This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to California. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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California
- John-Paul Tran (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment. This article should wait until there is some actual WP:SIGCOV of the subject, who is still a child athlete. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and California. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Could not find any coverage besides a singular mention [1] (not including the 1 source on the article). Fails WP:NATHLETE. SirMemeGod 21:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would also support draftification per the nomination until Tran gets more coverage. SirMemeGod 21:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: No coverage found, and a long way from being a notable athlete for our purposes here. I don't even thing drafting would help, still a young competitor, not competing on the national level Oaktree b (talk) 23:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Varrio 204th Street (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lack of notability. TheLongTone (talk) 14:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and California. Shellwood (talk) 16:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of criminal gangs in Los Angeles: While I did find a singular Washington Post article about them, I can't find anything else that prevents a failure of WP:GNG. A redirect would work. SirMemeGod 20:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Rusty Shoop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Another dime-a-dozen TV weatherman article, with hardly any content since its 2008 creation that fails to establish why subject is notable. Sources before and after death are primary, with no viable third-party coverage. 💥Casualty • Hop along. • 08:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and California. 💥Casualty • Hop along. • 08:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- John W. Murray (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nonnotable pastor. Lacking significant coverage. --Altenmann >talk 23:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I found a primary source [2] and that's about it. I don't see notability. Oaktree b (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Christianity, California, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:02, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Friendly Fire: The Illusion of Justice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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One review (which is questionable reliability wise), nothing else found in a search. Self-published. Does not pass NBOOK. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Police, Sexuality and gender, and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:18, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Found this work used as reference in others: here, here and here. Scholar doesn't bring up much more. Also listed here. Not much else. --Ouro (blah blah) 05:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Scribe (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article fails demonstrate notability under WP:NCORP. Both TechCrunch articles are about routine fundraising events (WP:ORGTRIV). And not that it matters but the article was created by a now-blocked SPA. Brandon (talk) 00:28, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies, Softball, and California. Brandon (talk) 00:28, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Jason Emer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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1. It was moved from draft space to article space before it was reviewed and made live by the creator of the page
2. It was moved to draft space by other editors due to promotional tone, it seemed as it was written by someone closely connected to the subject
3. It was proposed for deletion and the final decision was to keep. However, the keep voters: 1 was a new account created just for this debate only (seems like it and it was an open IP, one was an editor banned for sock-puppetry)
4. There is someone constantly removing a section that is a bit negative about the subject
All this makes me believe that this page is being managed by someone closely connected to the subject. Additionally, i don't believe the subject is notable and most of the references are PRs and he is constantly self-promoting on the internet. WikiProCreate (talk) 13:49, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 17. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 14:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Appears to be a celebrity plastic surgeon [3], [4], [5]. I'm not sure any of these show notability. Discussion in AfD last time was also questioning the Academic notability, noting that 1000 citations was rather low for his field. I don't see that much has changed since the last AfD. Oaktree b (talk) 14:53, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: He's been investigated by a few regulatory bodies [6], which doesn't affect notability. This information has been added/removed, suggesting this page is being actively curated by editors, likely for promo purposes. Oaktree b (talk) 15:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Medicine, and United States of America. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, California, Illinois, and New York. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:54, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- SuperBot Entertainment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Doesn't appear to be pass notability. Perhaps merging with PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, I am unsure where "iPad storybook app" CUDDLEFISH FRIENDS could be mentioned. IgelRM (talk) 14:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Companies, and California. IgelRM (talk) 14:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect/merge with PlayStation All-Stars as their only notable game. Does not appear standalone notable, and seems to have been made by a single-purpose account. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Los Angeles Organizing Committee for the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP, article is essentially just a list of people so nothing to merge. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations and Olympics. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Seems to be the standard style for OOC articles and the GNG is passed, and of course it's four years off so right now it's all planning and no actual events have occurred. Nate • (chatter) 23:11, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't even see GNG being met. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- JEDA Technologies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable company, doesn't satisfy WP:GNG. Tule-hog (talk) 01:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Software and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Nino Fresh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:MUSICBIO, WP:SIGCOV. References are annoucements,profiles and interviews. scope_creepTalk 15:43, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Music, and California. – The Grid (talk) 15:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Jessica Serfaty (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not notable as an actress or a living person. The editing spirit (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, and Arkansas. Shellwood (talk) 10:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: a lot (I do mean a lot) of coverage mostly on her private life in more or less reliable sources (from Globo and People to, say, Page Six and Pure People or US Weekly) but not on a short period of time (2014-now, at least). Some people receive significant coverage because they create a vaccine, some for their private life. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:37, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The South China Morning Post article is fine, this is also coverage [7]. Source 7 is also a RS per source highlighter. Not super extensive, but it's enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Oaktree b and Mushy Yank. SCMP, Elle, Vanity Fair articles are directly about her. Further we can expand using German Wikipedia article. Freriks (talk) 07:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Laboratory for Energy-Related Health Research Superfund Site (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails to establish notability. None of the article's sources appear independent of the subject, and are thus not reliable enough to support a claim of notability. A quick check before the nomination did not turn up any other sources with significant coverage which would help. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Environment and California. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The following articles exist:[8] [9][10]. The first two constitute significant coverage. The third is a passing mention but worth noting nonetheless. Additionally, I would argue some the government sources in the article may be secondary, as well as number 5. Garsh (talk) 21:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Garsh2: I saw the California Aggie article in my search but did not mention it here as that publication is a campus newspaper run by students at UC Davis; see their Instagram profile. The Sacramento Bee article looks good, but I'm highly skeptical of the reliability of ToxicSites (citation 5), and I'm not sure if the government sources are independent enough to count towards notability as the site seems to be managed by the US Department of Energy. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The following articles exist:[8] [9][10]. The first two constitute significant coverage. The third is a passing mention but worth noting nonetheless. Additionally, I would argue some the government sources in the article may be secondary, as well as number 5. Garsh (talk) 21:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Jennifer Smith (entrepreneur) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Aside from interviews, sources are about Scribe (company), not the subject of the article herself. Brandon (talk) 15:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Computing. Brandon (talk) 15:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
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- City News Los Angeles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I cannot find any mention of this newspaper in any source. While obviously it did exist at one time (their website is archived on the Wayback Machine), the lack of any third-party coverage means that it clearly fails GNG. Pinguinn 🐧 13:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: News media, Sexuality and gender, and California. Pinguinn 🐧 13:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Cannon Trading Company, Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:COMPANY. No good sources. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance, Companies, and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and improve : Seeing the sources listed not sure where the subject is notable. Better to incubate in draftspace.Nirmalburlakoti (talk) 06:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment could be considered for deletion if it lacks sufficient independent, reliable sources that establish its notability under Wikipedia's guidelines. If the content primarily consists of promotional material or fails to demonstrate significant industry coverage --Moarnighar (talk) 11:03, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and improve : Seeing the sources listed not sure where the subject is notable. Better to incubate in draftspace.Nirmalburlakoti (talk) 06:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- UCI Health – Los Alamitos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:SIGCOV nor WP:NCORP. I thought about bundling with the Fountain Valley edition. However, there might be something about each specific location that could be found with a further in-depth search. Conyo14 (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep this hospital is notable, the nominator did not do a Google Search. Catfurball (talk) 18:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Did a WP:BEFORE. Aside from press releases, I couldn't find anything. However, I don't doubt the hospital had other names. Thus, if sigcov is proven, then it can remain. However, the sources there right now are better for a merge between the three articles.
- Also, WP:AGF. Conyo14 (talk) 18:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- UCI Health – Lakewood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:SIGCOV nor WP:NCORP. I thought about bundling with the Fountain Valley edition. However, there might be something about each specific location that I wouldn't want to mix with the others. Conyo14 (talk) 04:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep this hospital is notable, the nominator did not do a Google Search. Catfurball (talk) 18:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete For the Lakewood hospital in particular, there doesn't seem to be extensive non-trivial coverage. Pallikari ap' ta Sfakia 18:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- UCI Health – Fountain Valley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:GNG. The sources speak of the majority of hospitals within the network but give no significant coverage of the Fountain Valley location Conyo14 (talk) 04:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep this hospital is notable, the nominator should have did a Google Search before nominating. Catfurball (talk) 17:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I see a consensus to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 03:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Dummy (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable music group. Fails WP:BAND. Cabrils (talk) 03:26, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep I see two album reviews from Pitchfork, two from Paste, one from Stereogum, one from PopMatters, and that's just what's already linked in the article. The group seems like it easily clears WP:BAND. hinnk (talk) 08:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, meets WP:NBAND#1 from the contents of the article alone. Geschichte (talk) 12:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and expand. I wonder if the nominator simply looked at the article's lack of detail, which currently makes the band look less notable than it is. The band is featured/reviewed in the indie rock press regularly, and the sources already cited can be used for historical info to expand the article beyond its current stub state. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep they're notable; article just needs some work Rainsage (talk) 15:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. In full agreement with Geschichte. GanzKnusper (talk) 17:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- List of entertainment events at Kia Forum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment, Events, Lists, and California. Shellwood (talk) 16:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- List of entertainment events at Crypto.com Arena (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No specific statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment, Events, Lists, and California. Shellwood (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Indeed a case of failing WP:NLIST. Also, notable entertainers and events are already discussed on the arena's main page, so having a list of each and every one is superfluous. TH1980 (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- List of entertainment events at the Golden 1 Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Significant referencing problems. mikeblas (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment, Events, Lists, and California. Skynxnex (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep: These three sources (all independent, secondary, and reliable) collate entries of this list topic together as a group, thus satisfying WP:NLIST criteria. Left guide (talk) 21:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)- These are just schedules (and they only cover 2024), so they don't satisfy WP:NLIST because they're not significant coverage. -- mikeblas (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- You have a point; I hadn't previously inspected the sources in that manner, but now I have. In that light, delete. Left guide (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- These are just schedules (and they only cover 2024), so they don't satisfy WP:NLIST because they're not significant coverage. -- mikeblas (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Melvin Storer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Being mistakenly reported killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor doesn't make this sailor notable (unless he was supposedly killed by the Germans). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Military, California, and Oregon. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Weak delete as WP:BIO1E, despite some coverage. Mztourist (talk) 05:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Yes non-notable person. Xegma(talk) 06:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep or Redirect coverage passes GNG: The Oregon Daily Journal 2 3, The Oregonian 2, Herald and News
and also meets WP:ANYBIO with the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. 1but also a case of WP:BIO1E. The Attack on Pearl Harbor could be an appropriate place for a redirect, but the subject does have enough WP:SIGCOV at Newspapers.com to justify a standalone article.
- Filmforme (talk) 06:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- A low-level decoration does not confer notability. Only the Medal of Honor, Victoria Cross, or multiple second-level awards do that. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Literally millions of Americans were awarded the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying. What about the Bronze Star? Filmforme (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- It is not a blanket campaign level medal, but still well below the ANYBIO line which is generally the highest military honor awarded by the subject's nation. Additionally, it appears he was not actually awarded the Bronze Star Medal but rather had bronze service stars on his campaign medal which denote how many specific operations or campaigns participated in within the overall Pacific campaign. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:BIO1E. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:GNG. He was involved in two events: the attack on Pearl Harbor and the salvage effort (which I consider deserves its own article even though it has not got one). WP:BIO1E is a guideline that provides advice but does not trump WP:SUMMARY, which says that sections of long articles can be spun off into their own articles. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- He didn’t play a notable role in either event, though. And it is still an event and the aftermath of the event. All we have is quick (1-2 paragraph) snippets in local newspapers (ie: "local man re-enlists") except for his mistakenly being reported dead for six days (which still garnered only local coverage). This was incredibly common at the time. Best, GPL93 (talk) 01:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete An ordinary sailor, doing ordinary things.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have been updating the article, including more information I've found at Newspapers.com. There's no question the subject passes WP:GNG, but it is my observation that some may not agree of the reason why he was written about, and not that this isn't a notable topic according to WP:NEXIST.
- Storer was not the only one who was considered lost in the attack and later found alive. But it should be noted that his family and home state of Oregon was not notified he survived for weeks, only after they had a funeral service involving Portland's Mayor. The ordeal of Storer initially being lost during a heavily covered historic event is what likely triggered the WP:SIGCOV from media once it turned out he had survived. In addition, he has a first hand account and unique perspective of his own experience, and his involvement with the salvage afterwards.
- As for WP:BIO1E, this is a unique case and I agree with @Hawkeye7 that Attack on Pearl Harbor is a long article to consider a redirect. The subject meets WP:NBASIC, though a shorter article covering Storer and others in similar circumstances would be suitable too. WP:PSEUDO applies here and there is coverage on the subject unrelated to the attack: to their expertise as a diver searching for people that were believed to have drowned. 1 2 3 –Filmforme (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Rather routine military career (that is rather briefly described here) and after the war doesn't seem to be much more notable. Reported as passing away Pearl Harbour, then surviving is more of a trivia item than a notable item for wikipedia. Oaktree b (talk) 01:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A lot of additional sourcing was added since this article's nomination. I'd appreciate editors reviewing the article now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Wizeline (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet WP:NCORP. All references are press releases and "top 10 companies" listings. Google News search returns no reliable secondary sources that establish notability. Dan • ✉ 15:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies, Computing, and California. jlwoodwa (talk) 16:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 18:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- RadioactiveGiant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP due to a lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. The problem appears to be with WP:CORPDEPTH in particular, since there was only trivial coverage in virtually every source I found. The sources already in the article are IMDB or trivial announcements such as a business agreement or the opening of a studio. Tagged for notability since 2011. Fathoms Below (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:44, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Basem Al-Shayeb (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I believe that the above article is a blatant example of self-promotion, and does not meet Wikipedia's notability requirements for articles about people. The article heavily references the accolades and accomplishments of this person, seemingly for no other reason than to make them sound impressive, but their listed accomplishments and scientific contributions, though interesting on their own merits, are frankly not very noteworthy against the backdrop of the molecular biology field. They obtained a PhD from UC Berkeley, got their dissertation work published in some high-profile journals, and co-founded a startup- so what? This is not a singular accomplishment; this person did not discover anything that significantly advanced the field, and to the extent that they did, they did not do so alone. There are many other individuals like them out there for which we do not - and should not - have articles.
Furthermore, the article shows every sign of having been written by either the subject themself or someone close to them, with the intent of misrepresenting their accomplishments for self-aggrandizing purposes; to wit:
1. The article as originally written named the subject as the founder of the listed company; they were a co-founder.
2. The article as originally written stated that the subject "led the discovery of" the various listed topics; they were co-first author on two of the papers and a first author on one, and moreover all of this work was evidently done during their PhD, meaning that their graduate advisor technically "led" the work in question.
3. Following my attempts to correct these misstatements, at least two single-purpose accounts were created which proceeded to revert these changes and call into question my motives in editing. I have little doubt one or both of these accounts belongs to the subject of the article.
I am aware that my actions here may be interpreted as implying some ulterior motive, but I assure you I have none: I simply do not look favorably upon people who abuse Wikipedia for self-aggrandizement and self-promotion, especially (as in this case) while being verifiably dishonest, and I am acting accordingly. Xardwen (talk) 00:24, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 10. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 01:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
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- I respectfully disagree. Wiki analytics indicate that the page has been visited 7130 times, with 13 average visits per day this year. There is significant coverage in reliable third-party sources that are independent of the subject. This suggests some noteworthiness, even if you personally think it undeserved. A quick search also yields further attributions that are not present in the article, including references in two 2024 books: Superconvergence How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World By Jamie Metzl, and The Nobel Prizes 2020 By Karl Grandin.
- It appears that the original edits that you mentioned, Xardwen, had deleted relevant news sources. They also included unsourced information, a copyrighted photo and a LinkedIn profile which are all against WP and the edits were addressed by seasoned wikipedians accordingly. It is inappropriate to insert unsourced personal opinions or skepticisms into an article. Your statements also seem to repeatedly violate both WP:AFG Assume Good Faith and WP:PA No Personal Attacks principles with potentially libelous phrases against a public figure?
- Considering your edit warring and your statement of being in the same field and in the same city as the subject, can you explain what precisely is your role or personal and financial relation to the subject for COI purposes? You mentioned strong opinions on biographies, but you have not edited any other biography apart this one. In fact, aside pages on erectile dysfunction, this is the top page you have edited. I have no tie to this topic but I hold strongly that Wikipedia is an open-source encyclopedia, not a weapon to undermine persons, nor to push a particular view or to serve a personal vendetta. Pantrail (talk) 23:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding your semantic first author comment, you are enforcing a biased personal opinion in contradiction with referenced sources, which state a leading role. A first author in biological sciences is typically the person who led the work on a day-to-day basis and is considered to have made the most substantial contributions to the overall research. In cases of co-first authorship, all co-first authors are considered to have "led" the work. Your edit was inaccurate because you removed this detail in your stated effort to undermine the subject Pantrail (talk) 00:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would like to preface the following by saying again that I would very much like a senior editor to weigh in on this matter; I believe an experienced and impartial voice is sorely needed here. That being said:
- The Wikipedia guidelines on notability state the basic criteria as follows: people are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- The secondary sources cited in the article are as follows: The Independent, GEN - Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology News, Chemical Engineering News, CRISPR Medicine, Forbes, Arab America, ScienceAlert, IFLScience, SYFY Official Site, TechCrunch, Berkeley News, The Daily Californian, and the Innovative Genomics Institute website (apologies if I have missed any sources). Of these, I would say that only the first four qualify as reliable and intellectually independent of one another and the subject; the subject was listed in Forbes and Arab America's "30 under 30" lists and thus calling these sources "independent" is questionable, and the last three listed sources are affiliated with the institution where the subject did their doctoral research. ScienceAlert is described as controversial and sensationalistic in its Wikipedia article; IFLScience is described as similarly unreliable in the article on its founder; TechCrunch seems fairly reliable based on this analysis by Ad Fontes Media; SYFY is an entertainment company and should not be regarded as reliable when it comes to science reporting, though the subject's mention by them does speak to the extent of their publicity. Indeed, if their work had not been (rather sensationalistically, in some cases) reported by multiple media outlets, and were I not also a researcher in the subject's field, then I would never have heard of them to begin with. I assure you that were I to learn of another researcher in my field with a Wikipedia page that I felt was unwarranted, I would respond exactly as I have here; this was simply the first such example I have come across.
- I would like to briefly interject here that I have never stated that I live in the same city as the subject. I am not sure how this misconception arose. I also do not believe that I am obligated to reveal any information about myself beyond what I already have, and I will decline to do so if asked. I have said previously that I have no personal or financial relation to the subject, and that is all I have to say on the matter.
- Regarding my other interests as indicated by my edit history, I do not see how this is relevant, but I appreciate you taking the time to look through my prior contributions - I hope that you found them interesting and informative. I cannot help but notice, however, that you have engaged with exactly no articles aside from the one under discussion, and that your account did not exist prior to last month. The same is true for Xerxescience, who has behaved in a more-or-less identical manner. I find this to be extremely suspect.
- Regarding your statements about co-first authorship: yes, it is true that co-first authors on a scientific publication are both regarded as having "led" the work described, but regardless, I think it is unfair and misleading not to explicitly give both individuals equal credit in an article that describes their work. Likewise regarding being a co-founder of a company- yes, a co-founder is obviously considered a founder, but listing them simply as "founder" gives an inaccurate impression of their role in the company's history- and, not incidentally, makes the referenced individual sound more impressive, which seems to be a throughline of almost every aspect of this article as it was initially written.
- To the extent that my actions have violated Wikipedia's rules: granted, and I aim to do better to avoid running afoul of them in future. I believe that my criticisms and concerns are valid even if I have crossed some lines, or had a bit too much fun at Mr. Al-Shayeb's expense. As I've said above, I would much prefer if someone else was doing this work instead of me- and yet here we are. Xardwen (talk) 00:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'd like to weigh in as an independent observer, as the flag to remove this article caught my eye. I think this article inflates the significance of its subject. There are thousands of people who recently graduated with PhDs from top universities with papers in top journals each year, yet most of these people do not have Wikipedia articles written about themselves. The wording of the first paragraph reads as an advertisement for Amber Bio. The second included information about the individual being a peer reviewer, which is a non-noteworthy duty that nearly every academic scientist fulfills.The studies called out in the third paragraph were made possible only through the hard work of a large team of fellow students, postdocs, and even Prof. Banfield herself. Given the other co-authors' (including Prof. Banfield's) documented roles in the work, I think the term "led" to describe this individual's involvement is disingenuous. Additionally, there are 600 people located in North America who are added to the Forbes "30 Under 30" list annually (30 people across 20 industries); I think Wikipedia call-outs of achievements should be saved for actually meaningful and highly selective awards. I respectfully disagree that the subject of this article represents a "public figure."
- I call on Wikipedia leadership to investigate whether the multiple accounts that created and have been editing this article in a disingenuous/advertising way represent "sock puppets" of the same person. If proven to trace back to the same person, then every indicted account should be banned for violating Wikipedia's policies. I think it is in the best interest of the Wikipedia community to stop self promotion and industrial advertisement on its platform. Hemelina (talk) 07:27, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- This has become quite ridiculous. The content of the page cannot be based on subjective opinion of a user, or terminology they think should be used, but rather the information in the sources. Xardwen has now added the same unsourced information and libelous material multiple times, and subjective synthesis of information. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and not your blog. Sources cannot be removed based on your subjective opinion of whether information is important, or how "scientific" a source is, or your biased opinion on noteworthiness of the subject's work. And I say it is biased because Xardwen has already engaged in forum shopping and has accused me of COI, and was thusly already resolved by administrators for being baseless. Meanwhile, he states he in the subject's "field" and the address associated with his account links to the San Francisco metropolitan area, in particular Berkeley. It is abundantly clear that he is somehow linked to the subject and has been obsessively editing the page to harass and malign them, which he has expressed himself "with savage delight". Hemelina is also a brand new account that is likely Xardwen's sockpuppet to further target this page, having just been created to install the same baseless claims and remove information. Xerxescience (talk) 04:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, well. Whoopsies. Regardless, I have no personal or financial connection to the subject, though I don't expect anyone to believe me. I have no idea who User:Hemelina is, either. I have opened a "Request for Comment" on the article's Talk page; I hope that this matter will shortly be moved into the hands of more experienced editors.Xardwen (talk) 04:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Xardwen you have yet again inserted original synthesis of your own subjective opinions into the page, replacing the language that was presented in the source articles, and violating Wikipedia:No original research after multiple warnings. I will also note the interesting presentation of the same typos as User:Hemelina. Xerxescience (talk) 04:27, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, well. Whoopsies. Regardless, I have no personal or financial connection to the subject, though I don't expect anyone to believe me. I have no idea who User:Hemelina is, either. I have opened a "Request for Comment" on the article's Talk page; I hope that this matter will shortly be moved into the hands of more experienced editors.Xardwen (talk) 04:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- This has become quite ridiculous. The content of the page cannot be based on subjective opinion of a user, or terminology they think should be used, but rather the information in the sources. Xardwen has now added the same unsourced information and libelous material multiple times, and subjective synthesis of information. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and not your blog. Sources cannot be removed based on your subjective opinion of whether information is important, or how "scientific" a source is, or your biased opinion on noteworthiness of the subject's work. And I say it is biased because Xardwen has already engaged in forum shopping and has accused me of COI, and was thusly already resolved by administrators for being baseless. Meanwhile, he states he in the subject's "field" and the address associated with his account links to the San Francisco metropolitan area, in particular Berkeley. It is abundantly clear that he is somehow linked to the subject and has been obsessively editing the page to harass and malign them, which he has expressed himself "with savage delight". Hemelina is also a brand new account that is likely Xardwen's sockpuppet to further target this page, having just been created to install the same baseless claims and remove information. Xerxescience (talk) 04:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- To the extent that my actions have violated Wikipedia's rules: granted, and I aim to do better to avoid running afoul of them in future. I believe that my criticisms and concerns are valid even if I have crossed some lines, or had a bit too much fun at Mr. Al-Shayeb's expense. As I've said above, I would much prefer if someone else was doing this work instead of me- and yet here we are. Xardwen (talk) 00:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion. I'm not sure how to say this politely, but Wikipedia doesn't care about your personal opinion of an article subject and whether or not you believe they "deserve" an article on this project. None of your opinions are based in Wikipedia policy which, along with consensus, is how AFD discussions are closed. In this case, the standards for notability is WP:NACADEMIC and comments should be made in reference to whether or not this subject can be considered notable by this standard or, less likely, WP:GNG. Notability isn't determined based on editors' opinion, much less accusations against your fellow editors, but based on reliable, independent, secondary sources that provide SIGCOV. Some analysis of sources was done here and I thank you for that start. Those who disagree with the nominator's proposal would spend their time more productively by addressing their evaluation of sources or by finding better ones. It is also clear that none of you have participated in an AFD discussion because it helps the closer if you, except for the nominator, cast a bolded "vote" like Keep or Delete or Redirect. Assessing consensus isn't a vote count but some times when editors post long comments, like in this AFD, a bolded vote makes it obvious what outcome you want to happen. Here's hoping we get some participation from AFD regulars who could also offer a source assessment. Thank you.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:51, 17 September 2024 (UTC)- Keep - The article text demonstrates that the subject's research has had a significant impact in his scholarly discipline and beyond.
- Referenced articles state Al-Shayeb's role in having "led" / "helmed" (100+ year old magazine by the American Chemical Society) multiple major publications that have each received significant coverage, and cited by multiple reputable perspective pieces as having major impact or "shift our understanding" of how we think about viruses and other elements https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02975-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-0341-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-021-00574-z These discoveries are influential in the fields of microbiology and gene editing, as independently outlined by multiple different editors in the 2021 in science and 2022 in science pages, which highlighted major discoveries of the year. Several of these discoveries also have their own separate Wiki pages. Considering the Wiki reference search shows 3,090 results, and over 100 different news articles, I addressed only some concerns mentioned.
- As referred to above by @Pantrail, Al-shayeb's work on new CRISPR tools is discussed as the cutting edge of genetic engineering technology in the 2020 Nobel Prize lecture with Al-Shayeb credited by name, and in the 2024 book Superconvergence How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World By Jamie Metzl. To say "this person did not discover anything that significantly advanced the field, and to the extent that they did, they did not do so alone" is a fallacious and subjective view of science. By that standard, nobody qualifies since nobody does science alone. The article and sources state that he led the work, not that he or any scientist did it alone.
- Prestigious journals like the Nature Portfolio are known for their rigorous standards, only accepting "ground-breaking" research. These journals presumably similarly carefully select reviewers who are leading experts, and reviewing for said journals is a testament to the subject's significant authority and extensive record of impactful research in their discipline.
- The person has also had a substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity.
- The published work is in development by major companies demonstrating real-world impact beyond academia. The work on RNA-guided therapies highlights how the research has translated directly into medical innovation by multiple pharmaceutical companies. Recognition from mainstream sources like Forbes Magazine (from which there are at least 5 different articles on subject) and other outlets also indicates broad public and professional acknowledgment of his influence beyond the academic realm. This shows substantial impact in both the academic sphere and the wider industry. The nominator claimed Al-Shayeb has affiliation with the editorial board of Forbes Magazine or the Daily Californian multiple times now and suggested that it diminishes their credibility, but provided no evidence, or that this presumed affiliation led to the coverage. He also conveniently dismissed the outlets or sources curated by industry experts such as GEN, c&en, CRISPR Medicine, Nature Magazine News, Science Magazine News, Futurism (credibility), LiveScience (rated GREEN for its credibility and trustworthiness by NewsGuard) or the work in TechCrunch, The Independent that corroborate the same reporting that the nominator claimed to be "non-credible or sensationalistic"
- Xerxescience (talk) 07:01, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - The article text demonstrates that the subject's research has had a significant impact in his scholarly discipline and beyond.
- Jonathan Wayshak (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article and a WP:BEFORE search turns up no WP:SIGCOV in independent, secondary, reliable sources for this comic artist -- just WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS and WP:PRIMARYSOURCES. Thus the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NBIO; the subject also meets no criterion of WP:NARTIST. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Comics and animation. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep as per the deletion of Daniel Morcombe which did get undeleted. Kellpb93ke (talk) 16:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC) — Kellpb93ke (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
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- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- delete Poorly referenced. --Altenmann >talk 17:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Jonathan Wayshak is a primary subject in the MTV News, Juxtapoz, and Fangoria, and more cited in the article. He has illustrated posters for Beetlejuice, and comics for DC, Halo, etc. Hexatekin (talk) 04:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Are we looking at the same sources?
- The MTV source is a WP:INTERVIEW and as a WP:PRIMARYSOURCE cannot contribute to notability.
- The Juxtapoz source has a single WP:TRIVIALMENTION of Wayshak's name.
- Fangoria has a single paragraph discussing a poster Wayshak illustrated, most of it consisting of a quote from Wayshak.
- None of these are WP:SIGCOV to qualify toward notability. And it's a complete red herring to say "he has illustrated posters...and comics." That doesn't establish notability at all. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Are we looking at the same sources?
- Delete Per source analysis below. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:00, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- KEEP: Wayshak is well-known in the comic book/graphic novel world. I have added reviews from a number of sources within that world, which I would suggest indicates some notability. Guinness323 (talk) 06:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- I added the sources to the assessment table above. They don't show WP:SIGCOV, except for sources that fail the test of independence or reliability. The closest they get is a claim of notability under WP:NARTIST, but that's only if you interpret a single comic book issue with two reviews as "a significant or well-known work or collective body of work." While the guideline does not describe comic books, it does generally exclude notability for individual works that are serial installments of a longer series (e.g. a TV show episode) and applying that principle to comic books would exclude this principle here. Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:31, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep based on sources added by Guinness323. BOZ (talk) 11:57, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, the save goes to Guinness323. Not a field I excel in but if the artist is well-known within it then notability becomes evident. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - the article has improved with the new sources; was there really a WP:BEFORE? Tduk (talk) 16:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Tduk, indeed there was. Read the source table. The sources added to the article do not support notability. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - based on the source analysis above and a BEFORE search. It is WP:TOOSOON for this artist, perhaps in a few more years there will be enough significant coverage in reliable sources that are fully independent of the subject to support an encyclopedia article. Being "well known" or having career success or "fame" is not the same as encyclopedic notability; this is not a reflection on the artist or their work, but simply a reality of WP's guidelines that have been crafted through consensus over a period of years. The article fails WP:NARTIST and WP:GNG at this time. Netherzone (talk) 02:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Source analysis appears to favor delete. The keep !voters need to remember that it is not a vote and would be advised to respond objectively and factually to source analysis.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 16:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - per the source analysis, there aren't any reliable, independent sources with enough WP:SIGCOV to favour an article at the moment. I agree it may be a case of WP:TOOSOON, but for the time being, the article fails WP:ARTIST and WP:GNG. DesiMoore (talk) 20:00, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . Liz Read! Talk! 03:44, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Brenda Schad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject fails WP:GNG for not having significant coverage from independent, reliable sources. COI history doesn't help either. Gheus (talk) 01:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: From the article: "Brenda and Jeannine McCann co-founded the company Tribe of Two". So all those references are primary sources, too. signed, Willondon (talk) 01:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:03, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Delete: I agree, there doesn't seem to be any significant coverage from secondary sources. signed, Willondon (talk) 00:41, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- Jim Bray (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NACTOR because he’s only appeared in one film. The Film Creator (talk) 22:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete – not at all relevant or useful, low quality article. Alon9393 (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Unable to find any WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR is not met here either. Let'srun (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not going to !vote, but I must add that I saw the solo film he starred in and it’s gloriously bad, a true bomb that is a cult classic. Bearian (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - @Let'srun - A very simple Google search shows multiple scans of articles that were written about him. What kind of search were you doing that missed all of those? See: 1, 2 and 3. KatoKungLee (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:04, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Johnathan Davis (businessman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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All the references listed are about businesses and organizations that they were apart of and not about the person themselves and I can't find any other coverage about them. Does not pass WP:NBUSINESSPERSON or WP:ANYBIO. Propose to redirect to Newsweek. cyberdog958Talk 23:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, News media, and Business. cyberdog958Talk 23:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
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- Keep. The reference Meet The Mysterious Duo Who Just Bought Newsweek is a profile of Davis, as is Faith and a media icon: Newsweek's unconventional new owners (which is characterized here as "a lengthy profile of IBT founder Johnathan Davis". --The Cunctator (talk) 13:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t think I would consider this source a
profile of Davis
as it’s more about his business partners along with most of the other references on the page. The second source is more promising but I don’t think that one source is enough to satisfy WP:SIGCOV. cyberdog958Talk 19:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)- Significant coverage "addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. But if we want to change the goalposts, go forth. --The Cunctator (talk) 13:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t think I would consider this source a
- Redirect to Newsweek, and add in there anything that seems vital. I don't see enough independent sources for GNG and I don't think we can rely primarily on Newsweek itself as a source. If, in the future, there is more written about him then an article would make sense. Lamona (talk) 05:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Newsweek, and possibly a selective merge. There’s just not enough coverage in sources independent of him, about him, except for a couple of stories about lawsuits he’s been involved with. Bearian (talk) 01:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Driftwood Cottage (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:GNG and insufficient to be presumed notable by WP:NGEO. Suggesting redirect to George W. Reamer#Professional background Jean Arthur#Driftwood Cottage, which has been done twice by two separate editors but being objected by an editor. Graywalls (talk) 03:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Japan, and California. Graywalls (talk) 03:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Strikes me as notable - I performed a quick search for citations and added a couple books which mention the subject. I may also send an email to the Monterey County Historical Society to see what resources they have should this article be kept (and welcome anyone else doing so). DCsansei (talk) 08:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- On an aside, was this listed as "Japan" simply because of the garden or is there a further connection? DCsansei (talk) 08:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @DCsansei:, by "mention" is it significant coverage? Reference bombing with "mentions" can't compensate for lack of in-depth significant coverage. It's just like if a really large slab of wood is sought after, a whole bunch of wood chips won't substitute it and that's basically what packing together a bunch of sources with a mere mention is attempting to do. I put it in Japan category based on "Architectural style(s) Japanese architecture". Graywalls (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- On an aside, was this listed as "Japan" simply because of the garden or is there a further connection? DCsansei (talk) 08:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment buildings that would otherwise not be notable often become so because of previous occupants. This of course will immediately trigger the knee-jerk reaction about the essay WP:INHERIT (which has tons of qualifiers and warnings about usage). We have many examples of buildings that became notable because of previous occupants, for example Bron-Yr-Aur, "best known for its association with the English rock band Led Zeppelin". The place and the people who lived there become "associated" ie. the place is famous because of the famous people associated with it. This of course needs to be backed up with sources, which is why INHERIT does not apply, so long as there are sources, there is nothing wrong with a place made famous by famous residents. -- GreenC 14:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to
George W. Reamer (the builder/architect who is notable) or alternativelyto Jean Arthur#Driftwood Cottage a notable actress who lived in the house for a while and apparently did a lot of entertaining there. I gave the subject of this AfD a lot of thought before coming here to !vote. The house itself is not notable, the sources describe it in relation to the Reamer or Arthur. I'm sure it is or was a very nice house with a beautiful view, there are a lot of nice homes for wealthy Californians in Carmel – this one is not wiki-notable. It's one of scores California "celebrity homes" (WP:MILL). It is not on the NRHP or even the state registry (neither of which would confer an "instant" notability pass anyways). There are a few claims in the article that I have been unable verify in the sources. Netherzone (talk) 13:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)- Celebrities need to live somewhere, so you are right there are probably many in CA. More important is if reliable sources talk about it, is how notability is assessed. -- GreenC 04:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: If this building is deemed not notable enough for its own article, there's actually a section dedicated to it at Jean Arthur#Driftwood Cottage, which might be a suitable merge or redirect target. Left guide (talk) 06:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to an appropriate target. Not enough coverage. Bearian (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to explain situation with redirects. Almost all of the content was removed from George W. Reamer and then it was converted to a Redirect so that is not a viable target article. It should appear as a green link.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Moon Kim (poker player) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Not relevant at the moment. Alon9393 (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep The winner of one of the most prestigious poker tournaments on the WPT tour. PsychoticIncall (talk) 12:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete does not provide enough independent, verifiable sources that demonstrate his long-term notability in the poker community --Moarnighar (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Is there an appropriate target article this one could be Redirected to? Liz Read! Talk! 05:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Liz I'm not seeing any possible ATD. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:00, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 18:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Flora Plumb (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NACTOR with no major credits. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, and United States of America. CptViraj (talk) 00:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: her career as theater actress and educator seems rather notable and her contributions to TV series/film might be seen as prolific. I haven’t searched for better sources so this is a weak keep. Would a redirect to the Personal life section in the article about her sister be an acceptable ATD? -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre, Education, and California. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Rebuttal. "Prolific"? Single TV episodes in about 20 shows and 6th billing in a film nobody's heard of denote a journeyperson actor. And being a high school teacher doesn't make her a notable educator. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- "
a film nobody's heard of
".....Except the critic from the LAT, for example. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- "
- Okay, practically nobody's heard of. In any case, not a major film, and NACTOR asks for multiple notable films. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Rebuttal. "Prolific"? Single TV episodes in about 20 shows and 6th billing in a film nobody's heard of denote a journeyperson actor. And being a high school teacher doesn't make her a notable educator. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 01:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 01:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete In searching newspapers I find her named in places like TV listings. These attest to the fact that she appeared on the named TV shows but those short sentences or two are about the plot and her character, not about her. These could be useful in recreating her career if there were also 2 or more substantial articles about her and in reliable sources. This I do not find. The sources given here are two short obits, an article saying that she won a student award (not notable), and a paragraph in a newspaper naming some roles she had in minor productions. I don't find anything longer than a paragraph, and nothing in major news sources. I can't find that she won a major award. I'll swing back by to check on progress, if there is any. Lamona (talk) 02:54, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sherry Gong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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It looks far WP:TOOSOON for WP:NPROF notability for this 2018 PhD and assistant professor with a handful of citations. A prize for undergraduate work does not grant notability, nor does the CAREER grant. Performance on the IMO might tend to meet GNG, if it were widely covered by reliable independent sources, but about all I found was a passing mention in Wired. [11] Recently deleted by PROD and undeleted by request on WP:RFU. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 08:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators and Mathematics. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 08:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. No evidence yet of significant achievement WP:Too soon. Xxanthippe (talk) 09:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC).
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Canada, Puerto Rico, California, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, and Texas. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I'm very much in favor of showcasing accomplished women in mathematics, but the pedestal needs to be something they are already standing on, not something we place in front of them as an obstacle to trip over. She has not yet had the impact in post-student research needed for WP:PROF; although people at this point in their career can sometimes pass, doing so typically takes work with extraordinary impact and major prizes. Instead she is on a promising academic career track and if she keeps it up I would expect her to pass WP:PROF eventually, but eventually is not now. That leaves the IMO accomplishments and Schafer prize, which are separate enough to save the article from WP:BIO1E but would require in-depth coverage of her accomplishments in independent media for WP:GNG-based notability. I don't see that independent coverage. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Sadly, I agree with all of the above. Like virtually all assistant professors, this is WP:TOOSOON.Qflib (talk) 20:10, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete After an unsuccessful search for independent news coverage, I have to agree with the delete !votes. Spacepine (talk) 02:31, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as David Eppstein notes she has IMO accomplishments which don't have in-depth coverage but do have a couple of sentences in three reliable secondary sources. Agree she doesn't have enough yet for WP:PROF but may for WP:GNG depending how notable the math olympiad accomplishments are. Nnev66 (talk) 17:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- GNG is not about significance of accomplishments at all. It is about coverage of those accomplishments in multiple reliable sources, each published independently of the article subject and the events they describe, and with in-depth coverage of the article subject. What sources do you think contribute towards that criterion? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- These are the two I was thinking of. I found a third but didn’t add it to the page because I wasn’t sure it would matter. Nnev66 (talk) 00:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- Update: I saw someone added a NYTimes reference which I added to my list below. I changed my recommendation from “Weak keep” to “Keep”. There has been much better sourcing since the beginning of this discussion so I encourage folks who voted earlier to have another look. Nnev66 (talk) 15:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- Here is the entirety of the coverage in the NYTimes about Gong, a sentence only half about her: "Since then, two female high school students, Alison Miller, from upstate New York, and Sherry Gong, whose parents emigrated to the United States from China, have made the United States team (they both won gold)." That is definitely not an in-depth source in the sense required by GNG. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- There’s a second sentence later on: “Ms. Miller, who is 22 and recently graduated from Harvard, and Ms. Gong, 19 and a Harvard sophomore, both cite Ms. Wood as their role model.” I had noted earlier that none of the references I found have more than two sentences about Gong - you had asked me to list the reliable secondary sources so I did. My original question was whether IMO achievements are notable - they have been covered in top sources. Nnev66 (talk) 19:44, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- "Notable", in the context of an AfD, means that there exist reliable sources with significant coverage of the subject, not merely that "they have been covered in top sources". So you found a second half-sentence in one source; two half-sentences is still not significant coverage. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:57, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- These four references have more coverage of the subject. Three were written to highlight winning the Alice T. Schafer Prize. Nnev66 (talk) 21:42, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Timmerman, Michelle B. (December 10, 2010). "Sherry Gong". The Harvard Crimson.
- "Sherry Gong named Clay Olympiad Scholar". Clay Mathematics Institute. June 27, 2005. Archived from the original on 2012-05-11.
- "Alice T. Schafer Prize for Excellence in Mathematics by an Undergraduate Woman 2011". awm-math.org. Association for Women in Mathematics.
- "Math In The News | Sherry Gong Receives 2011 Alice T. Schafer Prize". Mathdl.maa.org. Mathematical Association of America. 2011-01-14. Archived from the original on 2012-03-08.
- Nnev66 (talk) 21:42, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- These four references have more coverage of the subject. Three were written to highlight winning the Alice T. Schafer Prize. Nnev66 (talk) 21:42, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Notable", in the context of an AfD, means that there exist reliable sources with significant coverage of the subject, not merely that "they have been covered in top sources". So you found a second half-sentence in one source; two half-sentences is still not significant coverage. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:57, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- There’s a second sentence later on: “Ms. Miller, who is 22 and recently graduated from Harvard, and Ms. Gong, 19 and a Harvard sophomore, both cite Ms. Wood as their role model.” I had noted earlier that none of the references I found have more than two sentences about Gong - you had asked me to list the reliable secondary sources so I did. My original question was whether IMO achievements are notable - they have been covered in top sources. Nnev66 (talk) 19:44, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- Here is the entirety of the coverage in the NYTimes about Gong, a sentence only half about her: "Since then, two female high school students, Alison Miller, from upstate New York, and Sherry Gong, whose parents emigrated to the United States from China, have made the United States team (they both won gold)." That is definitely not an in-depth source in the sense required by GNG. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- McGuire, Annie; Collins, Donald (24 July 2002). "Mind-boggling games as the whiz-kids limber up for Glasgow Maths Olympiad". The Herald. ProQuest 332893451.
- "Rising Stars". Science. 317 (5842): 1153. 31 August 2007. doi:10.1126/science.317.5842.1153c.
- Rimer, Sara (10 October 2008). "Math Skills Suffer in U.S., Study Finds". The New York Times.
- Nnev66 (talk) 00:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- A coverage in Chinese media was added.
- "美国华裔女孩5次参加国际数学奥赛3次拿奖". news.sohu.com, 2007-08-12.
- 24.107.3.211 (talk) 05:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- — 24.107.3.211 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Qflib (talk) 21:15, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, This is Sherry Gong's mother. I saw your discussion about media coverage of Sherry Gong. I will not vote because of the conflict of interest, but I would like to contribute some information about in depth coverage about her that was in independent media in Puerto Rico, specifically, El Nuevo Dia (Puerto Rico's most circulated newspaper, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Nuevo_D%C3%ADa) and The San Juan Star (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_San_Juan_Daily_Star).
- This coverage haven't been put online, but I have photos of the articles:
- 1. August 2, 2001: El Nueva Dia, page 22. See
- https://ibb.co/FqhjzCX
- 2. August 3, 2001: El Nueva Dia, page 3. See
- https://ibb.co/qMDPKGd
- 3. August 5, 2001: The San Juan Star, page 10. See
- https://ibb.co/Jmd7Spn
- 4. September 16, 2003: El Nueva Dia, page 78. See
- https://ibb.co/TH0N4Nz Sanjuanli (talk) 23:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- A coverage in Chinese media was added.
- GNG is not about significance of accomplishments at all. It is about coverage of those accomplishments in multiple reliable sources, each published independently of the article subject and the events they describe, and with in-depth coverage of the article subject. What sources do you think contribute towards that criterion? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Welcome to Sherry Gong's mother. I hope she will become a regular contributor to Wikipedia. Unfortunately the only link of hers that I have been get to looks just like local Churnalism and is not enough to pass GNG. Of course, it is accepted by editors here that WP:Prof is failed. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC).
- I disagree. Not of welcoming Sherry Gong's mother and hoping she contributes to Wikipedia as I agree with that. But The San Juan Star article does not read like churnalism to me. The story has a human interest angle but it's written by a reporter who used to work for the Associated Press and provides significant coverage of Gong winning a silver medal at the IMO at age 11 when she was on the Puerto Rican team. It adds to the other IMO coverage of Gong. Nnev66 (talk) 02:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the comments. San Juan Star article is about Sherry got Silver medal and a Special Award for Original Solution at 2001 Math Olympiads for Central American & Caribbean, not for IMO. There is an article on El Nueva Dia talking about Sherry got Bronze medal on IMO 2003. Sanjuanli (talk) 21:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the welcome and comments. I don't know which page you can not see. So I post them from another site. (El Nuevo Dia is considered Puerto Rico's newspaper of record.)
- It seems I can not post here--so I post them in the Talk page. Sanjuanli (talk) 22:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree. Not of welcoming Sherry Gong's mother and hoping she contributes to Wikipedia as I agree with that. But The San Juan Star article does not read like churnalism to me. The story has a human interest angle but it's written by a reporter who used to work for the Associated Press and provides significant coverage of Gong winning a silver medal at the IMO at age 11 when she was on the Puerto Rican team. It adds to the other IMO coverage of Gong. Nnev66 (talk) 02:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Welcome to Sherry Gong's mother. I hope she will become a regular contributor to Wikipedia. Unfortunately the only link of hers that I have been get to looks just like local Churnalism and is not enough to pass GNG. Of course, it is accepted by editors here that WP:Prof is failed. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC).
- Keep. Gong is the only U.S. woman who won medals in both IMO and IPhO. This achievement qualifies her for a page. Significant improvements have been made on the page. The sections about IMO performance and coaching are rewritten with more details and independent references included. In the career section, Gong's notable contributions to mathematical research are included too. 128.252.229.153 (talk) 18:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The research contributions are far too early in the subject's career to meet any of the eight criteria described in WP:NPROF. It's virtually impossible for an assistant professor to meet that standard and so WP:GNG is the only possibility. Qflib (talk) 20:58, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- — 128.252.229.153 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Qflib (talk) 21:16, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- KEEP Just add my two cents to this debate. I think Sherry Gong can be truthfully characterized as a rising star who is known for her exceptional contributions to the mathematical community, particularly in inspiring and supporting young women in mathematics. Alongside Melanie Wood and Allison Miller, Sherry is one of the few female students to have represented the USA in the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) before 2024. Her accolades include one gold, two silver, and one bronze medal at the IMO, along with a silver medal at the International Physics Olympiad (IPhO). Since then, she has been instrumental in training and mentoring female students for the International Math Olympiads, the European Girls’ Math Olympiad (EGMO) and the China Girls Math Olympiad (CGMO). Her efforts have made a significant impact on the next generation of young women in mathematics. Her success has been covered by prominent media outlets in both the USA and China, including The New York Times, The Atlantic, the Herald (Glasgow), Science, and Sohu.
- In short, I think what distinguishes Sherry from other rising stars is that she serves as a role model for American female students pursuing careers in mathematics and science. From this perspective, her impact on the mathematics community is in fact long-lasting. 67.252.7.30 (talk) 23:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- You need sources to support those claims. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC).
- Thanks for the comment! Here are the sources. Some may be duplicating what was already mentioned above. Sherry may not be at the spot light of the coverage, but the importance of her role should be evident.
- https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/education/10math.html (NY Times)
- https://www.imo-official.org/participant_r.aspx?id=7209 (IMO record)
- https://www.aapt.org/olympiad2006/ (IPhO record)
- https://www.ams.org/news?news_id=836 (assistant coach)
- https://www.egmo.org/people/person110/ (Leader, Deputy Leader)
- https://www.myscience.org/news/wire/cmu_hosts_new_math_camp_for_high_school_girls-2022-cmu (math camp coach)
- https://www.news-gazette.com/wkio/vipology-single/html_9787332c-8a77-11ec-84d7-235488f5ac90.html?id=114973&category=girl-power (math camp coach)
- https://www.g2mathprogram.org/staff (G2 program for female students)
- https://math.virginia.edu/2019/09/sherry-gong-lunch/ (AWM meeting) 67.252.7.30 (talk) 16:00, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- A chat over sandwiches is not a significant event in the life of an academic. Any time a scientist from another school comes to my university to present a colloquium talk for the physics department, we take them to lunch, and we invite students so they can have a casual conversation with the visitor. Talking up the importance of an event like that does Gong no favors. Indeed, it makes it sound like she is being hyped up by a public-relations crew that has no understanding of mathematics. The G2 website is not an independent source. Anybody can put up a website and say things about themselves. Who, other than the G2 program, has written about the G2 program? Likewise, the "myscience.org" item is just a press release, a type of source that does us basically no good whatsoever, and on top of that, it doesn't even give Gong a single full sentence. The "news-gazette.com" page is even worse: it's a recycled press release, just scraped and churned so they can have some text on their website. I'm all for
showcasing accomplished women in mathematics
, as David Eppstein put it above, but all we've got right now is fluff. XOR'easter (talk) 19:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)- It is true that we frequently take colloquium speakers to lunch. But it is rare that we invite a speaker for the purpose of meeting with students. This occurs only when the speaker has something exceptional that would benefit the students. Is it not so? 67.252.7.30 (talk) 14:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Although such things are very nice, they are almost never notable - and I've been invited to speak at universities for the sole purpose of meeting with students myself, and I am not notable. The only thing that would make it notable would be if it was covered by multiple independent, mainstream sources. So if the Boston Herald and the New York Times covered the colloquium event with focused articles on the colloquium then I'd agree that it was significant, but this is not the case. Please see WP:N.
- Incidentally, can you please explain what you mean by "we?" Do you have a connection to the subject of the article? Qflib (talk) 15:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- It is true that we frequently take colloquium speakers to lunch. But it is rare that we invite a speaker for the purpose of meeting with students. This occurs only when the speaker has something exceptional that would benefit the students. Is it not so? 67.252.7.30 (talk) 14:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- A chat over sandwiches is not a significant event in the life of an academic. Any time a scientist from another school comes to my university to present a colloquium talk for the physics department, we take them to lunch, and we invite students so they can have a casual conversation with the visitor. Talking up the importance of an event like that does Gong no favors. Indeed, it makes it sound like she is being hyped up by a public-relations crew that has no understanding of mathematics. The G2 website is not an independent source. Anybody can put up a website and say things about themselves. Who, other than the G2 program, has written about the G2 program? Likewise, the "myscience.org" item is just a press release, a type of source that does us basically no good whatsoever, and on top of that, it doesn't even give Gong a single full sentence. The "news-gazette.com" page is even worse: it's a recycled press release, just scraped and churned so they can have some text on their website. I'm all for
- — 67.252.7.30 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Qflib (talk) 21:16, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- You need sources to support those claims. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC).
- Note: 128.194.2.54 has made few or no other edits other than to initiate a WP:PROD for Sherry Gong which led to this AfD discussion. The IP address is associated with Texas A&M University where the subject of the article is currently a professor. How much if at all does this matter? Nnev66 (talk) 21:04, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have little enough to do with Texas A&M, and made my own independent assessment of notability before this nomination, which I take responsibility for. The answer to your question is "not at all" -- even if the IP was a banned user, WP:PROXYING would apply. I remain unconvinced that the series of passing mentions and non-independent coverage adds up to a pass of WP:BASIC. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for moving my comment to where you thought it should go as I wasn't sure and for your answer to my question. I would have thought The Harvard Crimson or Mathematical Association of America were independent of the subject but I assume because the subject attended Harvard and received medals in math competitions they are not orthogonal. What about the Mom's scans of articles from Puerto Rican newspapers? It would make sense that there would be more excitement about the subject in Puerto Rico as she was the first from there to win a medal. Unfortunately I couldn't find The San Juan Star article in newspapers.com or Proquest. As I re-read WP:BASIC, it seems to me that the mentions in The New York Times, The Atlantic, and Science (magazine) are more than trivial. It's true there's no in-depth coverage but they are more than trivial in-passing mentions but rather acknowledgments of accomplishment at the International Math Olympiad. Nnev66 (talk) 13:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Local news coverage celebrating a local person's achievements, however admirable, is not enough for WP:NOTABLE. Also see WP:SUSTAINED. "Brief bursts of news coverage may not sufficiently demonstrate notability." Qflib (talk) 22:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for moving my comment to where you thought it should go as I wasn't sure and for your answer to my question. I would have thought The Harvard Crimson or Mathematical Association of America were independent of the subject but I assume because the subject attended Harvard and received medals in math competitions they are not orthogonal. What about the Mom's scans of articles from Puerto Rican newspapers? It would make sense that there would be more excitement about the subject in Puerto Rico as she was the first from there to win a medal. Unfortunately I couldn't find The San Juan Star article in newspapers.com or Proquest. As I re-read WP:BASIC, it seems to me that the mentions in The New York Times, The Atlantic, and Science (magazine) are more than trivial. It's true there's no in-depth coverage but they are more than trivial in-passing mentions but rather acknowledgments of accomplishment at the International Math Olympiad. Nnev66 (talk) 13:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have little enough to do with Texas A&M, and made my own independent assessment of notability before this nomination, which I take responsibility for. The answer to your question is "not at all" -- even if the IP was a banned user, WP:PROXYING would apply. I remain unconvinced that the series of passing mentions and non-independent coverage adds up to a pass of WP:BASIC. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
KeepWeak keep Per meeting criteria #2 of WP:NPROF. CaptainAngus (talk) 23:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)- WP:NPROF#C2 explicitly excludes student awards, even at the graduate school level. See the specific criteria notes, 2c. The only awards here are at the high school (IMO) and undergraduate (Schafer) levels. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, didn't catch that. I changed my reco to weak keep, under criteria #7 of WP:NPROF, in that her unique achievement of winning both IMO and IPhO. CaptainAngus (talk) 04:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- You know that these gold medals are not "winning", right? There were for instance 58 gold medalists at the 2024 IMO. Also, that is not even close to the purpose of PROF#C7, which is about making research contributions that have a significant impact on society, or being famous as a leading expert on some topic, not about achieving a good score in a high school competition. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- I saw you add the [failed verification] after "tying for seventh place out of 536 participants"
- This fact is showed in reference [4]
- https://www.imo-official.org/participant_r.aspx?id=7209
- In year 2007 of the above reference, it shows that her score was 32, rank 7, and relative 98.84%
- Could you please add reference [4] at the place? Thank you. Sanjuanli (talk) 05:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- You are interpreting my [failed verification] tag incorrectly, despite the tag having a clearly stated rationale. It was entirely about the fact that, at the time I added the tag, the article claimed that she was one of four female US participants based on a source that listed three female US medalists, also, no, I will not participate in refbombing the article with tiny minutiae based on sources that have no depth of coverage of the subject. That is neither the way to build a Wikipedia article of any quality nor to find notability for the subject. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I had removed @David Eppstein's [failed verification] tag when I found a journal article on "The Gender Gap in Secondary School Mathematics at High Achievement Levels" reference which noted only three girls had participated on US teams in IMO (as of 2010) and re-wrote sentences to match sources. I was the one who moved the [failed verification] to the line about tying for seventh place out of 536 participants as this is not mentioned in the reference next to this line. Since reference [4] is already used in the article and it supports rank 7, score 32 I went ahead and added it at the end of the line. Since the source was already used once in the article I figured it was OK to use it again as it wasn't adding to the already long list of references that don't add to notability on their own and make it harder for editors to evaluate the article. Nnev66 (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- This discussion belongs on the article talk page and not on this AfD, right? Qflib (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I had removed @David Eppstein's [failed verification] tag when I found a journal article on "The Gender Gap in Secondary School Mathematics at High Achievement Levels" reference which noted only three girls had participated on US teams in IMO (as of 2010) and re-wrote sentences to match sources. I was the one who moved the [failed verification] to the line about tying for seventh place out of 536 participants as this is not mentioned in the reference next to this line. Since reference [4] is already used in the article and it supports rank 7, score 32 I went ahead and added it at the end of the line. Since the source was already used once in the article I figured it was OK to use it again as it wasn't adding to the already long list of references that don't add to notability on their own and make it harder for editors to evaluate the article. Nnev66 (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- You are interpreting my [failed verification] tag incorrectly, despite the tag having a clearly stated rationale. It was entirely about the fact that, at the time I added the tag, the article claimed that she was one of four female US participants based on a source that listed three female US medalists, also, no, I will not participate in refbombing the article with tiny minutiae based on sources that have no depth of coverage of the subject. That is neither the way to build a Wikipedia article of any quality nor to find notability for the subject. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- You know that these gold medals are not "winning", right? There were for instance 58 gold medalists at the 2024 IMO. Also, that is not even close to the purpose of PROF#C7, which is about making research contributions that have a significant impact on society, or being famous as a leading expert on some topic, not about achieving a good score in a high school competition. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, didn't catch that. I changed my reco to weak keep, under criteria #7 of WP:NPROF, in that her unique achievement of winning both IMO and IPhO. CaptainAngus (talk) 04:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 13:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- (Weak) Keep - good arguments on both sides. There's a bit of too-soon/one-more-coverage-needed, but there's also more risk to learning and to the encyclopedia if we delete and we have missed a source. The Math DL/Math in the News coverage ended up being the tipping point for me to move from weak delete to weak keep. We have one math organization covering with a full article an award given by a different math organization. This meets my (and I think WP's) definition of a significant prize, and not a run-of-the-mill student award. That plus the notability-from-one-thousand small articles is a keep for me. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 20:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per the nominator and David Epstein. jraimbau (talk) 14:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I feel that some alternative to deletion is merited here. Perhaps merge/redirect to International Mathematical Olympiad#History, as the subject's historic performance there is noteworthy for the event. Alternatively, move to draft iff there is reason to believe that further information can be developed supporting article-worthiness. BD2412 T 21:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'd support a redirect / lightly merge outcome, perhaps to the "Gender gap" section of the International Mathematics Olympiad article. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 21:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete in agreement with David Eppstein's comments. She seems to be a very good mathematician, perhaps in the future a wikipage will be more suitable. Gumshoe2 (talk) 01:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, reluctantly. I have kept coming back to this AfD since it started. For certain she appears to be a rising star, but that is not the same as a NPROF notable academic. I don't see a redirect to International Mathematics Olympiad working as there already are quite a few women there, but I won't oppose that if someone adds content and does it after the delete. While she does have supporting articles about her achievements to date, I don't think they are enough. She is young, I expect her to have done enough in a few years. As always, Wikipedia is a trailing indicator, so it has to be deleted for now. Ldm1954 (talk) 03:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: In the anticipation of a possible merge/redirect ATD closure, I invite interested editors to add sourced mentions of Sherry Gong to articles such as those mentioned above, so that we have a redirect target.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I have to agree with the comments above that although she has the potential to be notable in the future she is not there yet. Athel cb (talk) 16:03, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. As a winner of the Alice T. Schafer Prize for Mathematics, Gong meets Criterion 2 of WP:NPROF. Since she only has to meet one criterion, I think this establishes her notability.DesiMoore (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Criterion 2 of NPROF very explicitly excludes student awards. She does not meet this criterion. Please read the guidelines you link to before making comments that make it obvious you have not read them. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- As David Eppstein just said, she does not meet Wikipedia:Notability (academics). Qflib (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect proposal. In response to Sandstein's relisting comment, I suggest adding the following as the 2nd paragraph under the Gender Gap section of the International Mathematical Olympiad article. "In the United States, the first female student to take part was Melanie Wood, who first competed in 1998. She was followed a few years later by Alison Miller and Sherry Gong." Could be sourced to NYTimes [12]. Might be worthwhile being a little more specific with dates on Alison Miller and Sherry Gong, if we could do so sticking to general secondary sources. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 08:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hang on, User:Russ Woodroofe. You can't vote again in the AFD you created. If your opinion has changed, strike the original, or add something at the top instead. Nfitz (talk) 18:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Russ didn't "vote" again. He was responding to Sandstein's request for recommendations. And even the keep/delete contributions aren't votes - they are recommendations. Qflib (talk) 20:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- As Qflib says, I am certainly not trying to !vote again. I have indicated above that I am supportive of alternatives to deletion (which are always to be looked for), and I was fleshing out what these might look like, in response to a direct question. I otherwise stand by my nomination -- we have a very early career assistant professor, with some high school para-WP:YOUNGATH coverage. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 21:45, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Russ didn't "vote" again. He was responding to Sandstein's request for recommendations. And even the keep/delete contributions aren't votes - they are recommendations. Qflib (talk) 20:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Keep NPROF isn't relevant here, there was more than enough suitable references in the article (and look at Proquest!) dated before they became a Prof. Also, why even mention NPROF when the article was created many years before she came a prof? The nomination is a BEFORE failure. Nfitz (talk) 18:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Proposed deletions
for occasional archiving