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Requested move 26 April 2024
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses Given that the protests have already lasted past April, and numerically, there are only two opposes (one of which seems to support the new title, anyways), it seems appropriate to WP:SNOW close this. (non-admin closure) ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 16:13, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
April 2024 Israel–Hamas war protests on university campuses in the United States → 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses – Opening this move request to gauge consensus on a better title. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support changing the title, specifically by merging the article into Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 22:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- This is the wrong place to suggest a merge. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Global University movement for Palestine
- Global University protests for Palestine
- There are protest reported from all over the world’s univercities, not only from US!
- sources to back my claim:
- https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/4/26/are-us-campus-protests-against-israels-war-on-gaza-going-global
- Australia, UK, France, Italy. Grabup (talk) 04:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- This is the wrong place to suggest a merge. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support 2024 US college anti-war protests for conciseness. Maybe replace "anti-war" with "anti-Israel" or "Israel–Hamas war" here. The current title is definitely too long. NasssaNser 06:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's a good alternative in terms of concision if there's support for "anti-war" and "date + protests". Iskandar323 (talk) 06:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support 2024 Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States as per prominent RS referencing (assuming this leads into May). RS are not calling these "Israel–Hamas war protests" as they are overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian. The pro-Israel protests referenced in the article are considered counter-protests and only notable within the context of the the pro-Palestinian protests. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support, but remove 'in the United States'. While most of these have been in America, there are a significant amount of global protests as well. Personisinsterest (talk) 20:07, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses without "in the United States" – the protests are pretty commonly referred to as pro-Palestinian in the sources, as noted. It's also misrepresentive and false balance to present the protests as being generically about the war, when the specific phenomenon in question is overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian protests, with whatever counter-protests only representing a minor and reactive phenomenon by comparison. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - The proposer did not state any reasons for the proposal. Kire1975 (talk) 21:26, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Can't you think of some yourself? That it's lengthy, crap and imprecise all seem like prominent examples. Iskandar323 (talk) 21:37, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment — The correct title would be 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, not 2024 Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses. I generally support this title, but the 2024 is ambiguous. A proper title should be ideally decided before May 1. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ambiguous how? What other 2024 pro-Palestine protests on university campuses could it be confused with? If anything, all 2024 (pre-April) protests should be included as a background to avoid confusion. I otherwise agree that at this point, with several international protests, your suggestion seems the best and most supported so far. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 13:04, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses under the WP:CRITERIA of recognizability, naturalness and conciseness. While most of the protests are at US universities, several are in other parts of the world. While the protests do object to the war and are opposed to the genocide, describing them as pro-Palestinian is common in the sources. Boud (talk) 01:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Support renaming the title, Oppose attempts to merge this with larger scale pages because this has quickly evolved past a few college protests Irisoptical (talk) 01:42, 28 April 2024 (UTC)Struck per WP:ARBECR- Support renaming: my suggestion is Pro-Palestinian encampment protests on university campuses. Even though some protests mentioned in the article aren't encampments, the encampment aspect is without a doubt the defining aspect of the movement and should be in the title. As a bonus, using "encampment" instead of just "protests" avoids having to use the year to disambiguate IMO. WikiFouf (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Support renaming to 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses (possibly with the addition of 'encampment'.) Astronomyfortwo (talk) 21:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)Struck per WP:ARBECR
- Support 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses per Boud and Iskandar323. There are additional notable protest encampments popping up now in Canada and the UK; I don't see any reason to limit the article title to only the United States. FlipandFlopped ツ 00:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Looks like WP:SNOW for 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses. Recommending a WP:BOLDMOVE here. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 00:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Would Support Astronomyfortwo and FlipandFlopped's proposals as well as all similar ones above. Would also note that based on recent posts from national and international organizers, 2024 Student Intifada should be considered - the other titles are probably better, but had to throw it out there. Amyipdev (talk) 06:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Struck per WP:ARBECR
- Support 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses. The protests have moved beyond the United States. The word "encampment", specifically the title Gaza Solidarity Encampment, is relatively common already but sometimes means just Columbia University. MarkiPoli (talk) 08:15, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support The People's University for Palestine (College protests) (also referred as " The People's University for Gaza", "The Popular University for Palestine" or "The Popular University for Gaza"). Many college encampments are referred as "The People's University for Palestine" or other variations as it encapsulates both the protest aspect but also the teach-ins that are carried out, religious events, dances, artworks, improvised libraries... One of the goals of these protests is to create autonomous and independent spaces inside the premises of the Universities where pro-Palestinian discourse can be carried out. Stanford: [1][2] Columbia: [3] Cornell: [4][5] here are some links, I can provide more. Hstoops (talk) 20:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses User:Sawerchessread (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Support, strongly prefer 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses per Iskandar323. Altorespite 🌿 15:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support - As it stands, this title is yet another example of Wikipedia's tendency to uphold a cumbersome title whilst hiding behind ulterior motives instead of admitting there is any POV being enforced in these cases. The vast majority of these students are not protesting against Israel's going after hamas as the current title implies, they are protesting for Palestinian human rights, period. I agree with GraziePrego; 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses Jester6482 (talk) 01:49, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support, however, some of these university campaigns started in 2023. Starklinson (talk) 02:47, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose United States shouldn't be mentioned in the title, given these protests aren't just local, but are happening in several countries. Nfitz (talk) 22:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support I would support changing the article to "2024 Israel–Hamas war protests on university campuses in the United States" by simply removing the April in the title. This way it is separate from Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States and Israel-Hamas war protests. BootsED (talk) 02:23, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support change to 2024 pro-Palestinian student protests. The current title is way too lengthy. These are (mostly?) student protests, that became prominent recently (i.e. this year (April would be more precise, but there is no need for so much precision and it is likely to continue in the next month, i.e. tomorrow)) and in support of Palestine. Hence the title suggestion. Niokog (talk) 14:23, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Although protests are predominantly student-based, faculty members have also been involved, as well as "outsiders", so not convinced this would be an accurate title to reflect the content. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 14:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- In that case, maybe "student" should be replaced with something like "college". Niokog (talk) 14:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- The problem with college is that it's too broad a term;
"In most of the world, a college may be a high school or secondary school"
, hence why university campuses is used at present. The U.S. definition is completely different from the rest of the world, as it's not even widely accepted that a university is a college. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 14:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- The problem with college is that it's too broad a term;
- In that case, maybe "student" should be replaced with something like "college". Niokog (talk) 14:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Although protests are predominantly student-based, faculty members have also been involved, as well as "outsiders", so not convinced this would be an accurate title to reflect the content. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 14:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support Pretty clearly there are plenty of instances of such protests occurring outside the US, so 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses is much much more appropriate. GraziePrego (talk) 08:07, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support per the reasons already given by others in this discussion - most obviously, the fact that the protests have lasted beyond April. Professor Penguino (talk) 07:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Issues with move
- @CommunityNotesContributor: As an involved user, you cannot close a move request on your own. Please revert it, or I will do so for you. Let the discussion take its course. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's news to me, where in guidelines does it say that an involved editor can not move a page based on request? As far as I understand based on WP:RM:
"Any autoconfirmed user can use the Move function to perform most moves"
. Personally I didn't see this as a WP:NOTRM or WP:PCM issue, and it wasn't an WP:RM#T. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 23:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC) - Revert if you feel the need to, and re-open the discussion, but otherwise I think the discussion did take it's course — specifically directly into the title the article was moved into. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 23:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- CommunityNotesContributor, to answer your question, WP:RMCI#Conflicts of interest states that involved editors aren't allowed to close requested moves, which is also touched on at WP:RM#Closing a requested move. All the best, —a smart kitten[meow] 14:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's news to me, where in guidelines does it say that an involved editor can not move a page based on request? As far as I understand based on WP:RM:
A new page on global protests on university campuses
Unaware of this ongoing discussion, I created a new page on global protests on university campuses. I am not sure why the unique developments in April in US universities should be moved to a global title. I oppose such a move, rather think we can also have a stand alone page on the global one. --Mhhossein talk 20:04, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- There is general consensus for a move. WP:BLANKANDREDIRECT CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 21:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose such a move, as this article from The New York Times states, "Experts say the partisan political context in Washington is a driver behind the spread of protests at American universities even as overseas campuses have stayed relatively calm" and that "campus protests overseas have been sporadic and smaller, and none have started a wider student movement." With this in mind, having a smaller section on the page for "spread to other countries" is appropriate. BootsED (talk) 23:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Barnard College and Rutgers University
Alongside Columbia University, Barnard is taking action to suspend those involved with the encampments. Additionally, there have been encampments occurring at Rutgers University in New Jersey.
These are possibly worth noting in the article 69.74.33.158 (talk) 17:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Add Smith College
- Add Smith College in Northampton MA to the list
- The protest there has been going on longer than most of the more publicized ones
- https://theshoestring.org/2024/04/10/shut-down-this-genocide-inside-the-smith-college-sit-in/
Rmacleod18 (talk) 19:35, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's from April 10th, before the Columbia encampment started this. The encampment had already been boing on for two weeks so it started in March. It does raise a good question about the title of this article. Is this page just for the Gaza protests that are in solidarity with the Columbia encampment that started on April 17th? or is it for anything that happened in April? If it's for the former, then this Smith College story should go to Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States. What's the consensus? Kire1975 (talk) 01:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- The title of the article doesn’t mention Columbia. This is an on campus protest against the war that happened in April 2024. Just because Columbia was the first school to make headlines doesn’t mean we should ignore whatever campus protests happened before. Maybe there should be a section of other related protests 2601:193:8380:1630:7107:BA7B:B602:D8C2 (talk) 12:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- It appears the encampment part ended on April 9 or 10, but since then there has been a non-encampment protest on April 21, after April 18. (source) I would say that qualifies Smith to be mentioned in the article (possibly with the earlier encampment briefly mentioned). TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 02:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
References
New encampment at Sonoma State University in California
Hi, could someone with edit access please add Sonoma State University in Rohnert Park, CA? SSU SJP set it up yesterday, April 26, and we're trying to get the word out! So far the campus police have left it alone. https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2024/04/26/18865416.php AlynWolves (talk) 17:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Are there any reports on this aside from the link you provided? This appears to be a self-published source, which are generally discouraged from being cited. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 19:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Edit Request - UT Austin
I would like to request that the following material and sources, or some variation of it, be incorporated into the "In Texas" subsection, specifically the paragraph discussing the protests at UT Austin. This can replace some outdated information, such as that discussing the arrests on campus:
On April 24th 2024 non-violent protests were planned on the University of Texas at Austin campus by the Palestine Solidarity Committee, a registered student organization at the university. The protests drew a large crowd, which was later dispersed by Austin Police Department officers and Texas Department of Public Safety troopers, who were there as the request of the university and Governor Greg Abbott, who claimed the protests were anti-Semitic and unauthorized.[1] 57 individuals were arrested for criminal trespassing, all of whom were later released without charge by mid-day April 26th.[2] The law enforcement presence and subsequent arrests at the protests have since drawn criticism from both students and professors at the university.[3][4]
Durchbruchmüller (talk) 01:04, 28 April 2024 (UTC) Durchbruchmüller (talk) 01:04, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like an overlap with paragraph 3 of the Texas section. You may want to consider
... specify[ing] what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it
, i.e. show the current version of paragraph 3 and what you propose replacing it by. If you want to remove other people's words/references, then it will either need to be obvious why your proposed text is better, or else you will need to explain why you have proposed the changes. Boud (talk) 18:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)- The Texas subsection was much, much smaller when I originally suggested this edit. But even looking at it just now, there is sourced information in my suggestion that more up to date than some of the article text. Specifically the fact that criminal charges were dropped against all 57 individuals arrested at the UT Austin campus. Durchbruchmüller 20:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- At this moment, outside our dorm windows, UT is experiencing another mass protest today where students are even camping out on the main tower lawn. Could this be added to the page? UnrealJett (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- @UnrealJett: If you can find a source, sure. On a side note, would you be able and willing to take a picture of the protest to illustrate the Texas portion of this article? It's fine if you can't, though. Thanks. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:50, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I have a lot of pictures personally taken and I can give you two or three to choose from if you'd like. I would really like others to see what's going on on our side. Irisoptical (talk) 10:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Irisoptical: Hi, that would be great, thanks.
- Feel free to upload them at c:Special:UploadWizard. If you're more comfortable with social media sites, you can post it to Twitter/Reddit/whatever with an accompanying message saying "I agree to publish this image under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International licence."
- Please review Wikipedia:Donating_copyrighted_materials#What_it_means_to_donate_material_to_Wikipedia. lmk if you run into any difficulties. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 12:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- aweomse Irisoptical (talk) 19:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I have a lot of pictures personally taken and I can give you two or three to choose from if you'd like. I would really like others to see what's going on on our side. Irisoptical (talk) 10:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- @UnrealJett: If you can find a source, sure. On a side note, would you be able and willing to take a picture of the protest to illustrate the Texas portion of this article? It's fine if you can't, though. Thanks. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:50, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- At this moment, outside our dorm windows, UT is experiencing another mass protest today where students are even camping out on the main tower lawn. Could this be added to the page? UnrealJett (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Texas subsection was much, much smaller when I originally suggested this edit. But even looking at it just now, there is sourced information in my suggestion that more up to date than some of the article text. Specifically the fact that criminal charges were dropped against all 57 individuals arrested at the UT Austin campus. Durchbruchmüller 20:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Rachel Treisman, Ayana Archie (25 April 2024). "Mass arrests roil college campuses amid pro-Palestinian protests". NPR. Retrieved 28 April 2024.
- ^ Seipp, Skye (26 April 2024). "Charges dropped against all 57 arrested in connection to UT-Austin pro-Palestinian protest". Austin American-Statesman. Retrieved 28 April 2024.
- ^ Simpson, Stephen (26 April 2024). "Campuses across Texas had pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Why did only UT-Austin crack down?". The Texas Tribune. Retrieved 28 April 2024.
- ^ Lily Kepner, Skye Seipp, Ella McCarthy, Serena Lin (24 April 2024). "UT-Austin students hold pro-Palestinian protest; at least 50 arrested". Austin American-Statesman. Retrieved 28 April 2024.
{{cite news}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
Edit request - Dickinson College
Students at Dickinson College began a Solidarity protest on the night of 4/25
https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2024/04/dickinson-students-stage-sit-in-to-show-solidarity-with-arrested-palestine-protesters.html Fernmyne (talk) 05:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States article
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As an FYI, due to a notable fork issue (as well as other issues), I was planning to WP:BLANKANDREDIRECT the Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States to this article. Please respond on the talk page if you disagree and it can go to AfD if necessary. This is merely a courtesy notification that can be ignored. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 19:03, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Edit request: Students 4 Gaza - A Global Map of Encampments and Demands List of Participating Universities (students4gaza.directory) / Internationalize the Article because the Article is too U.S.-Centric
The website “Students 4 Gaza - A Global Map of Encampments and Demands” ( https://students4gaza.directory/ ) has more participating colleges and universities listed on the website including cited sources used to make the determination. Many such participating institutions in the United States and around the world have yet to be added to the list and map here on Wikipedia. So I request that you please add the missing institution, including the ones outside the United States to the list on Wikipedia.
As of 5:02 AM Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) on Monday, April 29, 2024, the participating institutions are as follows (for new updates check original source):
List of colleges |
American University
Joined DMV SJP encampment at George Washington University Arizona State University Demands Barnard College Demands at the co-organized Columbia/Barnard encampment Berkeley College of Music Joined Northeastern University Encampment Boston University Joined Northeastern University Encampment Brown University Demands Bryn Mawr College Demands California State Polytechnic University, Humboldt Demands City College of New York Demands Claremont Colleges Demands Columbia University Demands at the co-organized Columbia/Barnard encampment Community College of Denver Demands at Auraria Gaza Solidarity Encampment Concordia University Joined McGill encampment Cornell University Demands Dickinson College Demands Drexel University Joined UPenn encampment Duke University Demands at Triangle Gaza Solidarity Encampment Emerson College Demands Emory University Demands Fashion Institute of Technology Demands Gallaudet University Joined DMV SJP encampment at George Washington University George Mason University Joined DMV SJP encampment at George Washington University George Washington University Demands Georgetown University Demands | Joined DMV encampment at George Washington University Hamline University Demands Harvard University Demands Haverford College Documentation, will join Bryn Mawr College encampment on 4/28 Indiana University Bloomington Demands Indiana University Indianapolis Demands İstanbul Teknik Üniversitesi Documentation Massachusetts Institute of Technology Demands McGill University Documentation Metropolitan State University of Denver Demands at Auraria Gaza Solidarity Encampment Michigan State University Demands Middlebury College Demands New York University - Main Campus Demands North Carolina State University Demands at Triangle Gaza Solidarity Encampment Northeastern University Demands Northwestern University Demands NYU Berlin (New York University - Berlin Campus) Documentation NYU Buenos Aires (New York University - Buenos Aires Campus) Documentation Ohio State University Demands Portland State University Documentation Princeton University Demands Purdue University Demands Rice University Demands Sciences Po Paris Coverage Sonoma State University Demands Stanford University Documentation Swarthmore College Demands Temple University Joined UPenn encampment The New School Demands Tufts University Demands University of Alberta Documentation University of California, Los Angeles Demands University of California, Santa Barbara Demands University of California, Berkeley Demands University of Colorado -Denver Demands at Auraria Gaza Solidarity Encampment University of Connecticut Demands University of Florida Demands University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign Demands University of Mary Washington Demands University of Maryland, College Park Joined DMV SJP encampment at George Washington University University of Maryland, Baltimore County Joined DMV SJP encampment at George Washington University University of Melbourne Demands University of Michigan Demands University of Minnesota Demands University of New Mexico Demands University of North Carolina at Charlotte Demands University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Demands University of Notre Dame Demands University of Pennsylvania Demands University of Pittsburgh Demands University of Quebec in Montreal Joined McGill encampment University of Rochester Demands University of Southern California Demands University of Sydney Demands University of Texas at Austin Documentation University of Tokyo Documentation University of Vermont Demands Vanderbilt University Demands Virginia Tech Demands Warwick University Demands Washington University in St. Louis Demands Wesleyan University Demands Yale University Demands |
Best regards,
~~ InfoWiki01 (talk) 05:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not done as this website (while interesting) isn't a reliable source. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 15:21, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Done Went through the list and found reliable sources for most of it. मल्ल (talk) 22:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Edit request - Haverford College
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pro-palestinian-protest-camps-show-up-on-local-campuses-but-calmly/ar-AA1nL2nC Fernmyne (talk) 18:29, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
The "April 2024 Israel-Hamas War Protests" Map
Hey all,
With regards to this map, I think we should somehow indicate for the readers what the difference is between the red icons, blue icons, and the green icons (what do the differing colour labels even mean)? At present, the labels are not explained even when you click on or enlarge the map.
In addition, I noticed that we mention encampments at the University of British Columbia, Washington State University, Whitman College, and Evergreen State College in the main body of the article, but for some reason there are not any flags within Washington State nor British Columbia indicated on the "April 2024 Israel–Hamas war protests on university campuses map".
I'm not familiar with how the data is inputted and populated into these maps. Could someone either share how to edit the map with me, or alternatively, add it themselves? Cheers, FlipandFlopped ツ 21:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, I've been doing most of the editing on the map. This map's data is stored on Wikimedia Commons here, while the display is on Wikipedia. The green represents colleges with encampments (aside from Columbia) and the blue represents colleges that had other protests. I had written that in Wikimedia Commons, but didn't realize it didn't display that on Wikipedia. I just edited the template on Wikipedia and so it should display the key now.
- As for the colleges that don't appear on the map, I think that just has to do with a delay in the map display. I noticed a few times that I would add an item to the map, but it wouldn't display that point unless the map was enlarged. If you click the map to enlarge it, it should display the up-to-date info.
- Hope this helps! TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 21:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great work, it's already much more clear. Thanks for editing it. FlipandFlopped ツ 23:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great map! Although might I suggest making the pins smaller dots? As many locations are so close together, especially in the Northeast, a lot of them overlap and lose their utility without zooming in. Having small, different colored circles/dots, I believe, would greatly help with legibility. BootsED (talk) 01:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- I like the idea but I'm not sure how to change the size of the points. If anyone reading knows how to change the size of the points could you do that? TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 17:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Marker sizes are already set to small, not sure what else we could do. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 13:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I like the idea but I'm not sure how to change the size of the points. If anyone reading knows how to change the size of the points could you do that? TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 17:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great map! Although might I suggest making the pins smaller dots? As many locations are so close together, especially in the Northeast, a lot of them overlap and lose their utility without zooming in. Having small, different colored circles/dots, I believe, would greatly help with legibility. BootsED (talk) 01:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great work, it's already much more clear. Thanks for editing it. FlipandFlopped ツ 23:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Addition of contrarian opinion to introductory paragraph?
Hello, I was reading over the page and noticed that the paragraph starting with "Several protests have been criticized for antisemitism" feels a bit empty to me.
Would it be alright to add in opinions from the group Jewish Voice For Peace especially their articles on how the movement is being accused of anti-semitism even though some of the actions against the movement according to them are making jewish voices feel less safe?
There has always been an anti-zionist jewish movement, as this own website acknowledges by having articles on it, so it would not feel out of place in my opinion to places these articles here to ensure neutrality of information. Yeastmobile (talk) 11:45, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- For deeper analysis into anti-Zionism and claims that it is/is not antisemitic would probably be better suited for the anti-Zionism and weaponization of antisemitism pages. This page should focus on the protests at universities and link to pages where these claims and counter claims can be described in full. Also, secondary sources and news articles are preferred for references over primary source statements from political organizations. BootsED (talk) 14:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Anti-Zionist in first sentence
The MOS:LEADSENTENCE was recently updated to: "On April 17, 2024, a series of anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian Israel–Hamas war protests began on university campuses in the United States."
diff
For context, the quote in the reference: "Pro-Palestinian student activists say their movement is anti-Zionist but not antisemitic"
This comes from Columbia protesters, that aren't representative of all the protests for starters. refarchive
So should we be describing all these protests as anti-Zionist in the opening sentence based on protesters from Columbia's opinion?
We could do with more sources to back up this description in a non-ref bomb type way at minimum. It doesn't seem accurate to label all the protests as anti-Zionist, which is why you don't predominantly see reliable sources referencing the protests as such.
"organized by anti-Zionist groups" would be more accurate in my opinion, with suitable RS to cover those claims, as well as better suited to the MOS:OPEN for context sake and to avoid an overloaded first sentence. Thoughts?
PS - @BootsED was there any reason you reverted the cite bundle I created in the diff reference above? The reference for anti-Zionist isn't even an accusation of antisemitism either, it's a discussion and defence of it, so at present it's WP:REFBOMB territory, hence why I excluded it when creating the ref bundle. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Community!
- As to the cite bundle, it was not my intention to revert it. (My mistake!) I actually think it's great and thanked you for the edit.
- Regarding the anti-Zionist claim, a couple of sources in the media have referred to the protests as anti-Zionist. This article from Reuters goes into how "decades-old anti-Zionism advocacy groups that protest Israel's military occupation have chapters across the country that have been key to protests on other campuses." We also have multiple news sources describing how protestors on other campuses have said things such as Globalize the Intifada and espouse anti-Zionist phrases and demands. Furthermore, the protests are part of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement as cited by the page, and which the movement self-identifies as anti-Zionist. With this in mind, I included anti-Zionist in the lead, although your proposal of "organized by anti-Zionist groups" also is accurate. It was my reasoning that putting "anti-Zionist" would be more succinct and cover both the groups, phrases and demands used by students at the protests. BootsED (talk) 16:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Another follow up, it is my understanding that the NYTimes article that was removed from the cite bundle should be included in it, as it goes quite in depth over the claims of antisemitism levied against the protestors by a variety of groups and individuals. BootsED (talk) 17:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Where specifically in that article does it reference protesters criticised for antisemitism? Also the second reference used, [6]archive is an opinion piece by a Columbia professor. Per WP:NYT this comes under WP:RSOPINION, hence should only be included with WP:INTEXT. More problematic though is the extended quote from the author is:
"I find it very hard to imagine that they are antisemitic"
. That's definitely not criticising the protests as antisemitic at all and should be removed as is false attribution. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 17:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- Hi Community,
- Where specifically in that article does it reference protesters criticised for antisemitism? Also the second reference used, [6]archive is an opinion piece by a Columbia professor. Per WP:NYT this comes under WP:RSOPINION, hence should only be included with WP:INTEXT. More problematic though is the extended quote from the author is:
- In regards to your second comment about the opinion piece, I never wanted to state in wiki voice that the protests are antisemitic, but that "several protests have been criticized for" antisemitism. Not that all protests or protestors are antisemitic. In the same piece you point out, it is true that he says he finds it hard to believe that all protesters are antisemitic, but right under that he says "some of the rhetoric amid the protests crosses it" and describes how not all have been peaceful and some have specifically targeted Jewish students. In the other pieces provided in that cite bundle, more specific claims of antisemitism have been made. I agree, that potentially writing something along the lines of, "In an opinion piece for The New York Times, Columbia professor John McWhorter wrote that in regards to protestors, he found it "very hard to imagine that they are antisemitic" but that there is "a fine line between questioning Israel’s right to exist and questioning Jewish people’s right to exist" and that "some of the rhetoric amid the protests crosses it." This I think can deliver some more nuance to the statement that you pointed out.
- In regards to the NYTimes article Universities Face an Urgent Question: What Makes a Protest Antisemitic? it discusses the claims of antisemitism multiple times throughout, including mentioning this incident that should probably also be added to the cite bundle.
- BootsED (talk) 18:17, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per this edit [7], I've added in this article, removed the opinion piece, and added in this one(archive) as well. If anything, this article would be better as a counter to the claims. I.e.
"the protesters say they are anti-Zionist but not antisemitic."
I otherwise think are only so many articles from the same publisher to add to a cite bundle. Adding more references from the same source doesn't add any extra weight to the claim imo. Usually cite bundles are made up of references from different sources for specifically this reason it seems. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 18:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- That sounds perfectly reasonable! Thank you for your insight and work on this page. BootsED (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great. I've added moved the "anti-Zionist" description from the first sentence to the opening paragraph regarding the Columbia protests:
"The protests emerged in response to mass arrests at the Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation, where protesters sought for the university to divest from Israel, as part of a movement organized by anti-Zionist groups"
, given your reply that"your proposal of "organized by anti-Zionist groups" also is accurate"
. Both Reuters and NYT appear to attribute this to Columbia, as opposed to the broader protests, so for now I'd say it's due related to this only. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Great. I've added moved the "anti-Zionist" description from the first sentence to the opening paragraph regarding the Columbia protests:
- That sounds perfectly reasonable! Thank you for your insight and work on this page. BootsED (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per this edit [7], I've added in this article, removed the opinion piece, and added in this one(archive) as well. If anything, this article would be better as a counter to the claims. I.e.
- Could we come back to the claims of "calls for the destruction of Israel"? The sources all document antisemitism, but I didn't see anything specifically for the destruction of a Israel, hence tags added for now. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 22:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re-added the reference. It was for some reason previously removed. BootsED (talk) 01:07, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I see this was part of the ref bundle, but better with it's own quote and ref it seems. I've added WP:INTEXT for this claim in the body in order to WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, as this is the opinion of one U.S. representative. As with all other very specific opinions documented in response, I don't see it as lead worthy. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 10:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Re-added the reference. It was for some reason previously removed. BootsED (talk) 01:07, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Edit Request: Washington, D.C. section -- University of Maryland, College Park (UMD) missing from DC section + MPD response to GWU President + other changes [Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 May 2024]
Change the following sentence:
"On April 25, students from Georgetown University and George Washington University established a joint encampment ... ."
"Protesters were joined by Howard University, George Mason University, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and Gallaudet University students."
To: "On April 25, students from Georgetown University and George Washington University established a joint encampment in Foggy Bottom ... ."
"Protesters at Foggy Bottom were later on joined by Howard University, George Mason University, American University, University of Maryland, College Park, Gallaudet University, and University of Maryland, Baltimore County students."
Here are additional sources for this change:
-- Also, let's add more information about why the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia (MPD) rejected George Washington University President's request to remove the protesters. Some of the sources that have already been cited, plus others we can cite, say that MPD/D.C. officials rejected the request because the protesters [(at least at the time)] were protesting peacefully and police did not want to antagonize them nor recreate the same optics surrounding the Teargassing and Clearing of Peaceful Protesters at Lafayette Square during the Donald Trump photo op at St. John's Church. --
[Note to Talk Page Readers: American University (AU) and the University of Maryland, College Park (UMD) are mentioned twice in the whole article because they had protests on their campus but later on joined the joint DMV SJP encampment at GW's campus in Foggy Bottom. In UMD's case, its on-campus protest is mentioned in the Maryland section while its joint protest at the Foggy Bottom, Washington, D.C. encampment should be mentioned in the Washington, D.C. section. Also keep in mind that University of Maryland, College Park (UMD) and University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) are two separate universities with similar names that joined the Foggy Bottom protest (this may have confused an editor which may be the reason why it was omitted).]
InfoWiki01 (talk) 00:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Pro-Israel Counter-protesters + Article Title Change, accusations of espionage, doxxing, and advocating/lobbying for warrantless surveillance of college students by Pro-Israel groups.
Pro-Israel Counter-protesters + Article Title Change
We need to flush out some more information about Pro-Israel counter-protesters and also change the name of the article to "2024 Israel-Palestine protests on university campuses."
Accusations of Espionage on college campuses by U.S.-based Pro-Israel group on behalf of Israeli government, intelligence services and foreign affairs.
Deploying spies on campus in the US: The 'Israel on Campus Coalition': https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/deploying-spies-on-campus-in-the-us--the--israel-on-campus-c
Israel’s War on American Student Activists: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-spying-american-student-activists/
Accusations of Advocating/Lobbying for the warrantless surveillance of Pro-Palestine college students
Pro-Israel Groups Pushed for Warrantless Spying on Protesters: https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2024-04-26-pro-israel-groups-warrantless-spying-protesters/
InfoWiki01 (talk) 01:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 13:27, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 May 2024
Comrade Toaster (talk) 03:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Protests were held and encampments were established at the University of Wisconsin–Madison and University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee on April 29.
Edit to: On April 29, a protest was held, and an encampment was established at the University of Wisconsin-Madison by the University of Wisconsin-Madison Chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine and the Young Democratic Socialists of America. University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee established their encampment on the same day.
Sources: https://www.instagram.com/p/C6NXFnTgxRb/ (Joint instagram post by the protest's organizers which woudld turn into the encampment)
https://www.wortfm.org/what-happened-last-night-at-the-uw-student-encampment/
Edit Request: Expand on Law Enforcement and Possible Army National Guard response to College Protests and Counter-Response by Protesters.
Edit Request: Expand on Law Enforcement and Possible Army National Guard response to College Protests and Counter-Response by Protesters.
1) What tactics did police/LEOs use in response to protestors? How they treated peaceful obedient protestors, violent protesters, non-violent civil disobedient protesters, the press, and neutral bystanders.
2) What tactics did protesters (and possibly counter-protesters) use against police or other governmental authorities or university authorities? For example, the California State Polytechnic University, Humboldt (Cal Poly Humboldt) barricade where police were pushed back and had to withdraw until a later time. DC Police declining George Washington University President's request to remove or forcibly remove peaceful protesters (see Washington, D.C. section for more details).
3) Politicians talking about or threatening to call in the U.S. Army National Guard to quell protests. Historical taboo of deploying the National Guard at college protests in the aftermath of the Kent State shootings at Kent State University and Jackson State killings at Jackson State University during the Vietnam War.
Police / Law Enforcement
Gaza protesters occupying California university building arrested in police crackdown (The Guardian): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/30/protesters-arrested-cal-poly-humboldt
D.C. police rejected GWU's plea to sweep out university protesters (The Washington Post): https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/26/dc-police-george-washington-university-protests/
Lawmakers question D.C. police for not moving on GW protesters (The Washington Post): https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/30/congress-dc-police-pro-palestinian-encampment/
Crackdown or compromise? A tale of two US campus protests (BBC News): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68909953
Do Democrats want the Columbia campus protests and encampment to get shut down by the Texas National Guard? / The Democrats Are Wasting the Campus Protests (Slate): https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/04/columbia-campus-israel-protests-texas-police-crackdowns-democrats.html
'Decisions Under Fire': Campuses Try a Mix of Tactics as Protests Grow (The New York Times): https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/27/us/college-protests-police-response.html
Campus protests: Hundreds arrested at universities across US as Gaza demonstrations continue (BBC News): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68915021
US colleges where students have been arrested over anti-Israel protests (New York Post): https://nypost.com/2024/04/30/us-news/us-colleges-where-students-have-been-arrested-over-anti-israel-protests/
Free Speech Advocates Urge Restraint From Colleges Amid Protests (Forbes): https://www.forbes.com/sites/meglittlereilly/2024/04/30/free-speech-advocates-urge-restraint-from-colleges-amid-protests/?sh=4cc72aeb61e8
U.S. Military / National Guard
Senators Wary of Sending National Guard to Quell Campus Protests (Bloomberg): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-28/senators-wary-of-sending-national-guard-to-quell-campus-protests
Why Republicans think the National Guard is a solution to pro-Palestinian protests (MSNBC): https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/columbia-protests-mike-johnson-national-guard-rcna149329
Sen. Kaine says sending National Guard to college campus protests would be ‘very, very bad idea’ (The Hill): https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4627388-tim-kaine-national-guard-college-campus-palestine-protests-bad-idea/
Johnson demands Biden send in National Guard during raucous Columbia visit (Politico): https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/mike-johnson-columbia-national-guard-00154199
At Columbia, Johnson Suggests Military Could be Needed to Quell Gaza Protests (The New York Times): https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/politics/johnson-columbia-university-president-protests.html
InfoWiki01 (talk) 03:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Edit Request: University of Utah sources
I wanted to add some additional sources to the protest currently occurring in Utah. Original reporting from local students:
- https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2024/04/30/mecha-protest-night-2/
- https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2024/04/30/u-president-taylor-randall-releases-statement-on-monday-nights-pro-palestine-encampment/
- https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2024/04/29/u-students-encampment-solidarity-with-palestine/
The main group organizing the rally and encampment I think:
- https://www.instagram.com/mechadeuofu/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperContraptionGuy (talk • contribs) 04:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Israel Genocide Against Palestinians
Include that this is a protest against an active genocide and ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Israel against the people of Palestine sponsored by and funded by the United States 2600:8802:4511:A500:F0E1:76B9:82B9:7CD8 (talk) 04:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Done It's already referenced in the infobox CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 22:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Edit Request: Florida State University Update
It seems as though 5 protestors got arrested on FSU's campus encampment Monday morning. Judging by further news articles that have come out since the original source was used, it seems the sprinkler incident caused the protest to simply relocate and continue, not ending it.
• Article showing protest going throughout Thursday [8]https://www.wctv.tv/2024/04/25/tallahassee-students-democratic-society-protest-israel-hamas-war-fsus-campus/
• Arrest article [9]https://www.wctv.tv/2024/04/30/protester-reportedly-handcuffed-florida-state-amid-nationwide-demonstrations-against-israel-hamas-war/
• More about sprinklers https://floridaphoenix.com/2024/04/30/desantis-on-campuses-after-arrests-they-turn-the-sprinklers-on-so-thats-just-how-its-gonna-be/ KapnKetchup (talk) 05:38, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
A Jewish student was denied entry into a building
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/pro-palestinian-encampment-blocks-ucla-students-from-entering-library-during-midterms/ 107.15.144.184 (talk) 05:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Providing historical context
There appears to be little historical context in this article, to include (1) a brief history of Israel and its forced migration of Palestinians and (2) the history of US higher education, its long-standing role in supporting establishment causes (genocide, slavery, wars, global climate change), and the history of student movements to counter oppression (the Vietnam War, South African apartheid and divestment). Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have reliable sources directly relating this to the current protests? The background isn't supposed to be a history of the Israel-Palestine conflict nor the history of higher education. There are otherwise references to Protests of 1968 that were available from RS. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 22:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Update Information for North Carolina Section
Information is out of date as of yesterday. https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article288197660.html On April 28th protesters put back up the tents and stayed in them until early morning on the 30th when the camp was raided by police and taken down. On the same day, protesters regrouped around the afternoon and replaced the American flag on campus with a Palestinian one. Police were then brought in and protesters clashed with them as well as pro-Israeli counter protesters, resulting in classes being cancelled for the rest of the day.
Sorry, not too familiar with Wiki so that’s definitely not written in the right tone, but here are some more sources:
https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article288156140.html
https://www.wral.com/amp/21405640/
https://www.axios.com/local/raleigh/2024/04/30/unc-arrests-dozens-palestine-protesters
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/nyregion/unc-chapel-hill-protests.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb 2603:6080:5AF0:94A0:80FF:E911:EEE6:1595 (talk) 21:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2024
In the Missouri section of the article:
Police from Richmond County, St. Louis Metro and the University
should be changed to:
Police from Richmond Heights, the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department and Washington University
The main reason I make this request is because Richmond County does not exist and was very clearly a typo. I also noticed that the other two noun phrases were rather awkward as well (there probably isn't a good reason to keep the shortened version, especially since it doesn't link to St. Louis the city, and "the University" has weird capitalization and doesn't flow very well), although those latter two changes are not strictly necessary. Bruberu (talk) 01:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Done Thanks for noticing. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 03:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2024 (2)
Remove Turkey from Locations where the student protests are taking place TreachCriss (talk) 07:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC) The source doesn't mention Turkey. Either remove it or add a better source that mentions Turkey.
- Done. However, please try to stick to the "change X to Y" format in the future. Thanks! Professor Penguino (talk) 07:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Add George Floyd protests to see also
Multiple sources have pointed out that it is analogous to the George Floyd protests in terms of scale and grassroots influence. 2605:8D80:325:3EEF:9D60:BB0D:29A6:1593 (talk) 09:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Stony Brook protest cleared
The encampment at Stony Brook University was dispersed by police, including state troopers. Tbis began at around 11:35 PM on May 1. Police cleared the area, and there were some physical clashes with people who refused to leave; 25 SBU students were arrested. 192.42.55.22 (talk) 10:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Chinese response
Should this opinion article from the Chinese state media publication People's Daily be added in the reactions, attributed to editor Wang Xinyi? Currently only one article exists on Chinese coverage, sourced to Voice of America, and given that it is a US government-sponsored media, which is currently not on friendly terms with China, the VOA article is quite biased and brings about whataboutism. 124.150.68.218 (talk) 14:13, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Keene State College to be added to the Wikimap of protesting colleges
Students at Keene State College in Keene New Hampshire organized a protest and it must be added to the Wikimap of protesting colleges with a blue marker. Quertie420 (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)