity-the-essential-obstacle-to-a-just-peace-in-palestine/ . In this article he hails the bloodshed of the Second Intifada as finally and definitively killing any future two-state-solution, and thus contributing to the demise of Israel as such. Also see his December 2007 interview with Silvia Cattori, "Omar Barghouti: 'No State Has the Right to Exist as a Racist State'" at: http://www.voltairenet.org/article153536.html. In this interview he acknowledges that implementing the Right of Return would necessarily mean the dissolution of the Jewish state and of Zionism. He also sharply attacks the ruling circles of the Palestinian Authority for abandoning the goals of the P.L.O. to eliminate Israel, and their replacement of this with recognition of Israel and peace talks with it leading to a two-state-solution. Also see his articles "A Secular-Democratic State Solution: The Light at the End of the Gaza-Ramallah Tunnel," Counterpunch, June 20, 2007 (http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/06/20/the-light-at-the-end-of-the-gaza-ramallah-tunnel/), and "Virtual Statehood or the Right of Return," on the al-Jazeera website, September 14, 2011 (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201191394042383843.html).
- Anything that removes content from this article gets my support. I think the article needs to be 'stubified' and I may do that at some point. Much of it has been written by advocates, nationalists, sockpuppets and people with a conflict of interest. The views section is almost completely wiki editor sampling of primary sources. The criticism section is the usual pointless partisan crap that contaminates the encyclopedia. It's a good example of why Wikipedia shouldn't host articles about certain living people, especially Palestinians, because the content (and the people) can't be protected from the rampant dishonesty and POV pushing in the topic area. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
- PACBI ref was removed. We'd need a secondary source which reflects on PACBI position. Otherwise the ref does not appear worthy for inclusion. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 18:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- Unless you provide a reliable source that precisely supports the content you propose adding, nothing is going to happen. It's as simple as that. Wikipedia is not a reliable source (see WP:CIRCULAR), so your statement "This is an unquestionably reliable and satisfactory source to cite" is incorrect. Furthermore, editors are not allowed to carry out original research and synthesize content (see WP:OR), "you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented." There is no conspiracy of silence here. There is just your inaction and unfamiliarity with Wikipedia policy. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:15, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- However, his formulation of the outcome of the BDS movement he leads has sometimes shifted to a vision of two states, both of which are Palestinian-run and -dominated due to the "Right of Return." In a video released on YouTube, showing a speech by Barghouti in 2010 to a university campus Palestinian solidarity audience (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpilMYsR0I, he says (4 minutes into the video) "As you can see, I clearly do not buy into the two-state-solution." He then says, (at 4:58 minutes into the video), "If the refugees were to return, you would not have a two-state-solution. You would have a Palestine next to a Palestine, rather than a Palestine next to Israel." Juda Engelmayer has cited these video statements, and other declarations by Barghouti including one-state advocacy, as evidence that Barghouti is not interested in furthering peace developments at all, but to stop them altogether: see his "Economic Jihad against Israel: Palestinians Using Academics and Liberal Ideals to Promote an Extremist Agenda," August 2, 2010, on the news blog The Cutting Edge (http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=12443&pageid=&pagename). Bernard-Henri Levy, in his "Why the Call to 'Boycott Israel' is Crap," Huffington Post, January 25, 2011 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernardhenri-levy/why-the-call-to-boycott-i_b_813856.html) also criticises Barghouti for his attempt to delegitimize the Jewish state as such, an essentially eliminationist agenda.122.107.228.214 (talk) 12:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
- No surprise at the complete absence of response to the above detailed documentation; it is just as I predicted in my second post above. Nevertheless, I cannot resist adding one further citation relating to Barghouti's comments at the BDS conference currently being held in Bethlehem; Barghouti was interviewed at it by AFP reporters, and said that the BDS goal was to force Israel to bow to the "Right of Return" of millions of Palestinians inside Israel -- either that, or outright violence, were the only alternatives. He expressly rejected any BDS support for peace negotiations, no matter what Israel's concessions, and criticised PA leaders for entertaining such ideas. See Rina Tzvi, "BDS Leaders: 'Only Solution is Violence,'" Israel National News 12 June, 2013, at: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/168846#.UbgYb3BVo- To the above item, I return to add yet another of the almost daily articles substantiating these points; Asaf Rominowsky, columnist of The Algemeiner, in a June 14, 2013 article about the aforementioned BDS conference in Bethlehem, "BDS vs. Palestinian Statehood," at http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/06/14/bds-vs-palestinian-statehood/, criticised the "hypocrisy" of Barghouti's benefitting from enrollment at an Israeli university while calling for a world-wide boycott of it, emphasized the underlying anti-peace agenda of the BDS movement, its eliminationist goals regarding Israel, and its indifference to the violation of human rights of Palestinians by the P.A. authorities themselves, leading to physical assaults on dissidents even at the conference. 122.107.228.214 (talk) 06:59, 12 June 2013 (UTC)