Knowledgekid87 (talk | contribs) New. |
Eric Corbett (talk | contribs) →RfA: you're trying to teach me something? |
||
Line 377: | Line 377: | ||
Rather than going on about it on Montana's page who I was originally addressing, I figured I would come here as I am addressing you. I do know an admin isn't going to get along with everyone, so what would an admin do in that situation? If Montana were an admin right now, how would be the best way to defuse the problem? Letting it be in it's current state is one option but the results of that are 50/50, it will either get better or get worse. In problems it also takes two to tango or else the problem might have been solved by now. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 19:42, 11 October 2015 (UTC) |
Rather than going on about it on Montana's page who I was originally addressing, I figured I would come here as I am addressing you. I do know an admin isn't going to get along with everyone, so what would an admin do in that situation? If Montana were an admin right now, how would be the best way to defuse the problem? Letting it be in it's current state is one option but the results of that are 50/50, it will either get better or get worse. In problems it also takes two to tango or else the problem might have been solved by now. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 19:42, 11 October 2015 (UTC) |
||
:Don't bother trying to repeat tired old sayings to me. Abuse on WP is nothing to do with dancing, it just takes one obsessive lunatic. I'll leave it to you to judge who the lunatic is. [[User:Eric Corbett| <span style="font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:900; color:green;">Eric</span>]] [[User talk:Eric Corbett|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:500;color: green;">Corbett</span>]] 19:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 19:49, 11 October 2015
2007 |
---|
2008 |
2009 |
2010 |
2011 |
2012 |
2013 |
2014 |
2015 |
Borley Rectory article
Articles on Wikipedia should never make assertions or claims for the factual truth of religious beliefs and spiritual or supernatural phenomena. The reasons why doing so is not acceptable in a secular encyclopaedia should be obvious. Therefore it is required that your recent edits must be reverted. Afterwriting (talk) 18:31, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- I see nothing "religious" about hauntings. Ghosts clearly exist, they've been reported throughout history. The only question is, what is that people are actually reporting? I think in fact that it's you who's taken a wholly inappropriate religious stance, not me. Eric Corbett 18:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- Regardless of your beliefs about this your editing is a a clear violation of Wikipedia's policies. No claims of objective or factual truth about such things are ever acceptable. Afterwriting (talk) 18:51, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- This is not just my "opinion". And the onus is not on me to initiate further discussion on the talk page. Afterwriting (talk) 19:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- What "pseudo-religious stance" and "religious fervour"?! The onus is very clearly on you to attempt to justify making truth claims in articles in clear violation of Wikipedia's policies. Afterwriting (talk) 19:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Daft isn't it. This "fringe theory" thing really seems to be an American thing.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:29, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Rod Steiger
Good to see you back Eric. I intend to take Rod Steiger to FAC later in the week, I wondered if you could give it a read and edit beforehand? It looks in good shape to me, but I'm sure you'll spot a fair few things!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
GAR input
Hey Eric, can you look at Chrome Division and Alphastates, articles I've nominated for GA reassessment? Thanks in advance.--Retrohead (talk) 17:28, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Freida Pinto
Hi Eric, hope you're doing good now. I've nominated the above article for FAC. It's been quite a while since I last wrote a BLP. I would be really grateful if you could give a full read and spot prose glitches which I might have missed. Thanks, —Vensatry (ping) 11:18, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
- Just in case you'd missed out this one, can you please give a full read? —Vensatry (ping) 09:16, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
This article about an ice cream company in your neck of the woods just came in on CAT:CSD. I've tidied up but since you're local you (or any of the Greater Manchester regulars) might be able to do a better job, I dare say? I've got a gut feeling they were probably more popular in the early - mid 20th century than nowadays. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:40, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
opinion notability of murders vs murderers
As you've been active at Moors Murders article, I thought I would seek your opinion about a similar article. I've suggested a page move at Talk:Peter_Sutcliffe#Proposed_page_move. It seems logical to me that we should have an article about a set of murders in preference to a biography of a murderer, in exactly the same way as the Moors. What are your thoughts? Is there a difference between the two cases I am missing? --ℕ ℱ 21:09, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
R. M. Ballantyne
I saw you reverted my edited on R. M. Ballantyne. I can't read the source because it is behind a paywall. But more of Ballantyne's books other than the Coral Island are obviously certainly read. There are reviews for them on Amazon and Goodreads.
How would you clarify the article to say that the Coral Island is most read, but not the only of his books that is read? Jehorn (talk) 03:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- I would say what the source says, which I did. If you can find another source to contradict the one cited then we can make whatever changes are necessary then. Eric Corbett 14:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Wow
Thank you. I didn't expect that. Wow. Montanabw(talk) 02:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Curious
Your account is newer than most senior editors, but your talk page has more page watchers than Administrators? You must be doing a great job. --112.79.37.44 (talk) 17:44, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Strange that, isn't it. ;-) Eric Corbett 18:27, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) It proves something very important. DBaK (talk) 18:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The Cult of Eric has no boundaries.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) You WHAT???? ... sorry, sorry, misread it there for a moment. Phew. DBaK (talk) 12:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- The Cult of Eric has no boundaries.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) It proves something very important. DBaK (talk) 18:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Help us improve wikimeets by filling in the UK Wikimeet survey!
Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:
Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 17:49, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Notification
I did this NE Ent 01:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Postmortem on Montanabw's failed RfA
After dragging me into this discussion on his talk page for no obvious reason, Kudpung deleted this objection from me:
How did I get dragged into this? And what's this "anti-admin brigade"? In point of fact, no matter what Kudpung or the founder think, I believe that WP would be very fortunate indeed to have a few more editors more like me and less like them.
I think that's deeply dishonest of Kudpung, although not entirely unexpected. Eric Corbett 16:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
- His whole "anti-admin brigade" thing needs to go. It's not only intellectually dishonest, it's a passive-aggressive form of personal attack. Intothatdarkness 17:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
- I have not been around much and, alas, wasn't aware of the RfA. If memory serves me right, I think there is a quite long history of disagreement between you and Kudpung, Eric. It probably isn't worth stirring it further, however irked you may be. This is not to say that you should not have posted what you did - I've not looked at it - but rather to say that it isn't worth your time pursuing the issue because of WP:TPG etc. This said by someone who has been through that mill, so there is an element of pot and kettle in what I say. Either I'm getting soft in my old age or the morphine is kicking in, and my money is on the latter. Might I suggest Walter Whitehead as a distraction? It is probably in need of some TLC of the type that only a few here can supply. - Sitush (talk) 23:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not the one who was stirring anything. For reasons best known to himself Kudpung decided to drag me into a discussion of Montanabw's RfA, and then deleted my objection. It's no secret that I have no time for Kudpung and his namby-pamby attitude to RfA reform, but I'm not the one acting dishonestly and with malice. Eric Corbett 23:32, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
If it helps, I was the one who pinged you after he posted links to your previous RfA attempts as some sort of example for me to consider. (not sure what was implied because when I took it one way, he explained that he didn't mean it that way, so... meh.) If you want to trout me, that would be OK; I'm trying to get some feedback from selected sources. My RfA was quite the drahmah, complete with off-wiki canvassing against my candidacy, and because I could not "canvass" to alert people I was running, and because it was stated - that I have a WP:OWN problem, a "battlefield mentality" and bite newbies, it failed at about 60%. I was very heartened to see that I acutually had more support !votes than 9 of the 15 successful RfAs this year - it was the percentage of opposed that killed it. I'll acknowledge that in retrospect I do recognize that I sometimes charge into situations with guns blazing when I don't need to, and I intend to work on that; the rest needs some time for me to process to decide what needs to be taken to heart and what was simply misunderstood. I do plan to try again, probably next spring, giving it 6 months plus a touch extra to be sure that the annual March madness/silly season/cabin fever that seems to hit WP every spring has passed. Montanabw(talk) 01:20, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
- Kudpung linked you to my RfAs, the most recent of which was more than eight years ago now, without explaining why. He has recently accused me of personal attacks and trolling because I posted the message I've quoted at the top of this section, objecting to his dragging me into your postmortem. I think that tells me everything I need to know about Kudpung. Just remember what they say about sleeping with dogs. Eric Corbett 13:12, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
- I'm asking selected "oppose" !voters for their views, at least the ones who didn't appear to have a pre-existing vendetta. I plan to try again and I think it's helpful to understand their views, regardless of whether I agree with their conclusion. I think it was Ben Franklin who said something like "love your enemies, they will tell you your faults." Not that I have any. ;-) Montanabw(talk) 21:48, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Grab your free t-shirt fellow disciples!
Page stalkers, you've all been selected for a free t-shirt!♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:52, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
The foundation are giving them out free of charge!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:29, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
- Damn...I wanted a coffee mug.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:46, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
- I made a template myself. Need inspiration (image, colours) for another one saying "This user has been called a monster." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- No ideas yet? How about: "This user is trained in the art of infobox terrorism, allegedly."? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- Still no ideas? More imagery perhaps? "This user is a grease monkey oily character, allegedly." (Just to prove that it IS easy to be a bit nicer to each other.)--Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I made a template myself. Need inspiration (image, colours) for another one saying "This user has been called a monster." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I could do with some more T-shirts, most of mine have the battle scars of cats having impaled small holes in them (in an affectionate way), but I'm worried if I get one of these I'll get even more grief from the "saying 'fuck' is more important than writing articles" brigade. Still, I have started to tackle Leicester Square partly so it can eventually get to GA but partly because all the juicy gossip from the 18th and 19th centuries is missing. In the olden days, people used to gloat over severed heads of traitors at Temple Bar, now they just gloat over block logs. (And I wonder if I can find a source for that old joke about the American tourist saying "gee whiz, can ya tell me the way to Lie-chest-terr Square?") Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- We actually have a name for them here in the states. We call them Tourons.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I like the concept of your cats making good faith edits to your teeshirts.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 08:19, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- Aw, c'mon - we Yanks have greatly improved our British pronunciation. I myself mastered it during my year of exchange study at Loogabarooga. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 20:11, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- Does [[1]] count as a reliable source? John O'London (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I'd say no. Eric Corbett 19:18, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's not a great source, nor is a Daily Mail piece, but the fact does crop up in at least one book on IPA and one on English as a second language on Google Books, so I don't think it's that extraordinary or trivial a claim. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I know this will incur the wrath of the Original Research Fairy, but from experience the usual pronunciation from Americans is "Leester"—I suspect they know from Worcester sauce how to pronounce the "cester" suffix, but get thrown by the "Lei" (which is, admittedly, utterly counter-intuitive). Having heard a string of commentators a couple of days ago taking stabs at "Mönchengladbach", the Brits are in no position to feel superior. (You would think "learn how to say the name of the team" would be the first item on any commentator's to-do list, but apparently not.) ‑ iridescent 17:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I think "Lie-chest-er" is apocryphal and had gain traction purely for Brits to laugh at how "stupid" Americans are (though who here thought Kansas and Arkansas rhymed?) I think I've mentioned this before, but years ago I had to restrain myself from laughing when I heard a bunch of tourists talk about getting off the train at Chizz-wick, one person thinking Towcester was spelled like the thing that you put bread into at breakfast time, and another thinking Reading and reading were homonyms. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I get unduly annoyed at the fact that the woman who recorded the "this train is now approaching…" announcements for London Transport didn't know how to pronounce "Plaistow" or "Chesham", and even more annoyed at the fact that LT have never bothered to correct it. (Before you laugh too hard at the poor benighted yankees, see if you can get the pronunciation of "Sḵwx̱wú7mesh" right first time.) ‑ iridescent 17:41, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's the lady who provided the recordings for the buses, who can't pronounce 'Aldwych' or 'Aldgate', who annoys me. She also tends to overemphasise the wrong word in places like 'Moorgate Station' and 'Trinity Street'. The one I have trouble with is 'Walthamstow' - is it [t] or [th]? I think it may have changed since I was a kid. John O'London (talk) 09:38, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- I get unduly annoyed at the fact that the woman who recorded the "this train is now approaching…" announcements for London Transport didn't know how to pronounce "Plaistow" or "Chesham", and even more annoyed at the fact that LT have never bothered to correct it. (Before you laugh too hard at the poor benighted yankees, see if you can get the pronunciation of "Sḵwx̱wú7mesh" right first time.) ‑ iridescent 17:41, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I think "Lie-chest-er" is apocryphal and had gain traction purely for Brits to laugh at how "stupid" Americans are (though who here thought Kansas and Arkansas rhymed?) I think I've mentioned this before, but years ago I had to restrain myself from laughing when I heard a bunch of tourists talk about getting off the train at Chizz-wick, one person thinking Towcester was spelled like the thing that you put bread into at breakfast time, and another thinking Reading and reading were homonyms. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I know this will incur the wrath of the Original Research Fairy, but from experience the usual pronunciation from Americans is "Leester"—I suspect they know from Worcester sauce how to pronounce the "cester" suffix, but get thrown by the "Lei" (which is, admittedly, utterly counter-intuitive). Having heard a string of commentators a couple of days ago taking stabs at "Mönchengladbach", the Brits are in no position to feel superior. (You would think "learn how to say the name of the team" would be the first item on any commentator's to-do list, but apparently not.) ‑ iridescent 17:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's not a great source, nor is a Daily Mail piece, but the fact does crop up in at least one book on IPA and one on English as a second language on Google Books, so I don't think it's that extraordinary or trivial a claim. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I'd say no. Eric Corbett 19:18, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- Does [[1]] count as a reliable source? John O'London (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I could do with some more T-shirts, most of mine have the battle scars of cats having impaled small holes in them (in an affectionate way), but I'm worried if I get one of these I'll get even more grief from the "saying 'fuck' is more important than writing articles" brigade. Still, I have started to tackle Leicester Square partly so it can eventually get to GA but partly because all the juicy gossip from the 18th and 19th centuries is missing. In the olden days, people used to gloat over severed heads of traitors at Temple Bar, now they just gloat over block logs. (And I wonder if I can find a source for that old joke about the American tourist saying "gee whiz, can ya tell me the way to Lie-chest-terr Square?") Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Books and Bytes - Issue 13
Books & Bytes
Issue 13, August-September 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)
- New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
- Expansion into new languages, including Viet and Catalan
- Spotlight: Elsevier partnership garners controversy, dialogue
- Conferences: PKP, IFLA, upcoming events
The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:30, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Jimmy Wales Speaks at Closing Ceremony of Wikimania 2014
Can anyone spot the missing word? Expertise! Apparently the only problem is that we all have to be so much nicer to each other. Eric Corbett 20:22, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- ... which would be rather easy! says the "monster" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- There seems to be no protection now from the blind tyranny of this type of love and kindness. --Epipelagic (talk) 23:01, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I liked what NE Ent (I think it was Ent) said recently, we don't have a civility policy, we have a civility meme. Montanabw(talk) 05:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- It was: Wikipedia:Civility meme. NE Ent 11:46, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- One thing I have never been able to understand about all this nauseating preaching of American love and civility, compared to us bitter, twisted and nasty Europeans is why they are always shooting each other. Every time one picks up a newspaper another Randy, Hank or Chuck has lost the plot and bagged a few of his compatriots, it seems to be an almost daily occurrence over there. Much better a be a bit grumpy and rub along together in uneasy, rude contentment. Giano (talk) 14:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- It was: Wikipedia:Civility meme. NE Ent 11:46, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I liked what NE Ent (I think it was Ent) said recently, we don't have a civility policy, we have a civility meme. Montanabw(talk) 05:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Welcome to my world. The refrain I hear out here sometimes is "an armed society is a polite society." My guess is that it comes from that - be nice, because you never know who has both a short fuse and a firearm. Except that, as you pointed out, it doesn't really work that way; the short-fused are still short-fused. But, at least even the Montana legislature did agree (barely) that it certainly wouldn't be a good idea to allow concealed carry into bars. (What could possibly go wrong?) Montanabw(talk) 18:13, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- Open carry into bars is, however, perfectly legal. And frankly I get tired of people trying hang the civility thing on Americans. Assholes are assholes, regardless of race, gender, or national origin. And quite a few of the civility pushers seem to be assholes. Once that's determined, where they're from or how they identify really doesn't matter. Intothatdarkness 20:18, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- I do agree that assholes are assholes and assholery can occur without use of a single four-letter cuss word, too! But actually, no one can carry a firearm into a bar in Montana, period. We do have a little common sense left! ;-) Montanabw(talk) 01:13, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- Goodness me: I had to google "Open carry into bars" to see what it meant. Why on earth would anyone want to take a gun with them when going out for a drink? I can't imagine anyone doing that here or even wanting to do such an odd thing - I suppose that is the difference - so there's arseholery somewhere. Can you imaging that here: "Just off down the pub for quick pint dear; can you pass my coat, 12 bore and a box of cartridges." Totally bonkers. Giano (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- As a female, I can perfectly understand the desire to carry a gun with me into a bar. Of course, that's because a gun is a great equalizer - it enables a female who is small/weak to defend herself against attack. But shotguns aren't something I'd carry into a bar - that'd be the nice little 9mm pistol I have for concealed carry. (It's be the .45 Colt except that makes too big a bulge. The .45 is in the glove compartment when I travel in the country alone). Shotguns are good for home defense. I have a shotgun under the bed, for just that sort of problem out in the country. (Usual police/sheriff response time where I live is 15-20 minutes) When we get moved to the new place, there will be a shotgun in the stable office, for when myself and the other females are working at the stable late. As a female (and also as a non-elite person) I'm not sure why guns are so scary for folks... they are like super crossbows - when the women and non-elites could use them, power shifted. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:14, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- I regularly go to the pub with a gun. CassiantoTalk 13:24, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "when the women and non-elites could use them, power shifted". So power in the USA resides in the barrel of a gun? You must have a fuckload of psychotic arseholes roaming the country, to need to carry guns all the time. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 14:44, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- No, in the 1600s-1700s-1800s when guns (which are a lot easier and faster to learn to use became more and more common), the elites had to start paying more attention to the less powerful, because they needed them for armies as well as revolts becoming more likely to succeed. With smaller/lighter/etc guns in the 1900s, women no longer needed protectors because being able to defend yourself no longer depended on muscles alone. I can feel safe with a small pistol and some good classes in handling firearms as well as some practice. The same thing happened in the later middle ages with crossbows and archery (at least in England) (which explains my comment about crossbows), but guns were even more easier to use (at least by the 1700s) than crossbows. I'd also beg to differ about the UK and US being similar in culture. We're closer to the UK than a lot of cultures, but we're different. Americans (outside of the coasts) are much less willing to put up with restraints (by the government) on anything - whether it be speech, land use, property use, etc. We're losing some of that, but many Americans I know would not put up with some of the restrictions that UK folks regularly put up with (and I'm not just talking guns here). Trying to apply European solutions to American problems is just as wrong as trying to apply American solutions to European problems. If we're going to praise diversity, you need to accept that folks will do things you don't agree with/approve of, but that doesn't make it wrong. I like England, enjoy visiting Europe, but I'm an American and I do not see living outside my country for any length of time. I don't go to Europe and start telling Europeans how to solve their problems (and I get pissed at other Americans who do that)... so I don't see the point in Europeans doing the reverse. Embrace different cultures - don't expect everyone to be like yours. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- Bear spray is more effective than a gun at detering the extremely rare grizzly bear attack. I know of one guy that used a high caliber pistol round to try and fight off a brown bear in Alaska and the bullet ricocheted off the bear's forehead. Anything smaller than a .45 caliber is likely to just piss the bear off. I don't know if the U.S. is more or less homicidal than countries in Europe, but I don't think the statistics used to advocate for gun control are completely impartial. I do know as a former law enforcement officer I always hoped to not encounter a "bad guy" that was armed. The main issue of the bad guys though is they don't obey gun laws in some circumstances...such as the fact that the law says that a gun may only be used in self defense.--MONGO 22:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- Americans (especially outside the coasts) have to put up with plenty of petty and not so petty restraints and restrictions that Europeans don't, though many are local/state laws, which are given much greater sway than elsewhere. For example, the "open carry" concept, affecting alcohol as well as guns, is a purely American one afaik. Johnbod (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- No, in the 1600s-1700s-1800s when guns (which are a lot easier and faster to learn to use became more and more common), the elites had to start paying more attention to the less powerful, because they needed them for armies as well as revolts becoming more likely to succeed. With smaller/lighter/etc guns in the 1900s, women no longer needed protectors because being able to defend yourself no longer depended on muscles alone. I can feel safe with a small pistol and some good classes in handling firearms as well as some practice. The same thing happened in the later middle ages with crossbows and archery (at least in England) (which explains my comment about crossbows), but guns were even more easier to use (at least by the 1700s) than crossbows. I'd also beg to differ about the UK and US being similar in culture. We're closer to the UK than a lot of cultures, but we're different. Americans (outside of the coasts) are much less willing to put up with restraints (by the government) on anything - whether it be speech, land use, property use, etc. We're losing some of that, but many Americans I know would not put up with some of the restrictions that UK folks regularly put up with (and I'm not just talking guns here). Trying to apply European solutions to American problems is just as wrong as trying to apply American solutions to European problems. If we're going to praise diversity, you need to accept that folks will do things you don't agree with/approve of, but that doesn't make it wrong. I like England, enjoy visiting Europe, but I'm an American and I do not see living outside my country for any length of time. I don't go to Europe and start telling Europeans how to solve their problems (and I get pissed at other Americans who do that)... so I don't see the point in Europeans doing the reverse. Embrace different cultures - don't expect everyone to be like yours. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Ealdgyth, you do realise that in every Western country except the US anyone—male or female—carrying a crossbow in public would likely be looking at some serious prison time, and every other country survives just fine? Before anyone corrects me, I know they're theoretically legal in the UK, but if you were actually out in public with one you'd be arrested to prevent a breach of the peace within seconds. I'm aware of the practical reasons for firearms in the US countryside (the largest predator in the UK is the badger; in the US grizzly bears still roam free), but there's a reason the UK had 653 murders last year and the US had 15,000 despite their cultures being almost identical other than the firearms thing. ‑ iridescent 15:14, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "despite their cultures being almost identical"? Nah, not at all. Just checked the city I live in- last February someone shot a car. And this is an ISIS recruiting ground… Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 15:35, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- Here in the UK, we just give them a damm good thrashing. Johnbod (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- Really? The British offence of "carrying an offensive weapon" is notoriously selectively enforced, and I suspect that in the French, German or Italian countryside anyone looking local can walk around bristling with arms of any sort without any trouble, even in these times. The British legislation on weapons is actually very recent, but the difference is that Brits rarely owned or carried guns even when they could. Of course in Ealdgyth's favourite period everyone male routinely carried blade weapons. My favourite historical titbit, which I hope is true, is that it was very easy to get into the back of the room to watch Louis XIV eat dinner, but you (men) had to be carrying a sword - with shoe-buckles it was part of the required court dress. If you hadn't brought one, you could rent it at shops outside the Palace of Versailles. Johnbod (talk) 15:42, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "The incidence of duelling was so great among French journalists who had been challenged over something they had written that in the 19th century some newspapers had a fencing hall where reporters could practice their fencing skills ahead of being challenged." (Duncan Noble, Allez Messieurs, p.8, Classic Arms & Militaria XXII 4) Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:21, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- It all seems very odd. I don't know any Americans who live in daily fear of being eaten by a grizzly bear and I really can't see (despite Ealdgyth's view) that carrying a weapon is particularly equalising or empowering, but I suppose it does explain why so many people here want to have admin tools and use them to take pops at lesser "equalised" editors. Americans and their philosophy remain a complete mystery to me. Incidentally, Johnbod is correct, a sword (often hired at the gates) was necessary court dress at 18th-century Versailles, but removing it from its scabbard was lèse-majesté which says quite a lot for European good manners - even then. Moving swiftly on two-hundred years, today, I suspect that for most men wanting to wander the streets and bars with a gun in their pocket is more to do with May West's greatest observation than protecting themselves, which is all rather sad for them. Giano (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- I work with horses and am often at stables in the country by myself at night. Say I am at the office of a stable at night, and someone decides to take off with horses/saddles/etc (it's actually reasonably common occurance). Now, I, late middle aged woman barely 5'6" tall can either watch some guy or guys who outweigh me by half again as much make off with my stuff (and he may perhaps decide to beat me up/rape me in the process) or I can ... use a gun to equalize the situation. With a gun in my hand, I'm no longer person who is too small to defend myself, but I can hold my own in the situation. (This, is of course, after self-defense classes in when to use a gun and when not to, etc). Yes, a knife would also help in self-defense, but knife fights are much more dependant on muscle mass. Guns, do not require muscle mass, thus they equalize the situation. I suspect you have to have been a woman threatened by a male who outweighs you to understand why guns aren't always evil. I also plan to move further into the country where there are indeed nasty creatures (bears, cougars, snakes, etc) that might want to take a bite out of myself or my animals. I'm not sure you can explain it to an European - if you haven't lived in the non-coasts of American, just how ... lonely it can be as a female alone in the country at night. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:50, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "The incidence of duelling was so great among French journalists who had been challenged over something they had written that in the 19th century some newspapers had a fencing hall where reporters could practice their fencing skills ahead of being challenged." (Duncan Noble, Allez Messieurs, p.8, Classic Arms & Militaria XXII 4) Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:21, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "despite their cultures being almost identical"? Nah, not at all. Just checked the city I live in- last February someone shot a car. And this is an ISIS recruiting ground… Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 15:35, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- "when the women and non-elites could use them, power shifted". So power in the USA resides in the barrel of a gun? You must have a fuckload of psychotic arseholes roaming the country, to need to carry guns all the time. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 14:44, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- I regularly go to the pub with a gun. CassiantoTalk 13:24, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
- I do agree that assholes are assholes and assholery can occur without use of a single four-letter cuss word, too! But actually, no one can carry a firearm into a bar in Montana, period. We do have a little common sense left! ;-) Montanabw(talk) 01:13, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Actually, the 2nd Amendment is widely understood to be a legacy of slavery; slave owners wanted the means to immediately mobilize the locals to put down slave rebellions. And pepper spray works on human predators too! We do keep canisters in our home just in case the occasional asshole should show up, except I just noticed that we need to replace all of them because the propellant is flat... oh well. As another female who lives in the country, and a fourth-generation resident of the real wild west, and the owner of four firearms (three of them work), all of which were given to me by my dad before he died, and all of which we keep locked up because children visit our house from time to time (where DID I put that key to the gun cabinet, anyway?) I have a very different attitude to Ealdgyth. I think Ealdgyth has to deal with the reality that she still lives within spitting distance of a major metro area (whereas I have to drive over 300 miles to get to a city of over 500,000 people). I lived for over 45 years with vision so bad I was legally blind without corrective lenses (and now they are implanted since my cataract surgery, which feels just... miraculous!) and knew damn well that if I did have a weapon, it would be dubious if I could shoot straight, and even then, any bad guy would be a) better-armed, b) a better shot, and c) a whole lot bigger than me. Weapons only equalize the situation when the other side doesn't have one. I'm a fan of 1) locks, 2) good neighbors, 3) pepper spray, 4) a moderate-sized dog that will be territorial and 5) good relations with the local cops - and 15-20 minutes ain't a bad response time! I also would hate to have to live anywhere close to a major metropolitan area. Montanabw(talk) 01:49, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
- WP says "The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state." - which I think is about right. If the British went in for constitutions, and amendments to them, they would probably have passed something similar (since the poor couldn't afford guns early on). British government policy encouraged private ownership until after WWI, when too many servicemen came back with German revolvers. And that's with neither slaves nor bears. It was only after the Hungerford massacre, producing the The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, and the Dunblane school massacre (1996, producing 2 new laws), that things really tightened up. Johnbod (talk) 03:20, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
- And MONGO is right about the bears. Pepper spray is great stuff; guns aren't that great unless you have just. the. right. one - and a damn good aim! In a half-century of Montana living, I've seen enough black bears to know that most can just be spooked off as soon as you yell at them, I think I saw a Griz in Yellowstone National Park maybe once, at a distance, but I still won't store bacon in my tent (!) and though they did have to shoot a mountain lion that showed up in town napping on someone's porch, we haven't had a mountain fatality here in decades as far as I can recall - human or horse! Most people with predator problems are idiots, other than a very few ranchers who do try to raise livestock on the edge of wilderness areas, which does suck for them, I admit... Montanabw(talk) 01:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Well, I tried to stick up for the UK by setting Ealdgyth straight on a few obviously erroneous assumptions about our fair country in her comments above - in short, yes, we do have countryside, we do have women, we do let them work alone and at night, and we do have rapists and thieves, we do have slow police response times, and yet for extremely sound reasons, which have nothing to do with us being slaves to authoritarianism or otherwise generally clueless, we still resoundingly reject the privately held 9mm as the answer. There are no cultural reasons for the difference except the bizarre mistrust many Americans have of their government. As it turns out, there's apparently a whole bunch of other reasons for her carrying a gun that she didn't share here, and me not knowing them of course means that I'm not welcome to talk to her on the subject ever again [2]. All I can say is, what a surprise. The US position on guns is indefensible, which is why its adherents can barely construct a decent argument in its defence, despite always wanting to turn up at places like this to tell disbelieving people they're the mad ones. The sooner these people are disarmed, the safer the world will be for everyone. Especially innocent children, who of course can't make any kind of informed choice over whether or not they feel safer with guns in their lives (an 11 year old just shot dead an 8 year old over a dispute about a puppy!) Kristian Jenn (talk) 20:12, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
- Ah, but you see, it's you Brits who gave us Yanks our congenital distrust of authority back in 1776, don't 'cha know... so it's really all your fault we're a buncha paranoid libertarian types! (grinning, ducking and running... ;-) ) (I am trying to be funny, in case anyone misunderstands...) Montanabw(talk) 20:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi Eric. Would appreciate if you could give a sconce over this; its at FAC, and as a lith article, needs to be just so. Myself and Vic have tried, god knows; heavy guns needed now. If you get a chance - great; if not that's ok too - I realise you get a lot of this. Hope all is tolerable. Ceoil (talk) 22:58, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
This is close to home, no? Interesting notes in the article. BTW, the article needs some help from your friendly talk page stalkers (also known as the incivility cabal, of course); it has no secondary sourcing whatsoever, though I have no doubt that such sourcing can be found. Best, Drmies (talk) 01:10, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's cited quite frequently but what I found in Google Books doesn't easily translate into a reference for our article. I looked through JSTOR but could not find any reviews of the book. Anyone? Drmies (talk) 01:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- Something here-> a sort of review. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 06:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- If I were in charge, I'd merge that into Lancashire dialect as a fairly blatant content fork—there are some academic books that are so notable that they warrant stand-alone articles independent of their subject, but this is patently not one of them. "The dialect of Bolton, and Greater Manchester in general, has been highly stigmatised" is also a rather questionable claim, since manc/lanc is probably the single most over-represented dialect in the British media and has been for decades. ‑ iridescent 15:30, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Five years ago, but what's changed?
Basically I'm an amoeba, a cockroach, shit under an admin's shoes. Has anything changed? Eric Corbett 19:51, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
- You're the tops, IMHO. I'd rather blunt honesty from an editor, rather then I'm gonna report you, for hurting my feelings from an editor, anytime. GoodDay (talk) 21:20, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
- Five years ago, I wrote one cantata article per week, as Bach did, and didn't know that admins and noticeboards existed. I woke up - rather brutally - on Halloween that year when Rlevse left. - I go back to it, writing a cantata GA per week and ignoring the noticeboards. I changed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Eric, I guess your power of lead-writing didn't change, could you apply it to Henning Mankell? Working on his Chronicler of the Winds, where all help is welcome,- not my typical topic. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Some other things have changed though Gerda; maybe one of the admins would be willing to help? I'm tired of having to live under the yoke of ArbCom's daft restrictions, which mean that I'm forbidden to say what I want to say. Eric Corbett 18:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- There is complete freedom of thought for content builders on Wikipedia. I'm sure most Wikipedia administrators and even Mr Wales himself would agree that content builders are free to run constructive commentaries on the system within the privacy of their own minds. It just that content builders are not entitled to publicly make constructive commentary on Wikipedia itself. --Epipelagic (talk) 19:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Arbcom restrictions for me as well: no infobox for an article I didn't create, "only" improve, even if I expanded a one-line stub to GA. By a strange logic, some writers of featured content think they can remove an infobox, as an improvement. I worked on Kafka where such absurdity is the norm. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:52, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
- Some other things have changed though Gerda; maybe one of the admins would be willing to help? I'm tired of having to live under the yoke of ArbCom's daft restrictions, which mean that I'm forbidden to say what I want to say. Eric Corbett 18:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Impersonate
There seems to be some people around who wish to impersonate you. That made me laugh out loud, when I saw it first, and I did knew that Eric can't make such remarks. I was about to type a reply for the ip, when it was reverted. I can't imagine what made them do that, but I feel, they might wanted to start a battle. Jim Carter 07:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
- To H-E-double toothpicks with all impersonators. That should teach 'em! Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:48, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
RfA
Rather than going on about it on Montana's page who I was originally addressing, I figured I would come here as I am addressing you. I do know an admin isn't going to get along with everyone, so what would an admin do in that situation? If Montana were an admin right now, how would be the best way to defuse the problem? Letting it be in it's current state is one option but the results of that are 50/50, it will either get better or get worse. In problems it also takes two to tango or else the problem might have been solved by now. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:42, 11 October 2015 (UTC)