Thenightaway (talk | contribs) |
SMcCandlish (talk | contribs) →Fixing page for neutrality: I don't need to be pinged to things like this. |
||
Line 277: | Line 277: | ||
{{reflist-talk}} [[User:Sarah Nicklin|Sarah Nicklin]] ([[User talk:Sarah Nicklin|talk]]) 19:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
{{reflist-talk}} [[User:Sarah Nicklin|Sarah Nicklin]] ([[User talk:Sarah Nicklin|talk]]) 19:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
||
: The content in question is sourced to RS and sticks strictly to what is said in those RS. The Wikipedia content does not say or suggest that company that you work for was subject of legal inquiries. [[User:Thenightaway|Thenightaway]] ([[User talk:Thenightaway|talk]]) 19:58, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
: The content in question is sourced to RS and sticks strictly to what is said in those RS. The Wikipedia content does not say or suggest that company that you work for was subject of legal inquiries. [[User:Thenightaway|Thenightaway]] ([[User talk:Thenightaway|talk]]) 19:58, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
||
::Tend to agree, though I think the amount of verbiage could be pared down a little, simply as a matter of article length. PS: I am not a one-stop-shop for getting COI edits performed. I've been willing to help a little in a few cases where I thought the material was egregiously viewpoint-pushing, but I do not have an ongoing interest in working on this article or [[Christian Kälin]], subjects I have very little interest in (or knowledge about, or sources about which to work with), and I have much bigger fish to fry, like totally overhauling the [[Tartan]] article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tartan&diff=1154871996&oldid=1153007321]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 06:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 06:13, 15 May 2023
Companies C‑class Low‑importance | |||||||||||||||||
|
Malta C‑class Low‑importance | ||||||||||
|
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Henley & Partners. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161011120651/http://www.ifcreview.com/restricted.aspx?articleId=9184&areaId=34 to http://www.ifcreview.com/restricted.aspx?articleId=9184&areaId=34
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:16, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
NPOV & COI Dispute
I have read the disputed article and I am not able to find an NPOV nor a COI issue. The text is written objectively and properly backed by sources. I suggest deleting the maintenance template.
Have a great day. - User:Modurr —Preceding undated comment added 09:01, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Agree in principle, whilst this article does seem to have been biased initially when setup, it appears that objective and has been adequately addressed a since flagging this. Looks like a dormant discussion on this 78.24.33.244 (talk) 14:41, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- As an IP editor, you are not in a good position to be making this statement, or removing the templates, which I have reinstated. Edwardx (talk) 17:02, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Since no person has responded, can I suggest we delete the NPOV & COI Dispute templates? Waterpr8f (talk) 11:45, 06 June 2019 (UTC)
Malta and Daphne Galizia case
I saw this on other pages on Wikipedia before: There are several companies/people blamed on Wikipedia that they are involved in the Daphne Galizia case. However, by now it is clear who the perpetrators were and those companies accused on Wikipedia have nothing to do with it. There are certainly other editors with more experience than me but I personally don't think that those blaming-paragraphs are correct. Can I suggest deleting them? Fisherman887 (talk) 19:55, 04 February 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion, it is fair to have the discussions (pros- and cons) about the Maltese Individual Investor Programme under Criticism and Controversy but I agree, the connection to Daphne Galizia is outdated and misleading and the Shift News as a source might also be critical.Waterpr8f (talk) 10:58, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
- Fisherman887, why have you still not addressed the conflict of interest notice left on your talkpage in January 2019, over a year ago? Edwardx (talk) 11:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Edwardx. Thanks for the reminder and the simple answer is that I don’t see a COI. I don’t know the company other than from the outside. CbI programmes caught my interest several years ago and I do see great potential in them. The pages I used to edit where those that have the most information about the topics including the page of the industry-leader. While the positive benefits of CbI is also seen by many newspapers and experts, there still seem to be attempts on Wikipedia to defame rather than inform. If (any) allegations are justified, I do not have any problems with them. Yet I do think that if they are not justified and misleading, they should be deleted on Wikipedia. The sentence which I deleted is indeed very misleading and links a credible player in that industry with a murder. This is a very serious incrimination and by now, we know who the perpetrators are. I therefore started a discussion about this on the talk page a month ago and only one other editor replied. You did not engage in this discussion but just reversed the edits. I still think this sentence needs to be deleted. Fisherman887 (talk) 12:57, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
- Edwardx, I haven't heard back from you, neither here nor on my talk page. Please let me know what you think, otherwise, I'm going to undo your edit. Fisherman887 (talk) 09:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Edwardx. Thanks for the reminder and the simple answer is that I don’t see a COI. I don’t know the company other than from the outside. CbI programmes caught my interest several years ago and I do see great potential in them. The pages I used to edit where those that have the most information about the topics including the page of the industry-leader. While the positive benefits of CbI is also seen by many newspapers and experts, there still seem to be attempts on Wikipedia to defame rather than inform. If (any) allegations are justified, I do not have any problems with them. Yet I do think that if they are not justified and misleading, they should be deleted on Wikipedia. The sentence which I deleted is indeed very misleading and links a credible player in that industry with a murder. This is a very serious incrimination and by now, we know who the perpetrators are. I therefore started a discussion about this on the talk page a month ago and only one other editor replied. You did not engage in this discussion but just reversed the edits. I still think this sentence needs to be deleted. Fisherman887 (talk) 12:57, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
UDP
I have tagged this article {{undisclosed paid}}; it has been heavily targeted by the GlobeClimber/KraYa sockfarm and suffers from promo issues. This is confirmed UPE, I can provide more detail to OTRS members on request. Blablubbs|talk 09:32, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Resolving UPE issues
{{request edit}} has been deprecated. Please change this template call to one of the following:
- For edit requests relating to a conflict of interest, please use {{edit COI}}.
- If you are partially-blocked from editing the page, please use {{edit partially-blocked}}.
- If the page is protected, use one of the following:
If you simply need to ask for help in making an edit, please change the template to {{help me}}. Hi, my name is Sarah and I work for Henley & Partners. I recently introduced myself to User:Blablubbs, who encouraged me to propose a redrafted, shorter version of this article to facilitate the removal of the "undisclosed paid" tag. My draft, which can be found at User:Sarah Nicklin/Henley & Partners, is heavily derived from this old revision from April 2018, which was just before the undisclosed paid editing began, as far as I understand. I made sure to leave in content that appears to have been added by legitimate editors.
I have several suggestions in mind for improving and expanding the article, but my first priority is to start over with a clean slate, and only then begin proposing changes here on the Talk page.
Pinging 15 and Blablubbs. Please take a look at the draft and let me know if you think it's a constructive first step in resolving the article's problems, or if it doesn't go far enough, or even if goes too far. Thank you, Sarah Nicklin (talk) 10:17, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Sarah Nicklin,
- RE Impact: Add the Global Citizen Award from the current version to your draft (
The firm has also developed the annual Global Citizen Award, which consists of a USD 50,000 monetary prize.
+ sources), given that it has received independent coverage and is hence due for inclusion. - RE Criticism and controversy: Add H&Ps denial to the last paragraph of your draft from the current version (
Henley & Partners denied these allegations, confirming that Low was never a client and was specifically rejected as such in 2015.
+ source), but replace "confirming" with "asserting" or similar. I'm happy thatHenley & Partners was criticized from time to time [...]
was removed from the criticism section in your draft given that it is only loosely related. 15 (talk) 10:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @15: Done! Thanks for your quick response. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 11:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Sarah Nicklin, remove
In addition to advising private clients and governments, Kälin is a speaker and writer[15] who is regularly quoted in the international media.[16][17][18][19][20] Having coined the term ius doni as a stand-in for citizenship-by-investment, Kälin introduced the concept of ius doni into the contemporary legal and political theory of citizenship by providing the first comprehensive academic analysis of the subject.[21]
in User:Sarah Nicklin/Henley & Partners § Notes and I'm happy for you to implement the changes (=copy over your draft article and replace the current version with it). It reads too promotional and the level of detail is unneeded, given that Kälin has his own article. There is also a possible sourcing issue with ius doni, which might be best discussed at Kälin's article. 15 (talk) 22:00, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sarah Nicklin, remove
- @15: Done! Thanks for your quick response. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 11:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @15: I made the changes, per your instructions. Thanks again for your willingness to work with me on this. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 08:22, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
Tags
Hi Ethanbas, are there specific parts you suggest should be rewritten or trimmed from the article? I am afraid that the tags themselves are not very helpful to me without any further explanation, particularly given the recent rewrite. Best, 15 (talk) 10:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- The article (as well as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quality_of_Nationality_Index) just read wrong to me. I picked all the tags which I thought are applicable to both of these articles. It's good that there was a rewrite, but there are still way, way, way too many minor details in these articles that need to be removed in order for the article to be read better. I don't have the time to edit these articles, but as someone who reads at least a hundred Wikipedia articles each day, these two articles just jumped out in my eyes as being written with too many details and in a promotional / advertisement manner. That's all. I appreciate the rewrite but it needs to be rewritten further. Ethanbas (talk) 05:55, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
Criticism section
{{request edit}} has been deprecated. Please change this template call to one of the following:
- For edit requests relating to a conflict of interest, please use {{edit COI}}.
- If you are partially-blocked from editing the page, please use {{edit partially-blocked}}.
- If the page is protected, use one of the following:
If you simply need to ask for help in making an edit, please change the template to {{help me}}.
I'd like to request that the contents of the "Criticism and controversy" section be integrated into the History section, per WP:CSECTION.
Also, please remove the third paragraph (about The Shift News) entirely, as the two sources cited in the paragraph are both from The Shift News, which should not be considered a legitimate source of information about itself. (I also don't think the incident described here is noteworthy enough to merit inclusion in an encyclopedia article about the company, but that may be a moot point due to the improper sourcing.)
Pinging 15 - it would be great if you could weigh in here. Thanks, Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:31, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Sarah Nicklin, while I'm not sure about your claim of The Shift News' reliability, it doesn't look like it was picked up much by other media making it undue. I have removed it. Regarding the integration of the criticism section, I believe a chronological integration would be best? 15 (talk) 13:58, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- @15: Yes, chronological integration of the Criticism section makes the most sense. (I can perform that integration myself if you prefer and permit.) Thanks for your edits here, and when you get a chance, please do take a look at Talk:Christian Kälin#Resolving UPE issues. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- Sarah Nicklin, I've gone ahead and merged the CSection into the history one. Feel free to suggest how it should be otherwise structured. Happy to include more information (also outside of the controversy) in the Henley & Partners § Malta Individual Investor Programme, as it mainly consists of the former controversy part. 15 (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- @15: Thanks for taking care of the Criticism section. I think the structure is great, except the final paragraph now appears to be related to the Malta Individual Investor Programme, when in fact it is about another topic entirely, and should probably be moved to directly above the "Malta Individual Investor Programme" heading.
- Sarah Nicklin, I've gone ahead and merged the CSection into the history one. Feel free to suggest how it should be otherwise structured. Happy to include more information (also outside of the controversy) in the Henley & Partners § Malta Individual Investor Programme, as it mainly consists of the former controversy part. 15 (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- @15: Yes, chronological integration of the Criticism section makes the most sense. (I can perform that integration myself if you prefer and permit.) Thanks for your edits here, and when you get a chance, please do take a look at Talk:Christian Kälin#Resolving UPE issues. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- Aside from that, I would suggest further improving the undue weight problem in the Malta subsection by taking the following steps:
- In the first paragraph of the Malta subsection, remove all three sentences about Arton Capital (from "Arton Capital, a competing firm..." till the end of the paragraph). This ended up being a complete non-incident: an appeal of the Maltese government's decision to hire H&P that was filed by a rival firm and eventually dropped with little fanfare.
- Also in the first paragraph of the Malta subsection, add the following sentences to elaborate on the program itself: "The program provided citizenship to foreign individuals and their families who contribute to the country's economic development. The country later introduced more stringent conditions for acquiring citizenship, such as proof of residence in Malta for at least 12 months." (Source)
- What do you think? Sarah Nicklin (talk) 11:25, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- I think it's a complicated matter which requires some background reading. There is a lot of (better sourced) material not yet in the article, I'll try to get around doing it in the next few days. 15 (talk) 20:11, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- Partially done. Trimmed the section about Arton Capital but did not removed it. While what they did is quite common, it was still reported on and should be included per WP:PROPORTION. Added the sentence you suggested with slight wording changes for npov and tense. See diff. 15 (talk) 18:34, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- I think it's a complicated matter which requires some background reading. There is a lot of (better sourced) material not yet in the article, I'll try to get around doing it in the next few days. 15 (talk) 20:11, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- Aside from that, I would suggest further improving the undue weight problem in the Malta subsection by taking the following steps:
Proposing changes to lead and History
Hi, this is Sarah from Henley & Partners, here again to propose a few more changes to the article, specifically to the lead section and the History section.
Lead:
Please add the following as the second sentence of the article: "It is the largest investment migration consultancy in the world." The source is the Quartz article that is already cited later in the lead. (This sentence should probably be followed by a paragraph break, though one might legitimately disagree.)
History:
- It looks odd for the History section to have one subsection ("Malta Individual Investor Programme"). I propose to remove that subsection heading, as the History section in its entirety is not so long that it requires subsections. Alternatively, there could be multiple subsections apart from just the one on Malta, but that would probably lead to overly short subsections, which is also not ideal.
- Add the following sentence as the second paragraph in the History section: Since 2006,[1] the company has hosted an annual Global Citizenship Conference focusing on topics relating to residence and citizenship planning, the 15th of which took place in November-December 2021.[2][3][4]
- Expand the sentence that begins "Following the successful restructuring..." (my addition in bold): Following the successful restructuring of the St. Kitts and Nevis citizenship program, Henley & Partners began to advise the governments of Antigua and Barbuda, Grenada, and Cyprus on how to develop their own investment migration programs,[5] and has since that time worked for and been mandated by several other governments.[6][7][8][9]
- It is WP:UNDUE to have three whole paragraphs on the Jho Low incident at the end of the History section. Even the first paragraph alone is undue in my opinion, but certainly the following two paragraphs (which were added by an IP several weeks ago) are superfluous.
References
- ^ Abrahamian, Atossa Araxia (2015). The Cosmopolites: The Coming of the Global Citizen. Columbia Global Reports. p. 92. ISBN 978-0-9909763-6-3.
- ^ "15th Global Citizenship Conference". www.henleyglobal.com.
- ^ Abrahamian, Atossa Araxia (12 February 2012). "Special Report: Passports . . . for a price". Reuters.
- ^ Neate, Rupert (16 November 2019). "London ballroom hosts showcase event for 'golden passports'". The Guardian.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Skift
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ "Government Advisory Practice - Henley & Partners". www.henleyglobal.com.
- ^ "Thailand Lures The Ultra Wealthy". finews.asia. 31 March 2017.
- ^ Ljubas, Zdravko (4 October 2019). "Montenegro Launches Golden Visa Application Process". occrp.org.
- ^ "From Malta to Moldova: Henley & Partners new citizenship adventure". The Malta Independent. 14 July 2018.
Pinging 15 once again - thank you for bearing with me here! Sarah Nicklin (talk) 14:18, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I want to keep the subsection as the paragraphs belong together and more generally because I dislike the tendency of history sections in articles on (extant) companies to become timelines in prose form. There is (or surely will be) information on post-2015 developments that can be added with a new subsection at the end of the history section.
- Added with slight rewording.
- Done.
- I'm not surprised that you find it undue, but ultimately it has been widely covered by media, even if the actual connection of H&P to Jhu Low is more limited than I think media suggests. I have removed following two paragraphs.
- While edit requests such as these don't take long, I don't see myself finding much time to spend on them (or indeed Wikipedia at all) in the near future. While you are welcome to ping me in future requests, it would be good to add the COI edit request template in the future to hopefully get a quicker response (but not hugely likely given the lack of editors working in this mostly mind numbing area). That's not to say your requests were difficult to handle, but it's mostly a time thing. Best, 15 (talk) 23:08, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
- And perhaps, in the interest of adding
information on post-2015 developments
to the History section, we can also add the following sentence: In February 2022, Henley & Partners, in partnership with Deep Knowledge Analytics, launched the Best Investment Migration Real Estate Index, an index that compares countries by how welcoming they are for people seeking a secondary residence or citizenship.[1][2]
- And perhaps, in the interest of adding
References
- ^ Chadha, Sunainaa (9 February 2022). "Dubai takes top spot in new real estate migration index". The Times of India.
- ^ "UAE takes top spot in new global real estate index". Gulf News. 8 February 2022.
- Thank you! Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
- Also, I see that another editor added the {{Cleanup-PR}} tag to the article. This was very frustrating for me to see, since, as you know, a big part of the work the two of us have done over the last several months was to move the article away from reading like a press release. Can this tag be removed, at least until the editor who added it elaborates on where he feels the article is still problematic? Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, I have added the index with some changes. Pinging DGG regarding the PR tag: Is there anything which you would like to see changed? I realise there is probably more to be said re: Daphne Galizia and Passport Papers (can't believe I'm only finding out now...) either here or at the Kälin article, but that shouldn't have an impact on what else the article covers. 15 (talk) 14:20, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Also, I see that another editor added the {{Cleanup-PR}} tag to the article. This was very frustrating for me to see, since, as you know, a big part of the work the two of us have done over the last several months was to move the article away from reading like a press release. Can this tag be removed, at least until the editor who added it elaborates on where he feels the article is still problematic? Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- To start with:
- The article calls the firm both an " investment migration consultancy" a global citizenship and residence advisory firm" and an "immigration consultancy" Pick one and stay with it.
- "is active in refugee related philanthropy and has been criticised for its core business model, which detractors believe to threaten the fight against cross-border corruption and crime." combines a positive attribute with a negative one. This should be separated.
- The name of the firm is used too often. Replace most of them by "the firm" or "they" . Similarly for Malta Individual Investor Programme.
- Some of the firm's publciations have separate articles inc WP, which means that just an identification for them is needed here. WP is hypertext, and uses links.
- Add the 2021 reference:"Passport Papers: ‘To the clients, we say do the bare minimum’
Henley & Partners advise an undercover journalist about Malta's golden passports" Times of Malta April 23,2021 [1]
Additions to 'Later history' and 'Publications'
{{request edit}} has been deprecated. Please change this template call to one of the following:
- For edit requests relating to a conflict of interest, please use {{edit COI}}.
- If you are partially-blocked from editing the page, please use {{edit partially-blocked}}.
- If the page is protected, use one of the following:
If you simply need to ask for help in making an edit, please change the template to {{help me}}. Hello, it's Sarah again, with a few more proposed changes and additions.
Later history
- Add the following sentence to the beginning of the subsection: In March 2021, the company published the Investment Migration Programs Health Risk Assessment Report, which analyzed the stability of 31 countries with investment migration programs, in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.[1][2]
- Expand the sentence about the Feb. 2022 investment migration real estate index with a sentence about an earlier business index from Sep. 2021 (the following would replace the existing text for syntax and clarity): In September 2021, Henley & Partners, partnering with Deep Knowledge Analytics, launched the Best Residence-by-Investment Cities for Business Index, which compares and ranks 25 world cities for businesses looking to choose a headquarters location and other considerations.[3][4] The two companies partnered again in February 2022 to launch the Best Investment Migration Real Estate Index, which compares countries for those seeking a secondary residence or citizenship.[5][6]
Publications
- In the second paragraph, correct "Henley & Partners Passport Index" to "Henley Passport Index"
- Add the following to the end of that sentence: ", as well as the quarterly Global Mobility Report, which contains geopolitical analysis on trends influencing mobility patterns.[7][8]
References
- ^ Warren, Katie (24 March 2021). "The 10 most valuable passports money can buy if you want access to a country that handled the COVID-19 pandemic effectively". Business Insider.
- ^ Abbas, Waheed (23 March 2021). "UAE rated among top 10 countries by millionaires seeking health security". Khaleej Times.
- ^ ""Golden Visa" Advisory Group, Partner Launch Cities Index". Wealth Briefing. 15 September 2021.
- ^ Nair, Deepthi (15 September 2021). "Dubai ranked 11th most popular city globally for residence-by-investment programmes". The National.
- ^ Chadha, Sunainaa (9 February 2022). "Dubai takes top spot in new real estate migration index". The Times of India.
- ^ "UAE takes top spot in new global real estate index". Gulf News. 8 February 2022.
- ^ "Henley & Partners: Unpredictable Patterns of Migration Post-Covid". Finews.asia. 14 April 2021.
- ^ "Global Mobility Report 2021 Q1". www.henleyglobal.com.
Pinging 15 - thanks in advance! Sarah Nicklin (talk) 15:42, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Partly done I have only implemented your first and third suggestions; Someone more confident may or may not do the rest.Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 13:54, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
Major changes made without consensus
Recently, this article was overhauled in a single edit with no edit summary and no Talk page discussion. Several very significant changes were made, including summarily replacing the primary description of the company in the lead, tossing out large chunks of well-sourced consensus-based content throughout the article and adding multiple paragraphs of WP:COATRACK content framed inappropriately as criticism of the article's subject.
The impetus for these changes appears to have been the recent publication of an investigative report by the OCCRP. While the OCCRP does have editorial control and other hallmarks of good journalism, most Wikipedia editors will surely agree that it is a biased and opinionated source (see the organization's own description of itself and its mission) and thus the content it produces should be given in-text attribution and appropriate counterbalance on Wikipedia - not used to effectively override other reliable sources and treated as the final word on the subject.
I would request that the edit in question be reverted (of course, I will not do so myself due to my conflict of interest) and the changes discussed here on the Talk page first. Pinging 15 and Snooganssnoogans as a courtesy. Thank you, Sarah Nicklin (talk) 09:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- (1) Editors are under no obligation to preemptively seek out the input of Henley employees before editing this page. You do not WP:OWN this page. (2) OCCRP is a clear RS. You do not do yourself any good by making false claims as to the reliability of the source. (3) Tagging editors that you've had good relations with or have an expectation of helping you is WP:CANVASSING. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 13:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've made absolutely no attempt to assert ownership of the article, nor have I said anything to that effect. You are making significant changes on a controversial subject in an article that has been actively edited, and you should be seeking consensus for those changes first (per WP:CAREFUL rather than WP:BOLD).
- I didn't say OCCRP is unreliable. I said it's biased and opinionated, akin to many of the advocacy groups listed at WP:RSP, and therefore should require in-text attribution and should be used more minimally and with greater care.
- 15 has been the most active editor here by far over the last year, which makes it relevant to ping them in this situation. They have not shown bias toward or against the article's subject, and the fact that they have been WP:CIVIL toward me in our interactions should not be a disqualifying factor and certainly does not count as canvassing. (And in case you didn't notice, I pinged you too.)
- In any case, I do hope some other editors will weigh in here so we can get to a consensus-based version of the article rather than the current version. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 15:45, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- There are some good additions (eg. recent OCCRP reporting, St Kitts and Nevis passports) and some unexplained removals and changes, particularly wrt the lead--barring an explanation of changes falling in the latter category, I will undo those later. 15 (talk) 17:03, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
- I am looking at this page following a request by Sarah Nicklin. I have read through the diff, and thought the lead changes were a significant shift in tone that moved it away from being a summary of the existing article by focus on the single new source. Given 15 saw a similar issue, I have reverted this. On the source and body text, I am not sure the source needs that specific handling, however there are potential tone and BLP issues in the new body text, and some areas where text was removed without explanation. I have made some changes there, restoring removals and removing the list of specific individuals, but have not gone through the other text. CMD (talk) 14:21, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- The new changes distort what reliable sources say about the company, include WP:OR about the greatness of the company that borders on advertisement (including claims that the company is responsible for massive GDP growth in the Caribbean when the cited source does not mention Henley and specifically mentions tourism), highlights the company's philanthropy in the lead when it just amounts to a $1 million donation (reported in a source of questionable RS status), and removes high-quality RS content about the company's clients under mistaken pretense that it amounts to BLP violations. All in all, an extraordinarily bad set of edits that were the result of a COI-account's WP:CANVASSing and which have turned the article into a NPOV-violating advertisement for the company that highlights the greatness of the company, obscures the company's practices under confusing language and surgically removes RS content about the company's controversial practices. The pre-canvassed version should be restored and if the COI account wants community input on the content, it should use regular untainted processes to do so (e.g. RFCs, 3O, NPOV noticeboard). Thenightaway (talk) 14:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- No new changes have been made. That said, it's good to see explanations for the edits. Not sure being described as creating the citizenship planning industry is a mark of greatness. The tiny philanthropy sentence probably can go as pretty meaningless. I don't think the text suggests the company is responsible for the GDP changes. The list of specific named individuals does not add encyclopaedic information here. CMD (talk) 14:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Seems encyclopedic to cover, as RS do, that the company is helping money launderers, fraudsters and sanctions evaders to obtain passports and obscuring its role in doing so. That's precisely why the company's practices are so controversial in the first place. Thenightaway (talk) 14:52, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- No new changes have been made. That said, it's good to see explanations for the edits. Not sure being described as creating the citizenship planning industry is a mark of greatness. The tiny philanthropy sentence probably can go as pretty meaningless. I don't think the text suggests the company is responsible for the GDP changes. The list of specific named individuals does not add encyclopaedic information here. CMD (talk) 14:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- The new changes distort what reliable sources say about the company, include WP:OR about the greatness of the company that borders on advertisement (including claims that the company is responsible for massive GDP growth in the Caribbean when the cited source does not mention Henley and specifically mentions tourism), highlights the company's philanthropy in the lead when it just amounts to a $1 million donation (reported in a source of questionable RS status), and removes high-quality RS content about the company's clients under mistaken pretense that it amounts to BLP violations. All in all, an extraordinarily bad set of edits that were the result of a COI-account's WP:CANVASSing and which have turned the article into a NPOV-violating advertisement for the company that highlights the greatness of the company, obscures the company's practices under confusing language and surgically removes RS content about the company's controversial practices. The pre-canvassed version should be restored and if the COI account wants community input on the content, it should use regular untainted processes to do so (e.g. RFCs, 3O, NPOV noticeboard). Thenightaway (talk) 14:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- I am looking at this page following a request by Sarah Nicklin. I have read through the diff, and thought the lead changes were a significant shift in tone that moved it away from being a summary of the existing article by focus on the single new source. Given 15 saw a similar issue, I have reverted this. On the source and body text, I am not sure the source needs that specific handling, however there are potential tone and BLP issues in the new body text, and some areas where text was removed without explanation. I have made some changes there, restoring removals and removing the list of specific individuals, but have not gone through the other text. CMD (talk) 14:21, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- There are some good additions (eg. recent OCCRP reporting, St Kitts and Nevis passports) and some unexplained removals and changes, particularly wrt the lead--barring an explanation of changes falling in the latter category, I will undo those later. 15 (talk) 17:03, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Merger proposal: Henley Passport Index
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- The result of this discussion was no consensus. Brenthaven (talk) 22:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The merger proposal - I propose merging Henley Passport Index into Henley & Partners. I think the content in Henley Passport Index can easily be explained in the context of Henley & Partners, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Henley & Partners. The existence of the Henley Passport Index page is purely promotional. Thenightaway (talk) 16:21, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- and discussion
- There is no reason for this merger. The page does not qualify any of the reasons as mentioned on WP:MERGE
- (1)There are two or more pages on exactly the same subject
- – Negative, the pages are not on the same subject. Both the subjects are notable enough to warrant a standalone Wikipedia page
- (2)There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap.
- – No, there is no overlap of information, Henley & Partners page talks about the company and the Henley Passport Index page talks about the index/report
- (3)If a page is very short, and cannot, or should not, be expanded much, it often makes sense to merge it with a page on a bigger topic.
- – The page is not short. Has plenty of information and citations
- (4)If a short article needs the background material from another article for readers to understand it.
- – This becomes invalid since the point above
- I have contributed to this page before and the topic definitely holds encyclopedic value. The page was created in 2007, so for 15 years, I am certain it has helped readers. ANLgrad (talk) 22:29, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Merger proposal: Quality of Nationality Index
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- The result of this discussion was no consensus. Brenthaven (talk) 22:07, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The merger proposal - I propose merging Quality of Nationality Index into Henley & Partners. I think the content in Quality of Nationality Index can easily be explained in the context of Henley & Partners, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Henley & Partners. The existence of the Quality of Nationality Index page is purely promotional. Thenightaway (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- and discussion
- Here again, the page does not qualify any of the reasons as mentioned on WP:MERGE. I have not contributed on this page yet, I will definitely research and add to it (or remove if required). On a simple google search, you can find this research paper about this index with 1616 downloads meaning that the information does hold value to the readers - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3578074 ANLgrad (talk) 22:36, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
My edits are being destroyed. I would like to bring this to attention
For all my edits on any other page, everything goes well. On this particular page, user:Thenightaway is always destroying my edits. I have already discussed on teahouse and wanted to post this here before taking it to WP:ANI. Such actions are definitely making me feel unsafe in this environment. I make sure that only key information with WP:RS sources are provided. I am politely requesting the community to help me with this. user:Thenightaway, I am also requesting you to participate in this discussion. You never replied to my discussion on Teahouse either. I am trying to understand why you only have a problem with my edits on this particular page. Although, my expertise lies in topics I have mentioned on my talk page, I only include important information and correct sources. ANLgrad (talk) 16:42, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- There is no encyclopedic value in detailing the nature of all the different reports that this company produces. The reports are already mentioned – they do not need to be described in detail. The sources that you keep adding are bottom-rung sources that provide no information that substantiates that these reports are important; instead, the low-quality sources just repeat the contents of the reports in listicle-style clickbait stories (e.g. "These are the best and worst passports!"). If you want this content in the article, you need to seek consensus. Per WP:BRD, you cannot repeatedly reinsert contested content into the article. Thenightaway (talk) 17:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- 1. Firstly, these are reports which even countries take seriously and you can easily find that out by a simple search. So, they definitely have encyclopedic value without an iota of doubt.
- 2 - I am not describing them in extreme detail. It's barely a line or two.
- 3 - I have discussed this on teahouse and I was advised we can definitely add details if it doesn't warrant a new page.
- 4 - I am aware of WP:OSE, but pages like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwatch rightly elaborate on significant report. Why are you not challenging my edits there? This reflects you have some negative bias for this particular company.
- 5 - I am making edits as per WP:BRD and all my citations are WP:RS. I also provide relevant quote from the citation.
- 6 - Most importantly - You mentioned "we are not giving entire paragraphs to some reports published by this company because moroccoworldnews.com reports on them." When you say, "we are not...." - I request you to let me know what you mean by that - do you mean you own Wikipedia? I am an equal contributor to this voluntary encyclopedia and there is no ownership of articles.
- I request you to answer my questions that I have asked you in point number 4 and 6 above. Thank you. ANLgrad (talk) 18:23, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- Re: (4) It's not my job to review all your edits across Wikipedia. Per WP:OTHER, it's completely irrelevant what kinds of crap exists on other pages. Re: (6) The rules of Wikipedia are very clear. If content is contested, it should not be re-added in the absence of consensus. You're flagrantly violating these rules by repeatedly restoring this contested content which does not have consensus. Thenightaway (talk) 18:33, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- (4) - absolutely, it is not your job to review all my edits, so why only on this page? Again, I am hoping you will answer my question - why are you going behind my edits only on this particular page?
- (6) - If the rules of Wikipedia are so clear to you, then why have you received so many warnings in the past for disruptive editing? Here are the examples
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Thenightaway/Archive_11#Notice_of_edit_warring_noticeboard_discussion
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Thenightaway/Archive_10#Edit-warring_on_Byron_York
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Thenightaway/Archive_9#Continued_edit_warring
- All my edits on all pages are constructive in nature and I don’t touch random topics. Also, I don’t appreciate you using language like “crap exists on other pages”. Please maintain a better tone in this discussion. I don’t think such casually rough language is encouraged on Wikipedia.
- And when you say "we are not giving entire paragraphs to some reports” - do you mean you control Wikipedia? You make it sound like you are an authority and I am an outsider. ANLgrad (talk) 22:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Re: (4) It's not my job to review all your edits across Wikipedia. Per WP:OTHER, it's completely irrelevant what kinds of crap exists on other pages. Re: (6) The rules of Wikipedia are very clear. If content is contested, it should not be re-added in the absence of consensus. You're flagrantly violating these rules by repeatedly restoring this contested content which does not have consensus. Thenightaway (talk) 18:33, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Building up a section
Based on the discussion on teahouse regarding building up of Publications section and consensus for the same, I am pasting the discussion link here for others to refer to - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1171#Building_up_a_section ANLgrad (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Pelagic thank you for your bullet point suggestion. I tried both options you suggested, and the bullet point looks more appropriate. ANLgrad (talk) 16:47, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Restore section that was deleted improperly
{{request edit}} has been deprecated. Please change this template call to one of the following:
- For edit requests relating to a conflict of interest, please use {{edit COI}}.
- If you are partially-blocked from editing the page, please use {{edit partially-blocked}}.
- If the page is protected, use one of the following:
If you simply need to ask for help in making an edit, please change the template to {{help me}}. Hi everyone. I'd like to propose restoring the "Impact" section, which was deleted several months ago along with most of its content, with the terse edit summary "these are not rs." The content of the section that was deleted (not including the sentence about the Global Citizen Award, which was partly preserved elsewhere in the article) is as follows:
- In 2015, Henley & Partners formed a multi-year partnership with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) which entailed a $1 million donation by the firm.[1] As part of the partnership, the firm also raises awareness for the refugee cause.[2]
The claim that the prominent Maltese news outlets Malta Today and The Malta Independent are "not rs" is baseless, and the content itself is pertinent, encyclopedic and WP:DUE, so I would ask that the section be restored.
In addition, the Impact section could reasonably be bolstered by other encyclopedic information, as follows:
- Move the sentence about the Global Citizen Award out of the "Conferences" section (where it is out of place) and into the Impact section, and elaborate with information from the existing reference, The Indian Express: The firm awards an annual Global Citizen Award, which consists of a USD 50,000 monetary prize given to an "individual who has made an extraordinary contribution towards improving the global community."[3]
- Add a sentence about the Hero Scholarship: In 2016, the firm partnered with the Antigua-based Halo Foundation and Saint Mary's University in Halifax to create the Hero Scholarship, whose stated aim is "to ease the financial barrier to tertiary-level education for students from disadvantaged backgrounds."[4]
- Add a sentence about the Andan Foundation: In 2017, the firm supported the establishment of the Andan Foundation, a Switzerland-based non-profit organization whose stated aim is "to increase self-reliance of refugees."[5][6]
References
- ^ Vella, Matthew (March 15, 2015). "Henley: passports for the global rich, charity for the global poor". Malta Today.
- ^ "Henley & Partners teams up with UNHCR to help global refugee cause". The Malta Independent. March 21, 2015.
- ^ "Indian-origin humanitarian gets Global Citizen Award". The Indian Express. 13 November 2016.
- ^ "The 2018 Henley & Partners Hero Scholarship – Halo Foundation". foundationhalo.org. 2018-03-31.
- ^ Steck, Albert (December 1, 2021). "The citizenship-by-investment business is flourishing. «The boom goes beyond anything we have seen before»". Neue Zürcher Zeitung.
- ^ "Corporate Social Responsibility | Henley & Partners". Henley & Partners.
Thank you, Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:16, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know enough about those newspapers to comment on their reliability (and Thenightaway challenged one in an earlier thread, too), so I've asked at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Malta Today and The Malta Independent. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:58, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- The discussion at RSN indicated no problems with these sources, so the material should probably be restored. (I have other stuff going on right now, but may look into it if no one else acts on this.) — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 05:41, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
- Partly done: Restored the UNHCR and Global Citizen content under a new philanthropy section. Added Andan Foundation, with some modifications. Both sources are technically primary. Did not include the Halo Foundation bit, solely sourced to what appears to be a primary source. WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 21:09, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- The discussion at RSN indicated no problems with these sources, so the material should probably be restored. (I have other stuff going on right now, but may look into it if no one else acts on this.) — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 05:41, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Fixing misleading language in two places
Hi everyone. There are two places where I've noticed the language is still misleading.
- In the second paragraph of the St. Kitts and Nevis subsection, the article misleadingly refers to the country's citizenship-by-investment program as "the Henley and Partners scheme." As the sources make clear, the program was entirely government-run by 2014, Henley's contract with the government of St. Kitts and Nevis having ended the previous year. So the program could not be reasonably called "the Henley and Partners scheme," and in fact, the original 2014 warnings from the US and Canada regarding the program made no mention of Henley & Partners.
- I propose changing the sentence from "...through the Henley and Partners scheme" to "...through the program."
- In the fourth paragraph of the Malta subsection, it says that "Henley worked for Low through a Cypriot intermediary." This is inaccurate. As the Guardian source says, Henley did not work for Low, but instead "referred him to a third agency" in Cyprus. This third agency is not characterized as an "intermediary" in the Guardian, whose reporting should be favored on Wikipedia over that of the OCCRP. And the final sentence uses value-laden language ("pocketed" rather than "received") and inaccurately states that the payment Henley received was for its "services to Low," when in fact the payment was an indirect real estate commission resulting from a transaction of the third-party agency involving Low (as the OCCRP source itself explains), not for services to Low himself.
- To be fair and accurately reflect the facts as reported in the Guardian, I propose changing the final two sentences of the paragraph to: "Leaked documents in 2021 revealed that Henley referred Low to a third-party agency in Cyprus. Henley received 710,000 euros indirectly as a result of a subsequent real estate transaction involving Low."
Sarah Nicklin (talk) 09:20, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- Done: Both of those seems like improvements, better matching the source material. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:52, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Resolving issues
Hi, I’d like to start a discussion here on the current version of the article. It is very alarming that this page always seems to attract negative information in big chunks and positive/neutral information in minimal updates. There are tons of news stories which reflect Henley & Partners in a positive light, but don’t see its way on the page. There is no ownership of any sort, and therefore a neutral mix of edits should be allowed and tolerated on the page. Recently, a few lines with sources which were neutral and fact-based have been removed.
- It also consults on general immigration law and policy as well as visa policy and the negotiation of associated treaties. The company's Residence and Citizenship Practice Group advises individuals and their advisors such as law firms, banks, and family offices on alternative residence and citizenship.
- It has been criticised for its core business model, which detractors believe to threaten the fight against cross-border corruption and crime, which the company dismissed.[1] Henley's immigrant investor programs in Malta and in St. Kitts and Nevis have stirred controversy,[2][3] despite economic benefits to both the countries.[4][5]
Removal of such content doesn’t seem to be appropriate and fair. I urge the Wikipedia community to check and add it back as this is unfair. In the Malta subsection, a huge piece of negative information has been added with undue weight to the English PEN statement along with a blockquote which is not required. In that case many positive blockquotes should be added too. This is done just to sabotage the page and if someone can be kind enough to correct this.
References
- ^ Guarascio, Francesco (2019-01-23). "EU warns of crime risks from governments' sales of passports, visas". Reuters. Retrieved 2021-03-28.
- ^ "Conflicts of Interest and Controversial Clients: Henley & Partners' Caribbean Business". OCCRP. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
- ^ "Revealed: residency loophole in Malta's cash-for-passports scheme". The Guardian. 2021-04-22. Retrieved 2021-04-22.
- ^ "Is St Kitts And Nevis' passport scheme lucrative for all involved?". GQ. 21 July 2018. Retrieved 13 March 2023.
"supporting economic recovery, improving key macroeconomic balances and boosting bank liquidity"
- ^ "2019 Investment Climate Statements: Malta". Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs. US Department of State. Retrieved 13 March 2023.
National Development and Social Fund (NDSF). The fund receives 70 percent of its contributions from the country's citizenship program. These initiatives and projects are intended to develop and improve the economy, public services, and the general well-being of present and future generations.
Sarah Nicklin (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
Fixing page for neutrality
{{request edit}} has been deprecated. Please change this template call to one of the following:
- For edit requests relating to a conflict of interest, please use {{edit COI}}.
- If you are partially-blocked from editing the page, please use {{edit partially-blocked}}.
- If the page is protected, use one of the following:
If you simply need to ask for help in making an edit, please change the template to {{help me}}. Hi everyone, this is Sarah from Henley & Partners here again to propose a few more changes to the article. I'd like to propose fixing of the information that was recently added.
- In the Malta subsection, a huge piece of negative information has been added with undue weight to the English PEN statement not following WP:PROPORTION and WP:UNDUE. I would request that the addition of the entire information be reverted and the changes not to be added again without consensus.
- Also, this line - She was assassinated later that year.[1][2] – need not be on the page as this has nothing to do with the subject. The SWI swissinfo.ch source says that ‘Neither Henley and Partners nor Christian Kälin have been the subject of legal inquiries.' The whole truth should be presented and not just the half-truth of the news story. Please remove this.#The entire blockquote from the English PEN statement is redundant. If we are block quoting information then I can suggest a lot of blockquotes that can be added on the page. The English PEN story is misleading as the organization is more concerned about actions of Maltese government and not Henley. Please read the background at the end of the story to understand the context. Please remove the block quote.
- Besides, I don’t get why the page has to be a subject of only criticism. There are tons of news stories which reflect the subject in a different light, but don’t see its way on the page. Unexplained removal of neutral lines also doesn’t seem to be reasonable.
- Also, a few lines with sources which were neutral and fact-based have been removed. Please restore them as they were factually correct, appropriate and sourced.
I am hoping other editors will pitch in here so we can get to a neutral version of the article. Pinging 15 and SMcCandlish to help please. Thank you.
References
- ^ "Emails, notes revealed Henley's plan to keep Daphne quiet, inquiry told". Times of Malta. Retrieved 2023-05-10.
- ^ RTS, Jérôme Galichet. "Achetez votre nationalité préférée: enquête sur le business des passeports dorés". SWI swissinfo.ch (in French). Retrieved 2023-05-10.
Sarah Nicklin (talk) 19:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- The content in question is sourced to RS and sticks strictly to what is said in those RS. The Wikipedia content does not say or suggest that company that you work for was subject of legal inquiries. Thenightaway (talk) 19:58, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- Tend to agree, though I think the amount of verbiage could be pared down a little, simply as a matter of article length. PS: I am not a one-stop-shop for getting COI edits performed. I've been willing to help a little in a few cases where I thought the material was egregiously viewpoint-pushing, but I do not have an ongoing interest in working on this article or Christian Kälin, subjects I have very little interest in (or knowledge about, or sources about which to work with), and I have much bigger fish to fry, like totally overhauling the Tartan article [2]. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)