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Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 13:46, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Current disputes
Talk:Sri Lanka Matha#Tagore claim has been rebutted
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
- Talk:Sri Lanka Matha#Tagore claim has been rebutted (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)
Users involved
- Obi2canibe (talk · contribs)
- BlueLotusLK (talk · contribs)
- Peter K Burian (talk · contribs)
Dispute overview
There is a dispute on the Sri Lankan national anthem article Sri Lanka Matha as to who wrote it, Sri Lankan Ananda Samarakoon or Indian Rabindranath Tagore. This has been a source of dispute since April 2012 but before the current dispute all views about the anthem's origins were given and attributed in accordance with WP:NEWSORG and WP:NEWSBLOG, irrespective of whether they were opinion pieces/blogs or not. Last week BlueLotusLK edited the article so as to say that only Samarakoon wrote the anthem and that suggestion Tagore wrote the anthem was rubbish. This is a violation of WP:NPOV which requires all significant views that have been published by WP:RS to be included. There are many WP:RS which state that Tagore wrote the anthem, in full or in part. They can be found on the Talk Page.
Have you tried to resolve this previously?
The issue has been discussed at length on the article's talk page.
How do you think we can help?
Decide if Wikipedia's policies require the inclusion that Tagore may have written Sri Lanka Matha.
Summary of dispute by BlueLotusLK
- Obi wants to give undue weight to a minority view that seems to be an unsubstantiated rumour spread by several opinion pieces in Indian newspapers unfamiliar with Sri Lanka and its anthem, only dealing with it in passing while seeking to glorify Tagore. I left the oldest source to claim the view in and included another source from a newspaper that disputes its claim. Obi does not approve of this and wants to make the Tagore claim seem unchallenged "so the readers can decide". BlueLotusLK (talk) 21:49, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Summary of dispute by Peter K Burian
I am not one of the two users who are debating this issue, but one of them mentioned that I could post a comment here (on the Talk page). I am a totally unbiased guy in Canada, without any involvement in the country of Sri Lanka or (India). I am not acquainted in any way with either of the parties to this dispute.
I did a great deal of research on the issue of who wrote the anthem. Afterwards, I edited that section of the article, with a series of citations from major news agencies, all from 2015 or 2016. I posted a copy of that revised version on the Talk page for easy reference. It's under ORIGIN, in the topic == Finished editing - origin and use of the Tamil version of the anthem ==
Frankly, I am surprised there is any dispute on this topic. Peter K Burian (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Talk:Sri Lanka Matha#Tagore claim has been rebutted discussion
- Volunteer note - There has been discussion on the article talk page. The filing party has not notified the other editor of this filing and should do so. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:12, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Robert McClenon: I notified the editor straight after filing this case.--obi2canibetalk contr 16:15, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- Verified --JustBerry (talk) 16:29, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- Volunteer note: (edit conflict) Moved Peter K Burian (talk · contribs)'s comments to own summary dispute section per noticeable involvement (and disagreement) in content dispute on article talk page. --JustBerry (talk) 16:24, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- Verified All involved parties have been notified on their respective talk pages. --JustBerry (talk) 16:29, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Obi2canibe: @BlueLotusLK: Opposing parties, thank you for your statements. I will be moderating the case moving forward. Other volunteers are more than welcome to give their input within the discussion. Although your initial statements do not demonstrate this, please remember not to make personal statements, including remarks about another editor's behavior. Rather, the discussion should be focused on the content dispute at hand. In the section I have created below called "Involved Parties #1," I would appreciate if both parties would list the sources they feel are independent, published by a third party, and reliable. Weighing the frequency and depth of references to the subject within those sources, as well as the sources' reliability, will help push the content dispute forward. --JustBerry (talk) 04:18, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Involved Parties #1
Sources saying Ananda Samarakoon wrote and composed "Namo Namo Mata" aka "Sri Lanka Matha":
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BlueLotusLK (talk) 06:01, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Here are some sources which state that Tagore wrote the anthem, in full or in part:
Sources
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References
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--obi2canibetalk contr 21:05, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: There's 3 The Hindu sources saying Ananda Samarakoon wrote "Namo Namo Mata" inspired by Tagore to 1 saying Tagore wrote it. There's 2 Hindustan Times sources saying Ananda Samarakoon wrote "Nam Namo Mata" to 1 saying Tagore. Also there's 1 each from Daily News and Analysis and International Business Times stating both views at different times. Make of that what you will in judging their reliability. Also source 3 in the Tagore list says Samarakoon was inspired and wrote it and 19 incorrectly states that a Tagore song was translated into Tamil to be adopted as the Sri Lankan National Anthem. BlueLotusLK (talk) 22:18, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- It's quite common for newspapers to publish different views. That does not mean that they are unreliable.--obi2canibetalk contr 21:06, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Discussion #2
- Volunteer note: @Obi2canibe: @BlueLotusLK: It seems as though two sets of reliable sources support two views of authorship. Are both editors willing to work towards crafting a rephrasing that highlights the ambiguity in authorship? If not, please be prepared to thoroughly demonstrate why the other party's sources are invalid for use. --JustBerry (talk) 22:38, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Prior to the current dispute the article did mention the ambiguity - please see the first paragraph of the "History" section of this version of the article. This can of course be updated/rephrased to take into account the many new sources that BlueLotusLK and I have found recently.--obi2canibetalk contr 22:56, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Obi2canibe: Thanks for the reply. @BlueLotusLK: Looking at he first paragraph of the "History" section here, which sentences do you disagree with or would like to add? --JustBerry (talk) 23:00, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- I'm not prepared to do that. There is no ambiguity about authorship. The Sri Lankan government and the curators of Tagore's library say Ananda Samarakoon wrote and composed the anthem as well as many well known scholars. The CIA World Factbook agrees. Their statement holds more weight than unknown journalists in India writing in the 2000s. This is giving undue weight to a view that is unsubstantiated. Further even the RS that support Obi's view say the Ananda viewpoint most of the time. BlueLotusLK (talk) 23:03, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- You can't claim authorship just by repeating something without any evidence. There's articles dealing exclusively with the anthem itself with great detail that explain how it came to be written. To give them the same weight as articles that claim something in passing without any explanation makes no sense. BlueLotusLK (talk) 23:07, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- See WP:Undue weight . Obi's sources don't even have one uniform idea of what happened. some say Tagore wrote only the music and not the lyrics and some say he only wrote the lyrics and not the music. Should we make small sections for every variant of these claims? First you mention the mainstream view held by most credible sources and then mention the fringe view in passing if at all. BlueLotusLK (talk) 23:13, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @BlueLotusLK: Can you pin point the sources that explain the anthem's creation in great detail? I did notice this one. @Obi2canibe: How do the journalists you reference hold a similar weight as this source, for example? --JustBerry (talk) 23:14, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- Sunday Observer (January 30 2011): "It is on record that Namo Namo Matha - now Sri Lanka Matha - was composed while he was a teacher at Mahinda Colege, Galle. T.D. Jayasuriya then Chief Inspector of Schools for the Southern Province had suggested to Samarakoon to compose a song that would inspire a feeling of patriotism in the listeners. Namo Namo Matha was his response to Jayasuriya's suggestion. He called it a Jatika Geeya national song. Samarakoon has made a note in one of his books that he composed it in October 1940. This fact was stated in an article in the tabloid Nava Yugaya of Nov. 5, 1984. It was first sung in public before W. Dahanayaka, then Mayor of Galle. He was accompanied by Elain de Silva with whom he had earlier sung the duet Endada Menike. Two years later in 1942 he sang Namo Namo Matha in a 'Sarala Gee' programme on Radio Ceylon. This time he was accompanied by a pupil of his, Swarna de Silva who was then his partner in singing duets. The song first appeared in print in 1943 in a book of songs titled Kumudini with a foreword by T.D. Jayasuriya. Namo Namo Matha and some other songs that Samarakoon sang with Swarna de Silva were recorded by H.M.V. the gramaphone record company" [1]
- The Island (April 5 2016): "Namo Namo Matha...Some of us are fortunate enough to travel the world and every time we fly back and get the first glimpse of the wonderful ’Pearl of the Indian Ocean’ we are overwhelmed by its beauty. Unlike us, it is said that the first time Ananda Samarakoon flew back from India in October 1940, having done previous journeys by train, he put his thoughts to verse and ‘Namo Namo Matha’ was born. He spoke for all of us when he penned:"Sundara siribarini surendiethi Sobhamana Lanka Dhanya dhanayaneka mal palaturu piri Jayabhoomiya ramya" He was the music teacher in Mahinda College, Galle and got the children to sing it as a patriotic song, the cry for freedom being embedded in the line "Nava jeevana demine nevatha apa avadikaran Matha" meaning ‘Awake us again for a new dawn". He recorded it with Swarna de Silva in 1946 and it became an instantant hit.[2]
- These two and also this source from a curator who has access to all of Tagore's writing (which would contain the original version of "Namo Namo Mata" in Bengali if it existed: * Livemint (May 6 2011): "Tagore made a roundabout entry, having inspired the creation of the Sri Lankan national anthem, Sri Lanka Matha. “Jana Gana Mana and the Sri Lankan national anthem are based on the same raga too,” explains Supriya Roy, who is curating anexhibition of photographs, text, poems and manuscripts titled Rabindranath Tagore: Pilgrimages to the East, which opens on Monday to coincide with Tagore’s 150th birth anniversary. A letter from Ananda Samarakoon, the composer of the Sri Lankan anthem, to Tagore is in the possession of the Tagore archives of Visva-Bharati University, Roy says In it, Samarakoon—a former student at Tagore’s Visva-Bharati University in Santiniketan who was moved by Rabindrasangeet to create the modern Geeta Sahitya music style in Sri Lanka—expresses gratitude to Tagore and hopes the Sri Lankan song “pleases” him.." [3]
- This is a great deal of specific information and isn't very general and vague like most of Obi's sources. Only Haroon Habib from those sources comes up with a scenario on how Tagore came to write the poem for Ananda and it doesn't stand up to the reality of Tagore's situation at that time. Tagore was bedridden in 1937 and not at Santinketan to be interacting with students as suggested by Habib. BlueLotusLK (talk) 23:21, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @BlueLotusLK: Can you pin point the sources that explain the anthem's creation in great detail? I did notice this one. @Obi2canibe: How do the journalists you reference hold a similar weight as this source, for example? --JustBerry (talk) 23:14, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Obi2canibe: Thanks for the reply. @BlueLotusLK: Looking at he first paragraph of the "History" section here, which sentences do you disagree with or would like to add? --JustBerry (talk) 23:00, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Prior to the current dispute the article did mention the ambiguity - please see the first paragraph of the "History" section of this version of the article. This can of course be updated/rephrased to take into account the many new sources that BlueLotusLK and I have found recently.--obi2canibetalk contr 22:56, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- There are some academics within the my sources above e.g. Nira Wickramasinghe and Ashis Nandy. Wickramasinghe is particularly a good source as she is a professor of Modern South Asian Studies with good Google scholar presence and she's Sri Lankan meaning she can't be accused of being biased in favour of Indians. The date of her book (2003) means she can't be accused of copying Wikipedia or Indian news websites.--obi2canibetalk contr 23:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- They are academics admittedly, but does a passing comment by them rise to the same level of reliability as the curator of Rabrindranath Tagore's possessions at Shantiniketan who is in possession of communications between Tagore and Samarakoon? The fact that the CIA World Factbook states that Ananda Samarakoon is the composer and writer of the National Anthem indicates that it is the widely accepted view and thus should be given precedence. If there was ambiguity on the author I would think the CIA would mention that. BlueLotusLK (talk) 01:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- There are some academics within the my sources above e.g. Nira Wickramasinghe and Ashis Nandy. Wickramasinghe is particularly a good source as she is a professor of Modern South Asian Studies with good Google scholar presence and she's Sri Lankan meaning she can't be accused of being biased in favour of Indians. The date of her book (2003) means she can't be accused of copying Wikipedia or Indian news websites.--obi2canibetalk contr 23:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- The "communication" only states that Samarakoon expresses gratitude to Tagore and hopes the Sri Lankan song “pleases” him. This can be interpreted in many ways. Is Samarakoon thanking Tagore for helping him write the anthem? Maybe Tagore wrote the music (as one of my sources states) and Samarakoon finished off the anthem by writing the lyrics. Or vice versa.
- The CIA World Factbook isn't as reliable as you think. This version from March 2015 gives the Sri Lankan Tamil population to be 3.9% of Sri Lanka's total population and gives Sinhala as the sole official language. If you didn't know anything about Sri Lanka and considered the CIA World Factbook to be gospel, as you seem to be doing, you would assume those two facts to be correct. But they're not. In fact Sri Lankan Tamils constitute 11% of the population and Tamil has also been an official language since 1987. If the CIA can make mistakes like that, what's to say they haven't made a mistake about the creator of the anthem?
- I have no issue with giving precedence to the view that Samarakoon wrote the anthem. But my understanding was that you wanted the article to only give the view that Samarakoon wrote the anthem i.e. erase/dismiss any notion that Tagore wrote it. Correct if me if I am wrong.--obi2canibetalk contr 14:31, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- The curator also states that Tagore inspired rather than wrote the National Anthem and doesn't share the full content of the letter which leads him to arrive at this conclusion. Are you now admitting that reliable sources can make mistakes as you have found an old version of the CIA World Factbook to have done so? What is to say your sources are not making a mistake as well? The version of the World Factbook I'm linking to has fixed its errors and is reliable unless proven otherwise. I want to state that the widely held view in Sri Lanka and the West is Ananda Samarakoon wrote and composed the National Anthem and only include him in the infobox. You can discuss the Tagore authorship theory after that as long as the critical view of the theory as presented by Kamal Wickremasinghe in the Island article is included as well as the fact the curator being unaware of Tagore writing it. BlueLotusLK (talk) 18:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I have no issue with giving precedence to the view that Samarakoon wrote the anthem. But my understanding was that you wanted the article to only give the view that Samarakoon wrote the anthem i.e. erase/dismiss any notion that Tagore wrote it. Correct if me if I am wrong.--obi2canibetalk contr 14:31, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I would propose something like this: " Although the official and widely held view in Sri Lanka and the West is Ananda Samarakoon wrote and composed the National Anthem, several alternate views have been proposed in Indian media in the 2000s and by a few Sri Lankan academics. The predominant of which is the idea advanced by Haroon Habib in 2011 that Tagore wrote the original song of "Sri Lanka Matha" in 1938 and Samarakoon later translated it in 1940. This view has been shared by Junaidul Haque, J. P. Alexander, Kamanathi Wickramasinghe and Yoshitha Perea of the Daily Mirror, Aakanksha Singh of the Daily News and Analysis, Sushmita Sen of the International Business Times, a staff writer of the Hindustan Times, Khaled Ahmed of the Indian Express, a staff writer of India Today, Mamun Rashid of the Dhaka Tribune, Bipin Dani of the Pakistan Observer and Shivam Vij of the Huffington Post India. Another view is that Tagore only composed the music but didn't write the lyrics which has been shared by Nira Wickramasinghe, A. M. A. Muhith and Ashish Nandy. An Article in the Island by Doctor Kamal Wickramasinghe was critical of this view. Wickramasinghe directly challenged Haroon writing that "Haroon’s assertion that Sri Lanka’s anthem is based on a Bengali song written by Tagore, and wast translated into Sinhala by his pupil Ananda Samarakoon is unsubstantiated. A careful search of the complete works of Tagore in original Bengali - the 30 volume Rabindra Rachanavali - has failed to show any poem by Tagore that vaguely resembles the possible original words of Namo Namo Matha." Supriya Roy, A curator of Tagore's works at Visva Bharati University, similiarly stated that Tagore inspired the creation rather than wrote the Sri Lankan National Anthem in a Livemint article after looking at a letter that Samarakoon had sent to Tagore." BlueLotusLK (talk) 18:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- Whilst its good that you are now willing to include the view that Tagore wrote the anthem you are still trying to steer the reader into thinking that this view is somehow unworthy, violating WP:NPOV. You are suggesting that Haroon Habib was the first person to suggest that Tagore wrote the anthem. This is untrue. You are suggesting, without any evidence, that most of my sources have copied Habib. And you are giving too much credence to Kamal Wickramasinghe who is not an expert on this subject and is known Sri Lankan nationalist.
- It's not only Indian media who are saying that Tagore wrote the anthem, Sri Lankan media also do. It's not only Sri Lankan academics who are saying that Tagore wrote the anthem, Indian academics also do. From what I can see there is only one western source, the CIA. One source cannot speak for the entire western world, particularly when I have shown it is capable of being factually incorrect.
- I would suggest a much shorter paragraph, something like: "There are differing accounts as to the origin of the Sri Lanka Matha. The most widely held view is that Sri Lankan composer Ananda Samarakoon wrote the music and lyrics to the song inspired/influenced by Tagore. A minority suggest that Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore wrote the anthem in full. Some have suggested that Tagore wrote the music whilst Samarakoon wrote the lyrics.".--obi2canibetalk contr 21:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- That's fine. Let's go with that. I would like the infobox to just say Ananda as that's the majority view. BlueLotusLK (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- I would suggest a much shorter paragraph, something like: "There are differing accounts as to the origin of the Sri Lanka Matha. The most widely held view is that Sri Lankan composer Ananda Samarakoon wrote the music and lyrics to the song inspired/influenced by Tagore. A minority suggest that Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore wrote the anthem in full. Some have suggested that Tagore wrote the music whilst Samarakoon wrote the lyrics.".--obi2canibetalk contr 21:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- That's fine. Thank you for your co-operation. Bit busy now but when I have time I will add the above text with references at beginning of History section. Might have to tweak existing paras so that the narrative flows better. You are welcome to do this if you have time. Thanks to JustBerry for mediating.--Obi2canibe (talk) 20:34, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
References
- ^ Sumana Saparamadu. "The Origin of our National Anthem". Sunday Observer. Associated Newspapers of Ceylon. Retrieved 6 December 2015.
- ^ Wijaywardhana, Dr. Upul (5 April 2016). "The Forgotten Genius". The Island.
- ^ "The Asian Mind". Livemint. 6 May 2011.
Talk:Donald Trump
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Talk:Al-Ahbash#Qibla
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
- Talk:Al-Ahbash#Qibla (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)
Users involved
- Chaabano (talk · contribs)
- McKhan (talk · contribs)
- Barelvi (talk · contribs)
- MezzoMezzo (talk · contribs)
Dispute overview
Please note that the Author had wrote "Qiblah" page dispute to confuse us about the real page issue [Al-Ahbash] page where I found contradicting information listed by authors who share or came from the same background. I tried editing by removing the wrong information but the authors put them back. Then I tried one to two lines comments under each subject then i was accused of warring. So I started the talk but other authors were not interested. One major issue is about a person name [Tariq Ramadan] who has for many is the head of what they call themselves Muslim Brotherhood or Hizb Al-Ekhwan. He has conflicts with a lot of groups, so other authors decided to use his comments about the group [Al-Ahbash] . Tariq Ramadan comments about the Al-Ahbash groups is irrelevant because he is in conflict with the group, and since his Brotherhood groups will use all kind of methods deadly and not deadly against regime's changes where Al-Ahbash is the opposite they use non-violent methods and will not be involved in regime's changes. So I have requested removal of his comments as bios and the authors are bios too.
- Second about Qiblah issue, I have traveled to North America from West to east driving 6000 miles round trip. I have stopped at many major cities where I examined Qibla directions at random mosques, I have seen some Mosques directions to Muslim preyers are North East and some Are East-South East. I have talked to physics, engineering, Mathematicians, and other professors at MIT LAB Artificial intelligence San Francisco State University and Stanford university. We concluded after careful studies that Qiblah in North America for Muslim's preyers toward Meccas in Saudi Arabia is South East South. My reasoning is that direction as explain by Merriam Dictionary "something is pointing or facing". Since the earth is not flat. the direction will cross the earth to reach the straight line between North America and Mecca In Saudi Arabia. I just would want to add my findings.
Have you tried to resolve this previously?
I tried the Talk but did not work. Please examine Al-Ahbash page which is the real issue page, unfortunately, the author or authors have written "Qiblah" page for more confusion. The page that I found contradicting information and tried to editing it is called [Al-Ahbash] article.
How do you think we can help?
By examining my point of view vs the other authors point of views which are not willing to change. There are wars in the Middle East, There are a lot of groups and many are using Islam in wrong way to promote violence and regime's changes. Since I am not going into politics, I just would want to show readers that Tariq Ramadan comments about non violence groups which are know to defend themselves is irrelevant especially from a person who is the head of an organization that promotes violence.
Summary of dispute by McKhan
Summary of dispute by Barelvi
Summary of dispute by MezzoMezzo
Talk:Al-Ahbash#Qibla discussion
- Verified that the involved parties have been notified on their talk page. Note to Chaabano: Please make sure you list involved parties in the case and notify them on their respective talk pages with the following template: {{subst:drn-notice}} (refer to Template:drn-notice for documentation) in the future. I have done it for you this time. --JustBerry (talk) 05:34, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
- Volunteer note: Additional sections have been inserted for involved editors to provide their summaries of the dispute. @McKhan: @Barelvi: @MezzoMezzo: Inviting involved parties to provide said summaries. --JustBerry (talk) 17:13, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Talk:Muttahida Quami Movement Pakistan
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
- Talk:Muttahida Quami Movement Pakistan (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)
Users involved
- Saqib (talk · contribs)
- Rameezraja001 (talk · contribs)
Dispute overview
Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) divided into two factions late 2016 when one its senior member Farooq Sattar disassociated the party from MQM founder and chief Altaf Hussain.
Media reports says that "MQM is registered with the Election Commission of Pakistan in the name of Dr Farooq Sattar" as since 2002 which make him leader of MQM. Farooq Sattar also stated "MQM is Pakistan. The MQM is registered in Pakistan and recognises the laws and Constitution of Pakistan."
But on the other hand, Altaf Hussain claim he's the leader of MQM and dismissed Faroor Sattar from the party membership. Media label Altaf Hussain as the leader of MQM’s London-based leader while Farooq Sattar as the leader of MQM Pakistan.
Now the question is do we really need a separate page Muttahida Quami Movement Pakistan?
I tried to resolve the issue on MQM Pakistan talk page but did not work.
Have you tried to resolve this previously?
Talk:Muttahida Quami Movement Pakistan
How do you think we can help?
Not sure.
Summary of dispute by Rameezraja001
Scenario
MQM has been divided into two factions. MQM's founder Altaf Hussain (Pakistani politician)'s faction and the dissident faction which identifies its leader as Farooq Sattar (parliamentary leader of MQM) under the name MQM-Pakistan who was a deputy convener of the original MQM. Altaf Hussain (Pakistani politician) being the founder and leader has dismissed the faction and demanded resignations but the MQM-Pakistan insists that it is the original MQM and it has dismissed the founder and leader Altaf Hussain. MQM-Pakistan has changed MQM's constitution which eliminates the founder from the party and has also claimed to dismiss the convener Nadeem Nusrat as well. Nadeem Nusrat doesn't identify with Farooq Sattar's faction and embraces authority of Altaf Hussain. So in short we have two distinct parties working independent. MQM-London is not the name recognized by the founder of MQM and this name is only tagged by the pakistani media, there is no official declaration for this name, while Farooq Sattar does call his faction by another name that is MQM-Pakistan.
My points
Saqib insists that the two MQM pages must be merged as one and to maintain status quo (his own words).
I totally agree with him, but the problem is, he wants to change the leader name from Altaf Hussain to Farooq Sattar (as he thinks that farooq sattar is the true leader of MQM), and convener as Amir Khan. My opinion is, for the status quo, we should not change the leader's name and maintain altaf hussain as the leader as he is the founder of MQM and constitutionally its his authority to nominate for MQM leadership. His second in command, Nadeem Nusrat also doesn't recognize Farooq sattar's decisions and has expelled him from the party. My opinion according to the facts is, Altaf Hussain and Nadeem Nusrat being senior most leaders can't be over ruled by a junion leader who now claims to lead the party. It was Saqib who started disturbing the MQM's page by change the MQM's infobox, and then changing the MQM's page name into MQM-London. I then decided that the matter can be resolved by making two separate pages for two separate MQMs, so i changed redirected page of MQM-Pakistan into a separate individual page and made a separate info box for farooq sattar's faction. I think that this is the most amicable and reasonable settlement to the issue but Saqib insists on keep changing the pages according to his wishes, but to be honest its not very reasonable. I therefore insist that both the pages be maintained as it is and not merged them into one. and if merged it will generate a vast conflict regarding history, infobox, party name, websites, further expansion of the article based on two conflicting resources.
As far as Saqib's ECP party registration source is concerned, the party has been registered with Farooq Sattar's name since 2002 (as he claims). My point of view is Farooq Sattar back in 2002 did accept Altaf Hussain as Leader and this shows that party can be registered in his name but that alone doesn't guarantee his leadership authorization. All info regarding MQM can be verified from MQM's website
Rameezraja001 (talk) 20:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Talk:Muttahida Quami Movement Pakistan discussion
- Volunteer Note - There has been adequate discussion at the article talk page. However, is the real question one of article content, or is it whether to merge two articles or keep them separate? If this is a merge discussion, see WP:Merging. If there is a dispute between two groups or within a group, the neutral point of view policy requires that Wikipedia report it in a neutral fashion. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:29, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Closed discussion |
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