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Regards and happy editing! [[User:Bob House 884|Bob House 884]] ([[User talk:Bob House 884|talk]]) 11:50, 14 May 2011 (UTC) |
Regards and happy editing! [[User:Bob House 884|Bob House 884]] ([[User talk:Bob House 884|talk]]) 11:50, 14 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:As a follow-up to this: Harald, I've removed your new request for a third opinion. As far as I can tell, ''two'' 3Os have been given on Talk:Galling in the past few days. If you're still unhappy, take it to the next level of [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]]. — [[User:HelloAnnyong|'''<span style="color: #aaa">Hello</span><span style="color: #666">Annyong</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:HelloAnnyong|(say whaaat?!)]]</sup> 14:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:42, 25 May 2011
Wiki Ethos
You don't own the article whatever contribution you have made. Your removal of accurate and pertinent information on thread galling, I took the time to contribute with no explanation whatsoever erks me. Thread galling is in fact the far most likely form of galling to be encountered by joe public and your instance on keeping the article focused on your own narrow experience with galling is self serving and not in the public interest or in keeping with the wiki ethos.203.206.77.37 (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Galling
Hi, please do not keep adding your "reference" to the galling article, as there is a conflict of interest. Thanks. --Wizard191 (talk) 18:40, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
- I am not discrediting the reference. I fully believe that it is legitimate reference, however the conflict of interest is that you are one of the authors of the work, and you are adding it. This does not completely eliminate the work from the realm of being added as a reference, but someone other than yourself must review it and deem it worthy as a reference. My recommendation is that you add a note to the talk page of the article stating that you think it would be a good reference, but that you want others to review it first because you are a bias entity, in that you contributed to the work. Wizard191 (talk) 15:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
March 2009
Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Galling, please make sure that the subject of the article really belongs in the category that you specified. If it has not been already, it may be removed if the category has not been deemed correct for the subject matter. Thank you. Wizard191 (talk) 18:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Please stop changing the categories for the galling article. The "categories" you are trying to apply do not exist, which is why they show as a red link. For more information about categories please read WP:CATEGORIES. Wizard191 (talk) 16:29, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
November 2009
If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Galling, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
- editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
- participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
- linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.
For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. For more details about what, exactly, constitutes a conflict of interest, please see our conflict of interest guidelines. Thank you. Wizard191 (talk) 21:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Stress (mechanics)
Hi, Haraldwallin. I'm glad that you're editing at Stress (mechanics). I have a couple of tips:
- Please use edit summaries to describe each edit briefly. This helps other editors keep track of what you're doing.
- Your edits seem to draw on your experience in the field. They would be more valuable to Wikipedia if they also included citations to published works.
Finally, I don't understand some of the content. I'm not an expert in continuum mechanics, but I know a little, and therefore I may be a representative reader of the article. You write that
- 'classical models of continuum mechanics ma
ke a quantitatively assumetion of an average force and accordingly fails to properly incorporate "geometrical factors" as important for stress distribution and accumulation of energy during the continuum.' This seems to me to be an overstatement. For example in a viscous fluid the velocity gradients are tensorially related to the stress tensor, via a tensor that expresses the 3D anisotropy of the material. Am I right? In an elastic solid, the displacement gradients are tensorially related to the stress tensor, via a tensor that expresses the 3D anisotropy of the material. So classical models of continuum mechanics do incorporate some information about the 3D structure of the material, right? Mgnbar (talk) 14:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mgnbar, nice to get a message from someone with similar interests and I think we discussed this previously in the discussion page.
The article Stress(mechanics) in Wikipedia is getting much better since I first point out various issues regarding overall structure and comprehensiveness between mathematical discussion and text.
I have-not done any actual changes to the content and today is my first edit on the actual article of Stress(mechanics).
The intention is to try emphasis what other writers already have written and point out what´s important.
You, Mgnbar, state that you fail to understand the content in the following sentence: 'classical models of continuum mechanics make a quantitatively assumetion of an average force and accordingly fails to properly incorporate "geometrical factors" as important for stress distribution and accumulation of energy during the continuum.'.
I can answer by relate to the following: 'In continuum mechanics, stress is a measure of the internal forces acting within a deformable body. Quantitatively, it is a measure of the average force per unit area of a surface within the body on which internal forces act. These internal forces are produced between the particles in the body as a reaction to external forces applied on the body.', which is exactly the same written buy another writer.
My text only emphasise on the fact and definition.
Regarding your examples of viscous fluid and elastic solid. I can´t relate to your statement because I don´t understand what you are trying to say. The gradient ( I presume it´s the fluids effect in the subject material and the produced gradient force you are referring to), force are "tensorially" related? Do you mean it´s related to size of the deformed volume?
My answer, if my interpretation of your text is correct, the assumption of a continuum and even distribution of stress within the body do not incorporate geometrical aspects of the body. The stress is in fact NOT evenly distributed and exhibit differences in concentration at sharp edges or other geometrical features within the body. The problem is thereby the assumption of a uniformed continuum and the use of a entity such as the physical force, rather than for example acceleration which by detention is more correct. The mathematical implication might look insignificant, but is "huge" if properly examined. --Haraldwallin (talk) 15:13, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
- Hi again. Thanks for your prompt response. You don't need to duplicate your responses at my talk page; I would prefer to read them here.
- Continuum mechanics is a simplified view of reality. Basic continuum-mechanical models such as the Navier-Stokes equations do not incorporate subtle geometric material information such as grain boundary effects. I know nothing about such subtleties, but I imagine that they exist and can have huge effects, just as you say. I certainly have no dispute with you there.
- But basic continuum-mechanical models do incorporate some 3D information about the material. When I mentioned viscous fluids, for example, I meant the following. Let x denote position, v velocity, and σ the stress tensor. Then there is a tensorial relationship
- where a is a tensor expressing the relationship of stress (σ) to strain (the left side of the equation). The tensor a has some symmetries, which reduce its number of independent coordinates from 81 down to 36 or 21. But it is still rich enough to express 3D anisotropy in the response of the material to stress. For example, if the material is layered, so that it shears more easily along some planes than others, this is expressible in the tensor a, right?
- Furthermore, the tensor a can vary over space and time. There is no assumption that the stress is evenly distributed throughout space, if by "evenly" you mean "uniformly" or "constantly". On the other hand, do continuum-mechanical models usually assume that stress is smoothly distributed (e.g. that it is continuously differentiable)? That would not account for sharp effects such as grain boundaries.
- So is it correct to say that classical models account for some geometric information (anisotropy), but not for other information (non-continuum effects)? The article Stress (mechanics) should be clear on this. Regards, Mgnbar (talk) 17:44, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mgnbar.
You can´t seriously think I can answer your argumentation above, I´m not stupid you know. hehe sorry I could not help it.
Seriously don´t take any offence, I suggest that you define and in detail explain what you are trying to say. I think you can agree that you are eager to debate and defend the classical models of continuum mechanics, which is good.
But you can´t expect me to understand the argumentation such as the above equation without telling me the conditions of the whole system. I can only guess what you are getting at.
My spontaneous reaction is I think I understand what you try to say, and in my report on galling
- Wallin H.: An investigation of friction graphs ranking ability regarding the galling phenomenon in dry SOFS contact : (Adhesive material transfere and friction), free pdf document at www.diva-portal.org found here
the notion of a connection to "energy density" or as you write "stress" and size of the deformed volume exist in the discussion chapter. The mathematical relationship in my report looks almost the same as your scalar model above. Hoverer, the problem is your use of stress (σ) to define strain, energy density and acceleration is more correct. As I said stress (σ)=(Force/Area), include the "physical" force as a variable and there is no compatibility between the force and the deformed matter. You fail to do a correct transformation from a three dimensional to a one dimensional system and therefore the definition of the model is false. --Haraldwallin (talk) 19:23, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry for being unclear. As I said, I'm not an expert in mechanics. I was under the impression that the material I quoted was foundational, so that I would just have to remind you of it. I'm not sure what you mean by "compatibility between the force and the deformed matter". The standard continuum-mechanical models do incorporate conservation of mass and conservation of momentum. Do you mean something more than that? Also, I'm not sure what "one-dimensional system" you're talking about. Everything I wrote about was three-dimensional.
- Here's more detail. Let x be position, t time, and v velocity. This x and v are three-dimensional vectors. Let ρ be density (assumed constant), p pressure, σ the Cauchy stress tensor, and f a body force. The Navier-Stokes equations are
- In order to turn the latter equation into a partial differential equation purely in v, we have to relate the stress tensor to v or x in another way. For an elastic solid, the relationship is
- where u is displacement and s is called the compliance tensor; see Hooke's law. In a viscous fluid the relationship is
- as I wrote above. The Viscosity article has some discussion about this, but it assumes an isotropic material. The reference that I know best is Pollard and Fletcher: Fundamentals of Structural Geology.
- Finally, I do not know enough about this material to "debate" you on its merits. I'm not coming up with this stuff on my own; it's all from the 1800s, right? I'm just trying to help you use your knowledge to improve Wikipedia. Mgnbar (talk) 20:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- Hi again. I've skimmed through your paper, but it's pretty far away from anything I think about. It doesn't seem to have any fluid dynamics. That might explain why you and I are having trouble understanding each other; the only continuum mechanics I know is fluid dynamics (and I don't know that well). Mgnbar (talk) 14:46, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, you or "the classical continuum mechanics" try to merge two incompatible attributes.
The force, stress or pressure all have the attribute of a single entity, whereas the energy and acceleration of mass have the attributes of three dimensions.
The "classical models of continuum mechanics" describe a three dimensional system using one dimensional variables, this is ok and is correct for a couple of "special solutions" but for a generalized solution they fail to make a proper "base transformation" due to this inbuilt fault factor.
An example, examine the equation of the force. F=ma the force is not one dimensional in the right lain, but is treated as a one dimensional variable in the existing "classical models of continuum mechanics".
I hope and think we can agree about that.
Perhaps we now can agree to that this also leads to problems regarding the models in your argumentation above.
- No, we do not agree. In Newton's second law, the force and acceleration are vectors: F = m a means . The classical models definitely treat these as three-dimensional. The Navier-Stokes equations that I wrote above definitely treat position, velocity, acceleration, and force as three-dimensional vectors, not as scalars. The stress tensor relates two three-dimensional vector quantities: the normal vector to a surface, and the resulting force vector on that surface.
- The pressure is a scalar field, but its gradient is a vector field; writing this vector field as the gradient of the pressure is just saying that it is a special kind of vector field, namely a potential field. Really, the only scalar quantities in the Navier-Stokes equations are time t and density ρ. Do you agree?
- If by "base transformation" you mean "change of basis" or "change of coordinates", then you are wrong. The Navier-Stokes equation is tensorial. It automatically handles coordinate changes. Mgnbar (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Regarding my report, the mechanics can be found in the discussion chapter page100-110(something) and is a crude schematic description of how acceleration increase "exponentially" and mass "linearly" if the zone of deformation shrinks, "deformation zone shrinks", with regard to the "geometrical factors" and the direction of the deformation, or as you probably would put it "deformation vector".
This is important, because "energy density" or energy concentration is connected to acceleration and metallic-crystals can only phase transform if the energy density reach or exceed a certain limit. --Haraldwallin (talk) 13:06, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
- I've looked at pages 100-102 or so. Are you just saying that "As the size of the contact decreases, the pressure and acceleration increase"? This is quite believable. I don't see how the acceleration increases "exponentially". Mgnbar (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
You have not addressed any of my polite requests about your editing: There are still no citations in your edits to Stress (mechanics). You are still not using edit summaries. You continue to copy this conversation to my talk page, although I've asked you not to. It seems to me that you are more interested in discussing mechanics than in editing Wikipedia. As Bbanerje noted at Talk:Stress (mechanics), such discussions are more appropriate for iMechanica than for Wikipedia. Mgnbar (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mgnbar.
Excuse me?? What are you taking about? I quote: "You are still not using edit summaries. You continue to copy this conversation to my talk page, although I've asked you not to. It seems to me that you are more interested in discussing mechanics than in editing Wikipedia. As Bbanerje noted at Talk:Stress (mechanics), such discussions are more appropriate for iMechanica than for Wikipedia.", end quote.
I answer your questions only to make you happy and hopefully give you some input, if you don´t appreciate the discussion you are "very free" to leave me alone. I didn't start this discussion, you did. You have no businesses blaming me for anything and infact you are NOT!! polite.
Regarding me answering on your page, it is clear this discussion must be held on both pages to discriminate false statements.
And about the acceleration, if you are cleaver enough you will understand the significance of an increase in acceleration with a shrinking plastic zone. And I hope you are "polite" enough to admit it has been forgotten in previous deformation models of mechanics (before 2007). But quite frankly I don´t care what you think. The implication is already happening around the world and I´m thrilled over the prospects. The "geometrical factors" in "compressive stress" and frictional contact gives the relation (acceleration=1/x) witch increase the acceleration expectationally when x travels to 0, (or in other words the plastic zone shrinks towards an "unlimited small volume).
The schematic sketch in my report is very crude but gives all needed mathematical foundations in coordination with empiric observations to develop and improve the year 2006-2007 existing models of compressive stress and frictional deformation mechanics.
--Haraldwallin (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
- I apologize for hurting your feelings. I was frustrated by our continuing inability to communicate very basic issues of Wikipedia use. Perhaps this is due to a language difference? I don't know.
- If you read Wikipedia:Edit summary you will learn what an edit summary is and why you should use it. If you examine Special:Contributions/Haraldwallin, you will see that you have not been using edit summaries. I cannot be any clearer on this.
- Your copying of the conversation to my talk page is not really a big deal to me, but it is unusual. There is no reason why having two identical copies of a text helps to "discriminate false statements".
- Regarding your own material on galling, etc., I was honestly asking questions to clarify what you meant (because I do not understand it, because this is not my field). I don't think that I was being impolite, but I'm sorry if I came across that way. Please be aware that the term exponential, as it is used in the English-speaking mathematical community, does not apply to the function a = 1 / x. Mgnbar (talk) 21:18, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
So, what is the proper term for the rapid increases of acceleration due to "geometrical factors" in "compressive stress" and frictional contact where the relation (acceleration=1/x) increase the acceleration very rapidly when x travels to 0, (or in other words the plastic zone shrinks towards an "unlimited small volume)?? --Haraldwallin (talk) 18:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- You could say "Acceleration is inversely proportional to x" or "Acceleration varies inversely with x." But my sense is that this terminology is a little old fashioned, because it is unnecessarily vague. If one wants to say that a = 1 / x, to an audience that isn't afraid of math, then one should just say a = 1 / x and be done with it, I think.
- I don't have your paper in front of me (I'm traveling), but I don't recall seeing the word exponential in the paper anyway. And it doesn't appear in Stress (mechanics). I think you used that word only here on this talk page. So again it's no big deal. I as just wanted to clarify. Regards, Mgnbar (talk) 22:57, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Mgnbar. Listen, I think you only try to annoy me.
Your statement quote: “You could say "Acceleration is inversely proportional to x" or "Acceleration varies inversely with x." But my sense is that this terminology is a little old fashioned, because it is unnecessarily vague. If one wants to say that a = 1 / x, to an audience that isn't afraid of math, then one should just say a = 1 / x and be done with it, I think.” end quote, are extremely strange if you have any knowledge of mathematics and are serious.
To explain the connection between an “exponential increase” in acceleration and a “shrinking deformed volume” in "compressive stress" and frictional contact, by the expression (acceleration=1/x) when “limes” x travels to 0, is to me NOT! vague. It’s in fact a very precise mathematical illustration to a complex mechanical event. And your suggestion “inversely proportional” see quotation gives no clear association to what takes place, which is the word “exponential" increase of acceleration with a shrinking deformed volume when the “limes” x travels to 0.
And an increase in acceleration when the deformed volume shrinks is of course important! or do you fail to acknowledge this?
The word “exponential” when describing the relation between acceleration and the shrinking volume is found in the paper as a notation and figure text. But it’s not important because it is analogically given by the boundary conditions such as the nominal penetration velocity and the presented schematic illustrated geometrical constraints. So the nature of the function for acceleration should be perfectly clear with a relative basic knowledge in mathematics and mechanics. --Haraldwallin (talk) 17:10, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- I am definitely not trying to annoy you. I am actually trying to help you learn how to edit Wikipedia, just as others helped me when I started. We have gotten sidetracked into a discussion of your thesis.
- I agree with you that the statement "acceleration = 1 / x" is clear and precise. Great. I believe you that it is also important; I cannot judge this, because I do not work in this field. The statement "'acceleration = 1 / x' is an exponential relationship" is wrong. But let's not talk about it any more; it has nothing to do with your editing of Wikipedia, which is all that I care about. Mgnbar (talk) 21:56, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi talk. Ok, I’m not responsible for your own opinion.
However, I already discussed the absence of edit summaries so please, it is not necessary to mention them again. But I repeat my answer in case you missed it.
I’m not the only one who forgets the edit summaries and if you feel you have a lot of spare time you may discuss this with all the other editors on Wikipedia instead of bothering me whit long recitation that only you might get any satisfaction from.
- This is the first time that you have actually addressed the issue of edit summaries. Other editors will ask you to use them, until you do. But as far as our discussion goes, the matter is closed. Thank you.
Regarding eventual citations in the article, as I said. My text only emphasize on the fact and definitions of continuum mechanics and I believe my contribution is still in the wiki article, so just read it.
- This is the first time that you have actually addressed the issue of citations. The matter is closed. Thank you.
My report statement is the following: The relationship acceleration = 1 / x makes the “acceleration” increase exponentially when “(limes) x travels to 0”, not the opposite!! If you have trouble reading it’s not my fault.
But I must ask you, why do you even consider presenting me equations of continuum mechanics if you don’t understand the boundaries and nature of it’s origin?
And of course I get annoyed when your tone is not very nice and far from polite and you accused me of starting this conversation when I clearly didn´t.
--Haraldwallin (talk) 23:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
- I started the discussion of your work, and I was happy to discuss your work until I realized that you were not going to address my concerns about your Wikipedia editing. That's when I became frustrated. I have never criticized the substance of your work. You have expertise in it and I do not, and I have repeatedly said so. I was just trying to help you present your ideas in English.
- You have addressed my two concerns, and you have helped me understand your work a little better. So for me this discussion is finally finished. I hope that you enjoy editing Wikipedia. Goodbye, Haraldwallin. Mgnbar (talk) 14:43, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mgnbar.
You still give false statements and I quote:
“:This is the first time that you have actually addressed the issue of edit summaries. Other editors will ask you to use them, until you do. But as far as our discussion goes, the matter is closed. Thank you.
This is the first time that you have actually addressed the issue of citations. The matter is closed. Thank you.”, end quote.
My answer.
You have written and expressed your opinion about “edit summaries” and “citations” in both the Wikipedia Stress (mechanics) discussion page and on my own personal discussion page. I have written the same answer on all occasions and I’m sure you have read it. In case you missed it, I repeated them once again as you clearly have seen.
I believe your main concern is not the content of my eventual changes to the wiki article Stress (mechanics), but rather the possibility to make a fuss over a very marginal problem and a common mistake for all editors on Wikipedia.
Why you chose me as your victim for your misdirected concern, I have no idea. But there are possibly some logical explanation.
Regarding my English as you so nobly try to improve, I think it’s pretty obvious the problem was not my writing, it was your ability to read. I wrote that the acceleration may increase exponentially (with x approach 0). NOT!!! an exponential mathematical relation, as you insisted. To mention an “increase in acceleration” rather than to discuss a “relation” makes the outcome and implication to the mechanics much more legible and clear.
The context of my writing was very clear on that point and the implication on stress modeling is huge and most importantly, my changes to the wiki article Stress (mechanics) are still present so someone must have liked them.
And please read what you write, because you were not very polite. --Haraldwallin (talk) 17:33, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
May 2011
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Galling. Users are expected to collaborate with others and avoid editing disruptively.
In particular, the three-revert rule states that:
- Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
- Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you continue to edit war, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Wizard191 (talk) 16:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I've given a third opinion about the issue of whether to include your thesis as a reference in the Galling article. In my opinion the reference should not be included as unfortunately wikipedia policy does not consider 'lower' level research theses as reliable sources because they are not as thouroughly peer reviewed as doctoral theses and journal articles. You can read more of my reasoning at Talk:Galling, I note as well that another user Diego Moya has also tried to give some reasons as to why the reference may not be appropriate and some constructive comments as to how you could show otherwise.
Whilst WP:Third Opinion is not designed as a tie breaker, it would be great if you could try to participate in the discussion, and perhaps show me why I'm wrong, rather than simply continuing to insist on it's inclusion as you appear to have done here [1].
Regards and happy editing! Bob House 884 (talk) 11:50, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
- As a follow-up to this: Harald, I've removed your new request for a third opinion. As far as I can tell, two 3Os have been given on Talk:Galling in the past few days. If you're still unhappy, take it to the next level of dispute resolution. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)