Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD
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Case opened on 01:21, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
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Case information
Involved parties
- Black Kite (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
- Kirill Lokshin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Yngvadottir (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Eric Corbett (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Preliminary statements
Statement by Black Kite
On 21 October, the web news source Atlantic carried the following story. [1]. This was a story about issues in the Gender Gap in Wikipedia, involving certain previous (and now banned) editors. It was written based on interviews with certain Wikipedia editors, and was designed to show that (a) a certain female editor was unfairly banned (which they may well have been, and it is certain that she was sexually harrassed, but this is irrelevant here), and (b) that editor User: Eric Corbett (EC) was misogynist and/or anti-female. Much of the "evidence" of the article revolved round a single diff by EC which in fact did not show any such thing. Previous attempts by various parties to have EC blocked had been unsuccesful, yet this time, when EC protested his innocence, he was blocked by User:Kirill Lokshin for violation of a previous sanction. Kirill Lokshin had never been involved in the situation before, and indeed had not blocked any user since 2014. Black Kite (talk) 19:45, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Kirill Lokshin: "The allegation that I was somehow induced to block Eric is mere aspersion, easily made and impossible to disprove". You're absolutely right. So it shouldn't be too difficult to explain exactly why you suddenly appeared in a venue, and with a block, that you hadn't been involved in before. Black Kite (talk) 20:16, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- I see. So you didn't feel it necessary to get involved as an admin in any of the hundreds of issues on Jimbo's talkpage previously? Just this one. Black Kite (talk) 20:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- I find that unconvincing. And anyone who works in legal circles will know that "you can't prove that" rather than "I didn't do that" is an immediate giveaway. But thanks for your input. Black Kite (talk) 20:32, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
@Many people commenting; Too many of you are missing the point. Did EC break his topic ban? Yes, technically. Was it a situation in which common sense needed to be applied? Yes. Kirill blocked EC without discussion because he believes he's some sort of "white knight" admin defending the Wiki - exactly the same attitude as others have assigned to Yngvadottir (the irony of a female admin being desysopped for defending the admin that many are trying to paint as a sexist is immensely ironic). Common sense is NOT the same as IAR. Black Kite (talk) 08:37, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- @GorillaWarfare:: how else would you characterise "...when someone has so frightened the admin corps that nobody else will step up to the plate."? Black Kite (talk) 09:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- @GorillaWarfare:: Also, if you can confirm that the article is not based on an interview with you, I am quite happy to redact every sentence where I have said that. Black Kite (talk) 09:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Yngvadottir
Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking ... I owe you all a statement. The nutshell version I posted at Kirill Lokshin's talk page; the committee received a somewhat longer version by e-mail.
Two things are being conflated by some: harassment and dissent. The former is obviously bad; seeking to stamp out the latter is corrosive to the community and at odds with our mission to write an encyclopedia. WP:NOTBATTLE, WP:NOTBURO. Forbidding an editor to discuss an aspect of the community because he disagrees with the popular interpretation of statistical research concerning the community, whether as a means of preserving control or as a proxy for banning him for harassment, damages the project in itself, without considering the effect of preventing his contributions. Our diversity is part of our strength. Isn't that the justification for all the work to combat entrenched bias? That was a decision that reached for the Solomonic and fell flat. And its wrongness was demonstrated by this situation, when the editor in question made measured and respectful responses after being pilloried on- and off-wiki. Blocking him for those responses was following the letter of the law to the detriment of the encyclopedia, and I was made an admin on the understanding I would protect it using my best judgement. In my judgement the committee has stopped thinking about that first principle cited at the head of every judgement, about the purpose of Wikipedia.
I entirely understood that I would be desysopped in consequence, and will not petition Arbcom to restore my bit. I said at my RfA that I would be open to recall, and this circumstance meets my definition of a recall motion.
I would also like to take issue with some of the interpretations of WP:CIVIL that have been raised. The essence of civility on the project is not avoiding a list of bad words, it is respect. In this instance it is Eric who has been treated uncivilly.
I do not know whether I want the committee to take this case. I share the concerns expressed by a couple of others that the committee will mess things up even worse. At the same time, I don't want to mess up the strategizing of the lawyers here. I would have participated in some recent Arbcom cases, including the one that led to this very bad decision. But—probably a defect in my education—I find this moot court environment almost impenetrable. And I wanted to respect my colleagues with whom I disagree over the desirability of the GGTF. But Eric's actions did not merit punishment that is appropriate to harassment. Liz paid me a humbling compliment back in March, saying that I was able to see in shades of grey, and that made me a good admin. Yngvadottir (talk) 11:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Eric Corbett
Contrary to my normal practice, and previously stated intention, I would like to make a short statement, not in my own defence but that of Yngvadottir.
She made a decision that she felt was right, even though I'd already said that I didn't want anyone to unblock me, as I know what shitstorms tend to emanate from that. I would quite happily have sat out a one-month block, but nevertheless it wasn't morally right, and Yngvadottir ought not to be punished for correcting that. Eric Corbett 20:59, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Kirill Lokshin
On 22 October, I blocked Eric Corbett for a period of 1 month in accordance with Remedy #3 of the Interactions at GGTF case. The block was prompted by Eric's comments here and here, which I deemed to breach points (ii) ["the gender disparity among Wikipedians"] and (iii) ["any process or discussion relating to these topics, broadly construed"] of the amended topic ban. The duration of the block was based on the guidance provided in the standard enforcement provision in the case, and the fact that shorter prior blocks for violation of this remedy had proven ineffective in eliciting compliance.
With regard to Eric having some hypothetical "right to reply" to the Atlantic article, which is being advocated by certain commenters here, such a right would necessarily have to be limited to replying to the claims the article makes regarding Eric himself. Prior to the pair of edits which resulted in his block, Eric made several additional comments which did directly address these claims ([2], [3], [4]). I note that he was not blocked for these comments. Rather, a block was imposed only when the subject of his comments became the existence of the gender gap itself.
The allegation that I was somehow induced to block Eric is mere aspersion, easily made and impossible to disprove. For the record, I had no communication with anyone regarding this block prior to having placed it. The suggestion that my lack of prior involvement makes my action suspect would seem to fly in the face of the Committee's own requirements, which stipulate that only administrators without such involvement may apply sanctions in the first place.
I ask the Committee to (a) reinstate the block on Eric Corbett for the original un-served duration (or an alternate duration that the Committee considers appropriate), and to (b) appropriately sanction Yngvadottir for deliberately violating the procedure for appeals of arbitration sanctions by unblocking Eric. Kirill Lokshin (talk) 20:12, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Black Kite: I have Jimmy's talk page on my watchlist, saw a discussion about the Atlantic article (which I had read earlier that day), and saw Eric's comments when I was reading the discussion. Kirill Lokshin (talk) 20:21, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Black Kite: I don't do much admin work in general (as I'm sure you know). That doesn't mean I won't intervene when I see a need—for example, when someone has so frightened the admin corps that nobody else will step up to the plate. Kirill Lokshin (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Wehwalt: My conclusion is based primarily on the individual testimony of numerous administrators, who have personally told me on various occasions (the earliest being sometime in 2010, as I can recall) that they deliberately avoid intervening in incidents involving Eric for fear of harassment. While these accounts are necessarily anecdotal in nature, they are consistent with the patterns of behavior I’ve personally observed at times when such matters were brought to arbitration, both during my time on the Committee ([5], [6]) and afterwards ([7], [8]). Kirill Lokshin (talk) 11:30, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Preliminary decision
Clerk notes
- @Newyorkbrad: Word count limit of 1400 for this section of the case. Amortias (T)(C) 22:38, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- I have removed Keilana (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) and GorillaWarfare (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) from being parties of this case, per direction of several arbitrators on clerks-l. Thanks, L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 01:57, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Wehwalt: Statement length includes replies and questions. Amortias (T)(C) 22:42, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- Note: any statements significantly over the word limit will be trimmed when the case is opened to a point at the clerk's discretion. L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 20:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Kevin Gorman: Word count limited to 600 + your statement requesting the extension. Amortias (T)(C) 23:01, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (8/0/1/1)
- I have been participating in the discussion on Jimbo's talk page, and have cautioned one other participant (not listed as a party here) about using personal attacks in that discussion. I do not think this makes me involved enough to require recusal, but I will reconsider this if asked. That said, it is worth making clear from the outset that we have no influence over what was published by The Atlantic, and we will not be re-examining the Lightbreather case here (yes, she was sexually harassed, no, that was not why she was banned. She was banned for her own repeated serious violations of policy). Pretty much simultaneously with the opening of this case request, we asked Yngvadottir to contact us regarding her unblocking of Eric, and I'm unsure if there is anything beyond that for us to do here. My gut feeling is that if there is, it is more likely to be a motion than a case, but this may change. Thryduulf (talk) 20:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Black Kite: What we choose to examine or not examine following a case request is wholly within the purview of the Arbitration Committee. Having a different opinion to you about that is not a reason for me (or any other arbitrator) to recuse. Thryduulf (talk) 23:23, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- It is worth reminding everybody that as recently as August we passed a principle clarifying that "For the purpose of applying the special rules against modifying or overturning an enforcement action (see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Appeals and modifications), all enforcement actions are presumed valid and proper until an appeal is successful.". This applies regardless of whether you think it was right or wrong to impose it, and indeed it was made after the last drama regarding Eric Corbett. Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept. This is a mess, caused by the community, once again, collectively being incapable of acting in mature fashion regarding Eric Corbett, and it is up to us to clean up such messes. Thryduulf (talk) 03:02, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Newyorkbrad: Regardless of whether the block was good or bad, too long or too short, it was explicitly to be presumed valid until it was successfully appealed, and so the unblock was unquestionably out of process. AFAIAA Eric is the only person who declines to appeal any blocks (whether he feels them justified or not), so I do not think this offers any useful evidence about the appeals process. Thryduulf (talk) 03:22, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- Waiting for statements --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 20:36, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept this won't fix itself --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 01:15, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Spartaz: May the sword fall ever in our favor! --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 00:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept this won't fix itself --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 01:15, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- Also waiting for statements. LFaraone 21:09, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- For the record, Yngvadottir has been desysopped (see here). Salvio Let's talk about it! 21:20, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
- Was the motion deliberately worded to exclude that in this case, or was the wording just taken from a different context? No, I just used the boilerplate motion which we've been using for level II desysops for years. If Yngvadottir so desires, they can ask us to reconsider our decision. Salvio Let's talk about it! 09:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- And now, for a bunch of random thoughts... During the GGTF case, we decided not to ban Eric, imposing instead a set of restrictions, in the hope that it would allow us to retain a prolific editor while, at the same time, minimising disruption. Well, we were wrong. Since that case was closed, Eric has been blocked 7 times for violating these restrictions, there has been far too much drama surrounding their enforcement, and his last block resulted in even another case, where, among other things, we clarified a. that admins are expected to ensure their actions do not give the impression that they are second-guessing ArbCom or obstructing the enforcement of our decisions and b. all enforcement actions are presumed valid and proper until an appeal is successful. I am painfully aware that all we've tried so far has not worked (and that Eric has candidly admitted he coudn't give a flying fuck about [his Arcom restrictions]) and that we need to change tack; however, for my money, the solution does not lie in making our decisions harder to enforce: arbcom restrictions are supposed to be enforced. And, if a sysop does not want to get involved in enforcement, that's perfectly fine, but he (or she) is nonetheless expected not to unilaterally interfere, once another has decided to act instead. So, accept. Salvio Let's talk about it! 13:05, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Wehwalt: how can be certain that ArbCom taking over the enforcement of our own restrictions would solve the problem, when Eric has explicitly said that he doesn't give a fuck about them, there are users who constantly interfere with the enforcement of our sanctions and there even are admins willing to throw themselves on the metaphorical grenade for him? When Yngvadottir unblocked Eric, she did it because she thought the restrictions he was under (and not the block) were unfair: had the block been imposed by ArbCom, would that have stopped her?
Also, I'm entirely willing to make allowances for the fact we all are humans and, occasionally, we may get angry or frustrated, and I'm entirely willing to make allowances for the fact that Eric creates a lot of good content as well (and the fact that there are admins willing to give up their mop for him is evidence of how much respect they have for him), but making allowances only goes so far; at the end of the day, all those who edit Wikipedia have to accept that they are bound by the site's policies. All of them. Furthermore, treating Eric as a special case has, so far, not worked; what makes you think that treating him as even more of a special case would be the solution?
Frankly, I don't know what the best course of action would be; I thought that the set of restrictions we passed in the GGTF case would be a good idea, but I was wrong, but we need to find a solution, because we can't go on like this. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:43, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Wehwalt: how can be certain that ArbCom taking over the enforcement of our own restrictions would solve the problem, when Eric has explicitly said that he doesn't give a fuck about them, there are users who constantly interfere with the enforcement of our sanctions and there even are admins willing to throw themselves on the metaphorical grenade for him? When Yngvadottir unblocked Eric, she did it because she thought the restrictions he was under (and not the block) were unfair: had the block been imposed by ArbCom, would that have stopped her?
- And now, for a bunch of random thoughts... During the GGTF case, we decided not to ban Eric, imposing instead a set of restrictions, in the hope that it would allow us to retain a prolific editor while, at the same time, minimising disruption. Well, we were wrong. Since that case was closed, Eric has been blocked 7 times for violating these restrictions, there has been far too much drama surrounding their enforcement, and his last block resulted in even another case, where, among other things, we clarified a. that admins are expected to ensure their actions do not give the impression that they are second-guessing ArbCom or obstructing the enforcement of our decisions and b. all enforcement actions are presumed valid and proper until an appeal is successful. I am painfully aware that all we've tried so far has not worked (and that Eric has candidly admitted he coudn't give a flying fuck about [his Arcom restrictions]) and that we need to change tack; however, for my money, the solution does not lie in making our decisions harder to enforce: arbcom restrictions are supposed to be enforced. And, if a sysop does not want to get involved in enforcement, that's perfectly fine, but he (or she) is nonetheless expected not to unilaterally interfere, once another has decided to act instead. So, accept. Salvio Let's talk about it! 13:05, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- Was the motion deliberately worded to exclude that in this case, or was the wording just taken from a different context? No, I just used the boilerplate motion which we've been using for level II desysops for years. If Yngvadottir so desires, they can ask us to reconsider our decision. Salvio Let's talk about it! 09:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- Recuse. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:04, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- Probably will accept, at this cursory stage I more or less agree with Brad. NativeForeigner Talk 13:41, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Carrite: Only one minor correction, we can desysop near instantaneously. AE is messy and there's a reason I generally would really never touch it in my admin capacity in all but the most straightforward of cases. AE is a bit of a sledgehammer. NativeForeigner Talk 13:54, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
- I find myself reasonably convinced by NYB on this matter. I'll go ahead and just say what I'm thinking. Banning Corbett, might on face value might cut the gordian knot here but I'm not convinced that's necessarily just, and given the edit that the latest block was for I'm not entirely comfortable. What happened with regards to Corbett in the previous case was a bit of a compromise in which neither side got what they wanted. I think it's worth noting this compromise and these draconian restrictions likely prevented a ban. But that being said in this particular case I don't think the block was proportionate, especially given context. The mandatory escalations were meant to prevent slaps on the wrist for poor conduct but by nature of them being so absolute they've led to a true mess of a situation. If the intent isn't to significantly modify Corbett's restrictions and/or ban Corbett I don't think a case will solve much. I'm not sure we're going to solve what the nature of Jimbo Wales' talk page is, and I'm not sure it would be wise at all for arbcom to directly take over enforcement. Fundamentally I think Eric should have some sort of right of reply, but the narrow wording of the prior restriction certainly doesn't codify that. NativeForeigner Talk 09:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Jbhunley: Actually just finished a portion of [9]. Does tend to coincide with what you're saying, and I tend to agree, no matter how unfortunate it is. A bit of a more extreme interpretation of WP:NOJUSTICE but I think it has a lot of credence. NativeForeigner Talk 22:31, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- And as a final last comment, to all those saying "give up," you know, I'd really like to. But seeing as that's not what we were elected to do, I don't see that as an option. Perhaps it's because I'm masochistic and enjoy being called a total idiot or maggoty goat or likened to Idi Amin, or in this particular case being accused ot being grossly incompetent, but I'd like to actually fix this mess. I'm not sure a case here is the best way to do it, but simply giving up and saying the end is near is patently not an option. NativeForeigner Talk 22:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept. It is our job to sort through such messes, what happened in last year's GGTF case is clearly doing absolutely nothing but increasing the drama all around. Courcelles (talk) 17:46, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept DGG ( talk ) 06:00, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- Accept for arbitrator DeltaQuad (talk · contribs) per mailing list - "Accept per Thryduff's acceptance statement". L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 20:11, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- Like Salvio and probably most of my colleagues, I don't know what the solution is to this, but a case is obviously inevitable and indeed is now accepted, so I may as well accept it also. Of course this isn't the best time to be holding this case. Doug Weller (talk) 19:22, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- @CarriteI've no idea what you think I meant, but I was referring to the fact that we have outgoing Arbs and an election coming up. That's all. Hopefully the timing won't be a problem. Doug Weller (talk) 21:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Temporary injunction (none)
Final decision (none yet)
All tallies are based the votes at /Proposed decision, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.
Principles
Findings of fact
Remedies
All remedies that refer to a period of time (for example, a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months) are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.
Enforcement
Enforcement of restrictions
0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year.
- In accordance with the procedure for the standard enforcement provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
Appeals and modifications
0) Appeals and modifications
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This procedure applies to appeals related to, and modifications of, actions taken by administrators to enforce the Committee's remedies. It does not apply to appeals related to the remedies directly enacted by the Committee.
Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:
No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:
Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes:
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- In accordance with the procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
Enforcement log
Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy (except discretionary sanctions) for this case must be logged in this section. Please specify the administrator, date and time, nature of sanction, and basis or context. All sanctions issued pursuant to a discretionary sanctions remedy must be logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/Log.