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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|1= |
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== Just a small spelling error spotted... == |
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{{WikiProject Armenia|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Artsakh|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Azerbaijan|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Georgia (country)|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Russia|importance=Top|humgeo=yes|physgeo=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Caucasia|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Iran|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Western Asia|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Europe|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Geography|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Turkey|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome|importance=Low}} |
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{{WikiProject Greece|importance=Low|topic=history|byzantine-task-force=yes}} |
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}} |
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{{archives|search=yes}} |
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==Caucasus== |
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"boardering" in the first sentence should be spelt: "bordering", I think. |
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Iran is not a Caucasian nation, the Caucasus ends at the border with Iran.[[User:Azerbaijani|Azerbaijani]] 21:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:I took Iran out, because as far as I know, no part of Iran is in the Caucasus. The border with Iran marks the end of the Caucasus and the beginning of the Iranian plateau (relatively ofcourse).[[User:Azerbaijani|Azerbaijani]] 21:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== Remove incorrect "historical" map == |
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::Some part of Iran are in Caucasus, Most parts of Caucasus was under control and a part of Iran at Qajar Dynasty, which was given to Russian under several wars. By the way, Iran had a long time of history and culture within Caucasus. [[User:Amiria703|Amiria703]] ([[User talk:Amiria703|talk]]) 15:35, 28 July 2023 (UTC) |
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I have removed the “Ancient countries of Caucasus” map because it is false from a historical point of view and it is not appropriate in this entry. |
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Anyone who considers Greece, the Caucasus or anything in that region European, seriously needs to actually live in these places to appreciate their profound ignorance. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.254.81.209|87.254.81.209]] ([[User talk:87.254.81.209|talk]]) 14:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Although generally the map is false, it is also partially correct, in a sense that some of the borders shown there did in fact exist (for example the borders of Armenia, or rather “Greater Armenia” empire), BUT they existed only for a certain period of time and these borders often changed, so focusing on one particular historical period when borders of one ancient state was wider than borders of the other (and at the expense of the other) is not quite correct. For example, before II cc. BC there was no Armenia on the political map of the Caucasus (ancient Armenian homeland was in modern eastern Anatolia/Turkey): what makes us then to put a map of Caucasus dealing with pre-II c. BC period? Or from VIII c. up to XX c. (!) there was no Armenian state in the political map of the Caucasus, would it be right to put a map which would cover this historical period?.. So, my point is, considering that this map relates to a certain historical period, and moreover, depicts that historical period incorrectly, why should we put this historical map at all? |
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: ''Greece not European?'' What the heck do you mean by that? ''It was the Greeks who came up with the concept of Europe in the first place! [[User:Wardog|Wardog]] ([[User talk:Wardog|talk]]) 15:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC) |
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: Europe is an invented continent. It's really just part of the larger Eurasian land mass. But based on conventional definitions Greece is clearly European. In fact, it was the Greeks who invented the idea of Europe as a separate continent. They considered themselves Europeans back then and still do today. So by all accounts, they are more "European" than anyone else. They symbolize the origins of the concept of Europe. Now do tell us how Greece is not European and how one can realize this by living there? What, just because it has some cultural differences than other parts of Europe? Do you think all European cultures are the same? Europe is not a monolith. Of course there is going to be differences between regions. It's a highly diverse and fragmented place. Is France like Latvia? Is Ireland like Romania? Is Finland like Italy? By your logic Hindu India is not part of "Asia" because it doesn't adhere to the Islamic and Confucian traditions that dominate the continent. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:TheyCallMeTheEditor|TheyCallMeTheEditor]] ([[User talk:TheyCallMeTheEditor|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheyCallMeTheEditor|contribs]]) 22:31, 8 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Furthermore, don’t you think that by putting this map we inadvertently endorse “historical belonging” of certain territories to certain countries of the Caucasus? For example, Georgians consider Colchis and Iberians as their forefathers, and Azeris consider Caucasian Albanians as their ancestors. So, by having this false and incorrect map on the page, we are causing additional unnecessary dispute and inadvertently endorsing certain “historical national boundaries” (which moreover, are based on false assumptions and wrong map). |
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Ethno-Linguistic groups in the Caucasus region- that map is totally wrong. It shows in eastern Turkey language is Kurdish. But in East Turkey there are 3 million Kurdish, and 25 million Turkish. So, what is it? just a biased map... <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.228.61.2|88.228.61.2]] ([[User talk:88.228.61.2|talk]]) 12:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I believe that this entry in fact is not about history of the Caucasus, a region with one of the most controversial histories in the world. This entry is about the region as it is today and there should be no place in it for such false and propagandistic maps. |
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== Image == |
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p.s. Panonian, these comments are in no way directe against you. You’ve done an excellent job in Wikipedia by preparing various maps. --[[User:Tabib|Tabib]] 14:36, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) |
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A more recent map should be used here to show current countries [[User:BigEyedFish|BigEyedFish]] ([[User talk:BigEyedFish|talk]]) 07:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC) |
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:I agree with the proposal and think this image is suitable. As caucasus is a geographical region this picture is more suitable for the article that the other images on the wikicommons which are political maps mostly. [[Image:Caucasus region 1994.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Geographical map of Caucasus with national borders shown]] -[[User:ArazZeynili|ArazZeynili]]<sub>[[User_talk:ArazZeynili|talk]]</sub><sup>[[Special:Contributions/ArazZeynili|contrib]]</sup><sub>19:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)</sub> |
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Okay, that's your POV. I think you've put it very well. But it's a bit much to describe anyone who disagrees as committing "vandalism". They're probably as well intentioned as you are. I do suggest that those in favour of the map answer Tabib's points though, rather than mindlessly revert-warring over it. [[User:Grace Note|Grace Note]] 04:57, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:Grace Note, calling my arguments as "my POV" would be wrong and misleading. As I explained above, this map is inappropriate for this entry, and moreover is incorrect. Anyone knowledgeable on the issue, as well as anyone who would be attentive enough would agree that this "map" has nothing to do in this entry. As to anon reverts, I think you should be informed that these anons were mostly (if not all) vandal Rovoam, who's been vandalizing more than 30 (thirty!) entries in Wikipedia for several months already. Please, see one of the [[User_talk:65.148.145.90|regular disclaimers]] on this vandal and don't allow yourself to be deceived by him. --[[User:Tabib|Tabib]] 05:30, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC) |
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* Okay, that is yet another POV of yours. The map is representative of ancient Caucasian Geography; fullstop! Turcic Azeris are indeed not of Caucasion origin at all, but have provenly migrated to this part of our beautiful world from distant steppes in eastern Asia! [[User:84.154.103.206]] (vandal) 21:41, Jun 9, 2005 <small>text attribution by --VANDAL and (Thanksgiving-) TURKEY[[User:Tabib|Tabib]] 14:00, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC). </small> |
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To the author - since when Abkhazia became southern Russia and is disputed? It's de facto independent, but for the entire world, it's still part of Georgia. |
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Rather than delete the map, I think it should be identified as which specific moment in time it describes. I do however think it encyclopedic that the map notes that Armenia was once a large country in the region, and that there was a nation named [[Albania]] there as well. [[User:-Ril-|<nowiki>~~</nowiki><nowiki>~~</nowiki>]] 11:45, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:Ril, probably you've seen the slanders directed against me in this page and in many other pages. These are previously banned vandals Rovoam and possibly Baku Ibne/LIGerasimova. For details, you may find it useful to see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Baku_Ibne%2C_et_al.#Final_decision ArbCom decision on these two vandals]. They'll do their best to deceive and confuse other editors and to disrupt Wikipedia, so I ask you to be very attentive to such edits. |
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:Now, coming to this "map", the problem is that this map is absolutely incorrect, and does not depict a specific timeframe, because, even when Armenia's borders were so big, at those times, Colchis and Albania's borders were not the way they are depicted in that "map". Furthermore, as I said, this map has nothing to do with this entry, because this entry is about the Caucasus region as such. I already told Panonian, the author of this map, who btw has done excellent job in Wikipedia preparing various maps, that I will sent him more correct academic maps so that he would prepare a more correct map which would be placed in a more appropriate entries such as [[Caucasian Albania]], [[Colchis]] etc.--[[User:Tabib|Tabib]] 14:03, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC) |
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::I am not an expert on this region by any means, but I have found the bickering on this article to be very disappointing. I have not read a great deal on the Caucasus region, so I cannot vouch for this "historical" map's accuracy one way or another. However, Tabib has been mostly diplomatic regarding this issue. It has been mentioned that this map has been published by Britannica- could someone link to it so that we all could see it? |
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::Also, I am interested in this statement by Tabib and believe it deserves more discussion: "So, my point is, considering that this map relates to a certain historical period, and moreover, depicts that historical period incorrectly, why should we put this historical map at all?" [[User:Olessi|Olessi]] 23:16, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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== definition not correct == |
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''"The Caucasus or Caucasia is a region in Eurasia bordered on the north by Russia, on the southwest by Turkey, on the west by the Black Sea, on the east by the Caspian Sea, and on the south by Iran."'' I think the defintion is not correct. The region is not bordered with Turkey's and Russia's borders as it is bordered with Black Sea, Caspian and Iran. So a reader may get a meaning that Caucasia ends with border of Russia and Turkey, which is not correct part of these countries are included in Caucasian region. We should rephrase the first definition sentence.-[[User:ArazZeynili|ArazZeynili]]<sub>[[User_talk:ArazZeynili|talk]]</sub><sup>[[Special:Contributions/ArazZeynili|contrib]]</sup><sub>19:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)</sub> |
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== Another "incorrect" maps == |
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For those who expressed an interest in the subject about "incorrect" maps, here are some links to more historical maps of the same area: |
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== Image addition? == |
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* http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/a/ab/Armenia.jpg |
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* http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/StraboArmenia.jpg |
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An image of this particular region would be swell... not just maps. - [[User:Tbone0204|tbone]] ([[User talk:Tbone0204|talk]]) 14:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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Here are some more "incorrect" maps... |
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You should remove the biblical references. The human genome project proves where modern man originated from over almost 200,000 years ago. From Adam to Noah there was only a thousand years. Anyone living in the Caucus region would have been far removed from the geneology of Noah by at least 190,000 years. Even the ability of humans to speak and spread oral history is relatively new, and the ability to write is even newer. The Garden of Eden was located at the convergence of three rivers near southern Iraq, which is where the Sumarian civilization first began to write. The migration from there to the Caucasus region would have taken thousands of years. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/63.110.172.227|63.110.172.227]] ([[User talk:63.110.172.227|talk]]) 06:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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[[Image:StraboArmenia.jpg]] |
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== Caucasian == |
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[[Image:Armeniamap1907.jpg]] |
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I accidentally posted the following question in South Caucasus' talk page, but meant to have it here:<BR> |
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[[Image:1760.jpg]] |
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'''"Does this article need to address whether or not South Caucasus has any link at all, direct or indirect, to the nationality known as "Caucasian"? (I confess that I have no idea.) Thanks."''' [[Special:Contributions/98.202.38.225|98.202.38.225]] ([[User talk:98.202.38.225|talk]]) 15:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC) |
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There's no such a thing as nationality Caucasian. Maybe you meant race? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mchedela|Mchedela]] ([[User talk:Mchedela|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mchedela|contribs]]) 07:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Demographics and ethno-linguistic families == |
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[[Image:1831.jpg]] |
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I'm perplexed how the article jumps from the Georgians to the Chechens in terms of largest ethnolinguistic groups. I think you missed the Armenians and the Azeris. I suggest a little research an re-writing. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.205.53.50|65.205.53.50]] ([[User talk:65.205.53.50|talk]]) 01:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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[[Image:1842.jpg]] |
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:The article says "The largest peoples of the Caucasian language family..." — Armenian and Azeri don't belong to the Caucasian languages. Of course, there's no such thing as "one Caucasian language family", but it's very probable that it refers to people with languages indigenous to the Caucasus region. — [[User:N-true|N-true]] ([[User talk:N-true|talk]]) 12:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC) |
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Although, Armenian is classified as a Indo-European language and Azeri, Turkic, it's still misleading not to discuss them when the page is a discussion of the whole territory of the Caucasus. I quickly found this link for info, but there may be others: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Caucasian-languages <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.205.53.50|65.205.53.50]] ([[User talk:65.205.53.50|talk]]) 15:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Impressive Array of historical maps! == |
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The contribution of these maps to the article is invaluable and constitutes a very educative reference for the WIKIPEDIA audience!! I am very greatful for the new insight gained from this material--[[User:Pantherarosa|Pantherarosa]] 00:57, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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==Etymology== |
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Any idea what the etymology of the word Caucasia or Caucasus is? I couldn't find anything in dictionaries. Thanks. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.106.83.224|71.106.83.224]] ([[User talk:71.106.83.224|talk]]) 05:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Hi there this part of the article has some syntax issues both in English as well as Persian (where you read kuhkāf in stead of kāfkuh). [[User:Wikijamin|Wikijamin]] ([[User talk:Wikijamin|talk]]) 00:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC) |
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And what is this malarky? "Etymology |
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== More links for the historical maps == |
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The word Caucasus derives from Caucas, the ancestor of the North Caucasians.[2] He was a son of Togarmah, grandson of Biblical Noah's third son Japheth. According to Leonti Mroveli after the fall of the Tower of Babel and the division of humanity into different languages, Togarmah settled with his sons: Kartlos, Haik (Georgian:ჰაოს, Haos), Movakos, Lekos (Lak people), Heros (Kindgom of Hereti), Kavkas, and Egros (Kingdom of Egrisi) between two inaccessible mountains, presumably Mount Ararat and Mount Elbrus." |
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Come on religion based hearsay as an etymology? |
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---I find the above comment funny. Seriously though, the statement of the name descended from a folkloric person should not be presented as a cold hard fact unless there is other evidence to support it. I am surprised this got by. Few English speaking people probably read about the Caucasus. I read a little Russian, but not much. It looks like the Etymology section of the Russian wiki page mentions Herodotus. [[Special:Contributions/74.101.163.144|74.101.163.144]] ([[User talk:74.101.163.144|talk]]) 22:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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More ancient maps can be found on links from the following Web Site: |
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Etymonline says: "Caucasus: mountain range between Europe and the Middle East, from Gk. kaukhasis, said by Pliny ("Natural History," book six, chap. XVII) to be from a Scythian word similar to kroy-khasis, lit. "(the mountain) ice-shining, white with snow." But possibly from a Pelasgian root *kau- meaning "mountain."[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=c&p=12] <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.91.190.226|66.91.190.226]] ([[User talk:66.91.190.226|talk]]) 19:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/main.html |
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==between Europe, Asia, and the Middle East== |
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* http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/cama_1840.jpg |
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It surely isn't between these places. It must surely be in one, some or all of them. Also, the middle east is in Asia. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.140.57.113|81.140.57.113]] ([[User talk:81.140.57.113|talk]]) 11:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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* http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/map.jpg |
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* http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/armenia.jpg |
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* etc. |
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== Ethnic Groups In Caucasus Region 2009.jpg == |
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==On Vandal Rovoam's disruption, false map and [[User:Pantherarosa]] == |
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first politologia should explain [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caucasus&diff=355121648&oldid=354943305 this] edit.--[[User:Bouron|Bouron]] ([[User talk:Bouron|talk]]) 08:16, 15 April 2010 (UTC) |
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First of all, I want to inform all editors that the anon which is disrupting this entry and many other entries in Wikipedia by spurious edits and various forms of vandalism (blatant and overt) is actually the '''well-known [[User:Rovoam|vandal Rovoam]].''' As you can also see from the disclaimer, he's been vandalizing Wikipedia for more than 3 months (!) now, and many pages were vprotected because of him. |
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:And please explain [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caucasus&curid=39282&diff=361043956&oldid=359913986 this edit]. --[[User:Kober|Kober]]<sup>[[User talk:Kober|Talk]]</sup> 08:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC) |
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This person adds this incorrect map simply out of <u>his feeling of revenge against me</u> (for whatever reasons he has in mind), and he uses the lack of knowledge amongst other editors for manipulating with their opinions, confusing and deceiving them. Just read the disclaimer and look through the history logs of some of the entries mentioned in the disclaimer and you'll understand what's going on. |
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::Why I should explain it. File:Caucasus-ethnic en.svg was put to the article earlier. compare there dates. |
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Second, the maps posted by [[User:Pantherarosa]] are <u>simply copied from the other talkpage.</u> Most of these maps were posted before by Rovoam when he has not decsended to blatant vandalism yet. You can see them here ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh/Archive1#Armenia_and_Albania_on_the_old_maps_.28ONLY_MAPS.29]). These maps were posted in the context of my previous discussions (or rather disputes) with Rovoam and by these maps Rovoam actually tried to substantiate some of his POV arguments, not realizing that these maps in fact disproved all his allegations. I have sufficiently commented on these maps in the context of discussions on Nagorno-Karabakh in my message here ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh/Archive1#Maps_comment]). |
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:(While I have indeed voiced my appreciation for the educative value of above maps, I have '''NOT posted any maps''' here!! What are you whining about??)--[[User:Pantherarosa|Pantherarosa]] 20:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:: Lets not to start edit war. we have talk page to discuss new edits what is politologias edit.--[[User:Bouron|Bouron]] ([[User talk:Bouron|talk]]) 08:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC) |
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In short, I want to reiterate what I have said before, the '''"map" of Caucasus is, first of all wrong''', i.e. the borders of Albania, Armenia and Cholchis are shown incorrectly, and '''second, and most important, this map simply has nothing to do with this entry''', simply because this entry is about the Caucasus as a region today and not about some contentious historical period. I ask all other editors to be extremely attentive to Rovoam's vandalism and revert all his spurious edits immediately. |
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:Why would this entry be restricted to the Caucasus "as a region of today" ??? --[[User:Pantherarosa|Pantherarosa]] 20:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:::Politologia's edit does not contradict any of Wikipedia's policies, while your's does. You have reverted him/her several times without any explanation given on talk.--[[User:Kober|Kober]]<sup>[[User talk:Kober|Talk]]</sup> 08:58, 9 May 2010 (UTC) |
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'''As to [[User:Pantherarosa]]''', this person has intervened here and sides with vandal Rovoam, and his motives are clear. This person just like Rovoam has attacked me in the past. Just recently, this person insulted me out of blue [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ATabib&diff=15038093&oldid=15019306] and later when warned by me and by [[User:Fred Bauder]] tried to spuriously delete comments from his talkpage ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APantherarosa&diff=0&oldid=15286402]) |
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::::I reverted her one time. see history.--[[User:Bouron|Bouron]] ([[User talk:Bouron|talk]]) 09:47, 9 May 2010 (UTC) |
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: Posting pertinent edits constitutes "siding" with '''anybody'' ??'. Is this article about you?? or me??? --[[User:Pantherarosa|Pantherarosa]] 20:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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I was waiting for explanations for politologia's map is better CIA's map. --[[User:Bouron|Bouron]] ([[User talk:Bouron|talk]]) 17:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC) |
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==File:Bandera de Nakhitxevan.svg Nominated for Deletion== |
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| An image used in this article, [[commons:File:Bandera de Nakhitxevan.svg|File:Bandera de Nakhitxevan.svg]], has been nominated for deletion at [[Wikimedia Commons]] in the following category: ''Deletion requests October 2011'' |
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;What should I do? |
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''Don't panic''; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. |
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* If the image is [[WP:NFCC|non-free]] then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) |
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* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no [[WP:FUR|fair use rationale]] then it cannot be uploaded or used. |
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''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --[[User:CommonsNotificationBot|CommonsNotificationBot]] ([[User talk:CommonsNotificationBot|talk]]) 05:13, 12 October 2011 (UTC) |
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== On Vandal Tabib's disruption, who failed to prove his wrong POV == |
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Tabib failed to explain why these historical maps are incorrect. Instead he is trying to attack me personally, changing the subject of discussion. |
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==File:XinaligAZE.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion== |
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| An image used in this article, [[commons:File:XinaligAZE.jpg|File:XinaligAZE.jpg]], has been nominated for speedy deletion at [[Wikimedia Commons]] for the following reason: ''Copyright violations'' |
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;What should I do? |
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''Don't panic''; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. |
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* If the image is [[WP:NFCC|non-free]] then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) |
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* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no [[WP:FUR|fair use rationale]] then it cannot be uploaded or used. |
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* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try [[commons:COM:UR|Commons Undeletion Request]] |
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''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --[[User:CommonsNotificationBot|CommonsNotificationBot]] ([[User talk:CommonsNotificationBot|talk]]) 21:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC) |
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This discussion page is about Caucasus, not about user Rovoam. Tabib treat everybody who disagrees with his POV as a vandal. This is because he has failed to explain his point of view. [[User:64.136.2.254]] ([[User_talk:64.136.2.254#Regular_disclaimer_on_vandal_User:Rovoam|vandal Rovoam]]) 16:49, Jun 16, 2005 <small> text attribution by --[[User:Tabib|Tabib]] 12:07, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)</small> |
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==File:Caucasus.png Nominated for Deletion== |
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| An image used in this article, [[commons:File:Caucasus.png|File:Caucasus.png]], has been nominated for deletion at [[Wikimedia Commons]] in the following category: ''Deletion requests April 2012'' |
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;What should I do? |
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''Don't panic''; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. |
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* If the image is [[WP:NFCC|non-free]] then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) |
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* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no [[WP:FUR|fair use rationale]] then it cannot be uploaded or used. |
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant [[commons:File:Caucasus.png|image page (File:Caucasus.png)]] |
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''This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image'' --[[User:CommonsNotificationBot|CommonsNotificationBot]] ([[User talk:CommonsNotificationBot|talk]]) 22:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC) |
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== Map == |
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The map used in this article, claiming to show the Caucasus, shows only the [[North Caucasus]] plus [[Georgia (country)|Georgia]]. In addition, it appears that it is a copyright violation, and likely to be deleted. Can anyone find a suitable map that covers the whole region? [[User:Skinsmoke|Skinsmoke]] ([[User talk:Skinsmoke|talk]]) 23:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC) |
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:Map substituted. It's not exactly the best map, but is better than anything else available on Wikimedia Commons. [[User:Skinsmoke|Skinsmoke]] ([[User talk:Skinsmoke|talk]]) 23:13, 8 July 2012 (UTC) |
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== Partially recognised states == |
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South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Nagomo Karabakh are not independent states and should not be listed as such at the beginning of the article. I realise they've been put in italics to indicate that they are partially recognised, but they should also be listed under the countries they officially belong to. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.102.43.72|81.102.43.72]] ([[User talk:81.102.43.72|talk]]) 23:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:They're all functionally independent. It makes more sense to put them as italicised states than italicised autonomous regions, especially as both Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia don't at all match administrative divisions of their claimant. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 17:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC) |
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It doesn't matter if you consider them to be functionally independent. These areas are officially part of Georgia and Azerbaijan and this is not acknowledged in the list. It's fine to mention that they are partially recognised as independent states but to have no mention of the countries these places officially belong to is ridiculous. [[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 09:46, 5 October 2012 (UTC) |
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:Good point. We should add that to the note at the bottom. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 10:15, 5 October 2012 (UTC) |
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The note at the bottom doesn't tell us which countries these areas officially belong to. The only sensible (and neat) way to include all the information is to list the areas under their respective countries and mention in the footnote that they are partially recognised as independent. |
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There is also an NPOV issue in listing unrecognised countries as sovereign states in the main list and only mentioning their disputed status in a footnote. It should be the other way round. The official information should be in the main list and the unofficial recognition should be mentioned in the footnote. Seems pretty obvious that the official info. should take precedence. [[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 11:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC) |
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:Hence "we should add". I've now done this. Official information is not more neutral than unofficial information, and actually has far more reason to hold a POV. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 17:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC) |
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Not in an encyclopaedia. I still think it's dumb (and far less neutral) to have unrecognised states listed as sovereign nations with their true status only mentioned in a footnote, but I don't care sufficiently to change it. |
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[[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 16:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC) |
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== Abkhazia, Karabakh == |
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Abkhazia and karabakh is recognized by UN, EU Nato and by 99% of world government as parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan. excluding Russia nauru vanautu tuvalu and venezuela. Chipmunksdavis u are provoking separatism and radicalism, if karabakh is listed as country than Chechnya must be listed as country too, Ingushetia, Dagestan Circassia Kabardia must be listed as countries too. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:176.73.210.231|176.73.210.231]] ([[User talk:176.73.210.231|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/176.73.210.231|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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:Chechnya, Ingushetia, etc. have no strong de facto control over their territories. More information can be found at [[sovereignty]] and [[list of states with limited recognition]]. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 15:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC) |
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Chimpunkdavis is vandal person. Abkhazia and Karabakh are official territories of Azerbaijan and Georgia.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:176.73.208.159|176.73.208.159]] ([[User talk:176.73.208.159|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/176.73.208.159|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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For crying out loud, now Nagomo Karabakh is under azerbaijan but the georgian ones are still listed as independent. So now it's both wrong an inconsistent. It really shouldn't be this hard to compile a list of countries. I'm fixing it to be in accordance with official statuses and mentioning the partial recognition in the footnote. Hopefully that will be the end of this. [[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 03:06, 21 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:That was another IP. The official status of NKR and South Ossetia according to Azerbaijan and Georgia is that they don't even exist as administrative entities, despite what our table would imply. The current footnote even notes which countries the breakaway states are considered to be part of. Wikipedia doesn't just follow official positions. See [[WP:Official name]] as an example. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 11:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC) |
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National borders and statuses are arbitrary man made concepts. There is no metaphysically true position here. Official international recognition is the only standard we have to work from. I have the united nations and 99% of the world on my side. On your side you have recognition from a handful of nations, some of which are not even recognised themselves. Give me one good reason why your version of events should take precedence over the official version. [[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 23:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:It's not my version of events, it's the reality on the ground. You don't need a metaphysical position to say that Georgia has absolutely no control in Sukhumi, or Azerbaijan in Stepanakert. As much as the Nagorno-Karabakh border may be a man made concept, it's also a bloody long trench in the ground. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 00:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Yout perception of the situation on the ground is not an objective standard. This is an article about a geopolitical area. The question is whether these places are independent sovereign nations; not whether Tbilisi has real control over them. There's more to being an independent sovereign nation than having control.[[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 00:39, 26 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:It's not my perception of the situation, it is the actual situation, which is pretty objective, as far as standards go. Please see the [[Declarative theory of statehood]]. There's more than one way to define a state. The dispute over their statehood is indicated by the italics, and by the footnote. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 11:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC) |
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And the dispute over their statehood is mentioned in my version in the footnote. A footnote is where it belongs. The fact that abkhazia and south ossettia enjoy a high degree of autonomy does not mean that they are free states with the same status as Russia or Georgia. They should not be on the same level of the list as them. They are bound, by international law, to Georgia and should be listed under it. Their de facto independence is noteworthy, which is why it's included in the footnote. Nagorno-Karabakh is on even shakier ground because it's not even recognised by any real country. [[Special:Contributions/86.17.19.215|86.17.19.215]] ([[User talk:86.17.19.215|talk]]) 15:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't "enjoy a high degree of autonomy", they function completely separately from Georgia. Euphemisms won't change this. Placing them on the level of subdivisions gives the misleading impression that they function as such, when they are, as you say, de facto independent. Nagorno-Karabakh is also completely independent, totally outside of the control of the Azerbaijani government. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 18:30, 26 November 2012 (UTC) |
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It seems completely clear that these entities should be under their own flag because of the fact that they are de facto independent. For me, thats it. We,as wikipedia cannot take a side in this dispute - simply present things as they are. The fact is they exist and this should be represented. [[User:Outback the koala|Outback the koala]] ([[User talk:Outback the koala|talk]]) 02:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Agree on flags, but the main dispute here is whether they should be listed under their claimant states in the same way as the autonomous regions are, or in line with states (in both cases italicised). [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 12:28, 28 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::I would list them with states. If they are italicised then that would handle the dispute issue. [[User:Outback the koala|Outback the koala]] ([[User talk:Outback the koala|talk]]) 23:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:::If those breakaway regions are considered de-jure parts of certain states, that connection should be demonstrated. Completely detaching them I believe is wrong. [[User:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#464646">'''''Grand'''''</span>]][[User talk:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#808080">'''''master'''''</span>]] 17:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::::It's demonstrated in their being italicised, and explicitly noted, state by state, in the note below. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 18:22, 29 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:::::That may not be sufficient. Listing the unrecognized statelets in almost the same manner as de-jure states gives a wrong impression that they all have the same status. While the footnotes provide explanation of their status, the visual display kind of contradicts that. I think this causes most of objections. Italicising is not so much visible. I think the unrecognized entities should somehow be grouped together with the states they are recognized to be parts of. [[User:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#464646">'''''Grand'''''</span>]][[User talk:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#808080">'''''master'''''</span>]] 08:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::::::The italicising is part of the visual display, which in no way contradicts the note. Let's not belittle readers by assuming they can't put two and two together (3 including the map). [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 17:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC) |
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As Russian citizen, I can proove that Tbilisi has NO control over Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Georgian laws have no power in these regions, people of these regions don't have Georgian citizenship, they don't study Georgian language and there's no titles on this language; these territories have their own flag, coat of arms and hymn, own vehicle registration plates. As a national currency uses Russian ruble but not Georgian lari.[[Special:Contributions/217.66.156.142|217.66.156.142]] ([[User talk:217.66.156.142|talk]]) 08:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Clarification needed == |
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Perhaps there should be a <u>brief</u> [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]] mention of disputed territories in this region with a <nowiki>{{hatnote}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Further}}</nowiki> template: |
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:''For further information on disputed territories in this region, see [this], [that] and [the other].'' |
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::<small>-or-</small> |
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{{Further|This|That|The other}} |
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~E:[[Special:Contributions/74.60.29.141|74.60.29.141]] ([[User talk:74.60.29.141|talk]]) 10:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:There should probably be a section on states and disputed territories. We can just shift the list from the lead. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 12:21, 10 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== backward == |
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The following paragraph needs to be bumped ahead of the paragraph immediately above it: |
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"In modern times, the Caucasus became a region of war among the Ottoman Empire, Iran and Russia, and was eventually conquered by the latter (see Caucasian Wars)." |
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The article on Caucasian Wars says they took place between 1817–1864, which is a century before the 1918 conquest by the new Soviet Union. The indicated paragraph follows directly from the final sentence of the paragraph it should follow. |
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[[Special:Contributions/71.163.114.49|71.163.114.49]] ([[User talk:71.163.114.49|talk]]) 17:45, 25 June 2013 (UTC) |
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:{{Done}}, thanks! [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 19:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC) |
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== Possible copyright problem == |
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[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|left|50x50px|alt=|link=]] This article has been revised as part of [[WP:CCI|a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement]]. (See [[WP:Contributor copyright investigations/Tobby72|the investigation subpage]]) Earlier text must not be restored, ''unless'' it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyrighted]] text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of ''information'', but not as a source of ''sentences'' or ''phrases''. Accordingly, the material ''may'' be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original ''or'' [[Wikipedia:Plagiarism|plagiarize]] from that source. Please see our [[Wikipedia:NFC#Text|guideline on non-free text]] for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. <!--Signature-->[[User:Diannaa|Diannaa]] ([[User talk:Diannaa|talk]]) 01:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC) <!--{{CCI}} end--> |
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== This is a GORGEOUS article!!!! === |
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Just happened by it and wanted to say kudos... I love all the info, the flags, all the pictures, the terms in different languages, etc... Really well done! I'm nominating it for a Good Article. [[User:Wikimandia|Wikimandia]] ([[User talk:Wikimandia|talk]]) 21:46, 23 January 2015 (UTC) |
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== Added Kurdish and Ukrainian to Modern Endonyms == |
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Ukrainians/Cossacks and Kurds/Yazidis both have significant populations in the region, so I included Ukrainian and Kurdish to the Modern Endonyms subsection. [[User:Adorkable Corgi|Adorkable Corgi]] ([[User talk:Adorkable Corgi|talk]]) 08:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC) |
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[[People of the Caucasus]] and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic-Ukrainians.jpg Ethnic Ukrainians] [[User:Adorkable Corgi|Adorkable Corgi]] ([[User talk:Adorkable Corgi|talk]]) 09:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC) |
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== Caucasus region == |
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One explanation for my [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caucasus&diff=701853831&oldid=701732219 edit]. Caucasus is located in between Iran and Turkey. But that does not mean Iran and Turkey a part of the Caucasus. [[User:Bruskom|<b style="color:navy">Bruskom<span style="color:red"></span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:Bruskom|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 03:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC) <small>'''''<-- Blocked sock of [[User:Iraqi man10]]'''''</small> |
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==On Transcription of Tehraner Persian (Received Pronunciation) قفقاز== |
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Dear [[User:LouisAragon]], Generally the letter "q" stands for the phoneme /q/ (Voiceless uvular stop). There is no such a phoneme in Tehraner Persian. The Perso-Arabic letter "qaf" in a typical RP of Tehraner Persian syllable structure pronounces /ɢ/ or /ɣ/ (intervocalic positions). On the other hand, despite the historical Persian vowel system that the vowel pairs differ in length /a/ vs. /a:/ (quantitative distinction), in RP Tehraner Persian they differ in quality /æ/ (near-open front unrounded vowel) vs. /ɒ/ (open back rounded vowel). So "Ghæfghaz" is a better Romanisation/Transcription for قفقاز. X.goodarzie 13:30, 1 March 2016 (UTC) |
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== Geographic Map == |
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Current geographic map is required to be changed. Regions are labeled with nor current legal names neither ones in any other period. The region which is on north east part of Turkish Republic is labeled with utterly irrelevant name. This map is incorrect and inappropriate. It is required to be changed. [[User:Aruperusaidu|Aruperusaidu]] ([[User talk:Aruperusaidu|talk]]) 06:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC) |
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== Partially or unrecognized states == |
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Armenia is not recognized by the Pakistani government, so we must add Armenia to ''Partially or unrecognized states''. |
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''Pakistan was the first country along with Turkey to recognize Azerbaijan after its independence. Pakistan does not recognize Armenia and will never do so. We speak with one voice on NagornoKarabakh. On 14th March, 2008 we together passed the first Resolution 882 on Nagorno-Karabakh. Azerbaijan has supported us on Kashmir and we are thankful to you for that.'' |
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'''Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed''' |
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''Pakistan has not recognized Armenia nor established diplomatic relations with that country'' |
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'''Eldar Ibrahimov''' |
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<ref>http://www.today.az/news/politics/30102.html</ref><ref>https://web.archive.org/web/20090219074354/http://foreignaffairscommittee.org/includes/content_files/Report%2021%20-%20Visit%20to%20Azerbaijan.pdf</ref> [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 14:23, 8 July 2016 (UTC) |
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:That section is for countries that either have no recognition or some. Armenia is recognized by every other country in the world. Also partially means: only in part; to a limited extent. How is one country out of close to 200 partially?[[User:Ninetoyadome|Ninetoyadome]] ([[User talk:Ninetoyadome|talk]]) 18:12, 10 July 2016 (UTC) |
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::Armenia is not recognized by all countries. Get your facts! [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 14:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC) |
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:::According to Pakistan, they are the only country that doesnt recognize Armenia. http://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-the-only-country-not-recognizing-armenia.298703/ Maybe you should get your facts straight. [[User:Ninetoyadome|Ninetoyadome]] ([[User talk:Ninetoyadome|talk]]) 16:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC) |
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::::@Beshogur; I hope you're actually joking with your proposal, because otherwise you're blatantly violating [[WP:GAME]]. Bests - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 17:45, 11 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== English-language Caucasus map? == |
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Is anyone able to make an English-language version of the [[commons:File:Caucasus_topographic_map-fr.svg|French-language Caucasus SVG map]] used in this article? I added the English translations of the French places names in the comments section of [[en:Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Map_workshop#English-translated_version_of_Caucasus_SVG_map|this Graphics Lab request]]. Thank you! [[User:Ketone16|Ketone16]] ([[User talk:Ketone16|talk]]) 20:37, 16 July 2016 (UTC) |
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:Never mind; I created my own English version and added it to the article. [[User:Ketone16|Ketone16]] ([[User talk:Ketone16|talk]]) 04:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== References == |
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{{reflist-talk}} [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 04:47, 18 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090328225817/http://caucasus-spiders.info/introduction/checklists/ to http://caucasus-spiders.info/introduction/checklists/ |
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== Demonym/adjective? == |
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Should it be included in the infobox? And which one? It's either Caucasian or Caucasic, or both.--[[Special:Contributions/46.172.130.105|46.172.130.105]] ([[User talk:46.172.130.105|talk]]) 23:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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I have just modified one external link on [[Caucasus]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=793375305 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080813013133/http://www.oc.unito.it/en/index.html to http://www.oc.unito.it/en/index.html |
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== Infobox == |
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{{ping|Setenay88}} I accept that [[Iran]] and [[Turkey]] are not in the Caucusus, but then, do you know to reformat the infobox? [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 04:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC) |
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Never mind, {{u|Off-shell}} fixed it. [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 07:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2018 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Caucasus|answered=yes}} |
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Please add the flags of Iran and Turkey, in the right hand side table under the map of the region. There should be six countries which are Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Russia, Turkey, not four. [[User:Jacob485|Jacob485]] ([[User talk:Jacob485|talk]]) 04:08, 5 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Iran and Turkey are not Caucasus. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">—[[User:LeoFrank|<span style="background:#8b008b;color:#FFFAFA"><b> LeoFrank </b></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:LeoFrank|<span style="color:#006400">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></span> 07:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC) |
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== Map is misleading since it obscures most of [[North Caucasus]] == |
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@[[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] I don't know how you can say a map which misleads readers as to the extent of the region is more "useful". It's the first image they will see in the entire article and it clearly infers the region is much smaller then it actually is. Also you can't see any of the labels at the size it is in the infobox, that's why ''locator'' maps typically go in the infobox and more detailed maps go in the article body. I can't find a detailed map showing the whole region, but I'm pretty sure it's far more preferred that we have a map which shows the actual extent of the region as the first thing the reader is going to see. [[User:Rob984|Rob984]] ([[User talk:Rob984|talk]]) 14:53, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Rob984}} I understand what you mean, but it can be argued both ways. Yeah, a detailed map showing the whole region would be ideal. Anyways, lets see what other editors of this topic area think {{ping|Yerevantsi}} {{ping|Ymblanter}} {{ping|Kober}}. Do you prefer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus#/media/File:Caucasus_topographic_map-en.svg this map] for the infobox or [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caucasus&oldid=850749199#/media/File:Kaukasus.jpg this one]? - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 20:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:: I do not have a strong opinion on this, any of the two maps would be fine.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 20:11, 24 July 2018 (UTC) |
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== Recent reverts == |
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{{u|LouisAragon}} I'm adding quotes from the Britannica source now but in the future, but I don't think you reviewed the Britannica source before reverting. Please make sure the content is actually verified by the inline citations. If there are other reliable sources with different views we can discuss that here, but we can't cite Britannica for the statement that {{tq|A less common definition also includes portions of northwestern [[Iran]] and northeastern [[Turkey]].}} when Britannica itself uses that definition. (The 1910 Britannica doesn't, but the most recent one that we've cited ''does'': |
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{{tq2|West of the Kura-Aras Lowland rises the Lesser Caucasus range, which is extended southward by the Dzhavakhet Range and the Armenian Highland, the latter extending southwestward into Turkey.}} |
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Britannica is also a pretty heavyweight source, so whatever sources are brought to bear on this would need to be equally authoritative. I'm absolutely not going to get behind miscited sources the way it was done in this article.[[User:Seraphim System|<span style="font-family:Helvetica; color:#503753; text-shadow:#b3b3cc 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">'''Seraphim System'''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Seraphim System|<span style="color:#009900">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC) |
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== Polinarok == |
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I am sorry I take back Polinarok's changes because I see already LouisAragon earlier takes back same changes for "POV" and Polinarok gave reason "Caucasus is a borderland" but current article already says this. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Agamede|Agamede]] ([[User talk:Agamede#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Agamede|contribs]]) 00:18, 10 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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* [[commons:File:Gubernias del Caucaso.png|Gubernias del Caucaso.png]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-04-15T07:17:24.981665 | Gubernias del Caucaso.png --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Shliahov|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 07:17, 15 April 2019 (UTC) |
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== Countries of the Caucasus == |
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I added three countries to the list, since parts of Iran, Iraq and Turkey are also considered by many as being part of the Transcaucasus and therefore, part of the Caucasus. I quote, from [https://books.google.fr/books?id=P_2NAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=parts+iran+turkey+in+transcaucasia&source=bl&ots=OBUKTaWOoj&sig=uTGnsA_-XZncg3AQOnWC9m8D2Tw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiszc7b7dPeAhVPOhoKHeV5BqMQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=parts%20iran%20turkey%20in%20transcaucasia&f=false this source], page 72 : |
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"''Transcaucasia is in many respects part of the Middle East and more specifically of a broader area encompassing parts of northwestern Iran, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey.''"<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:purple">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 22:37, 29 May 2019 (UTC) |
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* [[commons:File:Georgian empire with tributaries.png|Georgian empire with tributaries.png]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-08-14T21:52:29.701551 | Georgian empire with tributaries.png --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Georgian empire with tributaries.png|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 21:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC) |
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== Armenian and Circassian genocide == |
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I see nothing about the Armenian genocide in this article. This, and to a lesser extent, the Circassian genocide, are important to the history of this region.[[User:Naddruf|Naddruf]] ([[User talk:Naddruf|talk]]) 03:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC) |
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* [[commons:File:Caucasus-ethnic en.svg|Caucasus-ethnic en.svg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2020-10-14T06:33:02.189715 | Caucasus-ethnic en.svg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Caucasus-ethnic en.svg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 06:33, 14 October 2020 (UTC) |
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==Autonomous republics and federal regions== |
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As per the USSR administration, the autonomous republics and oblasts are referred to the regions with limited autonomy, not the ones with full independence. This concept was applied to all non-abolished autonomous entities after the union republics became independent in 1991. The term "autonomous" does not mean the central government has no control over the territory, but rather it means that the territory has certain autonomy. Georgia and Azerbaijan abolished South Ossetia Autonomous Oblast and Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast respectively in 1990-1991. Officially there are no such autonomies recognized by the central governments. I propose to remove Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) from the list of "Autonomous republics and Federal regions", but to retain that under "Partially recognized states". Same is already applied to South Ossetia in this article and why not to do the same with Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) for accuracy and consistency? [[User:Kheo17|KHE'O]] ([[User talk:Kheo17|talk]]) 18:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC) |
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:Seems that we both have our definitions of autonomy relating to this topic, albeit both seem to be correct (Artsakh is ultimately an autonomous country). But meh, it's a minor gripe, go ahead, I retract my objection. --[[User:HistoryofIran|HistoryofIran]] ([[User talk:HistoryofIran|talk]]) 19:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC) |
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:: Thanks --[[User:Kheo17|KHE'O]] ([[User talk:Kheo17|talk]]) 19:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC) |
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== Artsakh Autonomy == |
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{{ping|HistoryofIran|Kheo17}} Hello. It seems there is an active edit war ongoing on the article. Please try to settle it here. I accidentally got involved when I did the same edit, not knowing that it was subject to an edit war between you guys. Personally, it doesn't make much sense for Artsakh to be in the list of Autonomous territories since, firstly, [[Republic of Artsakh]] is a breakaway, de-facto independent state, not an autonomous republic and within Azerbaijan's legislature, there is no autonomy given yet to Nagorno-Karabakh (it was [[Law on Abolishment of Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast|abolished]] in 1991). So, currently, only autonomous region in Azerbaijan is [[Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic]]. If Azerbaijan controls Artsakh or not doesn't matter since a territory's autonomy is decided by its de-jure country (and not even Artsakh claims it's autonomous since it claims to be independent). — [[User:CuriousGolden|<b style="color:#c29d25">Curious</b><b style="color:#c29d25">Golden</b>]] <b style="solid black"> [[User talk:CuriousGolden|(T·]][[Special:Contribs/CuriousGolden|C)]] </b> 19:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC) |
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: Thank you for a third party view. --[[User:Kheo17|KHE'O]] ([[User talk:Kheo17|talk]]) 19:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC) |
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== uzbekistan == |
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uzbekistan in part of kavkaz so why isn’t it on the page? [[Special:Contributions/2A02:1810:2426:3C00:DC55:6014:3620:3E8F|2A02:1810:2426:3C00:DC55:6014:3620:3E8F]] ([[User talk:2A02:1810:2426:3C00:DC55:6014:3620:3E8F|talk]]) 22:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC) |
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The population in the "total" column is incorrect. [[Special:Contributions/172.220.35.10|172.220.35.10]] ([[User talk:172.220.35.10|talk]]) 17:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Caucasus
Iran is not a Caucasian nation, the Caucasus ends at the border with Iran.Azerbaijani 21:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I took Iran out, because as far as I know, no part of Iran is in the Caucasus. The border with Iran marks the end of the Caucasus and the beginning of the Iranian plateau (relatively ofcourse).Azerbaijani 21:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Anyone who considers Greece, the Caucasus or anything in that region European, seriously needs to actually live in these places to appreciate their profound ignorance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.81.209 (talk) 14:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
- Greece not European? What the heck do you mean by that? It was the Greeks who came up with the concept of Europe in the first place! Wardog (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Europe is an invented continent. It's really just part of the larger Eurasian land mass. But based on conventional definitions Greece is clearly European. In fact, it was the Greeks who invented the idea of Europe as a separate continent. They considered themselves Europeans back then and still do today. So by all accounts, they are more "European" than anyone else. They symbolize the origins of the concept of Europe. Now do tell us how Greece is not European and how one can realize this by living there? What, just because it has some cultural differences than other parts of Europe? Do you think all European cultures are the same? Europe is not a monolith. Of course there is going to be differences between regions. It's a highly diverse and fragmented place. Is France like Latvia? Is Ireland like Romania? Is Finland like Italy? By your logic Hindu India is not part of "Asia" because it doesn't adhere to the Islamic and Confucian traditions that dominate the continent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheyCallMeTheEditor (talk • contribs) 22:31, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Ethno-Linguistic groups in the Caucasus region- that map is totally wrong. It shows in eastern Turkey language is Kurdish. But in East Turkey there are 3 million Kurdish, and 25 million Turkish. So, what is it? just a biased map... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.228.61.2 (talk) 12:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Image
A more recent map should be used here to show current countries BigEyedFish (talk) 07:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the proposal and think this image is suitable. As caucasus is a geographical region this picture is more suitable for the article that the other images on the wikicommons which are political maps mostly. -ArazZeynilitalkcontrib19:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
To the author - since when Abkhazia became southern Russia and is disputed? It's de facto independent, but for the entire world, it's still part of Georgia.
definition not correct
"The Caucasus or Caucasia is a region in Eurasia bordered on the north by Russia, on the southwest by Turkey, on the west by the Black Sea, on the east by the Caspian Sea, and on the south by Iran." I think the defintion is not correct. The region is not bordered with Turkey's and Russia's borders as it is bordered with Black Sea, Caspian and Iran. So a reader may get a meaning that Caucasia ends with border of Russia and Turkey, which is not correct part of these countries are included in Caucasian region. We should rephrase the first definition sentence.-ArazZeynilitalkcontrib19:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Image addition?
An image of this particular region would be swell... not just maps. - tbone (talk) 14:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You should remove the biblical references. The human genome project proves where modern man originated from over almost 200,000 years ago. From Adam to Noah there was only a thousand years. Anyone living in the Caucus region would have been far removed from the geneology of Noah by at least 190,000 years. Even the ability of humans to speak and spread oral history is relatively new, and the ability to write is even newer. The Garden of Eden was located at the convergence of three rivers near southern Iraq, which is where the Sumarian civilization first began to write. The migration from there to the Caucasus region would have taken thousands of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.110.172.227 (talk) 06:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Caucasian
I accidentally posted the following question in South Caucasus' talk page, but meant to have it here:
"Does this article need to address whether or not South Caucasus has any link at all, direct or indirect, to the nationality known as "Caucasian"? (I confess that I have no idea.) Thanks." 98.202.38.225 (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
There's no such a thing as nationality Caucasian. Maybe you meant race? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mchedela (talk • contribs) 07:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Demographics and ethno-linguistic families
I'm perplexed how the article jumps from the Georgians to the Chechens in terms of largest ethnolinguistic groups. I think you missed the Armenians and the Azeris. I suggest a little research an re-writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.205.53.50 (talk) 01:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
- The article says "The largest peoples of the Caucasian language family..." — Armenian and Azeri don't belong to the Caucasian languages. Of course, there's no such thing as "one Caucasian language family", but it's very probable that it refers to people with languages indigenous to the Caucasus region. — N-true (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Although, Armenian is classified as a Indo-European language and Azeri, Turkic, it's still misleading not to discuss them when the page is a discussion of the whole territory of the Caucasus. I quickly found this link for info, but there may be others: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Caucasian-languages —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.205.53.50 (talk) 15:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Etymology
Any idea what the etymology of the word Caucasia or Caucasus is? I couldn't find anything in dictionaries. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.83.224 (talk) 05:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi there this part of the article has some syntax issues both in English as well as Persian (where you read kuhkāf in stead of kāfkuh). Wikijamin (talk) 00:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
And what is this malarky? "Etymology The word Caucasus derives from Caucas, the ancestor of the North Caucasians.[2] He was a son of Togarmah, grandson of Biblical Noah's third son Japheth. According to Leonti Mroveli after the fall of the Tower of Babel and the division of humanity into different languages, Togarmah settled with his sons: Kartlos, Haik (Georgian:ჰაოს, Haos), Movakos, Lekos (Lak people), Heros (Kindgom of Hereti), Kavkas, and Egros (Kingdom of Egrisi) between two inaccessible mountains, presumably Mount Ararat and Mount Elbrus." Come on religion based hearsay as an etymology?
---I find the above comment funny. Seriously though, the statement of the name descended from a folkloric person should not be presented as a cold hard fact unless there is other evidence to support it. I am surprised this got by. Few English speaking people probably read about the Caucasus. I read a little Russian, but not much. It looks like the Etymology section of the Russian wiki page mentions Herodotus. 74.101.163.144 (talk) 22:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Etymonline says: "Caucasus: mountain range between Europe and the Middle East, from Gk. kaukhasis, said by Pliny ("Natural History," book six, chap. XVII) to be from a Scythian word similar to kroy-khasis, lit. "(the mountain) ice-shining, white with snow." But possibly from a Pelasgian root *kau- meaning "mountain."[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.190.226 (talk) 19:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
between Europe, Asia, and the Middle East
It surely isn't between these places. It must surely be in one, some or all of them. Also, the middle east is in Asia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 11:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Ethnic Groups In Caucasus Region 2009.jpg
first politologia should explain this edit.--Bouron (talk) 08:16, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
- Why I should explain it. File:Caucasus-ethnic en.svg was put to the article earlier. compare there dates.
I was waiting for explanations for politologia's map is better CIA's map. --Bouron (talk) 17:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
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Map
The map used in this article, claiming to show the Caucasus, shows only the North Caucasus plus Georgia. In addition, it appears that it is a copyright violation, and likely to be deleted. Can anyone find a suitable map that covers the whole region? Skinsmoke (talk) 23:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- Map substituted. It's not exactly the best map, but is better than anything else available on Wikimedia Commons. Skinsmoke (talk) 23:13, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Partially recognised states
South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Nagomo Karabakh are not independent states and should not be listed as such at the beginning of the article. I realise they've been put in italics to indicate that they are partially recognised, but they should also be listed under the countries they officially belong to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.43.72 (talk) 23:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
- They're all functionally independent. It makes more sense to put them as italicised states than italicised autonomous regions, especially as both Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia don't at all match administrative divisions of their claimant. CMD (talk) 17:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if you consider them to be functionally independent. These areas are officially part of Georgia and Azerbaijan and this is not acknowledged in the list. It's fine to mention that they are partially recognised as independent states but to have no mention of the countries these places officially belong to is ridiculous. 86.17.19.215 (talk) 09:46, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
The note at the bottom doesn't tell us which countries these areas officially belong to. The only sensible (and neat) way to include all the information is to list the areas under their respective countries and mention in the footnote that they are partially recognised as independent. There is also an NPOV issue in listing unrecognised countries as sovereign states in the main list and only mentioning their disputed status in a footnote. It should be the other way round. The official information should be in the main list and the unofficial recognition should be mentioned in the footnote. Seems pretty obvious that the official info. should take precedence. 86.17.19.215 (talk) 11:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
- Hence "we should add". I've now done this. Official information is not more neutral than unofficial information, and actually has far more reason to hold a POV. CMD (talk) 17:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Not in an encyclopaedia. I still think it's dumb (and far less neutral) to have unrecognised states listed as sovereign nations with their true status only mentioned in a footnote, but I don't care sufficiently to change it.
86.17.19.215 (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Abkhazia, Karabakh
Abkhazia and karabakh is recognized by UN, EU Nato and by 99% of world government as parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan. excluding Russia nauru vanautu tuvalu and venezuela. Chipmunksdavis u are provoking separatism and radicalism, if karabakh is listed as country than Chechnya must be listed as country too, Ingushetia, Dagestan Circassia Kabardia must be listed as countries too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.73.210.231 (talk • contribs)
- Chechnya, Ingushetia, etc. have no strong de facto control over their territories. More information can be found at sovereignty and list of states with limited recognition. CMD (talk) 15:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Chimpunkdavis is vandal person. Abkhazia and Karabakh are official territories of Azerbaijan and Georgia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.73.208.159 (talk • contribs)
For crying out loud, now Nagomo Karabakh is under azerbaijan but the georgian ones are still listed as independent. So now it's both wrong an inconsistent. It really shouldn't be this hard to compile a list of countries. I'm fixing it to be in accordance with official statuses and mentioning the partial recognition in the footnote. Hopefully that will be the end of this. 86.17.19.215 (talk) 03:06, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- That was another IP. The official status of NKR and South Ossetia according to Azerbaijan and Georgia is that they don't even exist as administrative entities, despite what our table would imply. The current footnote even notes which countries the breakaway states are considered to be part of. Wikipedia doesn't just follow official positions. See WP:Official name as an example. CMD (talk) 11:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
National borders and statuses are arbitrary man made concepts. There is no metaphysically true position here. Official international recognition is the only standard we have to work from. I have the united nations and 99% of the world on my side. On your side you have recognition from a handful of nations, some of which are not even recognised themselves. Give me one good reason why your version of events should take precedence over the official version. 86.17.19.215 (talk) 23:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
- It's not my version of events, it's the reality on the ground. You don't need a metaphysical position to say that Georgia has absolutely no control in Sukhumi, or Azerbaijan in Stepanakert. As much as the Nagorno-Karabakh border may be a man made concept, it's also a bloody long trench in the ground. CMD (talk) 00:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Yout perception of the situation on the ground is not an objective standard. This is an article about a geopolitical area. The question is whether these places are independent sovereign nations; not whether Tbilisi has real control over them. There's more to being an independent sovereign nation than having control.86.17.19.215 (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
- It's not my perception of the situation, it is the actual situation, which is pretty objective, as far as standards go. Please see the Declarative theory of statehood. There's more than one way to define a state. The dispute over their statehood is indicated by the italics, and by the footnote. CMD (talk) 11:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
And the dispute over their statehood is mentioned in my version in the footnote. A footnote is where it belongs. The fact that abkhazia and south ossettia enjoy a high degree of autonomy does not mean that they are free states with the same status as Russia or Georgia. They should not be on the same level of the list as them. They are bound, by international law, to Georgia and should be listed under it. Their de facto independence is noteworthy, which is why it's included in the footnote. Nagorno-Karabakh is on even shakier ground because it's not even recognised by any real country. 86.17.19.215 (talk) 15:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
- Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't "enjoy a high degree of autonomy", they function completely separately from Georgia. Euphemisms won't change this. Placing them on the level of subdivisions gives the misleading impression that they function as such, when they are, as you say, de facto independent. Nagorno-Karabakh is also completely independent, totally outside of the control of the Azerbaijani government. CMD (talk) 18:30, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
It seems completely clear that these entities should be under their own flag because of the fact that they are de facto independent. For me, thats it. We,as wikipedia cannot take a side in this dispute - simply present things as they are. The fact is they exist and this should be represented. Outback the koala (talk) 02:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
- Agree on flags, but the main dispute here is whether they should be listed under their claimant states in the same way as the autonomous regions are, or in line with states (in both cases italicised). CMD (talk) 12:28, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
- I would list them with states. If they are italicised then that would handle the dispute issue. Outback the koala (talk) 23:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
- If those breakaway regions are considered de-jure parts of certain states, that connection should be demonstrated. Completely detaching them I believe is wrong. Grandmaster 17:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
- It's demonstrated in their being italicised, and explicitly noted, state by state, in the note below. CMD (talk) 18:22, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
- That may not be sufficient. Listing the unrecognized statelets in almost the same manner as de-jure states gives a wrong impression that they all have the same status. While the footnotes provide explanation of their status, the visual display kind of contradicts that. I think this causes most of objections. Italicising is not so much visible. I think the unrecognized entities should somehow be grouped together with the states they are recognized to be parts of. Grandmaster 08:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
- It's demonstrated in their being italicised, and explicitly noted, state by state, in the note below. CMD (talk) 18:22, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
- If those breakaway regions are considered de-jure parts of certain states, that connection should be demonstrated. Completely detaching them I believe is wrong. Grandmaster 17:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
- I would list them with states. If they are italicised then that would handle the dispute issue. Outback the koala (talk) 23:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
As Russian citizen, I can proove that Tbilisi has NO control over Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Georgian laws have no power in these regions, people of these regions don't have Georgian citizenship, they don't study Georgian language and there's no titles on this language; these territories have their own flag, coat of arms and hymn, own vehicle registration plates. As a national currency uses Russian ruble but not Georgian lari.217.66.156.142 (talk) 08:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Clarification needed
Perhaps there should be a brief NPOV mention of disputed territories in this region with a {{hatnote}} or {{Further}} template:
- For further information on disputed territories in this region, see [this], [that] and [the other].
- -or-
~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 10:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- There should probably be a section on states and disputed territories. We can just shift the list from the lead. CMD (talk) 12:21, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
backward
The following paragraph needs to be bumped ahead of the paragraph immediately above it: "In modern times, the Caucasus became a region of war among the Ottoman Empire, Iran and Russia, and was eventually conquered by the latter (see Caucasian Wars)." The article on Caucasian Wars says they took place between 1817–1864, which is a century before the 1918 conquest by the new Soviet Union. The indicated paragraph follows directly from the final sentence of the paragraph it should follow. 71.163.114.49 (talk) 17:45, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Possible copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Diannaa (talk) 01:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
This is a GORGEOUS article!!!! =
Just happened by it and wanted to say kudos... I love all the info, the flags, all the pictures, the terms in different languages, etc... Really well done! I'm nominating it for a Good Article. Wikimandia (talk) 21:46, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Added Kurdish and Ukrainian to Modern Endonyms
Ukrainians/Cossacks and Kurds/Yazidis both have significant populations in the region, so I included Ukrainian and Kurdish to the Modern Endonyms subsection. Adorkable Corgi (talk) 08:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
People of the Caucasus and Ethnic Ukrainians Adorkable Corgi (talk) 09:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Caucasus region
One explanation for my edit. Caucasus is located in between Iran and Turkey. But that does not mean Iran and Turkey a part of the Caucasus. Bruskom talk to me 03:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC) <-- Blocked sock of User:Iraqi man10
On Transcription of Tehraner Persian (Received Pronunciation) قفقاز
Dear User:LouisAragon, Generally the letter "q" stands for the phoneme /q/ (Voiceless uvular stop). There is no such a phoneme in Tehraner Persian. The Perso-Arabic letter "qaf" in a typical RP of Tehraner Persian syllable structure pronounces /ɢ/ or /ɣ/ (intervocalic positions). On the other hand, despite the historical Persian vowel system that the vowel pairs differ in length /a/ vs. /a:/ (quantitative distinction), in RP Tehraner Persian they differ in quality /æ/ (near-open front unrounded vowel) vs. /ɒ/ (open back rounded vowel). So "Ghæfghaz" is a better Romanisation/Transcription for قفقاز. X.goodarzie 13:30, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Geographic Map
Current geographic map is required to be changed. Regions are labeled with nor current legal names neither ones in any other period. The region which is on north east part of Turkish Republic is labeled with utterly irrelevant name. This map is incorrect and inappropriate. It is required to be changed. Aruperusaidu (talk) 06:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Partially or unrecognized states
Armenia is not recognized by the Pakistani government, so we must add Armenia to Partially or unrecognized states.
Pakistan was the first country along with Turkey to recognize Azerbaijan after its independence. Pakistan does not recognize Armenia and will never do so. We speak with one voice on NagornoKarabakh. On 14th March, 2008 we together passed the first Resolution 882 on Nagorno-Karabakh. Azerbaijan has supported us on Kashmir and we are thankful to you for that.
Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed
Pakistan has not recognized Armenia nor established diplomatic relations with that country
Eldar Ibrahimov
[1][2] Beshogur (talk) 14:23, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
- That section is for countries that either have no recognition or some. Armenia is recognized by every other country in the world. Also partially means: only in part; to a limited extent. How is one country out of close to 200 partially?Ninetoyadome (talk) 18:12, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
- Armenia is not recognized by all countries. Get your facts! Beshogur (talk) 14:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- According to Pakistan, they are the only country that doesnt recognize Armenia. http://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-the-only-country-not-recognizing-armenia.298703/ Maybe you should get your facts straight. Ninetoyadome (talk) 16:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- @Beshogur; I hope you're actually joking with your proposal, because otherwise you're blatantly violating WP:GAME. Bests - LouisAragon (talk) 17:45, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- According to Pakistan, they are the only country that doesnt recognize Armenia. http://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-the-only-country-not-recognizing-armenia.298703/ Maybe you should get your facts straight. Ninetoyadome (talk) 16:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- Armenia is not recognized by all countries. Get your facts! Beshogur (talk) 14:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
English-language Caucasus map?
Is anyone able to make an English-language version of the French-language Caucasus SVG map used in this article? I added the English translations of the French places names in the comments section of this Graphics Lab request. Thank you! Ketone16 (talk) 20:37, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
- Never mind; I created my own English version and added it to the article. Ketone16 (talk) 04:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
References
References
Leo1pard (talk) 04:47, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
External links modified
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Demonym/adjective?
Should it be included in the infobox? And which one? It's either Caucasian or Caucasic, or both.--46.172.130.105 (talk) 23:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
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Infobox
@Setenay88: I accept that Iran and Turkey are not in the Caucusus, but then, do you know to reformat the infobox? Leo1pard (talk) 04:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Never mind, Off-shell fixed it. Leo1pard (talk) 07:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2018
Please add the flags of Iran and Turkey, in the right hand side table under the map of the region. There should be six countries which are Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Russia, Turkey, not four. Jacob485 (talk) 04:08, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
Map is misleading since it obscures most of North Caucasus
@LouisAragon I don't know how you can say a map which misleads readers as to the extent of the region is more "useful". It's the first image they will see in the entire article and it clearly infers the region is much smaller then it actually is. Also you can't see any of the labels at the size it is in the infobox, that's why locator maps typically go in the infobox and more detailed maps go in the article body. I can't find a detailed map showing the whole region, but I'm pretty sure it's far more preferred that we have a map which shows the actual extent of the region as the first thing the reader is going to see. Rob984 (talk) 14:53, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Rob984: I understand what you mean, but it can be argued both ways. Yeah, a detailed map showing the whole region would be ideal. Anyways, lets see what other editors of this topic area think @Yerevantsi: @Ymblanter: @Kober:. Do you prefer this map for the infobox or this one? - LouisAragon (talk) 20:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Recent reverts
LouisAragon I'm adding quotes from the Britannica source now but in the future, but I don't think you reviewed the Britannica source before reverting. Please make sure the content is actually verified by the inline citations. If there are other reliable sources with different views we can discuss that here, but we can't cite Britannica for the statement that A less common definition also includes portions of northwestern Iran and northeastern Turkey.
when Britannica itself uses that definition. (The 1910 Britannica doesn't, but the most recent one that we've cited does:
West of the Kura-Aras Lowland rises the Lesser Caucasus range, which is extended southward by the Dzhavakhet Range and the Armenian Highland, the latter extending southwestward into Turkey.
Britannica is also a pretty heavyweight source, so whatever sources are brought to bear on this would need to be equally authoritative. I'm absolutely not going to get behind miscited sources the way it was done in this article.Seraphim System (talk) 22:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
Polinarok
I am sorry I take back Polinarok's changes because I see already LouisAragon earlier takes back same changes for "POV" and Polinarok gave reason "Caucasus is a borderland" but current article already says this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agamede (talk • contribs) 00:18, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
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Countries of the Caucasus
I added three countries to the list, since parts of Iran, Iraq and Turkey are also considered by many as being part of the Transcaucasus and therefore, part of the Caucasus. I quote, from this source, page 72 : "Transcaucasia is in many respects part of the Middle East and more specifically of a broader area encompassing parts of northwestern Iran, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey."---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:37, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
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Armenian and Circassian genocide
I see nothing about the Armenian genocide in this article. This, and to a lesser extent, the Circassian genocide, are important to the history of this region.Naddruf (talk) 03:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
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Autonomous republics and federal regions
As per the USSR administration, the autonomous republics and oblasts are referred to the regions with limited autonomy, not the ones with full independence. This concept was applied to all non-abolished autonomous entities after the union republics became independent in 1991. The term "autonomous" does not mean the central government has no control over the territory, but rather it means that the territory has certain autonomy. Georgia and Azerbaijan abolished South Ossetia Autonomous Oblast and Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast respectively in 1990-1991. Officially there are no such autonomies recognized by the central governments. I propose to remove Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) from the list of "Autonomous republics and Federal regions", but to retain that under "Partially recognized states". Same is already applied to South Ossetia in this article and why not to do the same with Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) for accuracy and consistency? KHE'O (talk) 18:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Seems that we both have our definitions of autonomy relating to this topic, albeit both seem to be correct (Artsakh is ultimately an autonomous country). But meh, it's a minor gripe, go ahead, I retract my objection. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Artsakh Autonomy
@HistoryofIran and Kheo17: Hello. It seems there is an active edit war ongoing on the article. Please try to settle it here. I accidentally got involved when I did the same edit, not knowing that it was subject to an edit war between you guys. Personally, it doesn't make much sense for Artsakh to be in the list of Autonomous territories since, firstly, Republic of Artsakh is a breakaway, de-facto independent state, not an autonomous republic and within Azerbaijan's legislature, there is no autonomy given yet to Nagorno-Karabakh (it was abolished in 1991). So, currently, only autonomous region in Azerbaijan is Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic. If Azerbaijan controls Artsakh or not doesn't matter since a territory's autonomy is decided by its de-jure country (and not even Artsakh claims it's autonomous since it claims to be independent). — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
uzbekistan
uzbekistan in part of kavkaz so why isn’t it on the page? 2A02:1810:2426:3C00:DC55:6014:3620:3E8F (talk) 22:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
The population in the "total" column is incorrect. 172.220.35.10 (talk) 17:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)