Waleswatcher
No action. Sandstein 18:04, 30 July 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Waleswatcher
This is a little bit slapdash because I did not anticipate that Waleswatcher would choose to carry on, particularly given the attention this has already received at WT:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#How to handle this and two threads at the administrator's noticeboard for incidents. The primary issue here is that Waleswatcher has been gameing the DS restrictions, and then edit-warring on top of that. I think the fourth diff may constitute a direct and explicit violation of the discretionary sanctions. This has gotten out of hand, and we need an admin to intervene. I'm going to take a moment to note that I (and others) stand accused of violating the discretionary sanctions as well. Our reverts are said to be a violation of the "consensus required" clause by Waleswatcher. One of several similar posts directed at myself and/or others - 23:23, 21 July 2018. Other accusations are available at WT:AE#How to handle this, these have been hatted by Sandstein. Gameing of the 1RR restriction:
The diffs I have provided above are all related to the 1RR restriction and edit warring in general. First, and foremost, I have already delivered a personal warning to Waleswatcher on their talk page about this: With regards to this, I anticipate that Waleswatcher will justify their edit-warring as being strict enforcement of the consensus. I, and practically everyone else, disagree. The emerging consensus as I outlined above is against inclusion in their current form, and no fewer than four editors have directly addressed Waleswatcher requesting that they cease and desist. Those individuals are: Thomas.W, Afootpluto, Springee, and myself. Notes:
One question: Should I, or should I not, notify the individuals I have named in my request about this discussion? Mr rnddude (talk) 16:45, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
I have notified Waleswatcher of the request Discussion concerning WaleswatcherStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by WaleswatcherThis will have to be somewhat incomplete. I can only access Wikipedia from where I am now via a very slow phone data connection, which makes it very difficult and time consuming to post diffs, or even search for edits. So I cannot argue my case very effectively and will have to rely mostly on memory. Please excuse typos, same reason. I hope admins will agree that the situation is pretty clear. It started with an edit by 72bikers, who removed some quotes that had been in the article since at least March, well before NealN put the current remedies in place. I did not agree with that removal and I reverted it. My edit summary was unfortunately incomplete - I hit the wrong button while in the middle of typing it. The "consensus version" I mentioned should have been "version consensus is required to change" or something to that effect, and I hadn't detailed my reasons for objecting yet. I can understand how this might irritate someone that agreed with 72bikers' edit. Nevertheless, the rules in place there, as I understand them (and I don't see room for ambiguity, they are quite clearly written) are that once an edit has been challenged by reversion, it cannot be reinstated without first achieving consensus on the article talk page. So, when Thomas.W undid my revert, I politely requested they self-revert on their talk page. They refused, and I was accused of bad-faith by them and several other editors, notably including Mr rnddude. At that point I asked for guidance from NealN, but when I realized they were on vacation, I reported Thomas.W to ani. Unfortunately my report was quickly closed as wrong venue, with no guidance about what the right venue was (I didn't even know this board existed until later). So, I decided to re-revert, with a long edit summary explaining my reasons more clearly and reminding everyone of the rule that consensus is required before a challenged edit can be reinstated. Unfortunately Mr rnddude reverted that, despite knowing the rule. This happened once again, this time Afootpluto doing the reverting. These look to me like clear and purposeful violations of the article restrictions. I made sure my reverts were more than 24 hours apart to abide by the rules, even though it seemed to me that might not be necessary given that the edits I was reverting were clear violations of the restrictions. I decided to stop after the third cycle as it seemed pointless to continue, and because by then there was a report at an ae board that I hoped would resolve this. There was also progress on the talk page towards agreement on keeping the quotes while adding some comments to address 72bikers' original concern. Unfortunately the (other) ae report was closed too, again with no guidance. My latest edit was an attempt to restore the quotes 72bikers removed while adding some clarifications to address their concern, following a suggestion from the talk page discussion. I thought this was at least potentially constructive. It would really have been helpful to have some guidance or even an opinion from an admin, so this didn't have to come to this. But of course I understand everyone is busy or might not want to intervene for various reasons. Again, apologies for lack of diffs - I hope this is clear enough. I'll log on occasionally in the next days to see if there are specific questions I should address.
User:Springee, the claim that there was the necessary consensus for 72biker's edit when Thomas.W reinstated it is patently false. Their reinstatement came only seven hours after my revert, and there was hardly any discussion at all, let alone consensus, on the article talk page. I suppose you may be referring to the discussion on Thomas.W's talk page, but that is not what is required by the restriction - article talk page consensus is explicitly required. In any case, to call that discussion a consensus, when hardly any of the involved editors were even aware if it, is disingenuous. Waleswatcher (talk) 17:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by ansh666Not planning on getting involved, but just noting that I've fully protected the article for 1 week because of the last revert/edit by Waleswatcher. Technically, per talk page consensus as mentioned by Mr rnddude, it's on the WP:WRONGVERSION, but oh well. Should this request come to a conclusion one way or another, anyone can drop the protection. Do note, however, that (independently of the proceedings that led to this request) I'd previously semi-protected the article for a while a few days ago because IP socks of User:HughD were active on the page. ansh666 17:05, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (slatersteven)It may be relevant to refer those concerned to [1]. I am not sure that this can be dealt with ion this way as I feel more then one ed is at fault. It might have been nice to have actually received some kind of guidance over the wider issues.Slatersteven (talk) 17:40, 26 July 2018 (UTC) I have to say given that there are at least three other eds who may have breached DS in this one matter I think issuing sanction against one user is wrong. This is why I say this cannot be dealt with within the strictures of AE. Slatersteven (talk) 18:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by PackMecEng@Sandstein: It looks like the restriction was put in place by NeilN here and here. PackMecEng (talk) 18:24, 26 July 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein: I believe he is on vacation until the 29th.[2] PackMecEng (talk) 18:39, 26 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (Springee)This editor has a problematic edit history in this area. The justification for reversion focused on gaming the system rather than explaining the content (quotes inside a citation) contribute to the article. 3 restorations after other editors stepped in shows a failure to listen and poor judgment given the sanctions on the article. The first reversion of 72biker's edit was not justified by an edit summary or talk discussion but was within the rules of DS RR1. That reversion resulted in objections from two editors, myself and Mr rnddude prior to Thomas.W's reversion. So at the time of the first reversion we have 3 editors + 72biker supporting the change (or objecting to WW's restoration) and only WW supporting the restoration. Even with 4:1 against, WW reverts a second time not arguing the material but rather a lack of consensus. Even after a few days of discussion WW hasn't offered much in the way of reasons why the material should be restored despite now four restorations! Conversely, four different editors have removed the material. This should be a hint. I suspect there is no love lost between 72biker and WW. 72biker reported WW for edit warring.[[3]] WW encouraged others to assume the worst intentions of 72bikers (see WW's 10 July comment and VQuakr's final comment, end of section [[4]]) Waleswatcher complains about 72biker to an admin [[5]] while generally failing listen to others about their own edits.[[6]] Note that the article is under DS1 in part due to WW's behavior. WW should have known to be careful based on the warning that closed this WP:ARE.[[7]] Note that the events in that WP:ARE are the reason why the article is under 1RR rules. I think it's easy to assume WW reverted 72biker's edit not based on the edit but the editor and then used wikilawyering to make the change about the sanctions rather than arguments for or against the material itself. This is why I think WP:GAME applies. This same editor argued that rather than the onus being on the editor making a change it was on the editor who wanted to revert the change! (see edit comment [[8]]) As was mentioned above, several editors, myself included warned WW to get consensus before making new changes. This advice was ignored and here we are.
Given WW's failure to listen to others this time and in previous cases I would suggest a formal warning. Springee (talk) 17:59, 27 July 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein:, would a close indicate this is the wrong venue based on the question if RR1 applies to the article or an opinion that Waleswatcher's actions are acceptable? I would think that multiple reversions after consensus against WW's preferred version should indicate that WW is simply not listening (again). Springee (talk) 14:26, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Awilley, WW's original reversion of 72biker was within 1RR guidelines. However, after WW restored the material there was a 4:1 consensus against the material. At that point we have a change in consensus and the material shouldn't have been restored the second, third or fourth time. That was just WW refusing to listen along with using wikilawyering vs content based reasons to keep the material in the article. Springee (talk) 15:29, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken@Ansh666: I appreciate your attempt to be even-handed in your description above, but this is definitely one of those cases of false equivalence. It's not that one side "plays up" the lethality of the weapon and the other side "downplays" it, any neutral observer will testify that one side simply wants to report the weapon's lethality, while the other side wants to suppress it. There is simply no reason for this weapon to exist except to kill things as rapidly and efficiently as possible. Any other considerations are completely secondary.And Sandstein, as a number of editor have reported, the gun control aspect of the AR-15 dispute is not as apparent on Wikipedia, but it's extrinsically true. This is one of those cases where you really do have to look outside of this project to get a clearer picture of what's going on. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:07, 27 July 2018 (UTC)Statement by Thomas.WThere are a few things that are worth noting here, the first one is that Waleswatcher in the edit I reverted, where they re-added the contentious and misleading material that 72biker had removed, in their edit summary claimed to be reverting to a "consensus version", a claim that seems to be false since no one else has seen such a consensus, and Waleswatcher hasn't been able to point to it, in spite of being asked to do so by multiple other editors. The second thing to note is that Waleswatcher well knows that they can't re-add contested material without a consensus, as shown by them in a number of edit summaries (sample diffs: "This material has been challenged and cannot be re-added without consensus. You may be blocked from editing if you persist.", "... once an edit has been challenged, the usual procedure is to seek consensus before reinstating it"), 'and the third thing to note is that Waleswatcher has a habit of twisting the rules, and claim the rules say the direct opposite to what they say, whenever it fits their POV, such as "Getting consensus" is not necessary for an edit on wikipedia. Rather, you should get consensus to undo" (as edit summary for an edit where they re-added a large block of contested text), i.e. claiming that editors can add whatever material they want without consensus, but removing it requires consensus. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 17:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by DlthewaveThe disputed quotes stem from a discussion held in March regarding whether or not the Armalite AR-15 should be described as an "assault rifle." These quotes were added along with the references to clarify that sources do specifically support the term. The section was stable until July 19 when the quotes were removed by 72Bikers and restored hours later by Waleswatcher.
The ensuing discussion (see collapsed section) turned into a chicken-or-egg argument over whether there was existing consensus for the quotes and whether Waleswatcher or 72Bikers was the one who challenged an edit. As I pointed out at the time, this really couldn't be decided without an assessment by an uninvolved admin, and it also begs the question of how Statement by AfootplutoThe reason I removed the quotes after waleswatcher added them back for the third time is because by that time we had a consensus to either not have them in at all or to have them modified Afootpluto (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by SMcCandlishThis is absolutely, positively correct: "The AR-15 is at the heart of the gun control debate, as much as anything is these days." 20 years ago it was mostly about semi-auto pistols, but this has radically changed. You may have to be an American to understand how much it has changed. That article and its talk page are unquestionably within the DS scope. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:47, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Waleswatcher
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Malik Shabazz
Blocked for two weeks. Sandstein 09:06, 30 July 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Malik Shabazz
Many of these edits were performed by User:MShabazz - a confirmed alternate of Malik Shabazz, when looking through contributions both accounts should be examined. For the sake of limiting the amount of diffs, I did not list all of the edits to each article above. I ordered diffs by article.
Additional comments by IcewhizLinda Sarsour, the entire article, was placed under DS on 21 December 2017. This was discussed in Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive 4#Scope of article sanctions, including by Malik Shabazz here - 17:29, 27 December 2017 who said Discussion concerning Malik ShabazzStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Malik ShabazzI reject the overbroad interpretation of ARBPIA that Icewhiz likes to adopt concerning my editing, such as the notion that Religion in Israel and sources concerning the existence of the Second Temple are included within ARBPIA.[11] Today, Icewhiz argues that criticism of one American by another American is within ARBPIA and that discussion of an Israeli law that only affects Israeli citizens are within ARBPIA. I concede that editing Avera Mengistu was probably a violation of my topic ban. I merely did some clean-up to other editors' additions, but I didn't stop to think that he is an Israeli missing in Gaza, believed to be held by Hamas. I sincerely apologize for improving Wikipedia and promise I will never do that again. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 15:17, 29 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by KingsindianThese are all obviously topic-ban violations. I have latterly noticed many bitter comments from Malik Shabazz. I'll give some unsolicited advice: he should stay away from this topic on Wikipedia. Look at it this way: in none of the discussions would his absence have had made any difference to the final outcome. Wikipedia is not worth darkening your mood for. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 08:19, 29 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Malik Shabazz
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Ceoil
Ceoil is cautioned against presuming bad faith against newer accounts and encouraged to pause and reflect if they are crossing into ownership territory before posting. A reminder to all editors that approaching an admin about adding restrictions aimed at limiting repeated unproductive infobox arguments is a more constructive path to take. Editing restriction on Ezra Pound implemented earlier. --NeilN talk to me 00:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ceoil
See block log.
In an ongoing infobox discussion at Talk:Ezra Pound, Ceoil has been persistent in their attempts to poison the well and draw the discussion away from content by raising vague accusations of sockpuppetry and sleeper accounts. As I pointed out at Ceoil's talk page 21:06 21 July 2018 and at article talk 22:37 21 July 2018, these accusations, even if well-supported, should be discussed at user talk or the appropriate noticeboard. This ongoing series of accusations only serves to impede the consensus-building process and cast unfounded suspicion on editors with whom they disagree. Please see the talk page permalink for context. @Ceoil: I'd like to address a few of the links given by Ceoil: [12] - This is Ceoil's revert of content added to the "Disinfoboxes" essay in 2012, completely unrelated to Ceoil's recent accusations of sockpuppetry. [13] - This is a list of reasons to oppose an infobox proposal from 2012. Only one item in the list (place of birth) is applicable to the current proposal and, again, not related to the current accusations of sockpuppetry. [14] - Part of a series of edits made over several hours, which combine to form this quite different version. Regardless of the nature of the content dispute or conduct of other editors, article talk is not the place to make these repeated accusations, and uninvestigated suspicions of sockpuppetry are not a reason to close a discussion or discount the opinions of other editors. –dlthewave ☎ 21:50, 29 July 2018 (UTC) @Victoriaearle: The issue at hand is Ceoil's conduct which is unrelated to and not justified by other editors' conduct, however I do need to address a few parts of the statement. Part of the discussion did end on July 17, at which time the article contained an infobox added by Victoriaearle on July 16. The box was removed by Ghirlandajo on July 21 with an edit summary of "rmv boxclutter" which is why I reopened the discussion on that day. –dlthewave ☎ 22:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC) To the closing admins: Personal attacks and accusations of sockpuppetry are the sort of thing that's regularly sanctioned at ANI. It's understandable that longtime editors of the article are frustrated by the constant discussion, however I'm not sure how a history of sockpuppetry in this area is supposed to excuse the behavior. This was brought to AE because we have a lower tolerance for this behavior in DS areas. –dlthewave ☎ 16:47, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CeoilStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CeoilI welcome arb attention to ongoing issues of sock puppetry in infobox discussions, the methods of enabling and signalling, and the ongoing and often successful programmes of targeted baiting.[16][17][18][19][20] This move by Dlthewave is to distract from the fact that consensus is against him at the the Ezra Pound talk page, and follows a series of attempted baitings effectively to take me out of the game. I stand over my arguments against the inclusion of a template on this article only, which comprise 90% of my recent postings there, while my concerns about sockpuppeting are based on observations of patterns and behaviours. Note in the recent discussion, the incumbent editors are forced to make the same points over and over,[21][22][23][24][25] to multiple deaf ears, in a short span of time, until, it seems we break.[26][27][28]. At the very least, as an ip wrote today, we should respect WP:Don't bludgeon the process, which seems to be a long standing technique. Ceoil (talk) 19:40, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SarahSVCeoil, a main author of Ezra Pound, Sandstein, it would be extraordinarily unfair if Ceoil were topic-banned from Pound. He's been editing it since 2007 and helping to shape it on article talk and other talk pages. He was also one of the FA nominators. There is nothing here that rises to the level of a sanction. What would be extremely helpful is if an admin were to add an infobox-discussion restriction of the kind added here to Talk:Stanley Kubrick. SarahSV (talk) 15:04, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by VictoriaearleThe discussion came to an end, then four days later Dlthewave inexplicably opened a new thread. What's happening there is excruciating, there's an insidious and systematic push to add a box, although consensus for a box hasn't been established in in eight years, despite many long discussions. There has been bad behavior all around, some more civil than others, (I think reopening a thread when a contentious discussions fades, is the definition of inciviliy) and yet Dlthewave chooses to report only Ceoil. If one editor is reported and sanctioned, then we should open reports on the behavior of the editors throughout. It would be even better for a trusted wiki elder or administrator to have the courage to close the discussion. What's happening there isn't healthy, neither for the editors involved or for the project as a whole. Should Ceoil be sanctioned, then I'd be happy to add diffs regarding Gerda's blatant canvassing, CurlyTurkey's comments to me that were far from the definition of civil, the edits from new editors, and the ongoing bludgeoning. Per FoF 2 of the original 2013 case, a box isn't required and the baiting there (which frankly has been ongoing for years) falls squarely into FoF 6 of the 2018 case. Victoriaearle (tk) 20:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Outriggr
Statement by ModernistAlthough I was not a participant in the discussion currently being discussed; I am a long standing editor on the Ezra Pound article and I have participated in countless discussions regarding whether or not to include an infobox in the Pound article. Pound's complicated life as pointed out by Victoriaearle and others make including an infobox a difficult proposition. I have worked with Ceoil and others on the article and in my opinion Ceoil is an important, knowledgeable and informed editor who has successfully brought the Ezra Pound article to Featured status. Everything that I observed Ceoil add regarding the current discussion seemed both reasonable and intelligent. In my opinion the discussion should be closed, and no infobox added...Modernist (talk) 23:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by TuckerResearch(1) User:Ceoil shows clear ownership behavior on this article, even his allies note that he is a "main author of Ezra Pound." (2) But what is worse, I think, is his sheer incivility to editors he disagrees with about having an infobox on this page. Much evidence can be found on archived versions of the talkpage, such as Talk:Ezra Pound/Archive 2 (I don't have the time to go back and pick out diffs there). But here I offer some diffs from the current Talk:Ezra Pound page to illustrate Ceoil's untoward behavior to fellow editors, and his complete failure to assume good faith in his fellow editors:
The guy may be a good editor. In fact, I think the Ezra Pound article is pretty good. But User:Ceoil's uncivil behavior towards editors who disagree with him on the infobox issue should not go unnoticed. It is off-putting to both rookie and experienced editors and, I believe, violates Wikipedia policy. TuckerResearch (talk) 04:10, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SMcCandlish@Drmies: 'sure, one shouldn't "own" articles, but some of these editors have devoted significant time and energy to it' is difficult to distinguish from 'sure, one shouldn't be seen to "own" articles, but some of these editors have devoted significant time and energy to it, so we should quietly let them own pages and pretend we're not'. And 'some of these editors ... have, we can surmise, some expertise' is irrelevant. They could be the world's foremost authority on the topic of the article and this would have no bearing on a layout/formatting question like infoboxes. I'm glad you agree with Masem on at least some of the basic issue. The problem with assuming that a new editor is a sock is that every editor is new, when they're new, yet only a tiny fraction of them are socks. Given the frequency with which people use the information in infoboxes (they're called that for a reason), one going missing, or simply being seen as missing when similar articles have one, is a fairly likely impetus for someone to newly become an editor, especially if they don't feel they have much to contribute to verifiable article content yet. Even an eight-year-old can put together an argument for why this article should have the same feature as that other article they were reading a minute ago. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:34, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
I agree with SarahSV's "What would be extremely helpful is if an admin were to add an infobox-discussion restriction of the kind added ... to Talk:Stanley Kubrick". Even if it's not a bunch of socking, it's tedious, and WP:CCC doesn't mean "keep pushing argumentum ad nauseam until you WP:WIN through attrition". What I don't agree with is the notion that any sanction would be unfair. That's a false dichotomy. It's not like every sanction has to be a year-long topic-ban or block. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Ceoil
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Expectant of Light
No action. Editor was not aware of the discretionary sanctions in the area, but I’ve alerted them now. I’ve full protected the article for a week as a regular admin action. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Expectant of Light
User persists in his attempts to insert POV labels and disputed content by edit-warring, despite there's an ongoing discussion in talk page.
Discussion concerning Expectant of LightStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Expectant of LightI don't know whether I have violated the 3RR rule or not. I made 3 reverts on 29 July and 3 reverts on 30 July. I don't know how they go together. However the filer mentions the ongoing discussion but he himself continued to push his contested edits without waiting for consensus. That's why I reverted him. And in my last edit summary I explain in detail why I though the version was right. If he cared for consensus building he would have replied to my edit description in the ongoing talk instead of taking me here. He's been blocked several times for edit-warring himself. --Expectant of Light (talk) 23:29, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Expectant of Light
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פֿינצטערניש
User blocked and topic-banned. Sandstein 08:39, 5 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning פֿינצטערניש
Note that the user changed their username from Finsternish to פֿינצטערניש on 11:47, 3 August 2018 - the DS alert was issued to Finsternish prior to this.
Discussion concerning פֿינצטערנישStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by פֿינצטערנישIf you look on the edit history of the page about Dareen Tatour you will see that my edits were removing several clear attempts to push the reporting user's POV, which the user was blatantly re-adding. They were even working to make the article conform more to their POV by removing statements that were previously in the lead, such as the condemnation of Tatour's arrest, imprisonment, and conviction at the hands of the Israeli police and justice system, despite this international condemnation being the sole reason for her notability (after all, not all of the thousands of people convicted of terrorism charges in Israel for social media posts has a Wikipedia page). The user responded by threatening to report me for editing an article despite having less than 500 edits. I responded by insulting them, because it was clear to me that they had no concern whatsoever for the quality of Wikipedia and were only there to make Israel look good. In their eyes, Wikipedia should toe the Israeli government's party line and make excuses for it, rather than reporting on all the facts. And they are willing to go to any means necessary - including abuse of systems such as this one - to ensure that their POV is represented. See also the discussion on the talk page for Human Rights on Israel - a page that, unlike the one on Dareen Tatour, is protected against me editing it, which is the reasonable way to enforce such an arbitration decision - where I ask that something be added to the article and the user responds by parroting the Israeli government's party line instead of agreeing to edit the article to point out the controversy over Israel's suppression of poets, and its condemnation at the hands of one of the oldest free speech advocacy organizations in the world with a long history of condemning injustice everywhere, not just Israel. I stand by all of this. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC) I'd also like to add that if Israel wants Wikipedia to make them look good, it should stop doing things that are indefensible instead of getting other people to control the facts that end up in encyclopedias about it. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:46, 5 August 2018 (UTC) On the point about protecting the article being the reasonable method of enforcement: The reporting user could have simply asked an administrator to protect the page, so why did they instead leave a message on my talk page telling me that I'm not allowed to edit it? The former method is a fool-proof way of making sure that contributors with less than 500 edits to the English Wikipedia can't edit; the latter only informs one user. So what was the reason? Because they are a bumbler with no conception of how Wikipedia works? Or was there some ulterior motive? It doesn't look like it's the former. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 08:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning פֿינצטערניש
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