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::::::Many unfortunate and unwarranted claims were made beginning Oct 31, 2010. People accusing you of leading Rlevse into a trap is just one of the many ridiculous ones. Don't even get me started on the rest. I'm still suffering from the fallout of that sordid mess and always will as wiki never forgives and never forgets. Some users have moved on but "the community" as a whole won't. @Demi and Liz, thank you for your supportive comments. [[User:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">Pumpkin</font><font color="darkblue">Sky</font>]] [[User talk:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">talk</font>]] 20:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
::::::Many unfortunate and unwarranted claims were made beginning Oct 31, 2010. People accusing you of leading Rlevse into a trap is just one of the many ridiculous ones. Don't even get me started on the rest. I'm still suffering from the fallout of that sordid mess and always will as wiki never forgives and never forgets. Some users have moved on but "the community" as a whole won't. @Demi and Liz, thank you for your supportive comments. [[User:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">Pumpkin</font><font color="darkblue">Sky</font>]] [[User talk:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">talk</font>]] 20:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
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::::::::That part needs some serious reform. It's one thing to dislike recidivism, it's another to never forgive and never offer redemption. As for me, I don't buy the crap that if you don't forget you haven't forgiven - I don't ever forget (much, anyway, age crap notwithstanding, and where the hell are my car keys, anyway?) but sometimes, when enough time has gone by and I've added more data to a situation, I occasionally forgive. Maybe. Wiki needs to do at least that well, and if they could choose to purge certain records from people's "file", it might not be a bad thing. [[User:Montanabw|<font color="006600">Montanabw</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 21:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
::::::::That part needs some serious reform. It's one thing to dislike recidivism, it's another to never forgive and never offer redemption. As for me, I don't buy the crap that if you don't forget you haven't forgiven - I don't ever forget (much, anyway, age crap notwithstanding, and where the hell are my car keys, anyway?) but sometimes, when enough time has gone by and I've added more data to a situation, I occasionally forgive. Maybe. Wiki needs to do at least that well, and if they could choose to purge certain records from people's "file", it might not be a bad thing. [[User:Montanabw|<font color="006600">Montanabw</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 21:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== A barnstar for you! == |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Teamwork Barnstar''' |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your suggestions and participation in the [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Blackwater fire of 1937/archive1|FAC]] for [[Blackwater fire of 1937]]...it is now a Featured Article. [[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 15:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 15:25, 14 September 2013
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Gadsden_flag.svg/250px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png)
- User:PumpkinSky/Articles
- User:PumpkinSky/Awards
- User:PumpkinSky/Gerda's and MTBW's To Do List For Psky
- User:PumpkinSky/Sandbox
- User:PumpkinSky/Sandbox2
- User:PumpkinSky/Tools
- NRHP Query
- NRHP Query by County
- Email John Boughton at JBoughton@mt.gov for help; according to this page, you should contact him for NR-related information
- Request the nomination from nr_reference@nps.gov
- NRHP db
- 28bytes' bot
- Dunning–Kruger effect - interesting ramifications for wiki
- {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}}
- {{Now Commons}}
- DYK and TFA hits: Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics, Wikipedia:Today's featured article/Most viewed, Wikipedia:Today's featured article/Statistics, TOP25 for Kafka
if you're interested
VPP discussion — Ched : ? 22:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, I said "*Strong support get rid of this horrendous idea." PumpkinSky talk 23:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Precious teamwork
A year ago, Yogo sapphire appeared on the Main page, your return as a respected writer of featured articles, assisted by a great team, - Wikipedia at its best. I am very pleased that a Bach cantata shared the same page, Ein ungefärbt Gemüte, - the title can be translated as "An open mind" ;)
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:42, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Ach du liebe! Danke sehr! PumpkinSky talk 10:14, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Cinderella is nothing compared to your way from socking serial plagiarizer to founder of project Quality Article Improvement and author of the (so far) most successful TFA, Franz Kafka. Happy to share that way, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Me too. PumpkinSky talk 11:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Cinderella is nothing compared to your way from socking serial plagiarizer to founder of project Quality Article Improvement and author of the (so far) most successful TFA, Franz Kafka. Happy to share that way, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Burnham article update
I'll going to be unavailable on WP for the next two weeks. We have made a lot of progress and I just wanted you to know that I haven't given up with the article. Thanks for all of your help! Ctatkinson (talk) 18:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
- OK. I'll plug away at it as much as I can. Check in when you get back. PumpkinSky talk 20:07, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
DYK for Beelzebub's tube-nosed bat
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
DYK for Ashy-gray tube-nosed bat
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
DYK for Walston's tube-nosed bat
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Your day today! 100 DYK and TFA, - I will let someone else say it more poetic ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, it's a good wiki day too huh? FYI you made a red link in your post. Thanks! That 99, 100, and 101 DYKs. PumpkinSky talk 09:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- That "outstanding" link will turn blue, just wait, Amalthea's bot takes care of our history, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, it's a good wiki day too huh? FYI you made a red link in your post. Thanks! That 99, 100, and 101 DYKs. PumpkinSky talk 09:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Precious
![]() |
My precious |
Congratulations on the Franz Kafka TFA and reaching 100 DYKs!! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 09:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC) |
- Danke sehr!!!PumpkinSky talk 09:59, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- And today's Google Doodle is for Kafka's birthday, based on The Metamorphosis. What a Kafkaesque day, plus my three bat DYKs!!PumpkinSky talk 11:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- link to Guardian's Kafka google doodle article PumpkinSky talk 14:04, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
- And today's Google Doodle is for Kafka's birthday, based on The Metamorphosis. What a Kafkaesque day, plus my three bat DYKs!!PumpkinSky talk 11:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Carrots
Carrots!
As a previous recipient of the Pony Prize, here are some carrots for your pony, recognizing Kafka as TFA! We want to reward good behavior, but we don't want your pony to have too many calories because ponies are prone to be easy keepers! Montanabw(talk) 16:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
To send a pony or a treat to other wonderful and responsible editors, click here.
Oxbow (horse) now has five support votes! I'd give your Appy Pony yet more carrots for this, but he is in danger of laminitis if he eats too much! Montanabw(talk) 18:17, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
DYK medal
![]() |
The 100 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal | |
To PumpkinSky, for making a brilliant comeback and providing a plethora of articles on subjects ranging from Eagle Scouts and Medal of Honor winners to devil bats and dismal swamps. Congratulations on 100 DYKs! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 4 July 2013 (UTC) |
- Thank you very much Crisco! PumpkinSky talk 01:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Franz Kafka all time top TFA!!!
- [1] 768,586 hits
- Wikipedia:Today's featured article/Most viewed
- WP:TOP25
- YEE HAW PumpkinSky talk 01:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Like - Although if the Google Doodle had linked directly to Wikipedia as it had done in the past I bet you'd have hit a million. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:13, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- OH WELL, it was still awesome! PumpkinSky talk 02:14, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- The Top 25 is updated every Sunday and is usually complete by Monday. Serendipodous 05:42, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Congratulations! BencherliteTalk 10:03, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Congrats buddy!!! (and w00t woot .. a "real" editing window ... lol) (wonder if my own talk is like that) — Ched : ? 10:48, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Like Sweet! I'd give you more carrots, but your pony might get too sassy! Montanabw(talk) 17:42, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Hey, that's awesome; congratulations, PumpkinSky! Acalamari 17:51, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi
Could you please take a look at the hits on Elsa Hosk. I dont think that has been added to DYKstats. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Done PumpkinSky talk 00:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks!--BabbaQ (talk) 00:26, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- The Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret seems to not have been added to DYKstats. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- I don't do DYK anymore. Ask Bluemoonset. PumpkinSky talk 22:06, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- The Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret seems to not have been added to DYKstats. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks!--BabbaQ (talk) 00:26, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
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WMF
I think you may have got something wrong: I know you're just following orders from WMF - Jorm is the one that gives the orders, or at least one of the top five or six in the entire hierarchy there. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:46, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, well, he seems to have gotten my point. I'm tired of their total disregard for the volunteers and the way they shove crappily tested and unwanted software changes down our throats. PumpkinSky talk 20:49, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Well I have to agree with you there. Most of them, including the depity CEO know me well enough, and when I was in the US last year, I got the metaphorical feeling they were diving under the tables when they saw me entering the room ;) When some some of the lower paid staff were told I was around and would like to meet them, my friends were told to F*** off. Nice from an employee, what? (it's all documented here on Wikipedia). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Brandon is not "one of the top five or six in the entire hierarchy", he's a designer. He has *counts* 3 people between him and the ED, which is the same number of people as I do. We clearly have different recollections of Wikimania. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:55, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- The first misunderstanding is easily explicable. Kudpung has many, many years of experience - decades of experience in fact! - as a teacher, lecturer and so forth. (I hope I'm not giving too much away here, I'm pretty sure he mentioned it on-wiki at some point. At least once.) So much experience, that large proportions of what he has learned may be wisdom from ages past. In some of those ages, long hair could be a sign of power or prestige - see Samson for example. I'm sure you'll agree, Oliver, that if the ability to "give the orders" (as Kudpung so nicely puts it) were decided in such old-fashioned ways, then Jorm would be way ahead of you. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- I just saw a myriad of posts so I thought I would join in and comment on a couple things. I think the current VisualEditor is garbage but it does have potential if the WMF would quite trying to shove it down our throats and make us live with a broken half assed and incomplete prototype. Flow on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. From what I know about it, it will only be on User talk pages and a couple others...maybe. So we will still need to know 2 different ways to post comments. Which is really really stupid and will not make things easier. Its also impossible to turn off, however it is possible to trick a couple ways if you don't want to use it. You could just create a subpage and redirect the talk page their and viola, the Flow has been blocked. You could also code a script to clone on of the talk pages that doesn't use flow and thereby bypass it that way. So to say that Flow cannot be turned off isn't entirely accurate. Its just a pain in the ass. With all that said, I do not think creating a bunch of pretty applications is going to fix our problem with a lack of editors. That is a cultural problem. Until we can make the culture more inviting by getting rid of the bad admins and editors, then people will continue to avoid the place. Oh and stop forcing shit like VE down our throats and breaking a bunch of stuff because the folks at WMF are too impatient to do proper testing of an application that everyone knows is broken. Kumioko (talk) 01:02, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Not much to disagree with there. PumpkinSky talk 01:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Some people might find this interesting. It's essential to follow the link back from the first word in the first post on the thread. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Kumioko, have you considered the possibility that statements like "stop forcing shit...down our throats" is the sort of thing that contributes to the culture you're complaining about? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- @Okeyes, yep I considered that...not long after the WMF did it. They don't seem to be particularly interested in the literally hundreds of comments from people saying that deploying VE with all these problems is just plum stupid. I have been here for years and I have seen a lot of software releases here and in my real life job. I cannot point to one (other than maybe the release of timeline on Facebook) that was more universally hated than this release of VE. If you folks are trying to get people to like and use VE, then you are currently your own worst enemy. As it is, I'm not even doing any edits other than a few discussion comments until this VE mess is sorted out. I enabled it to do some test edits and commented to the WMF along with others that it wasn't ready. We were utterly ignored so I don't feel compelled to help the WMF clean up the mess that they created. Kumioko (talk) 01:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, IMHO, when people who don't normally cuss start cussing, I'd say that means it's time to sit up and pay attention because something is wrong when the nice people go radical! Montanabw(talk) 00:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- The edit comment for the previous post is obscene and should result in a routine one-week block, each and every time it happens. This is not that complicated. Unscintillating (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Then I am entirely glad that you don't make the rules, considering that is nowhere near a blockable offense. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:04, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Unscintillating, was that some sort of humour?!? I am not getting it, either way. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:22, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- I have little doubt that it was not a joke. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- I didn't think it was that complicated, in fact, hmmm, I even said, "This is not that complicated." This creates a communication problem when people decide that a communication channel is part of a game, such that everything said is open to interpretation as less than sincere. Unscintillating (talk) 04:02, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Except that's where you're wrong, Unscintillating, because CIVIL does not have a "no shit allowed" clause. So it would be complicated, as it would depend on community consensus as to what swearing/cussing, if any, should be blockable. Feel free to initiate such a discussion elsewhere, if you think toyful statements such as that are blockable offenses, and be prepared for a rush of opposition to your "uncomplicated" reading. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:35, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
- The edit comment for the previous post is obscene and should result in a routine one-week block, each and every time it happens. This is not that complicated. Unscintillating (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Which nice people did you have in mind? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Unscintillating, you have singularly failed to recognize that Montana's edit summary demonstrates the power of language as it epitomizes the "us/them" dichotomy within hegemonic discourse.
- Actually, IMHO, when people who don't normally cuss start cussing, I'd say that means it's time to sit up and pay attention because something is wrong when the nice people go radical! Montanabw(talk) 00:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- @Okeyes, yep I considered that...not long after the WMF did it. They don't seem to be particularly interested in the literally hundreds of comments from people saying that deploying VE with all these problems is just plum stupid. I have been here for years and I have seen a lot of software releases here and in my real life job. I cannot point to one (other than maybe the release of timeline on Facebook) that was more universally hated than this release of VE. If you folks are trying to get people to like and use VE, then you are currently your own worst enemy. As it is, I'm not even doing any edits other than a few discussion comments until this VE mess is sorted out. I enabled it to do some test edits and commented to the WMF along with others that it wasn't ready. We were utterly ignored so I don't feel compelled to help the WMF clean up the mess that they created. Kumioko (talk) 01:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Kumioko, have you considered the possibility that statements like "stop forcing shit...down our throats" is the sort of thing that contributes to the culture you're complaining about? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Some people might find this interesting. It's essential to follow the link back from the first word in the first post on the thread. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Not much to disagree with there. PumpkinSky talk 01:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- I just saw a myriad of posts so I thought I would join in and comment on a couple things. I think the current VisualEditor is garbage but it does have potential if the WMF would quite trying to shove it down our throats and make us live with a broken half assed and incomplete prototype. Flow on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. From what I know about it, it will only be on User talk pages and a couple others...maybe. So we will still need to know 2 different ways to post comments. Which is really really stupid and will not make things easier. Its also impossible to turn off, however it is possible to trick a couple ways if you don't want to use it. You could just create a subpage and redirect the talk page their and viola, the Flow has been blocked. You could also code a script to clone on of the talk pages that doesn't use flow and thereby bypass it that way. So to say that Flow cannot be turned off isn't entirely accurate. Its just a pain in the ass. With all that said, I do not think creating a bunch of pretty applications is going to fix our problem with a lack of editors. That is a cultural problem. Until we can make the culture more inviting by getting rid of the bad admins and editors, then people will continue to avoid the place. Oh and stop forcing shit like VE down our throats and breaking a bunch of stuff because the folks at WMF are too impatient to do proper testing of an application that everyone knows is broken. Kumioko (talk) 01:02, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- The first misunderstanding is easily explicable. Kudpung has many, many years of experience - decades of experience in fact! - as a teacher, lecturer and so forth. (I hope I'm not giving too much away here, I'm pretty sure he mentioned it on-wiki at some point. At least once.) So much experience, that large proportions of what he has learned may be wisdom from ages past. In some of those ages, long hair could be a sign of power or prestige - see Samson for example. I'm sure you'll agree, Oliver, that if the ability to "give the orders" (as Kudpung so nicely puts it) were decided in such old-fashioned ways, then Jorm would be way ahead of you. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Brandon is not "one of the top five or six in the entire hierarchy", he's a designer. He has *counts* 3 people between him and the ED, which is the same number of people as I do. We clearly have different recollections of Wikimania. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:55, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Well I have to agree with you there. Most of them, including the depity CEO know me well enough, and when I was in the US last year, I got the metaphorical feeling they were diving under the tables when they saw me entering the room ;) When some some of the lower paid staff were told I was around and would like to meet them, my friends were told to F*** off. Nice from an employee, what? (it's all documented here on Wikipedia). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- As for "obscene", well, this hearty English idiom: "fuck off" occurs well over 5,000 times in user talkpages alone. Lord knows how many shits are lurking out there.
- Which brings me nicely to Demiwit.. Gotta say, I was stunned when I discovered that the phrase: "Demiurge, you are a right cuntybaws" was absent from the search results, although I guess it won't be now! -- Hillbillyholiday talk 02:48, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker)-stalker: How dare you call me a "shit"!! AND I wasn't even lurking!! Curiously, your link leads us, via "Demiurge, you are a right cuneas" to this curious admission, on User talk:Sandstein's archive from two years ago: "Apologies - yes I am Cuneas (logged in now)." He's obviously a right cuneas. Shame. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- I have non idea what you are talking about.PumpkinSky talk 20:08, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Sincere apologies, PumpkinSky. (btw, I've always thought you are a very good editor). "Wenn die Menschen nie dumme Sachen, nichts intelligente jemals zu erledigen." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Meine Ohren brennen! —Cůntybaws (talk) 20:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- "There are remarks that sow and remarks that reap." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- @Martin...Danke sehr, ich versuche aber es ist frustrierendPumpkinSky talk 21:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Unscintillating's threat to block me is the second such I've received in a week, ever since I began to rant about the absurdity of the Eric Corbett block because he called someone an asshole. (OK, he called several people assholes, but due to accuracy, a 24 hour slap would have covered it). See my talk page for the other threat. I just passed my 50,000th edit on Wikipedia and have a 7 year history here with a crystal clear block record. Shall I now be blocked for use of the word "asshole" here too? I DARE anyone to block me, I seriously dare them! If people like me get threatened over something this petty, then WP is in more serious trouble than anyone realizes. User:Jack Merridew is proving a prophet in his use of Lord of the Flies imagery. Montanabw(talk) 21:45, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- "Don't You Want Me, Monty"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- "There are remarks that sow and remarks that reap." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Meine Ohren brennen! —Cůntybaws (talk) 20:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Sincere apologies, PumpkinSky. (btw, I've always thought you are a very good editor). "Wenn die Menschen nie dumme Sachen, nichts intelligente jemals zu erledigen." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- I have non idea what you are talking about.PumpkinSky talk 20:08, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker)-stalker: How dare you call me a "shit"!! AND I wasn't even lurking!! Curiously, your link leads us, via "Demiurge, you are a right cuneas" to this curious admission, on User talk:Sandstein's archive from two years ago: "Apologies - yes I am Cuneas (logged in now)." He's obviously a right cuneas. Shame. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
You've got mail!
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/40px-Mail-message-new.svg.png)
Message added 03:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Dusti*poke* 03:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Note to self
- Wikipedia:Rfc#Request_comment_on_articles.2C_policies.2C_or_other_non-user_issues PumpkinSky talk 13:57, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
What a prime example of what we can do without
I'm not going to mention any names but the comments and actions from that admin are exactly the type of crap we could do without around here. Especially among the admin ranks. Shoving that statement back in your face knowing they won't do anything and showing that they are untouchable really pissed me off. I didn't think much of that admin already but that was downright dirty considering they knew as well as you did that action was inappropriate. Kumioko (talk) 20:05, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, and arbcom and the community are gutless to do anything about it. This year's AC is the worst ever. PumpkinSky talk 20:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- As it says on my userpage, I am open to recall. But before you jump on that, PumpkinSky you may want to note that Kumioko has a history of attacking the WikiProject that I founded. --Rschen7754 20:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- PumpkinSky, I think you're a good guy, and I even voted for you on your last RFA - and the funny thing is that I do think ArbCom should do more desysoppings. But your comments within the last hour just don't reflect the realities of fighting socks in 2013 and were a bit uninformed. --Rschen7754 20:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- The realities of sock fighting (a pointless endeavor to begin with) means you can rm complaints about yourself? If you can't see the COI in that, I don't know what else to say. Thanks for voting for me, but I won't be running again. The community has made it quite clear I'll always be a persona non grata. PumpkinSky talk 20:30, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- When they're posted by an obvious sock, yes - I've seen CUs even CU impersonation accounts. --Rschen7754 20:33, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- My my, how low can the standards fall. PumpkinSky talk 20:43, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- When they're posted by an obvious sock, yes - I've seen CUs even CU impersonation accounts. --Rschen7754 20:33, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- Yes Rschen that's true not that it has any bearing on this discussion whatsoever. But that is one of the many reasons I don't think you should be an admin and why I don't trust you. To clarify, I do have a history of that because that project has severe article ownership issues. Runs off editors who try to make edits to US roads articles that aren't members of that project and generally acts like A-Holes to anyone who isn't a member of that project. And no, I don't really care if you trust me or think I should have access to the admin tools. I definitely don't trust you enough to have access as a Beauracrat or checkuser either for what that's worth. Kumioko (talk) 20:17, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
- The realities of sock fighting (a pointless endeavor to begin with) means you can rm complaints about yourself? If you can't see the COI in that, I don't know what else to say. Thanks for voting for me, but I won't be running again. The community has made it quite clear I'll always be a persona non grata. PumpkinSky talk 20:30, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Talkback
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Message added 14:50, 8 July 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 14:50, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
There are a lot of issues with the list this week
It's taken me a long time to decide how to deal with it. Serendipodous 16:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
- If it was that important to you, why didn't you help? We (both of us) were going through a bit of a crisis over that list this week, and extra input would have been appreciated. Serendipodous 08:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- Because it's not something I ever worked before and I was worried because there are many areas on wiki where people get upset if you work on "their" stuff. PumpkinSky talk 09:54, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- If you'd just wandered in and made changes without discussion, then yeah I would have been pissed off, but offering help on the talk page, particularly given that I had outlined the issues at hand pretty clearly, would have been helpful. Serendipodous 10:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- I never saw the talk page. That's all news to me. PumpkinSky talk 11:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- If you'd just wandered in and made changes without discussion, then yeah I would have been pissed off, but offering help on the talk page, particularly given that I had outlined the issues at hand pretty clearly, would have been helpful. Serendipodous 10:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
- Because it's not something I ever worked before and I was worried because there are many areas on wiki where people get upset if you work on "their" stuff. PumpkinSky talk 09:54, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
The Signpost: 10 July 2013
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re: RFAR
thank you. — Ched : ? 21:09, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Tantrums
My response was quite serious, and other people's response to my comment was serious: losing your bit due to a hissy fit should require an RFA to get it back. I'm not saying TCO falls in that category, but all the admins that resigned because of Eric Corbett's block certainly do. Please stop closing the section.—Kww(talk) 19:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
- TCO is trolling and you're just feeding him. Start another thread. Stop opening my close. PumpkinSky talk 19:35, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
- KWW - while that's an interesting thought, I doubt you'd find much support for it in consensus. The "WHY" of admins. resigning their bits boils down to motive - and it's a very poor choice to attempt to assign such things to any editor. There is also absolutely nothing in any policy to support your view. "Your" "hissy fit" is another editor's "principle". Something you may want to take into consideration. — Ched : ? 20:07, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
- 12 days late and a dollar short: I didn't resign over Eric's block, which Kww could have known had he not already made up his mind. Note also that I didn't "lose" it, since "lose" suggests I wanted to keep it. Those are the kinds of erroneous statements one needs to make to build a case over hissy fits, or a case like the aborted one over Eric's unblock. Drmies (talk) 19:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Could you look over the article again? SL93 (talk) 04:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
- I've asked someone to. I don't do DYK anymore. PumpkinSky talk 10:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Infoboxes ArbCom case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 31, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, — ΛΧΣ21 17:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
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- EdwardsBot (talk) 19:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
A beer for you!
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You deserve a beer for introducing me to the harv-errors script - it is unbelievably useful and I would never have picked up any of the mistakes I have without it. If we ever meet you can hold me to this :) Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 22:24, 27 July 2013 (UTC) |
- Glad to help. PumpkinSky talk 23:12, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Bozeman Chronicle
So, I got a one-month e-subscription to the Bozeman Chronicle that expires August 24, 2013. I'm basically done using it for what I wanted, so if you or anyone else you know would like to use it to do research (it comes with access to all their archives) on Bozeman- or Gallatin Valley-related articles, lemme know. The clock is ticking! - Tim1965 (talk) 04:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- Anything of use in the Montana article? PumpkinSky talk 10:21, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Ran out of ponies
So instead, given Sergeant Reckless and the above beverages: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0_QSmxKJ8M Montanabw(talk) 06:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- HAHA. We knew you were a horseaholic, now, because you found this video, we know you're a alcoholic!! PumpkinSky talk 10:59, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- excellent work Sergeant Reckless!! Thank you so much!!Yen10k (talk) 21:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- thanks, and I'm not done! PumpkinSky talk 21:54, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- looking forward to seeing future edits by you!!Yen10k (talk) 21:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
DYK for Dale D. Myers
Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
Rocky Mountain Front issue
In the article on Montana, it says the Rocky Mountain Front is in northwest Montana. The issue I'm coming up with is that, if you do a Google books search on the term "Rocky Mountain Front" you come up with that name applying to any eastern part of the Rocky Mountains from the Rio Grande to the Canadian border (e.g., "Colorado Rocky Mountain front" or "New Mexico Rocky Mountain Front"). It would be appropriate to say "Montana's Rocky Mountain Front", as the best citation I found (which defines the Front by its geology and ecosystems) does that. The problem is that the Wikipedia article "Rocky Mountain Front" is poorly writen and cited, and talks only in terms of Montana and not other states. I don't want to appear sneaky and alter (slightly) the RMF article to meet the needs of the Montana article, but that's what needs to happen I think. (Wikipedia doesn't cite iteself, but in practice GA reviewers compare articles for internal consistency.) Thoughts? - Tim1965 (talk) 16:38, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- From where I sit (which both of you know, though I stay vague about it on-wiki), the "front" is from about Augusta or Choteau north into Canada. Basically where the mountains leading up to the divide start being a straight line of sorts as opposed to a jaggedly, ill-defined edge (like one sees by Bozeman or Whitehall, for example.) "Northwest" implies west of the divide altogether, as in the Kalispell area. So whatever you guys can find for a RS on that, now you have the reality for those of us who live here. Montanabw(talk) 19:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- While we unashamedly take every chance we can to plug Montana, the Rocky Mountain Front article is wrong. It's not just MT, but goes from Canada to Mexico. It's more complicated because the MT portion is on a diagonal, running from the south-central part to the north-west part of the state. I'd fix the MT article, then throw enough in the Front article to (sadly) fix it. PumpkinSky talk 21:27, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- I just went off my meds. Oh no, reality again! Back to the pills and Duck Dynasty reruns we go. - Tim1965 (talk) 16:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Hello
Hello friend. I want to show you this removed edit of mine and think you should add it to your complaint of Wilkins. Also note in the link I had given that the Admins didn't even put a fraction of thought into punishing him. Good luck, let's hope Wikipedia gets one less corrupt Admin. TheShadowCrow (talk) 00:24, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- You posted in the arb area, just post in a "statement" area. The "rot in hell" thread is already in my RFAR. PumpkinSky talk 00:28, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
DYK for Sergeant Reckless
The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Reckless - Fearless, go for GA! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- You might be able to push it to MilHist A-Class also. Intothatdarkness 19:27, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- Really? Let's look at that after GA. PumpkinSky talk 19:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Burnham FAC
Comments have been posted on the Burnham FAC. I'm working on the first bullet now. Ctatkinson (talk) 16:29, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- I've addressed all of the bullets, except for number 2: Significant WP:MOS cleanup needed in the article: hyphens/dashes, repeated links, etc. This comment is vague, so I'll need more time to see what I can do. If you have any thoughts on this, let me know. Thanks. Ctatkinson (talk) 19:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- I've made a number of edits that address the MOS. Hopefully someone will drop by the FAC this weekend and express support for the article. Ctatkinson (talk) 15:33, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
Please use permanent links at RFAR
Hi, PS. It's pointless to link dynamically to an ANI thread that has already been archived, or soon will be. You probably know this, but you don't seem to remember it all the time. Please use permanent section links, either by linking to an archive, or by using the "permanent link" tool in each page's toolbox. Example: this already-dead link that you used needs to be either this or this. Hope this helps. It took me quite a while to locate just those two; I worry the arbs won't go to the trouble, but simply disregard the dead links. P.S. Oh well, looking closer, they seem to be about to decline it anyway, as has become standard with requests against admins. :-( Bishonen | talk 20:42, 3 August 2013 (UTC).
- Yea, I know. Thanks. It was live at the time I first found it. Will update. Wish we could get some arbs that would do what's needed doing. PumpkinSky talk 20:44, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
- PumpkinSky, I probably can't change your mind, but if you do decide to attempt DR, you can know that I will not be circling any wagons in an "admin defend admin" way. (I do tend to favour leniency in cases of apologetic admins who admit they've messed up, but that is not at all what I'm seeing here.) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 12:38, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I see no reason to waste more of my time. Someone else can file it. Wiki, including AC, have truly become completely dysfunctional. PumpkinSky talk 12:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
- No dispute from me on that one. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 13:15, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I see no reason to waste more of my time. Someone else can file it. Wiki, including AC, have truly become completely dysfunctional. PumpkinSky talk 12:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
- PumpkinSky, I probably can't change your mind, but if you do decide to attempt DR, you can know that I will not be circling any wagons in an "admin defend admin" way. (I do tend to favour leniency in cases of apologetic admins who admit they've messed up, but that is not at all what I'm seeing here.) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 12:38, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Arbcom: So-called “Failure to participate by Kleinzach and Nikkimaria”
I see you wrote this. [2]
Please note that I have been away from WP since 16 July (see [[3]]). I have been doing fieldwork in a remote area of Japan. I have not been failing to participate from anything. If you had checked my contributions you would have realised this.
Can you please correct your assertion as soon as possible? You might also consider apologising. Thank you. --Kleinzach 01:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- Not editing doesn't mean you're not able to edit. But I do apologize. You may want to put an "on travel" notice on your page next time. I'll just remove it as I'm sick of the total dysfunction on wiki.PumpkinSky talk 01:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Requesting your opinion on a photo
Hi. We really need your opinion on which of these photos would make the best Infobox portrait for the Rick Remender article. Could you please offer your opinion in that discussion? The most recent subsection of that discussion is here, so you can just chime in there if you don't want to read the whole thread. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 17:10, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Just curious. What made you think of me in regards to this? PumpkinSky talk 20:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Request for Arbitration declined
This is a courtesy notice that a request for arbitration, which named you as a party, has been declined. Feel free to see the Arbitrators' opinions for potential suggestions on moving forward.
For the Arbitration Committee, --Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 20:17, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Once again AC proves it's lost its compass. PumpkinSky talk 22:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Why not try an RfC and see what happens? Cla68 (talk) 23:35, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- And waste more of my time for a meaningless result? Get real. See "Please use permanent links at RFAR" thread above.PumpkinSky talk 23:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- I co-sponsored an RfC with two other editors on an admin about five years ago and it did work to correct the behavior in question. Cla68 (talk) 00:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- Wiki of 5 years ago is not the wiki of today. Today is total dysfunction. PumpkinSky talk 00:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- I co-sponsored an RfC with two other editors on an admin about five years ago and it did work to correct the behavior in question. Cla68 (talk) 00:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- And waste more of my time for a meaningless result? Get real. See "Please use permanent links at RFAR" thread above.PumpkinSky talk 23:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Why not try an RfC and see what happens? Cla68 (talk) 23:35, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Montana rivers, lakes and reservoirs
I'm almost done citing all the claims in the article on Montana that deals with "Rivers, lakes, and reservoirs". Is there anything to add there before I finish? (When I finish this section, the entire "Topography" section will now be fully cited as well. Then it's on to "Flora and Fauna"!) - Tim1965 (talk) 16:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
- Very nice. In Montana, "Lakes and reservoirs" has a ref in the middle but not end. The end should probably have one. When I'm done with my current wiki project, I can get back to the MT article.PumpkinSky talk 20:06, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Burnham FAC update
Nikkimaria continues to be the only one to comment on the Burnham FAC. I have speedily commented and addressed her concerns, but so far she has only toughened her resolve to oppose the article. I think most editors have stayed away from the comments since they don't want yet another fight. I completely agree that WP is not the enjoyable place it was several years ago. Once form replaced substance, it seems that a lot of good WP editors simply dropped out and there are a lot fewer of the people like you who still care enough to fight for the substance.
Let me know if you have any ideas on how to make headway through this FAC. Thanks. Ctatkinson (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
- While a few of her points are excessive, most are valid, like whether ages have hyphens after them. FAC is extremely nitpicky in all regards now, but she should not have opposed right off the bat. Lack of reviewers is a problem all over wiki: FAC, GAC, DYK, etc. Many things fail simply for lack of reviewers, not fair, just the way it is now with all the editors being driven off. I suggest you keep fixing her concerns and stay cool. It'll be that much less for others to gripe about. You may have to re list it again, if so, you can list me as a conom, like I was on the first time a few years ago. If this one fails, list it at PR before relisting at FAC. I was thrilled to see Patton listed at FAC but it, and many others, have few reviewers. Sad all around. PumpkinSky talk 18:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
- I can always count on you for excellent guidence. I'll keep plugging away at any further nitpicky issues that may come up. I somehow missed that Patton was also listed as FAC -- d'oh!. I'll see what I can do to be of help. Ctatkinson (talk) 19:30, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
- I agree. I all but dared Nikki to review my FAC for Oxbow (horse) when we were in the middle of a dispute over something else entirely. She picked it half to death, but her nitpicks were legitimate and after I fixed everything she threw at me, she ultimately supported. You can look at its FAC to compare, Ctatinson. If you'd like to drop me a line with a link to the article you have up at FAC, I'd be glad to pop over and take a look. Montanabw(talk) 20:24, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Mike Malone
A second new Montana article: Michael P. Malone! Ugh, for a guy as well-known as he was, there was precious little out there that wasn't hagiography. I've got a request in to MSU to see if they will release a photo of Malone under CC-BY-SA 3.0 to WikiCommons. - Tim1965 (talk) 16:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Very nice. What do you mean "second"? PumpkinSky talk 21:06, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Maybe the Geoff Gamble article? Intothatdarkness 21:18, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Ah. I've listed them at WP:Montana. MTBW or ITD....can you think of double DYK hook for them and nom them?PumpkinSky talk 21:45, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Maybe the Geoff Gamble article? Intothatdarkness 21:18, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Meh. Not a fan of Geoff Gamble. You're on your own with him, wouldn't want a double DYK with the two of them in the same sentence. Malone was the more respected one. Hagiography kind of deserved, though he got into some trouble in his lifetime for bluntness and telling it like it is. How about, DYK that...historian and former MSU President Michael P. Malone was one of the 100 most influential Montanans of the 20th century and wrote the "definitive history of the state" ? Montanabw(talk) 22:05, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well, you want a three-fer? I just got William Tietz up, too. - Tim1965 (talk) 01:03, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Lead paragraph for Burnham
Once of the comments from Montanabw on the Burnham FAC is that we expand the lead paragraph. I have to agree. He thinks we should try for three or four solid paragraphs. I've drafted a new lead in my sandbox and I'd like to get your comments as a co-author of the article. Since it's only in draft, I haven't done much of anything about references or wikilinks. Feel free to edit the text, move things around, add and delete, whatever you think is appropriate. Thanks for you help! Ctatkinson (talk) 01:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Very brave to take her back to FAC. Good luck. Eric Corbett 00:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you much, Eric. PumpkinSky talk 00:46, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm likely going to support this once I've a good look through, but
"She was ordered held 'to be brought to a future trial', but no record of another trial exists, so it is possible the charge was dismissed at some point"
isn't right. "Ordered held"? Thought I'd mention it here rather than clutter the review. Eric Corbett 14:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)- Your input and eventual support would be greatly appreciated and mean a lot to me. We'll take care of that issue you mention. PumpkinSky talk 14:40, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- I no longer touch FAC which IMO has become a discredited process based on who can bully opposers the loudest* so won't comment at the review, but a quick comment—the lead says Sherwood was "the only person convicted of witchcraft in Virginia", but a little way into the article it talks about someone else being "sentenced to 10 stripes and banishment from the county" for witchcraft. They can't both be true. – iridescent 15:11, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- *Unless you really think that the recently-promoted Jesus is "engaging, even brilliant", "neglects no major facts or details" and includes "a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature".
- Perhaps "last person known to be convicted …"?--Wehwalt (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Eric, google "ordered held", it's fairly common in American English to mean that a judge has ordered that someone be incarcerated (usually in the pretrial sense).--Wehwalt (talk) 15:30, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps "last person known to be convicted …"?--Wehwalt (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Your input and eventual support would be greatly appreciated and mean a lot to me. We'll take care of that issue you mention. PumpkinSky talk 14:40, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm likely going to support this once I've a good look through, but
- Gentlemen, tone down the testosterone all around, please, everyone. Sometimes for something to be changed, it is helpful to have a logical explanation given. Sometimes a compromise is useful. Now, next time you have one of these spats, please ask Montanabw to be mama bear and settle this by knocking all your heads together. (Sheesh, boys...) Montanabw(talk) 18:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- changed to "ordered to be detained" to be precise. Is that acceptable? PumpkinSky talk 19:08, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- and "last person known to be convicted". Is that acceptable? PumpkinSky talk 19:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- so she was commanded by the court to be detained? — Ched : ? 20:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC) (btw - I commend you for having the courage and fortitude to return to your waterloo and attempt to put things right. A true sign of maturity - I am impressed.) — Ched : ? 20:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks Ched. PumpkinSky talk 14:21, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
IMPORTANT
Due to an unforeseen family emergency PumpkinSky will be offline for the foreseeable future. He extends his best wishes to all, as I'm sure we all extend our best wishes and prayers to them. — Ched : ? 21:18, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thinking of you with wishes and prayers, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:30, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- My best wishes to you and your family. I hope everything will be ok. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 21:45, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- I hope that everything will be okay, too. Thanks for keeping us informed, Ched. Acalamari (from Bellatrix Kerrigan) 23:01, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thinking of you and your family. Hope everything's okay. Keilana|Parlez ici 23:23, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
- Prayers for you and your family, hope everything will be OK. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Best wishes, PSKY. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Many thanks to all for the concern. I truly appreciate it. Look at this photo File:Fried_Laptop.jpeg of my wife's laptop, consider that I was given oxygen by the firemen, no one else was home, and damage to the table the laptop was on, and you get the idea. And get this, we were going to retire that laptop today and I'd copied her data from it to the new one 30 minutes before the fire. This is what happens when Wiki debates get too heated! hahah. Puts it all in perspective. Family is the most important thing. Wiki debates are just power struggles. For just within the wiki world, content is what is important. PumpkinSky talk 13:23, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Whoa, glad you are OK and the only injury was to the kitchen table. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- And the laptop;-) It's literally toast. I guess it knew we were retiring it and it wasn't doing down without a fight. PumpkinSky talk 14:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- I think that laptop was homicidal...or something. I can see it now: "Homicidal laptop tries to take out it's owner to prevent an early retirement, tonight at 11". It would sound better if Don LaFontaine were still around to say it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- HOLY SHIT. Yeah, glad you're okay. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:30, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm happy to hear that you are ok and everyone is well. Take care. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 16:22, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- And the laptop;-) It's literally toast. I guess it knew we were retiring it and it wasn't doing down without a fight. PumpkinSky talk 14:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Whoa, glad you are OK and the only injury was to the kitchen table. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Many thanks to all for the concern. I truly appreciate it. Look at this photo File:Fried_Laptop.jpeg of my wife's laptop, consider that I was given oxygen by the firemen, no one else was home, and damage to the table the laptop was on, and you get the idea. And get this, we were going to retire that laptop today and I'd copied her data from it to the new one 30 minutes before the fire. This is what happens when Wiki debates get too heated! hahah. Puts it all in perspective. Family is the most important thing. Wiki debates are just power struggles. For just within the wiki world, content is what is important. PumpkinSky talk 13:23, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- {{Welcome Back}}? Glad all is well buddy. — Ched : ? 17:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
- Re: "Homicidal laptop": It may yet be a sign of AI. "Planet of the laptops" may be next. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 00:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Stephen King should write a book about it, which should be made into a movie. PumpkinSky talk 00:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, he specialises in this type of stories featuring technology gone bad. Too bad we don't have his cachet to write our own. That's life I guess. :) Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 01:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- A book, then a hit TV show, then a movie. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'd have pegged Michael Crichton for it, actually. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- A book, then a hit TV show, then a movie. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, he specialises in this type of stories featuring technology gone bad. Too bad we don't have his cachet to write our own. That's life I guess. :) Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 01:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Stephen King should write a book about it, which should be made into a movie. PumpkinSky talk 00:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Re: "Homicidal laptop": It may yet be a sign of AI. "Planet of the laptops" may be next. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 00:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks, Baked PumpkinSky for trialling the very latest Wikipedia:VisualEditor hidden feature! Seems it works (- I was only trying to send you "edit thank", honest.) But very glad you are OK. Handy hint for next time: [4] Martinevans123 (talk) 16:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
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The Fried Laptop Barnstar | |
In honor of working so hard on Wikipedia and its projects that your laptop catches fire, putting your life at risk and threatening to burn down your home. - Tim1965 (talk) 23:18, 19 August 2013 (UTC) |
- Thanks, that's hilarious!!!! PumpkinSky talk 23:26, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- I just can't believe what happened to you. And smoke inhalation is not fun! This could have been so horrible, and yet everything seems to have turned out OK. Wow! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well, I didn't have to go to the hospital and the table has some permanent damage, but yea, it could have been way worse. I keep wondering, "What if no one had been home when this happened?" PumpkinSky talk 01:34, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I had a similar problem, although nothing like as bad, when I was using my lap top a few weeks ago; the top became so hot I couldn't touch it and I had to whip the battery out. I wonder how common this battery fault is? Eric Corbett 01:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I can't give a percentage but it's certainly not an unheard of problem with lithium-ion batteries. See Boeing 787 Dreamliner battery problems. If your laptop gets that hot often, I suggest getting a new laptop. Also, don't leave the laptop running when not in use. Turn it off or at least put it in sleep mode. PumpkinSky talk 01:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I've dumped the battery, only use it on mains now. Eric Corbett 02:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Only problem with that is if the power goes out all your work gets zapped. Not to mention it's not good for the hardware to turn off abruptly. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:40, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I live in the UK, we don't have sudden power outages here. Eric Corbett 02:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Only problem with that is if the power goes out all your work gets zapped. Not to mention it's not good for the hardware to turn off abruptly. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:40, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I've dumped the battery, only use it on mains now. Eric Corbett 02:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I can't give a percentage but it's certainly not an unheard of problem with lithium-ion batteries. See Boeing 787 Dreamliner battery problems. If your laptop gets that hot often, I suggest getting a new laptop. Also, don't leave the laptop running when not in use. Turn it off or at least put it in sleep mode. PumpkinSky talk 01:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I had a similar problem, although nothing like as bad, when I was using my lap top a few weeks ago; the top became so hot I couldn't touch it and I had to whip the battery out. I wonder how common this battery fault is? Eric Corbett 01:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well, I didn't have to go to the hospital and the table has some permanent damage, but yea, it could have been way worse. I keep wondering, "What if no one had been home when this happened?" PumpkinSky talk 01:34, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- I just can't believe what happened to you. And smoke inhalation is not fun! This could have been so horrible, and yet everything seems to have turned out OK. Wow! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's hilarious!!!! PumpkinSky talk 23:26, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
America has its third world elements, we don't like none of them guvmint reggulashins...! Glad you are OK Psky! And what a barnstar! Montanabw(talk) 15:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Lol. Third-world made in the USA. Mighty strange combination but perhaps a sign of (the times) deregulation. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 16:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Just spend almost a week in Canada. I'm getting more convinced that the USA needs to get with the rest of the world. I mean, we don't even do a good job of recycling plastic bottles!. Montanabw(talk) 19:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, Canada is an interesting example of unexpectedly different historical evolution to that of the US. But as far as laptop safety, I don't think Canada's electrical power network is any more reliable than that of the US during inclement weather. The North American weather is quite active, not to mention your friendly neighbourhood snowstorms which could easily zap your local Hydro and with that your laptop, if not on backup battery power. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 22:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Just spend almost a week in Canada. I'm getting more convinced that the USA needs to get with the rest of the world. I mean, we don't even do a good job of recycling plastic bottles!. Montanabw(talk) 19:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Just heard about this. Good to hear that the damage was thankfully less bad than it could have been and that everybody is okay. Hope the cleanup isn't taking too much out of you (and your pockets!). AGK [•] 15:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Girl scouts FAR
I have nominated Girl Scouts of the USA for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. DrKiernan (talk) 16:08, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for letting me know. I may or may not get to it. PumpkinSky talk 18:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
WP:FOUR RFC
There are two WP:RFCs at WP:FOUR. The first is to conflate issues so as to keep people from expressing meaningful opinions. The second, by me, is claimed to be less than neutral by proponents of the first. Please look at the second one, which I think is much better.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Sergeant Reckless
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Sergeant Reckless you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by GA bot, on behalf of Dana boomer -- Dana boomer (talk) 21:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Continuing discussion elsewhere
I'd prefer to drop the matter (as I said earlier), but if you want to continue the discussion (about my actions) you are welcome to do so at my talk page. I can then reply there (when I get time). Carcharoth (talk) 23:53, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sure you'd like to drop it. I've made my point, so ok. PumpkinSky talk 23:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
Confused
- "The crux here was all the mess from last year. It used to be possible to at least sometimes effect meaningful change and now you can't get squat done. Then there's the whole Raul FA Fiefdom mess..."
I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you shorthand it for me? Thanks, PumpkinSky. You can post on my Talk Page if you'd like. Liz Read! Talk! 00:02, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Wiki has been highly dysfunctional and incapable of meaningful change since about 2007. Last year there was a mess with arbcom. I can't remember it all but it involved a leaked email. That's when AC really nosedived downhill. User:Raul654 (just "raul" usually) called himself the FA Director. He held the job for about 10 years. More accurately he was the FA Dictator. His word was law and you didn't question him. Even more appalling is that many people still kiss his pants cuffs. He did very little since Spring or so 2012 and hasn't made a single edit since Feb 2013 and many people still can't let go of him. For just a a tiny taste see at least three threads currently at WT:FAC and Wikipedia:AN#Two_connected_ones_at_Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_candidates. Sickening. PumpkinSky talk 00:30, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- That is so odd, I sent several messages to different editors because Raul654 was listed as the Director of a project I was curious about (I guess it was FAs but I thought it was more than one project) and, as you say, he hadn't edited since Feb. 2013. I didn't get any replies to my messages to the other people on the team. I had no idea of the backstory. Thanks for filling me in. Liz Read! Talk! 00:42, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- I totally agree with something User:Ched recently said, posted with his permission: "Jimbo abandoned all concept of being in touch with the project - just collects his checks for speaking. No leadership left at all. So the arbs basically quit trying to "arbitrate" and began playing "crat" ... meaning that they try to gauge consensus and pick the side they think will give them the most support in the next election. If an admin. is a "super-user" .. then an arb is a "super-DUPER-user". I think the final breaking point here as far as leadership happened last fall. Shortly before the 2012 election debacle there was a massive "arbcom email leak". Then, prior to the elections Jclemens posted in the arb mailing list about Malleus and his belief that he (MF) should be banned for civility issues. (and I will note that Jclemens would likely have supported desysop of Doc James, Bwilkins, and perhaps even Nikki; ... he was big on "admins having to adhere to a higher standard"). After Jclemens posted his "personal" thoughts in the "official" arb mailing list .. Elen of the Roads took it public. Many (of the arbs) thought it was a breech of trust and privacy to air what's said in the "list" ... NEITHER of them was re-elected ... Much like the watergate era (USA politics), all trust was lost in the body of arbcom. So NOWWWWW ... it's just a matter of maintaining the position of faux-power. I do think there are a few arbs that do the best they can (Worm, NYB, Carcharoth) - but the committee has gotten so large and diverse that there is no trust amongst themselves, and no unity in how to treat requests. Arbcom has become the next ANI .. first come - first serve. Nobody is gonna rock the boat .. and the more dysfunctional they become, the more people voice that concern. And it becomes a CYA issue and protect thine own self." PumpkinSky talk 00:46, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- That is so odd, I sent several messages to different editors because Raul654 was listed as the Director of a project I was curious about (I guess it was FAs but I thought it was more than one project) and, as you say, he hadn't edited since Feb. 2013. I didn't get any replies to my messages to the other people on the team. I had no idea of the backstory. Thanks for filling me in. Liz Read! Talk! 00:42, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- The only question I have about this (other than the details that are buried in archives somewhere) is that it doesn't sound like being an Arbitrator is very rewarding. They get a lot of abuse from editors and not a whole lot of respect especially considering the amount of work involved. They might be "super-DUPER-users" but I don't know why anyone would plot and scheme to hold on to a job where they are continually criticized.
- As an outsider, I really wonder how many editors follow the politics of the Wikipedia hierarchy and even bothered to vote in elections. I'm not saying that the subject isn't important for the future of Wikipedia, just that the people who are aware of all of this drama probably are in the low thousands. They are clearly the editors and Admins who are most invested in WP but I doubt the average editor even knows that ARBCOM exists.
- But I am grateful for you taking the time and space to explain the situation to me. Now that I'm one of those editors who actively watches the noticeboards, it's interesting to hear how things have have changed over time. Liz Read! Talk! 01:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- I used to be an arb. I'm one of the few, maybe only, who have seen wiki personally at both ends. Ched has a great post on that somewhere. PumpkinSky talk 01:21, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- But I am grateful for you taking the time and space to explain the situation to me. Now that I'm one of those editors who actively watches the noticeboards, it's interesting to hear how things have have changed over time. Liz Read! Talk! 01:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Most editors don't follow the politics, which is what the various power blocs count on. I've always made it a practice to take the measure of the governance of any online activity I get involved with, so I've hovered around the fringes of things watching how it works. Wikipedia has a concentration of people (the shadow bureaucracies) who think they OWN policy and will stubbornly resist any attempt to change it (unless they happen to be the ones bringing forward the change...I could point you to one Admin who was until recently strongly opposed to reforming parts of it until that particular Admin came up with a 'new' idea). Jimbo's "leadership" also created a mentality where conformity and cheerleading those in power was strongly encouraged. If wiki's turned into anything it's a closed society with enemies of the state and its own versions of the little red (or green) book. Intothatdarkness 13:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well said and spot on. PumpkinSky talk 20:17, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Most editors don't follow the politics, which is what the various power blocs count on. I've always made it a practice to take the measure of the governance of any online activity I get involved with, so I've hovered around the fringes of things watching how it works. Wikipedia has a concentration of people (the shadow bureaucracies) who think they OWN policy and will stubbornly resist any attempt to change it (unless they happen to be the ones bringing forward the change...I could point you to one Admin who was until recently strongly opposed to reforming parts of it until that particular Admin came up with a 'new' idea). Jimbo's "leadership" also created a mentality where conformity and cheerleading those in power was strongly encouraged. If wiki's turned into anything it's a closed society with enemies of the state and its own versions of the little red (or green) book. Intothatdarkness 13:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- On my talk page I have a little quote box (from another user's words of wisdom) that says: "[The] readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest." There are a lot of "drahmahz" scooting around on WP, many of them really quite lame (or WP:LAME). And with everything in print form, nothing is forgotten and the collective memory of things that are inaccurate is disturbingly long... we are a dysfunctional anarchy here. Montanabw(talk) 21:41, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well said. PumpkinSky talk 21:59, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- On my talk page I have a little quote box (from another user's words of wisdom) that says: "[The] readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest." There are a lot of "drahmahz" scooting around on WP, many of them really quite lame (or WP:LAME). And with everything in print form, nothing is forgotten and the collective memory of things that are inaccurate is disturbingly long... we are a dysfunctional anarchy here. Montanabw(talk) 21:41, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Well, as a former casual editor who has spent the last month immersing herself in all things Wikipedia, there is definitely a lot that is left out of the article on the history of Wikipedia. A few things that seem apparent to a newcomer:
- There is actually a relatively small group of individuals (maybe 3,000-5,000?) who care about WP politics and follow the twists & turns and changing fortunes of different Editors, Admins and Policies.
- The vast majority of editors are casual, fixing typos or working on one niche topic area, keeping to themselves and couldn't tell you what ARBCOM or AN/I are.
- But the people who do care about WP as an organization, care a lot and have long memories.
- And there are a certain number of people who intensely dislike WP (either they became disillusioned or because of bad personal experience) but who, nevertheless, still frequent the site and weigh in on issues that particularly bother them or involve individuals they like or dislike.
- The learning curve at WP is sharp and newbies have to quickly grasp quite a large number of policies and practices if they want to do more than correct typos or add a reference.
- Some Admins have a low tolerance for bumbling newbies and I've seen new Editors who were "disruptive" get an indefinite ban without even an official warning when all they were really guilty of is not becoming competent quickly enough.
Sorry for the monologue. Just a few observations from a recent outsider. Liz Read! Talk! 22:24, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- That's pretty accurate too. PumpkinSky talk 22:41, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, well, everything I wrote is probably all very obvious to the long-timers. But for people who look at Wikipedia as an online reference tool (which is almost everyone), I'm sure the intensity of the politics and drama here is a surprise. Liz Read! Talk! 00:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I also agree that's pretty accurate except maybe point one. I think its only a couple hundred who are interested in the politics of the site not 3-5000. I also think there are a lot that pretend to be and don't really care about the project, just the perception of power they have and how it makes the feel important. Kumioko (talk) 01:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yea, the people who make wiki go around is probably no more than 400-500 users. PumpkinSky talk 01:34, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'd put it a little higher than that, maybe two or three times that number, but a lot less than the headline numbers would suggest. Eric Corbett 02:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well there are only about 1400 admins, most of which stay far away from the drama boards and a fair number of us lowly non admins that meddle in them but I don't care about WikiPolitics. I just don't trust some of the others and feel I need to keep on top of things so they won't do something self serving and not in the interest of the project. Not that they listen to me mind you, but at least I feel like I tried. Kumioko (talk) 02:26, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'd put it a little higher than that, maybe two or three times that number, but a lot less than the headline numbers would suggest. Eric Corbett 02:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yea, the people who make wiki go around is probably no more than 400-500 users. PumpkinSky talk 01:34, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I also agree that's pretty accurate except maybe point one. I think its only a couple hundred who are interested in the politics of the site not 3-5000. I also think there are a lot that pretend to be and don't really care about the project, just the perception of power they have and how it makes the feel important. Kumioko (talk) 01:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, well, everything I wrote is probably all very obvious to the long-timers. But for people who look at Wikipedia as an online reference tool (which is almost everyone), I'm sure the intensity of the politics and drama here is a surprise. Liz Read! Talk! 00:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- That's pretty accurate too. PumpkinSky talk 22:41, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- That's why I stick to the edges. Work on an article here or there, and that's about it. I had hoped to get more involved, but what I've seen and learned has convinced me that it's not worth it. Intothatdarkness 18:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I never was good at ignoring problems but at the same time a lot of the drama exists for no good reason. Just some people want to make every thing more complicted than it needs to be. Unfortunately we need admins and editors who are willing to roll their sleeves up and get their hands dirty but if you do that as an editor you'll piss off too many people to get the tools and the vaste majority of paople being promoted to admins the last couple years are ultra conservative and won't get involved in the turbulant areas. Kumioko (talk) 18:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well, if you spend just a week or two checking out AN/I, you'll see a small group of users who are bringing charges or being accused of charges, the same dozen names, repeatedly. So some editors file a AN/I at the slightest disagreement, then there are counterclaims, that's where most of the drama comes from. If you try to post a comment you'll find that it's really just two people arguing with each other in public over problems that usually seem resolvable to me if people just weren't so inflexible and didn't hold grudges. Liz Read! Talk! 20:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- That's why I stick to the edges. Work on an article here or there, and that's about it. I had hoped to get more involved, but what I've seen and learned has convinced me that it's not worth it. Intothatdarkness 18:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
There might be 1400 Admins but there is a page on WP somewhere that says how many are "active" (some editing activity over the past 3 months) and I think the number of active Admins is around 680. I'll try to find the page. I remember being surprised and thinking, "That's not enough Admins!" But the RfA process is so intrusive, I'm not sure how many people want to go through it and would pass. Liz Read! Talk! 19:53, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, that was easy. It's Wikipedia:List of administrators and there 789 inactive Admins, 649 active Admins for a total of 1,438 total Admins (as of 8/28/13). Activity is defined as 30 or more edits during the last two months. Liz Read! Talk! 19:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)The process has grown intrusive for a number of reasons. Some of them revolve around old grudges and personal animosities, but I think a larger factor (for those of us who hang at the edges, at least) is the simple fact that Adminship is "for life" for all practical purposes. There is no simple way to de-op someone, and that's enough to make many cautious about who they vote for. If I had more confidence in Wikipedia's ability to remove people who prove ill-suited for adminship, I'd vote yes more frequently. Sadly, everything I've seen leaves me with almost no confidence in the "system's" ability to correct or remove those who are ill-suited for a position of authority. Intothatdarkness 19:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, here's another interesting stat: Looking at the List of Admins there are only 4 who have accounts that were created after 2010. So, most Admins have been around WP a while. Liz Read! Talk! 20:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Really, Intothat? Admins are automatically desyop if they are inactive for a year. And it seems like every time I read an ARBCOM ruling, some Admin is getting their tools taken away. It might take quite a while for bad conduct to lead to a desyop but it happens. Liz Read! Talk! 20:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, really. Inactive desysop doesn't really count for this sort of thing. If you look back at the history of some of the admins who've lost the tools lately, they've often had issues ongoing for years. That's a system that can easily be viewed as unresponsive, especially when one considers that the body charged with removing the bit is composed totally of admins. I'm sure others here can speak more to abusive Admins than I, but a system that's seen as unresponsive (at best) or hostile (which happens) to cases of admin abuse or misconduct will normally lead to the sort of thing you see at RfA. I'm not suggesting that personal animosity plays no role there, but that's often held up as the ONLY reason RfA can be trying. That's too simple a view. Intothatdarkness 20:12, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)The 4 number is off. There were actually about 50 promoted between 2012 and this month. 52 in 2011. Number are according to Wikipedia:Successful requests for adminship. Also you are both partly correct. They do remove the tools from inactive admins but aside from that and voluntarily giving them up the admin virtually has to murder someone to have the tools removed. Only 3 or 4 in the last year and there were a lot more that should have the tools removed. Your right though Liz it does happen, but its so hard that massive damage occurs before it happens. Kumioko (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Well, Intothat, do you think many people would vote for a nonAdmin for ARBCOM? I looked at the last election and the vote totals were pretty modest. Maybe there is a bias to have Admins on ARBCOM. Maybe some regular editors should run in December. ;-)
- Kumioko, my numbers (aside from Active/Inactive Admins numbers) were just guesstimates and I've only been interested in learning about WP's moving parts since July. So, I'm still an outsider. I defer to more experienced editors for a more accurate estimate. Liz Read! Talk! 20:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- The question is more will admins vote for non-admins on ArbCom. Admins by nature tend to be more involved on the political side. Intothatdarkness 20:25, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- No problem your doing fine. Just thought you would be interested to know. There is no requirement for Arbcom to be all admins and in fact one editor was voted in before they became an admin (Bahamut) but I think he is the only one. The problem is the Arbcom members have access to some tools that require you to be an admin to get, even then in addition you have to give your reql identify and verification to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF). So many do not want to do it and those that would, probably wouldn't get voted in. Plus its not a fun job and the Arbcom has lost their way anyway. These days the Arbcom pretty much like a cross between the 2 old guys from the Muppets and the Queen of England. Lots of show and talk, very little action. Kumioko (talk) 20:30, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, Kumioko. As I said here (or on another Talk Page), being an Arbitrator appears to be a thankless job. The most complimentary comment I've read about an Arbitrator is "he isn't that bad". That was the highest praise, it's mainly a stream of criticism about individuals and the group as a whole. Who'd want to put up with that? Liz Read! Talk! 20:51, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I should also probably calrify that I have met several of them and I think very highly of most of them as editors and as individuals. But I think the Arbcom process is failing along with the RFA and several others. Kumioko (talk) 20:53, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- As for lots of show and talk, very little action, looking at ARBCOM decisions from recent years, they are criticized for being too lenient and they are criticized for being too tough. There'd be no seat for Goldilocks on ARBCOM because it's never "just right". Liz Read! Talk! 20:55, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- I think there is some truth to that but here is something else to consider. Once the Arbcom accepts a user case, that user may as well stop editing and walk away because they won't accept a case unless they feel the user is guilty. So then they just waste 2 months of debate to ban them. Another point is the Arbitration enforcement board that's largely run by one editor who is allowed unlimited discretion and power over it. Any questions are squashed or ignored. Then you have the cases (which are the majority) where it seems that Arbcom makes a decision in such away that it makes it look like they are trying to make the point that if cases are brought to them they are going to rule in such a way that neither side wins. (ie. Your all topic banned and no one can edit the article). These are just examples but the process is really....well...arbitrary. Whether we call them to lenient or too harsh is irrelevant if the process is fair and it works, which it isn't and doesn't. Many of the decisions aren't even from policy its just their opinions or interpretations of policies that frequently don't even apply. Kumioko (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
"Once the Arbcom accepts a user case, that user may as well stop editing and walk away because they won't accept a case unless they feel the user is guilty."
Quite, to which I'd add that the usual "you may appeal this ban after one year" is outrageously misleading given that appeals are routinely turned down. Eric Corbett 02:16, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
- I think there is some truth to that but here is something else to consider. Once the Arbcom accepts a user case, that user may as well stop editing and walk away because they won't accept a case unless they feel the user is guilty. So then they just waste 2 months of debate to ban them. Another point is the Arbitration enforcement board that's largely run by one editor who is allowed unlimited discretion and power over it. Any questions are squashed or ignored. Then you have the cases (which are the majority) where it seems that Arbcom makes a decision in such away that it makes it look like they are trying to make the point that if cases are brought to them they are going to rule in such a way that neither side wins. (ie. Your all topic banned and no one can edit the article). These are just examples but the process is really....well...arbitrary. Whether we call them to lenient or too harsh is irrelevant if the process is fair and it works, which it isn't and doesn't. Many of the decisions aren't even from policy its just their opinions or interpretations of policies that frequently don't even apply. Kumioko (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, Kumioko. As I said here (or on another Talk Page), being an Arbitrator appears to be a thankless job. The most complimentary comment I've read about an Arbitrator is "he isn't that bad". That was the highest praise, it's mainly a stream of criticism about individuals and the group as a whole. Who'd want to put up with that? Liz Read! Talk! 20:51, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- No problem your doing fine. Just thought you would be interested to know. There is no requirement for Arbcom to be all admins and in fact one editor was voted in before they became an admin (Bahamut) but I think he is the only one. The problem is the Arbcom members have access to some tools that require you to be an admin to get, even then in addition you have to give your reql identify and verification to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF). So many do not want to do it and those that would, probably wouldn't get voted in. Plus its not a fun job and the Arbcom has lost their way anyway. These days the Arbcom pretty much like a cross between the 2 old guys from the Muppets and the Queen of England. Lots of show and talk, very little action. Kumioko (talk) 20:30, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- The question is more will admins vote for non-admins on ArbCom. Admins by nature tend to be more involved on the political side. Intothatdarkness 20:25, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)The 4 number is off. There were actually about 50 promoted between 2012 and this month. 52 in 2011. Number are according to Wikipedia:Successful requests for adminship. Also you are both partly correct. They do remove the tools from inactive admins but aside from that and voluntarily giving them up the admin virtually has to murder someone to have the tools removed. Only 3 or 4 in the last year and there were a lot more that should have the tools removed. Your right though Liz it does happen, but its so hard that massive damage occurs before it happens. Kumioko (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, really. Inactive desysop doesn't really count for this sort of thing. If you look back at the history of some of the admins who've lost the tools lately, they've often had issues ongoing for years. That's a system that can easily be viewed as unresponsive, especially when one considers that the body charged with removing the bit is composed totally of admins. I'm sure others here can speak more to abusive Admins than I, but a system that's seen as unresponsive (at best) or hostile (which happens) to cases of admin abuse or misconduct will normally lead to the sort of thing you see at RfA. I'm not suggesting that personal animosity plays no role there, but that's often held up as the ONLY reason RfA can be trying. That's too simple a view. Intothatdarkness 20:12, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Really, Intothat? Admins are automatically desyop if they are inactive for a year. And it seems like every time I read an ARBCOM ruling, some Admin is getting their tools taken away. It might take quite a while for bad conduct to lead to a desyop but it happens. Liz Read! Talk! 20:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, here's another interesting stat: Looking at the List of Admins there are only 4 who have accounts that were created after 2010. So, most Admins have been around WP a while. Liz Read! Talk! 20:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Million Award
![]() |
The Million Award | |
For your contributions to bring Harry S. Truman (estimated annual readership: 1,144,000) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:32, 28 August 2013 (UTC) |
The Million Award is a new initiative to recognize the editors of Wikipedia's most-read content; you can read more about the award and its possible tiers (Quarter Million Award, Half Million Award, and Million Award) at Wikipedia:Million Award. You're also welcome to display this userbox:
![]() | This editor won the Million Award for bringing Harry S. Truman to Featured Article status. |
If I've made any error in this listing, please don't hesitate to correct it; if for any reason you don't feel you deserve it, please don't hesitate to remove it; if you know of any other editor who merits one of these awards, please don't hesitate to give it; if you yourself deserve another award from any of the three tiers, please don't hesitate to take it! -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:32, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- Why thanks! Good idea too! PumpkinSky talk 09:51, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- Great award - and well deserved! Kafka had a million in two days, remember? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- Why thanks! Good idea too! PumpkinSky talk 09:51, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I've been slow in following up on this, but Gerda's quite right--even without the main page appearance, Kafka clocks in at a bit over a million. Which means I owe you a second one of these:
![]() |
The Million Award | |
For your contributions to bring Franz Kafka (estimated annual readership: 1,002,000) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:44, 31 August 2013 (UTC) |
![]() | This editor won the Million Award for bringing Franz Kafka to Featured Article status. |
Not many Wikipedians have two of these--well done! That's a heck of a lot of people your work is serving. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:44, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
- WOW, thanks! That's cool. Very nice of you. PumpkinSky talk 01:59, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Just a heads up, as I doubt you were following. The image passed FPC, so the page will show in TFP in... I'd say 18 months. Just in case the views at DYK weren't enough :D — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, congrats! That's cool. PumpkinSky talk 17:13, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
- Definitely hoping for some decent hits. We put quite a bit into that article indeed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:40, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Sergeant Reckless
The article Sergeant Reckless you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Sergeant Reckless for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by GA bot, on behalf of Dana boomer -- Dana boomer (talk) 21:47, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review and making her article better! PumpkinSky talk 21:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Joseph Smith FAC
Thank you for your comments and help at the Joseph Smith FAC page. I especially liked the cool script you showed us - I'll use that from now on in my Wikisurfing.
In regards to the Joseph Smith article, I've fixed what I can from your comments. (I put strikethroughs on your comments about issues that I considered completely resolved - I hope you don't mind.) Would you take a few minutes to reevaluate the article and weigh in again at the FAC again?
Thanks very much, Trevdna (talk) 22:39, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
TFA choices
I've finally answered your question, but as other people might be interested in the answer, I put the figures for March–May at the TFAR talk page. For those three months, it was roughly 50:50 between TFAR nominations and my "free picks". If time and / or my failing memory permits, I'll try to get/keep figures for the whole year. BencherliteTalk 23:18, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, cool. Thanks. PumpkinSky talk 23:26, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Hail and Farewell
Per the current ArbCom display, I shall be absent from the fray unless some degree of commonsense returns to this realm. Ave atque vale. Collect (talk) 12:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
- I'm really sorry to hear that. I do agree that the place is now a completely and totally dysfunctional anarchy. PumpkinSky talk 15:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
WOOF
WOOF WOOF — Puppy of Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF • 18:39, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks Puppy. wink wink. PumpkinSky talk 20:23, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
- and dance today to (Symphony No. 8 (Dvořák), see below) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Congrats!
May I be the first (of hopefully many) to congratulate you on bringing the Grace Sherwood article to Featured Article status. Great work! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
- Support! Great work on the infamous article. I remember well how I watched with horror after its first appearance in November 2010 how Wikipedia treats her editors (making me think of Witch trials in the early modern period). I take this as a welcome signal of hope for a change. You know ... that when rehearsing Dvořák's Eighth Symphony, conductor Rafael Kubelík said: "Gentlemen, in Bohemia the trumpets never call to battle – they always call to the dance!"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:52, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Like — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:05, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
- WOW. I just learned of this. YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm overwhelmed. I'm sure you all understand why. Thank you so much everyone. PumpkinSky talk 09:57, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
- Well done, I think this is an important milestone and a great achievement. Neutralhomer, I think it unlikely you are the first to give such congratulations, but that's increasingly in the past now! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:30, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
- Some people obviously find it easier to forgive than I do, which to be honest isn't difficult, as I never forgive. I bear no ill will towards Rlevse, but I do towards those who accused me of leading him into a trap by not checking the sources during my copyedit of the earlier article. Water under the bridge now for some, but not for me. Eric Corbett 19:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
- Many unfortunate and unwarranted claims were made beginning Oct 31, 2010. People accusing you of leading Rlevse into a trap is just one of the many ridiculous ones. Don't even get me started on the rest. I'm still suffering from the fallout of that sordid mess and always will as wiki never forgives and never forgets. Some users have moved on but "the community" as a whole won't. @Demi and Liz, thank you for your supportive comments. PumpkinSky talk 20:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
- That part needs some serious reform. It's one thing to dislike recidivism, it's another to never forgive and never offer redemption. As for me, I don't buy the crap that if you don't forget you haven't forgiven - I don't ever forget (much, anyway, age crap notwithstanding, and where the hell are my car keys, anyway?) but sometimes, when enough time has gone by and I've added more data to a situation, I occasionally forgive. Maybe. Wiki needs to do at least that well, and if they could choose to purge certain records from people's "file", it might not be a bad thing. Montanabw(talk) 21:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
- Many unfortunate and unwarranted claims were made beginning Oct 31, 2010. People accusing you of leading Rlevse into a trap is just one of the many ridiculous ones. Don't even get me started on the rest. I'm still suffering from the fallout of that sordid mess and always will as wiki never forgives and never forgets. Some users have moved on but "the community" as a whole won't. @Demi and Liz, thank you for your supportive comments. PumpkinSky talk 20:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
- Some people obviously find it easier to forgive than I do, which to be honest isn't difficult, as I never forgive. I bear no ill will towards Rlevse, but I do towards those who accused me of leading him into a trap by not checking the sources during my copyedit of the earlier article. Water under the bridge now for some, but not for me. Eric Corbett 19:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
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The Teamwork Barnstar |
Thank you for your suggestions and participation in the FAC for Blackwater fire of 1937...it is now a Featured Article. MONGO 15:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC) |