Bob K31416 (talk | contribs) →Why do we have to call Bradley HER. It's confusing.: Kept closer's comment but reverted close. |
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== Why do we have to call Bradley HER. It's confusing. == |
== Why do we have to call Bradley HER. It's confusing. == |
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Wikipedia should at least say "him/her" instead of "her", this guy looks obviously male. |
Wikipedia should at least say "him/her" instead of "her", this guy looks obviously male. |
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::I agree as well that we should be using both pronouns, I know feelings were crazy at the time because it was causing a widespread media frenzy but feelings set aside it is really confusing to readers here. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 22:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC) |
::I agree as well that we should be using both pronouns, I know feelings were crazy at the time because it was causing a widespread media frenzy but feelings set aside it is really confusing to readers here. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 22:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC) |
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⚫ | :::The [[MOS:IDENTITY|manual of style guidelines on gender identity]] support the current usage. If you wish to argue for a different usage, please establish consensus at {{talk|MOS:IDENTITY|that talk page}} first. See also [[Talk:Chelsea_Manning/FAQ|FAQ Q3]]. '''[[User:LFaraone|L]]<font color="darkgreen">[[User talk:LFaraone|Faraone]]</font>''' 22:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC) |
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Deed Poll
Has their name been changed by deed poll (or whatever the equivalent is, and has the transgenderism been confirmed medically? And if not why are they not requirements before changing the name etc?Theofficeprankster (talk) 20:14, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
- Please see the FAQ, Question 4. LFaraone 21:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
- (e/c) Re "has their name been changed [...] and if not why are they not requirements before changing the name?": see the FAQ at the top of this page and, for more detailed discussion, peruse this page's many archives, where the questioned has been discussed in detail numerous times.
Re "has the transgenderism been confirmed medically?": yes, Manning has been diagnosed with gender identity disorder, as stated in the first paragraph of the article.
Cheers, -sche (talk) 21:15, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2013
The article should say her name is Bradley Edward "Chelsea" Manning. Since she hasn't change her name legally yet. You can use Chelsea in the title though. 76.105.96.92 (talk) 03:39, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
- Your opinion is noted, but this issue is settled for the foreseeable future. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:54, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2013
I suggest you put all female-specific pronouns in quotation marks. 71.59.58.63 (talk) 21:27, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
- Not done: --Jnorton7558 (talk) 21:29, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
- Can I ask those who keep reverting the removal of this section in what way this proposal does not relate to scare quotes, or how this request can reasonably be seen as in good faith? AlexTiefling (talk) 00:27, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, you have it backwards. If you want to pursue this, you'll need to show that the editor was acting in bad faith. Please see WP:AGF in general and also note the following excerpt from the section Accusing others of bad faith,
- "Without clear evidence that the action of another editor is actually in bad faith or harassment, repeatedly alleging bad faith motives could be construed as a personal attack."
- FWIW, it looks like the editor's intent may have been to put quotes around things that don't seem official, like using a name that is not a legal name, as mentioned in the previous section, or using feminine pronouns when the person may be legally a male. I'm just assuming good faith here and speculating what may have been in the editor's mind, and not expressing my opinion of whether the suggested edit is right or wrong. You may have different speculations about what was in the editor's mind. In any case, if there isn't clear evidence of bad faith, then we should assume good faith. --Bob K31416 (talk) 02:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, you have it backwards. If you want to pursue this, you'll need to show that the editor was acting in bad faith. Please see WP:AGF in general and also note the following excerpt from the section Accusing others of bad faith,
- Can I ask those who keep reverting the removal of this section in what way this proposal does not relate to scare quotes, or how this request can reasonably be seen as in good faith? AlexTiefling (talk) 00:27, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2013
Her new middle name is Elizabeth? Where did you get that from? She just signed it Chelsea E. Manning. 76.105.96.92 (talk) 19:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
- The source for the middle name Elizabeth comes from this release from Manning's lawyer, found in reference four. Novusuna talk 19:24, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Why do we have to call Bradley HER. It's confusing.
Wikipedia should at least say "him/her" instead of "her", this guy looks obviously male.
I know some don't want his/her feelings hurt, but sorry, it goes both ways. Bradley is still a man by looking at his picture and it is offensive to me as a male with a feminine build to read "her". It's a disgrace to our country. Give him some honor by calling him what he really is, "a man". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.12.249 (talk) 22:00, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- Agreed. - Boneyard90 (talk) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- There is a difference between a feminine looking man and a trans woman. Chelsea Manning identifies as female, not as a feminine man, and our manual of style says we should respect that. The photo still appears masculine because, as she is currently detained following her conviction, she has not had any opportunity to have a photo taken with her new gender presentation. Novusuna talk 22:08, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- I agree as well that we should be using both pronouns, I know feelings were crazy at the time because it was causing a widespread media frenzy but feelings set aside it is really confusing to readers here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- The manual of style guidelines on gender identity support the current usage. If you wish to argue for a different usage, please establish consensus at that talk page first. See also FAQ Q3. LFaraone 22:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)