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Dear India experts: I have done my best to find online sources for this article. There are quite a few references that are not linked online. Are some of these to independent reliable sources that could be used to demonstrate notability of the subject?—Anne Delong (talk) 19:23, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'd appreciate if a few of you could please add Jallikattu to your watchlists. There's been a recent flare-up of editors who seem to have taken issue with describing this bull riding/wrestling/taming event as "bull embracing", which is a completely bizarre choice of phrasing. Sounds like some kind of hippie love event... I first noticed this a few days ago when this guy changed every instance of "bullfight" to "bullembrace". (This obviously had negative results on URLs, and, well, nobody's come up with a Wikipedia template for BullEmbracing just yet...) This also came up here where another user changed the phrasing of certain words like "grab" to "embrace", and here where "taming" has been changed to "embracing". And, it seems to not be a new concept, as in January of last year, bull-taming/bull-baiting was changed to "bull-vaulting".
My educated guess (as well as my suspicious nature) leads me to believe that in the wake of criticism being levied at this rural sport in the form of animal cruelty accusations, people threatened by the possibility their cultural traditions might disappear, have taken up arms in a censorship/PR campaign. There might be better ways of describing it than "taming"--maybe "wrestling", "riding"--I don't know, but "embracing" is purely asinine and we do not use euphemistic language. Anyway, if some more of you could take a look, I'd appreciate it. You might have better ideas for how to improve it. Thanks! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:58, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Related to this: 2017 Jallikattu protests has been created recently. I question the neutrality of it at present. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:50, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I also became aware of Bullfighting in Tamil Nadu, which I have redirected to Jallikattu. Please double-check my choice to ensure that it was sound. The article was largely unsourced, seemed mostly like an editorial, was also prone to the BullEmbracing stuff, and seemed like a possible copy-paste job since similar content appeared here at Jallikattu. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:35, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- So far, the articles affected:
- Jallikattu
- 2017 Jallikattu protests
- Karthikeya Sivasenapathy
- Bullfighting in Tamil Nadu - I redirected this
- There have been some sock/meatpuppetry instances at the 2017 Jallikattu protests article, so keeping an eye on these all would be helpful. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:43, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Invitation for Office Hours with WMF's Global Reach team
Hi,
On behalf of Wikimedia Foundation’s Global Reach Team, we would like to invite all the South Asian Wikimedia communities to our office hours to discuss our work in the region.
Meeting Details
Date: Thursday, 19th January 2017
Time: 16:00 UTC/21:30 IST
Duration: 1 hour
Language: English
Google Hangout Location:
If you are not able to join the hangout, you can watch the live stream with a few seconds lag at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD-VCpQkVSk
Etherpad: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Global_Reach_South_Asia_Office_Hours
Agenda
- Introduction of Global Reach Team and office hours
- Research around New Readers and our partnership themes
- Feedback for next office hours
- Q&A
We plan to hold these office hours at regular intervals. FYI, office hours for South East Asia and Central Asia/Eastern Europe will be held separately; given the size of communities, we needed to break down the regions.
Please feel free to add your questions, comments, and expectations in the Etherpad document shared above. You can also reach out to sgupta@wikimedia.org and rayyakkannu@wikimedia.org for any clarification. Please help us translate and share this invitation in community social media channels to spread the word.
Thanks,
Ravishankar Ayyakkannu, Manager, Strategic Partnerships, Asia, Wikimedia Foundation --16:23, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Train-the-Trainer 2017: Invitation to participate
Hello,
It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Train-the-Trainer (TTT) 2017 programme organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 20-22 February 2017.
What is TTT?
Train the Trainer or TTT is a residential training program. The program attempts to groom leadership skills among the Indian Wikimedia community members. Earlier TTT have been conducted in 2013, 2015 and 2016.
Who should join?
- Any active Wikimedian contributing to any Indic language Wikimedia project is eligible to apply.
- An editor must have 500+ edits.
- Anyone who have already participated in an earlier iteration of TTT, can not apply.
Please see more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so: CIS-A2K/Events/Train the Trainer Program/2017
If you have any question, please let us know.
Regards. Tito Dutta (CIS-A2K) sent using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:35, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm concerned that a number of India-related articles are the subject of edits that constitute undue weight, and possible synthesis of published materials. I'm especially concerned about articles on Indian ancient history or prehistory, such as Indus Valley Civilization, and Vedic_period#Origins. See also Indo-Aryan migration theory, Indo-Aryan peoples, as examples of pages which I had to edit to reduce the synthesis or ambiguity. At a time in which there are thousands of journal articles on pretty much any narrow topic, it is very easy to synthesize reliable sources into a rambling, subtly POV-ridden, article. Encyclopedias are beholden to present the consensus view of a topic; they are necessarily conservative and traditional in their descriptions. They are not surveys of recent literature on a topic. I would like people to take a look at Talk:Indus_Valley_Civilisation#.22Too_much_addition.22, and I invite you to present your views. I see this problem as a increasingly bigger WP-wide one. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:42, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Existence of Template:Kshatriya Communities
See Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_January_19#Template:Kshatriya_Communities. - Sitush (talk) 20:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
R Nandakumar
Hi There,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:R_Nandakumar
Need help in this article. R Nandakumar is a noted art critic and his works have been cited by prominent authors from across the world. His works have been published in many magazines and academic journals in India and abroad. He has been conferred the Kerala Puraskar Award in the year 2007 by Kerala Lalithakala Akademi and has been the senior fellow of Nehru Memorial Museum & Library. His article is being rejected several times and the editors seem to not understand the value of the awards and contribution made by R Nandakumar. Is there any way I could improve the article?
Thank you.
Tirutirutiru (talk) 11:59, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
MediaWiki Training 2017: Invitation to participate
Hello,
We are glad to inform that MediaWiki Training or MWT 2017 is going to be conducted between 24-26 February 2017 at Bangalore.
MWT is a residential training workshop that attempts to groom technical leadership skills among the Indian Wikimedia community members. We invite active Indian Wikimedia community members to participate in this workshop.
Please find details about this event here.
Let us know if you have any question.
Regards. -- Tito Dutta (CIS-A2K) sent using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:25, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Geographic "source of truth"?
I'm been punting away at correcting obvious typos in Indian place names (e.g. Himachel, pardesh, Predesh, etc.) but I keep coming across names where there are at least two versions, and I can't say which one is correct. I know that spelling across language sounds can vary, but there must be a "known correct" version for the name in English, right? The couple times I've really looked hard I find conflicts, even in government documents.
Probably best illustrated by the simple word 'tehsil' also 'tahsil'. Okay, what are the numbers here at Wikipedia? About 20 to 1 in favour of 'tehsil'. Okay, but is it 'correct'? And in looking I found a recent central government census report where on the very same page it would have both versions, multiple times!
Can you suggest where to go to find the 'correct' names for places and terms? I don't want to use Google Maps as my source of truth... :-) Shenme (talk) 04:03, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Conflict over "Indic scripts in lead" section of Wikipedia:WikiProject India
Background: I am not Indian and do not speak a language that uses an Indic script (unless baybayin counts ). I was editing 2017 pro-Jallikattu protests. On top of expanding the article substantially, I added Tamil script to the lead, much to the chagrin of some editors who were quick to point at WP:NOINDICSCRIPT.
Research: I was very immediately skeptical of that page so I began reading the actual 2012 RfC it is based on, along with MOS:INDIA. First let's look at what DeltaQuad actually said in her closure.
There is ultimately no consensus about which language to use, but I see a fair bit of support in regards to IPA and pronunciation and would think this would help normal readers, so I am going to say that 'Using IPA to clarify pronunciation' is the consensus of this discussion, all other sections do not meet a level of consensus needed to pass.
— DeltaQuad (emphasis added)
No consensus about what language to use? I can see that they meant, with articles about people, because people move! They go overseas! They stop spelling their name in their native script! Their parents potentially each give them a part of their name that has different native scripts! OK, that's fine.
What is not fine is the ridiculous assertion that this RfC applies the way it does. Why, if the script we should be using is obvious, can't we include it? What makes India articles different than China related articles? If it turns out I'm wrong and the consensus in 2012 was to remove the Indic scripts even in obvious cases of which language applies, I hereby move to reopen the discussion as per WP:CCC.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I misunderstand the consensus reached in the RfC and my edit was wrong. SpacemanSpiff, can you kindly explain your revert? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:01, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- You need to consider subsequent discussions. The phrasing of the thing you changed has been fixed for ages and SpacemanSpiff was right to revert you. - Sitush (talk) 12:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Sitush: If there were further discussions which generated substantial consensus, they should be linked on Wikipedia:WikiProject India. Do you know where they are? I only started editing on this site in 2016, which is a good representation of the WP:10YT. Because the project page does not link to these more recent discussions, I just assumed its wording was only based on what it linked to. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- You are free to open a new RfC but please don't use your interpretation to change settled consensus. THere's obviously no more explanation needed, your assertion that you're right is what is ridiculous. —SpacemanSpiff 12:04, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- @SpacemanSpiff: If there was a further RfC or discussion which resulted in the wording change on Wikipedia:WikiProject India, can you link it to me to save us all a lot of time? I wanted to know where that wording came from, and so I looked at the linked RfC discussion and the two clarifications, but neither did not say what you say that they say. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- What part of the closer's clarification: *Personally I thought that this was already cleared up above, but i'll go for it again. The consensus is to remove the scripts and replace them with IPA to clarify the pronunciation. is not clear? If you want to change consensus then feel free to open an RfC, don't alter existing stuff to suit your opinion on what it should be.—SpacemanSpiff 12:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- No part. I was not aware that that was part of the RfC closure notice and not just DeltaQuad's opinion, because it does not appear anywhere in Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_48#Native_languages_in_lead except as a link. But, I should have realized that they were both written by the same person, so the talk page clarified DQ's intent with the closure. I absolutely plan on opening a new RfC, but, I would like to apologize to you SpacemanSpiff as you are right, consensus is against me, and my edit to Wikipedia:WikiProject India, while a good faith interpretation, was wrong. Apologies. {I would recommend that Archive 48 be edited (even though it is an archive, per WP:IAR) to clarify that DQ's clarification is part of the closure notice. I will also work on removing Tamil language from articles I have added it to as per my erroneous understanding of the RfC closure. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:20, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I have undone my changes to jallikattu and 2017 pro-Jallikattu protests, as promised. I once again apologize to my fellow editors for what you may perceive as disruption, but I promise it was mere confusion from not being involved in Wikipedia for long enough to understand why I was wrong. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:34, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- No part. I was not aware that that was part of the RfC closure notice and not just DeltaQuad's opinion, because it does not appear anywhere in Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_48#Native_languages_in_lead except as a link. But, I should have realized that they were both written by the same person, so the talk page clarified DQ's intent with the closure. I absolutely plan on opening a new RfC, but, I would like to apologize to you SpacemanSpiff as you are right, consensus is against me, and my edit to Wikipedia:WikiProject India, while a good faith interpretation, was wrong. Apologies. {I would recommend that Archive 48 be edited (even though it is an archive, per WP:IAR) to clarify that DQ's clarification is part of the closure notice. I will also work on removing Tamil language from articles I have added it to as per my erroneous understanding of the RfC closure. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:20, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- What part of the closer's clarification: *Personally I thought that this was already cleared up above, but i'll go for it again. The consensus is to remove the scripts and replace them with IPA to clarify the pronunciation. is not clear? If you want to change consensus then feel free to open an RfC, don't alter existing stuff to suit your opinion on what it should be.—SpacemanSpiff 12:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- @SpacemanSpiff: If there was a further RfC or discussion which resulted in the wording change on Wikipedia:WikiProject India, can you link it to me to save us all a lot of time? I wanted to know where that wording came from, and so I looked at the linked RfC discussion and the two clarifications, but neither did not say what you say that they say. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Oh, please don't plan on opening a new RfC. At least, not until you actually understand what is going on ... and my guess is that you are many months' of experience away from that. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Sitush: I fear you may be right and will hold off on the RfC indefinitely. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 12:36, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- This is a significantly contentious topic, I was on the losing side of the argument as far as applicability for geographic locations goes but I have to say that I'm happy to say that while my opinion may not have prevailed in that, I believe the current situation is better than what I had hoped for. —SpacemanSpiff 13:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- At the risk of annoying you further SpacemanSpiff, may I ask why you feel how you do? What makes Indian languages different than Chinese, etc? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 13:36, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- This is a significantly contentious topic, I was on the losing side of the argument as far as applicability for geographic locations goes but I have to say that I'm happy to say that while my opinion may not have prevailed in that, I believe the current situation is better than what I had hoped for. —SpacemanSpiff 13:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I think it's definitely a good idea to start a new RfC to re-examine the issue and come up with something more nuanced and qualified than the draconian blanket ban that we seem to have at present. – Uanfala (talk) 16:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - The lead sentence of any article is a typical target of density and clutter. With regard to jallikattu, trying to cram in the three major alternative names for the practice, plus the three Tamil scripts, plus the general description of what the practice is just too much data even without WP:NOINDICSCRIPT. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:09, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - Other than the issue of clutter, it is wholly unproductive. We waste a lot of time trying to decide which scripts should go there, in which order etc. (All this happened very recently with the infobox for the main India page.) If a script gets vandalised, we wouldn't know for a long time because nobody knows all the Indian scripts. Script-warring is merely for show-off. It has nothing to with the purposes of Wikipedia. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:18, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Kautilya3: Very well put. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:02, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- Psiĥedelisto, the number of lame edit wars on script additions and removals has gone down significantly, as has also the alternate script vandalism/BLP vios. —SpacemanSpiff 07:28, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- Indeed. A read of Languages of India might be useful - 2001 Census apparently listed 122 major languages and 1599 others. - Sitush (talk) 07:33, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Rameshwari Photocopy Service shop copyright case
Hi,
I want to begin an article about Rameshwari Photocopy Service shop copyright case on english wikipedia. Pl. do suggest suitable title for the article and also join in building the article if possible.
some links to begin with.
- {http://indianexpress.com/article/india/a-day-in-the-life-of-rameshwari-photocopy-service-shop-delhi-university-4432772/ Delhi Highcourt order on Indiankanoon.com
- analytical article 1
Mahitgar (talk) 12:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
I am looking for an infobox template support about Template:Infobox India Highcourt Case for article Rameshwari Photocopy Service shop copyright case on the same lines as of Template:Infobox United States District Court Case
Mahitgar (talk) 13:27, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I've removed your help request, please use that only on your talk page. You can use
{{Infobox court case}}
for any court case. —SpacemanSpiff 13:34, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Cleanup at Bhang?
The article Bhang has a lot of uncited content from well-meaning novice editors, and could really do with some deletions and some additions of cited material. Can anyone here take a look and make some small improvements? This article also exists in an impressive 20 languages, and gets 366,000 views per year, so it's a pretty high-visibility article and worth improving. Goonsquad LCpl Mulvaney (talk) 05:51, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Greetings. Following the well-covered suicide of a student at this college, various editors have tried to add AfD tags without proper followup, to blank the page, then to add unsourced material relating to the controversies surrounding this incident. Finally, some editors (especially one with the un-NPOV username of "Helpsavestudents") have added information on the controversies with references, but these now constitute the bulk of the article text. I'd like to ask that the article be examined by someone here who is better than myself at a) content editing in general, and b) evaluating the reliability of Indian sources, with an eye towards making sure that the controversy section meets standards on its own and is given the appropriate weight within the article as a whole. Thank you for your time. --Finngall talk 16:51, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Gyan / Kalpaz (again)
Many editors here are already familiar with WP:PUS#Wikipedia mirrors. The books published by Gyan Publishing House and Kalpaz / Isha Books extensively plagiarize Wikipedia.
Since the last clean up, these books have been reintroduced as citations in 500+ articles, resulting in circular references:
- Gyan Publishing House
- Kalpaz
- Isha Books
Obviously, these need to be cleaned up. And we need to come up with a plan to prevent the re-introduction of these as references (something like MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist or a bot that notifies the users who add these). Suggestions welcome. utcursch | talk 03:18, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Sigh, we went through this exercise not too long ago. I think a bot request to list out all articles with these refs is overdue, I'll try to frame something, but we'd need a list of all such books/ISBNs/authors, maybe a table of that can be made? —SpacemanSpiff 05:07, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Found another awful author-publisher combo: Renu Saran - Diamond Pocket Books. Used in several Wikipedia articles. utcursch | talk 20:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
AFD notice
There is an AFD currently running for Dagar, which is in this project's purview. Please join in the conversation here. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 17:27, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Arjuna Award and Sangeet Natak Akademi Award
A discussion about Arjuna Award and Sangeet Natak Akademi Award is being held here at Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates#Continuously expanding lists. Please provide your opinion. - Vivvt (Talk) 18:12, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether this is a notable topic but the promotional language ("humongous") is awful. Can this be salvaged? AusLondonder (talk) 22:12, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Redundant articles on drums?
Hi all, I recently came across a few articles on drums used in the Subcontinent, and I think there's redundancy among them. I think there's more than one topic, but a merge or two is probably called for. The affected articles are Tabla, Naqareh, Nakara (drum), and Nagara (drum). Should these all be separate? --BDD (talk) 22:14, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Only nakara and nagara look same imo. Swingoswingo (talk) 08:17, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Arab warrior in Tamil Nadu?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manamadurai#The_Holy_Paanch_peer_.28Anjanamar.29_Five_Shuhadaas_Dargah
First time in life I am hearing this kind of a story:- Some Arab came to south India, there was a war and his dargah was built. Can somebody help with the truthfulness of these claims? Thanks. Swingoswingo (talk) 08:15, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- That looks like a mess even without considering the claims, someone's put an entire pseudo-article of that dargah in the article about the place, like a WP:COATRACK. Even if true and sourced, it should have it's own article, not everything explained there.
- It's unsourced. Remove it per WP:REDFLAG and WP:BURDEN. Of course, you'll get brownie points for doing the minimum source searching highlighted in WP:BEFORE. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 12:29, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Seeking native Telugu speaker to review file
More information at Talk:Telugu_language#New_Telugu_consonant_chart. Thank you for your time and attention. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 11:39, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- You can try Category:User te-N and Category:User te-4. Even if they aren't on those two categories, I think Ganeshk and Kautilya3 may also be able to help. —SpacemanSpiff 12:04, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Geographic disambiguation
I just happened on four villages all named "Akauna" within the state of Bihar, and I wondered how they should be disambiguated. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic_names)#India suggests disambiguation should be by district, which would lead to Akauna, Nalanda, Akauna, Nawada, Akauna, Patna and Akauna, Aurangabad. The last of these already shows a problem: There is another Aurangabad district in Maharashtra, and while I doubt that one also has a village named Akauna, I'd still be unhappy with such an... ambiguous disambiguation. I believe US townships use (if necessary) a disambiguation scheme of "Township, county, state" - wouldn't similarly "Village, district, state" (ie Akauna, Patna, Bihar and so on) be better if a disambiguation below the state level is needed at all? If there's just one village of the name in the state, wouldn't then "Village, state" be better than "Village, district"? After all, disambiguation shouldn't be more specific than necessary, and I see no need to make district, instead of state, the default level of disambiguation. Huon (talk) 22:42, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
The Early Coorgs
Is The Early Coorgs actually a notable book? I have a suspicion that the article is basically self-promotion. The book itself was published by NotionPress, a vanity publisher. - Sitush (talk) 01:35, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Yikes, there is Long ago in Coorg also. By the same author. - Sitush (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
- Huh, WP articles call them history, while this review[1] calls the first book a "novel." It's dubious whether these books and author are notable. Surely the books aren't reliable sources here, even though they are both used in several articles that way. [2][3] First Light (talk) 03:09, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
- He also happens to "edit on Wikipedia" according The Hindu article, so there is likely some self-promotion here. First Light (talk) 03:21, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. Theonlynitin (talk · contribs) has been the person adding most of those links, which I've now removed. Looks like WP:COI to me. - Sitush (talk) 12:56, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
- He also happens to "edit on Wikipedia" according The Hindu article, so there is likely some self-promotion here. First Light (talk) 03:21, 29 January 2017 (UTC)