Salvidrim! (talk | contribs) →Discussion: finalizing viewpoint |
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:* It's a menu of options, not a single coherent proposal. <small>[[User talk:NE Ent|NE Ent]]</small> 16:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
:* It's a menu of options, not a single coherent proposal. <small>[[User talk:NE Ent|NE Ent]]</small> 16:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' on #1, strongly on #2. The third one would be moot if the first one passes, but would be second choice. Clearly he doesn't care that he's disruptive to others and shows zero desire to change. [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#030">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] 15:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' on #1, strongly on #2. The third one would be moot if the first one passes, but would be second choice. Clearly he doesn't care that he's disruptive to others and shows zero desire to change. [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#030">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] 15:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
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*'''Undecided''' on all three points, for the same reason -- there are evident behaviour issues, but the actual content work is definitely non-negligible and if that work could be continued, the encyclopedia ultimately wins. However that doesn't excuse the actions outside of content work and there is also a real possibility or driving off other good editors. I would, without hesitation, '''Support''' a fourth, intermediary option of a mutual interaction ban with [[User:Sjones23]] but that doesn't resolve the rest... If anything, option #2 seems reasonable and potentially helpful but I worry that if he cannot improve an article all the way through to GA, including the nomination process, he might not be motivated to work on the articles themselves... I will keep reading the points and remain open to changing my mind. Note I am in no way defending his attitude or behaviour and I believe it is a very important problem; however he's done good article work and if we could find a solution that would still allow the encyclopedia to be improved by his work, that'd be ideal. <span style="13px Sylfaen;color:white;background-color:#000000;padding:0 3px 0 3px;">''':)''' ·[[User:Salvidrim|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]· [[User talk:Salvidrim|<span style="color:white">✉</span>]]</span> 15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
*<del>'''Undecided'''</del> on all three points, for the same reason -- there are evident behaviour issues, but the actual content work is definitely non-negligible and if that work could be continued, the encyclopedia ultimately wins. However that doesn't excuse the actions outside of content work and there is also a real possibility or driving off other good editors. I would, without hesitation, '''Support''' a fourth, intermediary option of a mutual interaction ban with [[User:Sjones23]] but that doesn't resolve the rest... If anything, option #2 seems reasonable and potentially helpful but I worry that if he cannot improve an article all the way through to GA, including the nomination process, he might not be motivated to work on the articles themselves... I will keep reading the points and remain open to changing my mind. Note I am in no way defending his attitude or behaviour and I believe it is a very important problem; however he's done good article work and if we could find a solution that would still allow the encyclopedia to be improved by his work, that'd be ideal. <span style="13px Sylfaen;color:white;background-color:#000000;padding:0 3px 0 3px;">''':)''' ·[[User:Salvidrim|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]· [[User talk:Salvidrim|<span style="color:white">✉</span>]]</span> 15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC) |
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:*After seeing the discussions, I am revising my position -- '''Oppose option 1''' because I do not believe the community has been fair and neutral towards Niemti and I believe that some amount of baiting happened. I am however not opposed to having someone review whether the behaviour goes against the conditions of his previous unban. '''Neutral option 2''' because the problems are evident, but not on every review which begs the question of whether the issue really is with Niemti... '''Oppose option 3''' because the quantity and quality of his work is impressive and there are no problems with his editing; merely with his behaviour. '''Strong Support Interaction Ban''' between Sjones23 and Niemti; both have agree anyhow. I also believe Sjones23 needs to be reprimanded for his apparent hounding, or at the very least for his inability to disengage despite stating numerous times he was disengaging. <span style="13px Sylfaen;color:white;background-color:#000000;padding:0 3px 0 3px;">''':)''' ·[[User:Salvidrim|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><span style="color:white">Salvidrim!</span></span>]]· [[User talk:Salvidrim|<span style="color:white">✉</span>]]</span> 16:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC) |
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* 1a. '''Support''' site ban per prior AN discussion. [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive241#User:Niemti.2C_community_ban_proposal|here]] |
* 1a. '''Support''' site ban per prior AN discussion. [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive241#User:Niemti.2C_community_ban_proposal|here]] |
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: 1b. '''Oppose''' appeal to ArbCom provision -- appeal should be to community in six months |
: 1b. '''Oppose''' appeal to ArbCom provision -- appeal should be to community in six months |
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RfC: Change INFOBOXUSE to recommend the use of infoboxes?
(Initiated 72 days ago on 15 March 2024) Ready to be closed. Charcoal feather (talk) 17:02, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
new closer needed |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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WP:RSN#RFC:_The_Anti-Defamation_League
(Initiated 50 days ago on 7 April 2024) Three related RFCs in a trench coat. I personally think the consensus is fairly clear here, but it should definitely be an admin close. Loki (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- FYI this discussion can now be found in Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 439. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 21:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Enforcing ECR for article creators
(Initiated 49 days ago on 8 April 2024) Discussion appears to have died down almost a month after this RfC opened. Would like to see a formal close of Q1 and Q2. Awesome Aasim 00:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Brothers of Italy#RfC on neo-fascism in info box 3 (Effectively option 4 from RfC2)
(Initiated 49 days ago on 8 April 2024) Clear consensus for change but not what to change to. I've handled this RfC very badly imo. User:Alexanderkowal — Preceding undated comment added 11:50, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The RfC tag was removed the same day it was started. This should be closed as a discussion, not an RfC. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Mukokuseki#RfC on using the wording "stereotypically Western characteristics" in the lead
(Initiated 46 days ago on 11 April 2024) ☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 09:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- See Talk:Mukokuseki#Close Plz 5/21/2024 Orchastrattor (talk) 20:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:SpaceX Starship flight tests#RfC: Should we list IFT mission outcome alongside launch outcome?
(Initiated 36 days ago on 20 April 2024) An involved user has repeatedly attempted to close this after adding their arguments. It's a divisive topic and a close would stop back and forth edits. DerVolkssport11 (talk) 12:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- To clarify, the RfC was closed in this dif, and an IP editor unclosed it, with this statement: "involved and pushing"
- In just over an hour, the above editor voiced support for the proposal.
- I reclosed it, and the same IP opened the RfC again, with this message: "pushing by involved users so ask for more comments".
- I reclosed once more. And then the editor who opened this requests opened it. To avoid violated WP:3RR, I have not reclosed it, instead messaging the original closer to notify them.
- The proposal itself was an edit request that I rejected. The IP who made the request reopened the request, which I rejected once more. They then proceeded to open an RfC. Redacted II (talk) 12:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Hunter Biden#RfC: Washington Post report concerning emails
(Initiated 33 days ago on 24 April 2024) There's been no comments in 5 days. TarnishedPathtalk 03:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 27#Category:Unrecognized tribes in the United States
(Initiated 50 days ago on 7 April 2024) This one has been mentioned in a news outlet, so a close would ideally make sense to the outside world. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 13:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Stress marks in East Slavic words
(Initiated 21 days ago on 6 May 2024) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Amina Hassan Sheikh
(Initiated 20 days ago on 6 May 2024) If the consensus is to do the selective histmerge I'm willing to use my own admin tools to push the button and do it. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
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Talk:Rupert_Sheldrake#Talkpage_"This_article_has_been_mentioned_by_a_media_organization:"_BRD
(Initiated 41 days ago on 16 April 2024) - Discussion on a talkpage template, Last comment 6 days ago, 10 comments, 4 people in discussion. Not unanimous, but perhaps there is consensus-ish or strength of argument-ish closure possible. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn't seem to me that there is a consensus here to do anything, with most editors couching their statements as why it might (or might not) be done rather than why it should (or should not). I will opine that I'm not aware there's any precedent to exclude {{Press}} for any reason and that it would be very unusual, but I don't think that's good enough reason to just overrule Hipal. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 01:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May#Multiple page move of David articles
(Initiated 26 days ago on 1 May 2024) * Pppery * it has begun... 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Press_Your_Luck_scandal#Separate_articles
(Initiated 25 days ago on 2 May 2024) Please review this discussion. --Jax 0677 (talk) 01:42, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Agroforestry#Merge_proposal
(Initiated 24 days ago on 3 May 2024) As the proposer I presume I cannot close this. It was started more than a week ago and opinions differed somewhat. Chidgk1 (talk) 13:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May#2018–2019 Gaza border protests
(Initiated 18 days ago on 9 May 2024) * Pppery * it has begun... 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
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Colton Cosmic
Colton Cosmic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 97.72.232.122 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Does Colton Cosmic have a documented pattern of trying to hack into other people's accounts, whether Wikipedia or otherwise? Logging into my Gmail account just now, I found a message from the system: "Someone recently tried to use an application to sign in to your Google Account. Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:22:32 PM UTC IP Address: 97.72.232.122 Location: Hialeah, FL, USA". I've changed my passwords, of course, and I can't find evidence of damage, but I'm concerned because this IP has a block log and userpage (and at least one contribution) indicating that it's Colton Cosmic, and we definitely don't want longtime sockpuppetteers trying to hack our accounts. Nyttend (talk) 00:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Such a lame attempt at hacking would fit his general pattern of clueless behavior, he is basically his own worst enemy. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Kind admin, the modus operandi of these individuals when I defend myself is "revert, block, re-accuse." So this comment won't last long. It's probably too much to ask that you take up my defense, but perhaps you can reread that it may make some minor impression. I have been falsely accused of socking dozens of times now, but this is the first time I've been falsely accused of hacking. What Nytend apparently has done here is take the IP from some Gmail notification, plug it in over here at Wikipedia, determine that I have used the IP (because I signed the edit, there's no detective work here), and infer that I attempted to hack him. This overlooks the fact that many, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people I'd suppose, may use the same IP.
- I'd seen the user ID, but I don't know Nytend, had no interaction with him that I recall, had neither positive nor negative impression of him until now, and wouldn't know his Gmail address in a million years. Is that enough to address his and Beeblebrox' hacking insinuation?
- As for sockpuppeting, I've never done it. I'm blocked for it, but no evidence or explanation of this has ever been offered. Just look! ;) Yes, I openly block-evaded, signing my IP edits, but this is not socking. It is the opposite of socking. I claim that is justifiable block-evasion, not because the case happened to go against me, but because there was never any case. This is Colton Cosmic.
Peter Damian socks
In the middle of June 2011, User:Elen of the Roads, apparently on behalf of the ArbCom, removed all mentions of User:Peter Damian socks by blanking, protecting and deleting a lot of pages, thereby emptying the categories Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Peter Damian and Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Peter Damian. In a discussion on Elen's talk page concerning these actions, she stated "The person behind all the accounts has agreed to stop entirely all attempts to edit Wikipedia - if he doesn't I'll put the main pages back myself, with added vim."[1].
Despite the agreement of Peter Damian to stop all attempts to edit Wikipedia, he continued doing this. I noted this at User talk:Elen of the Roads#PD socking, reminding her of her earlier promise quoted above. The reply was a bit wishy-washy, but made it clear that she agreed basically that the agreement was now void. When further socking happened a few months later from User:86.169.241.160, I proceeded to restore the cats, user pages, and user talk pages, to make it easier to spot further socks and to clarify parts of the history behind this account for any newer or unaware editors (keeping also in mind the regular "let's unblock Peter Damian threads).
This led to some protests: User talk:Fram#Please stop had User:Risker protesting, stating a.o. that "there is very good reason to believe that many of those accounts are not associated with him at all". As far as I can tell, only one was actually mistagged, not the "many" claimed in that post. User:Bishonen also questioned my actions, both at my user talk page and at User talk:Elen of the Roads#I mentioned you.., with some support for Bishonen by User:Volunteer Marek, and some opposition by User:Demiurge1000.
Meanwhile, User:Reaper Eternal felt the need to remove the sock tags from User:Peter Damian[2], and User:AGK re-removed the "banned" tag from User talk:Peter Damian[3]. Some discussion about both actions can be found at User talk:AGK#PD and User talk:Reaper Eternal/Archive 21#Peter Damian.
So now I wonder: a banned editor gets a courtesy blanking and deletion of most information relating to his socking, on the condition that he stops socking: he violates that agreement repeatedly; why should we keep "our" side of the bargain and keep relevant information hidden? We don't do the same for other long-term banned socks. Note, as a bonus, that a courtesy blanking and deletion was already done in 2008 when the editor exercised his "right to vanish". These deletions were also not undone, and most deletions of that user page are deleted as well. Socks from this time, like User:Renamed user 5, have been silently removed from the socks categories as well.
Why are some people, including members of ArbCom, going to all this trouble to "protect" the user name of this account (which, for clarity, isn't his real name), even when the user shows no interest in respecting his own promises in return? Why are tags and notices which are standard for all banned socks c.s. suddenly unacceptable in this case? Fram (talk) 15:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is coming across as a bit petty and WP:DICKish, honestly. Courtesy blanking is just that; a courtesy that was extended to this person at the time. Later actions shouldn't be used as a reason to renege or rescind a courtesy, any more than one would demand gifts to be returned from a spouse once they become an ex-spouse. Tarc (talk) 16:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Is it suspected that Peter Damian is editing again? Giano 16:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- From my initial reading of Fram's post (and I of course wait to hear from everyone else involved before making a final decision) it appears that members of ArbCom have conspired to 'protect' a banned user who (perhaps) continues to sock, for some inexplicable reason. Fram, can you provide evidence of recent socking please? GiantSnowman 16:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would strongly doubt that he is being allowed to edit again, under any name. From what I remember, he cooked his books and burnt his bridges very well and truly. The Arbcom would never be so foolish. Giano 16:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- From my initial reading of Fram's post (and I of course wait to hear from everyone else involved before making a final decision) it appears that members of ArbCom have conspired to 'protect' a banned user who (perhaps) continues to sock, for some inexplicable reason. Fram, can you provide evidence of recent socking please? GiantSnowman 16:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- The "bizarre statement" is yours Paul B. What evidence do you have that Peter Damien is continuing to sock? None? Malleus Fatuorum 16:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Apparently you can't read: "If he is continuing to sock (I've no idea if he is) then no such courtesy should apply, surely." What was bizarre was the "logic" of Fram's assertion. Whether PD is in fact socking is a separate question from what should be done if he is. Paul B (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Is it suspected that Peter Damian is editing again? Giano 16:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- There is no "standard"; see Wikipedia_talk:User_pages#RFC:_Concerning_banned_and_indeffed_users NE Ent 16:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Elen's actions suggest that she has access to Torchwood software. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- @Paul B, it isn't rocket science; just because someone is rude to you doesn't give you an automatic right to be rude in return. Going back to a banned user's page and re-tagging it years after the fact was utterly pointless, it was of no benefit to the project. My analogy was sound, your lack of understanding is not a concern of mine. Tarc (talk) 17:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Your analogy was nonsensical. My 'lack of understanding' is because it did not make sense. No-one is being rude to anyone. Providing information is the issue. It isn't rocket science. Paul B (talk) 17:39, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- It was not nonsensical or unintelligible, but your responses thus far have been just that. Let's try this real simple-like; 1) something courteous (blanking) was done for Damian. 2) Damian is alleged to have done something discourteous (socking) at some point later on. 3) Fram contends that that the original blanking was a sort of quid pro quo (that's, like, Latin, and stuff) now rendered null and void since one end was not upheld. 4) I feel that something done as a "courtesy" is not something that one usually takes back down the road, regardless of the actions of the other party...and if one does try to take such a thing back, it is somewhat of a dick move, hence the gift analogy. Now if you're done with the strawman (that's, like, logic, and stuff) retorts, maybe we can discuss the actual matter at hand. Tarc (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Your analogy was nonsensical. My 'lack of understanding' is because it did not make sense. No-one is being rude to anyone. Providing information is the issue. It isn't rocket science. Paul B (talk) 17:39, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- I seriously doubt there is an secret cabal of arbs and other admins that want to do nice things for Peter Damian or are protecting him. Tag warring over the content of banned user's pages is as tacky as it is pointless. WP:RBI, if there are any current socks at all, is a much better approach. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Can everyone please stop having little digs at one another? First things first, we need evidence of PD's socking - then we can discuss whether or not there has been any attempt to 'hide' it by those in a position of power. GiantSnowman 17:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think it really matters if there was socking or not. Re-tagging an old account as a "banned user" is simply Scarlet Letter-ish, to borrow a recently-used term for this. Tarc (talk) 18:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Don't you mean gravedancing? - Who is John Galt? ✉ 19:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The evidence of the continued socking? User:Hestiaea is one (e.g. [4] and User talk:Sue Gardner/5, where the editor claims to be writing a book about Wikipedia, something Damian is doing as well), and the IP User:86.169.241.160 self-identifies as Damian (using Damian's real name, which he had disclosed on Wikipedia earlier, so no outing here) here. There may be others (or not), these are just two that happened to cross my watchlist. Hestiaea is the kind of user that pretends to be a novice with innocent questions, wasting the time of editors, e.g. at Wikipedia talk:Fringe theories/Noticeboard. Fram (talk) 18:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Peter Damian is not writing that book alone, and in what sense is it "socking" if an IP reveals himself? Basically you have nothing but spiteful vengeance. Malleus Fatuorum 19:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- I didn't claim that he was writing that book on his own; if an IP reveals itself, it is still socking by all definitions (you don't suddenly get permission to edit with an edit or account as long as you reveal which banned user you actually are); and vengeance for what actually? Anyway, User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 116#Jagged 85 and Wikipedia accuracy has some more on Hestiaea, other IP socks, and Beeblebrox blocking the user. Fram (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
(Resp to Fram) If it's proven, then his past must be unhidden & he must have his new socks blocked. GoodDay (talk) 19:17, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I've never witnessed so much apparently-clueless hypocrisy than I've just seen by reading this thread. If there's something everyone here should know by now, it's that people who want to edit the encyclopedia "anyone can edit" can't be stopped from doing so. Why anyone still cares is a mystery to me, I've long since stopped. If I left my front door wide open during the day, I shouldn't be surprised to come home and find my furniture gone and my beer supply reduced to empty bottles. - Who is John Galt? ✉ 19:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think we are worrying needlessly. I'm quite sure Peter Damian manages to edit as an IP, but I am equally sure he will never again edit as an accepted named editor. Such as it is, I would stake my Wikipedia reputation on it - his history prevents that. Giano 19:22, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
This is another aftershock of the recent Wikipediocracy controversy. Let's wish that people would just stop looking for trouble, especially if they don't identify their vendettas when they continue the drama. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Yet another logic failure in my attempts to code a template... Can an admin revert the change made as a result of an edit protected request, and start a review of my suggested template modifcations back to January. I am having a distinct lack of confidence in my ability at the moment.
I'd also appreciate it if there was a general disscussion on how to ensure this DOESN'T happen again. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- Reverted. I don't understand the issue, so I can't participate in said discussion. Nyttend (talk) 16:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry, this was another mistake I made on Monday. The logic in the protected edit request was backwards, and I should have picked up on that when reviewing it. The revert improved the situation somewhat, but still wasn't entirely correct, so I have fixed it. With any luck, this time things should be working properly. I've also reduced the protection to semi, as there were only 500 transclusions. As to how to ensure this doesn't happen again, the answer is for me to actually check protected edit requests properly in the sandbox and test cases page before I make the edits. If anyone catches me being slapdash about this again, please apply trouts liberally to my talk page. (And by the way, it would have been nice to be informed about this thread.) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- My apoloigies,I should have let you know about this Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Giovanni Di Stefano
Old-timers and OTRS agents may remember Giovanni Di Stefano (businessman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), who threatened the WMF with action over his Wikipedia biography. He was today convicted of nine counts of obtaining a money transfer by deception, eight counts of fraud, three counts of acquiring criminal property, two counts of using a false instrument, one count of attempting to obtain a money transfer by deception, one count of obtaining property by deception and one count of using criminal property, related to his fake claims to be a lawyer. I must confess to some small personal satisfaction in adding that fact, sourced to three separate news organisations, to his biography. A great case of WP:DEADLINE: having bent over backwards to be fair to him, as we should, and having been attacked even so, we can now document the fact, adjudicated by a court, that he is a fake. No statement from him in reaction as yet but I expect an appeal. Guy (Help!) 16:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- Changed your link; it went to a disambiguation page. Nyttend (talk) 16:18, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oh yes, thank you. Guy (Help!) 17:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- And he's now been jailed for 14 years. Seems like a good result. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I see that the early revisions have all been revdel'd, but there is no entry in the deletion log. Can they be restored? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was going to suggest contacting the admin who did the deletions but, yeah, I can't figure out who that was either. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest that restoring any revisions be done with caution. I don't know the history here or what might have been deleted, but if there were unsourced allegations, they should not be restored - just because someone has been convicted of a crime now does not mean that our normal policies about living persons no longer apply. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would agree with this. I don't see how we have a desperate need for these lost revisions; if stuff needs to be "restored" it can be added anew from the original sources. Mangoe (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- The pair of deleted revisions from last September have been oversighted; you'd need an oversighter to restore them. It's hard to find them in the deletion log because the page has been moved multiple times and the logs don't move when the page does; if you check the logs for Giovanni di Stefano, you'll find that Coren removed a ton of revisions on 3 July 2009, citing "Attribution fix (avoid BLP)". The original version of the article had a bunch of information on him getting convicted of some things in the past, and the first publicly visible edit was one that removed a bunch of conviction-related things that appeared to be decently sourced, such as the (now dead-linked) http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071030/3/287t.html. At least the most recent of the deleted revisions appears fine (barring threats from the subject, I see no reason for it to have been removed), so I think it would be good to ask Coren for an undeletion. Note that there are also 472 deleted revisions in the history of Giovanni di Stefano; some are fragments of pagemoves, but others have content that might be worthy of undeletion; I've not looked at them, so I can't say. Nyttend (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I hadn't realized it had been moved more than once, that would explain it. I did check the OS log, obviously I can't go into specifics but those edits will indeed need to remain suppressed. I also agree that caution should be used and the revdeleted material should not just be put back wholesale. I'd ask Coren first, but basically any admin who wants to can review them one at a time and restore them if it seems warranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would just undelete the lot, frankly. I don't know what's in those diffs but from the contents of the talk page archives, it seems clear that Di Stefano was objecting to reliably sourced info about his criminal record. Of course, today's verdict makes it clear that his objections were just as fraudulent as anything else he got up to. Prioryman (talk) 23:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I hadn't realized it had been moved more than once, that would explain it. I did check the OS log, obviously I can't go into specifics but those edits will indeed need to remain suppressed. I also agree that caution should be used and the revdeleted material should not just be put back wholesale. I'd ask Coren first, but basically any admin who wants to can review them one at a time and restore them if it seems warranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- The pair of deleted revisions from last September have been oversighted; you'd need an oversighter to restore them. It's hard to find them in the deletion log because the page has been moved multiple times and the logs don't move when the page does; if you check the logs for Giovanni di Stefano, you'll find that Coren removed a ton of revisions on 3 July 2009, citing "Attribution fix (avoid BLP)". The original version of the article had a bunch of information on him getting convicted of some things in the past, and the first publicly visible edit was one that removed a bunch of conviction-related things that appeared to be decently sourced, such as the (now dead-linked) http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071030/3/287t.html. At least the most recent of the deleted revisions appears fine (barring threats from the subject, I see no reason for it to have been removed), so I think it would be good to ask Coren for an undeletion. Note that there are also 472 deleted revisions in the history of Giovanni di Stefano; some are fragments of pagemoves, but others have content that might be worthy of undeletion; I've not looked at them, so I can't say. Nyttend (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would agree with this. I don't see how we have a desperate need for these lost revisions; if stuff needs to be "restored" it can be added anew from the original sources. Mangoe (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest that restoring any revisions be done with caution. I don't know the history here or what might have been deleted, but if there were unsourced allegations, they should not be restored - just because someone has been convicted of a crime now does not mean that our normal policies about living persons no longer apply. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was going to suggest contacting the admin who did the deletions but, yeah, I can't figure out who that was either. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I see that the early revisions have all been revdel'd, but there is no entry in the deletion log. Can they be restored? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- And he's now been jailed for 14 years. Seems like a good result. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oh yes, thank you. Guy (Help!) 17:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
To note: The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs) appears to be trying to whitewash the article by removing mention of Di Stefano being a convicted fraudster and retitling it as referring to him as a "legal counsellor", which he never claimed to be. He also appears to be move warring. This is evidently in response to agitation on Wikipediocracy. Prioryman (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Anyone who looks at the sources and article will see that his claim to notability arises from him offering legal services to notorious people. That fraud is also often brought up in this context does not mean it is appropriate to define him as a fraudster and act like that is why people should know more about him. If you have a better term than suggest one, but labeling someone a fraudster at the top of their bio should only be done if being engaged in fraud is why the person is notable. Seems Stefano is notable primarily for his activities as legal counsel so anything that is faithful to that would be better, and he has simply faced fraud counts for presenting himself as having the necessary qualifications to serve that role.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 01:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Please keep the content dispute on the article talk page, thanks. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:07, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- If my memory serves, the early revisions mixed some (now proven) fact with some editorialising. We now have better sources, there's not much to be gained by restoring the early revisions, particularly as it would require a very careful rev by rev analysis to ensure that the material is accurate and well supported, and other material is not slipstreamed. Guy (Help!) 17:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Round Two done, Round Three is up
Round Two of the Requests for Comment (RfC) on the Requests for Adminship (RfA) process was a success by any measure, and has now been closed. The final round is a one-week vote on two proposals that got support, but relatively few votes, so we're advertising widely and hoping for broader participation in Round Three. - Dank (push to talk) 23:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- Which ones do you see as a "success"; I only see 3, but you said there were 4 at /3. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:25, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- The four listed in the closing statement: Concerned editors start searching for quality candidates, Auto-prospecting, Project for nominators and Unbundling - some U1 and G7s. - Dank (push to talk) 00:14, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- We've added another proposal, "Probation", to Round Three. Have a look. - Dank (push to talk) 18:49, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- The four listed in the closing statement: Concerned editors start searching for quality candidates, Auto-prospecting, Project for nominators and Unbundling - some U1 and G7s. - Dank (push to talk) 00:14, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Ban proposal for Niemti at RFC/U
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Fladrif has proposed a site ban and topic bans at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Niemti#Motion_to_close, which is not the usual page for such proposals, but perhaps it would be best not to move the discussion. This RFC/U has been going on since November; my closure was reverted. I think the disputants are going to require firm assistance in getting this elderly RFC/U shut down. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:03, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's absolutely the wrong venue to discuss a "community" topic ban. It's not a community ban by any sorts. It's a ban by editors with beef and a couple uninvolved passersby. It just simply doesn't get the audience required to enact such a proposal. That's why Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Guidance says "What RfC/U CANNOT do is: Impose/enforce involuntary sanctions, blocks, bans, or binding disciplinary measures." The proposal will have to move here or it's invalid. Your close was reverted because you didn't follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Closing but other than that there is no real reason you couldn't close it. Just keep in mind that the ban proposal can't be done on an RFC/U.--v/r - TP 12:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- TParis more or less has it - it would be fine to close that RfC as "proposals will be made on AN" or if you don't want to haul the entire discussion history here, you could probably just close it and then do an AN proposal asking the community to ratify "the suggestions in the motion to close on the RfC." But involuntary sanctions do need to be ratified here in some form, and an archiving of the RfC with no result or close text, which (seems to be?) what WhatamIdoing attempted is downright odd. WhatamIdoing, if you want to close it that's fine but you'll need to close it with some content in the close, based on the consensus (or lack thereof, I've only skimmed it) of the RfC. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- And while you're here, Whatamidoing, I'm going to go ahead and throw you under the bus: When will we be able to support you at RfA?--v/r - TP 15:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, the close was reverted because the disputants couldn't bring themselves to believe that RFC/Users/Closing really does say that RFC/Us should be closed after about a month or so if no progress is being made, despite no agreement having been reached, not because of any failure to follow the four steps on my part. They are simple enough steps: paste two templates, delete one line, and update a table. Closing statements are not provided in these instances. Whoever updates the table this time will see that the page has been listed as closed there for a long while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- And while you're here, Whatamidoing, I'm going to go ahead and throw you under the bus: When will we be able to support you at RfA?--v/r - TP 15:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- TParis more or less has it - it would be fine to close that RfC as "proposals will be made on AN" or if you don't want to haul the entire discussion history here, you could probably just close it and then do an AN proposal asking the community to ratify "the suggestions in the motion to close on the RfC." But involuntary sanctions do need to be ratified here in some form, and an archiving of the RfC with no result or close text, which (seems to be?) what WhatamIdoing attempted is downright odd. WhatamIdoing, if you want to close it that's fine but you'll need to close it with some content in the close, based on the consensus (or lack thereof, I've only skimmed it) of the RfC. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Looks like there is pretty clear consensus that the RFC needs to be closed, and that the formal ban needs to take place here, not there. So we'll need an uninvolved person to close (I participated.) and then assumeably someone will restart a more formal ban discussion here. Sergecross73 msg me 15:28, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yep. An uninvolved admin will have to summarize the RFC to see if a block is necessary and we can reference the additional evidence subpage if we have a ban discussion. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'll do that. Sandstein 17:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC) – Never mind, discussion at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Niemti#Timing and process appears to prefer letting the "motion to close" vote run for a bit longer. Sandstein 17:24, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yep. An uninvolved admin will have to summarize the RFC to see if a block is necessary and we can reference the additional evidence subpage if we have a ban discussion. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Heads up
This is sure to become very messy. Moriori (talk) 01:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Are you saying that kangaroos need to be tied down? --Jayron32 01:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest WP:oversight of these edits unless confirmed by reliable sources. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC).
- You are requesting oversight in the wrong place, Xxanthippe. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:45, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- and I suggest that the page needs to be fully protected until the situation is resolved. I make my comment here because that is where the thread started. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC).
- Agreed: I've just fully protected the article for 72 hours. Any admin may lift this protection (and drop the article back to semi protection) without consulting me if something is reported either way in reliable sources - as yet, there's nothing in reliable sources about this. Nick-D (talk) 06:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- and I suggest that the page needs to be fully protected until the situation is resolved. I make my comment here because that is where the thread started. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC).
- You are requesting oversight in the wrong place, Xxanthippe. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:45, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest WP:oversight of these edits unless confirmed by reliable sources. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC).
- It's almost certainly true, but since everybody questioned by police these days gets arrested, it is also of very limited value. We should wait until a statement is made by the police. Guy (Help!) 17:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
An arbitration case regarding SchuminWeb, and previously suspended by motion, has now closed. The original temporary injuction has been enacted:
[...] Should SchuminWeb decide to resign his administrative tools, the case will be closed and no further action taken. Should SchuminWeb not return to participate in the case within three months [...] the account will be desysopped. If the tools are resigned or removed in either of the circumstances described above, restoration of the tools to SchuminWeb will require a new request for adminship.
For the Arbitration Committee, — ΛΧΣ21 05:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- So in other words, SchuminWeb has been desysopped. All right, then. Kurtis (talk) 13:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a case of the user would rather just quite editing and take the desysop than waste a bunch of time in discussions in an Arbcom case and then be desysopped. This is precisely the type of situation that I have been talking about for months. Once an Arbcom case is accepted, the end result is that individual is desysopped, blocked or both. The Arb's wouldn't even take the case unless they thought it had merits so once its been excepted the end result is pretty clear and consistant, so why even bother arguing it? Is this really the message we want to send to the users of the site about Arbcom? I think not. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- That is not an inevitable result. Guy (Help!) 17:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Can you give me an example in the last couple years of an Arbcom case where the accused was not blocked, desysopped or both? The only one I can think of is the Doncram case recently which very nearly resulted in the desysopping of SarekofVulcan. That is the lone exception I know of. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 20:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Sure: Richard Arthur Norton, Falun Gong 2, GoodDay, article titles and capitalisation, abortion, BLP manipulation, AE, etc. Kurtis (talk) 06:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Can you give me an example in the last couple years of an Arbcom case where the accused was not blocked, desysopped or both? The only one I can think of is the Doncram case recently which very nearly resulted in the desysopping of SarekofVulcan. That is the lone exception I know of. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 20:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- That is not an inevitable result. Guy (Help!) 17:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a case of the user would rather just quite editing and take the desysop than waste a bunch of time in discussions in an Arbcom case and then be desysopped. This is precisely the type of situation that I have been talking about for months. Once an Arbcom case is accepted, the end result is that individual is desysopped, blocked or both. The Arb's wouldn't even take the case unless they thought it had merits so once its been excepted the end result is pretty clear and consistant, so why even bother arguing it? Is this really the message we want to send to the users of the site about Arbcom? I think not. KumiokoCleanStart (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I added the "discuss this" link that (I think) Hahc21 forgot. Traditionally people have argued endlessly and fruitlessly about ArbCom decisions at WT:AC/N, not here. This board is more for arguing endlessly and fruitlessly about other stuff. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:46, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- It is not! NE Ent 17:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- It is too! --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:18, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
-
- TOO --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
RfC proposal for community sanctions against Niemti
- Niemti (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Today I closed Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Niemti, which had been open since 1 November 2012. I summarized that
- "the RfC concludes that Niemti has regularly and over a long period of time engaged in misconduct such as incivility and personal attacks, article ownership, not using edit summaries, and disruption of the "good articles" process. Niemti has not indicated any readiness to change their conduct. There is consensus, in #Motion to close, that a proposal to site-ban and to topic-ban Niemti should be submitted to the community."
Accordingly, I refer the following proposal, as discussed in the RfC (with some copyediting to reflect current sanctions terminology) to the community.
- Niemti (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from editing Wikipedia. He may ask the Arbitration Committee to lift this ban after six months have elapsed.
- Niemti is indefinitely prohibited from participating in the good article nomination and good article reassessment of any article.
- Niemti is indefinitely topic-banned from the topic of video games, broadly construed.
Please indicate which parts of this proposal you support or oppose. My understanding is that the parts of the proposal are not mutually exclusive. Because this referral is part of the RfC closure, I myself am neutral. Sandstein 12:07, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
More evidence of his behavior can be found at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Niemti/Additional Evidence. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Niemti
- Note: Niemti is currently blocked. Their statement, if any, is transcluded from their talk page below.
Index
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This page has archives. Sections older than 2 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
I find it hard to belive you didn't know exactly what I meant, but for the record, special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee is what I meant. Please do not email me again, I won't be replying, thanks. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:13, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
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TerryThanks for the sources. I guess SNK's artists think Garou Terry was made to be cooler than regular Terry. This is not the first time they said that. In an article related to KOF 12, the staff said they wanted to reuse the original "macho" Terry rather than Garou's one. I guess it's similar to Kyo's redesigns where he starts wearing stylish costumes rather than the classic bancho school uniform often seen in many series like Jotaro Kujo from Jojo.Tintor2 (talk) 15:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for August 6An automated process has detected that when you recently edited King Arthur and the Knights of Justice, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Mark Hildreth (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:53, 6 August 2018 (UTC) TrishI managed to create an article for Trish (Devil May Cry). Feel free to add anything.Tintor2 (talk) 16:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC) Siegfried SchtauffenMalarkey such as creating grotesquely overdetailed articles on game characters over a redirect that has been agreed on in a wiki community discussion is the kind of behavior that , if persisted with, gets you 'blocked'.TheLongTone (talk) 13:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Please cease your random vandalism and random rants on people's talk pages. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
After further vandalism on an article that has been completed for years (namely for 7 years): [5] I now reported you. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
August 2018Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. categorize only in article space PRehse (talk) 20:00, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
How to fix a transpared-background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Siegfried_(Soulcalibur).png showing up as white background at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_and_Nightmare ? SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 02:13, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
I see you're sou're so confused that you even writing in a wrong section here. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:12, 10 June 2019 (UTC) ReminderSNAAAAKE!!, if you ever feel like another editor is making a wrong edit, or that you are being unfairly treated, please ping Atsme, myself or seek relevant project/noticeboard for advice before getting too involved. You have been doing good work, I would like to see it continue. Alex Shih (talk) 15:36, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Hey, left [6] asking for an apology, seems didn't get it still after few days. (The pic's fine now.) --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Eh, I don't even want any GAs anymore just to make this properly written especially as it's highly popular right now [7] (right now = for a year or so) due to the huge popularity of Fate Grand Order. I didn't do anything with the pic myself. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:33, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Jill ValentineHi. I noticed this edit on Beemer69's talk page, and was wondering if you'd like to discuss the article before I renominate it for FAC. What exactly is it you want to "share", sources or comments? Thanks. Homeostasis 22:45, 2 September 2018 (UTC) I don't think I'm supposed to be arguing with any ideologues on the terms of my, um, probation. Especially since even unprovoked they've already attacked me by name right there. But I've got a plenty of sources from old magazines, others who are seriously into Resi have all these Capcom books and stuff. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:19, 3 September 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Joe Musashi.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:20, 3 September 2018 (UTC) Any SNK heroine that might be worthy of an articleAs you know, SNK is releasing a fighting game centered around most of their female characters. Considering she is in the cover, I wondered if Kula might be able to surpass WP:Notability. I know some sources that talk about her creation (concept, appearance intention, gameplay in KOFXIII, and her redesigns for Maximum Impact). Den of Geek also listed her as one of the best KOF characters but I couldn't find much more reception information. In case you are interested, I'm willing to help. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 00:40, 6 September 2018 (UTC) King, but good luck finding stuff for her with searches. Better update and expand articles like King of Fighters, where most KOF games aren't even mentioned. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't really care about any western woke "journalists" clutching pearls for virtue signalling and clicks. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 16:05, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
It's not worth it. Really better for example fix the KOF article that doesn't even mention most games from the last decade and half, also make articles about the recent mobile games that are very popular in China (using Chinese and Japanese sources, because you can't count on western "game journalists" to report on video games). --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Use website translation services. Google Chrome even automatically does if enabled, using their own Google Translate. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 16:39, 7 September 2018 (UTC) Two games very popular right now are SNK's own The King of Fighters: World and Tencent's The King of Fighters: Destiny. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 16:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC) Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Slayers SFC gameplay.pngThank you for uploading File:Slayers SFC gameplay.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale. If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator seven days after the file was tagged in accordance with section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. ATTENTION: This is an automated, bot-generated message. This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Cyberdemon Doom2.jpgNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:56, 19 September 2018 (UTC) SNK's charactersI managed to highly expand the reception section from Athena Asamiya but I'm worried about Yuri Sakazaki's notability. If you found sources for her, I would appreciate it and add them to the article. I was also thinking of having an article for Leona Heidern but it seems there are not many sources besides some articles from Den of Geek. Cheers and happy editing.Tintor2 (talk) 22:33, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for October 14An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Excalibur: A Novel of Arthur, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Maiden Castle and Derfel (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:41, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Circe EraI gave the wrong guideline for retaining BCE dates in the Circle article. It is MOS:ERA, backed by MOS:DATERET, which reads in part: "The date format chosen by the first major contributor in the early stages of an article should continue to be used". Please don't start an edit war. Sweetpool50 (talk) 17:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
Guidelines leave creators free to choose which era is appropriate to an article. Circe was a 'pagan' goddess and her ancient representations fall within an era well before Christianity even existed, therefore Common Era dating fits better in that context. Just appealing to use on "Wikipedia as a whole" is meaningless without taking rationale for use into consideration. Sweetpool50 (talk) 09:59, 19 October 2018 (UTC) Kula DiamondI did Spanish game reviews research and found more reception about KOF character Kula Diamond so I decided to try a new article. Feel free to add anything. Also, Trish (Devil May Cry) managed to become a GA but feel free to correct anything. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 21:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Talim SCII.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:40, 22 October 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for October 22An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Heishiro Mitsurugi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Paul Phoenix (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 10:34, 22 October 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Ninja Combat game.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:35, 28 October 2018 (UTC) Soul CaliburHello, just a week ago I created a new table as an idea on the Soul Calibur talk page. Unfortunately, no one has yet answered, whether this idea is good or if there is something negartive. Could you please have a look. I do not want to change the table on the main page without a vote. ---TheKerberos01, 01:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Soulcalibur_characters#New_character_table Last names and allcapsI refer to your edits at Sheva Alomar. Please read MOS:SURNAME. "After the initial mention of any name, the person should generally be referred to by surname only". Accordingly, I'm going to revert all your changes of 'Redfield and Alomar' to 'Chris and Sheva'. This was one of many issues in the article I had to fix at this article before I was able to successfully nominate it for GA. Please don't ever change surnames to first names at any article. Have a nice day. Damien Linnane (talk) 10:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Again, it's Sheva not "Alomar". In both the official and the common use, as in the case of all RE protagonists. I'm really "mortified" more by that. The article could be as well named "Sheva (Resident Evil)", you know? Just like Sophitia Alexandra's article is just Sophitia, it's very common in video games that surnames are just unimportant. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:28, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The reviewers were simply wrong. It happens, people being clueless about things. The surname of Sheva is even (and much) less important than, for example, the surname the horror monster Jason (nominally "Jason Voorhees", and there is actually some importance to it due to his mother, but it's just Jason, including in his FA Jason Voorhees where "Jason" goes over 400 times and "Voorhees" less than 40). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:02, 10 November 2018 (UTC) Leon KennedyThere's a new full body image of Leon from RE2 remake [8] for the replacement of its infobox. FairlaneIsPangit (talk) 08:28, 11 November 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Jax Fatality.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:41, 13 November 2018 (UTC) ImageI noticed you are good with uploading image. I've been trying to upload two images for the infobxes of Shinya Kogami and Akane Tsunemori but they end up with a black background. Can you check those two to upload images with better background? Happy editing.Tintor2 (talk) 16:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Akane_(Psycho-Pass).png Fix the source for where was it from originally. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 18:11, 14 November 2018 (UTC) Hi, I'm RonBot, a script that checks new non-free file uploads. I have found that the subject image that you recently uploaded was more than 5% in excess of the Non-free content guideline size of 100,000 pixels. I have tagged the image for a standard reduction, which (for jpg/gif/png/svg files) normally happens within a day. Please check the reduced image, and make sure that the image is not excessively corrupted. Other files will be added to Category:Wikipedia non-free file size reduction requests for manual processing. 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RonBot (talk) 18:03, 16 November 2018 (UTC)Disambiguation link notification for November 18An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Chechen wolf, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ichkeria (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC) ArbCom 2018 election voter messageHello, SNAAAAKE!!. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC) Image tagging for File:Chun-Li concept arts.pngThanks for uploading File:Chun-Li concept arts.png. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator. To add this information, click on this link, then click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. For more information on using images, see the following pages: Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 17:35, 22 November 2018 (UTC) Nina WilliamsNoticed you have been editing that article so I thought this site might help you. It has a lot about the character.Tintor2 (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for November 25An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of Tekken characters, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Anna Williams (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:32, 25 November 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for December 5An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Holy Grail, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Arthur Hughes (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:51, 5 December 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Shard of spring.jpgNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 19:33, 13 December 2018 (UTC) Jingle bells
December 2018Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_December_20#Template:Infobox_Mortal_Kombat_character. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:11, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I was about to say "OK, I'm finished there. It's not that I'm even going to prevail obviously." but now the new excellent idea is to delete everything that matters in this case as "trivia" to be replaced by actual trivia. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Oh really, "a fan"? That's oh, wow, thank you! Anyway, I just had prove that a fighting style is actually of importance for a *fighting* game character. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 21:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for December 27An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Witchaven II: Blood Vengeance, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ken Kelly (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). (Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:15, 27 December 2018 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Street Fighter UDON comic.jpgNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:39, 27 December 2018 (UTC) Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussionThis message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 20:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC) AN/I noticeThere is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 17:35, 3 January 2019 (UTC) Parameter orderWhat would be a better order: The way it was, was fine. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 01:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC) January 2019Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Arthur's Quest, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that. If you want to delete the redirect, nominate it at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion. —teb728 t c 07:53, 8 January 2019 (UTC) It's the title of the completely unrelated film https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0155508/ SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 09:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Trntedii.jpgNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:38, 12 January 2019 (UTC) Please preview, consolidate, and summarizeHello, and thanks for your edits. Please remember that it makes it easier for others to collaborate with you on the encyclopedia if you preview, consolidate, and summarize your edits:
Thanks in advance for considering these suggestions. Eric talk 12:51, 14 January 2019 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Leon S. Kennedy.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:34, 26 January 2019 (UTC) TV marathonI've been temporarily incapacitated because of a pinched nerve in my left shoulder, so I spent the day resting, and watching Season 1 of The Adventures of Merlin on Netflix. It made think of the wonderful work you've been doing in that same topic area. Atsme✍🏻📧 00:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC) I was about to say cool, but there's not much cool with health problems. Get well soon! SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 13:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
January 2019Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. When editing Wikipedia, there is a field labeled "Edit summary" below the main edit box. It looks like this: Edit summary (Briefly describe your changes) I noticed your recent edit to Maleagant does not have an edit summary. Please be sure to provide a summary of every edit you make, even if you write only the briefest of summaries. The summaries are very helpful to people browsing an article's history. Edit summary content is visible in:
Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. You can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting Preferences → Editing → Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Can you really not be bothered to edit in a collaborative spirit? Eric talk 03:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:Sniper Wolf.pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:45, 2 February 2019 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:EVA (Metal Gear).pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC) Orphaned non-free image File:The Boss (Metal Gear).pngNote that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:56, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | ||
I hereby award this barnstar to editor SNAAAAKE!! for his work creating and improving many useful articles for the Wikipedia. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:54, 3 July 2019 (UTC) |
- Best of luck matey. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
You are now banned from the English Wikipedia
Per the clear consensus here, you are indefinitely banned from the English Wikipedia. If you wish to appeal this sanction you may, either by posting an unblock request here to be transcribed to WP:AN or by email to the arbitration committee. Any appeal should address all the reasons for the ban while remaining concise. You retain the ability to edit your talk page for the sole purpose of filing such an appeal. GoldenRing (talk) 11:55, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
In that case I'd like to see "all the reasons for the ban" listed, please. Might be done via email if you want. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:26, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Or I guess I'll email you because i'm not even sure on the scope of "sole purpose". SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 13:27, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- Asking this here is fine. I will not list out the reasons for the ban, for three distinct reasons: Firstly, it is not me that you need to convince that you have understood what was wrong and have changed it; you need to convince the community that has just delivered a consensus to apply a CBAN. Parts of that community will inevitably have different ideas to me about the reasons for the ban. Secondly, if you need me to list out the reasons for the ban, that is a fair indication that you are not ready to appeal. Thirdly, I am not very familiar with your contributions and what the reason for the ban might be; I assessed the consensus at AN, not the actions that led to it. I am therefore the wrong person to even try to opine on this. GoldenRing (talk) 14:04, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
OK, thank for a reply. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Can I get "all the reasons for the ban" from anyone? SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 15:11, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- Why are you asking other people to do your work for you?
- Read this.
- As you read, make a list of any criticisms of your behavior, particularly those mentioned by the editors commenting there as a reason to ban you.
- You now have a list of all the reasons for the ban.
- If this seems like too much work, that probably means that Wikipedia is not the place for you. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:54, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
A lot of this was just false, on which I already commented quite in depth (while disproving), so I need a list of "all the reasons for the ban" that are valid and/or were decided to be true and not just a list of someone's "any complaints" - to be "remaining concise". SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 10:04, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Any proper verdict/judgement includes a statement what exactly was proven and what was disproven/rejected (guilty or not) among the accusations/charges. This was true even for official witch hunts and show trials. If it was not in this case, then I'm going to appeal it just the reason that "all the reasons" were unspecified, and was not informed even when I inquired, and as such non-existing - there was no reason. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 10:27, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
- that's more than enough. Talk page access revoked. Your only remaining avenue of appeal is to email arbcom. I'd advise you to take a very different approach when doing so. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:51, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
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Category:BloodRayne games has been nominated for discussion
It will mess with Rayne the character, who's not a game. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
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Discord
Hello there! Please tell me if discord has a topic on Mortal Kombat (or Wikipedia) where you can discuss some issues. Denis Ilyushin (talk) 17:22, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
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New characters in Mortal Kombat
Hello there! Among the new characters in the game, four characters have a very significant influence on the plot. we conducted surveys on many resources and they won. They are: Kotal Kahn, Fujin, Erron Black and Kronika. Please create separate articles about them, as these characters are really very significant. PS I apologize for mistakes in the text, I am from Russia and use a translator. Denis Ilyushin (talk) 12:08, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Category:Works based on Street Fighter has been nominated for renaming
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The article Cortain has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
This object isn't covered in reliable independent secondary sources as described by the WP:GNG. A search only shows passing mentions which aren't enough for significant coverage and Notability.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jontesta (talk) 23:11, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
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Category:Video game characters in film has been nominated for deletion
Category:Video game characters in film has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ★Trekker (talk) 01:02, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Category:Video game characters in other media has been nominated for deletion
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Category:Video game characters in comics has been nominated for deletion
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Category:Video game characters in literature has been nominated for deletion
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Category:Video game characters in television has been nominated for deletion
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Category:Video games featuring protagonists of selectable gender has been nominated for deletion
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"Gameranx" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Gameranx and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 20#Gameranx until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Neocorelight (Talk) 15:12, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
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Category:Video game nobility has been nominated for renaming
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Category:Avatar characters in video games has been nominated for deletion
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Category:Anthropomorphic characters in video games has been nominated for renaming
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Category:Video games featuring protagonists of selectable gender has been nominated for deletion
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People convicted in Tokyo Trials
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Good article reassessment for Mileena
Mileena has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:07, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Good article reassessment for Ayane (Dead or Alive)
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Category:Video games featuring protagonists of selectable gender has been nominated for renaming
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File:BJ Blazkowicz.png listed for discussion
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File:Ussr0113.jpg listed for discussion
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The article Mortal Kombat (Malibu Comics) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Zero notability shown, created by blocked user.
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This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Chechen criminals has been nominated for splitting
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Discussion
- Support 1, 2, and 3, obviously. Even though he has done some excellent work on articles, he has still engaged in misconduct such as incivility and personal attacks, article ownership, not using edit summaries, and disruption of the "good articles" process for over 6 years. While I tried to give him a fair chance, the fact must remain, Wikipedia is a collaborative project and civility is a cornerstone in this project. Niemti has a poor track record when it comes to collaborating with anyone that he disagrees with (including myself) and often wastes the community's time. Given his history, HanzoHattori/Niemti has unfortunately and very obviously failed the community for the last time. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Weak oppose #1 and #3 for now, neutral on #2. I agree that Niemti's interactions can be problematic, but I think he deserves a chance to see the results of the RfC and reconsider some of that behavior before a ban. -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:19, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support - As I said in the RFC, he is either unwilling or unable to change, and his behavior is unacceptable, so I see no other choice. Sergecross73 msg me 12:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- A very difficult decision indeed. On the one hand, I have seen Niemti behave in a superfluously aggressive manner towards those who disagree with his perspectives
, and the passive harassment of Sjones23 is out of bounds. Civility is not negotiable — it is a cornerstone of this project. In an ideal scenario, a disagreement between two or more editors will lead to a compromise that works for the betterment of the encyclopedia as a whole. Equally important is editor retention, being able to maintain a collegial atmosphere within our community. If Wikipedia fosters a toxic environment, it will drive away many valuable contributors. Yet, Niemti's content contributions are generally of immense value. His interests are broad (and admittedly very similar to my own), and wherever he gets the chance to work on an article by himself, good things tend to come from it. I was the most vocal supporter of unbanning him last year, and I'm still not thoroughly convinced that he ought to be banned once more. Nevertheless, he needs to change his attitude. If that cannot happen, then he will have forfeited his final chance and be forced to depart. Kurtis (talk) 13:14, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was not fully aware of the situation between Niemti and Sjones23 when I made the above comment. I think a mutual interaction ban would probably be best for all involved. Kurtis (talk) 06:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I understand that a mutual interaction ban would work, but I have doubts about it since I don't want to talk about that situation. I only got swept up in the controversy back in August against my better judgment and discussions regarding this we're taking place far before his block a week or two ago. Since there are concerns about changing the situation towards me, I am going to back out of this discussion but I am still going to watch it. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:05, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Neutral on the idea of sitebanning him; closer, please don't count me when you're deciding to close as ban or don't-ban. However, I'm opposed to the mechanics of this proposal. (1) It's not good to community-ban someone indefinitely from appealing a community ban to the community. Arbcom is already too powerful, and giving them the right to officiate in this specific situation when the community will be able to decide to unban or keep-banned is a bad idea, both because they don't need extra things, and because it's wrong to say that the ban may not be appealed to the community. (2) If we enact your proposal, we'll make it harder for him to appeal his siteban than his topic bans. Why? (3) You're using both "banned" and "prohibited" when you appear to mean the same thing; please change one to the other, or please explain why "banned" and "prohibited" aren't the same. (4) Finally, a basic question — why topic-ban someone and siteban him too? Do one or the other, or do neither, but not both. Nyttend (talk) 15:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's a menu of options, not a single coherent proposal. NE Ent 16:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support on #1, strongly on #2. The third one would be moot if the first one passes, but would be second choice. Clearly he doesn't care that he's disruptive to others and shows zero desire to change. Wizardman 15:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Undecidedon all three points, for the same reason -- there are evident behaviour issues, but the actual content work is definitely non-negligible and if that work could be continued, the encyclopedia ultimately wins. However that doesn't excuse the actions outside of content work and there is also a real possibility or driving off other good editors. I would, without hesitation, Support a fourth, intermediary option of a mutual interaction ban with User:Sjones23 but that doesn't resolve the rest... If anything, option #2 seems reasonable and potentially helpful but I worry that if he cannot improve an article all the way through to GA, including the nomination process, he might not be motivated to work on the articles themselves... I will keep reading the points and remain open to changing my mind. Note I am in no way defending his attitude or behaviour and I believe it is a very important problem; however he's done good article work and if we could find a solution that would still allow the encyclopedia to be improved by his work, that'd be ideal. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- After seeing the discussions, I am revising my position -- Oppose option 1 because I do not believe the community has been fair and neutral towards Niemti and I believe that some amount of baiting happened. I am however not opposed to having someone review whether the behaviour goes against the conditions of his previous unban. Neutral option 2 because the problems are evident, but not on every review which begs the question of whether the issue really is with Niemti... Oppose option 3 because the quantity and quality of his work is impressive and there are no problems with his editing; merely with his behaviour. Strong Support Interaction Ban between Sjones23 and Niemti; both have agree anyhow. I also believe Sjones23 needs to be reprimanded for his apparent hounding, or at the very least for his inability to disengage despite stating numerous times he was disengaging. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 16:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- 1a. Support site ban per prior AN discussion. here
- 1b. Oppose appeal to ArbCom provision -- appeal should be to community in six months
- 2 & 3. Neutral NE Ent 16:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support #2. — ΛΧΣ21 16:55, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Before this gets enacted, I'd like a moment to gather a few diffs and compose a comment please. — Ched : ? 17:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I find myself a bit puzzled by the idea that the community would ban him and he could only appeal to arbcom. I'd like some clarification on the logic behind that choice. I would support the idea that WP:BASC act as a gatekeeper, i.e. he must convince them to open the discussion, but as written I don't really get it. However, I believe we made a mistake in lifting this ban in the first place. If we reward someone for socking we can hardly be surprised when what they learn from that is that the rules do not apply to them and they can act however they like without consequence. So, support any and all of the above but would like the wording on the ban idea tweaked slightly. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I see a lot of people are discussing the appeal to arbcom part. So, I've been more passive with this whole thing lately, but I don't think that was something people especially felt strongly about. I think the main idea was the "6 month ban with opportunity to be appealed", I don't believe there was much emphasis meant to be placed on who he appeals to. I could be mistaken though. Sergecross73 msg me 17:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I endorse this outcome. The idea of appeal to BASC is a form of independent review, and it is a way of forestalling the endless debates between supporters and others that we have seen in the past. Banned users seem not to have a big problem using this process, there are not enough of them to produce any challenge of scale. Guy (Help!) 17:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comments: So, we seem to have taken a 48 hour block, 7 months later pounded a two week (escalated) block on top of that, kept a running list of grievances (which usually get deleted as attack pages in user space) by holding open a Five month long RfC/U (for those unfamiliar with that particular process, it usually doesn't go much beyond ONE month), had a total of Three comments from the accused on his own talk since the block (which basically amount to "meh - I'm not mad, I can use the break anyway".), and a closing of an RfC/U which has been allowed to run longer than most Arbcom cases with a "BAN HIM" proposal. On top of that, somehow we can make this an WP:AE ban? (I must have missed that little memo.) I'd imagine this could even be forced through process before Niemti gets back if we try real hard. I mean after all, his first unclosed ban discussion lasted a total of what? 12 hours? 8 or 9 people commenting - but don't let facts distract anyone from removing an editor that managed to get what? 40 articles to GA?, at least one FA (System Shock 2) - in less than a year? With +85% of his over 40k edits to article space? So let's have a recap shall we? Even though Sjones23, I'm sorry .. "Lord" Sjones23 .. promised multiple times to avoid this editor (personally I consider them to be very unfulfilled promises) - they continue to be a driving force for this ban. (a few interesting reads from just Aug. of last year: link, apology and question, another "question", and this one is nothing short of a real gem - closing the very thread where Nimeti raised the harassment issues - that's a keeper if I ever saw one). Now, going back to the RfC/U for a moment: What do we have as egregious incivility? And I'll just use the direct quotes from the initial links since that seems to be the core of our editor's problems: "I guess you hate chapters in most books", "...now go and renominate", "I told you to stop fucking up my articles, didn't I?" (I'll fully admit that there's some ownership issues with a comment like that), "You've got to be kidding me,", "Now, if you have something to CONTRIBUTE to the article..." and of course: SHOUTING, (zOMG HE USED THE CAPS LOCK KEY). That is what we're banning people for now?
- Now I haven't had the time or the desire to review any of allllll those other things this gawd-awful editor has done which required an entire second page of "additional evidence that Lord Sjones23 felt compelled to create, but perhaps others will. The fact is this: Niemti was never given a second chance. He was hounded, baited, and trolled to the point of exhaustion. I don't question that he could improve in the WP:OWNership areas, and perhaps he does need to brush up on WP:BITE (although Lord Sjones23 is hardly a newcomer). While WP:IBAN is about the only thing I could conceivably consider here, typically that doesn't always work as well in practice as it does in print. Either way, this appears to be another one of those forgone conclusions in which we banish an editor. Do people really, honestly, wonder why we have an editor retention problem on this project? Oh well - thanks for holding off on the close so I could formulate my comments. You folks enjoy yourselves. — Ched : ? 18:07, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- You do realize he had like 12 blocks under his other account, right? And all of them related the same same sort of problems being addressed at this more recent RFC... Sergecross73 msg me 19:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree with Ched about the extensive wikihounding by Sjones23. There was also some degree of collaboration between a few people to get Niemti banned.My very best wishes (talk) 19:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Bans have been proposed at the wrong venues a couple times now by different editors. They were good faith mistakes though, not an effort to canvass, if that's what you're getting at. Sergecross73 msg me 19:50, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I am talking about a situation when someone suddenly appears after a month of inactivity, specifically to suggest to sanction Niemti [12], and then disappears again. Sjones23 campaigned for several months to ban Niemti. But whatever. People with short temper like Niemti are easy targets. My very best wishes (talk) 20:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oh ok, gotcha. Yeah, I cross paths at WP:VG with Bridies, but I'm not especially familiar with that editor or his/her editing habits/patterns, so I really can't attest to that... Sergecross73 msg me 20:20, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Bridies has clearly stated in this discussion, "I'm no longer contributing and am resolved not do so again. Though likewise, Niemti was only partially responsible, in addition to the incredibly alienating get-over-it comments and the gloating in the aftermath from other editors, in addition to the User:Jagged_85 episode (I've not so much as seen it mentioned on the WP:VG talk page that thousands of our VG history articles have been compromised by misinformation) and the ever-present anonymous incompetency and vandalism... Which just added up to the sensation that editing here is too much like pissing in the wind these days. I also had the epiphany that VG content editors almost universally supported banning Niemti; as someone who almost exclusively edited old VG articles, I don't see why see why I should be burdened by anyone else's dogma. What I'd really love to see is a site devoted to, say, pre-2000 video games (and thus potentially complete-able), with similar goals as Wikipedia (NPOV, free-access encyclopaedia), and which could compete in terms of search engine optimisation, but with editorial standards, real name and civility requirements, and more closed authorship." I am not interested in discussing the Wikihounding issues anymore. This has nothing to do with the present situation. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Could you please answer a question: why did this new wave of activity about Niemti (as follows from this edit history) has started on March 22 while he was blocked? My very best wishes (talk) 03:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- You are either mistaken or cherry picking. Discussions regarding this we're taking place far before his block a week or two back. Sergecross73 msg me 04:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I just want to note that System Shock 2 was promoted to featured article by me, not Niemti. — ΛΧΣ21 05:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- You are either mistaken or cherry picking. Discussions regarding this we're taking place far before his block a week or two back. Sergecross73 msg me 04:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Could you please answer a question: why did this new wave of activity about Niemti (as follows from this edit history) has started on March 22 while he was blocked? My very best wishes (talk) 03:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Bridies has clearly stated in this discussion, "I'm no longer contributing and am resolved not do so again. Though likewise, Niemti was only partially responsible, in addition to the incredibly alienating get-over-it comments and the gloating in the aftermath from other editors, in addition to the User:Jagged_85 episode (I've not so much as seen it mentioned on the WP:VG talk page that thousands of our VG history articles have been compromised by misinformation) and the ever-present anonymous incompetency and vandalism... Which just added up to the sensation that editing here is too much like pissing in the wind these days. I also had the epiphany that VG content editors almost universally supported banning Niemti; as someone who almost exclusively edited old VG articles, I don't see why see why I should be burdened by anyone else's dogma. What I'd really love to see is a site devoted to, say, pre-2000 video games (and thus potentially complete-able), with similar goals as Wikipedia (NPOV, free-access encyclopaedia), and which could compete in terms of search engine optimisation, but with editorial standards, real name and civility requirements, and more closed authorship." I am not interested in discussing the Wikihounding issues anymore. This has nothing to do with the present situation. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oh ok, gotcha. Yeah, I cross paths at WP:VG with Bridies, but I'm not especially familiar with that editor or his/her editing habits/patterns, so I really can't attest to that... Sergecross73 msg me 20:20, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I am talking about a situation when someone suddenly appears after a month of inactivity, specifically to suggest to sanction Niemti [12], and then disappears again. Sjones23 campaigned for several months to ban Niemti. But whatever. People with short temper like Niemti are easy targets. My very best wishes (talk) 20:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not opining on any of the proposals. I just wanted to help close a 4-month old RFC/U that wasn't going anywhere. I'll take the sole blame for the list of possible sanctions being so inartfully drafted as to resist even Sandstein's brave effort to clean up the language. The reason I wrote "appeal to ArbCom" was simply to preclude an individual admin from lifting the ban if enacted, which appears to be what happened last time around. The suggestion above that WP:BASC act as a gatekeeper before the community considers an un-ban sounds like a better option. I was unfamiliar with that committee. I am happy to accept that suggestion as a friendly amendment. Fladrif (talk) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- First of all, I'm so very sorry about what is going on the project here. At the time when Niemti was unbanned, I provided very inconclusive evidence on my part, and I tried to desperately solve the problem in August, but ended up getting nowhere fast to be honest and I've obviously moved on from the "wikihounding" issue and those things in August are water under the bridge and I wish to put these issues by Ched to rest. I know better to wikihound, bait or troll anyone in the first place. I have been trying to ignore him due to his attitude. And let it be known that being a producer of good content is never an excuse for incivil behavior and I tried to desperately avoid him but I was concerned about his behavior. Niemti has some serious communication errors here, but I made a mistake in promising to avoid the editor (that promise was not permanent), and I am aware about what problems he has here. Let me decide whether I should avoid Niemti or not. Unfortunately, Niemti was topic banned from a biographical article for this exact same behavior. The additional evidence subpage was created at the suggestion of Izno and we have had numerous discussions on his behavior at WT:VG. We need more uninvolved editors to take a look at the situation. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I will comment on one thing, and one thing only. I most definitely Support an interaction ban as proposed by User:Salvidrim and User:Ched above, with teeth in it, between User:Niemti and User:Sjones23. The comment above says to me that Sjones23 is either clueless or in complete denial about his own continual and ongoing WP:Wikihounding, including a lovely display of gravedancing on the occasion of the current block being imposed. Ched's assessment of that is right on the number. Fladrif (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, Fladrif. I can understand that Ched is concerned here and I am so sorry about this once again. If I did anything wrong or clueless or did something to upset you, then I can say one thing: I am sorry and can express deep regret for what I have done back in August. That promise to avoid the user was because I was not sure much can be done about his behavior. But based on his behavior, he was basically uncooperative. I know that I was trying to avoid Niemti but in the end, I let my judgment get the best of me since I do know better than to wikihound or harass this user. I think a possible interaction ban would simply help out very much for me and increase my moral support. If you are concerned about anything my behaviour, bring it up on WP:ANI or discuss it on my talk page. This discussion should not be here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:41, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest you familiarize yourself with WP:PETARD Fladrif (talk) 18:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed, I understand where you, Salvidrim and Ched come from with an interaction ban on Niemti and myself. Unfortunately, even though I would support Salvidrim's proposal of an interaction ban without hesitation at a later time and Sergecross73 recommended that I should avoid Niemti because he was causing me a lot of stress, I have doubts about the interaction ban and those comments do not really alleviate any concerns on Niemti's behavior though as most of it took place back before the block. As what Betty Logan (talk · contribs) pointed out to me, the problem with "promising to "avoid" him is that might mean you won't be able to edit the articles you want to edit if there is a large overlap between your editing areas." Having been a user for over 6 years, I understand all of the policies and guidelines, assume good faith and am also a competent editor while maintaining a nice and friendly attitude, and try not to bite any newcomers nor do I intend to harass other users. People dictating what other should be doing by editing articles or what they should be doing with their time is not acceptable behavior. And actually, I have made very valuable contributions in fact. Just to let everyone understand, Niemti's condescending and incoherent attitude does not gain any support for others and that has unfortunately made me lose my temper over it after I got swept up in the controversy against my better judgment back in August, but I got over that quickly. And also, accusing someone of lying would be considered a personal attack and no one can know what people have in their minds, nor can they make conclusions about strangers or other users. It's only stalking if the edits are not done in good faith, but mine are always in good faith and trying to improve upon other's edits, including Niemti's. By the way, Niemti is a good editor when it comes to editing articles but his talk page discussions can be very poisonous to the atmosphere and he is persistently uncooperative. Only if Niemti changes his hostile attitude would I reconcile with him. As what Salvidrim pointed out, demoralizing good editors harms the collaborative atmosphere of Wikipedia. To be honest, I have tried my best to avoid contact with Niemti whenever possible. As what Sergecross73 pointed out to me, I pursued this too aggressively, so if I cause any trouble, I apologize for what I might have done and I never intend to go over my head, but I still believe that the wikihounding case against me was not substantiated, even though I am a longtime and good-natured contributor who has contributed extensively to several film articles and video game articles (specifically the Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series). Unfortunately, the negative effect Niemti has on Wikipedia outweighs the positives of his contributions, and I don't want to get in over my head when no one is here to defend me. No gravedancing was intended on my part. The additional evidence subpage is not an attack page at all. In any case, I am not at all clueless, nor am I interested in discussing the Wikihounding issues anymore as I want to put these past issues behind us and focus on the current issue here. This is a discussion about proposing sanctions on Niemti, who has had like at least 12 blocks under his different account, HanzoHattori (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), so Niemti has been a user for over 6 years now. For more information, see also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/HanzoHattori and this discussion regarding his un-banning. Also, per Sergecross73's recommendation, I have decided not to participate for now, unless directly addressed, so that the focus of the sanctions would not be misdirected on to myself. To everyone here, please do not go off-topic as this discussion is getting us nowhere fast, and please let this ban discussion go on for a while before deciding on a consensus. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:06, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest you familiarize yourself with WP:PETARD Fladrif (talk) 18:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, Fladrif. I can understand that Ched is concerned here and I am so sorry about this once again. If I did anything wrong or clueless or did something to upset you, then I can say one thing: I am sorry and can express deep regret for what I have done back in August. That promise to avoid the user was because I was not sure much can be done about his behavior. But based on his behavior, he was basically uncooperative. I know that I was trying to avoid Niemti but in the end, I let my judgment get the best of me since I do know better than to wikihound or harass this user. I think a possible interaction ban would simply help out very much for me and increase my moral support. If you are concerned about anything my behaviour, bring it up on WP:ANI or discuss it on my talk page. This discussion should not be here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:41, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I will comment on one thing, and one thing only. I most definitely Support an interaction ban as proposed by User:Salvidrim and User:Ched above, with teeth in it, between User:Niemti and User:Sjones23. The comment above says to me that Sjones23 is either clueless or in complete denial about his own continual and ongoing WP:Wikihounding, including a lovely display of gravedancing on the occasion of the current block being imposed. Ched's assessment of that is right on the number. Fladrif (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose I have had zero interaction with Niemti. (by coincidence I just picked up and article for GA review and noticed that it was written by them (looks like an immense amount of work on a topic that nobody else likely would have done, and could use a bit more work before GA) but they have been blocked and I've had no discussions.) I see nothing in the diffs or evidence at the RFC/U supporting such an extreme measure, and I am becoming more and more distressed by vague lynchings at ani and an, and so am opposing this from a fair and due process standpoint. North8000 (talk) 18:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comment - Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive238#User:HanzoHattori, now editing as Niemti: discussion regarding un-banning may be relevant.
- As for my opinion on the actual topics, I would personally oppose #1 or #3 based on my experience and the information collected for the RFC. #2 I would support (and possibly a ban from FA space as well; I foresee the same issues occurring there, but I'm not strongly attached). I might also suggest a 1RR restriction on Niemti, as well as possibly a suggestion of a ban from any talk space. Just some ideas. He's a good article writer, but his talk-space input can be poisonous to the collegial atmosphere. No comment on an interaction ban. --Izno (talk) 19:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose for the following reasons. First, I agree with comment by Ched (see above). I think this is classic hikihounding by Sjones23. He refused to talk with Niemti [13], blindly reverted his edits without talking [14],[15], complained about him numerous times on administrative noticeboards and to several individual administrators, promised not to do it again (links by Ched), but continued the same. I noticed this problem some time ago and provided some advice to Sjones23, but he apparently refused to follow. Secondly, after looking at the edit history of this RfC, I can see a few last comments in the middle of February and a couple in the end of February. On March 18, Niemty was blocked for two weeks; I assume he was blocked properly for some kind of wrongdoing. Starting from March 22 (same edit history), almost a month later and while Niemti was blocked, a wave of new activity was started in the RfC by edit of Sjones23. Why? Niemti was blocked and obviously did nothing during this time. It is customary to allow a blocked editor to return back and show that he can do better after the block. Going after someone when he is serving his block and did nothing new is not a good idea.My very best wishes (talk) 19:27, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 1 & 2; support 3 if 1 fails. I've only interacted with Niemti at Anita Sarkeesian, where his unacceptable behavior got him permanently banned, but the consensus at the RFC/U is that the problems he displayed there are much more pervasive. That's borne out with a simple look at his contributions. In terms of GAs, I honestly couldn't believe that things like Ayane (Dead or Alive), Ibuki (Street Fighter), or Ada Wong were GAs. His flooding the GA queue and refusal to do anything but the bare minimum of work has had a negative effect on the GA process. This is besides his rudeness and behavioral problems. At this point the negative effect he has on Wikipedia far outweighs the positives of his contributions, and the problem isn't going away on its own.--Cúchullain t/c 19:34, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comment There is a problem, and it has been an ongoing problem, even if we discount all the problems before his last ban was lifted. I've sat on the sidelines since opposing his unblock (on technical grounds, I supported the idea of giving him a second chance) and have noted several ongoing issues that he has handled in a less than stellar manner. That he only participated a few times in a five month RFC/U isn't a testament to his innocence, but more of a failure to acknowledge the consequences of his actions. I would have to think a while before I offered a firm opinion on what action should be taken, however, doing nothing isn't really an option. At the end of the day, he could have done a great deal more than he has to be a productive member of the community. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 2, Oppose 1&3. It's obvious that he isn't the most likable guy, but that's not a good reason to site ban him. Unfortunately, ban discussions like this tend to attract people with personal grudges--that's an obvious weakness of our system. As much as some people love to impose bans, there's really no good reason to do so in this case. His mass GA nominations seem to have been an issue, so let's stop that. We shouldn't use that as an excuse to jump to the "nuclear option" though. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 1, and if that is not accepted then support 2 & 3 as a very poor second best. This is a very disruptive and uncooperative editor, with a history of numerous blocks since 2006: [16], [17]. He has had "second chances" and shown no sign of becoming more cooperative. He has used numerous sockpuppet accounts: see Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of HanzoHattori and Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of HanzoHattori, which, which are not a complete list, as Niemti, for example, is not included. His disruptive behaviour has bee discussed numerous times on administrators' noticeboards: [18], [19], twice that I know of at RfC: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Niemti, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/HanzoHattori. I am never a great fan of the view that arrogant uncooperative and disruptive editors should not be blocked if they also do a significant amount of editing that is considered good, and for this editor the case for that is even weaker than it sometimes is. The sheer amount of time and effort that could have been employed usefully but has instead been wasted on this editor is considerable: not only in the discussions I have mentioned, but on talk pages, in undoing his damage, etc etc. The point was long ago reached when it was clear that the amount of disruption and waste of effort that this editor was causing outweighed any benefit. He has made it abundantly clear many times that he has contempt for Wikipedia's processes and policies, has responded to discussions about his behaviour flippantly and contemptuously: [20], [21], has made it clear that he has no intention of collaborating, no intention of dropping his ownership stance, etc etc. All this has been going on since 2006, and, during that time, he has shown no sign whatever of changing his attitude. He was permanently banned, [22], but the Niemti sockpuppet account was controversially unblocked by an administrator following a discussion which could not by any reasonable stretch of the imagination be considered to provide a consensus for lifting the ban. In short, we have an editor who, over a period of over six years, has been disruptive, deliberately uncooperative, uncivil, etc etc, and Wikipedia would be better off without him. The only thing I am in any doubt about concerning the ban proposal is why we should invite him to apply to arbcom for an unban in six months: if in six years he has shown no sign of wishing to become a collaborative contributor, why should he be likely to change in six more months? JamesBWatson (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I understand where you're coming from, and your assessment, as well as Dennis Brown's, Sergecross's and Salvidrim's appear to be the most accurate to me. Even if he applies to Arbcom to unban him for six months, HanzoHattori/Niemti unfortunately shows no sign of wishing to become a collaborative contributor. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 2, mainly because that is the area I am most familiar with. Neimti has a poor track record of collaborating with anyone that he disagrees with and in the course of a review you are going to get editors asking questions regarding your content. I have a real fear that a newish reviewer is going to pick up one of his articles and have such a bad experience that they will not return, something we can seldom afford with the shortage of reviewers we currently have. I am less familiar with the other proposals, but looking at the circumstances in which he was unblocked and the behaviour thereafter I think we would be better off just reinstating the original ban. AIRcorn (talk) 02:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose all Seems whenever I find people complaining about Niemti the facts don't justify the allegations. The GA reviews are pretty poor. One of the instances I saw, that is noted in the "additional evidence" section linked above, involved the reviewing editor quickfailing based on a cherry-picking of sources that represented at most 10% of the references and even that was supporting very little of the actual material in the article. Vast majority of the sourcing for substantive material was high quality secondary sourcing (UGO, IGN, and other reputable gaming news outlets) with the next largest chunk being primary sourcing to official materials. Not a legitimate quickfail by far. Some of the objections to sourcing seemed to be more the result of a gag reflex than a product of serious review, the claim that "YouTube is not a reliable source" is not credible when the video is an interview with an identifiable person on the official channel of a press organization. When this is a review and article that is supposedly a stellar example of Niemti's problems with the GA process, I am left convinced that the ones who we should be concerned about are those who want to ban a prolific content creator for these kinds of trivialities.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 05:23, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 1 (with appeal to BASC or community), followed by 2 and 3 upon return. Niemti's responses to this thread have pushed me over the line to supporting a ban - there appears to be a complete unwillingness to see or believe that he has issues with editing in a civil and collegial manner. It doesn't matter if you believe you're "right" if you nevertheless can't edit without blowing your top spectacularly and endlessly. It's sad when someone who produces good work otherwise can't function within our environment, and I never want to see people like that be "eternal" blocks/bans, but until they're at least attempting to work on the problem behavior we can't allow them to run roughshod over everyone else. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:18, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- In fact, he can function very well in wikipedia environment as long as he edits alone or with other contributors who are willing to compromise, especially on minor issues (that is what I did). However, he has problems in discussions with multiple editors who accuse him of something (like here on ANI) or want him banned, or strongly disagree on minor issues and make a big deal of their disagreements (such as linking or not linking to something). And he is not alone; there are other contributors with the same problem, perhaps including myself. Having that in mind, he obviously made a mistake by making his statement on ANI and participating in this discussion, instead of sitting out quietly. My very best wishes (talk) 18:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Strongly Support 1, 2, and Support 3 if the first two are opposed. The guy simply refuses to collaborate with anyone, using his tens of thousands of page edits to justify his "I'm holier than thou" personality. For someone who is constantly pushing Wikipedia policy articles into people's faces when they don't agree with him (in the Wasteland 2 discussion I was involved in, he did nothing but rudely throw WP:OR links everywhere without considering any differing viewpoints), he blatantly dismisses the core policy WP:CIVIL. He will either dismiss others' asking him to stop being rude, or he will use the other editors' "stupidity" or "stalking" as justification for being rude. Whether or not the interaction between Niemti and Sjones23 can be seen by some as "provoking" Niemti to behave poorly, it is still not an excuse to continue being rude, and Niemti's general behavioral issues have extended far beyond that and with numerous other people, as shown by the original RfC. His reaction to the recent 2 week ban "Oh well, I needed a break" shows that even warnings and temporary bans will not persuade him to change. I and many others have said this before: good article work is not an excuse for rude, uncivil behavior. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 16:53, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 2 and 3 - My view is the disruption caused by the number of editors who now refuse to work with Niemti is a fairly big issue. Regardless of his good contributions he's having the effect of pushing away other editors and this outweighs his positive contribs. Cabe6403 (Talk•Sign) 20:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support 1, 2, and 3 - note that I am the admin that gave him his current/most recent block. I really feel that Niemti is on some level incapable of working with other editors in a civil manner. Pretty much every conversation of any length he is involved in gets turned into a fight, resulting in his previous ban and blocks. It took him only three days after my warning to get blocked for 2 weeks, and I don't think it will take much longer for the next one if nothing results from here. He's already blown up at someone after misreading their comment (redacted in the above section)- this may be an extenuating circumstance, but how hard is it to not freak out at people in the discussion about banning you for freaking out at people? If Niemti was capable of playing nice with other editors, he would have learned to do so 2 weeks ago or the previous time he was blocked or when he was banned or the other times he was blocked. He won't learn, he wastes more time and effort that he puts in to the project, he needs to go. --PresN 22:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Note: The comment that Niemti went back and redacted a few hours later in the "statement by Niemti" section about is reproduced here- I thought it was relevant.
- ThomasO1989, "in the Wasteland 2 discussion I was involved in, he did nothing but rudely throw WP:OR links everywhere"
- WHAT
- WHATTT
- THIS, this is an incredibly blatant shameless lie, becuause it was actually a literally COMPLETELY OPPOSITE situation - in reality, I was refusing to agree to use WP:OR as Wikipedia defines it and instead fought for using what reliable sources say (in this case: the developers themselves and media reports, which reported in only one way), before I eventually just stopped caring - AND it was ThomasO1989 who was pushing the OR there! Anyone can check it and see! The truth about my real position there, which was actually just absolutely clearly AGAINST any kind of OR, that is now so outrageously being attempted to be totally falsfied, can be probably best seen with this edt [23] - yes this was regarding precisely this very dispute, there were few more statements by me in the same thread, all squarely against any form of OR, before I simply lost all interest and just abandoned this discussion (because I've realized it's not even important and I'm really wasting time for nothing) and let the other users involved agree whatever they would.
- Support 1, 2, and 3 - Yet another editor that had too many "last chances" and felt invulnerable as a result. The long term abusive behavior has to stop somewhere. Let's call it right here, right now, since the evidence is clear. Thanks to those who have done the heavy lifting regarding this editor and have stayed on target. Hopefully your efforts will be rewarded with a full ban, and the encyclopedia will be a better place. Jusdafax 00:45, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose, per Ched. This seems to be a case study in uneven enforcement of civility, in which a group of editors has targeted an editor (not an angel) over half a year. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Counter proposal
How about an interaction ban, as above (mutual, not unilateral of course) and "civility parole"? Guy (Help!) 12:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose (this will be my final decision on the interaction ban, but mostly remaining neutral on it, as well as the civility parole) per Fluffernutter and Beeblebrox. Though I partially agree on a proposal not to interacting with this user with regret, I apologize if I was wikistalking (whether intentionally or unintentionally) or uncivil towards any user (including Niemti) in any way (it was never my intention to do so, as I have many positive contributions) and that some of the comments towards me were sometimes off-based. If Niemti does not change his behavior to fit what is expected of Wikipedia, I would rather ignore him. At this point, I really don't care about whether I would support or oppose the interaction ban anymore nor do I care about the wikistalking issues, my only concern was on Niemti's incivility and an inability to work well with others (myself included). I'm sure I did not mean to harass anyone, or break any policy in doing so. I sometimes argue with users over different interpretations of policies and guidelines. Just to clarify, it's only stalking if the edit is not done in good faith. I have been mostly civil, but I feel that I do not want sanctions placed on me at this time. Also, my apparent inability to disengage from the user was an error on my part if I had done so and I did not really mean to disengage from him permanently. I tried to be objective in those previous ANI discussions, but his temper got the better of me and I deny nothing. The truth is, I have not made any promises at all and I did not mean to say disengage permanently. Promises can be broken after all. Niemti will have to apologize to me as well if he changes his behavior. The civility parole is pointless obviously as it doesn't work for me. However, I have doubts that IBANs will throw issues under the carpet, if an editor raises a conduct issue about another, it should be resolved rather thrown under the carpet. It will just prevent one editor from scrutinizing another or following up at DR regardless of the fact he's giving a narrow scrutiny (with explanation of it). To quote ThomasO1989, "Niemti simply refuses to collaborate with anyone, using his tens of thousands of page edits to justify his "I'm holier than thou" personality. Whether or not the interaction between Niemti and Sjones23 [that's me] can be seen by some as "provoking" Niemti to behave poorly, it is still not an excuse to continue being rude." Regardless of Niemti's positive contributions to the project, he tries to drive others away from the project and this outweighs his positive contributions and my point is that Niemti is actually wasting of the community's time with his arguments. However, as what ThomasO1989 pointed out to me, regurgitating what others say will probably not help my case at all and right now, an interaction ban might be pointless in my opinion. Per Beeblebrox, the above proposal to accommodate a user who is unwilling to behave in a civilized manner will seriously cause too much drama for everyone. With that said, I have made an official decision: I will have absolutely no choice but to entirely bail out of this increasingly obtuse discussion for good unless directly addressed so that the focus would not be misdirected at me and I will let other editors to pursue this thread and the above ban discussion. I feel physically sick. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, what is a civility parole? Sandstein 15:30, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was wondering about that too. If it's pretty much like what it sounds like, it sounds like it would either be pointless, or he's already there. The reason he was given his current 2 week block was because he was warned by an Admin that no more incivility would be tolerated, and mere days later he found himself blocked... Sergecross73 msg me 15:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's pretty much like it sounds. For x amount of time, he would not be allowed to make any incivil remarks. Violating that would be an instant block (potentially indef). As you say, it seems kinda pointless right now. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:17, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- A civility parole is where we tell an editor they have to follow the "civility" pillar that everyone is supposed to follow but, since we never actually come to consensus on what is or isn't "civil," it's not very useful (as noted by sandwich et. al. below). NE Ent 21:03, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was wondering about that too. If it's pretty much like what it sounds like, it sounds like it would either be pointless, or he's already there. The reason he was given his current 2 week block was because he was warned by an Admin that no more incivility would be tolerated, and mere days later he found himself blocked... Sergecross73 msg me 15:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Both editors have now agreed to interaction ban. Although it is virtually impossible to keep up with Sjones' torrent of posts and revisions on this page, he has unequivocally posted several times that he would support an interaction ban[24][25][26][27][28], and Niemti's statement on his talk page states that he would support an interaction ban. Given this agreement from the affected parties, (and Sjones' apparent inability to disengage, notwithstanding repeated promises to do so) the interaction ban should be immediately endorsed as a community sanction on both editors, with escalating blocks as a sanction if violated by either party. Fladrif (talk) 15:33, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose. Civility paroles, we have learned through long, painful experience as a community, simply don't work. Everyone has a different idea of what civil and uncivil, and of where the line between them lies, and possible parole violations just end up being debated again on ANI and ending in the same result or lack thereof as if no parole had been in place to begin with. A single or pair of "civility mentor(s)", who had the authority to block and have it stick if he was uncivil, might work if the blocks are designed to be sticky enough. A general "civility parole" free-for-all won't. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose Pretty much per fluff's comment above. This type of bending over backward to accommodate a user who is obviously completely uninterested in ever behaving in a civilized manner just prolongs the drama with little to no benefit. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:33, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comment He's pretty much on "civility parole" right now, seeing as I blocked him for 2 weeks at the first incident after my warning, and will block him again for longer for the next one (ignoring discussions related to this AN section). I don't see that making it more "official" changes anything. --PresN 22:06, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose - In my view, we need to lance the boil, not put a band-aid on it. Jusdafax 00:48, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- No offence Guy, but every time I hear the word civility parole, I let out an emphatically sullen groan. History has shown, as Fluffernutter says above, that such measures are more drama than they're worth. Kurtis (talk) 11:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
personal attack
All I did was to add a secular tertiary source to the article, and in response I get a pile of attacks. --Kazemita1 (talk) 14:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- As "personal attacks" go, that was exceptionally mild. I'm not saying reverting you was right or that there was anything wrong with your edit, but I really don't see a personal attack here.Jeppiz (talk) 14:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- When you're telling someone else that he's confused (in a hostile manner) and that he's only trying to defend a wrong, you're breaking the bounds of civility. Not so bad that it's by itself sanctionable, but it's still not appropriate. Nyttend (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Even hostile might be a bit much. I have no idea who's right or wrong with the content, but accusing someone of being misguided or misquoting them is hardly a personal attack... It could be wrong, but not an attack. Sergecross73 msg me 15:17, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- When you're telling someone else that he's confused (in a hostile manner) and that he's only trying to defend a wrong, you're breaking the bounds of civility. Not so bad that it's by itself sanctionable, but it's still not appropriate. Nyttend (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
How can we deal with 78.160.xxx.xx? Hundreds of disruptive edits per week
A long list of Wikipedia articles are currently under attack by an extremely persistent Turkish nationalist who edit wars, vandalizes and pushes an almost absurd POV. For just a fraction of the articles targeted, see this list [29] that only covers article vandalised today. What this user does is to try to make the whole world Turkish. Virtually any person that ever lived in an area covering almost all of Eurasia can be claimed as Turkish by this user. It is of course utter nonsense, and we are a small army of users reverting this POV-warrior, but the fact that they constantly change IP makes it well nigh impossible to deal with them. As far as I can tell, there are two possible solutions:
- 1. We semi-protect all articles they target. That is what we have been doing this far, a long list of articles was semi-protected a few days ago, and I hope an admin can deal with this list [30] very soon. There are two problems to this approch: we are constantly one step behind, and over time we will end up with hundreds of semi-protected articles just because of any exceptionally disruptive user.
- 2. We block the range 78.160.xxx.xx. I was first against that approach, but I'm starting to think it's the best. Yes, it's a large range, but there is no reason users within that range could not register accounts and edit. Within this range are at least 20-30 IPs the user has been using, and I would estimate at least 200-300 disuptions only in the last week. It's never the same IP, none of the IPs involved in the attacks a few days ago are involved now.
This is a rather troublesome situation, and it has already taken up quite a lot of time for a large number of responsible editors (including User:Al Ameer son, User:Binksternet, User:Kansas Bear, User:Ahmetyal, User:Faizan Al-Badri, User:Zheek, User:Adam Bishop and myself) who all revert the POV-warrior Something needs to be done about this extreme user.Jeppiz (talk) 22:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I recommend indefinite semi-protection for all targeted articles. Binksternet (talk) 22:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- That is an option. But then we need a system that makes it more automatic. As soon as we detect this user targeting new articles, it should be possible to report it and have the articles indefinitely semi-protected. It's been many hours since I reported the list of articles targeted today, about 20-30 articles. They haven't yet been semi-protected and all have since been targeted again and reverted by the same POV warrior.Jeppiz (talk) 22:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I have begun with temporary semi-protections of this list but I need to log out now. Regarding the range block it should be noted that the 85.99.xx range has also been involved [31]. De728631 (talk) 23:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support both Solutions, but the second one is more appropriate! How many Articles would we semi-protect? These IPs should be banned, or a range-ban should be there, but account creation should remain enabled in the IP range to facilitate Wikipedia contributors. Faizan (talk) 05:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I have begun with temporary semi-protections of this list but I need to log out now. Regarding the range block it should be noted that the 85.99.xx range has also been involved [31]. De728631 (talk) 23:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- That is an option. But then we need a system that makes it more automatic. As soon as we detect this user targeting new articles, it should be possible to report it and have the articles indefinitely semi-protected. It's been many hours since I reported the list of articles targeted today, about 20-30 articles. They haven't yet been semi-protected and all have since been targeted again and reverted by the same POV warrior.Jeppiz (talk) 22:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- I recommend indefinite semi-protection for all targeted articles. Binksternet (talk) 22:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Comment. I suggest disable "anonymous editing/IP editing" and enable "account creation" for those range of IPs. Because those IPs are shared/dynamic addresses and maybe another user/editor needs to create an account. I also support Jeppiz's solutions to deal with this situation. Zheek (talk) 08:31, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
How frequently does his IP change? Every few days? Hours? Minutes? Thanks. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:46, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- The IP changes every few hours, I haven't counted but I think there were at least five different IPs yesterday, but obviously by the same user. Same thing a few days earlier, lots of different IPs in quick succession. Like Zheek and Faizan I think we should consider disabling editing from the range 78.160.xxx.xx as well as 85.99.xx but keep account creation enabled. In the end, it's a more convenient option that eventually semi-protecting hundreds of articles just because of one disruptive person.Jeppiz (talk) 10:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Another option would be to use the edit filter, blocking IP editors from this address range from editing only those articles that contain specific keywords. It's a bit of a pain to implement, but has successfully stopped several similar incidents in the past. However, in the short run, I think rangeblocking anonymous editing from those address ranges while still allowing edits from logged-in users is the best way to go until a more nuanced solution can be developed. -- The Anome (talk) 11:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- And if they return? Zheek (talk) 21:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I unarchived the RFPP and {{tlx}}'ed anything that would get it re-archived, so the list will still be there for any admin who wants to provide a liberal dose of semi-protection (or pending changes if it becomes less frequent). Or, for broader solutions, there's always the option of blocking more ranges or, if the IP-hopper starts creating accounts, blocking account creation on the ranges that are already blocked (if that needs to happen, someone should file at WP:SPI#Quick CheckUser requests to check that they're still on the same ranges, and approximate the extent of the collateral damage.) — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 22:56, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- And if they return? Zheek (talk) 21:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Not solved yet
This new IP 95.5.25.10 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is definitely the same user, continuing the quest of Turkifying most of the world.Jeppiz (talk) 10:11, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Targeted articles:
- Please review Template:History of the Turks pre-14th century version history. He/She (currently 95.5.25.10) has used many IPs (different ranges). Compare those IPs' edits and edit summaries on that template and template talk. This IP-hopper will return. Zheek (talk) 11:01, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
The WP:RFPP noticeboard is heavily backlogged. Some mops are needed. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:43, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Proposal to unblock User:Kalki
I propose to unblock User:Kalki. Kalki has been indefblocked since October of 2010 for editing from an absurdly large number of accounts (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kalki/Archive). However, so far as I can tell he neither engaged in vandalism, nor used those accounts to vote multiple times in discussions (although I believe there may have been some occasions where he contributed to a discussion using two different accounts). It seems, rather, that Kalki's sockpuppetry was motivated primarily by a quixotic desire on his part to do good deeds without taking credit for them. Following Kalki's block here, he was desysopped at English Wikiquote for basically the same reasons, but was allowed to continue editing, although clearly limited to one account. In the intervening two years, Kalki has consistently been one of the top contributors to Wikiquote, both as a content creator and as a vandal fighter. Although he certainly has some quirks in terms of his editing preferences, and we have had strong disagreements on issues of style and page arrangement, it is clear to me that Wikiquote benefits from his involvement. I believe that Wikipedia would also benefit from Kalki being able to edit here, and I his generally good behavior on Wikiquote leaves me with no reason to believe that he would repeat the sockpuppetry that got him in trouble in the first place. Cheers! bd2412 T 17:53, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think it would be best if we heard something from them, like, do they even care or want to be unblocked. they appear to have talk page access and can appeal this themselves whenever they wish. Unless and until they do that I see no need for a community discussion of the matter.
Indeed, after such a long time it would probably be a fairly simple matter for them to just get unblocked by promising to limit themselves to one account in the future.apparently that is not the case, but it would be a start anyway... Beeblebrox (talk) 18:25, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would adamantly oppose an unblock, primarily on the basis of Kalki's behavior on Wikiquote, where he used multiple sockpuppets to essentially maintain single-handed control of that project. There was nothing there that was indicative of any desire to do good deeds without taking credit for it, Kalki routinely brought out the socks to back him up whenever another editor disagreed with him. His behavior, and unwillingness to compromise, drove me off that project before it was revealed that he was socking to an absurd extent - and it should be remembered that he was the sole bureaucrat there at the time.
Now, off-wiki behavior is not normally considered when determining on-Wiki decisions, but I feel that Kalki's behavior on Wikiquote must be taken into account, as it demonstrates that he is not beyond lying, deception, (that's what pretending to be someone else is) and misusing a Wiki for his own purposes. I see absolutely no reason why we should assume that this leopard has changed his spots. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've posted a neutrally-worded pointer to this discussion on the Village Pump at en.wikiquote. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:56, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, Kalki has made a statement as to this proposal on his talk page. I agree that Kalki's behavior both here and on Wikiquote was bad, but that was several years ago. I believe that, his occasionally overwrought contributions to discussions aside, he has basically been rehabilitated. We can always unblock him now, and reimpose the block if he actually engages in improper behavior. bd2412 T 21:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- You're assuming that any misbehavior would be under this account name, aren't you? But the basic problem with Kalki was his devious socking, and sockpuppetry does not come to light as easily as disruptive editing, and it is much easier for the master and the socks to argue against it, at least until a CU gets involved. Do we know that Kalki hasn't been socking since he's been blocked, has a CU run a scan? Has he taken responsibility for his malfeasance at Wikiquote, or, like DanielTom below, does he think that his blocking and desysoping there was "harrassment"?
It's not so easy to accept that someone has been "rehabilitated" when their misbehavior has been on the scale of Kalki's, who single-handedly controlled a Wikimedia Project for a long time. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I have no objection to conditioning a removal of the block on a Checkuser review, both here and on Wikiquote. While I disagree with the assertion that Kalki's desysopping was "harassment", it has been abundantly clear since then that there is a single editor who was a strong advocate of that process, and who continues to take every opportunity to provoke Kalki. I must say, also, that I have been editing Wikiquote for eight years now, to the tune of over 65,000 edits, and although I have had numerous disagreements with Kalki over issues ranging from punctuation in citations to limitations on the number of quotes and images on a page, I have never felt like he controlled the outcome of those discussions. Despite his sockpuppetry (and his theoretical ability to overwhelm discussions with sockpuppet support) he was most often either on the losing side of the discussion, or on the side shared by a solid majority of the many editors who were not, and are not sockpuppets. In other words, Kalki did not, at any time that I witnessed, "maintain single-handed control of that project". bd2412 T 23:25, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Clearly, our Wikiquote experiences differed, fair enough. I have no interest in continuing to "prosecute" this, I think it's quite obvious that I do not consider Kalki to be trustworthy, and feel that an unblock is unwarranted, especially since no really good reason has been given for one -- simply having been blocked for X amount of time is no reason that one should be unblocked, and the hyperbolic hosannas expressed by DanielTom below are less than creditable. I guess, if you do decide to go ahead, a CU clearance would be a minimum step. I'll back away now and let others have their say. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I have no objection to conditioning a removal of the block on a Checkuser review, both here and on Wikiquote. While I disagree with the assertion that Kalki's desysopping was "harassment", it has been abundantly clear since then that there is a single editor who was a strong advocate of that process, and who continues to take every opportunity to provoke Kalki. I must say, also, that I have been editing Wikiquote for eight years now, to the tune of over 65,000 edits, and although I have had numerous disagreements with Kalki over issues ranging from punctuation in citations to limitations on the number of quotes and images on a page, I have never felt like he controlled the outcome of those discussions. Despite his sockpuppetry (and his theoretical ability to overwhelm discussions with sockpuppet support) he was most often either on the losing side of the discussion, or on the side shared by a solid majority of the many editors who were not, and are not sockpuppets. In other words, Kalki did not, at any time that I witnessed, "maintain single-handed control of that project". bd2412 T 23:25, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- You're assuming that any misbehavior would be under this account name, aren't you? But the basic problem with Kalki was his devious socking, and sockpuppetry does not come to light as easily as disruptive editing, and it is much easier for the master and the socks to argue against it, at least until a CU gets involved. Do we know that Kalki hasn't been socking since he's been blocked, has a CU run a scan? Has he taken responsibility for his malfeasance at Wikiquote, or, like DanielTom below, does he think that his blocking and desysoping there was "harrassment"?
- I agree on one point, namely that Kalki's behavior on Wikiquote must be taken into account, but that is exactly why I give my strongest possible SUPPORT to this proposal to unblock Kalki, and I commend bd2412 for bringing this up.
- Sorry to say, but Beyond My Ken completely misrepresents what actually happened on Wikiquote, and his assertions about Kalki are simply FALSE. Even those who in the past persecuted (or, in my opinion, harassed) and quite improperly blocked him, could not find compelling evidence that he ever made abusive edits with any of his many other accounts, on any project, discounting one or two minor incidents which Kalki maintains to have been unintentional mistakes; now contrast that with the 90 000 constructive edits that Kalki has made overall, over the past 10 years, on Wikiquote alone, and you can get some perspective.
- Just for the record, the Wikiquote policy doesn't actually forbid the use of other, secondary, accounts, except when they are used for vandalism, which is something that Kalki has NEVER done. (A Wikiquote sock puppet is another account belonging to a user, used for causing trouble, vandalism or as a way to get around Wikiquote's policies — based on that definition, I should even object to calling Kalki a "sockpuppeteer".)
- Now, I urge you, let's please, please keep in mind here that we are talking about one of the most knowledgeable and capable users in existence either on Wikiquote or Wikipedia (as well as in other projects), whose positive contributions to said projects have been much greater than I could ever express here. I think that it should be crystal-clear to anyone not blinded by intolerance that Wikipedia is losing a very valuable editor indeed. Let's not make the same mistake again.
- Speaking for myself, and with the best interests of Wikipedia in mind, I once again urge everyone here to consider doing the proper thing, which is to unlock Kalki — who is, after all, one of the earliest and most precious editor we as a community have — and I sincerely hope that one day everyone will come to realize how privileged we are to have him and to work along side him, in our joint effort to improve Wikipedia. Thanks... ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:47, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Note that DanielTom's account dates from last October, and he has 214 edits, and yet he knows that Kalki is "one of the earliest and most precious editor we as a community have" and is "one of the most knowledgeable and capable users in existence...whose positive contributions to said projects have been much greater than I could ever express here". This, I think, is called "damning with great praise." If I didn't have gobs of AGF all the way down to my bones, I would be a might suspicious. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Those who wish to judge for themselves whether the removal of the sysop and bureaucrat flags from Kalki at en.Wikiquote was indeed "harrassment", as characterized by DanielTom above, should read Kalki's Vote of Confidence from their archive. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:31, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would NEVER have thought that the opinions of users should be discounted just because of their supposedly low edit count... Just so you know, even though I edit on several different projects, my main work is at Wikiquote, where I have nearly 2500 constructive edits (for what it's worth). I must leave now, so don't be offended if I don't have the time to respond to other silly attacks of this nature. Best wishes, DanielTom (talk) 22:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I actually went outside for a while but, as I waited a long time for the bus, I eventually realized what you are actually trying to imply (I missed it because of my naïveté), so I just came back to give you a heads-up. There is, in fact, no mystery here about what I know — I have read pretty much all the archived discussions at Wikiquote regarding this issue, and many others, so I think I am within my rights to express my opinion here about Kalki. NEVERTHELESS, if you are suggesting — "I would be a might suspicious" — that I am another sock puppet of Kalki , that is no accusation that you should make so lightly, and if you are to express it then I think you should go ahead and request that a Checkuser confirm it. This is not a joke. I should of course warn you that you must, however, be prepared to say that Kalki has been committing the grave crime of impersonating myself (Daniel Tomé) and, moreover, that he also knows Portuguese — which I am very doubtful that he does — so I would suggest that you actually take the time to analyse my contributions (such as the ones I made to Meta, where I have translated several pages to Portuguese) before you embarrass yourself further or, even worse, make such vicious accusations again. Thanks for your understanding, and I'm off again. ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a side discussion altogether, but while I have 2500 edits on Wikiquote, you have 11 edits there, so your argument is really quite self-defeating... ~ DanielTom (talk) 08:51, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Note that DanielTom's account dates from last October, and he has 214 edits, and yet he knows that Kalki is "one of the earliest and most precious editor we as a community have" and is "one of the most knowledgeable and capable users in existence...whose positive contributions to said projects have been much greater than I could ever express here". This, I think, is called "damning with great praise." If I didn't have gobs of AGF all the way down to my bones, I would be a might suspicious. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would adamantly oppose an unblock, primarily on the basis of Kalki's behavior on Wikiquote, where he used multiple sockpuppets to essentially maintain single-handed control of that project. There was nothing there that was indicative of any desire to do good deeds without taking credit for it, Kalki routinely brought out the socks to back him up whenever another editor disagreed with him. His behavior, and unwillingness to compromise, drove me off that project before it was revealed that he was socking to an absurd extent - and it should be remembered that he was the sole bureaucrat there at the time.
- Oppose unblock - This user is in my top rank of the untrustworthy here... a multiple sockmaster who abused our processes to push their viewpoints. Why invite a proven moral cheater back into the fold? Disturbing lack of common sense here, in my opinion. Jusdafax 00:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Well, again, my proposition is based on my experience with Kalki's continued positive contributions at Wikiquote. bd2412 T 03:12, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Could you please show us the evidence that he ever abused our processes to push their viewpoints? As far as I know, you won't be able to find any such evidence, but it would be very enlightening indeed if you could. Thanks. ~ DanielTom (talk) 09:01, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- P.S. For the record, it strikes me as very odd that you should accuse those who have actually worked the longest with Kalki of lack of common sense, since it is they of all people who actually know him better and understand how unjust it is to keep him blocked. Despite the historical misrepresentations, as it all happened years ago, and given that, in the meantime (working with just one account), Kalki has continued to be one of the most valuable editors on Wikiquote, what truly strikes me as "lack of common sense" is saying that after all this time he still shouldn't be allowed to even edit here. Sincerely yours, DanielTom (talk) 10:03, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Kalki has been blocked for a long time, it seems to me that wp:offer should apply in this case. As long as we get a commitment that Kalki will now stick to one account I see no reason not to unblock. ϢereSpielChequers 10:32, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you. He's already agreed on his Talk page "to edit here under NO account other than the Kalki account". ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed, thanks for bringing up Wikipedia:Standard offer; the recommended "wait time" under that policy is six months; Kalki has remained silent for nearly two and a half years. As DanielTom indicates, Kalki has made a commitment to stick to one account. bd2412 T 14:05, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you. He's already agreed on his Talk page "to edit here under NO account other than the Kalki account". ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Request to lift restrictions
Hi, I would like to request lifting of editing restrictions imposed on me 5 years ago in 2008[32] and removal from Wikipedia:Restrict [33]. Since almost 5 years have passed I believe they can be lifted. Kind regards. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:46, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think most if not all of us would like to see a more compelling explanation of why the restrictions are no longer needed. You could start by explaining what you would do differently than before should the restrictions be lifted. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- I focus completely on writing and expanding articles and watching for vandalism and blanking. I think that after 5 years I am more serious and completely calm editor, I certainly see my role on Wiki as encyclopedian and disputes or conflicts aren't of interest to me, expanding articles and knowledge is.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 20:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support lifting per WP:Statute of limitations. (Somebody should write that, by the way). NE Ent 22:48, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Provisional support per WP:ROPE. Lift the restrictions for a month or so, and at the end of the month check back to make sure there's been no recidivism, and if there hasn't, extend the lifting indefinitely then. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 23:04, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- The clean period isn't the full five years since the restrictions (but is long enough for me...) due to ongoing blocking, but the unenviable block log of the previous account hasn't been maintained on this one. I'd support lifting per PA. Give then a chance. If it fails, it can always go back on. Peridon (talk) 23:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support lifting per WP:EHWHYTHEHECKNOT. Maybe that should redirect to NE Ent's link... --Jayron32 00:33, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've been involved in some content disputes in which MyMoloboaccount was also involved (from memory, we were on the same 'side'), and from memory his or her conduct was fine - including in the face of some provocations and bad-faith editing. As such, I'd support lifting these restrictions. WP:ROPE obviously applies, especially in regards to the Eastern Europe restriction though (as a housekeeping note, this restriction was never logged at WP:ARBEE). Nick-D (talk) 07:30, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose lifting. Nothing has changed since 2008, it's the same good ol' Molobo. He has been more careful to e.g. not exceed the allowed number of reverts a day but he continues to be confrontational and his edits are far away from NPOV. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Miacek, you'll need to provide some examples of battleground conduct before I am convinced of your stance. As of this moment, he has not been blocked at all since May 2010. Kurtis (talk) 12:06, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Very strong support — A review of his talk page indicates to me that Molobo is extremely approachable and provides thorough responses when confronted by people who disagree with him. As I noted above, he has not been blocked once since 2010. WP:ROPE doesn't even apply here; the Molobo of today is too mature to figuratively "hang" himself. The restrictions from 2008 are now completely irrelevant. Kurtis (talk) 12:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support removal; restrictions that hang around and hang around and frustrate quality editors into despair are a problem. Frankly, I'd sunset all sanctions after two years.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:10, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support. This editing restriction by Moreschi included 1RR restriction and civility. If someone was able to edit for more than three years without edit wars and incivility in this subject area (the block record of MyMoloboaccount is clean), they can do it without restriction. Having a restriction that is no longer needed strongly stigmatizes a contributor and reduces his participation. My very best wishes (talk) 14:45, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah surely, he engaged in edit warring in support of his rabid nationalist POV pushing just to the extent that he won't be blocked [34]. Smart strategy! Some other recent examples of his bias, nationalist battleground mentality and anti-German mudslinging: [35], [36], [37] (cf third party comments). Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 15:22, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support per Jayron32's reasoning. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 14:56, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Repost from VP (Tech)
"It seems to have gone now, but [on March 29th] I had a load of 'nanny says' type info coming up when performing admin actions (i.e. deletions and blocks). There was so much, I had to scroll down to get to the blocking bit. What was it there for, and why's it gone again? (Note I am not begging for its return - just being nosy...)" As no-one there seems bothered, did any other admins get this, and does anyone know what was going on? Peridon (talk) 21:13, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Not clear what you mean. Did you find a ton of junk on top of the "You are about to delete..." and "You can use this form to block editing access" pages? Neither MediaWiki:Confirmdeletetext nor MediaWiki:Blockiptext has had substantial revisions lately. Nyttend (talk) 23:28, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- There were lists of dos and dont's, lists of sensitive IPs (quite useful, really), and even the Action completed page had links to this, that and the other on it. I'm using Monoblock, in case that makes a difference (can't stand Vector - I even change prefs on any foreign Wikipedia I go on so I can find my way around). I'm trying to remember if it was only like this the one day, or for the day before as well. Surely I can't have been the only one getting it? Peridon (talk) 23:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Weird. I'm on Monobook for the same reason, and I don't remember getting anything unusual, even though (as my log shows) I performed a bunch of deletions on the 29th. We have the list of dos and donts and the list of sensitive IPs on the Blockiptext page, but it's no different from what I've seen for a long time. Nyttend (talk) 23:48, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- If you want them back, set your interface language to "en". Not British English, not Canadian English. All of the "nanny says" kind of stuff only shows up in the plain English version of the site. There was a problem with selecting overrides of the user interface based on language settings. For a while, I was getting volumes of English on every action I took even though I keep my user interface set to Dutch. That change got undone because it really irritated the foreign language users. I think someone should undertake the effort to realign all the English interfaces, though.
- The history can be found at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46579 and WP:Village pump (technical)#Language preferences getting mishandled—Kww(talk) 23:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Wow, that is weird; I just changed my preferences to en-gb temporarily and was surprised to see how slim the pages are. I had no clue that we had different texts of this sort for different languages. Nyttend (talk) 23:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)Ah. I'm set to Brit English (I think - haven't looked for a long time, and certainly hadn't been messing with preferences here). I can't remember when I last blocked an IP, so I won't remember what the screen looked like. Odd that I got it for a day or so, though. Probably one of those 'inexplicable occurrences' that I remember an Apple manual saying could happen... Peridon (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I am on Brit English. Peridon (talk) 00:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- You were just being treated to the American English version of the site because your preference for British English was being ignored whenever there was a custom message.—Kww(talk) 00:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I am on Brit English. Peridon (talk) 00:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)Ah. I'm set to Brit English (I think - haven't looked for a long time, and certainly hadn't been messing with preferences here). I can't remember when I last blocked an IP, so I won't remember what the screen looked like. Odd that I got it for a day or so, though. Probably one of those 'inexplicable occurrences' that I remember an Apple manual saying could happen... Peridon (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Wow, that is weird; I just changed my preferences to en-gb temporarily and was surprised to see how slim the pages are. I had no clue that we had different texts of this sort for different languages. Nyttend (talk) 23:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Weird. I'm on Monobook for the same reason, and I don't remember getting anything unusual, even though (as my log shows) I performed a bunch of deletions on the 29th. We have the list of dos and donts and the list of sensitive IPs on the Blockiptext page, but it's no different from what I've seen for a long time. Nyttend (talk) 23:48, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- There were lists of dos and dont's, lists of sensitive IPs (quite useful, really), and even the Action completed page had links to this, that and the other on it. I'm using Monoblock, in case that makes a difference (can't stand Vector - I even change prefs on any foreign Wikipedia I go on so I can find my way around). I'm trying to remember if it was only like this the one day, or for the day before as well. Surely I can't have been the only one getting it? Peridon (talk) 23:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
This page has a chronic backlog, I have recently closed a number of requests, however I would prefer someone/admin with a little more experience to take a look and close 4 threads that have been open for over 6 months. (normal time is only 7 days):
Thanks, Werieth (talk) 23:18, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
What qualifies for personal attack?
calls me stubborn calls me a user with sectarian agenda calls me below common sense of illiterate Sunni --Kazemita1 (talk) 03:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Kezemita you misquoted the last thing i supposedly called you. Read the context and it has nothing to do with you. I am merely stating that you have mispresented misyar as 1. Temporary marriage (clearly false) 2. As purely for sexual pleasure (clearly false since its permabent marriage. You want to keep adding this content even though it was already rehected by neutral editors on its talk page. So could you please tell me for once why you keep adding this?Suenahrme (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
User Rights Management
I only just noticed the 'User rights management' below the "block" and "email" buttons in the toolbox on userpages and user talk pages. Was this not there before or should I start going to bed before 8am so I notice things more? - The Bushranger One ping only 11:13, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure it's been there at least since I got the bit in November. More early nights I think. Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 11:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Can't say I'd noticed it either. I suppose it saves a click going to the contribs list when modifying people. Peridon (talk) 12:20, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Tiny issue
I found this, could someone delete the article and block the account for advertising? Thanks, Sepsis II (talk) 14:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Audit Subcommittee vacancies: last call for applications
This is a reminder that the application period for the three non-arbitrator seats on the Audit Subcommittee will close at 23:59, 1 April 2013 (UTC), less than 36 hours from now.
The Audit Subcommittee ("AUSC") is comprised of six members and is tasked with investigations concerning the use of CheckUser and Oversight privileges on the English Wikipedia. The AUSC also monitors CheckUser and Oversight activity and use of the applicable tools. The current non-arbitrator members are Avraham, MBisanz, and Ponyo, whose terms were to expire on February 28 but were extended with their agreement until April 30 by the Committee.
Matters brought before the subcommittee may be time-sensitive and subcommittee members should be prepared and available to discuss cases promptly so they may be resolved in a timely manner. Sitting subcommittee members are expected to actively participate in AUSC proceedings and may be replaced should they become inactive. All subcommittee members are given both CheckUser and Oversight access but are expected to not make regular use of them unless needed. They are subject to the relevant local and global policies and guidelines concerning CheckUser and Oversight.
Please note that due to Wikimedia Foundation rules governing access to deleted material, only applications from administrators will be accepted.
If you think you may be suitably qualified, please email arbcom-en-clists.wikimedia.org to start the application procedure for an appointment ending 30 June 2014. Once again, the application period will close at 23:59, 1 April 2013 (UTC). Further information is also available here.
For the Arbitration Committee, T. Canens (talk) 14:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)