→Mohun Bagan A.C. should be moved as ATK Mohun Bagan and New Kolkata ISL team should be deleted: Replying to Drat8sub (using reply-link) |
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:how the colour matters? any team can have any colour. so, as per the colour theory, east bengal = Galatasaray, since both have same colour. |
:how the colour matters? any team can have any colour. so, as per the colour theory, east bengal = Galatasaray, since both have same colour. |
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:so, dont support MB and follow [[WP:NPOV]] please. [https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=738400133657162&external_log_id=1617bb2476a481726e7cae1d4155d5b0 utsav parekh interview], where its clearly mentioned, atkmb in 2020, and not 1889/2014. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhA5QkptBn0 debashis Dutta interview], saying the same. <b><span style="background:#444;padding:2px 12px;font-size:12px"><span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">❯❯❯ </span> [[User:ArnabSaha|<span style="color:#fff"> S A H A</span>]]</span></b> 08:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC) |
:so, dont support MB blindly <small>(although its atkmb now)</small> and follow [[WP:NPOV]] please. [https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=738400133657162&external_log_id=1617bb2476a481726e7cae1d4155d5b0 utsav parekh interview], where its clearly mentioned, atkmb in 2020, and not 1889/2014. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhA5QkptBn0 debashis Dutta interview], saying the same. <b><span style="background:#444;padding:2px 12px;font-size:12px"><span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">❯❯❯ </span> [[User:ArnabSaha|<span style="color:#fff"> S A H A</span>]]</span></b> 08:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC) |
Revision as of 08:19, 12 July 2020
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Changing the logos of Indian Football Clubs
I have uploaded the Club Logos as new files, in a standard format of {{{Official <<Club Name>> Logo.png}}} format, with a resolution of 320px. Please cope with the change. FootballExclusive (talk) 15:53, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Football system
I made these 2 tables/chart of our football system. please review it. if any edit required, tell me in my talkpage, or edit it there. অর্ণব S a h a 12:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Manjappada
To all members here, I want bring your notice here, every club has a fan group now a days, but that does not matter that it passes wikipedia guidelines most importantly WP:SIGCOV and WP:GROUP. Without fulfilling these guidelines we cannot keep these kind of articles. The article Manjappada, fan group of Kerala Blasters FC was first created in 2016 and deleted per discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manjappada, failing SIGCOV. Again it was recreated in 2018 and redirect per discussion at [[1]], failing SIGCOV along with failing per G4 and G7 of WP:CSD. And recently it was recreated again in May 2020 and deleted per G4:recreation of deleted page, G5:creation by blocked user.
However, if we consider the first deletion of Manjappada was basically for not having significant coverage. And the latest article created was atleast four times the size of the 2016-2018 article. Its well structured than before and has coverage in TOI, The News Minute, FirstPost, AsianNet News, Sportskeeda, Goal.com, New Indian Express. I am bringing the discussion to have a consensus if we can keep it or not as the main contributer addressed the matter at my talk page and alleged that the deletion was not proper. To me it will be a weak keep. Coderzombie and ArsenalFan700 please put your thoughts for this fellow user Iamfarzan, after all he's a new user may be not much rules and guidelines are not known, though I've addressed the user in multiple occasion of various guidelines and ofcorse seems passionate of keeping the article. Drat8sub (talk) 04:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Manjappada has gained prominence with its innovative approach. They were able to reignite football passion in Kerala also with its spread out of Kerala they were able to re live football among Kerala diaspora out of Kerala. They are always in forefront in contributing to society. With all these contributions no wonder they have won best fans club in India. What make this special is they have beaten Cricket fans groups like Bharath Army, Mumbai Indian fans, RCB fans. A article in Wikipedia would be an information for many fans groups to get inspired. These fans groups helps people follow sports and thereby we can see a change in sports activities in India. So I think they need a independent article. thats why me and my friend created Manjappada Kerala Blasters Fans. Iamfarzan (talk) 07:58, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
- It's clear from your point of view and the article you created that your purpose for creating wikipedia page is promotional. As suggested, please look at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and create a draft page for Manjappada with neutral point of view, which can then be submitted for Wikipedia:Articles for creation and if approved can be taken to main article space. Hope you understand. Coderzombie (talk) 09:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
- Iamfarzan, I think you really don't understand what I said, I told you to make comment specifically to why the article should be kept per "guidelines and policies", not on exaggerated praise and above that I'd multiple times brought to your notice the regarding guideliens and mentioned above also but instead you are sticking to exaggeration.
- Anyway, Coderzombie, I think I will make a draft of the article in a fresh way, as the fan group has more or less significant coverage. I also want to bring to your notice that this article The Juggernauts (Ultras) is total promotional article, so can it be speedy delete per WP:G11 of WP:CSD or WP:PROD is the best way. Drat8sub (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
- Agree with both points, Drat8sub, we can create a draft for Manjappada and get it to AfC. The Juggernauts seems completely promotional. I have tagged with G11, let's see. Coderzombie (talk) 16:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
- It's clear from your point of view and the article you created that your purpose for creating wikipedia page is promotional. As suggested, please look at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and create a draft page for Manjappada with neutral point of view, which can then be submitted for Wikipedia:Articles for creation and if approved can be taken to main article space. Hope you understand. Coderzombie (talk) 09:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Mohun Bagan A.C. should be moved as ATK Mohun Bagan and New Kolkata ISL team should be deleted
Since the owners of newly merged club said that the Legacy of Bagan will be retained including the logo and jersey ,there is no need of a new page such as New Kolkata ISL team. Drat8sub please consider. Shahoodu. (talk) 09:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC). this
- Let's not jump the gun just yet. This will require discussion and consensus. Coderzombie (talk) 12:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Agree with it, ISL and Mohun Bagan themselves have published logo and jersey as unchanged. ArsenalFan700, your thoughts. Drat8sub (talk) 16:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's simply the Mohun Bagan club with its shareholder name included, as for any club when it's shares are bought by any company. AFC too address the club is going with the 130 years history MB. Drat8sub (talk) 16:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Goenka's word (ref) "We have gone with the Maroon and Green jersey. We have gone with the existing logo and the name of the club will be ATK Mohun Bagan". We just need to rename Mohun Bagan page as ATK Mohun Bagan as the logo is same and jersey is same and they are going with legacy of 130 years history of Mohun Bagan. Those new pages are redundant. Drat8sub (talk) 17:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think we should wait this out as it is not nearly clear enough yet. I want to see what happens with the Mohun Bagan youth teams and the CFL. Will Mohun Bagan field a team in the CFL or will ATK Mohun Bagan? Also, they are both still acting as separate entities on facebook and twitter. I want to see how this plays out before saying this is really still Mohun Bagan and not a separate entity. All things are leading towards a separate entity though. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 17:37, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- ATK's twitter handle did not mention anything on their behalf, just retweeted those Mohun Bagan AFC, ISL and MB's tweet. So, their handle will be there for retweeting I think. And seeing the current situation CFL will hardly be a reality in 2020. Drat8sub (talk) 17:51, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- ArsenalFan700, I think we need to look at AFC Ajax, as Amsterdamsche FC merged to Football Club Ajax, there is no seperate page for the Football Club Ajax. Above that Amsterdamsche FC plays as Amateurs of Ajax. So simply we can follow the existing articles. Drat8sub (talk) 18:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Another point can also be seen, Mohun Bagan Official T-shirt is there in Amazon, if it were new entity then the club would not have sold Mohun Bagan jersey. All things are pointed to the same. Drat8sub (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- The jersey is being sold by Mohun Bagan AC, not this new entity. It is hard to make a decision on that alone. Also, are you sure about the Ajax thing? I see nothing referenced about Ajax in the Amsterdamsche page and nothing about Amsterdamsche in the Ajax page. Also, there are over-30 year olds in the Amsterdamsche page. Also, the ATK twitter page did post about it themselves. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 19:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Amsterdamsche was formed around same time in 1895 here and was known as AFC. Here Ajax club was known as Football Club Ajax in 1893 and reformed as Amsterdamsche FC Ajax in 1900. So far I know. Drat8sub (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Its a brand new club. logo might be similar, but that doesnt mean same club. goenka has confirmed they will play in all other leagues as atkmb. [1] there's no source which says atkmb is same as mb or atk. even the owners in interviews cleared the doubts that its different. (check this). the tshirt is sod by mbac. mbac is a different entity (also 19.8% shareholder of atkmb). that doesnt mean atkmb = mb. no idea, why this question still arises. WP:NPOV should be followed. ❯❯❯ S A H A 06:04, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- we cant consider it similar to ajax. that's 200-year-old history. also, there's nothing written in the article as such. ❯❯❯ S A H A 06:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Its a brand new club. logo might be similar, but that doesnt mean same club. goenka has confirmed they will play in all other leagues as atkmb. [1] there's no source which says atkmb is same as mb or atk. even the owners in interviews cleared the doubts that its different. (check this). the tshirt is sod by mbac. mbac is a different entity (also 19.8% shareholder of atkmb). that doesnt mean atkmb = mb. no idea, why this question still arises. WP:NPOV should be followed. ❯❯❯ S A H A 06:04, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- ArsenalFan700, they have also posted the press release. both the pages might be active simultaneously. ❯❯❯ S A H A 06:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Amsterdamsche was formed around same time in 1895 here and was known as AFC. Here Ajax club was known as Football Club Ajax in 1893 and reformed as Amsterdamsche FC Ajax in 1900. So far I know. Drat8sub (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- The jersey is being sold by Mohun Bagan AC, not this new entity. It is hard to make a decision on that alone. Also, are you sure about the Ajax thing? I see nothing referenced about Ajax in the Amsterdamsche page and nothing about Amsterdamsche in the Ajax page. Also, there are over-30 year olds in the Amsterdamsche page. Also, the ATK twitter page did post about it themselves. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 19:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
thing is mb page will continue as multi sports (add more updates), and atkmb as football only. also please someone update atkmb staff to be same as other indian teams template (manager instead of head coach, less locking page rather ban longer!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.174.145 (talk) 17:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Here are some straight facts:
♦Mohun Bagan facilities to be used and will be upgraded icluding Mohun Bagan Ground.2
History/legacy: Mohun Bagan's 130+ year 3
♦Name:ATK Mohun Bagan 1
♦Reason: A majority share stays with Goenka (68%), for which the ATK is added. Srinjoy Bose/Debashis Dutta: It has been done everytime a company buys share, it became tradition...similarly we had McDowell's Mohun Bagan as United Breweries Group bought 49% share in 1998, similarly done with East Bengal...Kingfisher bought East Bengal share or Quess (70%) for East Bengal45
So, new entity for sure as new share holder and for sporting license but its still the same club that the team represents.
♦Irony... the East Bengal fan Arnab, who is commenting above about new entity, should have made another page for both of the East Bengal entities when Kingfisher and Quess was there. East Bengal's football team was playing under the license given to the "East Bengal Pvt. Ltd" without any extra shareholder. When Kingfisher came East Bengal name and logo both were changed and different entity were formed. The entity was then called "United East Bengal Football Team Private Limited" 6 and when Quess was there the entity was "Quess East Bengal Fc Pvt. Ltd" 78. So according to that, a separate page should be created for "Kingfisher East Bengal" and "Quess East Bengal" as these are separate entities than East Bengal.
♦Shares: Why a separate company made everytime..because per rules the registered company get the sporting license for which the team plays. And everytime a share holder of the club change, the license also shifts to the newly registered company. So Mohun Bagan will play under the sporting license given to the ATK-Mohun Bagan Pvt. Ltd. Above that, its a contract, not a permanent thing, with this 5 year contract period anyone can sold its share except share of "Mohun Bagan F.C. India Pvt. Ltd.(MBFCPL)", owner company of Mohun Bagan football team, which is 19.98 of "ATK Mohun Bagan Pvt. Ltd.(ATKMB)". Again "Mohun Bagan Society (MBAC)" has also a permanent share of 70% of MBFCPL's share i.e, 15.2% share of ATKMB. But "Kolkata Games and Sports Pvt. Ltd.(KGSP)" who is owner of ATK football team does not have any share of in ATKMB, the share is of Goenka i,e RP-Sanjiv Goenka Group.9, 10
I don't see why there is a need of any new article when starting from logo, history, colour to ground is of Mohun Bagan and there is no share of KGSP the owner of ATK football team. And if this article is created, I'm afraid we need to create McDowell Mohun Bagan, Kingfisher East Bengal, Quess East Bengal.Drat8sub (talk) 19:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- for ur kind information, mcdowells, kingfisher, quess arent football clubs, and mohun bagan/east bengal didn't merge with these companies. but, atk and MB did merge. no idea, how merge = investment? (i hope this helps)
- atkmb is a whole club. atk and MB arent separate from 1st June. also,
- major shareholder - atk
- chairman - goenka
- squad - atk
- coach - atk
- technical staff - atk
- directors - 3 of atk.
- how the colour matters? any team can have any colour. so, as per the colour theory, east bengal = Galatasaray, since both have same colour.
- so, dont support MB blindly (although its atkmb now) and follow WP:NPOV please. utsav parekh interview, where its clearly mentioned, atkmb in 2020, and not 1889/2014. debashis Dutta interview, saying the same. ❯❯❯ S A H A 08:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- ^ "Dr. Sanjiv Goenka: I share the same passion for Green and Maroon as the fans". Indian Super League. Retrieved 2020-07-11.