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::All right. I will wait for some days. The quote is [[WP:RS]]. BTW, I was also going to put a counter PoV quote by Gandhi but you intervened.[[User:Ghatus|Ghatus]] ([[User talk:Ghatus#top|talk]]) 13:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC) |
::All right. I will wait for some days. The quote is [[WP:RS]]. BTW, I was also going to put a counter PoV quote by Gandhi but you intervened.[[User:Ghatus|Ghatus]] ([[User talk:Ghatus#top|talk]]) 13:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC) |
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:::A quote, for sure, is RS, as an illustration of some reliably sources critical opinion, but a quote box, or two, or three, ..., is problematic in controversial articles. (See [[WP:LONGQUOTE]]: "*As a matter of [[WP:MOS#Quotations|style]], quote boxes should generally be avoided as they draw special attention to the opinion of one source, and present that opinion as though Wikipedia endorses it. Such emphasis on one quote violates NPOV. All quotes should be treated the same. Instead of using a quote box to highlight its notability, explain its importance before introducing the quote or in an introduction to the quote. The quote can simply be indented using a colon and enclosed in quotation marks.") Besides, Gandhi is not an expert on Indian history. [[User:Fowler&fowler|<font color="#B8860B">Fowler&fowler</font>]][[User talk:Fowler&fowler|<font color="#708090">«Talk»</font>]] 14:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC) |
:::A quote, for sure, is RS, as an illustration of some reliably sources critical opinion, but a quote box, or two, or three, ..., is problematic in controversial articles. (See [[WP:LONGQUOTE]]: "*As a matter of [[WP:MOS#Quotations|style]], quote boxes should generally be avoided as they draw special attention to the opinion of one source, and present that opinion as though Wikipedia endorses it. Such emphasis on one quote violates NPOV. All quotes should be treated the same. Instead of using a quote box to highlight its notability, explain its importance before introducing the quote or in an introduction to the quote. The quote can simply be indented using a colon and enclosed in quotation marks.") Besides, Gandhi is not an expert on Indian history. [[User:Fowler&fowler|<font color="#B8860B">Fowler&fowler</font>]][[User talk:Fowler&fowler|<font color="#708090">«Talk»</font>]] 14:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC) |
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==Arbitration== |
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You are mentioned here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971], in regards to the dispute in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 in the arbitration request noticeboard. [[User:Xtremedood|Xtremedood]] ([[User talk:Xtremedood|talk]]) 02:21, 5 March 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 02:21, 5 March 2016
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Copyrights
Please do not copy-paste content from books to here, even if it's to talk pages. It's a violation of our policies. —SpacemanSpiff 19:08, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello!
Dear Ghatus! Please read this and add few points to the indo-Pak air war of 1965! This source also can helpful in correcting WP:FICTREF claims in other indo-Pak articles! Thanks 101.60.204.248 (talk) 13:13, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Edit War
You are engaged in an edit war on page Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 within same contents since two days 1 2 3 and you do not want to discuss on talk page. Its clear violation of WP:AVOIDEDITWAR. BTW per WP:BALANCE Neutrality assigns weight to viewpoints in proportion to their prominence. However, when reputable sources contradict one another and are relatively equal in prominence per WP:BALANCE. 1965 War was not Indian Victory. Since many sources describe the war as Pakistan Victory, Indian Victory, Draw, Stalemate and Inconclusive so there is source contradict and are relatively equal in prominence. So I have to undo your revert per WP:BALANCE . HIAS (talk) 16:54, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Hi Ghatus, refusing to discuss, as in here [1], won't go down well when an admin comes to look at it. So please do discuss. I have watch listed the page now. - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:12, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- He indeed discusses his reverts only through further reverts. Which Wikipedia policy or guideline states that in war articles, 50/50 ratio should be used? Faizan (talk) 11:07, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Hi Ghatus. I don't know what's going on, and I'm also not going to find out. But it sounds like it may be wise to take a couple of deep breaths, meanwhile counting to 100,000 or so, long enough to let at least a day go by. All the best, take care, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:13, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- He indeed discusses his reverts only through further reverts. Which Wikipedia policy or guideline states that in war articles, 50/50 ratio should be used? Faizan (talk) 11:07, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
@Kautilya3:, @Faizan: Sorry for the delay. I was busy in some works. So, here the point is whether a pic of Pak Army capturing a fort in R'stan should be inserted or not in addition to the existence of a similar kind of a photo already in the specific section.
- First, India-Pakistan land capture ratio in '65 war was 3:1 in favour of India. And, the final result was stalemate with India having the upper hand. This is more or less accepted by all. So, weightage of texts and images has to given accordingly keeping these basic facts and figures in mind.
- Secondly, WP:UNDUE says " Wikipedia aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation in reliable sources on the subject. This applies not only to article text, but to images, wikilinks, external links, categories, and all other material as well.Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors or the general public."
- Further, WP:BALASPS says, "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to the weight of that aspect in the body of reliable sources on the subject." And, WP:FALSEBALANCE says, "While it is important to account for all significant viewpoints on any topic, Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity."
- Before the insertion of the pic, (by Hitch Hicking Across Sahara) the weightage was 1:1 as far as the images were concerned in that "The War" section. But, with the insertion of the pic the weight has gone to 1:2 in favour of Pakistan. It violates both historical facts & reliable sources and WP:NPOV.
- Finally, Images are more powerful than texts. And, they are used many a times to create a false impression. Hence, the picture should be removed. By the way, Hitch Hicking Across Sahara inserted the pic abruptly and it was on him,(not on me) to get consensus. Ghatus (talk) 13:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Any idea how to change the armed forces components in Portal:Military of India It is semi-protected and only autoconfirmed users can edit it. Thanks Hvvk89 (talk) 17:18, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Indo-Pakistan war of 1965
Hi Ghatus, You reverted edits on Indo-Pakistan war of 1965 referring to the talk page. But the talk page has unanswered comments by Wikibaba. Can you answer them please? - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:21, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Citation tool
Hi Ghatus, you can bookmark this link [2] and use it for generating full citations from Google Books urls. It is a lot more professional than plain URL's. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 11:44, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Vandalism?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_India&curid=13890&diff=686651307&oldid=686650507 Vandalism?] Neh... Could be worse, much worse. Best, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:48, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Joshua Jonathan:, Much worse? Could you be clear?Ghatus (talk) 14:47, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
- Relax. Someone tried to improve the lead; you were not very enthusiatic about it. "Vandalism" is like ruining something, on purpose. When you use the term "vandalism" too easily, people won't take you serious anymore. That would be a pity, and isn't necessary. That's all! Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:21, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Hey !
Hey Ghatus, Can you please have a look to this "Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 ? Have a look to the recent POV Addition by one of the Pakistani editor "Wikibaba1977" ! "According to neutral assessments and the most recent estimates Pakistan held 1600 square miles of Indian territory ( 1300 of it in dessert ) while India holding 350 square miles of Pakistan territory but of greater strategic value in Lahore , Sialkot and Kashmir Sector[50][51][52][53]" ! Please check the reliability of the sources given..... MBlaze Lightning (talk) 05:17, 3 November 2015 (UTC) MBlaze Lightning (talk) 05:17, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
And have a look to this too [3] "A Pakistan another bias and obvious fake claim ? MBlaze Lightning (talk) 05:29, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
Archives
Hi Ghatus. I've taken the liberty to add MiszaBot to your talkpage. The first archive will be created automatically tomorrow. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:46, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
Diwali!
Happy Diwali!!! | ||
Sky full of fireworks, Wishing You a Very Happy and Prosperous Diwali.
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Muslim conquests
Suppose Delhi had developed an Islamic community, which eventually grew powerful enough to take over the surrounding kingdoms. Then you would call it the "rise of Muslim powers." But that is not what happened. The Muslim rulers from the surrounding regions of India came to conquer. Should it be called a "Muslim conquest," i.e., was religion a factor? The answer is again yes, because the Turko-Persian literature of the time is full of Islamist ideology. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it was indeed a "conquest" in 1206. But, it was not the only conquest to single out. More than a dozen of such conquests took place in the preceding 2000 years having profound impacts. Either mention them all or mention them not at all. Again, only 2 out of 7 Muslim dynasties that dominated North India came into being through conquest. Other five, which include dynasties like Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Suris etc, grabbed power by dint of Coups, not conquest. So, "Muslim rule or Muslim Powers" and "conquests" are not synonymous. Ghatus (talk) 05:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Punjab
You haven't noticed this insertion of Punjab [4], have you? - Kautilya3 (talk) 09:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
- One can include UP( as it was based around the middle gangetic plane), but not Punjab. Then, he has to include Bengal too.Ghatus (talk) 09:42, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
History of India
"Communal interpretation of history. Read "Historiography, Religion, and State in Medieval India" - By Satish Chandra"
- By that logic, "Muslim Powers" is communal.
- John Keay (India, A History) and RC Majumdar (History and culture of the Indian people) both regard the medieval period a tussle between Hindu and Muslim dynasties. Both are Neutral source.
- Using Satish Chandra - known for his Marxist historiography - as a neutral source is similar to someone using P. N. Oak as a source. (140.239.232.12 (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC))
- This discussion should take place at the article's talk page. I am copying it there. - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:11, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- On Saturday/Sunday ( when Univ is not open) I will respond to the IP Nut (if the case is not already closed) who sees Indian medieval period as 2000 years and who can't see there were more Muslim Vs Muslim than Hindu vs Muslim in the 500 years period of Medieval India. It's about the continuity, not communal intervention. Do you have any Idea why Mughals call themselves officially The descendants of Timur, not Muslims or Mughals?Ghatus (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Asif Haroon
Regarding Capitals00's edit here. The source is unverifiable, via google books, and I found nothing about Arif Haroon after a quick search. My concern lies with the reliability of the source. Figured you might know something about the author or source. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:00, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Kansas Bear:I know that Aurangzeb banned alcohol and gambling and I am sure of it. I think you can replace it with any other authentic source and it will not be a tough job to find a WP:RS in Google. Ghatus (talk) 14:55, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Ok. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:41, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Happy New Year, Ghatus!
- Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
Welcome back
Hi Ghatus, glad to see you back! We are debating the issues of slavery at Dasa and Religion and slavery. Hope to see your expertise help us there. - Kautilya3 (talk) 09:50, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:, I have started to take Ms Sarah Welch less seriously. She is doing Kolaveri Di in every article as if she owns them. Stop responding to her whims and fancies. Ghatus (talk) 14:33, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:, Through my university library, I do have free access to JSTOR, Project MUSE etc, but I have found only a few helpful. Others are the result of "overheated imaginations". Books by eminent writers are the best. And, being a PG student, I know very well HOW and WHY these papers are written. We mostly write papers not to spread knowledge, but to improve our "academic score" for our career. :-) Ghatus (talk) 14:54, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
- Well, that is too cynical a view. Of course, all academics have a career to build. They are not doing public service. But, within that frame, they are also following their interests and the issues they might care about, perhaps not all of them but a good majority. When they don't do it out of interest, their work ends up being mediocre and gets ignored.
- Coming back to the issue, JSTOR etc. are fine for us over here, but I don't have access to the physical books published in India. I thought you might. - Kautilya3 (talk) 15:24, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
- An afterthought: I sense a bit of socialist dogma above, which claims that everybody does public service and only the crooks look after self-interest. The fact of the matter is that we all look after self-interest and we all do a bit of public service. Both are valuable. Take a scholar like Cynthia Talbot for example. She picked an area that was little studied before (the history of medieval Deccan) and made a phenomenal difference. Did she do it for "academic score" or just to improve things? Does it matter? - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:, I myself is a born "anti"-socialist. I consider them animals of " The Animal Farm". But, my opinion was not on morality, but on quality, especially for most those papers are written by M.Phil/ PhD students/scholars (though they are my seniors but my interaction happens with them almost on daily basis in our department. Personally, I have seen their sincerity!!!) However, I am not talking about eminent Profs./researchers/writers. I am talking about those campus guys who crowd national/foreign journals with their "research papers".Ghatus (talk) 13:20, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- Well, the Indian academic scene is not yet of a high standard. Most University departments don't do much research and everybody with a suitable degree can get a job. And there are all kinds of journals cropping up to cater to such people. But JSTOR etc. don't accept such riff-raff journals as far as I know. At least I haven't yet run into a bad paper on JSTOR. - Kautilya3 (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:, I can only say what I see. And, research varies from university to university. Take it sportingly, I doubt if you have enough experience on how a "Paper" is prepared for a journal. The borders of nations in publishing a "Paper" in a journal are insignificant today. There are three steps - registration process, fee process and publication process. Today, almost every student has to pay to publish in a journal- be it an Indian journal or a foreign journal, only eminent writers are excluded. And, finally JSTOR is not at all a journal. It's a digital library giving access to those journals I mentioned before. If you write a "Paper" with proper citations and there is some sense in it and you are ready to pay, I can make arrangements to publish your "Paper" in one of the world's reputed journals and subsequently you can "see" your paper in JSTOR. It is only the ISSN number that matters. Ghatus (talk) 04:49, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know why I haven't run into such papers. I know the publishing racket ok, because I myself get "invitations" to publish or serve as an editor etc. But JSTOR is a non-profit group supported by contributions from member Universities. If it includes junk journals, we can complain and get them removed. So please use your hamsa niti here. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:57, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:,This is not any racket,Kautilya. This is the norm. You have to pay to the journal OFFICIALLY (they will give you receipt also) to get your "Paper" published. No payment, no publication. What is the illegality here? All journals charge for publication. BTW, what is hamsa niti?Ghatus (talk) 12:03, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- The allegorical hamsa drinks all the milk and leaves out the water. I don't know why we don't have a Wikipage on it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3:, This Article processing charge has now become a norm than exception. This was not the situation even a few years ago. Now, you think that a PH.D scholar has to publish about 20-25 articles within 5 years along with preparing his thesis paper (do not forget project works+pre submission readings+ public defense) and continuously attending seminars and doing presentations in workshops in order to be a Professor or to get a good job. And, then they complain why quality research is not being done??? That is why we all must follow hamsa niti...Ghatus (talk) 12:27, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- The allegorical hamsa drinks all the milk and leaves out the water. I don't know why we don't have a Wikipage on it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi there!
Please note that there is an ongoing discussion on Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose and the page will soon be reorganized. We would welcome your comments on the talk page, but would be grateful if you would hold off making major edits for now, as the reorganizing process will become harder and more confusing. Thanks for reducing the captions of the images! Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- PS I have now added and "underconstruction" sign on the Bose page. I hope you did not mind my reverting your edit. Perhaps it can be reintroduced in a paraphrase later. It is just that quote boxes put one POV (the one in the box) in the limelight, and, before long, to counter it, another quote box appears ... Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- All right. I will wait for some days. The quote is WP:RS. BTW, I was also going to put a counter PoV quote by Gandhi but you intervened.Ghatus (talk) 13:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- A quote, for sure, is RS, as an illustration of some reliably sources critical opinion, but a quote box, or two, or three, ..., is problematic in controversial articles. (See WP:LONGQUOTE: "*As a matter of style, quote boxes should generally be avoided as they draw special attention to the opinion of one source, and present that opinion as though Wikipedia endorses it. Such emphasis on one quote violates NPOV. All quotes should be treated the same. Instead of using a quote box to highlight its notability, explain its importance before introducing the quote or in an introduction to the quote. The quote can simply be indented using a colon and enclosed in quotation marks.") Besides, Gandhi is not an expert on Indian history. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
- All right. I will wait for some days. The quote is WP:RS. BTW, I was also going to put a counter PoV quote by Gandhi but you intervened.Ghatus (talk) 13:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Arbitration
You are mentioned here [5], in regards to the dispute in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 in the arbitration request noticeboard. Xtremedood (talk) 02:21, 5 March 2016 (UTC)