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@Mohanbhan: Ajivikas should be in the Nastika group of this template. Reliable source: P.T. Raju (1985), Structural Depths of Indian Thought, State University of New York Press, ISBN 978-0887061394, page 147. Do you have a reliable source that it shouldn't be? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 09:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC) |
@Mohanbhan: Ajivikas should be in the Nastika group of this template. Reliable source: P.T. Raju (1985), Structural Depths of Indian Thought, State University of New York Press, ISBN 978-0887061394, page 147. Do you have a reliable source that it shouldn't be? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 09:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC) |
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This is what Raju (1985) says on p.147: "There were sects other than Buddhism and Jainism, which rejected the authoritativeness of the Vedic scripture. The Ajivikas*,3 along with whom the orthodox schools clubbed the Jainas and the Buddhists, also rejected the Vedas. The Carvakas* also did the same thing. If the Ajivikas* and the Carvakas* can be Hindus, there is every justification to call Jainism and Buddhism forms of Hinduism. As mentioned already, the word Hinduism has no definite meaning and, we may even say, does not mean a thing." Is he saying that Buddhism, Jainism and Ajivika are part of Hinduism? Stop bamboozling the community Sarah Welch. -[[User:Mohanbhan|Mohanbhan]] ([[User talk:Mohanbhan|talk]]) 10:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC) |
:This is what Raju (1985) says on p.147: "There were sects other than Buddhism and Jainism, which rejected the authoritativeness of the Vedic scripture. The Ajivikas*,3 along with whom the orthodox schools clubbed the Jainas and the Buddhists, also rejected the Vedas. The Carvakas* also did the same thing. If the Ajivikas* and the Carvakas* can be Hindus, there is every justification to call Jainism and Buddhism forms of Hinduism. As mentioned already, the word Hinduism has no definite meaning and, we may even say, does not mean a thing." Is he saying that Buddhism, Jainism and Ajivika are part of Hinduism? Stop bamboozling the community Sarah Welch. -[[User:Mohanbhan|Mohanbhan]] ([[User talk:Mohanbhan|talk]]) 10:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC) |
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::I have no objection whatsoever to including Jainism and Hinduism in this template. Who cares if they are not "strictly" Hindu? I don't, most Hindus probably don't, and most Buddhists probably also don't. How about an RfC? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|<font size="2"><span style="font-family:Forte;color:black">Joshua Jonathan</span></font>]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|<font size="3"><span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black">Let's talk!</span></font>]] 10:58, 1 July 2015 (UTC) |
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Created
Created the template. This can be included in the right-hand top corner of articles relating to Hindu philosophy. Babub 10:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- we already have a sidebar.--D-Boy 08:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Yogananda
I've removed Yogananda. It's going a bit far to pick him out as a notable modern Hindu philosopher. Would like to see the reliable 3rd party source that does so. --Simon D M (talk) 15:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
- I've added him back. He is prominently and frequently mentioned in many books on modern Hinduism. Here are a few more academic books and articles that mention him specifically in the context of Hindu philosophy:
- Dell, David (1981). Guide to Hindu Religion, Asian Philosophies and Religions Resources Guide Series. Boston: G.K. Hall and Company.
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suggested) (help) - McDermott, Robert A. (April, 1975). "Indian Spirituality in the West: A Bibliographical Mapping". Philosophy East and West. 25 (2). The University Press of Hawaii.
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(help) - Thomas, Wendell (1930). Hinduism Invades America. The Beacon Press.
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(help), entire chapter dedicated to Yogananda.
Keep in mind that he is listed under 'Modern' on the template. Many of the others in that list are far less notable, and would likely not have references at all, though I would tend to be inclusionist in that regard. Cheers, ~ priyanath talk 23:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
- No surprise that Hinduism invades America has a chapter on Yogananda, but it doesn't make him a significant philosopher. Maybe you should provide a quote from a reliable source (ie not Swami Kriyananda etc) that he is. I take your point about some of the others having little right to the position, maybe you're right. I note that none of the modern 'philosophers' listed even feature in the Hindu philosophy article. I disagree that we should be inclusionist, that's an invitation to spammers to promote their chosen guru. --Simon D M (talk) 16:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt that there is a reliable source with a 'list of Hindu Philosphers'. It's also likely that only a few, if any of those listed in the template, are labeled 'Hindu philosphers' by reliable academic sources. So this template will always be somewhat arbitrary. The first two references above are academic sources that include Yogananda and his work in discussions of Hindu philosophy - which likely puts him above 90% of those on the template. The third puts him on par with Swami Vivekananda and Vivekananda's influence in spreading Hindu philosophy and religion to the West. The proper place for this discussion, if you want to carry it further, would be on the WikiProject Hinduism notice board. Cheers, ~ priyanath talk 17:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- Indian Philosophy: An Introduction to Hindu and Buddhist Thought By Richard King ISBN 0748609547 has no mention of Yogananda but Gandhi, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Ramana and Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan are all mentioned. No mention of Satyananda, Prabhupada, Anandamurti, Chinmayananda, Ayya Vaikundar, Pandurang Shastri Athavale, Nitya Chaitanya Yati, Nataraja Guru or Narayana Guru.
- Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies (1983) By Karl H. Potter ISBN 8120803086 (6483 pages) has 10,000 citations. Yogananda's ideas clearly receive little attention but there is significant attention to Gandhi, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Ramana and Radhakrishnan. I think it's pretty clear that the list has serious omissions and what there is can be divided into serious contenders and spam. While only one of Yogananda's works is referenced at all, many of Sivananda's are, 4 of Satyananda's are, 2 of Chinmayananda's, 1 for Nitya Chaitanya Yati, 1 for Nataraja Guru. No mention for Pabhupada, Anandamurti, Ayya Vaikundar, Pandurang Shastri Athavale and Narayana Guru.
Nisargadatta Maharaj
How notable is Nisargadatta Maharaj??--Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
- Not. Wikidās ॐ 14:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Prabhupada
Which of the two notable Prabhupadas is intended to be linked to? --R'n'B (call me Russ) 16:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Inclusion of topics like the Hindu calendar?
Shouldn't topics like the Hindu calendar also be included in an independent section in the template? Unless they are already included a different (perhaps even more relevant) template. If so, can anyone point me to it? --MK 12:43, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
- Ok, found it. It's template:Hinduism
Collapse!
The template is too large and taking lots of space in one side of articles, use collapse option! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 10:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
- Anyone planning to use collapsible boxes in the template? The template is already too large and taking lots of space! --Tito Dutta Message 01:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
- Is anyone going to do this work (or at least respond)? Or I'll give a try? --Tito Dutta ✉ 14:37, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
- Anyone? --Tito Dutta ✉ 03:23, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
- Is anyone going to do this work (or at least respond)? Or I'll give a try? --Tito Dutta ✉ 14:37, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
No one? OK, I have tried to do it in this edit --Tito Dutta ✉ 04:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Jainism, Buddhism, Carvaka and Ajivika part of Hinduism?
These are certainly not part of Hinduism. Wiki will lose all credibility as an impartial source of info if this template continues as it is. Can someone please remove these? I tried doing that and messed up. This template needs careful editing. Samkhya and Yoga can be classed as Nastika (meaning they do not believe in a supernatural god). The only reason for them to be classed as Astika (orthodox) is because of the widely held belief that they hold Vedas as an authority. "Recent" scholarship on this suggests (see Mikel Burley's book on Samkhya and Yoga philosophy) that one cannot make such a straightforward claim--the book clearly suggests that Samkhya and Yoga are more nastika than astika. To be very clear Vedanta schools are the only astika schools, the rest veer towards being nastika. Also, what is Sikhism doing here? Under "Other philosophies and religions related to Hinduism" one can add all the world's religions - Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam - and all western schools of philosophy. This section does not make any sense. -Mohanbhan (talk) 15:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
"Jainism,Buddhism and Sikhism are other Indian phioloshophies apart from Hindu philosophy" @Conradjagan: could you please explain what you mean by this? Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism are three separate religions and have their own sidebars on wiki. Why are you calling these religions other Indian "philosophies"? -Mohanbhan (talk) 10:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Mohanbhan: Here are two reliable sources that include Carvaka, Ajivika, Buddhism and Jainism as Indian Philosophies: (1) Basant Pradhan (2014), Yoga and Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy, Springer Academic, ISBN 978-3319091044, page 10; (2) David Jones (2010), Asian Texts - Asian Contexts, State University of New York Press, ISBN 978-1438426754, pages 78-79. These sources mention the link of the first two to Hinduism. You mention Mikel Burley, but on pages 2-3, he calls Buddhism and Jainism as Nastika/Heterodox philosophies and explains their relationship to Hindu philosophy (Mikel Burley (2006), Classical Samkhya and Yoga: An Indian Metaphysics of Experience, Routledge, ISBN 978-0415394482). So these should be included in this template. Do you have reliable sources that support excluding Ajivika, Buddhism and Jainism from this template? Unless you present reliable sources, I intend to add Ajivika, Buddhism and Jainism back. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Ms Sarah Welch: I never said anything about them not being Indian philosophies, my concern is about them being classed as Hindu philosophy. They are not "Hindu" philosophy in any sense, which is what this template is called. Yes, Burley or any other scholar would call Buddhism and Jainism heterodox because they are opposed to what is called as "Hinduism" today. I do not understand your overzealous attitude considering there are separate sidebars for Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. -Mohanbhan (talk) 04:13, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Mohanbhan: Because there are Indian philosophies related to Hindu philosophies (see sources above), and wikipedia templates are meant as information links. Thanks for clarifying. I will change the template. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 08:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- You are getting into a meaningless editwar Sarah Welch, you have no consensus to change the template. Can you pls re-read what I have written before jumping the gun? Hindu philosophies can be part of Indian philosophy template and not the other way round. Discuss here, provide reliable sources (what you have provided as RS says B and J are Indian philosophies, not part of Hindu philosophy) and get the consensus before you make any change. -Mohanbhan (talk) 09:08, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
@Mohanbhan: You have already agreed Buddhism and Jainism are Indian philosophies, and they are related to Hindu philosophy. I do not understand you: are you suggesting there is no information value in adding links to "Related Indian Philosophies" within this encyclopedic template?
I ping @Joshua Jonathan: for a second opinion, a veteran editor on Buddhism and Hinduism pages. @JJ: this template, created long ago by someone, has had consensus links to Buddhism, Jainism in it. Mohanbhan recently deleted those, and now demands a new consensus. What are your thoughts: are encyclopedic links to Buddhism and Jainism under "Related Indian philosophies" of information value? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 09:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
@Mohanbhan: Ajivikas should be in the Nastika group of this template. Reliable source: P.T. Raju (1985), Structural Depths of Indian Thought, State University of New York Press, ISBN 978-0887061394, page 147. Do you have a reliable source that it shouldn't be? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 09:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- This is what Raju (1985) says on p.147: "There were sects other than Buddhism and Jainism, which rejected the authoritativeness of the Vedic scripture. The Ajivikas*,3 along with whom the orthodox schools clubbed the Jainas and the Buddhists, also rejected the Vedas. The Carvakas* also did the same thing. If the Ajivikas* and the Carvakas* can be Hindus, there is every justification to call Jainism and Buddhism forms of Hinduism. As mentioned already, the word Hinduism has no definite meaning and, we may even say, does not mean a thing." Is he saying that Buddhism, Jainism and Ajivika are part of Hinduism? Stop bamboozling the community Sarah Welch. -Mohanbhan (talk) 10:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have no objection whatsoever to including Jainism and Hinduism in this template. Who cares if they are not "strictly" Hindu? I don't, most Hindus probably don't, and most Buddhists probably also don't. How about an RfC? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:58, 1 July 2015 (UTC)