MiszaBot II (talk | contribs) m Archiving 7 thread(s) from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. |
SheffieldSteel (talk | contribs) →Assemblies of Yahweh: reverting edits to archived thread - please start a new thread at WP:AN to re-open an archived discussion |
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:I don't see a "drastic worsening" of the article quality. In fact, the ''content'' edits (text only, not pictures) that Ricky has done have improved the quality of the writing. As for the pictures—I suppose I see your argument about how a school that studies the Bible could show a picture of the Bible, but the books that were shown were just random books. There is still (IIRC) a picture of a Dalet on the Dalet School article; there just aren't three of them anymore. [[User:Hermione1980|Hermione]]'''[[User talk:Hermione1980|1980]]''' 14:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC) |
:I don't see a "drastic worsening" of the article quality. In fact, the ''content'' edits (text only, not pictures) that Ricky has done have improved the quality of the writing. As for the pictures—I suppose I see your argument about how a school that studies the Bible could show a picture of the Bible, but the books that were shown were just random books. There is still (IIRC) a picture of a Dalet on the Dalet School article; there just aren't three of them anymore. [[User:Hermione1980|Hermione]]'''[[User talk:Hermione1980|1980]]''' 14:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC) |
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::Images are under a ''free licence'' and therefore, I have every right to use them images especially when they are relevant and improve the article. I think 212.103.241.89 did an excellent job in explaining this already (see above) but just to reiterate; Ricky's deletion of the images, resizing and adding captions that are too long under images (i.e. [[Dalet School]]) is wrong. (Ref. [[Obadiah School of the Bible]] article) Taking the example of books, they are hundreds of images of books on Wikipedia, many of them are not being used. If I want to use a image of some books on a section about a library, why should there be so much contention from Ricky about it? It makes the articles look nice, and it is relevant to the articles. How can anyone start arguing about not having images on the articles? Especially only the articles I have created. I don’t know. Perhaps Ricky can tell? [[User:In Citer|In Citer]] ([[User talk:In Citer|talk]]) 14:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC) |
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=== [[User:212.103.241.89]]'s edits === |
=== [[User:212.103.241.89]]'s edits === |
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:Have contacted 212... on his talk page. Hope that clears it up. [[User:Hermione1980|Hermione]]'''[[User talk:Hermione1980|1980]]''' 13:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC) |
:Have contacted 212... on his talk page. Hope that clears it up. [[User:Hermione1980|Hermione]]'''[[User talk:Hermione1980|1980]]''' 13:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC) |
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===The root of the problem=== |
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'''This edit is the continuation of the dispute about the edits of Ricky (and now Bali) in the past few days and whether they improve the articles or not. These edits concern the [[Assemblies of Yahweh]] article and its relations. Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=26203845 Ricky and Bali revision (current)] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=261448236Fctedts revision (previous)]. ''' ( Concern with {{user|Ricky81682}} and {{user|Bali ultimate}} edits ) |
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Although {{user|212.103.241.89}} has a foul tongue, he/she was right. I haven’t been able to contribute since before the New Year, but the AOY article is definitely not a improvement to what is was before: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=262038459 Ricky81682 revision] Although Ricky has complained about the old revision not having enough sources, he has only included two sources that were already included in the other AOY articles. The three sources are these (which aren’t reliable sources anyway ([[WP:COI]]): |
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*[http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/ssbe.htm ], |
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*[http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_pr5cm] , |
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*[http://schools.privateschoolsreport.com/Pennsylvania/Bethel/DaletSchool.html]. |
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Not much information about the Assemblies of Yahweh presented there is there? |
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The discussion that {{user|Fctedt}} had with Bali ultimate seemed to be pointless [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Assemblies_of_Yahweh#.22advertisement.22_tag]. Although the reason for the reshape of the article is claimed to be based on [[WP|COI]] Fctedt compared the Assemblies of Yahweh article to the “''Roman Catholic article [which] contains hardly any outside sources of reference. Over 90% of it (a quick but not far off estimate) quotes from 1. Their own doctrinal statements or their own websites. 2. Books from their own presses. 3. Catholic writters/representatives writing about their own church. 4. Some areas contain opinion only, not verified by anything.”,'' But just to add to Fctects explanation may one just pay attention to the following articles: |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milly_Quezada Milly Quezada] |
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Only a couple hundred words more than the Assemblies of Yahweh article and edited by at least 20 different editors yet it only contains no references and external links to things like My Space. This article has not been claimed as being an advertisement, or up of deletion for non-notability, or even tagged because it does not have any sources. The AOY article is far more comprehensive in its use of sources, external links and neutrality [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=261448236] but is tagged as being written as an ad, for not citing sources and being non-notable. |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah_Witnesses Jehovah Witnesses] |
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This article contains about 159 sources, only, about 130 of those sources are produced by the Jehovah Witnesses, but no NPOV issue there apparently either. Also see the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Student_Movement Bible Student Movement] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_church Anglican Church] |
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For an article this size, you might expect more references but the truth is it only has 6 references, and three of them are to sites which are Anglican based (written by Bishops or some other means), not to mention the fact that four of the sources (that’s two thirds of the sources) are used in the lead. Then you look at their external links and the three links that are given are all to Anglican based sites. So why has the AOY article been under attack recently by users who have worked on these articles? Perhaps Ricky can tell? The list goes on: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernacle (one reference, no tags)], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima (nearly all Catholic sources)] etc. Above is a tiny, tiny list of random articles I compiled simply proving the really bad case Ricky and Bali have against the AOY article. |
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And ''no one'' seems to be complaining about their articles. Only the Assemblies of Yahweh article, with only about 1,000 words, seems to have been preyed upon by {{user|Ricky81682}} as something unbearable, claiming it is direct contradiction of Wikipedia policies. I don’t understand why Ricky81682 is behaving the way he is, that is in the space of about five days changing a vast amount of content without discussing his reasons, or paying little attention to editors suggestions. But as an outside view, I would just like to say that if this is what is going on in Wikipedia by administrators, I don’t think I want anything to do with it. |
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It seems that in a few days the efforts of countless editors constructing articles can have them ruined by one or two overzealous administrators who go by a bewildering impulsion to include more sources – this, I don’t have a problem with. But it when without discussion or consideration, the whole article is reshaped with only three extra sources included which already verified what the old revision of the page said. Compare: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_Yahweh (current) 5 January 2009 ] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=261448236 2 January 2009] All that has been done here is that the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet formatting] which keeps page organized, has been removed (bullet points, et cetera.): [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&diff=262038459&oldid=261448236 see difference] I am no administrator, but wouldn’t the ''commonsensical'' approach be to simply research and include sources in the article rather than reshaping articles to a state which does nothing to improve its readability, content or even its verifiability. I say verifiability because the revision as of 5 January 09 by Ricky81682 removes some excellent sources such as this: [http://www.audiovideo.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11590746]. |
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If you look at the external links, they have removed most links but left 1 link to the Sacred Name Broadcaster magazine, which is obviously a bizarre thing to do, seen as the Assemblies of Yahweh also refers to WMLK, Dalet School, Obadiah School, The Narrow Way and the Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition Bible. Surely an outsider can tell that the ''pure mechanics'' behind the latest edits to the Assemblies of Yahweh article by {{user|Ricky81682}} and {{user|Bali ultimate}} aren’t an improvement in any way, not even in verifiability (the only reason they claimed to start making such edits in the first place). |
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<nowiki>{{NPOV}}</nowiki> is a official policy of wikipedia but Ricky and even more recently Baali, have ignored the first thing needed for neutrality as stated in wikipedia policy ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial#First:_Negotiating_neutrality_with_others see here] ). That policy is “''First: Negotiating neutrality with others''”. Negotiating has been taken place among the contributors of these articles which is why there haven’t been edit wars [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Assemblies_of_Yahweh#Observations Observations etc]. But these two contributors have taken upon themselves to edit first and talk after. Even then, this only seems to result in contributors like Fctect doing most of the talking [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Assemblies_of_Yahweh#Proposed_minor_edit] while the other contributors simply swiping it aside. Often Fctedt seems to be waiting days for a reply, and a change to the article only results in a revert [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&diff=261801973&oldid=261800972 Revert] including on other AOY pages: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dalet_School&action=history] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Obadiah_School_of_the_Bible&action=history] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WMLK&action=history]. |
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I think this problem is deeply distressing and am hoping that a administrator or wikipedian who uses their powers appropriately, would change the page back from this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=262038459 The Vandals Choice (current revision)] to this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assemblies_of_Yahweh&oldid=261448236 The Neutrals Choice (previous)]. |
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Wikipedia isn’t run by administrators who use their powers to detriment the organizations they dislike is it? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Use_common_sense “Common sense”] (please read that Ricky and Bali I feel are doing: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_disrupt_Wikipedia_to_illustrate_a_point#Specific_kinds_of_.27disruption_to_illustrate_a_point.27 Disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point (esp.) point 3]) The same goes to other AOY related articles, which suddently have now being put for deletion, though several sources back up its notability [[User:In Citer|In Citer]] ([[User talk:In Citer|talk]]) 13:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC). |
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====Harassment ==== |
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Just as a general note: I awarded a barn star to Fctedt a week or two ago, as I did to another user: Dirk Beesta. Now it seems because of the harassment of one or two of these contributors, Fctedt has had to have it removed (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFctedt&diff=261463231&oldid=261461747). I can't believe the harassment, perhaps even jealousy, that's on wikipedia. I can't even award someone a barn star for their hard efforts without getting criticized for it. [[User:In Citer|In Citer]] ([[User talk:In Citer|talk]]) 14:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC) |
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== [[Self-hating Jew]] edit war == |
== [[Self-hating Jew]] edit war == |
Revision as of 22:25, 5 January 2009
Legal threat made by Carolrubensteinesq
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User:Carolrubensteinesq has made a legal threat on this User Talk page [1] threatening to subpoena Wikipedia for my information in a civil suit. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 05:50, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Better be careful, that one is "a member of the New York, Michigan and California Bars". In fact, there's a good chance the user is in one of those Bars right now, this being New Year's. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:00, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Next stop Trenton, NJ. Guy (Help!) 13:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Or another Jersey city whose name illustrates what is done with vandals: Hack 'n Sack. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Next stop Trenton, NJ. Guy (Help!) 13:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Better be careful, that one is "a member of the New York, Michigan and California Bars". In fact, there's a good chance the user is in one of those Bars right now, this being New Year's. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:00, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Note: The article in question has been recreated at the unsalted page Scott walterschied. Requested CSD-G4. 78.34.151.178 (talk) 03:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Done And... gone. 78.34.151.178 (talk) 03:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
An unprotected image is displayed on the main page -- this really has to stop
File:Moet and glass.jpg is currently displayed on the main page, and is not locally uploaded or protected at the Wikimedia Commons. Administrative assistance is requested in uploading the file locally (which cannot be effectuated by non-admins due to a conflict with the filename at the commons and cascading protection for the main page) or protecting the image at the commons. Additionally, it would be useful to more forcefully inform the administrators updating template:did you know of the need to ensure that images are correctly protected before placing them on the main page -- while the edit window for Template:Did you know/Next update contains specific instructions to this effect, they apparently are insufficiently compelling. John254 01:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I told the admins hanging out at IRC; both the wp and commons versions are protected. We need a proper way to handle this though. NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 01:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- commons:Commons:Bots/Requests for flags/LinkFA-Bot may be of interest. Apparently the bot automates such protection in a rather ingenious manner, exploiting parserfunctions, inclusion & cascading protection. — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 03:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Reversion, reversion, edit, revert, edit, revert, revert, edit....
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Can an admin protect the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) from editing for a while, preferably at an older version before the changes started? A group of editors disagrees strongly with the naming guidelines for article titles in plants and performed some 117 edits to the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (flora) page over the month of December.[2] When this page, the flora naming guidelines, was protected from editing, the editors moved on to the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) page. It would be easier for other Wikipedians using these guidelines, if they guidelines were not the targets of an edit war. And, it would not be much of a burden for the editors concerned to gain concensus, propose the change, then ask an admin to allow the change or do the change. Thanks. --KP Botany (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I asked specifically for an older version to do away with the undiscussed changed made by this group of editors, which, will, of course, leave it at a bad version, but all of their changes should have been discussed first. --KP Botany (talk) 02:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Please see WP:PROTECT and m:The wrong version. Protonk (talk) 03:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- No, not necessary, my comment alluded to the fact that I am aware of these essays. The content of my post was intended to make that clear, and it did. I am discussing policies and guidelines and this inane referring of editors to generally badly written essays never helps. I have no idea why you referred me to WP:PROTECT. --KP Botany (talk) 03:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Please see WP:PROTECT and m:The wrong version. Protonk (talk) 03:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Slow reverts and probable Ownership issues in Bukidnon State University
I request for your opinions and neccessary actions in the artcle Bukidnon State University which has been the subject of reverts since October 2008. Another concernced user, Kleomarlo (talk · contribs), and I already went to WP:RFPP on seperate occassions but declined since the reverts are too slow. The problems are with Tomorts (talk · contribs) and his anons who re-adds unsourced cheerdance competition data and removes sourced sections and image with appropriate FUR (Although it needs some help in reducing the image size. It would be great if anyone can help with that too). I believe his motivations are this is my work do not ruined it.... which translates to Ownership issues. I already talked to him in my edit summaries and here but judging from his talkpage, I think the discussion is getting nowhere.--Lenticel (talk) 03:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Image resized. From his talk page and his article creations (another one of which needs CSDing), it seems like he/she is likely a student having trouble maintaining a neutral point of view and is mostly here to self-promo his/her own group and the school to a lesser degree. I'd revert with progressive warnings and if he keeps up, send to AI/V for blocking. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 04:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
An admin may want to check his image uploads...seems like he's uploading his personal graphic images for the school that he then created articles for the primary purpose of showing off his images?? Not sure that's against any policies or guidelines, but seems like a waste of space. I've CSDed all the "articles" I found, which weren't articles at all, just a text line then his images. They aren't good redirects as they are very general and not just fitting to that school. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 04:11, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Improperly listed AfD
The AfD on the Centrist Party article doesn't appear to have been listed properly. I would fix it, but it's several days old now, so I'm not sure if it's okay to just list it on the current day's crop, or if it needs to be completely redone or whatever. It's not my AfD, so any advice or help to the editor who added it would be appreciated. Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'd just list it on today's crop, leaving a note to explain on both the AfD and the nominator's talk page. Reyk YO! 05:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay. I think it's listed okay now. Cross your fingers that all of Wikipedia doesn't grind to a halt after whatever edits I made filter through the system... it seems to be okay now I think. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Joseph Farah and 24.160.240.250
24.160.240.250 is having WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT issues with Talk:Joseph Farah. Basically, he wants to hold a discussion about a controversial claim about Farah based on no evidence whatsoever. He has reverted a number of editors who have blanked the discussion in accordance with WP:BLP. Though I considered making a block myself, since I have been discussing the issue with him, I felt it better to recuse myself from it and bring it here. --B (talk) 07:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed, I was coming here to post the same. Dayewalker (talk) 07:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I contend that my edits don't violate the Talk Page provisions of BLP. I further contend that they certainly don't now that there's another citation of the same issue. I commend you both for recusing yourselves, though. However, accusing me of "having WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT issues" at the same time that you're removing my responses from the talk page is disengenuous. I wouldn't have to revert your blanking of my comments if you'd discuss the issue at hand, rather than blanking me. I'm feeling a lack of WP:AGF and WP:No Personal Attacks comming from your direction. 24.160.240.250 (talk) 07:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- You reverted multiple times to insert a libelous statement on the talk page of a BLP, against policy and the reverts of several other editors. On at least one occasion, I removed comments of yours because they were inserted with the libelous statement, as if to make a point. I'd think invoking WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT would actually be a good thing here, since it assumes you weren't violating policy on purpose.
- I contend that my edits don't violate the Talk Page provisions of BLP. I further contend that they certainly don't now that there's another citation of the same issue. I commend you both for recusing yourselves, though. However, accusing me of "having WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT issues" at the same time that you're removing my responses from the talk page is disengenuous. I wouldn't have to revert your blanking of my comments if you'd discuss the issue at hand, rather than blanking me. I'm feeling a lack of WP:AGF and WP:No Personal Attacks comming from your direction. 24.160.240.250 (talk) 07:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- To the admin who looks into this case, the IP has also been very uncivil on [[User}Sinneed|Sinneed's]] page, telling him to "grow a pair" [3] and calling him arrogant and condescending [4]. Dayewalker (talk) 07:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin check http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dharmasthala&action=history I have given an offer to discuss at Talk:Dharmasthala, but the other user refuses to discuss and keeps on reverting. Thanks, KensplanetTC 07:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- This is completely nonsense. the above user is trying to advertise his language in Dharmasthala article. Dharmasthala is temple for Lingayats(kannadigas). C21Ktalk 07:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Don't worry..it's not my language. As a Wikipedian, I just want accuracy in articles KensplanetTC 07:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It takes two to edit war. You are both to blame, you should both know better than to make silly comments like "revert..If you do not discuss this won't Stop.No admin will block me since I have goven an offer to discuss..I may be wrong..I accept but U have to discuss" and... well, in C21K's case, making almost no comment at all. As for C21K's threat to "start adding kannada script to all churces located in karnataka"... yes, you are both to blame. Just stop edit warring, and if C21K does not respond (which appears not to be the case) it is possible that both of you will be blocked for edit warring. Just stop the edit warring, since I have currently only just woken up I don't know about what I think the best way to go about resolving the nondiscussion issue is. — neuro(talk) 08:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
This is a relatively more active SSP case, and the case page is getting a bit active and heated. Could use some more eyes. (As usual it is always appreciated to have more admin attention to the WP:SSP backlog in general as well.) Thank you, Cirt (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Possible Lightbot Problem
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Lightbot has been removing delinking "meters" in the infoboxes of most television stations and has now started on the radio stations. Also is delinking "Square Miles" and "Kilometers" in city/county/state pages, among other forms of measurement. Should this be stopped, should I revert, what should be done? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 18:36
I have blocked LightBot
Lightbot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Is it supposed to be unlinking hundreds and hundreds of units of measurement? J.delanoygabsadds 18:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I contacted Lightmouse about this, but recieved no response. It looks like Lightbot was operating by itself. Are bots supposed to operate without someone to make sure it doesn't go all haywire? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 18:43
- Per Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Lightbot 3, it is supposed to act like that. As for NeutralHomer's question, many bots are completely automated, so the botop does not approve the edits manually. Maxim(talk) 18:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have reverted some of Lightbot's edits (ones that popped up on my Watchlist...please see my contribs), should I self-revert to Lightbot's edit? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 18:49
- I would advise yes, and I've saved you the trouble of clicking undo again by simply rollbacking them myself. Maxim(talk) 18:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks...I will check to make sure you got them all. I did that when I wasn't sure if the bot should be doing that, but we took care of that here. Thanks for the input and the rollbacks :) Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 18:54
- I would advise yes, and I've saved you the trouble of clicking undo again by simply rollbacking them myself. Maxim(talk) 18:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have reverted some of Lightbot's edits (ones that popped up on my Watchlist...please see my contribs), should I self-revert to Lightbot's edit? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 18:49
Well, it seemed out of its mind to me. Sorry for the mess won't be blocking bots again in the near future. J.delanoygabsadds 18:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Since when does approval to use a bot mean that anything the bot does is okay? If fact, even when people tried to indicate support of his actions, they were shot down in those discussions.
- Furthermore, approval of such a vague request, with no real guidelines and pretty much open-ended as to what the bot does, is something that should be reviewable either here or somewhere else outside the bot requests. Gene Nygaard (talk) 19:23, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's nothing out of the ordinary here. The bot is simply bringing dates and units into compliance with the WP:MOS, specifically WP:OVERLINK and WP:MOSNUM. I will look into its edits in more detail, but as far as I can tell, its doing basically mundane repetive MOS compliance. I see nothing controversial here. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, WP:MOSNUM says "the first occurrence of each unit should be linked". It looks to be delinking ALL occurances of units. I will be reblocking, since it looks to be working somewhat out of compliance with the MOS. Its probably a minor glitch. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- What should happen to all edits it has already made? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 19:34
- Actually, WP:MOSNUM says "the first occurrence of each unit should be linked". It looks to be delinking ALL occurances of units. I will be reblocking, since it looks to be working somewhat out of compliance with the MOS. Its probably a minor glitch. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- There was, in fact, nothing in the bot approval to keep him from unlinking whatever he chooses to unlink. That is not in accordance with those pages. Gene Nygaard (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I think I figured out the confusion. WP:MOSNUM says "the first occurrence of each unit should be linked", however WP:OVERLINK says "It is generally not necessary to link... Plain English words, including common units of measurement". We have battling guidelines. One or the other needs to be fixed so that the two guidelines aren't saying the opposite thing!!! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I gotta run for like an hour or so. If anyone thinks I fucked up royally here, please feel free to re-unblock the bot. I just want to resolve the problem with the two guidelines, so that we can be certain there is no ambiguity on what is to be done with the linking of units. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- That "plain English words" part is bothering me, because the bot is changing "meters" to "m". Some people may not know that m=meters. Should the bot delink and change to the "plain English words" not the abbreviation? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 31, 2008 @ 19:42
- I gotta run for like an hour or so. If anyone thinks I fucked up royally here, please feel free to re-unblock the bot. I just want to resolve the problem with the two guidelines, so that we can be certain there is no ambiguity on what is to be done with the linking of units. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- The bot is not designed to change the text that the reader sees. Thus it should not change "meters" to "m". If you give me examples, I can investigate. Lightmouse (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- "Common" is a subjective term that we should not leave to Lightbot's handler's disgression. Anything the bot does needs to be explicitly spelled out.
- There are in fact actually at least a half-dozen or more different places in the MOS saying that various units of measurement should be linked. Gene Nygaard (talk) 19:43, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Gene Nygaard wrote
- "Common" is a subjective term that we should not leave to Lightbot's handler's disgression
- 'Common' is indeed subjective, but the guidance provides explicit examples. Please click on the [2] at the end of the guidance at Wikipedia:OVERLINK#What_generally_should_not_be_linked. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Gene Nygaard wrote
If I ran programs that run as sloppily and destructively as these bots are allowed to, I'd have been fired long ago. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:43, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- You say that as if anyone here is more than a volunteer. As my grandma oft said, "you get what you paid for." --Kralizec! (talk) 19:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- That was going to be my next comment. But being paid nothing is no excuse. No one is forced to do this work. If they can't do it properly, they should go away and let someone else try it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think the issue here is with the somewhat fuzzy constraints the bot is operating under. All of its edits appear to be kosher as per the WP:OVERLINK guideline ... but unfortunately that guideline appears to be contradicted by the WP:MOSNUM guideline. While I personally tend to like the WP:MOSNUM rules where only the first usage is linked, I have to feel for Lightmouse (who is generally very responsive to detailed trouble reports) because you cannot make anyone happy when our guidelines appear to contradict each other. --Kralizec! (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Then he should do some investigation first and ask some questions. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think the issue here is with the somewhat fuzzy constraints the bot is operating under. All of its edits appear to be kosher as per the WP:OVERLINK guideline ... but unfortunately that guideline appears to be contradicted by the WP:MOSNUM guideline. While I personally tend to like the WP:MOSNUM rules where only the first usage is linked, I have to feel for Lightmouse (who is generally very responsive to detailed trouble reports) because you cannot make anyone happy when our guidelines appear to contradict each other. --Kralizec! (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- That was going to be my next comment. But being paid nothing is no excuse. No one is forced to do this work. If they can't do it properly, they should go away and let someone else try it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- This is, what, the 25th AN/I thread on WP:MOSNUM? Why do we even have this nonsense if all it does is result in endless arguments? *** Crotalus *** 22:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
What should the guidelines say?
So here is the crux of the problem. There is no issue with any editor bringing any article into compliance with Wikipedia guidelines. By extension, there should also be no problem with an editor using an approved bot to do the same; as long as the bot is making edits that someone using Firefox and a keyboard would be expected to make, there is no issue. So let me make clear that my recent block of the bot is not because I have anything wrong with the bot per se. However, before the bot is to continue doing its good work, we should establish exactly what the guidelines should say. There is a clear conflict between at least two three guidelines:
- WP:MOSNUM states clearly that units should be linked at their first occurance in an article only, and not at further occurances.
- WP:OVERLINK states clearly that units should not normally be linked, falling explicitly under the category of "plain English words".
- WP:MOSLINK states "In tables and infoboxes, units should not be internally linked to Wikipedia pages" but says nothing about article body text on the issue.
- <please add additional guidelines here as needed>
Mr. Nygaard notes that there are a half-dozen or so guidelines that also deal with this, I have left a place for the list above to be expanded, please do so.
As far as Baseball Bugs's concern; it appears that Lightbot was exactly in compliance with WP:OVERLINK and the bot was not slopily programed; it is not unreasonable to think that our guidelines would be consistant! That they are not is something that needs to be addressed. Given that this is likely a problem spread across several pages; I think we need a centralized discussion. If there is enough interest here, I will start an RFC to provide that centralized discussion. What does everyone think? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- The crux of the issue appears to be the inexact definition of "plain English words" in WP:OVERLINK. So while I may have a good idea as to what a square mile is, my wife would not have a clue [5]. Likewise while my daughter may understand metres, my son has not yet reached that stage of school [6]. If we do not want to make any assumptions regarding exactly which units of measure are "plain English" for our readers, then we should stick to WP:MOSNUM's recommendation to link the "first occurrence" only. --Kralizec! (talk) 20:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Lightbot's present tear has been unlinking square kilometers. Even in that context there is a big difference between removing the link from:
- 18.4 [[square kilometer]]s → 18.4 square kilometers, or
- 18.4 [[square kilometre]]s → 18.4 square kilometres
- on the one hand, and from unlinking the symbol in
- 18.4 [[square kilometer|km²]] → 18.4 km²
- Why is there a difference? Because many of the rules of our Manual of Style are built on the premise (an ill-founded one, in my opinion, but nobody listens to me) that English-speakers are too stupid to know what the superscript means in that symbol, so the MoS gives us rules actually prohibiting the use of commonly used symbols such as ft³ and mi². Fortunately, the innumerate people writing our rules don't often venture out into the real world of the articles where people actually use them anyway. Gene Nygaard (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Gene, those symbols are advised against because they are harder to read. Relevant quote: "Avoid the unicode characters ² and ³. They are harder to read on small displays, and are not aligned with superscript characters (see x1x²x³x4 vs. x1x2x3x4). Instead, use superscript markup, created with <sup></sup>." Dabomb87 (talk) 22:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Lightbot's present tear has been unlinking square kilometers. Even in that context there is a big difference between removing the link from:
- I have started an RFC for a centralized discussion of the issue of linking units in articles. I arbitrarily chose the talk page of WP:MOSNUM, but I am also leaving notices on as many relevent talk pages as possible to attract centralized attention to this. See Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Centralized discussion for linking of units of measurement. Please carry on all further discussion at that location. Thanks. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Kralizec wrote that wp:overlink had an inexact definition of common units. Please look again, wp:overlink provides an exact definition by giving examples. Just click on the [2] at the end of the guidance at Wikipedia:OVERLINK#What_generally_should_not_be_linked. Feet and metres are the most commonly linked items on Wikipedia, so most of this discussion is about those. We don't link plain english terms like river even the first time it appears. Similarly we don't need to link feet or metre even the first time it appears on a page about the height of a mountain or a person. If a conversion is provided, that is double the reason not to link. Lightmouse (talk) 21:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Why don't we link river? Shouldn't we say "The Mississippi River is a river in the United States?" --NE2 21:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
That is a valid link in a definition article. We don't link plain english terms elsewhere. Lightmouse (talk) 12:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
OKBot
Is OKBot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) supposed to do things like this? See it's contribs. --aktsu (t / c) 03:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Looks like a standard (seemingly correct) addition of an interwiki link... is that a problem? — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 03:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- To policies I can understand, but in the middle of discussions here (diff above) and at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring and Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention? --aktsu (t / c) 03:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Agree. Bots should not be adding interwiki links to talk pages. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 04:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's not a talk page, it's a project page. Furthermore, the two pages are analogous - the interwiki is correct AFAICT. — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 05:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Agree. Bots should not be adding interwiki links to talk pages. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 04:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- To policies I can understand, but in the middle of discussions here (diff above) and at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring and Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention? --aktsu (t / c) 03:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- (undent) Was my thoughts as well, so I pointed it out here not completely sure if it was an error or not. Anyway, I notified OsamaK (talk · contribs) and he'll probably take a look at it. As the bot probably doesn't need to be blocked (which was my initial concern), should this be marked as "resolved"? --aktsu (t / c) 09:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Woh, Slow it down :), Bots don't get blocked for an edit. This mistake came from fawp, since they're using the wrong interwiki, I noted them here. Anyway, interwiki bots are working using a standard program, any programming problem should be directly reported to the pywikipedia team, mostly not the operator. Thank you for noting aktsu, keep going!--OsamaK 13:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Offensive edit summary
Should we be worried about this edit summary? Reyk YO! 10:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I don't know about worried it's offensive and what-not, but I'm not sure what we would do. We could RBI but that IP hasn't edited in 4 hours, it may be assigned to someone else by now. Protonk (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- The users 'retirement' implies it isn't going to be an issue. The only way to remove it would be oversight, and this isn't something serious enough for that tool to be used. We cannot guarantee any warning will get to the user involved; another person may be assigned the IP. All-in-all I'd recommend leaving it. Ironholds (talk) 11:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- You can actually delete single revisions. You delete the whole page and restore every revision but the offending one. No oversight needed. Pretty soon admins will be able to delete individual revisions without taking the whole page down in the interim. Protonk (talk) 11:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh rly? Didn't know that. I guess Oversight just removes it from the eyes of everyone including admins, then. Do that if you feel it is necessary. Ironholds (talk) 11:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not really, but I also don't even think we should bother deleting it. If this were on an article or project page I would feel differently, but as it stands a vanishingly small number of people will see that history page and all they are likely to draw from it is the exactly what LHvU did. Protonk (talk) 11:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh rly? Didn't know that. I guess Oversight just removes it from the eyes of everyone including admins, then. Do that if you feel it is necessary. Ironholds (talk) 11:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- You can actually delete single revisions. You delete the whole page and restore every revision but the offending one. No oversight needed. Pretty soon admins will be able to delete individual revisions without taking the whole page down in the interim. Protonk (talk) 11:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- The users 'retirement' implies it isn't going to be an issue. The only way to remove it would be oversight, and this isn't something serious enough for that tool to be used. We cannot guarantee any warning will get to the user involved; another person may be assigned the IP. All-in-all I'd recommend leaving it. Ironholds (talk) 11:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Anyone else savouring the irony of an anti-Semitic sentiment decrying the influence of Jews upon "knoledge"; proof that you really do need to be that stupid to harbour hatred toward another group. LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:25, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
-
- There's also the "should of". Reminds me of the idiot in Porky's who thought the slur for Jews was "Kites". Aryan supremacy. Yah, shoor, yoo betcha. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Using "should of" or "would of" needs to be written into WP:BLOCK as a perfectly good reason for blocking. Spelling mistakes can be forgiven, but not that. Black Kite 11:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Absolutely. -- The Grammar Police 13:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Cut and page moves
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
Could someone uninvolved please tell User:Secisek about page move rules, particularly cut and paste (see Archbishop of Armagh and Archbishop of Armagh (Roman Catholic)). I pointed this out but user insists on edit-warring over it anyway. I reverted him twice, but don't wanna look like I'm "edit warring" 'cause you just never know what will happen. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have explained, briefly but hopefully satisfactorily. I am watchlisting the contributor's page in case further discussion is necessary. I see that User:Wknight94 has corrected the c&p move and protected the articles pending consensus. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
At an absolute loss
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
For the past month, I've been involved in a dispute at Threshold (online game), Frogdice and Michael Hartman with an editor or small cluster of editors, at least one of which has a COI. contributions (which resolves to a webserver operated by the subject) began to revert my edits to that group of articles blindly and with offensive edit summaries (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). The redir soon got full protection (per AfD results), and the two articles got semi'd to encourage discussion. Well, a user, contributions, showed up at Talk:Threshold (online game), where he began to make repeated unsubstantiated accusations that I'm a "disgruntled banned player", which he later admits are without actual evidence. Throughout, Cambios also performed repeated reverts with edit summaries along the same lines of the IP, which is one sign that suggests to me that they are one and the same.
I've sought outside assistance from several venues (WP:COIN, WP:EAR and other users who had shown interest in the article previously); this has gotten me some help (the earlier protections) and advice (see here). However, even when applying the advice, Cambios has reverted blindly (see here, and here where even trivial changes to the infobox get reverted). While I'd rather not drive away someone knowledgeable about the game, he's continued to make it very clear that he opposes any changes made by me on a personal basis. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 19:06, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I've reverted Frogdice to the less spammy version, after all we aren't an advertising concern, and watchlisted the affected pages. Black Kite 19:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, Black Kite. It also appears that I owe Cameron Scott and Patton123 thanks for helping out at Threshold (online game)... though a new IP has come in and reverted one of the latter user's edits without comment. But that revert is more a content dispute. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 07:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mendaliv has not been completely honest with you folks. Mendaliv is a former player of Threshold who for some reason is disgruntled with the game, and has chosen Wikipedia as the form for taking out his anger. He has repeatedly engaged in edit wars with legitimate editors because of his personal animosities towards the game. Obviously, that is not the appropriate way for people to behave on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the place for someone to further a personal vendetta against a game they are mad at. That is why people who actually KNOW about Threshold have been working on the entry and have been removing Mendaliv's vandalism. Cambios (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- In the interest of brevity, I'll just say that we've already had this discussion, ad nauseam, at Talk:Threshold (online game). I will however mention that you are still blindly reverting my every edit there, while making other trivial/promotional contributions in the same edits to justify deceptive edit summaries. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 09:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I've been going through this and removing what doesn't belong, which is frankly most of it. This mud was apparently covered as part of a larger article on mmos a few years ago (possibly to the tune of a name drop and not much else, someone would have to get a hold of the issue) and little else. The company itself hasn't received any coverage that has been provided and this article is written almost entirely on primary sources. The whole lot of it looks like promotion to me.--Crossmr (talk) 10:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Frankly this reeks of WP:OWN [7].--Crossmr (talk) 10:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Nice, Cambios just undid all edits by Mendaliv, Cameron Scott, Rosuav and Crossmr, stating: "Please let people who actually UNDERSTAND the topic work on the page. Having to constantly start over because people hack away without a faint inkling about the subject matter wastes time.". (diff). --aktsu (t / c) 11:25, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And was blocked edit warring over it. --aktsu (t / c) 11:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And came back with User:Nizevyn, also blocked, have hardblocked the IP mentioned above for a month and semi'd the article for a week. We did try, but some users refuse to Get The Point, sadly. Resolved. Black Kite 19:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And was blocked edit warring over it. --aktsu (t / c) 11:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Nice, Cambios just undid all edits by Mendaliv, Cameron Scott, Rosuav and Crossmr, stating: "Please let people who actually UNDERSTAND the topic work on the page. Having to constantly start over because people hack away without a faint inkling about the subject matter wastes time.". (diff). --aktsu (t / c) 11:25, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Orange bar woes
Anyone else experiencing a problem with the orange new message notification? It keeps popping up for me without any new messages actually posted to my talk page. Tan | 39 16:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And now my talk page history isn't showing two diffs I recently made. Weirdness. Tan | 39 16:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not sure if it is related, but the past couple days I have had people post to my talk page, but no orange bar shows up, another user had the same problem. - NeutralHomer • Talk • January 2, 2009 @ 16:54
- It has showed up for me quite a few times when I don't have any messages as well. Nice to know it's not just me. J.delanoygabsadds 16:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not sure if this is related either, but sometimes I get the orange bar (correctly) but it isn't clickable... Black Kite 16:56, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- The non-clickable bar has been happening to me intermittantly for a couple of weeks now. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 20:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Yesterday, the bar (blue for me, due to customised CSS) popped up once, and I ignored it until I'd finished what I was doing, but as soon as I loaded a new page, it disappeared - that is not normal behaviour, and I , too, would be interested in what causes these problems. Dendodge TalkContribs 16:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not sure if this is related either, but sometimes I get the orange bar (correctly) but it isn't clickable... Black Kite 16:56, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, here's weird for you. This section is appearing in my watchlist, and appearing when I click "edit this page" but it's not appearing if you just go right to WP:ANI or if you look at the page history. Some bizarre goings on... either way (talk) 16:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And, of course, after I posted that, everything was a-okay. either way (talk) 17:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeh, I was seeing that too, and it seems OK now. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, it's still going on, as my entry above is not in the article's edit history at the moment. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeh, I was seeing that too, and it seems OK now. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- ?action=purge is your friend. – iridescent 17:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Ran into that a second ago on AIV...couldn't see the vandalism edits because they weren't in the history... --Smashvilletalk 17:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- And, of course, after I posted that, everything was a-okay. either way (talk) 17:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think the servers may be out of sync which is causing all kinds of problems. See also: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#You_have_new_messages_bar_sticking, Wikipedia:Help_desk#Servers_getting_out_of_sync. Icewedge (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I've never seen any bar pop up when someone posts a new message to my talk page. Just a * next to the My talk link. Do you need to turn that on somewhere or something?--Atlan (talk) 18:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's no longer happening for me, so it's hopefully going to be (or already) fixed now. SchfiftyThree (talk!) 20:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I've never seen any bar pop up when someone posts a new message to my talk page. Just a * next to the My talk link. Do you need to turn that on somewhere or something?--Atlan (talk) 18:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Possible sockpuppet of banned user Hkelkar
Hkelkar sparked a huge edit war by pushing a anti-Pakistani point of view yesterday as sockpuppet User:Ontopofcosts. Now, User:Panunkashmir has edited Kashmir conflict (which is what got User:Ontopofcosts blocked yesterday) pushing a pro-Indian point of view, which so I hear is characteristic of User:Hkelkar, as the accounts sole edits. Could somebody look into this? Regards, Inferno, Lord of Penguins 18:36, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Panunkashmir is
Unrelated to Hkelkar. Different country entirely. I'll keep tabs on this editor, though. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
PEP10 aka PARARUBBAS (anonymous disruptive editing)
Dear WIKIPEDIA admins,
I have been following, alongside user BANRAY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BanRay) and user/admin SATORI SON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Satori_Son), the case of a disruptive editor, whom registered twice, under the aforementioned accounts (when one was blocked, they created the other - block request situation seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Pep10). Their modus operandi consisted in gluing all sentences into one but, much much worse, removing all links and references, as well as other stuff. An example is posted here: (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=V%C3%ADtor_Gomes&diff=253363654&oldid=243133713)
After both accounts were banned indefinitely (see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pararubbas#Blocked and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pep10#December_2008), the "contributor" still edits anonymously from time to time, and i now found another 4 new IP for PEP10 aka PARARUBBAS: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/92.6.202.44) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/92.3.180.254) and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.154.136.129) and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.155.99.187) which i duly report. Mr. SATORI and Mr. BANRAY have also been notified.
Not hoping to get many help here, since most of the times i report vandals, questions/phrases like "Don't know what you are after with this" or "Cool it, both of you (meaning me and the vandal)", but the case is duly reported and clarified with proper situation links. The rest, not up to me...
Sincerely, from PORTUGAL, wishing a pleasant 2009,
VASCO AMARAL - --217.129.67.28 (talk) 20:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Horrible BLP violation, further action needed at Ona Zee
There has been an unsourced claim in this article identifying the subject as a realtor of similar name/appearance. It was originally added by an SPA. The account's only edit. The edit included a link giving the subject's (supposedly) current workplace address, workplace phone, cell phone, etc. A few weeks ago, User:Epbr123 changed the article to make the privacy violating information more prominent and the workplace link more conspicuous. Although he did remove other unsourced statements. The named realtor whether or not she is this porn star has no notability as a realtor. There is no justification for including personal information like this. Either the bad edits should be oversighted or the article should be deleted and recreated to make this violation inaccessible. I deleted the info and link but it still sits in the article history. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- agreed, should be oversighted straight away. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I've deleted the article and recreated it minus all revisions from January 8, 2008 to today. Hard to believe this had been in the article a whole year and no one caught it. Blueboy96 21:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It can happen with low traffic articles. On an obscure bio a while back, the hatnote was found to describe someone with a similar name - who had an article too - as a "child molestor". That'd been there for 18 months too. Black Kite 21:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I've deleted the article and recreated it minus all revisions from January 8, 2008 to today. Hard to believe this had been in the article a whole year and no one caught it. Blueboy96 21:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- agreed, should be oversighted straight away. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
Is it appropriate for a user to call another user a "kike" and a "yid" on their Talk page, as is done at User talk:ArabKh? Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- No. Algebraist 21:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, the page is protected, so only an admin can fix it. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Amazingly, that isn't what he was blocked for - and only 24 hours, at that. Avruch T 22:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's hard to tell, because (due to the annoying server synchrowhatchamacallit problem) I keep getting different versions of the block log even when I purge the cache, but VegaDark actually re-blocked indef an hour or so ago. --barneca (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Illegitimate threats and name-calling by User:Mike Doughney
Regarding the situation on the Rick Warren article above by User:Teledildonix314, User:Mike Doughney has repeatedly used personally demeaning language towards me this edit, yet more offensive are his repeated hypocritical threats towards me. He claims that by identifying the person responsible for the situation discussed above as a "vandal" (and I would claim accurately, given the situation) I was "name-calling" (after both he and User:Teledildonix314 had repeatedly called me names) and he has threatened to have me blocked (he seems to believe that it is solely his purgative whom to block). This, despite the fact that he himself is requesting action to be taken against User:Teledildonix314 (see above)! His most recent message to me is posted below.
Now I realize this all sounds rather juvenile, but I assure you that he is the one doing it - I could care less if he calls me names and I have no desire to have him blocked. What ticks me off are the threats - please tell him to stop. Just investigate his comments on the Rick Warren discussion page, along with mine and his for the evidence. I'm sure you will come to a logical and fair resolution. Thanks. Manutdglory (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive comments.
If you continue to make personal attacks on other people as you did at Rick Warren, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. You have been warned by me twice to cease making abusive comments to other editors in your edit summaries and falsely accusing editors of vandalism. This is your final warning. Stop. Your previous warnings were here and here. Mike Doughney (talk) 07:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I just happened to come across an edit that Manutdglory made to the article which removed sourced information, and reverted the edit, then told him on his Talk page that he should discuss such edits on the Talk page before making them. In response, he deleted my comments from his Talk page without discussion. That doesn't sound like somebody who's interested in collegial editing. Note that I have no prior interest in the article. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I should first mention, in agreement with Little Red, that Manutdglory is apparently initiating an edit war on this article by repeatedly removing sourced information without any discussion whatsoever, and then again removing the same material about seven minutes later, which I then restored. [8] [9]. Earlier edits by this user removed the same material. Open incidents at WP:ANI regarding these matters exist above here and here. Last time I checked, making false accusations of vandalism, personal attacks, and general incivility were at least cumulatively grounds for blocking, hence my series of warnings and final warning as detailed at WP:ANI. The accusation of name-calling directed at me seems to be centered on this edit and frankly, it does appear to me that Manutdglory cannot and will not accept the fact that the personal views of an editor are separate from their edits. Mike Doughney (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mike, even using someone that clearly has no clue what's going on with the Warren article, like NurseryRhyme is pathetic and immature and you know it. All he had to do was check the history page to see what was going on. "Falsely accusing others?" First of all, why are you asking for administrative action to be taken against User:Teledildonix314 if he is innocent? We all know he is guilty. Secondly, "others" - ah, the only person I accused of vandalism is User:Teledildonix314 and I only started criticizing you when you admitted your personal disdain for Rick Warren, yet still felt compelled to edit his article despite your bias, so where were you going with that comment? And your argument that you could still be an objective editor despite your personal bias was negated when you defended some of User:Teledildonix314's hateful diatribe. Also, I wasn't aware that removing unsourced personal editorials that the user repeatedly reposted (which you yourself did to User:Teledildonix314) from an article qualified as edit-warring - in fact, I believe that is what our goal as legitimate editors is. My objective input is clearly needed in the Warren article to offset your and Teledildonix314's obvious bias. And as you have freely admitted, the only legitimate evidence of "name-calling" (I feel like I'm a 15 year old kid) is you referring to me see here. Manutdglory (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Teledildonix314 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
After he made an uncivil commentt on Talk:Rick Warren, I warned him for the attack using HG. Then he went onto my editor review and said that was "no way for an adult to behave" (for those of you keeping score at home, I'm 15). Anyone have an opinion on what to do here? PXK T /C 00:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
True.:) He's received two warnings after a final warning User_talk:Teledildonix314#January_2009 with the warnings coming from several different editors. After a final warning plus more acting up, the next step is usually a block of some kind. Sticky Parkin 00:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- My read is that the original comment, while wild eyed and somewhat antagonistic, wasn't too bad but that the comment made to your editor review was pretty well unacceptable. Protonk (talk) 00:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out what kind of "love toy" a "teledildo" would be. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's Teledildonics, according to a user (a wikipedia user, not a Teledildonics user). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- To me, the user appears to be completely tone-deaf to all aspects of Wikipedia culture and policy. I am not in a hurry to see this user blocked - given the most recent edit, perhaps my lengthy engagement to try to educate him might have had some positive effect. His inability to understand what constitutes a BLP violation versus his insertion of defamatory material into an article I find most troubling and certainly solid grounds for a block if he puts it back in. Mike Doughney (talk) 00:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Tone-deaf? Maybe the Teledildonics are drowning out the sound. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, for the love of- is there any way we can topic ban him from me? He sent me another tone deaf message on my talk. PXK T /C 00:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Guess I should retract my second sentence above, eh? Mike Doughney (talk) 01:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I think someone needs to adopt him. But it sure as hell isn't gonna be me. PXK T /C 01:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I had to revert his edits on my editor review page because of his nonsense. His smearing of my reputation literally hurt my feelings. Willking1979 (talk) 01:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- What the actual fuck? Is this guy some kind of idiot savant? (serious, not a personal attack) PXK T /C 01:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Given this last edit to which I think you're referring [10] it sounds to me like it's time for a block. Throwing around all kinds of accusations of threats for simply warning a user about their behavior, after a final warning, is clearly grounds for a block. Mike Doughney (talk) 01:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- What the actual fuck? Is this guy some kind of idiot savant? (serious, not a personal attack) PXK T /C 01:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Ok, now he's gone on my ER again and called me a bully for performing normal tasks. This really needs to end. Where are the damn admins? PXK T /C 01:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- They all went to a Julian Year's Eve party and found themselves several days in the future. We'll have to wait. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Report at WP:AIV has been removed, the issue has been thrown back here. [11] Mike Doughney (talk) 02:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I thought about keeping Teledildonix314's edits on my talk page, but I decided to revert his senseless, baseless comments. Something must be done soon. Willking1979 (talk) 03:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Another editor, Manutdglory (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) at this article (Rick Warren) who also exhibits a bit of tone-deafness to Wikipedia procedure, culture and policy has been falsely accusing others of vandalism and making other inflammatory comments about other editors, in particular Teledildonix314, in talk here and here, and in edit summaries here and here. He has returned from a bit of a hiatus with another edit with an edit summary claiming he's fixing vandalism by other editors [12] when clearly that is not true. This will only serve to inflame the situation surrounding this article. I have final warned Manutdglory regarding his abusive comments [13]; if this behavior continues I'll be back to open another incident here. Mike Doughney (talk) 07:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mike, even comparing an established, veteran editor like me to someone like User:Teledildonix314 is a complete joke, and you know it. "Falsely accusing others?" First of all, why are you asking for administrative action to be taken against User:Teledildonix314 if he is innocent? We all know he is guilty. Secondly, "others" - ah, the only person I accused of vandalism is User:Teledildonix314 and I only started criticizing you when you admitted your personal disdain for Rick Warren (he referred to him as a "thuggish slimy weasel" see here), yet still felt compelled to edit his article despite your bias, so where were you going with that comment? And your argument that you could still be an objective editor despite your personal bias was negated when you defended some of User:Teledildonix314's hateful diatribe. Also, I wasn't aware that removing unsourced personal editorials that the user repeatedly reposted (which you yourself did to User:Teledildonix314) from an article qualified as edit-warring - in fact, I believe that is what our goal as legitimate editors is. My objective input is clearly needed in the Warren article to offset your and Teledildonix314's obvious bias. Manutdglory (talk) 21:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I just happened to come across an edit that Manutdglory made to the article which removed sourced information, and reverted the edit, then told him on his Talk page that he should discuss such edits on the Talk page before making them. In response, he deleted my comments from his Talk page without discussion. That doesn't sound like somebody who's interested in collegial editing. Note that I have no prior interest in the article. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- That is obvious, because if you had simply glanced at the article's history or discussion page, you would have seen that I have been attempting to restore the article from User:Teledildonix314's illegitimate comments for 4 days now - you know, the user who this entire report was created for. Manutdglory (talk) 22:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- You have not obtained consensus for your edits, or even agreement by one other editor. They will be reverted, by me or others, because you have not obtained consensus, and since you're proposing removing sourced material, that consensus won't be forthcoming. Pasting the same comments into multiple threads here, including the comments of others (mine and Little Red, which you copied from the incident report on me you added below), isn't going to help your case. Mike Doughney (talk) 22:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- My case? What planet are you living on? The only legitimate evidence of "name-calling" is you referring to me. see here Manutdglory (talk) 22:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm seeing a user with some issues, like his WP:AGF detector turned off, but nothing blockable. What kind of admin action are you guys expecting? I hate to send you to yet another forum, but at the time being, it looks like a WP:WQA issue. I actually don't see any personal attacks...we don't block people for feeling overly antagonized... --Smashvilletalk 17:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Put yourself in somebody else's shoes for a second
Straight Edge PXK wrote: "What the actual fuck? Is this guy some kind of idiot savant? (serious, not a personal attack)"
If somebody said that about you, how would you feel? Would you feel like they were really trying to give everybody in the situation an equal opportunity to be treated with respect and civility?
I was informed that PXK is only fifteen years old. I'm sorry, i forgetfully assumed they were an adult. Given their age, and a willingness to admit that i was very uncertain about respect and civility when *i* was fifteen, i see now that i should just get over it, forget about such remarks, and avoid lashing back at people in the future (regardless of whether they are fifteen, fifty-five, or one hundred five).
Mike Doughney wrote : "Your regurgitation of what I suppose is Marxist terminology is quite quaint. Again, let me say this very slowly and in small words in a short sentence so perhaps this time you'll understand what I'm saying."
When somebody says something like that to _you_, do you think, "This person is trying to help me"? or do you think, "This person is belittling me!"?
When somebody says your honest efforts to write with civility on a subject which feels very inflammatory is a "regurgitation" of a "quaint" terminology, i wonder how you feel. I wonder whether you would say, "This person is trying to help me, they are concerned for the good of everyone in this situation, they are very friendly."
When somebody tells you that small words and short sentences are necessary, although you were trying very hard to be civil and open to criticism, would you feel like that person was really trying to help you? Do you think that person truly respects you at all?
Manutdglory wrote : "Mike, even comparing an established, veteran editor like me to someone like User:Teledildonix314 is a complete joke, and you know it."
That type of remark almost automatically causes a person to feel as though you are not able to give respect and Assume Good Faith. That sort of remark about a total stranger sounds insulting, and a put-down only serves to antagonize the subject of that insult, rather than causing them to want to proceed peacefully with you toward a polite and civil goal. They might seem like very innocent words which you quickly and probably rather unthinkingly wrote in a moment's haste, but i hope you will see how they make other people feel, and i hope you will understand why i was so immediately provoked to feel hostile toward you.
You called me a 'vandal' repeatedly, you reverted my edits without asking anybody else for consensus, and you implied to other editors that it would be a joke to respect my literacy skills as you would have them respect yours.
I understand that you will probably remove this text from the page, and i would probably feel like doing the same thing upon my initial embarrassment. But maybe if you leave it here for a little while, and it reminds you of how your words affect other people's feelings, it will be useful. Thank you for bothering to read this at all, i know you don't like to hear anything from me. I know you don't want to believe there could be anything respectable about what i say or write, but i am a human being in this world just like you, with a viewpoint and a bit of a need to feel as though it deserved at least the most minimal amount of respect before being dismissed and villified.
I am posting in this thread with my remarks directed to all three of you editors at the same time-- the first three people with whom i have really had any extensive interaction at Wikipedia-- because i feel like it's the only way i can show you some respect and civility while speaking about my frustration and anger. I'm sure i could learn from the mistakes i have made with the three of you this week. I hope you won't just delete this without giving it a moment of consideration.
Teledildonix314 (talk) 01:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
H5+R1A (talk · contribs) and H5andh5 (talk · contribs) If you look at the recent history (today) of Solutrean hypothesis [14] and Pre-Siberian American Aborigines [15] - these two editors (are they 2?) have deleted the same sourced text. H5+R1A (talk · contribs) also edited H5andh5 (talk · contribs)'s page a while ago as though it was his own. I suspect they are the same editor. dougweller (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- There's another user found on the page history that has a username which is almost like the first one mentioned and their userpage states that they "maintain these User ships: H5+R1A and H5andh5". H5andh5 has been on Wikipedia longer than the other two users; it could be likely. SchfiftyThree (talk!) 21:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
I just stumbled upon this account while checking WhatLinksHere on an image and blocked it indefinitely as a sock of Florentino floro (talk · contribs). I seem to recall this "case" being treated with somewhat unusual deference (perhaps not the right word) due to BLP concerns, so if anything should be done about the userpage/Talk page (protection, courtesy blanking, deletion etc.) please feel free to do it. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 00:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Runtshit
Most admins will be familiar with the long history of disruption caused by this vandal. Most such edits are apparently carried out using proxies and anonymisers. However, following the recent blocking of several more socks, Nishkid64 carried out a checkuser, as a result of which s/he blocked additional sleepers and IPs. The blocked IPs were on the University of Haifa network; presumably the blocked accounts were from these same IPs. Could a note be sent to the university regarding this misuse of their equipment? Since the university should keep a record of who has been allocated these IPs at the relevant times, is there any way in which this could be used to put a stop to this ongoing vandalism? RolandR (talk) 18:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC).
- I sent an e-mail to the University of Haifa helpdesk (in English). You might want to do the same. helpdesk at univ.haifa.ac.il Avruch T 20:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think further discussion also belongs at Wikipedia:Abuse reports (by IP address), which I assume would be the noticeboard for abuse reports. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Missing image
Can anyone see File:Ivytree.jpg, because I can't seem to see the photo with my computer. If anyone can see the photo, please leave a message on my talk page. Otherwise, I will contact OTRS to get details of the photo's permissions and re-upload the photo. Thanks. miranda 00:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Can't see it. It looks like there wasn't ever a file there either. Or at Commons. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 00:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Locally, there was never any such file according to the logs. What seems to be the problem? Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- You wouldn't be looking for this file, would you? I can't find any record of File:Ivytree.jpg in your Commons upload log either. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Are you looking for File:Ivyleaf.jpg? It would seem so. — neuro(talk) 01:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Also known as Alpha Kappa Alpha. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- GOL (groan out load). That one was painful, Bugs. --barneca (talk) 01:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry about the pain. Just lie back gently on the bed, and I'll set you up with an I.V. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- GOL (groan out load). That one was painful, Bugs. --barneca (talk) 01:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Also known as Alpha Kappa Alpha. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Locally, there was never any such file according to the logs. What seems to be the problem? Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, thanks very much. Found the pic that I was looking for. Thanks everyone. miranda 03:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
SPA account
WhoWatches (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) This appears to be a clear SPA account only used to comment at the AdminWatch proposal located here. Thoughts? D.M.N. (talk) 17:47, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- It looks like its only purpose is disruption. You could try at WP:AIV unless someone blocks it here first. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Time to call the Watchmen. hbdragon88 (talk) 17:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I would go to AIV, but it's not vandalism, hence why I've brought it to ANI. D.M.N. (talk) 18:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- You might have considered informing me you were discussing me, or talking to me perhaps. I am clearly NOT being either disruptive or vandalizing anything, and I am completely within my rights to communicate WP:Sock#Legit as per Segregation and Security, section 3 to avoid being the target of harassing emails or phone calls merely for entering into discussion with other Wikipedia editors. I will thank you to cease threatening me. WhoWatches (talk) 19:24, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- That is so ironic as to verge on rustiness; Why didn't you just copy over what I said to you when I found that I had been casually accused of "admin abuse" by you, without bothering to let me know? Oh, that would be because I'm an abusive admin, wouldn't it?
- nb. Yeah, this account is not violating policy (well, WP:CIVIL a little maybe...) so fine - but it is making what may have been a good sounding board for highlighting problems with some sysops into an irrelavent admin hate mongering page. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I know users that disclose alternative accounts yes, but you haven't done that. For all we know, you could be an abusive sockpuppet. (I'm not saying you are, but you could be) D.M.N. (talk) 20:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- You might have considered informing me you were discussing me, or talking to me perhaps. I am clearly NOT being either disruptive or vandalizing anything, and I am completely within my rights to communicate WP:Sock#Legit as per Segregation and Security, section 3 to avoid being the target of harassing emails or phone calls merely for entering into discussion with other Wikipedia editors. I will thank you to cease threatening me. WhoWatches (talk) 19:24, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I would go to AIV, but it's not vandalism, hence why I've brought it to ANI. D.M.N. (talk) 18:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I see no policies being breached. Tan | 39 19:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Equally, I don't see how the account passes WP:SOCK#LEGIT as it claims. Black Kite 19:50, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Who was harrasing you with emails or phone calls under your other account? CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 19:30, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- So long as WhoWatches restricts himself to commenting on the talkpage of Tony's user subpage for Adminwatch, there is not a major concern, I think. I agree though that this is not a legitimate use of a sock under Segregation and security, point 3. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- There are people who commented in the AdminWatch MFD who know both my email address and phone number, I consider them within my social/professional circles (thankfully not family at least) and have no desire to deal with any emails/phone calls related to this discussion. I do not have to have already received such to be justifiably worried about receiving them.WhoWatches (talk) 20:33, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't even have ever bothered commenting to WP:ANI, except that someone put this discussion here and couldn't even be civil enough to speak with me first via my talkpage, nor civil enough to inform me I was being discussed. WhoWatches (talk) 20:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Considering your rather aggressive attitude towards all editors at Wikipedia, and not just admins, I can't say I blame people for not wanting to contact you on your talk page. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 20:47, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- While I neither know nor care who WW is a sock of, I don't understand the issue here or what this pointless thread is doing on ANI. The account's sole contributions (with the exception of one post to a user talk page, and replies on this thread) have been in Tony's userspace. If Tony thinks he's being disruptive, Tony is more than capable of telling him to stop (as he's already started to do), and/or complaining himself. Otherwise, what's the problem? – iridescent 21:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think there would be a problem if the account was making his points in a reasonably civil manner, and refraining from throwing around the phrases "admin abuse" and "corruption" like confetti. Apart from anything else, he's not exactly helping his own credibility. And as LHVU says above, he's degenerating a pretty good discussion on the premise of AdminWatch into a slanging match with such claims. Black Kite 21:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I wouldn't exactly call it pointless. If this user had another account with adminstrator privilages, then I would understand possible need for a alternative account for article-related activities, but this user hasn't disclosed details of his other accounts, privately to any admins. I'm not sure whether to leave it (in case this may be a sock field), or whether a private checkuser is required. D.M.N. (talk) 21:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Editor has now requested unblocking under the following rationale: "This block is clearly unjustified and has no reason to happen. I have no desire to receive phone calls or emails regarding the discussion I was in." — neuro(talk) 09:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- There are two issues here: firstly, there is the alleged inappropriate use of a sockpuppet, then there is the issue of WW's disruptiveness. While I believe that the use of the account is not within the accepted framework of alternate accounts, and the initial exchanges were certainly lacking in incivility, they were bordering on the disruptive with repeated insistence on undeleting the extremely negative comments deleted by Tony and by me. I think the penny dropped that no-one wanted to hear his rants, and so the exchanges within the last 24 hours or so have become much more moderate and are probably not what I would consider disruptive any more. Angry yes, disruptive no. Certainly, the edit he made just minutes before he was blocked was a 'hypothetical' situation which certainly appears to be written calmly, lucidly and probably "autobiographically", in that I believe it describes his state of mind at present (just before the block). While xhe remains distrusting of Admins, his exchanges were boring as he was unable to offer concrete examples of 'abuse'. What xhe said rested entirely hypothetical because of his/her paranoia of revealing his/her alter-ego. However, I imagine that Admins who really want to know would have already performed checkuser by now. I believe the block may not have been too well-timed, IMHO. Unfortunately, I am pretty certain that if you unblock him/her now, xhe will be back in the $&^%#$# mode he was in 2 to 3 days ago. Ohconfucius (talk) 09:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Comment: I wonder if this user is any relation to IRDT (talk · contribs)...they remind me of each other... --Smashvilletalk 17:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Interesting point - making a big thing out of some alleged and unspecified threats. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- If it was IRDT the sock would be block-evading regardless; I think it is a alternate account of a different (non-blocked) editor, but per AGF I'm not going to speculate. Black Kite 17:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- If CU was given out with adminininiship I was in the wrong queue... LessHeard vanU (talk) 17:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Interesting point - making a big thing out of some alleged and unspecified threats. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Per practice and the decision of the AC on it, I've upgraded the language on the Sockpuppetry policy to reflect practice here. rootology (C)(T) 17:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Just to maintain transparency, I got a nice little note on my talk page from this user. I blocked the IP for a day or so. Save the civility comments. Tan | 39 05:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Shall we close this as resolved seeing as WhoWatches is now editing though proxies as described immediately above and here? D.M.N. (talk) 08:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm concerned about the state of mind of the user in question (clearly in psychological pain about WP), and about their potential to return to do some serious vandalising, as has occurred on the AdminReview talk page since the block—really nasty, frenzied stuff. While I can see why admins become exasperated with people like this, these are the downsides of blocking. Tony (talk) 09:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Edit warring over copied passages at Earthquake engineering
I'm having some trouble with User:Shustov at Earthquake engineering.
Useful links:
- Shustov (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Earthquake engineering (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Talk:Earthquake engineering#Plagiarism
- User talk:Shustov#USGS info in Earthquake engineering
The article came to my attention on 28 December through a thread started by Shustov on WP:AN on a matter (not related to content or user conduct): Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive180#Blocking Wikipedia article by Google. I glanced at the article and noted some passages which seemed...out of place. A quick Google search revealed that the bulk of phrases and passages in the article section on Failure modes were copied from United States Geological Survey (USGS) documents. I reported this problem on the article talk page ([16]) and watchlisted the article. (Since the USGS is a US goverment agency, its reports are generally in the public domain; the issue here is one of plagiarism rather than of copyright violation.)
On 29 December, I had a brief look at the article history. It's quite thick, as Shustov had a habit of making many, many, many rapid-fire minor edits with few edit summaries. Nevertheless, I surmised that the passages I was concerned about had been added by Shustov, so I dropped him a note about the problem on his talk page, and encouraged him to review and correct his contributions: [17].
Over the following couple of days things took a turn for the worse. Shustov repeatedly denied ([18]) any problem with the passages in question, despite several attempts to explain both the problem and how to fix it: [19], [20], [21]. His responses became mocking and derisive ([22], [23]). I eventually removed the offending text to the article talk page, and explained the problem (again). He has reverted this removal three times now (once while logged in, and twice more while logged out as confirmed ([24], [25]) by Checkuser), and I'm afraid that I don't have any other ideas what to do here.
He has some sort of academic credentials, but seems to be unfamiliar with normal academic standards for verbatim copying of other authors' writing. I'm not getting through, and I fear there may be a language barrier issue at work. In any case, I'm out of ideas. As I've gotten closely involved in this mess, I'd like another admin to have a look at what's going on, and to issue a final warning or block as necessary – or to protect the article (sans plagiarism) until Shustov or another editor can rewrite or properly cite the section in question. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:43, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- I notice that Shustov has already reverted some of his inadequately-cited material back in after the problem was pointed out to him. That is not compliant with the WP:BRD cycle. Still, I had trouble finding an exact match for anything plagiarized. (I did Google searches on some of the material but only found hits on Wikipedia). For the rules on plagiarism of material out of copyright, see the appropriate section of WP:Copyright problems. That section asserts that Editors engaged in ongoing plagiarism who do not respond to polite requests may be blocked from editing. No block should be issued until it can be determined precisely where some of his reverted material came from. Shustov has been around since September 2007, and seems to have done reasonable work on articles. His use of sockpuppets and his mocking responses in the dialog with TenOfAllTrades don't inspire confidence. He also restored a bunch of links to the article which had been removed by JzG. Possibly a case of my work is perfect, don't try to improve it?. EdJohnston (talk) 05:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I've now done a non-exhaustive side-by-side comparison of the article section to a number of USGS (and, worryingly, non-USGS) documents. I can't guarantee that the list I've provided is complete, as I'm not prepared to do Google searches on every fragment of text there.
- Nevertheless, I think that the word-for-word copying of a number of passages is quite apparent. See Talk:Earthquake engineering#Comparison. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 07:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Request for backup
TenOfAllTrades is doing a patient job of trying to explain to Shustov why he needs to change his ways, but Shustov seems to think that we somehow cannot commit plagiarism because we are nto authors (see Earthquake engineering). I left a note on user talk:Shustov, but if anyone here is good with patient explanations of that kind of thing I'd appreciate some more input. Guy (Help!) 09:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
A admin called Ricky81682 has latly been removing a lot of images, paragraphs and formats from pages such as Dalet School [26] and Obadiah School of the Bible saying images arent relevant! He has been covering this up by putting
- “clean up”
in the edit summary box, but really he is simply ruining the whole article. Also see WMLK article where he removed a lot of words for no good reason at all. I feel sorry for the people putting effort in to these articles only to have them ruined by users like ricky claiming they are
- “a mess”
as one edit summary said, and then just removing a whole lot of information that makes the article organised in the first place! Anyway i dont see any justification for much of his edits other than to prevent these articles from achieving a high quality standard. 212.103.241.89 (talk) 13:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but the only diff you cite shows Ricky removing a lot of extraneous line breaks, unbolding "Crayola Curriculum" (which is what he said he was doing in the edit summary), and changing the lead to be a little more grammatically correct. There is one image near the bottom that he removed, but it did nothing but clutter up the bottom of the page. You will need to cite exact diffs where Ricky did what you say he did. Hermione1980 13:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, and I see that the diff actually incorporates several edits. The edit summary that I saw describes exactly what he did in that edit. I don't really see what the problem is with his edits; he removed no substantive text (that I can tell), he removed two images that relate only tangentially to the article itself, and he made the lead sound better. If you can provide diffs that show otherwise, I'm open to persuasion, but ATM I don't see a problem. Hermione1980 13:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- OK, one more update. Pictures are supposed to illustrate the content of the article. A picture of a book with the caption "Obadiahs value study", which was located in both Dalet School and Obadiah School of the Bible, fails to do this. If Ricky were removing a picture of the actual school, that would be one thing. All he is doing is removing pictures that do not relate to the article content. Also, as far as I can tell (and this is not my area of expertise, I'm just going off what the diffs show me) Ricky has not removed massive amounts of text; if this is not the case, show me a diff that says otherwise. Hermione1980 14:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Spot the difference
1. In Cites [27]
2. Rickys [28]
1.In Cites [29] 2. Rickys [30]
Spot the difference? Rickys edits are drastically worsening the articles and I dont think its fair on all the users who have been trying so hard to improve them. I tried to reverse his changes but all I get is a warning that if I do it again I will get a penalty. Not very proper for a admin is it? A image of a Bible is allowed to be shown about a school that studies the Bible. A image of a Dalet is allowed to be shown on a school whose name is Dalet school etc. There is nothing wrong wih the images - until someone uploads some beter ones, these will make do. It isnt contravening any rules 212.103.241.89 (talk) 14:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I don't see a "drastic worsening" of the article quality. In fact, the content edits (text only, not pictures) that Ricky has done have improved the quality of the writing. As for the pictures—I suppose I see your argument about how a school that studies the Bible could show a picture of the Bible, but the books that were shown were just random books. There is still (IIRC) a picture of a Dalet on the Dalet School article; there just aren't three of them anymore. Hermione1980 14:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
User:212.103.241.89's edits
Could an outside admin please inform User:212.103.241.89 that attacks like at Talk:Assemblies_of_Yahweh#Ricky_not_helping, Talk:Jacob_O._Meyer, Talk:WMLK, Talk:Obadiah_School_of_the_Bible and Talk:Dalet_School are inappropriate? I really don't think that any of my changes could be considered "ghastly" (let alone the incorrect claim that I'm a Christian) and I would hope someone would remove them but I'd like an outsider's opinion. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have contacted 212... on his talk page. Hope that clears it up. Hermione1980 13:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Self-hating Jew edit war
Red-link user trying to narrow the focus of the term to something having to do with Israel. I'm not Jewish, but I don't know that that's the point of the concept. In any case, edit war going on and some kind of assistance is needed to put a stop to it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- The redlink user is discussing on the article's Talk page and on other Users' pages, but they are continuing to edit war. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have referenced this discussion on the article talk page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I had moved the disputed material to the talk page, but Untwirl keeps returning it to the article. I do not understand why the rush to get it in the article. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 21:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Is he editing anything at all, besides this one article? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mostly this article, or User talk page messages related to it. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 21:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Strongly encourage everyone to keep this on the article talk page, and close down all the ancilliary threads at ANI/3RR/EAR/etc. The editor appears to have stopped edit warring, so I don't think admin action is required. If they resume edit warring, a block is in order; 3RR has been explained. Also, while I'm here, "red link user" is essentially a way of saying "new user" in a derogatory way, and there is nothing inherently wrong with being an WP:SPA; it's the disruption that's usually the problem, not the single purposeness. If the edit warring stops, then they may (or may not) have something worth listening to on the talk page. --barneca (talk) 22:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- In this case "red link user" may have a different meaning. This user seems to understand how WP works better than I do now, much less my clueless state when I first started to edit -- when I did not understand even how to sign my user name. (Of course, I admit to being one what may be the most computer illiterate users here.) Malcolm Schosha (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Could you give examples of this wiki mastery that Untwirl is demonstrating? If you can substantiate it, then we have a serious concern that should be looked into. If you can't, then your comment kind of borders on unfair gossip, doesn't it? You could be right, you could be wrong, but until you do something beyond vague hints of possible misbehavior, I think we've pretty much agreed by now that shouting "possible sock puppet" at those we disagree with is uncool. I have to say, I've taken a cursory glance, and their edits from October and November have a couple of minor errors. I don't see anything suspicious. If you do, please show me. If not, please consider retracting. --barneca (talk) 22:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
malcolm schosha has levied accusations of soapboxing and pov pushing at me for trying to add info for npov. now i'm damningly proficient at wiki and must be a sock puppet of a great and powerful editor? is that because i went to the wiki guidelines and copied and pasted rules that he was violating? if not my mastery of cut and paste, then perhaps my adeptness at typing 4 tildes? if i weren't so laid back i would figure out how to report him for incivility due to this behavior. i also moved different disputed material to the talk page, following his lead, which he continued to revert. since i am not a sock puppet and simply a smart cookie, i don't know how to report him for the same action he accuses me of, plus, frankly, i'd rather discuss it and get the opinions of others. he seems to be discussing this everywhere but the talk page. thanks everyone for your input. Untwirl (talk) 04:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- The "accusations of soapboxing and pov pushing" had to do with the content of the material. Never did I call Untwirl a POV pusher, and I always assume that even when POV is being pushed, that the editor doing that thinks they are doing the right thing. The criticism was aimed at the material, not the user.
- As for my view that this user has more than a few days of WP editing experience, that is admitedly base on small indicators, and it is certainly possible that I am mistaken. But when I see a new editor writing an edit summery like: (i moved my edit up to the lead to match other entries for perjorative terms.) [33], I tend to assume this is an editor with some experience because, when I started editing, it was a while before I picked and started to use terms like "lead" and used wiki-speak so well -- if, in fact, I ever did. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think Malcolm Schosha is a little bit upset and should take distance with this article. He has just stated that I was playing a game in that article [34], not respecting WP:AGF and not begin very WP:CIVIL.
- More, there is not reason, because there is a disagreement about content to start accusing others of suckpuppetry. If somebody has really arguments and facts to bring than wp:an/I and the use of "force" is not the way to solve the disagreement. Ceedjee (talk) 14:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I appreciate Ceedjee's suggestion that I take of a wiki-break, and think is is nice of him to be concerned about my well being. (The edit summery he is upset over is not a personal insult, but a criticism of the edit.) Malcolm Schosha (talk) 14:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
hi again! actually, malcolm, after my very first comment about balancing the usage with current connotations (before i edited anything on this page) you accused me of "trying to turn this into an Israel/Palestine issue." that charge has nothing to do with content and everything to do with your perception of my motives. in addition, other editors who have reviewed my activity disagree with your suggestion that i am a sock, and your evidence is your assumptions of my level of inexperience. you really should apologize as you are being antagonistic and 'biting the newcomer."Untwirl (talk) 18:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Request reality check re: User:75.89.46.45
75.89.46.45 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Would someone please take a look at this editor's contributions? There aren't all that many of them, but as far as I can tell, none of them are good: badly formatted, badly written, inappropriately placed, and so on. I believe I've reverted most, if not all, of the edits, but what I can't figure out is whether the badness is deliberate, and therefore vandalism, or simply an editor who just needs more time to assimilate the right way to edit Wikipedia. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 02:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Good grief! Hanlon's razor lives! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It looks like the editor has a specialised niche & to me the edits seem like an attempt at providing some useful information, not vandalism. S/he only seems to have been around for a couple of weeks. I think they just need more time to learn at this stage & I think your comments on their Talk page are appropriate. Mattopaedia (talk) 07:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I doubt very much if they are going to learn anything about spelling and grammar here, given that they evidently ignored it in elementary school. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Very similar kinds of edits are now coming from 81.153.4.179 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), although the IP geolocates from the UK, while the original IP was in Alabama. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 16:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
This page is constantly under edit warring. I noticed some highly biased and unsourced material being inserted[35] so I reverted but I don't know what to do next as the IP editor keeps reverting and instead accuses me to be biased on my talk page. --Unpopular Opinion (talk) 13:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
conflict is resolved a less biased editor reverted all the biases the editor above me doesnt understand what bias means ignore him cheers 86.158.237.235 (talk) 13:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I reverted to an earlier version, as some of the edits by Wikireader41 (talk · contribs) had added content that was biased and did not appear to be relevant to the subject, however I may have removed some possibly useful content when reverting. Someone who knows more about the subject is needed for this and other articles edited by the same users (see Special:Contributions/86.158.237.235), as there may be similar problems. —Snigbrook 14:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikireader41 (talk · contribs) blocked for 48 hours. Ruslik (talk) 14:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, Ruslik and Snigbrook. SSP submitted. --Unpopular Opinion (talk) 17:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
User Carl Hewitt may be POV editing articles on Wikipedia
This user repeatedly comes up at Arbcom following what seems to be a fairly solid history of issues starting with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt and socking. The user is highly technically skilled and has written extensively in an adverse style or to promote his own views and himself, from what I can gather.
I happened to check the article Reliability of Wikipedia and suspect that an IP that is heavily skewing it to Hewitt's disparaging viewpoint may be that user himself. There are IP posts inserting significant tracts of adverse Hewitt quotes, case material, and writings (article) and links/cites (talk page). IP socking is a known problem here. Eyeballs may be useful to determine if these edits are good quality or not. See Talk:Reliability of Wikipedia#A disturbing edit. (Also, is this article balanced in regard to "being used for the purpose of presenting specific complaints to a wide audience in mainspace" as opposed to documenting of the topic?)
FT2 (Talk | email) 18:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Statement against User:USEDfan
This user has a long long history of disruption and was indef blocked several months ago. Since then he has created over a dozen sock puppets, many of them have not been added to the list of USEDfan's socks, some of them have. Seicer usually deals with him but he isn't online right now. He creates sole purpose accounts to edit The Used and his newest sock is User:Remote peace. Will one of you take a look and see if there is anything you can do? Thanks, Landon1980 (talk) 06:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Check topic below as well, both users reported each other but Landon1980 moved theirs above the other for some reason. Remote peace (talk) 07:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, you placed your report above theirs. [36] Landon1980 is correct, new reports should go at the bottom of the page. Dayewalker (talk) 07:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It took me a while to type it since I was tired, but I believe I edited the page well befor ethem but they posted it first while I was still typing. Remote peace (talk) 22:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Check topic below as well, both users reported each other but Landon1980 moved theirs above the other for some reason. Remote peace (talk) 07:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter when you started, new reports would go at the bottom of the page. Dayewalker (talk) 22:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Note: copied from section below to merge two related sections
Statement against User:Landon1980
HI, This user keeps removing information from The Used page. I sourced it properly and updated the page but they keep removing it. I told them it was vandalsim but they didn't listen. They even got me banned for correcting the page. Can some one please tell them that they cannot just remove a bunch of sourced information and updated information because they don't believe it. Thanks. Remote peace (talk) 07:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Additionally, I went to their talk page and tried to settle the problem but they remove anything I write on their talk page to make it seem like I didn't try to slove the problem which they have caused so they are really not helping here. Remote peace (talk) 07:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Is your dispute about your blog sources and from a Kyte I guess video ("Dan has also announced on kyte" here) that for their next album, 20 songs have been recorded and 13 should be on it? Of which I see that three different users have reverted you? Would you be specific as to what to take of User:Carl.bunderson's two reverts and User:QuestionOfAnarchy's partial revert? Or is just Landon being the last to revert your concern? Last, since the first thing you did after being blocked for 24 hours was to reinsert your edits, can you give me a reason why I shouldn't block you right now for continuing to be disruptive? You conducted 9 edits to the article before telling Landon he was "degrading the page", asking] User:Seicer for help, and then back to the article, following next with the reports here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have had similar experiences with Landon, specifically his removal of material. Whilst it is permitted to remove content from one's talkpage, it seemed and seems that he is particularly unwilling to hear external points of view or take any criticism, even constructively. His removal makes it particularly hard to talk to him, which doesn't aid the situation. — neuro(talk) 13:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- So you think I should discuss this with User:USEDfan? Once banned users come back over a dozen times it gets rather annoying, there is no point in discussing anything with him it's pointless. Until the guideline is changed saying I can remove whatever I want from my talk page there is nothing an administrator can do, this is an administrator noticeboard. Landon1980 (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, don't take it up with me. I was only giving a statement from past experience - last time I looked this header had your name in, not USEDfan. Even if the editor is the aforementioned sockpuppeteer, it doesn't hinder to have other information. — neuro(talk) 16:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- This thread was started by USEDfan stalking my contribs, just like he always does. So you honestly feel there is something an admin can do about me deleting things from my talk page? What do you recommend be done? Landon1980 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have I commented on that? No? Then why don't you accept that I did not express an opinion on the matter because I don't wish to get into a long and unproductive dispute with you again. I merely stated some facts and my opinion on these facts, so don't say "what do you recommend be done" and "you honestly feel there is something an admin can do about me deleting things from my talk page", my statements were for people to draw conclusions from, not to request for you to provoke me into giving a recommendation. If you wish to continue, go ahead, but I would quite happily say that you are somewhat proving my original point. — neuro(talk) 20:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- This thread was started by USEDfan stalking my contribs, just like he always does. So you honestly feel there is something an admin can do about me deleting things from my talk page? What do you recommend be done? Landon1980 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, don't take it up with me. I was only giving a statement from past experience - last time I looked this header had your name in, not USEDfan. Even if the editor is the aforementioned sockpuppeteer, it doesn't hinder to have other information. — neuro(talk) 16:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- So you think I should discuss this with User:USEDfan? Once banned users come back over a dozen times it gets rather annoying, there is no point in discussing anything with him it's pointless. Until the guideline is changed saying I can remove whatever I want from my talk page there is nothing an administrator can do, this is an administrator noticeboard. Landon1980 (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have had similar experiences with Landon, specifically his removal of material. Whilst it is permitted to remove content from one's talkpage, it seemed and seems that he is particularly unwilling to hear external points of view or take any criticism, even constructively. His removal makes it particularly hard to talk to him, which doesn't aid the situation. — neuro(talk) 13:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Is your dispute about your blog sources and from a Kyte I guess video ("Dan has also announced on kyte" here) that for their next album, 20 songs have been recorded and 13 should be on it? Of which I see that three different users have reverted you? Would you be specific as to what to take of User:Carl.bunderson's two reverts and User:QuestionOfAnarchy's partial revert? Or is just Landon being the last to revert your concern? Last, since the first thing you did after being blocked for 24 hours was to reinsert your edits, can you give me a reason why I shouldn't block you right now for continuing to be disruptive? You conducted 9 edits to the article before telling Landon he was "degrading the page", asking] User:Seicer for help, and then back to the article, following next with the reports here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
The point being what? That I sometimes remove comments from my talk page? Doing so does not violate any policy or guideline, hence does not require administrative action. This is the incidents noticeboard; I may start an editor review one day though. Landon1980 (talk) 21:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I am not going to respond for fear of doing something I might regret (see notices on my userpage), just noting here that Landon left a message on my talk with a condescending edit summary, and Patton123 then replied. — neuro(talk) 21:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh and by the way, rude edit summaries are not exactly a new thing to Landon - for example just see this edit in which he says in the summary "Every boy has a dream, I guess being an admin on wikipedia will make your mother proud". — neuro(talk) 21:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Now that edit summary I intended to be rude, the other was merely me trying to explain the scope of ANI to you. What exactly are you expecting to come of this? Are you suggesting I be banned from managing my talk page, or some guidelines laid out stipulating which comments I can and cannot remove from it? Landon1980 (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I am going to go against everything I have been holding back now. You are asking the same question I have answered twice now. I am not giving comment on a resolution as I feel I should recuse myself from such a discussion due to our particularly awful previous interactions. Your attempts at provoking me to get an outburst are noted. Thanks. — neuro(talk) 21:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to get you to "outburst." This thread is not even about my removing things from my talk page, yet you mentioned it. Seeing as you are the one that seems to think it requires admin action I'm merely asking what you suggest be done? As long as removing comments from a users talk page is not forbidden by any policy or guideline I can remove them as I see fit. There is nothing to discuss here. Landon1980 (talk) 21:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not really sure what the point of this section is. If Remote peace is actually a sock of USEDFan (a casual look shows great similarity), his edits should be RBI'd. He's indefinitely blocked, so he shouldn't be here making the same edits that led to his block. An indefinitely blocked user with more than a dozen sockpuppets complaining about his treatment is ridiculous. I say checkuser him, if it comes back positive, conclude the matter. If not, we'll continue.
- I'm not trying to get you to "outburst." This thread is not even about my removing things from my talk page, yet you mentioned it. Seeing as you are the one that seems to think it requires admin action I'm merely asking what you suggest be done? As long as removing comments from a users talk page is not forbidden by any policy or guideline I can remove them as I see fit. There is nothing to discuss here. Landon1980 (talk) 21:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I am going to go against everything I have been holding back now. You are asking the same question I have answered twice now. I am not giving comment on a resolution as I feel I should recuse myself from such a discussion due to our particularly awful previous interactions. Your attempts at provoking me to get an outburst are noted. Thanks. — neuro(talk) 21:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Now that edit summary I intended to be rude, the other was merely me trying to explain the scope of ANI to you. What exactly are you expecting to come of this? Are you suggesting I be banned from managing my talk page, or some guidelines laid out stipulating which comments I can and cannot remove from it? Landon1980 (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh and by the way, rude edit summaries are not exactly a new thing to Landon - for example just see this edit in which he says in the summary "Every boy has a dream, I guess being an admin on wikipedia will make your mother proud". — neuro(talk) 21:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- In the interest of disclosure, due to longterm harassment from socks of indefinitely banned users (a modicum of which is detailed here [37], I have absolutely no patience for blocked users coming back to harass productive users in hopes of getting them blocked. Dayewalker (talk) 21:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Last comment here, because if we continue down this road then I am seriously going to end up taking one hell of a break, which I don't want to do. Since it is my last comment here, this might be a bit long.
- In the interest of disclosure, due to longterm harassment from socks of indefinitely banned users (a modicum of which is detailed here [37], I have absolutely no patience for blocked users coming back to harass productive users in hopes of getting them blocked. Dayewalker (talk) 21:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Landon, I have explicitly and repeatedly told you that I do not care whether admin intervention or action is required and have not expressed an opinion intentionally, as I have mentioned. Your past behaviour is particularly relevant, and if it isn't I believe it would be insulting to other editors to assume that they couldn't see that it was irrelevant, a red herring, and discount it entirely. On the other hand, if it is not irrelevant, that is up to them, not to you, and I will not retract my comments simply based on a slew of comments where you ask the same question which I have answered previously. Again, "seeing as you are the one that seems to think it requires admin action" is utterly ridiculous, I have already mentioned that I am irritated in general and that because of that and our previous interactions I have recused myself from expressing an opinion on what should be done - I have not even really looked at what is going on in general, I was merely giving examples for people to look at and study. If anything, it is your comments that are irrelevant, not mine. Please don't insult your own intelligence by suggesting that you can't understand that I have said multiple times in this thread that I am not expressing and do not intend to express an opinion on the debate itself, I only intend to provide information to people reading, judging, and potentially acting on the thread. It is up to them what they wish to do with it, not me. Your inability to comprehend what I am saying either implies that you are either trying to provoke an uncivil response and get something done to me, or you are merely unable to comprehend the idea of an 'answer'; and I do not think it is the latter. This conversation is highly irrelevant. Please desist. — neuro(talk) 22:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
DreamGuy. Again.
Sorry, I did try to resolve this with the user without success. DreamGuy (talk · contribs) is again reverting edits without discussion, and using edit summaries as platforms for personal attacks. As per this edit:
- "sick of my personal stalker following me around to undo noncontroversial edits... funny thing is then he removes one of the most notable cultural refs (successful novel series) and keeps utter dreck"
This is despite the fact that DG has made a total of four edits to the Scarlet Pimpernel article, the earliest of which was on October 6th, 2008, and three of the four are reverts. I would point out that the accusation of wiki-stalking seems unfounded, as I had begun that article over six months earlier, and have made 6x more edits to it.
Were this the first instance of this behavior, I'd simply shrug it off as someone having a bad day. Unfortunately, this is something that happens (and keeps happening) in most of the articles that DG edits, as his user talk page (including those bits he likely finds a bit more embarrassing and removes) would seem to indicate. The user is currently under AE civility parole, which has been extended again and again, as the user is considered a net asset to the project. I submit that these benefits to the project are diminished by shutting down those other editors who grow weary of being exposed to DreamGuy's thick layer of hostility and rudeness. In the past, his incivility and personal attacks have chased away new editors. The current resurgence of uncivil and unfriendly behavior is of precisely the same sort that led to the user being placed under ArbCom behavioral restriction in the first place.
I did attempt to address this behavior in a civil fashion on multiple occasions recently during the Annie Chapman image discussion (1, 2) before he deleted the section as "serving no point". As well, Jack the Ripper, and his usertalk page (3), where he deleted it again with yet another PA edit summary, an action which prompted my posting here.
I am certainly not the first to have had unhappy interactions with DG, but I think I've done everything civilly possible to defuse the behavior he seems to reserve for anyone who doesn't share his exceptionally narrow worldview. He reverts and edit-wars without discussion, and it just keeps happening over and over again in any article he touches.
I would remind the noticeboard (for the three or four people unaware of his status) that DreamGuy is currently under behavioral restriction by ArbCom, reinforced by AE on a few occasions (to be more civil in his dealings with others). Looking at the edit summaries of DG's contributions over the past month, I am not sure this civility parole is being followed. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 21:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have reviewed the contrib history of Scarlet Pimpernel, and confirm Arcayne has previously edited the article since April of last year and DreamGuy only since August. I have therefore warned DreamGuy regarding both his edit warring and inappropriate comments regarding Arcayne and suggested withdrawing from editing the article. I have not reviewed Arcayne's other concerns. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- ...aaaaaand this was the response. I have left a further comment, but I suppose that it will be reverted similarly. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Arcayne has a long history of wikistalking, so to tell me he is not is simply wrong and showing a recklessness in taking action. Furthermore it's completely inappropriate for you to just tell me not to edit the page in question. Admins don't just say that editors are not allowed to edit. Before you give lectures you need to make sure you know what's what. Inisting on putting a warning on my talk page despite knowing that I said you were misinformed isn't particularly helpful. DreamGuy (talk) 21:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Arcayne has a well-demonstrated history of personal conflict with me and also for wikilawyering to try to get his way, including misleading reports here and to ArbCom. Quite often he shows up here and gets some well-meaning but inexperienced admin to jump in and do whatever he wants because they do not take the time to examine the full facts. He knows he is banned from my talk page, per my instructions and warnings from several admins, so claiming he is trying "to resolve this with the user without success" by posting there is complete nonsense. He is not trying to resolve anything, he just blind reverts my edits on any article he happens to be on with misleading edit comments, often with statements to "see talk" when he didn't put anything on the talk page... in fact he quite regularly on Jack the Ripper says to "see talk" or "per talk" or claim no evidence was ever given for an action when he has deleted the discussion of the article talk page (calling it an archive, but doing so so often that current discussions go away). I would caution anyone seeing this to not fall for Arcayne's little tricks as others have in the past. Shows editors agreeing that Arcayne has been harassing me, that people complaining are trying to game the system, etc. and there is more evidence as well. DreamGuy (talk) 21:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I am going to withdraw after this comment - but someone who has edited an article since April 2008 cannot be "wikistalking" (isn't the term de joure "wikihounding", anyway?) an editor who started editing an article in August of the same year. Also, as far as counting back the months go, as I have been a sysop since May 2007 I am a little too long in the tooth to be termed "inexperienced". Nevermind, it doesn't seem as if you are interested in statistics where it does not suit your agenda. Best of luck. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Would it be part of my "little tricks" to point out that the section DG linked to is almost year old, and he has been blocked three different times since then for the same sort of behavior which prompts this complaint? I would also point out that of the three editors thus posting to this section, only DG has been blocked - less than a year ago - for "gaming the system". Anyone who blocks him is "inexperienced"; anyone who disagrees with him is "blind-reverting". No one is saying DG is stupid - a block log as long as his suggests that he does bring something to the table here. I am pointing out that I have been accused of wikihounding in an article that - by all accounts - it could be more convincingly argued that DG began visiting the Pimpernel article less than 15 minutes after reverting an edit of mine in the Jack the Ripper article (1, 2). Do I like the user? Clearly, I don't, for reasons that are a part of the record. However, I am not being hypersensitive to the accusations of wiki-hounding, as they tend to (pardon the pun) tend to follow a user around. The disproven accusations by DreamGuy, coupled with his recurring uncivil behavior seem to communicate a need to curb the user's behavior somewhat further; the behavioral restrictions don't seem to be working as well as they would with most other folk. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 22:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I am going to withdraw after this comment - but someone who has edited an article since April 2008 cannot be "wikistalking" (isn't the term de joure "wikihounding", anyway?) an editor who started editing an article in August of the same year. Also, as far as counting back the months go, as I have been a sysop since May 2007 I am a little too long in the tooth to be termed "inexperienced". Nevermind, it doesn't seem as if you are interested in statistics where it does not suit your agenda. Best of luck. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
User talk:Roseswhite (sock of Yorkshirian)
Double-indef. banned, long term chronic sockpuppet, troll, and otherwise ultra-abusive/distruptive User:Yorkshirian has been back, again, breifly as User:Roseswhite. Leaving rather unplesant messages about me on his talk page. Leaves a racist message about me, then calls me a nazi (!), then says he's a good editor and should be unblocked because he's reformed. Of course that won't happen, but just wanted the incident on the noticeboard so as to make sure I'm not accused of maltreatment.
However, I wouldn't mind a quick checkuser being performed on this account and User:Mister Flash to make sure there isn't a correlation, and also as a means to doublecheck there are no more sock farms being built up by Yorkshirian as we speak.
Also, what is the policy on Yorkshirian working on sister sites please? --Jza84 | Talk 22:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocks from one site in general do not transfer to sister sites due to various reasons, partially because policies are not unified. — neuro(talk) 22:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Neither do bans. Per WP:BAN#Scope and reciprocity, "bans issued by the Wikipedia community or by the Arbitration Committee are not binding on other projects". Fvasconcellos (t·c) 22:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
A different Russian interwiki
- Could some one put a more appropriate link to the relevant Russian page, which is ru:Википедия:Запросы к администраторам. They are not entirely equivalent, but the current one is downright wrong.Muscovite99 (talk) 00:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Danielpi - block needed
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
I just blocked User:Danielpi due to harassment ([38]). When I wanted to inform him about his block, I saw this edits made after the block. Because of that, I decided to extend the block to 1 month (cf. block log.) Now I saw this edit. Could one block him indefinitely, please? — Aitias // discussion 01:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Also, he has just made this edit. — Aitias // discussion 01:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocked indef. --Smashvilletalk 01:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you. — Aitias // discussion 01:49, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Removed talk page editing privileges. --Rschen7754 (T C) 01:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you. — Aitias // discussion 01:49, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocked indef. --Smashvilletalk 01:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Cambios (talk · contribs) is blocked at 11:37 yesterday by Black Kite, largely for behavior at Threshold (online game).
- Nizevyn (talk · contribs) registers at 17:59, removes fact tags placed by a user who he was in conflict with, edits the userpage of said user and then undoes an edit proceeds to revert him again. That is the extent of his edits.
- Black Kite blocks Nizevyn at 19:12. Nizevyn posts an unblock request which I decline (this is where I came into the situation).
- At 1:55, Mendaliv nominates Threshold for deletion.
- At 2:31 Theblog (talk · contribs) returns from a 9 month absence to post at the talk page of the contentious article.
- At 4:11, I receive a request on my talkpage for a checkuser request of Nizevyn (I'm not a CU) from Theblog.
- At 4:30, he chastizes me for the block of Nizevyn (for starters, I didn't block him - I declined his unblock because he didn't address him block reason) because there was no checkuser.
- At 4:36, he chastizes me further for said block I did not make because we didn't go to SSP.
- He proceeds to create this.
So...my question...sockfarm, meatfarm, offwiki canvassing or some fourth suggestion I'm not thinking of? --Smashvilletalk 05:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's somewhere between meatpuppetry and off-wiki canvassing at the subject's forums; there's precedent to suspect such behavior based on the content visible at the subject's forums. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 06:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
What exactly is the problem? I came back to Wikipedia because I wanted to, I was not asked to by anyone. I have a long history at Wikipedia and have edited many pages, but have not edited the page under discussion recently, in fact, I have purposely not done so because of the hostile environment there. I believe the Nizevyn is not a sockpuppet and the proper procedure to show that he was a sockpuppet was not followed. I merely asked for clarification and confirmation that Nizevyn was not a sockpuppet and am still waiting for this. I believe if someone is accused of being a sockpuppet they should be checkusered, its not exactly an onerous requirement as it doesn't take long. I am sorry if I improperly bugged you about Nizevyn Smashville, I saw that you were an administrator familiar with the situation and thought maybe you could help.
I am really at a loss why I am being reported for an incident, could you please explain exactly what I have done wrong? --Theblog (talk) 07:01, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I also did not "chastise" you, I merely asked for more assistance and clarification. Please do not accuse me of doing things I did not do. --Theblog (talk) 07:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Upon further reading it is clearer and clearer the claim is baseless, the definition of meatpuppet given is: "Meatpuppet is a Wikipedia term of art meaning one who edits on behalf of or as proxy for another editor." This does not apply to me because I have not done it, but further more, I have not actually edited the article in question recently AT ALL! I request that this ANI be removed as it has been shown to be untrue in every regard. Furthermore, I request that the Nizevyn banning be reviewed, as obviously tensions are high for some reason regarding the article and admins are acting without giving proper good faith. Thank you.--Theblog (talk) 07:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It wasn't really a claim, just wondering by an admin if there was something larger going on. (off-wiki canvassing, maybe WP:DUCK tests), Disclaimer: I'm not an admin btw ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 08:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It is an accusation, he mentions something other that he's not thinking of, like a user checking his watchlist occasionally and jumping in if they see something going on they think is interesting. Sheesh, its not a big conspiracy, its a watchlist, a feature on Wikipedia that allows you to track recent action in articles you are interested in. --Theblog (talk) 15:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Really, if you had just edited the article, it wouldn't have triggered anything...but the fact that you start going to various user pages, requesting checkusers and causing a big stink over a person with 3 edits being blocked as a sockpuppet raises a lot of flags. --Smashvilletalk 16:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- No checkuser was performed on User:Nizevyn. Why? Well, when an account is blocked for editing disruptively on an obscure article, and promptly a new account is created and continues that behaviour on the same article, you don't need a checkuser because even though it's obvious that they are the same user or a proxy for them, the behaviour is enough to block. I have not blocked User:Theblog because even though there's a high probability that they are also the same user, or related to them, they haven't yet edited disruptively. Black Kite 11:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I am clearly not the same user as those two and I request that you present any evidence that gives you your "high probability" that I am so I can thoroughly refute it. Please assume good faith. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 15:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Your account suddenly resumed editing on a very obscure article, 9 months after its last edit and just after two disruptive accounts which had also concentrated on that very obscure article had been blocked. Therefore, I think you'll find that I am assuming good faith with your account, in that I haven't blocked it because even though it's clearly related, it isn't (currently) disruptive. Where I am not prepared to assume it is with even more obvious - and disruptive - sock/meatpuppet/off-wiki collaboration accounts like User:Nizevyn. I hope this makes everything clear. Black Kite 15:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have covered all of this previously, but I will go over it again for you. I have edited many articles over many years on Wikipedia, including the threshold article, years ago. I stopped editing so frequently, but I still visit the site and check my watchlist. If something tweaks my interest, I jump back in, this time, it was activity on a page I had edited years ago. Again, I have not even edited the page in question recently, I have only responded in discussions due to the obviously high tensions on this article, you apparently can't comment at all on it without being accused of being a sockpuppet, even if you have a long established account on Wikipedia. Please spell out the guideline that I have broken and present your evidence. My explanation is clear and logical, this is not some sort of conspiracy theory, it is someone who uses the watchlist feature. --Theblog (talk) 16:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- *sigh* As I said, I'm assuming good faith, despite the suspicious editing pattern, with your account at the moment. The other account was blocked as a clear violation of WP:SOCK. Which part of this is so difficult to understand? Black Kite 16:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Then why are you here saying there is a high probability of being a sockpuppet when I have a clear explanation of my actions and then saying I am taking people for fools. If you are assuming good faith, please at least stick to the facts you can prove and stop the ad hom attacks. Thank you.--Theblog (talk) 16:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Because the editing patterns show that there *is* clearly a high probability that your account is related (though that does not of course mean that you are the same physical person(s) as the other accounts). Please read and understand WP:SOCK, as I see no point in continuing a circular argument in this manner. Black Kite 16:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- What specific part of WP:SOCK are you saying applies to me? I have refuted them all. You also claimed there was a high probability I was the same person, which is different. Again, your claims are baseless, please assume good faith, I request that you retract your unproven claims and accept the concept of a watchlist trigger of someone who has edited the article in question years ago. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Don't misquote me please, I said "...even though there's a high probability that they are also the same user, or related to them...". As for a watchlist trigger after 9 months? Possible. But very unlikely. Hence "high probability", not "certain". Black Kite 16:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- What specific part of WP:SOCK are you saying applies to me? I have refuted them all. You also claimed there was a high probability I was the same person, which is different. Again, your claims are baseless, please assume good faith, I request that you retract your unproven claims and accept the concept of a watchlist trigger of someone who has edited the article in question years ago. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Because the editing patterns show that there *is* clearly a high probability that your account is related (though that does not of course mean that you are the same physical person(s) as the other accounts). Please read and understand WP:SOCK, as I see no point in continuing a circular argument in this manner. Black Kite 16:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Then why are you here saying there is a high probability of being a sockpuppet when I have a clear explanation of my actions and then saying I am taking people for fools. If you are assuming good faith, please at least stick to the facts you can prove and stop the ad hom attacks. Thank you.--Theblog (talk) 16:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- *sigh* As I said, I'm assuming good faith, despite the suspicious editing pattern, with your account at the moment. The other account was blocked as a clear violation of WP:SOCK. Which part of this is so difficult to understand? Black Kite 16:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have covered all of this previously, but I will go over it again for you. I have edited many articles over many years on Wikipedia, including the threshold article, years ago. I stopped editing so frequently, but I still visit the site and check my watchlist. If something tweaks my interest, I jump back in, this time, it was activity on a page I had edited years ago. Again, I have not even edited the page in question recently, I have only responded in discussions due to the obviously high tensions on this article, you apparently can't comment at all on it without being accused of being a sockpuppet, even if you have a long established account on Wikipedia. Please spell out the guideline that I have broken and present your evidence. My explanation is clear and logical, this is not some sort of conspiracy theory, it is someone who uses the watchlist feature. --Theblog (talk) 16:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Your account suddenly resumed editing on a very obscure article, 9 months after its last edit and just after two disruptive accounts which had also concentrated on that very obscure article had been blocked. Therefore, I think you'll find that I am assuming good faith with your account, in that I haven't blocked it because even though it's clearly related, it isn't (currently) disruptive. Where I am not prepared to assume it is with even more obvious - and disruptive - sock/meatpuppet/off-wiki collaboration accounts like User:Nizevyn. I hope this makes everything clear. Black Kite 15:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I am clearly not the same user as those two and I request that you present any evidence that gives you your "high probability" that I am so I can thoroughly refute it. Please assume good faith. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 15:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Again, you are assuming bad faith, please provide your evidence to the contrary or retract your claims. Wikipedia has an assume good faith policy and I don't believe you are following it. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Let me quote directly for you: "Unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, assume that people who work on the project are trying to help it, not hurt it." It has been clearly established that you do not have "strong evidence to the contrary" so please cease your assumption of bad faith. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- "Assume good faith" doesn't mean "stop using your brain." The assumption that you are connected to the other two accounts is both logical and reasonable. It may turn out to be not true, but someone coming to the conclusion that the three are related isn't a massive violation of AGF. What exactly is it you want here anyway? AniMatetalk 16:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I want this to be removed as I am not sockpuppet or related. I do not know how to go about doing that other than to argue my point. Again, I come back to "strong evidence to the contrary", which there is clearly not, or has not been presented here. What do you want a screenshot of my inbox? I could do that, what exactly is the standard I need to meet? Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- "Assume good faith" doesn't mean "stop using your brain." The assumption that you are connected to the other two accounts is both logical and reasonable. It may turn out to be not true, but someone coming to the conclusion that the three are related isn't a massive violation of AGF. What exactly is it you want here anyway? AniMatetalk 16:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Let me quote directly for you: "Unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, assume that people who work on the project are trying to help it, not hurt it." It has been clearly established that you do not have "strong evidence to the contrary" so please cease your assumption of bad faith. Thank you. --Theblog (talk) 16:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
It's also worth noting that he is now canvassing on Wikipedia: [39][40] --Smashvilletalk 17:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I saw that too, and while his targets would likely be sympathetic, his message is neutral. I still think the best course here is just to keep an eye on the situation, and hope things calm down. AniMatetalk 17:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. I also googled "Nizevyn". It's the name of a character in the game, which furthers my meatpuppetry/offwiki canvassing question. Do they have a forum that anyone knows of? --Smashvilletalk 17:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- We have sockpuppets disrupting the AfD, and users who haven't edited for months suddenly canvassing for it. I'd say that is sufficiently disruptive. Its very obviously an attempt to disrupt the AfD process.--Crossmr (talk) 01:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- CU results at Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Nizevyn. Probable related forum post here. Black Kite 01:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Accusation?
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
I would like to get some comment on this discussion [41] with user:Ceedjee, in which he seems to be accusing me of being the sock-puppet of a banned user, ShevaShalosh. Am I misunderstanding something? Malcolm Schosha (talk) 14:45, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ceedjee is addressing me as ShevaShalosh, which in Hebrew means SevenThree. When I did a google search to get some clarification on that, it turned up that ShevaShalosh is the user name of a banned user. So Ceedjee, by addressing me as ShevaShalosh, instead of my actual user name, seems to be accusing me of being the sock-puppet of a banned user. Is it difficult to understand why I have a problem with that? If he thinks he has grounds for the accusation, he could request a check user. I have nothing to worry if that is done. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- As you already know Malcom, it's moderately uncivil to simply make accusations of sockpuppetry in order to quell discussion. If it's blatant, tell the user to put up or shut up: either file their report at WP:SSP or give up the accusations. I didn't think any of us needed to tell you that. ♪BMWΔ 14:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Plus, you seem to have an apology on that same page. ♪BMWΔ 14:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- As you already know Malcom, it's moderately uncivil to simply make accusations of sockpuppetry in order to quell discussion. If it's blatant, tell the user to put up or shut up: either file their report at WP:SSP or give up the accusations. I didn't think any of us needed to tell you that. ♪BMWΔ 14:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Bwilkins has put the resolved template on a discussion (above) that is not resolved. Further discussion and an answer to my question would be much appreciated. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I "restored" the template, I did not "put" the template. ♪BMWΔ 15:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Why the separate thread Malcom? It's a new complaint against me? If it's related to the above, then it belongs as a sub-section of the above. ♪BMWΔ 15:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It is not a complaint against you, although I do not appreciate you dismissive attitude. I want this as a separate thread, and not one marked closed. Humor me. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- My question was not answered. I am trying to figure out why Ceedjee addressed me as ShevaShalosh, instead of by my actual user name [42]. It appears that ShevaShalosh is a banned user. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Your question was answered by this diff. Other than, why would you ask us why someone else did something ... no WP:CRYSTAL here, you would need to ask the other user, not us ... I am restoring this as a sub-thread of the above. ♪BMWΔ 15:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It may have been an answer, but not to that question I actually asked. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well gee Malcolm, as I suggested above, it's a question you need to ask the other USER, and not ask here. On your behalf, I have asked the same question on their talkpage. Further answers need to come from them, not guesses from anyone on this page. ♪BMWΔ 15:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I did ask Ceedjee, as can be seen on my talk page where that discussion occurred, but did not get an explanation. My question has not been answered. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
By the way, Bwilkins, this discussion between the two of us is filling up page space without going anywhere. Since you seem to have said what you have to say, why not stop now. I will be happy to wait for a reply from a user who understands the background of who ShevaShalosh is, and why Ceedjee would choose to address me as ShevaShalosh. That is what I am looking for. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- My usual approach with name-calling is to ignore it. The only thing that matters here is article content. If he's interfering with your ability to post valid article content, then that's more of an ANI concern, as it's disruption. Otherwise, if he continues to claim that you're a sock, after all this discussion, then ask him to stop. If he still won't stop, then bring it back here. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- You are certainly right about ignoring name-calling. Thanks. But, at this point, it was not a an accusation against Ceedjee. I really am trying to figure out the context, and reason for his calling me ShevaShalosh. There must be a history to this. I know that AN/I is not intended as a place ot ask questions, but (as far as I know) it is not forbidden, and it is the place on WP which stands to be seen by the most users, and so the place that someone who knows the story will see my question. Sorry I this was a disruptive, it was not intended that way. I just hoped someone would see and answer. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 16:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hence, asking the person who said it in the first place and then wait for their reply. People can be blocked by many people for many reasons, and may not be readily "memorable". This is not ANI material. ♪BMWΔ 16:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- You are certainly right about ignoring name-calling. Thanks. But, at this point, it was not a an accusation against Ceedjee. I really am trying to figure out the context, and reason for his calling me ShevaShalosh. There must be a history to this. I know that AN/I is not intended as a place ot ask questions, but (as far as I know) it is not forbidden, and it is the place on WP which stands to be seen by the most users, and so the place that someone who knows the story will see my question. Sorry I this was a disruptive, it was not intended that way. I just hoped someone would see and answer. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 16:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I said that, but is there a rule against asking a question? Malcolm Schosha (talk) 16:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- There is no rule against asking questions, per se, but AN/I is an extremely busy and drama-riddled noticeboard (the worst in Wikipedia), and people tend to forget about being courteous here, unfortunately. I can see why you would want to know the answer to your question, but I don't think you'll find any help here. Even those of us who remember Shevashalosh are not likely to know you, no offense intended, so I doubt anyone here can make a connection between you. However, a search like this might turn up at least the reasons why Shevashalosh was blocked, and if you find any similarities between your own contributions and Shevashalosh's, you may be able to guess the connection. But in the absence of a straight answer from Ceedjee, nobody can know for sure. Personally, it seems to me that Ceedjee realizes he or she made a mistake in calling you that, and that there isn't any actual connection. So I would just forget about it, if you can. I hope this helps, and if you have any further questions feel free to take them to my talk page and I'll try to assist (sorry for posting here in an archived discussion). -kotra (talk) 02:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
User:ToTheCircus constantly reverting article against complete consensus of other editors
ToTheCircus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is an WP:SPA concerning the topic of the missing in action following the Vietnam War. This is a long, complex, emotional topic to some, and the consensus of all editors other than ToTheCircus is that it is best dealt with in its own article, Vietnam War POW/MIA issue, rather than in the Missing in action article, which needs to cover the general topic of missing in action across all nations and all wars. This consensus is being clearly reaffirmed by an RfC that's in progress, where five editors (HowardMorland, Nick-D, Jeff G., Nabokov, and myself) are for the split-off and only ToTheCircus is against it. Meanwhile, ToTheCircus has repeatedly reverted the contents of the Missing in action article back to his/her preferred state that includes heavy and very slanted coverage of the Vietnam-specific issue. The most recent set of such reversions has included this edit and this edit and this edit and just now again, this edit. ToTheCircus marks all these edits as being against "vandalism", an absurd claim. ToTheCircus has several warnings already on his/her talk page for abuses on this subject area. Several editors are interested in improving both the Missing in action article and the Vietnam War POW/MIA issue article, but we can't get anywhere if we spend all our efforts dealing with this editor. I am requesting that ToTheCircus be blocked. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Notified ToTheCircus of this thread. Sandstein 00:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- After a brief review of his contributions, I would support a block for edit warring on Missing in action. His talk page comments, while very lengthy, do not seem to make much sense. I'm going offline now, though, so others will have to continue the review. Sandstein 00:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I've been keeping an eye on the Missing in action article for the last year or so, and fully agree with Wasted Time R's above post. ToTheCircus has just reverted the article again to the version which only they support (labeling the changes 'vandalism'): [43], though I've reverted this change per the discussion on the article's talk page. I also support blocking this editor, and also request that the page be protected. Nick-D (talk) 01:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- ToTheCircus has now done yet another reversion, still labelling as vandalism, with this edit. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- As an outside, uninvolved editor, I submitted the page protection request. If someone wants to admend or update the request, please feel free. - NeutralHomer • Talk • January 4, 2009 @ 06:06
- I have blocked ToTheCircus (talk · contribs) 24 hours for edit warring on Missing in action. Though he is not over 3RR currently, he has been systematically reverting the article back to his own version since early December. Mere participation on the Talk page does not justify an attempt to get your way by reverting the article. If he doesn't stop using the word 'vandalism' incorrectly he may need to be reviewed for disruptive editing as well. Article protection is not logical if only one side is edit warring. EdJohnston (talk) 06:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, was just trying to help out. If you like, you can remove the RPP request. :) Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk • January 4, 2009 @ 06:18
- I have blocked ToTheCircus (talk · contribs) 24 hours for edit warring on Missing in action. Though he is not over 3RR currently, he has been systematically reverting the article back to his own version since early December. Mere participation on the Talk page does not justify an attempt to get your way by reverting the article. If he doesn't stop using the word 'vandalism' incorrectly he may need to be reviewed for disruptive editing as well. Article protection is not logical if only one side is edit warring. EdJohnston (talk) 06:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Unresolved
This user despite continued notifications continues to (sprinkled among some apparent good faith edits) continues to make major alterations to film article budgets and grosses without sourcing or edit summary. I can no longer keep up with the articles. The user hasn't used a summary once in their history or cited a source in their prolific editing. I'm concerned about the integrity of all these film article across the board as this user has changed a lot of information on Wp without any explanation. Thanks. Mjpresson (talk) 15:22, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Also this user had his user page deleted for continuing to post improper content after being notified twice. Mjpresson (talk) 15:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have looked at a couple of examples, and have to say that the lack of communication is a problem - they do seem to place a couple of sources at the end of the "rewrite", but it is difficult to say that they cover all the changes. I am going to drop a couple of warning templates on their page and ask that they respond to the concerns raised. We will then take if from there if needs be. LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Another issue you may not have seen is inserting text into already cited statements. Mjpresson (talk) 17:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I concur with the assessment. I've tried to communicate with the editor about removing {{defaultsort}} and non-breaking spaces from articles as well as re-sorting articles' categories in a non-alphabetical way. A lot of the edits are beneficial, but there are so many changes in an edit without a summary that it is difficult to review the changes (especially when sections are shuffled). It would be nice to actually initiate a conversation with the editor and communicate what changes work and what changes don't. —Erik (talk • contrib) 18:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Another issue you may not have seen is inserting text into already cited statements. Mjpresson (talk) 17:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have looked at a couple of examples, and have to say that the lack of communication is a problem - they do seem to place a couple of sources at the end of the "rewrite", but it is difficult to say that they cover all the changes. I am going to drop a couple of warning templates on their page and ask that they respond to the concerns raised. We will then take if from there if needs be. LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Twice I have asked this editor to refer to film project style guidelines, but he continues to change articles to suit his own preferences rather than the general consensus without ever acknowledging having received messages from myself or, it appears, from others. If he engaged in some sort of dialogue it would be easier to determine if his edits are sincere and simply misguided, but the fact he chooses to carry on without comment suggests he is determined to do things his way, which to date has included deleting complete plot summaries, rearranging articles into sequences that make no sense, and adding data without any references. LiteraryMaven (talk) 17:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I strongly suspect this user to be a sockpuppet of User:AshTFrankFurter2 (see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/AshTFrankFurter2). My suspicions are based on the similar user page (ObsessiveJoBroDisorder's now deleted - perhaps an admin could confirm), with a link to the identical myspace page used by the other sockpuppets, and similar patterns of editing. These sockpuppets have been blocked in the past for trolling ([45]), vandalism ([46]) and using sockpuppets to evade indefinite blocks.([47]) --BelovedFreak 12:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Temporary emergency desysop of User:Hemanshu
Hemanshu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been the subject of concern for a considerable time, including an RFC (October) and various final warnings on his talk page, including a desysop discussion on another wiki. An RFAR motion was filed on 31 December in light of these concerns, which had not been resolved.
A concern has now arisen regarding sock-puppetry (WP:SSP/Hemanshu), which confirmed that while at RFAR, the user had begun sockpuppet activity on "year" articles similar to those he had previously edit warred: Wikipedianforever (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) created Jan 2 2009. The sock use is Confirmed by behavior and checkuser.
By itself, a single SPA sock would not warrant more than blocking and noting at RFAR. Further checkuser investigation to confirm there was no other abuse, however, shows serious concerns and irregularities on an involved IP range, that had not come to light, including suggestions of a possible nest of sleepers. Other evidence suggests a clear possibility that there is a pattern of ongoing misconduct although further analysis is needed. We also note that the user is at RFAR due to unresponsiveness in the first place, which suggests a request to stop a given problem behavior would not be sufficiently protective.
Accordingly an "emergency desysop" of the user has been requested for protective/preventative purposes, until other Arbitrators can review the evidence of the community and checkuser findings in full, and the RFAR case is concluded. An IP range that is of concern in the case was also hard-blocked short term pending the same review. Full details and checkuser data have been circulated within the Arbitration Committee.
FT2 (Talk | email) 20:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I concur with this assessment of the situation, and confirm its factual accuracy. — Coren (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks FT2 and to the rest of the committee for the quick action - You've made the right move here. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have looked at the publicly known evidence and I think the right call has been made here. Orderinchaos 11:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Me category listing
User:Me added an admin category listing to his page several months ago, which I questioned after the edit's odd edit summary and some research, and which User:Neurolysis recently removed. Me has since readded the category with another odd response on his talk page, and I'm not sure how to verify the information. Probably not a big deal, but I had some disagreements with this editor several months ago, and our exchanges and Me's editing history don't seem consistent with these latest edits. Flowanda | Talk 22:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's misleading, since they aren't an admin, so I have removed it and left them a message accordingly. GbT/c 22:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- By the way, as this seems to come up quite frequently here: when wondering whether an account has admin rights, check Special:ListUsers. Admins have "(Administrator)" next to their username—it's that simple. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 22:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Is there a chance that this editor's account was somehow compromised? Not trying to cause trouble, but the latest editing behaviour is odd. Flowanda | Talk 22:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I removed the cat but I have been reverted with a Get out of my life edit summary. BigDuncTalk 23:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's damned odd. Maybe the account has been compromised. Can it be indef blocked until the user pipes up with some reasoning? Blowing off admin suggestions and posts is pretty much a red flag the size of Portugal that something is amiss. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 23:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I removed the cat but I have been reverted with a Get out of my life edit summary. BigDuncTalk 23:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Is there a chance that this editor's account was somehow compromised? Not trying to cause trouble, but the latest editing behaviour is odd. Flowanda | Talk 22:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- By the way, as this seems to come up quite frequently here: when wondering whether an account has admin rights, check Special:ListUsers. Admins have "(Administrator)" next to their username—it's that simple. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 22:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- No one has claimed to be an admin. There is no rule claiming I cannot be included in the particular group. If there is, and it is shown here, I shall forgo the restoration. Until then, it shall stay. Thank you for your concern. -- MeHolla! 23:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- By adding yourself to Category:Wikipedia administrators, you're claiming to be an admin. Common sense trumps a lack of policy. I've fully protected your userpage; if you're an admin, you'll have no problem unprotecting it. EVula // talk // ☯ // 23:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Removed the category again. I'm considering upping the ante next time. EVula // talk // ☯ // 23:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- FWIW, I doubt it's a compromised account: he added the category and thought it was funny way back in July. Not that it's a huge deal, just misleading. Antandrus (talk) 23:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Making a funny edit was the odd part. But that was probably part of the BS -- see our exchange at Talk: Simon Property Group#Press releases as sources.Flowanda | Talk 23:38, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- FWIW, I doubt it's a compromised account: he added the category and thought it was funny way back in July. Not that it's a huge deal, just misleading. Antandrus (talk) 23:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Moral of the story: Ol' Flo still has a grudge and is trying to get back at me months after the fact. Holding grudges ups your blood pressure. You should look into Yoga, or something similar. -- MeHolla! 23:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I updated Category:Administrators to make it slightly less useful to people who would abuse it. There are some categories that should be bot-patrolled for false entries, this is one of them. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Page has been protected (not by me). I agree with the protection. User has had enough warnings. --Rschen7754 (T C) 23:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Gads. I feel a disturbance in the Force, as if a thousand vandals all cried out in glee with a single voice. I think this is an iceberg tip. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 00:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- User:J1nxwiki seems to be in the cat, but doesn't have it on his user page. Not sure what is going on there. User:Le Faux Nez de L'Aquatique is not an admin, but the operator is, so that seems just dandy to me. — neuro(talk) 00:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I just rollbacked this. Um, I don't think so. --Rschen7754 (T C) 00:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
-
- Do not put that template back again. I am fully willing to issue a block in this situation for disruption. --Rschen7754 (T C) 00:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- LMFAO. The template has been gone for awhile now, and the page has been protected (apparently I'm a risk to myself). Let's try to keep up, ok pal? Oh, and don't delete my message to UV. I have a right to post on his talk page, and he has the right to read it. If he wants to delete my obviously joking, tongue-in-cheek statement is up to him, not you. Thank you. -- MeHolla! 00:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wow, edit warring on my talk page. I feel so loved. EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Nice edit summaries. — neuro(talk) 00:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocked 24 hr - I don't see leaving false talk page warnings as constructive to the encyclopedia. Considering that WP:TWINKLE was used to do so, this makes it even worse. --Rschen7754 (T C) 01:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Gee, that was fun. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 01:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- User has requested unblock with the rationale that Rschen has his "gonads in a bunch". — neuro(talk) 04:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I declined as an uncivil (and other things) request without reviewing edit history. Daniel Case (talk) 05:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- And another unblock request: [48]. Not that I think it will go anywhere. --Rschen7754 (T C) 05:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I declined as an uncivil (and other things) request without reviewing edit history. Daniel Case (talk) 05:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- User has requested unblock with the rationale that Rschen has his "gonads in a bunch". — neuro(talk) 04:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Do not put that template back again. I am fully willing to issue a block in this situation for disruption. --Rschen7754 (T C) 00:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Advice on userpage on child
- Silver Hawx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I've just come across a userpage - perfectly OK, but the user says he was born in 1997 which makes him an 11 year old. There's also a picture of him on there. See here. I think it should be removed, but don't know what the correct action is to do in this situation. Thanks, D.M.N. (talk) 13:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Also - anyone smell a sock? D.M.N. (talk) 13:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- From WP:CHILD, which I'm aware is an essay, but it's a good one to follow:
“ | Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose identifying personal information should be informed of the potential dangers of such disclosure. They should be advised that disclosing personal information is a bad idea and is potentially dangerous. Deletion and oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information. | ” |
- Garden. 13:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for that. Based on User:Silver Hawx (who declares himself as Matt Winter) and User:Self Preteder I think this is a sock. D.M.N. (talk) 13:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Orangemarlin (resolved)
User:Orangemarlin made this personal attack here:[[49]] with the edit summary accusing me of being racist (another personal attack). I left him this civil warning, not wishing to template aregular, and stating as much here [[50]] which he deleted and left the uncivil edit summary of "what the fuck ever" here [[51]]. I resored the message with this due to the uncivil response [[52]] and he propmpty templated me here for " vandalism"[[53]] and removed and identified my civil warning as vandalism here [[54]] he then left the following uncivil edit comment here at a deletion conversation [[55]]. Orangemarlin has a long and recent history of this type of behaviour. Perhaps someoen could talk to him or give him a short break.Die4Dixie (talk) 08:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, but reading through the entire exchange, you really seem to be goading him on, and rather rudely. Absolutely, he could have made his point with a better choice of words than " you have the racial sensitivity of an amoeba" but honestly, I don't think anyone would call [this] or [this] comment to be racially sensitive. And the reply that caused him to say "what the fuck ever" was when you commented that his saying he was "shaking with anger" was an unfortunate choice of words given stereotypes about "spastic Jews." [56] I wouldn't exactly call that civil discourse either. Sounds like you both just need to back off.--Loonymonkey (talk) 08:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think my original comments that you are labeling "racially insensative" were geramne to the discussion". In a discussion about Jewish stereotypes it is either insensitive or naive to refer to "shaking with anger". The insensitivity is his and he should know better than to use that streotypifying language in a discussion about Jews. I'm sure several readers were as offended as I was.Die4Dixie (talk) 08:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think most non-involved editors would agree that someone saying they are "shaking with anger" is slightly less than civil but not really offensive, whereas replying to them that the word "shaking" brings to mind "spastic Jews" is actually pretty offensive. --Loonymonkey (talk) 09:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry . He made a direct refernce to that stereotype which I'm sure the Jewish editors would have been able to pick up on immediately. I know I did. It was a direct reference to that and gratuitious on his part.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, no. Nobody mentioned anything about "spastic Jews" in that discussion until you did. To say that the phrase "I'm shaking with anger" is an obvious reference to "spastic Jews" defies credulity. Also, I'm not sure why you are assuming that Orangemarlin isn't Jewish when you refer to "the Jewish editors." --Loonymonkey (talk) 09:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I responded on your talkpage, where further discussion between us can take place so as not to impede this process here.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I see no need to move this discussion to my talk page. This is the subject of the an/i after all, isn't it?--Loonymonkey (talk) 09:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry . He made a direct refernce to that stereotype which I'm sure the Jewish editors would have been able to pick up on immediately. I know I did. It was a direct reference to that and gratuitious on his part.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think most non-involved editors would agree that someone saying they are "shaking with anger" is slightly less than civil but not really offensive, whereas replying to them that the word "shaking" brings to mind "spastic Jews" is actually pretty offensive. --Loonymonkey (talk) 09:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think my original comments that you are labeling "racially insensative" were geramne to the discussion". In a discussion about Jewish stereotypes it is either insensitive or naive to refer to "shaking with anger". The insensitivity is his and he should know better than to use that streotypifying language in a discussion about Jews. I'm sure several readers were as offended as I was.Die4Dixie (talk) 08:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
(ec) Orangemarlin doesn't always pick the kindest or fittest of wordings. I've even brought this up with him quite lately. However, he can remove what he likes from his own talk page and Die4Dixie, I think you're taunting him. Please stop that. Gwen Gale (talk) 09:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Of course he can, but after telling him with a civil note that I wouldn't template him, he abuses the template to be uncivil. Of course he can remove it. I only restored it because of the continued civility problems. bait him? I would have perfered never to have had him ever direct a comment at me. He personalized my comments. I was blissfully unaware of him until hes started attacking me.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I suggest that you just drop it. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 09:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- That was not particularly helpful.
Between the WP:POINTy wikilinking my username by Gwen after I have several signed live posts on this discussion and not wikilinking Orangemarlin's and your laconic response, I'm wondering why my report has been met by bath faith assumptions.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)- You made what was, perhaps, a poor choice of words and Orangemarlin responded accordingly (although his reponse might have been a bit harsh). As of right now, no one is willing to take any action, so I can't see how continuing to engage on this issue is helpful. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 09:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I can live with that. In looking through his contributions, it appears that there is a strong likelyhood of his being Jewish [[57]] ( I hadn't read that comment), so I should have assumed good faith about the shaking comment. I see Gwen has had discussions in the past about civility with him. Perhaps she would be willing to have another. Case closed as far as I'm concerned too.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:29, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- You made what was, perhaps, a poor choice of words and Orangemarlin responded accordingly (although his reponse might have been a bit harsh). As of right now, no one is willing to take any action, so I can't see how continuing to engage on this issue is helpful. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 09:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- That was not particularly helpful.
- I suggest that you just drop it. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 09:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Not so fast. I'd say this is a pretty clear case of you trying to game the system to cause someone you dislike to be blocked, via goading him. I propose an admin-administered reversal of fortune. Jtrainor (talk) 09:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Dislike? Where in the world do I know this user from? Where have I interacted with him to dislike him? You are welcomed to make the proposal.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Helpful hint, D4D: Drop it now. Gwen Gale (talk) 09:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Ironically, amoebas are distant cousins of white blood cells. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Helpful hint, D4D: Drop it now. Gwen Gale (talk) 09:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Dislike? Where in the world do I know this user from? Where have I interacted with him to dislike him? You are welcomed to make the proposal.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Blatant breach of WP:HARASS by User:Barba Nane
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
The IP of the indeffed User:Ragusino posted (alleged) personal information about my identity on Talk:House of Bondić/Bonda [58] and on the talkpage of User:Barba Nane [59] (who kept it there).
The personal information on Talk:House of Bondić/Bonda was removed and User:EdJohnston semi-protected the page [60]. However, User:Barba Nane reverted the removal [61], placing personal information back on the talkpage. I removed the info again [62] from both Talk:House of Bondić/Bonda and User:Barba Nane's talkpage, and left User:Barba Nane a standard WP:WARNING. Clearly warned, he promptly removed the warning and once more restored the personal information both on Talk:House of Bondić/Bonda [63] and on his own talkpage [64].
Furthermore, there is a strong possibility he is a sockpuppet of the banned User:Ragusino or User:Luigi 28 (both of which are reported above [65]). It is likely the sock was created to avoid User:EdJohnston's semi-protection of articles such as Talk:House of Bondić/Bonda (and others, listed above [66]). --DIREKTOR (TALK) 12:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Final, FINAL warning issued, if only because I'm a lenient person. Garden. 12:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Got off easy if you ask me... :) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 12:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- The 1st thing is I never posted personal info about you. About user Ragusino, I've previously written here [67]. I do not know this user and I will no more revert him. --Barba Nane (talk) 13:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Now blocked. Black Kite 16:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- The 1st thing is I never posted personal info about you. About user Ragusino, I've previously written here [67]. I do not know this user and I will no more revert him. --Barba Nane (talk) 13:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Jake Gyllenhaal forgeries back again
We've been through this before:[68].
Series of userpages dedicated to creating intricate forged articles about a mythical rock tour by Jake Gyllenhaal. This time, it's on OperatorMan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and restricted to a single userpage.—Kww(talk) 14:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Suggest WP:DUCK block, also deletion of aforementioned page. — neuro(talk) 14:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocked indef AO ACB. — neuro(talk) 14:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- (ec) Blocked and deleted. If someone has the time and disposition, it might be a good idea to do a periodical userspace check of WhatLinksHere on valid links used in the hoax (e.g. [69]). Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blocked indef AO ACB. — neuro(talk) 14:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Regarding 90.201.141.202; disruptive user.
I made another report a couple of days ago, that can be viewed here in the archive. He was given another final warning, but he's still going at it. Erzsébet Báthory(talk|contr.) 14:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
In the words of LHVU, "long term sanctions" may well be appropriate here. Clearly disruptive anon. — neuro(talk) 14:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)- Sorry, had wrong window open. Could you link me to the disruption? Thanks. — neuro(talk) 14:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- I had a look, and think that I have dealt with this editor before - changing or adding genres, adding names to info boxes, etc. I am uncertain if they are bad faith, but they are certainly disruptive and I have blocked for a month (a previous ip was blocked for 3 months). As ever, review welcome. LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, had wrong window open. Could you link me to the disruption? Thanks. — neuro(talk) 14:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Harold Pinter and associated articles
Viewers of Talk:Harold Pinter will see that one particular editor User:NYScholar is seemingly impervious to useful suggestions from other editors about the style and content of the articles, see also Biography for Harold Pinter. The article is becoming increasingly bogged down with minutiae and a mishmash of impenetrable citation styles making it heavy and unreadable. That is a great pity in my opinion. The editor in question undoubtedly has a wealth of informtion and research on the subject but does not seem to grasp that an encyclopedia article is not a thesis or article in a learned journal. I ask here what can be done, or should I just let that editor get on with it. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- This noticeboard is for situations that require the intervention of administrators. If this is not such a situation, as appears to be the case, I recommend that you proceed per WP:DR. Sandstein 16:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for that, I will request editor assistance. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
I removed User:Aazzaa's curse words [70] but I think some admin should block the account for that. The "comment" was not made in the heat of an argument but the so far only edit of the account for quite a while, it was also left unsigned and was signed later by a bot. Skäpperöd (talk) 16:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- User has been warned about the issue. Corruptcopper (talk) 17:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I've left the user a warning for his/her edits. Please note that the user's earlier contributions are quite valid and a single comment can't be the reason for a block. Should the user continue such obvious vandalism, you should warn again and if the behavior continues past final warning, you can consider reporting him/her to WP:AIV, which is the board for obvious vandalism. LeaveSleaves 17:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
user:Astolfo Petrazzi -- Gwp sock
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png)
Astolfo Petrazzi (talk · contribs) is a grawp-sock doing the usual page-move vandalism. After he moved caffeine to *HEŖM E E?, Nawlinwiki moved it back and move-protected *HEŖM E E?, but nobody has yet blocked user:Astolfo Petrazzi. I mention this here instead of AIV because I'm puzzled by the admin actions. Looie496 (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)