Galamore
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Galamore
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Ecrusized (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Galamore (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
Removing referenced statements & replacing with original research
Gaza Health Ministry
1. 15:12, 13 May 2024
Rafah offensive
2. 09:55, 9 May 2024
General 1RR violations:
Rafah offensive
1. 09:55, 9 May 2024 - Referenced sentence removed
Palestinian political violence
2. 17:19, 8 May 2024 - User revert
War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war
3. 08.13, 25 April 2024 - Referenced sentence removed
Gaza–Israel conflict
4. 17:56, 24 April 2024 - User revert
Zionism
5. 21:05, 21 April 2024 - User revert
Israel and apartheid
6. 15:38, 21 April 2024 - User revert
Palestinian political violence
7. 14:35, 21 April 2024 - User revert
2024 Israeli strikes on Iran
8. 16:58, 19 April 2024 - User revert
9. 09:25, 19 April 2024 - Reverted to a previous version
10. 08:25, 19 April 2024 - Sentence removed without edit summary
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 11:20, 14 April 2024
- Warned by another user about 1RR violation on 10:45, 14 April 2024. Did not self-revert.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I typically don't mind trivial 1RR violations if they were made in good faith. However, it struck me that the user had made hundreds of copy edits, from 20 to 31 March 2024, spamming categories to articles, in order to pass the 500 edit requirement for extended confirmed protection. Subsequently, they solely began editing controversial ECP articles in an aggressive manner. Additionally, it concerns me that the user was previously blocked for not disclosing their paid editing. Ecrusized (talk) 18:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Galamore
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Galamore
Hi, everyone My name is Gal, Gal the teacher (in Hebrew with English letters it comes out GALAMORE). I entered Wikipedia because I wanted to write about technology, I wrote the article on Perplexity.ai (which received 568,902 views so far!!), after I wrote about a few more high-tech companies I was temporarily blocked and warned not to engage in business matters probably for fear of receiving money for it. Almost every morning, before I start teaching, I go to Wikipedia to edit and I enjoy it very much. I am Israeli, so the Israel related topics interest me. If it is relevant, politically, in Israel I believe in peace with our neighbors and want an end to wars. When I see something that is biased, I try to balance it and bring sources from both sides. Even if there is an Israeli editor who makes claims that are "in favor of Israel" but are not substantiated, I will correct it - because I truly believe in balanced coverage of topics. I am not obssessive to my edits, I just enjoy adding information and I think it is productive to humanity.
On this occasion, may I ask where and when can I request that the prohibition to write on tech companies be removed? Galamore (talk) 07:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal
- Regarding the WP:OR concerns:
- At Rafah offensive they removed:
In addition, the offensive resulted in the temporary closure of the Kerem Shalom and Rafah crossings, further exacerbating the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
- In their edit summary they said
Kerem Shalom was closed due to the Hamas attacks, and now reopened, this is wrong and outdated.
- The first part of their claim appears to be correct; the source provided for the content says:
But Israel closed the Kerem Shalom crossing after a Hamas attack on Sunday killed four soldiers in the area, then mounted an incursion on Tuesday that closed the Rafah crossing along the border with Egypt.
- At Gaza Health Ministry they changed the lede from:
The GHM's casualty reports have received significant attention during the course of the Gaza–Israel conflict. GHM's casualty reports are considered credible by two scientific studies published in The Lancet.
- To:
The casualty reports issued by the GHM during the Israel–Hamas war have been subject to significant scrutiny. While some advocate for their accuracy, others cast doubt on their reliability.
- This change appears defensible based on the body which includes claims that the figures are reliable alongside claims that they are unreliable. BilledMammal (talk) 19:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
Warned by another user about 1RR violation on 10:45, 14 April 2024. Did not self-revert.
- They appear to have attempted to self revert this violation, with 07:52, 14 April 2024 - however they self-reverted the wrong edit, 07:09, 14 April 2024 rather than 07:36, 14 April 2024. BilledMammal (talk) 19:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Since Selfstudier has linked it and it relates to two of the editors involved here, this comment, which was made by Ecrusized, wasn't appropriate in my opinion:
the latest change seems to come from virtually inexperienced editors, Galamore and GidiD with a heavy Israeli bias
- It only adds heat to the topic. BilledMammal (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
Statement by Zero0000
OP doesn't seem to know what 1RR means. Zerotalk 09:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
For the sake of completeness, see also Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Galamore, gaming the system Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
And the discussion Talk:Israel–Hamas war#UN changes reported casualty figures.Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Galamore
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Ecrusized, can you break the 1RR violations down by article, and have they been warned about or asked to revert any 1RR violations? I don't see any engagement about that on their talk page. No comment yet on possible OR issues. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Black Kite and Drmies: just making sure you're aware this thread is here. The reported 1rr violations don't seem to be violations, but I am concerned about the edit warring over content that socks and editors banned and tbanned by Arbcom had been edit warring over. I try not to judge content choices unless there is a clear issue, and the edits to the lead are a summary of parts of the body. I think NPOV is a bit lacking, but it's not flagrant and I'm not sure if that alone is enough for action. Combining that with the history of the content being edit warred over brings me a lot closer to a sanction. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- What I said at the AN/I thread: Speaking as the administrator who a few months ago indeffed Galamore as a suspected UPE, after they wrote several extremely promotional articles about non-notable subjects: this doesn't seem like gaming the system. This seems like somebody -- I despise more than anybody for this to be true, but I must admit it -- editing in good faith, or at least not doing anything visibly wrong, along the rules that we explicitly tell them that they have to follow. If we don't think that "500 edits and one month" is enough for someone to edit CT articles, we shouldn't have thousands of words of policy teling people, repeatedly, in no uncertain terms, that making 500 edits and having an account for a month is required to edit CT articles. jp×g🗯️ 19:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- JPxG, are you at all concerned about their continuing an edit war primarily edited on one side by socks and people banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing and proxying? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- I haven't had the chance to dig into this yet (though I will try to over the next couple of days), but I will say that such guidelines should not be treated like black-letter law which can have "loopholes". We can take an extreme case, say that an editor makes an account, waits thirty days, and then runs a script which adds and then removes a single character from their sandbox 500 times. It is perfectly valid, in such a case, to say "That is not what we meant, and that doesn't count. Make 500 real edits before you start editing in this area." Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:28, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, if it is literally somebody adding and removing a period from their sandbox that is one thing, but if it's five hundred non-deleted, non-reverted edits that improve the articles they're being made on, we have to accept that this was what we told people to do. jp×g🗯️ 08:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I mentioned at the AN posting about this, I saw the edits when they started editing in ARBPIA, and they looked constructive enough where I didn't take any action then. Those types of edits combined with immediately leaping into a long-term edit war that has been pushed by a sock, and had been supported by editors banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing/proxying is more concerning, and I think that is where we should focus. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Noting that I have indefinitely topic banned the filer of this report, which doesn't actually clear up my concerns about Galamore. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I mentioned at the AN posting about this, I saw the edits when they started editing in ARBPIA, and they looked constructive enough where I didn't take any action then. Those types of edits combined with immediately leaping into a long-term edit war that has been pushed by a sock, and had been supported by editors banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing/proxying is more concerning, and I think that is where we should focus. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Seraphimblade, I'm thinking a topic ban of 6 months and 500 edits in this circumstance. That forces more out-of-topic contributions, gives them more experience, and puts them further from any sock/proxy/canvass concerns. I'm also okay with no action if you're not convinced. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see doing anything time-limited here. If you're going to do any sanction, I think it ought to be indefinite, but very much in the "indefinite need not mean permanent" vein, and that constructive edits in other areas would likely be viewed favorably at a future appeal. I also don't think they've been previously warned, so unless I'm wrong about that, another thing to consider would be a logged warning, with a clear understanding that further issues will all but certainly result in a topic ban. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Logged warning for what, though? The NPOV stuff wasn't out of the norm. For me it really comes down to concerns about resuming an edit war where socks and canvased editors were originally taking part. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Then I would think for that? Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Logged warning for what, though? The NPOV stuff wasn't out of the norm. For me it really comes down to concerns about resuming an edit war where socks and canvased editors were originally taking part. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see doing anything time-limited here. If you're going to do any sanction, I think it ought to be indefinite, but very much in the "indefinite need not mean permanent" vein, and that constructive edits in other areas would likely be viewed favorably at a future appeal. I also don't think they've been previously warned, so unless I'm wrong about that, another thing to consider would be a logged warning, with a clear understanding that further issues will all but certainly result in a topic ban. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, if it is literally somebody adding and removing a period from their sandbox that is one thing, but if it's five hundred non-deleted, non-reverted edits that improve the articles they're being made on, we have to accept that this was what we told people to do. jp×g🗯️ 08:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
AtikaAtikawa
Blocked one week for ECR violations. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning AtikaAtikawa
Background evidence: 18 May 2024 AtikaAtikawa knows how to post an edit request Various comments on Talk:War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war (permalink)
Creation of Israel–Palestine conflict userboxes
Polemicizing in MfDs for the aforementioned userboxes:
The editor has eight mainspace edits. All of their mainspace edits have been made between January and September 2020. The editor has 177 total edits, of which 31.1% have been deleted. 69.7% of their live edits have been to userspace. The user is generally inactive as an editor of Wikipedia, but has increased activity probably due to interest in the Arab–Israeli conflict, but instead of resuming normal editorial activity, which would mean making edit requests for a while, the activity has been predominantly polemical. Therefore, seeing all of this user's edits in total, the user is WP:NOTHERE.
Discussion concerning AtikaAtikawaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by AtikaAtikawaAs for the comments on Talk:War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war. I acknowledge that I failed at understanding ECR limitations when I made them; A rookie mistake that stems from the fact that I just started having interest in editing Wikipedia, and I'm still familiarising myself with the rules. In fact I was warned and I did obey. Briefly, I acknowledge my mistake here. As for the userboxes. I hope that you take into consideration my arguments in their MfD entries. Basically, I think that Alalch E. is assuming bad faith since he is accusing me of endorsing violence and deeming atrocities as just with no basis, and I think that I actually clarified that through the documentation that the filer deemed as "apologia for violence including atrocities against civilians" when it is just a statement of a viewpoint, that is against violence from both sides. As for the polemical comments. They were basically just answers to comments that were polemical themselves rather than referring clearly to policies that I did break. I totally understands that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm really open to advices that concern how could I have handled this better. As stated above, I'm well aware that I'm unexperienced, and I hope that my niche interest in the Arab-Israeli conflict will not be somehow held against me, rather I hope for whatever answer I'll get to this to contain referrals to the rules I broke in order to be mindful to them from now on. I acknowledge that my behaviour was suboptimal, and I acknowledge that it did stem from a potential lack of understanding the rules from my part, and I welcome any decision that comes from your part with the hope that it will serve the noble goal of making me a better editor with a better service to the encyclopedia rather than punishment just for the sake of it.— Yours Truly, ⚑ AtikaAtikawa 15:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by SelfstudierTechnical picky point, defendant is non EC and not permitted to make statements here (or anywhere, really). An admin could/should deal with this? Selfstudier (talk) 15:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by The KipSeconding Selfstudier here - the defendant is several hundred edits short of XC status anyways, so this should be a fairly textbook warning (or TBAN) for violating the ARBPIA XC restriction rather than a drawn-out AE case. The Kip (contribs) 16:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by Vice regent@Alalch E.: can you remove this inflammatory comment? There are AGF interpretations of AtikaAtikawa's userbox, and these were given by Robert McClenon and Chaotic Enby. AtikaAtikawa themself wrote that the userbox doesn't support political violence, yet you still throw words like "pro-terrorism" around, and that raises the temperature.VR (Please ping on reply) 21:48, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning AtikaAtikawa
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by אקעגן
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- אקעגן (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – אקעגן (talk) 15:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- 1 week block for ECR violations
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by אקעגן
I only made a change to a talk page, which is usually the way I can make my opinions known on a locked or protected page. The notice that it was only for extended confirmed users was on the top of the section, and not on the top of the page, so I missed it. I believe a week block is fairly severe under this circumstance. I have read through CTOP and ARBECR, and will abide by these rules to avoid this in the future.
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
I told them You could also read the information that was provided about the WP:CTOP designation on the Arab/Israel conflict and WP:ARBECR and demonstrate that you understand and will abide by the sanctions in the topic area in an unblock request
and yet we're still here. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would like a demonstration that they understand, rather than simply stating they understand. In my experience a lack of demonstration leads to further blocks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:33, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Newyorkbrad, I've read and understand everything. I also didn't read the block message that explains unblock requests. This is why I require a demonstration that they understand. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Starship.paint, actually explain how their edits violated the sanction, what is covered by the sanction, and how they'll avoid future violations. The same general gist we expect of all unblock requests. See WP:GAB which is linked in the block template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by אקעגן
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by starship.paint
אקעגן said that they have read through CTOP and ARBECR, and will abide by these rules
. I think that's good enough for an unblock. If they abide by these rules, and not WP:GAME ARBECR, we should be fine? Don't make 100+ trivial edits to reach 500 edits. starship.paint (RUN) 14:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: - you have made a mistake, this is not a complaint, this is a block appeal. starship.paint (RUN) 15:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: - you linked to a complaint at WP:ANI, but this is not a complaint. Editors are allowed to appeal their blocks, even if they have violated WP:ARBECR. In fact ScottishFinnishRadish copied over this appeal from אקעגן talk page, so if it was not allowed, I am pretty sure ScottishFinnishRadish would not have done that. starship.paint (RUN) 15:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - what demonstration can an editor make when still blocked? starship.paint (RUN) 15:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
Complainant per WP:ARBECR has no standing to even make this complaint and it should be dismissed with prejudice. See, for example see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive356#Selfstudier "As a non-EC editor, you essentially have no standing to make edits related to the topic. You can make an edit request, but any other editor can remove it, even without providing reason. Further, making a complaint against another editor as a non-EC editor in the WP:ARBPIA area is fully not allowed." Selfstudier (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: WP:ARBECR limits editors to edit requests at article talk pages, no exceptions. Blocked for ARBECR breach, complaint not allowed. Selfstudier (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: No, because this is merely an ARBECR continuation, the editor has no standing to do anything in relation to the topic area except make edit requests. Selfstudier (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Newyorkbrad: I don't object to an editor being permitted to edit in non CT areas, in fact we are trying to encourage that with ECR restrictions. Then, for the future imposed sanctions for ECR breach should be such that no appeal is permitted, time limited tbans? Selfstudier (talk) 15:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: No, because this is merely an ARBECR continuation, the editor has no standing to do anything in relation to the topic area except make edit requests. Selfstudier (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
I have a question for אקעגן. You were notified of the ARBPIA restrictions on 2024-03-20, and by convention, the assumption is that you read it because you removed it. You then made 9 edits to Portal:Current events/2024 to include content unambiguously within scope of the restrictions over a period of a month or so. Why did you think that was okay and what could have prevented it? Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier's reasoning is interesting. Not sure I buy the "this is not a complaint" idea. It is a complaint against something, an admin action, the severity of the action, and it's a block appeal. It can be both. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by אקעגן
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The ECR violation appears to have resulted from a good-faith misunderstanding, and the appellant indicates he now understands the issue, so I would grant the appeal. It's worth bearing in mind sometimes that ECR is a major change from how Wikipedia usually works, and that the nuances of the rules surrounding it are not inherently obvious to editors who don't spend much of their wikilives on the arbitration pages. @ScottishFinnishRadish: Based on reading the user talkpage, I think the appellant did not understand that your suggestion of "an unblock request" was a different process from an AE or AN appeal, especially since the appeal contains the same substance you suggested for the unblock request. @Selfstudier: The block prevents the editor from editing not just IP topics but Wikipedia as a whole, so there is clearly standing to appeal it. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- The original block was clearly justified, but I believe it is now very clear to this editor what is and is not allowed (as to some side discussion above, appealing a sanction is a longstanding exception to being a violation of that or any sanction, so of course blocked or otherwise sanctioned editors are permitted to appeal). So, at this point I would essentially reduce it to "time served". Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Sentaso
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Sentaso
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- TarnishedPath (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Sentaso (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- User_talk:Sentaso#Introduction_to_contentious_topics In this discussion I have advised them of what existing consensus is at Nick McKenzie
- 10:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC) Sentaso edits the archives of Talk:Nick McKenzie to insert a thread that never happened in the article talk. In their thread they make accusations that editors have "vandalizing this page" in reference to the talk archive without providing evidence. Additionally they have stated that JML1148, who closed an RFC, broke WP guidelines and again without providing evidence. Finally they have claimed that "It appears several Australian WP editors with possible conflicts of interest re. Mckenzie are attempting to whitewash his WP page". They have not provided any evidence for their claims of bad faith.
- 12:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC) Editor stated in a response to myself "You were dishonest with your initial reply stating "Consensus was determined to be that the material should not be covered at all" when the consensus was the opposite"". Editor has not provided any evidence for claims of my bad faith.
- 7:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor has reverted Talk:Nick McKenzie/Archive 1 to reinsert a discussion in there that never happened at Talk:Nick McKenzie
- 8:40, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor is WP:BADGERING me on my talk page in relation to Talk:Nick McKenzie by repeating to ask a question which I'd previously chosen not to answer because it is aggressive and meaningless.
- 8:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor is casting WP:ASPERSIONs in regards to my editing at Nick McKenzie. Once again evidence is not provided for the claims being made.
- 10:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor has reverted my talk page restoring a post that I archived after I [[Special:Diff/1226872000|specifically told them to never, under any circumstances, post on my talk page again. Post was in regards to Nick McKenzie.
- 10:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC) continued to post of my talk in violation of my request to not post on my talk page. Again post was in regards to Nick McKenzie.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Gave an alert about contentious topics in the area of conflict to another editor, on 02:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Editor had edited Nick McKenzie to insert material which RfC determined should not be in the article. Upon being advised by myself of consensus (as determined by RfC close) and what they could do if disagree with the close, editor has sought to misinterpret WP policy and engaged in casting WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:ABF. Editor appears to be a WP:SPA who is editing to WP:RGW. TarnishedPathtalk 14:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I have updated the diffs to include a revert that the editor just performed to re-insert a discussion into Talk:Nick McKenzie's archives which never occurred in the article talk. TarnishedPathtalk 07:38, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Sentaso, I have moved your comment to your section. Please write any comments you have in your section of the notice. TarnishedPathtalk 09:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Special:Diff/1226739756
Discussion concerning Sentaso
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Sentaso
2. @TarnishedPath: JML1148 in their own words stated "numerical majority against removing the content" and then claimed there was consensus to remove the content.
- Yes, yourself and others related to this appear to be Australian as per your Wikipedia profiles. Mckenzie is Australian, and there's seems to be a commonality of those in favor of removing content related him are also Australian. Certainly potential for Conflict_of_interest
3. Evidence was in point 2 above re JML1148 comment.
4. I didn't reinsert anything, I don't know why you're making things up that WP history shows to be false. I added to the discussion highlighting it had been prematurely closed. I've also asked who/when the discussion was deemed over and with what authority, which you didn't answer. If yourself and associates had followed WP best practice there would clear sections on the page detailing why the page would be archived. The page has been blasted with text claiming the discussion is closed, but there appears to be no grounds for closure. I've asked you several times if you could source why this page was archived, which you've ignored, likely because you cannot.
5. As per comments on their Talk page (which he keeps removing) it appears TarnishedPath does not understand some aspects of WP:BLP.
A quote of yours from the Mckenzie archive "if McKenzie is not named, then what is the material doing on a WP:BLP about McKenzie? TarnishedPathtalk 00:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)"
BLPs do not always need to explicitly mention the subject's name as long as the information can be clearly and unambiguously attributed to the subject
6. Duplicate content, see my point 2 above.
7. You don't understand BLP, one should be grateful I highlighted your misunderstanding on your talk page
8. Duplicate content
Sentaso (talk) 09:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Regarding comments below, these references to talk pages are a red herring. The real issue is why the Mckenzie discussion page was archived, the sham RFC and why BLP is not being followed correctly for the Mckenzie page. Tarnished Path falsely suggested that BLP need to name the person which is incorrect. I did him a favor by raising this issue on his talk page and he gets aggressive and removes the content. Why not focus on the main issues instead of the number of edits a user has? Unhelpful Sentaso (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Sentaso
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I see one edit to the article, and some snarky discussion that displays they don't understand BLP. If they can demonstrate some understanding of WP:BLP I'd be willing to let this to with a warning. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd suggest that editing Tarnished Path's talk page four times after they'd been asked not to post there, included reverting Tarnished Path's own edits, is suggestive that they don't understand a lot more than BLP. (They've edited the article seven times, incidentally). When you also take into account the insertion into a talk page Archive of a discussion that never happened at that page, together with casting aspersions at other editors of COI and whitewashing (same diff), I'm unconvinced that an editor with 87 edits and this much disruption is a net positive at all. Black Kite (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, Sentaso, they're not a red herring, they're persistent poor editing behaviour and are a large part of your very limited editing history. Most good-faith editors amass hundreds if not thousands of edits without even one of those issues coming up, let alone multiple ones. He told you to stay off his talk page. You didn't, because you think you know better (" I did him a favor by raising this issue on his talk page"). You don't. What you need to say here is what you're going to do better in the future. Black Kite (talk) 17:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- The 87 edits is why I'd let this go with a warning if there was a demonstration that they understand the issue and will remedy it. I'm not opposed to something more substantial, however. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Absolutely. I do not see this from their comments here, however. Black Kite (talk) 07:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd suggest that editing Tarnished Path's talk page four times after they'd been asked not to post there, included reverting Tarnished Path's own edits, is suggestive that they don't understand a lot more than BLP. (They've edited the article seven times, incidentally). When you also take into account the insertion into a talk page Archive of a discussion that never happened at that page, together with casting aspersions at other editors of COI and whitewashing (same diff), I'm unconvinced that an editor with 87 edits and this much disruption is a net positive at all. Black Kite (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
LokiTheLiar
No issues with the notification to the LGBT Wikiproject. BilledMammal, when you're frequently the target of accusations that you're weaponizing AE maybe don't weaponize AE in this way. You're more than aware of the community consensus around these notifications, as you've been involved in some of the discussions where it has come up. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning LokiTheLiar
Notified a partisan forum, violating WP:CANVASS. They were aware of this issue, and the RfC that this is a repeat of raised the same issue, but they rejected it and decided to issue the notification anyway. That this is canvassing can be seen in the evidence below, which analyses three recent RfC's held at the Village Pump and proves that the WikiProject is non-representative on this topic, with a collective opinion that deviates by a significant margin from that of the broader community. These WP:ARBCOM principles are also relevant (emphasis mine):
Note that this only applies to transgender topics. As far as I know the Wikiproject is not partisan on other topics within its area of interest and thus there are no issues with notifying them on those topics.
Other issues related to this RfC including misrepresenting sources; they have claimed that the Telegraph
There was a consensus in that discussion that notifying Wikiprojects is almost never canvassing; given the number of editors who qualified their comments there wasn’t a consensus that it never is. Further, this is a contentious topic; editors should stay well clear of violating policy, and notifying a fora that is known to be partisan isn’t doing that, regardless of what you believe consensus at an informal and non-specific discussion says. 12:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning LokiTheLiarStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LokiTheLiarI anticipated that this user would make a tendentious report like this based on comments made on previous discussions, which is why I asked the village pump about this situation before I did it. In short, there is a strong and recent community consensus that notifying all relevant Wikiprojects is not WP:CANVASSING. And I would like to point out to any admins evaluating here that BilledMammal must know this because they participated in the thread. Loki (talk) 11:51, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
A statement by starship.paintI'm really not sure about this. Is it a surprise that WP:LGBT would be partisan on LGBT issues? No. But is the topic of the coverage of trans issues by the Telegraph related to WP:LGBT? Definitely yes? starship.paint (RUN) 09:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by SelfstudierEchoing starship.paint. In AI area, we routinely post to 3 projects, one each on either side and the other theoretically neutral. Here there is no other "side" so presumably editors with an interest in the subject matter camp out at the given project and then we are led to believe there is evidence that this forum is "partisan". Not convinced that this is a sufficient reason to invoke canvassing, though, it's not as if it isn't being done in plain sight and projects are seemingly a natural place to advertise a discussion. Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by TarnishedPathThis is a particularly frivolous report that has been brought.
This should be closed with no action. TarnishedPathtalk 12:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Colin
Crap. I was referring to this RSN discussion where Loki wrote what I said he did and in which I participated. Seems there's now a second discussion on the very same page about the same thing. WTF Loki, what a mess. Didn't you RTM about not polling unless there was a clear consensus for your proposal? It was already an uphill battle to convince anyone to deprecate the Telegraph on this matter without you opening with careless comments about the cat litter story and then essentially saying that because they don't accept trans women are women, or have been interviewing The Wrong People, the are actually unreliable vs just believe different things to you. BilledMammal apologies about this. I think part of your latest post here is still wrong, but this isn't the forum to discuss that. Overall, though, I think BilledMammal should withdraw this. Being Wrong on the Internet isn't a crime and hasn't helped Loki's RFC. The notification thing clearly isn't something you've persuaded people here about, so likely is an area that needs some work elsewhere, where it isn't focussing on an individual. Since the RFC is a spectacular failure anyway, couldn't you just have got some popcorn? -- Colin°Talk 12:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by -scheSuggest trout for BilledMammal per Colin and TarnishedPath; notifying relevant wikiprojects (Loki notified the journalism, LGBT and UK projects and the NEWS page) is well- and long-established as fine, and (as pointed out above) was just recently affirmed. That BilledMammal presented his argument so recently in the VPP and consensus was clearly that notifying relevant projects is appropriate makes this filing look...tendentious; I don't know if it's forum-shopping per se, but it comes across as WP:IDHT-y. -sche (talk) 17:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Your Friendly Neighborhood SociologistBM should recieve a warning, not just a trout, for wasting the community's time for a month over this issue and this ridiculous filing based on WP:IDHT. Some context:
BM is attempting to sanction an editor for upholding a consensus that BM is not only aware has existed for a decade, but has been re-affirmed 3 times in the last month. WP:TE and WP:IDHT are obvious. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning LokiTheLiar
|
JDiala
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning JDiala
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- FortunateSons (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- JDiala (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
User has a pattern of edit warring, incivility and NotForum violations, including but not limited to:
- 1 January 2024 improper use of Zionist and Soapboxing
- 14 February 2024 inappropriate use of “Zionist”, having received multiple warnings on their talk page; also Soapboxing warning by @ScottishFinnishRadish
- 28 March 2024 edit warring (most recent example)
- 26 April 2024 uses quotes by Yahya Sinwar on user page, removes them after inconclusive AN thread and request by Admin
- 27 May 2024 NotForum on Leo Frank, warned by @Acroterion @Doug Weller (see talk page)
- 29 May 2024 NotForum and two personal attacks, including against @BilledMammal
- 31 May 2024 Improper close followed by incivility
- Beans
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- Blocks 1 day in 2015, 1 Week in 2023 (both for edit warring in I/P area) by @Mike V and @Daniel Case
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [1] by @Doug Weller
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Issue is generally apparent on topics regarding I/P, with at least one occurrence in topics regarding Judaism. This is my first AE filing, so apologies for any errors.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JDiala&diff=prev&oldid=1227053862
Discussion concerning JDiala
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by JDiala
- The issue of the userpage quotes was brought up on WP:AN in this thread. The discussion was inconclusive. Two people on that thread arguing against me are proven or suspected sockpuppets (Galamore and ElLuzDelSur). Excluding them, far more people than not viewed the complaint as frivolous. Despite the inconclusive result, I voluntarily removed the quotes. Is this not indicative of my desire to be cooperative?
- A note on alleged edit-warring. The 28 March 2024 allegation of edit warring cites an allegation by SelfStudier without corresponding diffs. This is meritless. I admit there were three 1RR violations in November 2023. This was my first month following a near-decade WP hiatus. I don't think in recent months 1RR has been an issue for me.
- The issue of Leo Frank was an honest mistake where I mistakenly assumed that the sources for a particularly strong claim re: scholarly consensus came from a single CNN piece. Rejoinder to Red Rock Canyon: There are two citations in the lead, but the first has an unusual form "[n 1]" which struck me as a footnote. An honest error.
- The discussion on edits prior to 2016 is not fair. There needs to be a statute of limitations. FWIW I was born in the year 1998. I was a minor during those years.
- On the the self-closed RfC, this was an honest mistake, as I indicated in the AN discussion, based on a strict reading of WP:RFCEND which failed to take into account cultural norms regarding RfCs in contentious areas.
Update 06/05/24: In response to The Wordsmith's comment regarding recent diffs, I will say that while my tone was not the best, I think each case ultimately reflected a desire to cooperate and contribute meaningfully. I was not being uncivil for the sake of being uncivil. In this case it is true that I made an uncalled for comparison between closing an RfC and Israeli settlements. But the actual motivation here is to cooperate and accept that the community decided my RfC (and my closure) were not good and started a new one. In this case, I will concede that my tone was poor. The claim "[other] states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies" could be perceived as bigoted towards Israelis, and I should have worded it better in retrospect. I apologize to those offended. However, if one can get past the initial gut reaction that my comment was ridiculous, there was a legitimate underlying motivation. Other editors were questioning why other countries did not have war crimes in their leads, but Israel does. I responded with what I considered a policy-based reason for this: that WP:RS for Israel tends to disproportionately focus on war crimes (narrower focus), whereas for some other states (Russia, China) the RS discuss things more broadly ("richer"). That said, I will be more mindful of tone in the future if given a second chance.
Note: to stay within the 500-word limit after the update, I significantly shortened the points I wrote earlier.
JDiala (talk) 19:52, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Rajoub570
After posting a message on the admin noticeboard regarding this issue, I saw that there is already a discussion here. So reposting it here (shortened): The Israeli–Palestinian conflict, what is known here as ARBPIA, is a very sensitive issue. My personal opinion, as someone that the conflict also concerns his personal life (I am Palestinian :)) One should deal with the issue carefully. I would like to raise the issue of one editor - @JDiala's behavior that, as I see it, not only harm's Wikipedia's objectivity, but also harms the chance of a peaceful life in our area. Here are some examples:
- In the past, they featured quotes from Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar (who, no matter how we define him, is probably one of those responsible, along with Netanyahu and the extreme right from Israel, for the ongoing war) on their talk page [link], meant to praise Sinwar [link]. They were removed only after a lengthy discussion on this page.
- They currently have a quote on their talk page [link] that can be understood as a justification for the murder of Jews by Palestinians. I think that any quote that starts with "X do not go out to murder Y because they are Y" should not be acceptable on Wikipedia.
- A few days ago, they closed an RFC that they themselves opened, which raises a question of integrity [ongoing discussion: link].
- Recently, they stated that Israel is a rough state of the same level of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan [link]. In the same message they wrote that "For Israel, war crimes are a sine qua non, a core aspect of its existence", and stated that, unlike Israel, "Other states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies, with large economies, deep histories.", a weird comment.
I saw that editors have been asking them to moderate their language many times before. [link - 2014], [link - 2015], [link - January 2024], [link - February 2024].
The editor even received a week-long ban in December for violating 1RR. [link]
As a Palestinian, whose life is affected daily by the conflict, with my criticisms of Israel, I find this behavior problematic for Wikipedia. We have to stay objective. I think JDiala should be asked not to deal at all with a topic that clearly arouses their anger. Their edits hurt the project, and ultimately the Palestinians as well.
Please don't add fuel to the fire. Rajoub570 (talk) 15:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
I think both FortunateSons and JDiala are assets for ARBPIA. Very different kinds of assets with very different tones. This conversation shows how hard it is to build bridges and find common ground in ARBPIA. It would be good if JDiala could find a way to live with and adapt to what they regard as tone policing in the topic area. It's unfortunate that, in my view anyway, ARBCOM constraints accidentally create a selection pressure that give a fitness advantage to quiet, nearly invisible, highly motivated sockpuppets over noisy editors like JDiala.
Regarding "X do not go out to murder Y because they are Y", quotes from award winning Israeli journalists like Amira Hass are normally acceptable on Wikipedia. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by kashmiri
While certainly not raising to the level of an immediate block, the continuous low-lewel disruption by JDiala, evidenced above, has been annoying enough to many editors, including to me, that a temporary TBAN feels like an appropriate response. — kashmīrī TALK 17:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zanahary
Very BATTLEGROUND-y in a way that is disruptive. I'd support a TBAN. On the user page quote: though I find the quote disgusting, and my interpretation of its presence on the user page is, to say the least, not positive, I don't believe in trying to interpret editors' views when it comes to making decisions about how to treat them, nor in sanctioning editors for their apparent views—I think sanctions should only be practical, and I think everyone has the right to whatever expressions and whatever impressions they desire (out of article-space). But I understand I'm in a serious minority there (right?). Anyways, that's all irrelevant. This user is disruptive and clearly doesn't edit with the care and spirit of collaboration that this topic area demands. Zanahary (talk) 23:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Coffee Crumbs
For the record, I'm at least slightly involved now as I have expressed dislike of JDiala's tone during the current RFC. As Kashmiri notes, it's not vandalism or one big blowup, but tiny bits of pecking away. The RFC close was absolutely atrocious; rather than see an unusually sparsely attended RFC on what is normally a well-attended topic, JDiala took it upon themself to close their own RFC in favor of their own proposal in an extremely contentious area. Between the quotes that ended up at ANI and the constant pushing of the singular subject as far as civility and stretching WP:NPOV like taffy, JDiala's a net negative in this area. Justifying their extreme one-sided behavior towards Israel by saying that there are "other states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies" and then comparing the idea of having a proper RFC to Israel's response when settlers' war crimes are alleged, is just more gasoline on the fire. Real WP:BATTLEGROUND stuff here. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 00:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal
I do not think in recent months 1RR has been an issue for me
isn't accurate. Just glancing through their contributions I see they violated it when trying to implement their close:
- 16:56, 25 May 2024 (reverted 09:39, 14 May 2024)
- 21:18, 25 May 2024 (reverted 19:53, 25 May 2024, which reverted 16:56, 25 May 2024)
BilledMammal (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Wordsmith, the first one is a revert because it undoes BillyPreset's rearrangement of the sentence. BilledMammal (talk) 02:24, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- BillyPreset moved
from human rights organizations and United Nations officials
from the end of the sentence to the middle; you moved it back to its former position at the end. That is a revert. As reverts go, not overly concerning, but it is a revert - and your second revert, edit warring to try to enforce an out-of-process close, is very concerning. - FYI, vandalism has a very specific definition on Wikipedia. Reverting the implementation of an out-of-process close does not meet this definition. BilledMammal (talk) 02:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- (This was in reply to this comment, which JDiala has now removed BilledMammal (talk) 04:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC))
- BillyPreset moved
Statement by The Kip
I've had little to no direct interactions with the user in question prior to today - I believe the closest I've come was voting to overturn the questionable RfC closure on account of it being a self-close in a CTOP. Upon interacting with their talk page (in a notice to move their comments in other users' sections above), I personally don't believe dismissing RSes as wholly unreliable due to being "sourced from Israel," nor referring to above complainants as "opponents," is indicative of one who will contribute constructively and cooperatively in the area over the long term; there certainly seems to be a considerable WP:BATTLEGROUND mindset at play. The Kip (contribs) 05:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Upon reviewing their statement here - with the multiple admissions of "mistakes," "errors," "misunderstandings," and such, I'm wondering if an "indefinite does not mean infinite" TBAN may be the ideal solution here. It would give them a chance to edit away from the topic area for a little while, learn to avoid these mistakes/work around these sorts of misunderstandings rather than letting them spiral into disputes, moderate their tone/rhetoric, and otherwise hopefully develop the cooperative skills necessary to constructively edit. If those conditions are met, an appeal sometime down the road shouldn't be difficult.
- As an aside, and despite their own ongoing AE concerns/case above, I'm not keen on the labeling of Galamore as a suspected sockpuppet due to a six-month-old case, in which a CheckUser found such allegations unlikely - while not quite a PA/aspersion, it feels uncomfortably close to one. The Kip (contribs) 18:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Red Rock Canyon
I am not involved in this case, but I saw this user's edits on the Leo Frank talk page. [2] is a lie, since even the line in the lead had another source right before the CNN one. It is not credible that they somehow missed it. And this [3] is worse. I see that this editor was already warned for these comments, but I think the warning is insufficient. They should not be allowed to edit any article that has anything to do with Jews. Red Rock Canyon (talk) 11:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
I have had a couple of differences with this editor but over content only. Should really dial the rhetoric back a couple of notches or a sanction is a foregone conclusion. Selfstudier (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Longhornsg
These additional diffs from a few days ago leave a lot to be desired on WP:NOTFORUM and WP:CIVILITY. Longhornsg (talk) 03:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Makeandtoss
I have dealt with JDiala and they were very open to discussion on the talk page. Over the past few months I have personally witnessed firsthand how quick they improved their behavior as soon as they were notified about a guideline or policy that they had not been aware about. I think it is a learning experience for them and so far they have shown no disruptive behavior of the sort that requires anything beyond a notification or a warning. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Just noting that I'm staying out of this since some of the recent stuff deals with their response to my close of the close review at AN and their behavior on my talk page. Although I don't see myself as INVOLVED since it looks like there's some engagement from other uninvolved admins it's probably best to let them handle it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning JDiala
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- A few of the diffs presented in the initial complaint seem to be malformed, but I think I get the context. Looking over these issues, they seem to be things that JDiala was already warned or blocked for, so I'm not sure why we're here. Regarding the userpage quotes, I find them distasteful but the community did not find that they were against policy, and the user removed them when asked. It looks like the RFC was already overturned at WP:AN, and there didn't seem to be any real apetite for sanctions based on that.It gives the impression of seeking another bite at the apple. Regarding the diffs presented by BilledMammal, only the second one looks to be an actual revert.
- That said, there are definitely issues with tone and civility. I'm not sure a full topic ban is needed here, but a warning to tone down the rhetoric might accomplish the desired goal. The WordsmithTalk to me 02:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- After looking at the more recent diffs, there does seem to be an issue of rhetoric that's unhelpful if not outright hostile. I'd like to hear what JDiala has to say about them, but at this point a topic ban might be necessary. The WordsmithTalk to me 16:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- This sort of behaviour goes back at least December 2014 when I warned them over a statement thye made that seemed a breach of the sanctions {"perverse, POV Zionist narrative" which he then struck through}. Looking at that I found this post to an editor who is no longer around.[4] See the whole paragraph starting with "Classic Jewish supremacism." I don't think this will change and would support a TB from the s-i area. Doug Weller talk 11:37, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Dustfreeworld
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Dustfreeworld
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Dustfreeworld (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [5] 5 June 2024—WP:PROFRINGE whitewashing
- [6] 5 June 2024—tag bombing
- Almost all their edits at Reiki 4 June 2024—tag bombing
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [7] 30 May 2024 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- “Unambiguous exposés of quackery will inevitably appear rude to some people and hurt some feelings. This is a fact of adult life.” Quoted from PMID: 15208545. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld: You cry consensus too many times, like the boy who cried wolf. I don't think you got a consensus, either at NPOVN, or at the article talk page. E.g. two of your edit summaries at Talk:Reiki claim consensus. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld:
ignorant
appears twice at the definition at [8]. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC) - @Dustfreeworld: I don't think you had consensus around 18:00 UTC, today, since at 17:13 UTC Valjean strongly disagreed with you at NPOVN. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld:
pointless tautology
does not mean that the claim would be false (being a tautology means it's always true, regardless of circumstances).must be cited to a source that says its practice has been characterized as quackery, not just sources that call it quackery
does not mean it should not be called quackery, it just means rejecting the words "characterized as quackery".The lead should be a summary of the body of the article, and there is nothing about such aspects in the article.
means what it literally means. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: I warned them about contentious topics because they have tag-bombed Detoxification (alternative medicine). tgeorgescu (talk) 22:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @MrOllie: You're right: I tried to approach this diplomatically by giving them an awareness notification for controversial topics, followed by hints that what they do is not commendable. But this all was more or less guessiology on my behalf, till they replied here: they are still unaware they are doing something not commendable, and that is a WP:CIR issue in respect to alt-med articles. That is, if their intentions were unclear to us beforehand, now it is perfectly clear where they are coming from. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld: About "granting your consensus": it's a mystery to me how you can read all what I wrote here, but still have no WP:CLUE what I've meant. The same applies to WP:RULES: you appear to have read all the applying WP:RULES, but you still have no idea what their purpose is. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:19, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld: The truth is that if you did not double down on your claims at this venue, the end result would have been leaving you largely unscathed (as an editor). But you show a conspicuous lack of awareness that your edits are seen as problematic. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld: Sometimes the best strategy in a dispute is admit you were wrong, accept your defeat, and back off from the dispute. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- [9] 5 June 2024
Discussion concerning Dustfreeworld
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Dustfreeworld
WRT to point 1, for the first diff, my edit summary:
Remove poorly sourced material (contentious labels) that may damage the reputation of Reiki practitioners / participants, per WP:PROVEIT: “Do not leave unsourced or poorly sourced material in an article if it might damage the reputation of … existing groups”
All contentious labels I removed were supported by sources not compliant to WP:MEDRS, either published more than 10 years ago, or was opinion pieces / blog posts of potentially COI authors (e.g., David of SBM).
WRT to point 2, for the second diff, my edit summary:
Tag materials that violates NPOV, per article’s talk page and consensus on NPOV notice board. Special:diff/1227423119 BTW, David specialises in cancer surgery, which means he provides some form of treatment to cancer patients, i.e. he is not independent and there can be COI. Also it’s just a potentially biased opinion piece / blog post from SBM. Not even a primary research. I don’t think such subpar source can support such exceptional/contentious/potentially derogatory claim.
FYI, this edit was made before the one above, i.e. I tagged before I removed the material (it’s not needed per WP:PROVEIT, which is a section of WP:V, I tagged first just for transparency).
WRT point 3, all edit on 4June were reverted, and this is my response (another edit summary, prior to the above two) to the overtag claim:[10]
I don’t think it’s overtag. As I’ve said, over half of the sources used were published more than 10 years ago. Tagging dozens of sources at one time of course “looks like” overcite, but it’s not. Btw, WP:OVERCITE isn’t WP:P&G. The tags shouldn’t be reverted indiscriminately without adequate reasons. Anyway, I’m switching some of the inline tags to section tags per concern.
My edits are *not* “pro fringe whitewash” as the OP claimed, (and I've never tried Reiki, is not a proponent of it, and do not have any RL association with it). They are based on consensus on the NPOV notice board:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1227423119 [11]
And our WP:Verifiability policy (WP:PROVEIT), WP:Verifiability#What_counts_as_a_reliable_source, WP:Verifiability#Best_sources and WP:BESTSOURCES (a section in WP:NPOV; as oppose to poor sources). (Also see the article’s talk page [12]. Further, this is the main reason for my edits. IMO Reiki is a relatively safe practice of which the practitioners haven't claimed their practice as "scientific". We should not state potentially false claims, as said by some advocates, against them in Wikivoice). The OP's claim is untrue. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 20:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC); --Dustfreeworld (talk) 01:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Tgeorgescu, there are words like fraud, fraudulent (twice), pretender and pretends in Wikipedia’s definition of quackery. Further, what I’m talking about is, the views, feelings, and their definition of "quackery", of a Reiki practitioner (who is alleged as a pseudoscience/quackery practitioner by us) and his/her children, and the classmates; and also those who receive Reiki. You seem to have a very strong POV. I think I’ve said most of what I want to say. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC); --Dustfreeworld (talk) 02:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Tgeorgescu, if you think that 5 editors at NPOV notice board together with at least 2 to 4 more on article’s talk page with similar opinion do not constitute consensus, I don’t know what can I say. I don’t think this is the right “battleground” for the fight against me that you seem to be very interested in. You can have the last word. Thanks again. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- But I’m glad that you agree with me that there’s consensus at NPOVN before 17:13 UTC 5 June:
--Dustfreeworld (talk) 02:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)I can see a very strong consensus here. I agree with you all. Thanks so much for the helpful comments: @Konanen, “quackery ... objectionable” @TarnishedPath, “probably best to use the term pseudoscient unless there is a WP:WEIGHT of WP:RS calling it "quackery" in which case it would not be a WP:NPOV probablem” @CMD, “ "Reiki is a pseudoscience, and its practice has been characterized as quackery" is a pointless tautology. Also not sure why pseudoscience/pseudoscientific needs to appear 3 times in the lead in quick succession” @TFD, “..”quackery" must be cited to a source that says its practice has been characterized as quackery, not just sources that call it quackery. Otherwise if violates WEASEL and NOR” @North8000, “Nearly every definition of "quackery" includes things like deliberate misleading, deliberate pretending and fraud. IMO this should not be in the article much less in the lead.”
- Most reliable source described Reiki as “complementary”, e.g., [13] and,
- https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/reiki
- ”Most countries have professional reiki associations for practitioners. These associations will have a set of standards of practice and codes of ethics that practitioners must abide by.” ... “Reiki is a complementary therapy. In Australia, it is currently being provided in many hospitals, nursing homes, palliative care hospices and community service settings. The system of reiki works in conjunction with all other medical or therapeutic techniques to support the relief of side effects, reduce pain and promote wellness.”
- https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/reiki
- I cannot find any mainstream high-quality source that describes Reiki as “quackery”.
- I don’t think tagging elderly sources, contentious label[contentious label] (Per our MOS, Words to watch: cult, racist, terrorist, myth, pseudo-, controversial ...),etc. is “tag bombing” as the OP said. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 01:28, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Tgeorgescu; I’m not sure I understand what your recent replies above mean. You brought me here and of course I have to defend my edits. Anyway, I want to make it clear that I know that some of the Reiki practitioners may be quackery, and we can include that information in the article if it’s supported by high-quality sources. What we shouldn’t do is, claiming that all of them, the whole thing, are quackery, in wikivoice. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 03:12, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Re: tgeorgescu (talk) 03:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC): Same to you [14]. I’m going out now. Thanks anyway. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 03:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by MrOllie
Dustfreeworld's own statements in response to this report are plenty to demonstrate the problem here. The ideas expressed above include: that Wikipedia cannot acknowledge that Reiki is pseudoscience and quackery for fear of damaging the reputation of Reiki practitioners, and that a surgical oncologist has a conflict of interest on the subject by virtue of their profession. This shows a lack of competence to edit in this topic area. I would suggest a topic ban from altmed, broadly construed. - MrOllie (talk) 21:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Dustfreeworld
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Looking at the discussion at NPOVN, the edits made by Dustfreeworld do not match any consensus I see there. It's so far off from the thrust of that discussion that is either deliberate misrepresentation or a CIR issue. I'm leaning towards a topic ban, although I'd have to see how widespread the issues are before deciding on scope. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)