Supreme Deliciousness (talk | contribs) |
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The RfC will be completed when there is consensus, consensus is gauged based on the merits of the arguments and sources, not by counting votes, so far no sources has been presented for "Mount Paras". --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 10:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
The RfC will be completed when there is consensus, consensus is gauged based on the merits of the arguments and sources, not by counting votes, so far no sources has been presented for "Mount Paras". --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 10:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
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:Correct, and the decision regarding consensus is based on the closing Admin's opinion not the opinion of the editor who opened the RfC. Please keep that in mind. Anyhow, regardless, changes cannot be made until an admin has closed the RfC. --[[User:nsaum75|<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">nsaum75</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:nsaum75|<span lang="he" xml:lang="he" dir="rtl">¡שיחת!</span>‎]]</sup> 10:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
:Correct, and the decision regarding consensus is based on the closing Admin's opinion not the opinion of the editor who opened the RfC. Please keep that in mind. Anyhow, regardless, changes cannot be made until an admin has closed the RfC. --[[User:nsaum75|<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">nsaum75</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:nsaum75|<span lang="he" xml:lang="he" dir="rtl">¡שיחת!</span>‎]]</sup> 10:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
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::Ill close it when the time is right and will carry out the change according to the standardized, neutral and reliable sources.--[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC) |
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'''Rename to Mount Peres''' – The original post doesn't seem to be all relevant. The sources specifically use the Arabic name Tal (al-)Faras, which is not English. The Hebrew and Arabic etymologies for the name differ; in Arabic, the mountain is called Tell of the Horse (''Tal al-Faras''), while in Hebrew it's called Mountain of the [[Bearded Vulture]] (''Har Peres''). We should be using the [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Use_modern_names|modern name]], which is Mount Peres. Here is the article in the Ariel Encyclopedia, vol. 7, p. 6137 (translation mine): |
'''Rename to Mount Peres''' – The original post doesn't seem to be all relevant. The sources specifically use the Arabic name Tal (al-)Faras, which is not English. The Hebrew and Arabic etymologies for the name differ; in Arabic, the mountain is called Tell of the Horse (''Tal al-Faras''), while in Hebrew it's called Mountain of the [[Bearded Vulture]] (''Har Peres''). We should be using the [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Use_modern_names|modern name]], which is Mount Peres. Here is the article in the Ariel Encyclopedia, vol. 7, p. 6137 (translation mine): |
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P.S. Sources that I have found in the period of 2 minutes include: [http://departments.agri.huji.ac.il/soils/chen/chen-site/students.htm], [http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=424_16] (need access, but you can see excerpts with a Google search), [http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120008669/abstract] (another academic source, search result [http://www.google.co.il/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Mount+Peres%22+%22geological+changes%22&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= here]). —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] <sup>([[User talk:Ynhockey|Talk]])</sup> 21:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
P.S. Sources that I have found in the period of 2 minutes include: [http://departments.agri.huji.ac.il/soils/chen/chen-site/students.htm], [http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=424_16] (need access, but you can see excerpts with a Google search), [http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120008669/abstract] (another academic source, search result [http://www.google.co.il/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Mount+Peres%22+%22geological+changes%22&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= here]). —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] <sup>([[User talk:Ynhockey|Talk]])</sup> 21:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC) |
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:Ynhockey, the standardized sources decide what the modern name is, not you, and as can be seen in the acceptable sources, they use the arabic name, not israeli. |
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:Now to the "sources" you have presented, Ariel Encyclopedia, not only is it non viewable, but its your own translation, but lets take a look at it "'''Ariel''' Encyclopedia" why don't you bring in Myths and Facts also? You said that the sources say: "adjacent to the Syrian border." which means that the sources sees the ceasefire line as a "Syrian border" which means that the sources sees the Golan heights as Israeli. Clearly unreliable. |
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:Next, ISHS source doesn't show anything, the "Students" page looks like something from a power point presentation, filled with names of Israeli people and I don't see anything mentioning any mountain there either. Your wiley source( [http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120008669/abstract][http://www.google.co.il/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Mount+Peres%22+%22geological+changes%22&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=]) is from the Department of Geology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem and it doesn't say anything but mentions its Israeli name. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:15, 13 March 2010
Syria Stub‑class Low‑importance | ||||||||||
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Categories
I have also removed Israeli and Syrian parent categories to avoid creating edit wars. The Israeli occupied territories category supercedes inclusion in parent categories. --nsaum75 ¡שיחת! 22:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Sources wanted for Faras/Paras mountain name
I request that people ad sources about this mountain/hill, I'm looking for standardized, neutral, reliable sources to set its correct name.
I have so far gathered these sources all showing it by its arabic name, Faras:
Map at University of Texas at Austin: [1]
CIA map [2]
Google map: [3]
Published book: " From Saladin to the Mongols: the Ayyubids of Damascus, 1193-1260"
Published book: "Embattled neighbors: Syria, Israel, and Lebanon"
Published book: "International documents on Palestine"
Published book: "The Israeli-Arab reader: a documentary history of the Middle East conflict"
Restaurants in Israel --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Restaurant Source and JPost source not neutral reliable source because they from entity that occupy Golan and be hostile to Syria and legitimate inhabitent of Golan. All other use Arab name so that must be name use. Ani medjool (talk) 23:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- As long as Mount Paras is the most commonly used name among English speakers, it should be used. Chesdovi (talk) 01:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Please bring sources to show "Mount Paras" as the "most commonly used name among English speakers", as you claim. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:49, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- I don't see where the Jerusalem Post or the Restaurant in Israel link reference Faras or Paras. The most commonly used English name is what we must base the article name off of, however, like with the other mountain names, there seems to be a lack of sources to definitively say what name it is, aside from passing mention. What we need is a source on the mountains themselves, not books that state a name in passing as part of a historical narritive.. --nsaum75¡שיחת! 02:50, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- The Jpost and israeli restaurant source say "Tel Fares" instead of "Tel Faras", as we can see from all (the only) sources presented is the overwhelmingly use of the arabic name. So that is what I'm gonna change the article to if no standardized reliable, neutral sources can be presented. So far you haven't even brought a non-reliable source using "Mount paras". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:56, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- As long as Mount Paras is the most commonly used name among English speakers, it should be used. Chesdovi (talk) 01:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The RfC will be completed when there is consensus, consensus is gauged based on the merits of the arguments and sources, not by counting votes, so far no sources has been presented for "Mount Paras". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Correct, and the decision regarding consensus is based on the closing Admin's opinion not the opinion of the editor who opened the RfC. Please keep that in mind. Anyhow, regardless, changes cannot be made until an admin has closed the RfC. --nsaum75¡שיחת! 10:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Ill close it when the time is right and will carry out the change according to the standardized, neutral and reliable sources.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Rename to Mount Peres – The original post doesn't seem to be all relevant. The sources specifically use the Arabic name Tal (al-)Faras, which is not English. The Hebrew and Arabic etymologies for the name differ; in Arabic, the mountain is called Tell of the Horse (Tal al-Faras), while in Hebrew it's called Mountain of the Bearded Vulture (Har Peres). We should be using the modern name, which is Mount Peres. Here is the article in the Ariel Encyclopedia, vol. 7, p. 6137 (translation mine):
A mountain in the southern part of the Golan, adjacent to the Syrian border. Its peak – 926 m above sea level. Volcano, on its peak the vent can be seen, and on its foothills – another vent. Named after the Peres [bearded vulture], a bird that can be found in Israel, and also by the Arabic name 'Tal al-Faras', which means Tell of the Horse, for its shape that's similar to a horse's back, similar to the name Susita – a Tell on the shore of the Kinneret [Sea of Galilee]. From the Quneitra–Hamat Gader road, there is a road that goes up to the peak of Mount Peres. Is found in a nature reserve. See also: Peres (I).
—Ynhockey (Talk) 21:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Sources that I have found in the period of 2 minutes include: [4], [5] (need access, but you can see excerpts with a Google search), [6] (another academic source, search result here). —Ynhockey (Talk) 21:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Ynhockey, the standardized sources decide what the modern name is, not you, and as can be seen in the acceptable sources, they use the arabic name, not israeli.
- Now to the "sources" you have presented, Ariel Encyclopedia, not only is it non viewable, but its your own translation, but lets take a look at it "Ariel Encyclopedia" why don't you bring in Myths and Facts also? You said that the sources say: "adjacent to the Syrian border." which means that the sources sees the ceasefire line as a "Syrian border" which means that the sources sees the Golan heights as Israeli. Clearly unreliable.
- Next, ISHS source doesn't show anything, the "Students" page looks like something from a power point presentation, filled with names of Israeli people and I don't see anything mentioning any mountain there either. Your wiley source( [7][8]) is from the Department of Geology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem and it doesn't say anything but mentions its Israeli name. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)