This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Lists of people. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Lists
Lists of people
Cubana Chief Priest
- Cubana Chief Priest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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An article that doesn't meet WP:ANYBIO, and WP:ENT. It is also good saving that "celebrities may be famous but not notable meeting WP:BASIC." Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 21:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Lists of people, Entertainment, Africa, and Nigeria. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 21:16, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Reliable coverage about an arrest, the rest are trivial coverage; sources 3 and 5 are point form lists or trivia items about this individual. I suppose he could a notable businessman, but the sourcing doesn't support notability. Doesn't pass criminal notability, I'm not sure what else is left for notability from these sources. I don't find anything extra we can use either. Oaktree b (talk) 23:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom and per User:Oaktree b. This subject fails WP:ANYBIO for lack of sustained in-depth coverage by reliable sources. JFHJr (㊟) 05:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I'm the original creator of the article. I understand that it was moved to the main space and subsequently nominated for deletion due to concerns about unreliable sources and notability. After reevaluating the content, I agree that the article relies heavily on unverifiable sources and fails to meet Wikipedia's standards for reliability. Therefore, I support the deletion of the article in its current form. I believe it's essential to prioritize accuracy and credibility in our content, and I'm willing to work on improving the article if feasible. However, in its current state, I think deletion is the best course of action. 2RDD (talk) 9:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Electoral firsts in Guernsey
- Electoral firsts in Guernsey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:GNG. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:28, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:28, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Politics, and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
List of Thai representatives at international male beauty pageants
- List of Thai representatives at international male beauty pageants (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page seems to be almost exclusively cited to a random Facebook fanpage "ThailandBeautyQueen" and is probably the WP:OR of the account who inserted the links in a series of November 2023 edits, subsequently blocked as a sockpuppet of User:Benebimo. There is no way to improve this without starting over with real sources, it should be WP:TNT. ☆ Bri (talk) 14:58, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Beauty pageants, and Thailand. Shellwood (talk) 16:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The main issue is whether this is a notable grouping that has been covered by independent reliable sources. Notwithstanding that, the entire page is just a table of plain information, which should be trivially verifiable. I don't see why this would fall into WP:TNT territory. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:14, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
List of Sports Illustrated writers
- List of Sports Illustrated writers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not just it is entirely unsourced, this does not meet the WP:LISTN as this grouping isn't discussed in non-primary sources. Definitely useful as a category than being a standalone list. SpacedFarmer (talk) 13:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, News media, and Lists. SpacedFarmer (talk) 13:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: This subject meets the WP:NLIST as the grouping has been discussed in several secondary sources, such as [[2]] and [[3]], along with several books about the magazine which discuss the writers. Let'srun (talk) 17:28, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Pretenders to the throne of Mexico
- Pretenders to the throne of Mexico (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Follow-up to c. 60 "Line of succession to the former X throne" precedents, almost all of which resulted in Delete. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pretenders to the throne of Parma. NLeeuw (talk) 12:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Royalty and nobility. NLeeuw (talk) 12:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
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Pretenders to the throne of Parma
- Pretenders to the throne of Parma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Follow-up to c. 60 "Line of succession to the former X throne" precedents, almost all of which resulted in Delete. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pretenders to the throne of Mexico. NLeeuw (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Royalty and nobility. NLeeuw (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Given that these lists of post-monarchy-abolition pretenders seem to continue to prop up – either as stand-alone lists or as (redirects to) sections in (otherwise fine) articles – and have so far only been taken down case by case, except through the more coordinated efforts of User:TompaDompa and a few others, perhaps it is time to develop and adopt some guideline about this? Like WP:NCROY, but then specifically for lists of pretenders to royal and noble titles of monarchies that no longer exist, or of clans that no longer make any claims to legitimacy to an extant throne (e.g. Jacobite succession)? This would WP:CENTRALise discussion and make future AfDs and cleanups a lot easier. I would suggest a shortcut like WP:PRETENDER, although I'm not sure which guideline would be the best place for it. NLeeuw (talk) 13:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, I'm guessing this is in reference to the 40 "Line of succession to the former throne of X" articles that were deleted back in 2020 (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40). TompaDompa (talk) 22:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @TompaDompa Yes it is. Thank you for establishing those precedents, and listing them clearly! I've added a lot of other article precedents and category precedents that I could find over here: User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Line of succession to the former X throne. NLeeuw (talk) 08:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, I'm guessing this is in reference to the 40 "Line of succession to the former throne of X" articles that were deleted back in 2020 (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40). TompaDompa (talk) 22:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and Italy. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:51, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
List of ESPN personalities
- List of ESPN personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not just it is entirely unsourced, this does not meet the WP:LISTN as this grouping isn't discussed in non-primary sources. Definitely useful as a category than being a standalone list. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Television, Sports, and Lists. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
List of ESPN Radio personalities
- List of ESPN Radio personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not just it is entirely unsourced, this does not meet the WP:LISTN as this grouping isn't discussed in non-primary sources. Definitely useful as a category than being a standalone list. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
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- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The personalities for ESPN radio are discussed in a multitide of sources, such as [[4]], [[5]], [[6]], and [[7]]. I'd say this meets the WP:NLIST. Let'srun (talk) 16:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- These links falls under WP:ROUTINE, more like another announcments of lineups. SpacedFarmer (talk) 22:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
List of past ESPN personalities
- List of past ESPN personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not just it is entirely unsourced, this does not meet the WP:LISTN as this grouping isn't discussed in non-primary sources. Definitely useful as a category than being a standalone list. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Television, Sports, and Lists. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: This group has been covered in secondary sources, such as [[8]], [[9]] and [[10]]. Let'srun (talk) 10:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- News articles of 'personalities' being laid off, just a small selection of this list. Doesn't have much relations with it though. SpacedFarmer (talk) 16:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not the entire grouping needs to be covered for WP:NLIST to be met. If you want a wider selection covered, there is [[11]]. Let'srun (talk) 17:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not forgetting alls under WP:ROUTINE. SpacedFarmer (talk) 22:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not the entire grouping needs to be covered for WP:NLIST to be met. If you want a wider selection covered, there is [[11]]. Let'srun (talk) 17:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- News articles of 'personalities' being laid off, just a small selection of this list. Doesn't have much relations with it though. SpacedFarmer (talk) 16:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to List of ESPN personalities. I agree with Let'srun that there are indeed sources to attribute to this, but the past can merge with the main article. No need to fork it. Conyo14 (talk) 16:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Per Let'srun. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:18, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Wives of Hussein of Jordan
- Wives of Hussein of Jordan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Content fork from Hussein of Jordan#Personal life. Details are already in other articles. Unnecessary duplication. DrKay (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Royalty and nobility, and Jordan. DrKay (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete I was prepared to give this article a chance the first time I saw it but there are serious issues in terms of the reliability of its content and the extent to which it has been copied from other articles. For example, the article contains this unsourced paragraph:
As known in popular culture: Sharifa Dina bint Abdul-Hamid, Princess Muna Al Hussein, Queen Alia al-Hussein, and Queen Noor of Jordan. A well-known saying for their experiences is: "Divorced, divorced, died; divorced, widowed." The epigram divorced, died, and widowed is widely known to scholars of Jordanian history, but there are a few historical nuances to consider.
This is a close copy of Wives of Henry VIII, which contains the following:A mnemonic device to remember the names of Henry's consorts is "Arrogant Boys Seem Clever, Howard Particularly," indicating their "last names," as known to popular culture: Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleves, Catherine Howard, Catherine Parr. A famous rhyme for their fates is: "Divorced, beheaded, died; Divorced, beheaded, survived." The epigram divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived is widely known to Anglophone students of world history but there are a few historical footnotes to consider.
This is a serious WP:OR issue on top of the equally serious WP:CONTENTFORK matter. Keivan.fTalk 07:26, 2 June 2024 (UTC) - Delete as WP:FORK and WP:OR, per DrKay and Keivan's arguments. Векочел (talk) 13:07, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
List of A.D. Isidro Metapan players
- List of A.D. Isidro Metapan players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:LISTN is not met here due to a lack of coverage of the subjects as a group. As it stands, this is an indiscriminate list of mostly non-notable people. Let'srun (talk) 03:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Lists of people, Sports, Football, Lists, and El Salvador. Let'srun (talk) 03:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 14:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It desperately needs an update, but this is another misuse of the term "indiscriminate" in a list deletion discussion - there is crystal clear inclusion criteria. SportingFlyer T·C 02:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yet this list only includes a self-selected number of players, many of whom have no article themselves, and has no sources discussing these players as a group. In my opinion, it is much more appropriate to have a category for the notable players who played here. Let'srun (talk) 17:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Which is fixable through editing, and nowhere in NLIST does it require sources to discuss the list as a group, since there are several valid reasons for creating lists. SportingFlyer T·C 18:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yet this list only includes a self-selected number of players, many of whom have no article themselves, and has no sources discussing these players as a group. In my opinion, it is much more appropriate to have a category for the notable players who played here. Let'srun (talk) 17:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete – a category for the players from this club is enough. Svartner (talk) 19:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
List of Saint George S.C. players
- List of Saint George S.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence this list of self-selected players meets the WP:LISTN. Let'srun (talk) 20:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Football, Lists, and Ethiopia. Let'srun (talk) 20:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete – Zero notability, a category for the players from this club is enough. Svartner (talk) 22:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 14:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This is the top football team in Ethiopia, and is well sourced. I fail to see why WP:LISTN doesn't apply here. SportingFlyer T·C 02:44, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep—I tend to agree with SportingFlyer. I'm not sure how this can be see has having "zero notability" if it is the best football team in Ethiopia. It is also universally discussed "as a group or set" by nature, working it into the threshold of WP:NLIST. I think this falls under WP:BIAS to a large degree, as well. Anwegmann (talk) 04:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
List of leaders of UNSW student organisations
- List of leaders of UNSW student organisations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NLIST, WP:NOTDATABASE, WP:GNG. 5225C (talk • contributions) 08:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Lists of people, Education, and Lists. 5225C (talk • contributions) 08:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete per nom, BEFORE does not show any possibility of content being suitable for inclusion elsewhere. Triptothecottage (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:NLIST. LibStar (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete many entries are unreferenced. Teraplane (talk) 02:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
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List of ESPNU personalities
- List of ESPNU personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This group does not have the requisite coverage in secondary sources as a group to meet the criteria established by WP:LISTN. Let'srun (talk) 02:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Television, Sports, and Lists. Let'srun (talk) 02:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to ESPNU as an WP:ATD. It serves as a WP:NAVIGATION, but there are no grouping sources for satisfying WP:LISTN. Conyo14 (talk) 18:52, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Merge to ESPNews per WP:ATD. A list that is useful being a category but not as a list, which is entirely unsourced. SpacedFarmer (talk) 21:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete unsourced and fails verification; a spot-check of articles linked (Joe Davis (sportscaster), Mike Crispino, Andy Katz) shows none of them mention ESPNU, just ESPN in general. The concept of being an "ESPNU personality" (separate from other ESPN brands) does not appear to exist. Walsh90210 (talk) 22:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
List of ESPNews personalities
- List of ESPNews personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject does not meet the WP:LISTN as this grouping isn't discussed in non-primary sources. Let'srun (talk) 02:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Television, Sports, and Lists. Let'srun (talk) 02:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
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- Merge to ESPNews. There are no grouping sources on the subject, but the WP:NAVIGATION purposes are still there, so the ATD is better at the main. Conyo14 (talk) 18:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Merge to ESPNews per WP:ATD. A list that is useful being a category but not as a list, which is entirely unsourced. SpacedFarmer (talk) 21:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or redirect to List of SportsCenter anchors and reporters; unsourced and the target articles generally describe people as SportsCenter hosts rather than being specifically associated with ESPNews. Walsh90210 (talk) 22:57, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Two different Merge target articles suggested here
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
List of formerly unidentified decedents
- List of formerly unidentified decedents (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fork of Unidentified decedent. Only page content, aside from list entries, is copied from Unidentified decedent. Would be better implemented as a category rather than WP:LISTCRUFT. jellyfish ✉ 18:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Crime. jellyfish ✉ 18:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Also, from previous nominations - it still fails WP:NLIST, per 4meter4's reasoning here. jellyfish ✉ 18:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per first AFD rationale. Also WP:SALT to prevent recreation. Fails WP:NLIST and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. This list is an original grouping that is never discussed collectively as a list in any sources; compiled through an original synthesis. This is essentially WP:LISTCRUFT. According to NAMUS's own statistics, law enforcement in the United States successfully identified 7,188 unidentified bodies in 2023 alone. That's just one nation. Being a formerly unidentified body is not unusual or encyclopedic.4meter4 (talk) 22:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- delete per above. I too can see having a category but as group they have little to do with one another. Mangoe (talk) 23:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - I think it's also worth looking at Talk:Unidentified decedent, particularly "Why ruin the page?" and "Lists of formerly unidentified decedents". Perhaps some of the more notable cases could be merged into Unidentified decedent#Notable cases, with a note that they were identified in such and such year (ex. Joseph Henry Loveless, Murder of Elizabeth Roberts, or Murder of Joseph Augustus Zarelli). However, most of this could really just be a category. jellyfish ✉ 01:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly oppose any such list at the Unidentified decedents article. The very reasons for deletion are the same reasons why an in-article list are inappropriate. You could try a category but I suspect that too would end up at WP:CFD as a non-encyclopedic cross categorization.4meter4 (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yep, you're right - category deleted at CfD. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 18:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly oppose any such list at the Unidentified decedents article. The very reasons for deletion are the same reasons why an in-article list are inappropriate. You could try a category but I suspect that too would end up at WP:CFD as a non-encyclopedic cross categorization.4meter4 (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Sadustu Tau (talk) 15:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Granted so much news stories of decade-old decedents being identified drowns them out, but I did find three sources that discuss them as a group as WP:NLIST requires in one of its scenarios ([12] [13] [14]) (or subsets at least: 1 is about unidentified indigenous people being identified with DNA; 2 is about forensic genealogy being used to identify murder victim bodies; and 3 is about unidentified 9/11 victims being identified). Overall, this passes WP:NLIST and is compliant with WP:NOTDIR and WP:NOR.
- While I can't dispute NAMUS' statement of thousands being identified in the US annually, it doesn't account for how many of them are notable (in fact, there are only 42 American ones on the list, which composes all of history) or even had been unidentified for so long, and if anything, it (and to a lesser extent the vast amount of news sources) possibly makes them a
culturally significant phenomenon
, so the topic doesn't violate WP:NOTDIR#3. Further, the list entries do not violate WP:SYNTH because each entry only requires one source to confirm that they were once unidentified but are now so. Also, WP:NLIST only discusses beingdiscussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources
as one of many reasons for counting, with consensus for cross-categorizations likes these being inconclusive, though my previous arguments lean towards keeping. - However, considering many of these were notable for being unidentified, we should at the least consider restricting the list to only those with articles and who went unidentified for some time (i.e. five years or a decade), and a merge might be considered given the list is a little bit small, but these are discussions for another time. ミラP@Miraclepine 21:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Miraclepine None of those sources are specifically about formerly unidentified decedents, or are necessarily reliable. All three are on related but different topics. The third source is targeted solely at 9/11 victims, which is a different much narrower topic. The second source is on forensic genealogy. It is also an opinion piece which means it can't be used as a source on wikipedia because it is unreliable. The first source is about DNA testing in the process of body identification, and while it mentions formerly identified people in passing, it does not address the subject directly and in detail, or discuss formerly unidentified people generally as a group. Additionally, the sources are entirely America-centric and do not look at the broader topic from a global perspective (and this is a global topic). None of them provide a list of formerly unidentified decedents, and none of them talk about formerly unidentified decedents from a big picture long term view. It's all a narrow viewpoint secondary to the main topic of each individual article, none of which primarily focus on formerly unidentified decedents. I'm still not seeing how this passes WP:NLIST and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. How is this not a "repository of loosely associated topics". The only thing unifying these people is that they were at one time an unidentified body; which as statistics have demonstrated, is not unusual. Do they really belong in a list together? Is this even encyclopedic? I also want to point out that we already deleted several lists of this kind because they were rife with WP:Original research with numerous entries added from law enforcement and the NAMUs websites (without any secondary sources) and self published crime enthusiast blogs; many of them with speculations and factual errors. It's been a nightmare cleaning up after the type editing these lists attract.4meter4 (talk) 23:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed with the analysis here. Reading over most of the articles in the list, I don't believe being unidentified is necessarily the thing that makes a lot of them notable - most often it's the murder or whatever led to their disappearance. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4: Granted, they’re on related but technically different subsets, but because of the subject matter, they still generally talked about human remains being formerly unidentified, enough to go beyond trivial coverage, so I feel it still applies in principle; also WP:SIGCOV says
Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material.
Also, not all op-eds are unreliable; WP:NEWSORG provides for rare scenarios for which op-eds are reliable, and the in this case op-ed written by a subject-matter expert, criminologist Nancy La Vigne, so I am inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt relative to a WP:EXPERTSPS. Further, I feel discounting the sourcing as being American-centric might amount to WP:ATA#Geographic scope. - With regards to NOTDIR, calling it a "repository of loosely associated topics" appears to be a stretch because they are in common an unidentified body, which while technically not uncommon, pales in comparison to, say, 3,279,857 deaths in the United States in 2023 (1 for every 745); hence it should be as encyclopedic as the list already at unidentified decedent. Also, OR/V issues are generally nothing restricting the list to only those with enwiki articles (45 out of thousands, if not millions), thus
fulfilling recognized [...] navigation [...] purposes
, can't solve. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)- That's a complete misread of WP:NLIST. NLIST specifically says we need to restrict lists to those where the targeted topic of the list " grouping or set in general has been discussed". If you can't find sources that talk about the concept of the list directly in a general way, that is exactly the kind of thing that indicates WP:NLIST is not met. Piecemeal, partial, and tangential coverage does not meet the NLIST guideline which requires broad overview sourcing on a given topic. Further, the lack of non-US coverage in the sourcing and in-article content in the text of the sources is very concerning for having a list with a global framework. For a global topic there needs to be sourcing written from a global paradigm; otherwise there will inevitably be an article rife with Wikipedia:Systemic bias due to issues of Wikipedia:Geographic imbalance. I don't think its possible with the current sourcing to create a global article that isn't inherently a WP:POV/WP:UNDUE violation due to being entirely created from only American-centric sources. But that doesn't matter anyway, because of the lack of direct coverage, which demonstrates a failure of WP:SIGCOV as well as WP:NLIST. 4meter4 (talk) 17:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4: Granted, they’re on related but technically different subsets, but because of the subject matter, they still generally talked about human remains being formerly unidentified, enough to go beyond trivial coverage, so I feel it still applies in principle; also WP:SIGCOV says
- Agreed with the analysis here. Reading over most of the articles in the list, I don't believe being unidentified is necessarily the thing that makes a lot of them notable - most often it's the murder or whatever led to their disappearance. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Miraclepine None of those sources are specifically about formerly unidentified decedents, or are necessarily reliable. All three are on related but different topics. The third source is targeted solely at 9/11 victims, which is a different much narrower topic. The second source is on forensic genealogy. It is also an opinion piece which means it can't be used as a source on wikipedia because it is unreliable. The first source is about DNA testing in the process of body identification, and while it mentions formerly identified people in passing, it does not address the subject directly and in detail, or discuss formerly unidentified people generally as a group. Additionally, the sources are entirely America-centric and do not look at the broader topic from a global perspective (and this is a global topic). None of them provide a list of formerly unidentified decedents, and none of them talk about formerly unidentified decedents from a big picture long term view. It's all a narrow viewpoint secondary to the main topic of each individual article, none of which primarily focus on formerly unidentified decedents. I'm still not seeing how this passes WP:NLIST and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. How is this not a "repository of loosely associated topics". The only thing unifying these people is that they were at one time an unidentified body; which as statistics have demonstrated, is not unusual. Do they really belong in a list together? Is this even encyclopedic? I also want to point out that we already deleted several lists of this kind because they were rife with WP:Original research with numerous entries added from law enforcement and the NAMUs websites (without any secondary sources) and self published crime enthusiast blogs; many of them with speculations and factual errors. It's been a nightmare cleaning up after the type editing these lists attract.4meter4 (talk) 23:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. This would work much better as a category, and the current list is too much of a WP:FORK of the main article. If a full list were included, it would go into the thousands. Bearian (talk) 15:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Bearian a full list would probably be in the millions or tens of millions. NAMUS has tracked close to 100,000 identifications of unidentified bodies since it was founded in 2003, and that is just bodies in the United States. If we were to include the entire globe, and go through law enforcement/hospital/government records globally over the last two hundred years the number would be many times that size.4meter4 (talk) 16:53, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Honestly, as far a category would go, I doubt it'd end up being anything more than a collection of redirects. Most of these people are notable solely for their death or murder. I can't link right now, but I did post it above - category was deleted for similar reasoning a few years ago. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Olympics on ABC commentators
- Olympics on ABC commentators (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to the most ardent fans. Fails WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. As with sources per WP:RS besides those unsourced and dead links, these consists of WP:PRIMARY, one being about one of its commentators and announcements, some being more deserving in an article about the coverage but not this list; barely much to help this list to assert notability. SpacedFarmer (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Olympics on NBC commentators SpacedFarmer (talk) 06:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Olympics, Lists, and United States of America. SpacedFarmer (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Found this [[15]] (1/3), [[16]] (2/3), [[17]] (3/3), but it appears to just republishing a press release. Probably should be a delete unless better sources can be found. Let'srun (talk) 20:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Sources are being added at this very moment. Thus, far sources for the 1976 Summer Olympics, the 1964 Winter Olympics, and the list of hosts that ABC utilized have been added. Also, a lead section has finally been added. This article should be at the very least, merged with the main ABC Olympic broadcasts as a secondary option. BornonJune8 (talk) 08:15, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Checked the new source: some of those are about the announcers, some are about the games itself, one is links to YouTube videos. In short, not helping much. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:25, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Delete there is a book on the subject within the ABC Olympic broadcasts article. Willing to change my !vote if sources from the time period are found. Conyo14 (talk) 16:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: "An article on a broadcaster should not list upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks, etc., although mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable." The editor that seems to be spending their entire time on wikipedia recently trying to remove pages on TV broadcasts should try reading the article which they cite, which I quoted from. These broadcast articles contain primarily historical information, they do not read like a TV guide "forthcoming Olympics broadcast on ABC on July 27 at 8pm", etc. would be a TV guide. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 20:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- WP:ITSUSEFUL applies. All this is, is a list of who presented who, so WP:LISTCRUFT applies. A merger would be better. SpacedFarmer (talk) 07:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: 55 sources added since nomination, WP:HEYMAN.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 19:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with ABC Olympic broadcasts: Subject does not have the needed coverage from secondary sources as a grouping to meet the WP:NLIST. Merge as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Just about all of the names of the commentators and what respective events that they worked on for each of ABC's Olympic broadcasts that have been listed are for the most part, accounted for reference/sourcing wise. There are now over 200 sources spanning from 1964-1988. Also, the article touches in depth, arguably two of the most significant or well known moments in ABC's Olympic history, Jim McKay's reporting on the 1972 Munich massacre and Al Michaels' calling what would become known as the "Miracle on Ice" in 1980. So it isn't merely just a list of commentators, there's some context behind it. BornonJune8 (talk) 11:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 06:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Olympics on CBC commentators
- Olympics on CBC commentators (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to the most ardent fans. Fails WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. As with sources per WP:RS besides those unsourced and dead links, these consists of WP:PRIMARY and announcments, not helping this list to assert notability. SpacedFarmer (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Olympics on NBC commentators SpacedFarmer (talk) 06:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Sports, Lists, and Canada. SpacedFarmer (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Olympics. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Delete I found only this so far [18]. So, maybe more exist? Otherwise it's WP:LISTCRUFT mixed with WP:OR. Conyo14 (talk) 16:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This article should as a secondary option, be merged with the main CBC Olympic broadcasts article. Otherwise, a lot of great effort has hopefully recently been made to provide better context and information (there are now, about 60 references that have been added) behind the extensive history of CBC's Olympic Games coverage in Canada dating back to the early 1960s and to make it less "bare bones" looking. Here's some additional information on CBC's Olympic telecasts of recent times: Steve Armitage retires after 50-plus years calling Olympics and more for CBC, Famed CBC announcer Steve Armitage will miss Rio Olympics over heart problems, CBC’s Devin Heroux shares how he won’t be going to Beijing after December positive COVID test, illustrating wider media concerns, With Canada’s women’s curling team eliminated from Olympic medal contention, Canadian Twitter is upset…at the CBC’s Colleen Jones?, Support pours in for CBC’s Elliotte Friedman, who’s still hard on himself, VIDEO: CBC announcer mixes up Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte during 200 IM Final, CBC hot mic catches swimming analyst saying 14-year-old “died like a pig”. Also from the CBC Media Centre, CBC'S TOKYO 2020 BROADCAST TEAM, CBC'S OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES BEIJING 2022 .... A "full" list of CBC's television personalities can be found here. BornonJune8 (talk) 08:49, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Checked the sources; the first three sources are about the announcers, the one about Canada’s women’s curling team (source 4) are about the team, the other three about the games itself and the last two are WP:PRIMARY. Anything supporting this list is doing nothing for it. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep copy/paste rationale, no evidence of a WP:BEFORE check. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Before you accuse me of a copy/paste rationale, I have made a WP:BEFORE check. I already debunked the new sources above. SpacedFarmer (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: 62 sources have been added since nomination. WP:HEYMAN.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 19:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)- Delete: This does not meet the WP:LISTN as the group isn't discussed in non-primary sources or really any RS whatsoever. The sources are either YouTube links, press releases, blogs, or are from the CBC. Another example of WP:REFBOMBING. Let'srun (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)