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[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please do not [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|attack]] other editors, as you did at [[:Talk:Impeachment of Dilma Rousseff]]. Comment on ''content'', not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please [[Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot|stay cool]] and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-npa2 --> [[User:Saturnalia0|Saturnalia0]] ([[User talk:Saturnalia0|talk]]) 15:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC) |
[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please do not [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|attack]] other editors, as you did at [[:Talk:Impeachment of Dilma Rousseff]]. Comment on ''content'', not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please [[Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot|stay cool]] and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-npa2 --> [[User:Saturnalia0|Saturnalia0]] ([[User talk:Saturnalia0|talk]]) 15:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC) |
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{{ping|Saturnalia0}} I have no idea what you're talking about. You have not been in the extensive discussions and didn't answer any of the posts I made will doing this work. Just reverted the work. Seems pretty disruptive to me. And you claim I need to seek consensus. Where have you been? And you say I claim ownership, when you are doing your best to block me from improving the article. Listen here Mr 4-month-old account that knows all the rules, don't make me laugh [[User:Elinruby|Elinruby]] ([[User talk:Elinruby#top|talk]]) 16:03, 13 April 2017 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:03, 13 April 2017
Wilshire - Codex Totmizlahuaca
Hi. Thanks for letting me know you are talking the Codex Totomixtlahuaca off the cleanup-after-translation list and placing an expand-Spanish template on it because the es.wikipedia article is longer and presumably has more information. Thanks! Wilshire (talk) 5 Novermber 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilshire01 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
- you are welcome. I would like to see it expanded and I really have too much else going on -- if it interests you, fantastic. I am delighted it's been adopted. A couple of points you might not know -- that particular article came in a batch of messy machine translations on Mexico and Honduras that were questioned. I did a preliminary cleanup of the english (word order etc) but did not check the facts at all though and so don't necessarily believe it. It's probably true but it needs references. Also, some of that batch already had articles in english, so you may want to search english wikipedia also. I created the category "mexican historical documents" -- I don't recall anything else in there being related, but I could be wrong and it would be worth checking. If nothing else they may give you an idea about sources. Do you know about google scholar and JSTOR? Feel free to ask questions if you have some. Elinruby (talk) 15:44, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Request for definition of Ahwazi
Hi . As your edit in Iranian Arabs talk page show , you want a definition about the Ahwazi ethnic group . I searched (as I could) to find a reliable source for definition , but didn't find a good one . But if you are interested I can give you my point of view . That term , Ahwazi , is perhaps a new coinage for an ancient group of Arab-language people in Iran . The separatist political groups (See Ethnic_politics_of_Khuzestan#Arab_politics_and_separatism) , tend to use that word to stress more on a separate ethno-linguistic group . But I'm not sure if the defining geographical , ethnic or linguistic factors is clear for they themselves. --Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Barnstar
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The Special Barnstar | |
I have awarded you this barnstar in appreciation of your edits to Protect IP and your ability to remain calm and civil even in extreme conditions. You are a better wikipedian than I. Morgan Leigh | Talk 02:58, 8 November 2011 (UTC) |
Biased RIAA study
Here's an article about the RIAA study, it does not say the RIAA study is wrong, but has a study that conflicts with it http://torrentfreak.com/pirates-are-the-music-industrys-most-valuable-customers-100122/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smk65536 (talk • contribs) 06:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you!
Thanks for the Barnstar, I really appreciate it! :) That article seems to keep getting a pro-content slant, and I'm feeling that perfectly good, cited statements are being removed illegitimately, but I'll keep a watch on it. Also, I swapped out the Mozilla image for the EFF image that was previously on the page, due to possible copyvios. EFF's site is CC-By, but the Mozilla picture includes the mozilla site, which I'm not sure of, in conjunction with a Firefox theme and Windows toolbar and logo. If you find the Mozilla home page is freely licensed, feel free to replace, but crop the image so it's just the site, not browser and OS. Once again, thank you :) I look forward to editing with you more soon.C(u)w(t)C(c) 11:36, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Perfectly good cited content falls off that page all the time. I am here to tell you. :) The page for the Senate bill is worse.
- As for the image -- that's fine. There was no image there when I uploaded mine, incidentally, so it's not so much that I think the Mozilla image preferable to the EFF one, but that someone else had apparently already taken the EFF one down and I in my corner thought a picture would be nice. You are probably right about the Windows toolbar etc. I *think* the website of an open-source project would be ok, but you're right that I should double-check to make sure of the license that applies, in case someone wants to use it elsewhere. Meantime, if you are sure about the EFF website, that's one less fire to fight. Elinruby (talk) 12:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Clarification
Hi. In this edit, you lost me with the "if I had your point of view" phrase. Could I get an explanation? Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just trying to practice empathy. If I was wrong and it's insulting then I am sorry. You seem to think the bill is a good idea, is all. Or maybe I just think that because you kept putting the quotes from its language back. I've already said I *don't* want to see it passed, but that doesn't mean I am going to distort the facts that support it. I am a journalist and those ethics, accuracy and fairness among them, are important to me. Please, I do not want to squabble. This article is the top Google result for this topic, so let's make it something we xan agree is accurate. I can only work maybe another hour. We were doing really well there for about a minute :) Elinruby (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- You are "practicing empathy" with a very limited set of data. I know I've certainly not stated where I stand as far as this particular bill (or any of the related legislation presently pending or previously passed) goes, so your conclusion baffles me. I can only assume that you have misconstrued my insistence on adherence to Wikipedia editing policies as indicative of "support for the bill", simply because I keep 'enforcing' those policies in conflict with your editing - and you therefore conclude I must hold a position opposing yours. You have concluded incorrectly, and that has apparently prompted you to act in an adversarial manner; you'll find that won't serve you well as an editor at Wikipedia.
- Just trying to practice empathy. If I was wrong and it's insulting then I am sorry. You seem to think the bill is a good idea, is all. Or maybe I just think that because you kept putting the quotes from its language back. I've already said I *don't* want to see it passed, but that doesn't mean I am going to distort the facts that support it. I am a journalist and those ethics, accuracy and fairness among them, are important to me. Please, I do not want to squabble. This article is the top Google result for this topic, so let's make it something we xan agree is accurate. I can only work maybe another hour. We were doing really well there for about a minute :) Elinruby (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- While it is 100% irrelevent to my role as a Wikipedia editor on these articles, I don't mind mentioning that I do not support and would not vote for either bill for several reasons, not the least of which would be certain provisions that would negatively and severely impact business interests of mine. Equally irrelevent would be the fact that I'm far more "technically informed" on these matters than I need to be. (Seriously old-school ... I've been doing this stuff since I SysOp'd of one of the earliest, most trafficked hacker BBSs - remember those? - and I've been in the industry ever since.) What you don't seem to have grasped is that neither political passion, nor technical expertise is required to productively edit Wikipedia — and in fact, it can sometimes get in the way. We aren't supposed to edit from personal knowledge (or from personal conviction, for that matter) - take, for example, when you inserted uncited content into an article and said you'll find sources to support it later (a serious red flag). You should know by now that we're supposed to work first from reliable sources, and convey the information from those sources in our own words -- not the other way around by conveying information that we think we "know" is right, then trying to round up sources to support it. You came to these articles with definite opinions; declared on the article talk page that you had a definite point of view and possibly even a conflict of interest (a published editorial?); then charged right in to 'fix' the articles. While the subject matter can be controversial, you were wrong to assume that everyone else editing those articles has likewise chosen sides and is either friend or foe to you and must be treated as such. We don't do that here. (For the record, my participation in editing these articles would have consisted only of making sure certain inappropriate original research & synthesis specifically about 'workarounds' wasn't inserted - and I would then have left the article to other editors; but folks had to make an adversarial conflict out of it - so here I'll stay.) But I stray...
- Anyway, getting back to my request for "clarification". It was rhetorical; I only brought it up as a reminder that you really need to cease with the commenting about your fellow editors. You really don't need to be making (clueless and incorrect) assertions about my "point of view" on article discussion pages. I've been citing the WP:NPA policy to you repeatedly, but to no effect. The point, literally in a nutshell is: Comment on the content, not on the contributor. What part of that is so hard to understand? I've seen your comments about editors on the talk pages of other editors, on article talk pages, on noticeboards — and every time I remind you that such comments are unacceptable, yet you persist. (Once, you even responded with this lunacy: However, if you like, I'll edit it to say something like "Based on his past behavior, I don't feel he is a listener." Actual wording is negotiable. I don't mind clarifying that this is an opinion. Seriously?! You really haven't read the policy, have you? Comment on the content, not on the contributor.) If you really feel the need to vent, send me an email or leave a message on my talk page - the comments and insults themselves don't bother me, as I have rather thick skin in such matters ... but we don't need to be poisoning discussions that should be about article improvement. Hence my complaints. Your persistence has left me in a rather unfortunate position. Rather than a cordial and collaborative editing relationship, we have ... whatever this is. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
- I dunno, Xenophrenic. I'm trying, is all I can tell you. The article had serious deficiencies as it was and I did my best to address them. You cite policies a lot but have announced that you ignore the good faith rule, which to my eyes is the heart of the issue here. Usually when I say something like "I will provide a reference in a second" it's because I know an article on the reflist supports the statement but I am in a section where I can't see what name was assigned to it. Yes, I could open another window but I am working on an iffy wi-fi connection on the lowest-end netbook there is and I get the hourglass of death all the time without stressing the 10% of physical memory I've got to work with any more than I must. I think your background is relevant to the extent that I now know that you probably understand that statement. *I* think the facts support that the bill is a terrible idea, but if you have other facts, bring them. The article as it stands needs them. I have my fingers in other parts of the dyke just now (is there really no wikipedia page on load-balancing?) but if you don't get to it before I am done with that I guess I will try to google an alternate point of view. I think, esp given your statements above, that you may do a better job of that, however. My agenda at the moment is the technical concerns and then the sections of the law section.
- You are correct in observing that I cite policies to you a lot. Usually when I observe an edit that violates a Wikipedia policy, I'll try to determine what the editor was trying to accomplish, and then simply fix the edit in a way that is policy compliant. No citing of policies necessary. It takes a little additional effort on my part, certainly more effort than simply reverting or undoing or deleting the edit, but I usually don't mind. However, on these piracy legislation articles, I am no longer motivated to make that additional effort. Frankly, the caustic atmosphere generated by the personal attacks and the POV edit-warring have sapped that motivation from me several days ago, so now I've simply been undoing the offending edits, and citing the relevant policies.
- You are quite incorrect when you say I have announced that I ignore the assume good faith rule. If you are referring to my User Page, it says: As a general rule, I try to avoid making assumptions. WP:Assume good faith is a Wikipedia suggested guideline, not a policy; I've chosen to opt out of this one. I will still interact with proper civility and respect, as required, but be advised that I have left all assumptions about your intentions at the door where they belong. See the difference? Perhaps reading WP:Don't assume will help you understand. Rather than not assuming bad faith about editors, I do the rule one better and avoid making any assumptions at all. Which leads me to ask you, now that you are clear on my stance, to clarify what you mean when you say AGF "to my eyes is the heart of the issue here". I've not assumed anything about you. When I asked that a statement about living persons (that certain engineers were "DNS Experts") be supported by a source citation, you argued that such a citation was unnecessary because, to you, the statement was so obviously true. Or your tagging as "citation needed" of content you inserted, and left in that state despite you making dozens more edits and then logging off. These aren't assumptions, and they aren't laptop technical difficulties - they are operating contrary to Wikipedia policy. But these are just side-issue quibbles; the real "heart of the issue" is the commenting about and attacks upon editors -- here's to a speedy end to it. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 22:26, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sigh. I have done my best to be scrupulously fair towards you and have repeatedly walked away from contentious discussion, leaving you the last word. But when relevant statements with reliable sources repeatedly disappear, when ... never mind. It doesn't matter. Look. I did a rewrite of a highly contentious BLP that had been repeatedly edited warred. Mainly because I had never heard of the guy and he did seem to both deserve his due and to like to inflate his back story. I am telling you this because I looked up the conflict of interest policy because all the guy's friends and enemies were duking it out on the page. As best I can tell the policy is that they can do that as long as they do so openly. As themselves and while dealing honestly with the facts and any biases they might have. By extension, I can edit a page I have an opinion on as long as I am open about that opinion and respectful of the opinions of others. The same applies to you, as you have now admitted a bias you had not previously declared. That's fine. But in order for that to work properly I need to be able to work with data that may contradict my opinion, *and so do you*. If you are upset about the cn tags why not go find a citation? That's what I did when you did it to my work, and incidentally I am glad that you did since it seems that there was at least one link that went to a place I had not intended. The facts are the facts. If I say something that is not a fact and you can show me how it it wrong, then it is not a fact, period. The same should apply to you. If you don't get to the cn tags before I am done with what I am doing I will _ I said I would flesh out the law sections section. It's just that you wrote it and seem attached to some of that language. But I mean -- what's a particularly dangerous act of streaming? What does that even *mean*? But it keeps getting put back in.... Anyway, as I said, I don't want to fight; there is a lot to do. ok? Elinruby (talk) 01:05, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
- Anyway, as I said, I don't want to fight; there is a lot to do.
- I guess that's the main take-away from this discussion, isn't it? And I agree. But you know me; I never leave an unadressed misconception unadressed, so ...
- re: when relevant statements with reliable sources repeatedly disappear — Wasn't me; any such deletions I make are to bring an article back into compliance with Wikipedia policy.
- re: I can edit a page I have an opinion on — There is no such thing as an editor without opinions, so that goes without saying. If an editor comes to an article without an opinion about the subject, they will soon form one. That is why we have the WP:NPOV policy, and there isn't a problem as long as we adhere to it.
- re: you have now admitted a bias you had not previously declared — Indeed; I am biased toward Wikipedia policy compliance. Gosh, you caught me. But I've actually declared that numerous times throughout our interaction. As for my mentioning that I agree with you about the bill - insofar as I don't support it, and wouldn't vote for it — don't misconstrue that as "bias". That is merely a statement of my present position (subject to change at any time), based on a logical assessment of what I currently know about the specifics of the bill ... nothing more. I knew nothing of the bill before I began editing the Wikipedia article about it. If I had any "biases" about it, those would prevent unprejudiced consideration of the issue, which is the farthest thing from my situation.
- re: why not go find a citation? — Under other circumstances, I certainly might, but that bridge has long since burned. Simply do a word search for the phrase "no longer motivated" in the conversation above for a refresher explanation as to exactly why.
- re: what's a particularly dangerous act of streaming? — I have no clue; that is not content that I added. Perhaps check with the originating editor?
- Sincerely, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- I dunno, Xenophrenic. I'm trying, is all I can tell you. The article had serious deficiencies as it was and I did my best to address them. You cite policies a lot but have announced that you ignore the good faith rule, which to my eyes is the heart of the issue here. Usually when I say something like "I will provide a reference in a second" it's because I know an article on the reflist supports the statement but I am in a section where I can't see what name was assigned to it. Yes, I could open another window but I am working on an iffy wi-fi connection on the lowest-end netbook there is and I get the hourglass of death all the time without stressing the 10% of physical memory I've got to work with any more than I must. I think your background is relevant to the extent that I now know that you probably understand that statement. *I* think the facts support that the bill is a terrible idea, but if you have other facts, bring them. The article as it stands needs them. I have my fingers in other parts of the dyke just now (is there really no wikipedia page on load-balancing?) but if you don't get to it before I am done with that I guess I will try to google an alternate point of view. I think, esp given your statements above, that you may do a better job of that, however. My agenda at the moment is the technical concerns and then the sections of the law section.
- Anyway, getting back to my request for "clarification". It was rhetorical; I only brought it up as a reminder that you really need to cease with the commenting about your fellow editors. You really don't need to be making (clueless and incorrect) assertions about my "point of view" on article discussion pages. I've been citing the WP:NPA policy to you repeatedly, but to no effect. The point, literally in a nutshell is: Comment on the content, not on the contributor. What part of that is so hard to understand? I've seen your comments about editors on the talk pages of other editors, on article talk pages, on noticeboards — and every time I remind you that such comments are unacceptable, yet you persist. (Once, you even responded with this lunacy: However, if you like, I'll edit it to say something like "Based on his past behavior, I don't feel he is a listener." Actual wording is negotiable. I don't mind clarifying that this is an opinion. Seriously?! You really haven't read the policy, have you? Comment on the content, not on the contributor.) If you really feel the need to vent, send me an email or leave a message on my talk page - the comments and insults themselves don't bother me, as I have rather thick skin in such matters ... but we don't need to be poisoning discussions that should be about article improvement. Hence my complaints. Your persistence has left me in a rather unfortunate position. Rather than a cordial and collaborative editing relationship, we have ... whatever this is. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
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The Half Barnstar |
Half a barnstar each to Elinruby and Xenophrenic - you guys bicker like cats and dogs, but somehow the result of your personal friction is damn good joint editing. The current state of the SOPA intro is something to be proud of, awesome job. Keep fighting I guess? (To Elinruby, kudos on being so prolific so quickly, the article needed it) Sloggerbum (talk) 07:02, 19 November 2011 (UTC) |
Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard
Hi! I just wanted to quickly thank you for your help on ugg boots. I'm not sure much could be done at NPOV, as I don't really see it as that sort of problem, but it was worth a shot - and your patience in helping out was much appreciated. :) - Bilby (talk) 03:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's actually smelling like somebody bills by the hour if you ask me, but of course we're supposed to assume good faith and all. You might consider COI (?) but that may require something beyond suspicion. The problem as I see though, based on that discussion, is that someone is insisting on having the last word, so voluntary mediation is *not* going to succeed. As fascinated as I am about some of the issues (which I see as rather akin to trademarked stereotypes of Native Americans), I have to go away now though - I said I was doing it before but it turns out my daughter is wearing ugg (generic) boots so I was telling her about the thread and showed it to her. Elinruby (talk) 03:51, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- There have been suggestions of a COI before, but it is hard to show it, and I've been inclined just to let it sit. (The suggestions went both ways, of course, not just that people from Deckers were editing). It is an interesting case, legally, as it is an odd direction. Normally a trademarked term enters common usage, but in this case a common term was allowed to be trademarked, mostly because it wasn't a common term outside of the countries of origin. (This would be enough to prevent the trademark if those countries were non-English speaking, but the US ruling was that the legislation doesn't apply to common terms from English-speaking countries). Thus it is rather curious.
- I agree that mediation is unlikely to work, but I'm not sure where the debate will head - my guess is ArbCom one day, but I'm hoping not. It will be interesting to see what the next move is. At any rate, thanks again for your patience in putting a different view, and for wading through all of our comments. :) - Bilby (talk) 23:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks are not necessary -- one of the reasons I participated was an interest in the US copyright angle. The discussion is also relevant to some of my prior research topics, such as language preservation, as well as to the deep-rooted Canadian distrust of the sheer noise level of American consumer culture, which assumes that its point of view is necessarily the most important. I may wander over and read the page someday. I have refrained from doing so as much of my personal time is currently taken up with an article about pending US legislation. I do not think most people understand the technical issues and since I do, at least enough to identify sources, that is where I'll be working for the near future. Later ;) Elinruby (talk) 00:21, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi there. Thanks very much for trying to help with this mess. Your fresh set of eyes on the situation was very useful, and while I doubt it will solve the problem (as the problem isn't of neutrality, as claimed, but of variants of language and of reliable sourcing) your effort is sincerely appreciated. Cheers. Daveosaurus (talk) 09:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Don't burn out
Holy balls, friend, while the SOPA page is greatly benefiting from having a resident friendly dragon on board, if you don't force yourself to relax a little bit on the page over the next two days, you're going to WikiStress yourself out. I think the initial surge is over - I have a feeling SOPA will be appearing in and out of the news for a few weeks, maybe even months, with associated surges in new citations. But you need to take breathers - the page will benefit most from your ministrations if you have the endurance to stick with it in the long run, not exhaust yourself in the first week. Another hazard is you getting so emotionally attached to the state of certain sections that the inevitable sloppy contributions of future editors will drive you to the brink of insanity. You're doing great, just seriously, may I recommend you think strategically about your long-term WikiHealth? Bonified dragons are rare and seem to die off so fast, I'm tired of just letting it happen. Sloggerbum (talk) 04:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- thanks for your concern but it's not sloppy well-meaning contributions that worry me. What am I supposed to do about the fact that Xenephrenic has re-inserted the same inaccurate happy talk I just removed? Again? Isn't there some way to say we should just leave this out until someone else comments? I don't even know why we need that text -- we have RS text under business concerns that contradicts the badly written inaccurate intro. Speaking of attached to text.....By the way, I asked for help with this at the discussion page of the Internet portal and the Law portal -- is that the right way to recruit some experts? Thanks. Elinruby (talk) 04:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't really feel comfortable mediating between you guys - you might want to go talk to him in detail (maybe even on a private talk page) about the specific paragraphs you are edit warring over. Honestly, my guess is you two just are either using different Wikipedia guidelines to motivate your decisions or just haven't communicated something clearly enough yet, so private conversation may help. I don't know about recruiting experts, though it makes sense the project portal would reveal people. I just dislike floating tags at the tops of articles unless extremely necessary, though you may want to consider adding temporary expert tags to the specific sections you found problems. Sloggerbum (talk) 04:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- If they can go on sections that might not be a bad idea. As for Xenephrenic, I've *tried* talking to him; usually he just tells me that I am wrong and that I don't deserve an explanation. See the extensive discussions on discussion page and on this page, shrug. Anyway. If you don't want to get involved, that's fine, but this is about to turn into another noticeboard item, which I would rather have avoided. Elinruby (talk) 04:43, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't really feel comfortable mediating between you guys - you might want to go talk to him in detail (maybe even on a private talk page) about the specific paragraphs you are edit warring over. Honestly, my guess is you two just are either using different Wikipedia guidelines to motivate your decisions or just haven't communicated something clearly enough yet, so private conversation may help. I don't know about recruiting experts, though it makes sense the project portal would reveal people. I just dislike floating tags at the tops of articles unless extremely necessary, though you may want to consider adding temporary expert tags to the specific sections you found problems. Sloggerbum (talk) 04:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- thanks for your concern but it's not sloppy well-meaning contributions that worry me. What am I supposed to do about the fact that Xenephrenic has re-inserted the same inaccurate happy talk I just removed? Again? Isn't there some way to say we should just leave this out until someone else comments? I don't even know why we need that text -- we have RS text under business concerns that contradicts the badly written inaccurate intro. Speaking of attached to text.....By the way, I asked for help with this at the discussion page of the Internet portal and the Law portal -- is that the right way to recruit some experts? Thanks. Elinruby (talk) 04:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Bias - Conflict of Interest - Financial stakes
Hi, Elinruby! I've moved the following text here from the Talk:Stop Online Piracy Act talk page because it seems we have strayed away from discussing article improvement.
- discussion quite material. Removed material includes factual disputes in addition to the personal attack on my by Xenophrenic, which he has now moved to my user page (gee thanks) Elinruby (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, I left your article-relevant material on the article talk page. I also copied it here, below, so that we'd have the context of the full conversation with which to work. Please, let's agree to keep the discourse civil and on topic; we don't need to subject other editors to unrelevant wiki-drama on article talk pages. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 22:25, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- discussion quite material. Removed material includes factual disputes in addition to the personal attack on my by Xenophrenic, which he has now moved to my user page (gee thanks) Elinruby (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, and the bit you are citing PCWorld for above is from section 103. This one says that if I am a web host and I see I host a web site that infringes on copyright, the website holder can't sue me for any breach of contract I may have had with him. The section 103 section says that reporting a website as infringing (this would be the copyright holder not the web host) when you know it is not creates liability. However, reporting the site as infringing requires that you say you have a good faith belief that it does, so it's like an IF statement that the application logic never gets to. If you have a good faith belief that something is infringing then you are not knowingly misreporting it. I have asked for expert opinion on this so please do not simply revert my edits saying "you're wrong." You have an admitted conflict of interest here and should at the very least be proposing alternate wording. But that would require that you do research. Elinruby (talk) 03:33, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- I am not citing a journalist about a controversy, I am citing the PC World source about the content of the bill. You are confusing "bill content" with concerns about that content, or the ramifications of that content if it is implemented, according to experts. Valid stuff, for sure, but not in that section. There are other sources that give the same content summary; would you like those added, or are you going to provide a reliable source that gives a different content description?
By the way, since you privately revealed to me that you are a paid lobbyist for EFF, you should probably consider tempering your edits on the more controversial subject matter.Just a suggestion. Xenophrenic (talk) 06:21, 22 November 2011 (UTC)- Giggle. I have no affiliation with the EFF, apart from having stopped by their booth at the RSA Conference a year or two ago. I also saw them in action on a story I wrote about a DEF CON presentation. I have great respect for them but they are neither my employer nor my client. I have been very open about my opinions and the sources of my knowledge on the topic, and anyone who cares to verify this can find a link to an article written under my real name on the talk page of the Senate bill. I am most insulted, not so much by the flagrantly manufactured assertion, as by the idea that I would hide such an affiliation and then reveal it to someone who has admitted a financial stake in the bill's passage and has deleted important correctly sourced material from the page. I am not sneaky, nor am I stupid. (The financial admission is on the discussion page of my user page, should anyone want to look.) I am a trained network professional with experience in network security who sometimes freelances as an information technology reporter. Look me up. Meanwhile, who are you? Elinruby (talk) 01:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
I have been asked to retract a statement I made above. I made the ludicrous assertion that Elinruby admitted to being a paid lobbyist for EFF, in response to Elinruby's ludicrous assertion that I "admitted conflict of interest here". I hereby retract that statement, and have struck it out as well. It was wrong of me to respond to a false statement with a false statement. Xenophrenic (talk) 10:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Elinruby, in the above discussions you have falsely asserted that I...
- "admitted a bias you had not previously declared"
- "have an admitted conflict of interest here"
- "admitted a financial stake in the bill's passage"
- I have done none of that. I am requesting that you cease with such accusations. And just so we're clear, I do not have a bias about the legislation; nor do I have a financial stake in what happens to the legislation (either way); nor do I have a conflict of interest in any way with these articles. In the interest of "practicing empathy" in our discussion above, I mentioned to you that I have business interests (clients, in fact) that would be negatively impacted by parts of this legislation. I also have clients that would benefit from this legislation. As such, I get to hear the whole range of criticism and praise about specific provisions of the bill while working with my business clients. I mentioned to you that I wouldn't vote for the legislation in its present form, but please don't distort that to mean there's a conflict of interest, or that I'm financially involved, or that the moon landings were a hoax, or any other silly conclusions. Thanks, Xenophrenic (talk) 11:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- So what you are saying is that in order to make the point that you feel I have misinterpreted statements you did make, and furthermore that you feel that I failed to intuit that you might have added to them, you lied. Saying that I told you I had committed a violation of professional ethics. Privately, since there is no public statement that supports this falsehood. And that you think lying about this was ok. Elinruby (talk) 17:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- "So what you are saying..."
- No. Of course not. But please feel free to continue to misconstrue and misrepresent my words to your heart's content, if you feel you must, here on our personal Talk pages. I'll continue to correct them. It's been your application of that same illogic and misrepresentation in the editing of our Wikipedia articles these past couple weeks that has been most problematic. I'll continue to correct those, too, as time allows, but it is growing wearisome. Xenophrenic (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have re-read and the above still sounds like "yes I did falsely say that you admitted doing something sneaky that would completely discredit you if people believed me, but it was understandable because I think you misinterpret my statements, and while it was wrong it was in response to an equal wrong." I have actually never had my reading comprehension questioned before meeting you, but look, this is an honest attempt to understand. If that's not your point, what is? Elinruby (talk) 19:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Apology accepted. What I said above is that I made a tit-for-tat statement in response to a statement of yours, which was wrong for me to do, so I have retracted it. It's that simple, really. Your additional synthesis, mind-reading or divination of meanings or intentions not stated (see your "you feel yada yada" and "you think yada yada" leaps) are inappropriate. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- That was not an apology for whatever "synthesis, mind-reading or divination of meanings or intentions not stated" (don't you think this description is rather insulting?) that you may have felt I have done, merely a polite preface to disagreeing with your statement. By the way, what I am taking issue with here is exactly the fact that you see a misinterpretation (whether real or perceived) as an acceptable reason for fabricate accusations of bad behavior. As I mentioned on your user page a moment ago, all of these side discussions about what you did or did not say, and whether my failure to intuit things unsaid, such as *other* clients you might have, is reason enough to refuse simple explanations of what you do, *all* that is taking up ridiculous amounts of time that I'd rather spend on something else. So. It stops here. I'll take another look at this page tomorrow. In the meantime, have a nice day. Elinruby (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, the source of the problem: "the fact that you see a misinterpretation (whether real or perceived) as an acceptable reason for fabricate accusations"
- That's not a "fact". That is your (incorrect) assumption. I saw you post an over-the-top fabrication about me, so I tried to match your absurdity with one of my own. It's really that simple. I never saw "a misinterpretation" from you, I saw a flat out lie, and understandably figured it was just more of the same from you.
- Please do spend time on other things; you shouldn't feel the need to respond to every post I make, immediately or otherwise. There is no rush or urgency here. Pleasant holidays to you, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:54, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Especially since it would allow your assertion that you answered a lie with a lie to go unchallenged, right? Yeah, it's not tomorrow, but I woke up and came in to look at my barnstar.
- I don't lie. Ever. You can paste in your old rants all you want about me saying "It looks to me like you misquote me." It did. It still does. You just *did* misquote me, on your talk page. Or did I misunderstand poor widdle you again? Head shake. Face palm. Elinruby (talk) 01:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- And again, no diffs showing that "It did"? Of course not. And there's another of your "don't lie. Ever" moments, yet again on the article talk page just a few minutes ago. You'd make a fine politician. And the beat goes on. Xenophrenic (talk) 01:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- why do you need a diff? It's the most recent entry on your talk page and you've responded to it several times. There is no dispute about authorship. Get out of my face.Elinruby (talk) 04:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Incorrect. That talk page discussion on my talk page didn't exist yet when you cast your false accusation. So I've been asking you to provide a diff to back up your aspersions. I don't "need" the diff, as I already know it doesn't exist, but I'll keep asking you to substantiate your false statements just to hear your morphing responses. Xenophrenic (talk) 08:26, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- oh, the talk page: No idea what you're talking about. Elinruby (talk) 04:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Of that I have no doubt. Xenophrenic (talk) 08:26, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- why do you need a diff? It's the most recent entry on your talk page and you've responded to it several times. There is no dispute about authorship. Get out of my face.Elinruby (talk) 04:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- And again, no diffs showing that "It did"? Of course not. And there's another of your "don't lie. Ever" moments, yet again on the article talk page just a few minutes ago. You'd make a fine politician. And the beat goes on. Xenophrenic (talk) 01:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- That was not an apology for whatever "synthesis, mind-reading or divination of meanings or intentions not stated" (don't you think this description is rather insulting?) that you may have felt I have done, merely a polite preface to disagreeing with your statement. By the way, what I am taking issue with here is exactly the fact that you see a misinterpretation (whether real or perceived) as an acceptable reason for fabricate accusations of bad behavior. As I mentioned on your user page a moment ago, all of these side discussions about what you did or did not say, and whether my failure to intuit things unsaid, such as *other* clients you might have, is reason enough to refuse simple explanations of what you do, *all* that is taking up ridiculous amounts of time that I'd rather spend on something else. So. It stops here. I'll take another look at this page tomorrow. In the meantime, have a nice day. Elinruby (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Apology accepted. What I said above is that I made a tit-for-tat statement in response to a statement of yours, which was wrong for me to do, so I have retracted it. It's that simple, really. Your additional synthesis, mind-reading or divination of meanings or intentions not stated (see your "you feel yada yada" and "you think yada yada" leaps) are inappropriate. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have re-read and the above still sounds like "yes I did falsely say that you admitted doing something sneaky that would completely discredit you if people believed me, but it was understandable because I think you misinterpret my statements, and while it was wrong it was in response to an equal wrong." I have actually never had my reading comprehension questioned before meeting you, but look, this is an honest attempt to understand. If that's not your point, what is? Elinruby (talk) 19:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- So what you are saying is that in order to make the point that you feel I have misinterpreted statements you did make, and furthermore that you feel that I failed to intuit that you might have added to them, you lied. Saying that I told you I had committed a violation of professional ethics. Privately, since there is no public statement that supports this falsehood. And that you think lying about this was ok. Elinruby (talk) 17:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
For your unending contributions to Stop Online Piracy Act, even when the rest of us couldn't keep up. C(u)w(t)C(c) 22:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC) |
You bet!
A pleasure it was. And a real pleasure too (having heard about SOPA about four hours ago, stumbling on that WP article) having your appreciation (and then to see ... a bit more of what you and all ... have done on this; impressive!). ... On we go, I guess. Good luck! Swliv (talk) 05:20, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to Try and Drag You Back in This
Hi there! I've posted a few proposals for compromise on the NPOV page for Ugg boots. You've been very helpful trying to navigate this mess and I'd really appreciate your opinion on what I've presented. I hate to try and drag you back into this but I'd like to get an outside perspective on whether this is a productive idea. I think it would clean up a lot of confusion to keep things simple. Again thank you for your time and efforts.--Factchk (talk) 20:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you for posting today. I really appreciate it. I know this debate can be frustrating.--Factchk (talk) 02:51, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
![]() |
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar |
this seams so cheap for what you've gone thru with that NPOVN discussion on Ugg boots, though I suppose now that I've sent it you'll be considered an honorary bias Australian editor. Cheer up mate you could be called worse Gnangarra 11:22, 9 December 2011 (UTC) |
A cookie for you!
![]() |
Elinruby, thanks for your hard work on the SOPA article. Much appreciated! Atlasowa (talk) 11:17, 14 December 2011 (UTC) |
Request for your perspective on SOPA
Hi Elinruby, there's currently an ongoing discussion about splitting the Stop Online Piracy Act page at Talk:Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#ONGOING_DISCUSSION_-_Splitting_the_Article. You've familiarized yourself with the entry before, and your insight and perspective on the matter would be appreciated. Hope to see you there, Sloggerbum (talk) 23:45, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Reliable sources
I looked at your comments. Thanks! :-)
But I think you should tell me where my sources went wrong. Why is a source from 1894 not necessarily reliable?VR talk 03:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's not exactly what I said. I said I was not able to verify that the source existed in the time that I was willing to spend on the matter. In other words, the online archive does not go back that far and I was not fired up enough about this to find out what university library might have a copy. But that does not mean the source is bad. If you re-read slower you will find me saying a) that there is no requirement that a source be *easy* to verify, just that it must be *possible* to verify it and b) when Athenean sneered at it, that history does not have a sell-by date, unlike science or technology, and that there is nothing inherently wrong with an 1894 reference as long as it supports the contention it is supposed to support.
- That said, this question has been somewhat interesting in that Athenean cited three quite scholarly sources, the sort of thing you might use in a thesis footnote, but two of them were not really reliable for the question because they were limited in their scope to Europe and therefore their failure to include al-Karaouine proves nothing. A third did not really support his contention, I thought. Yours on the other hand were a bit weaker overall. Some of them only mentioned this question in passing, but got rated fairly high because the authors appear to have expertise. Others I rated lower because, well, if they don't say where they got the information, it's hard to tell how much credence to give them. I went through them one by one but put that under a hatnote as it was a hugely long post. Take a look in contrast at some of the ones I listed, which deal specifically with early universities, although some of them in turn are specific to Africa...but these are not sources which can be mocked.
- Reliable for purposes of Wikipedia is not the same as academically irrefutable, and for purposes of weight this matters. If that is unclear I will try to answer any questions you may have.
- You should take another look at the discussion, by the way. Someone has correctly pointed out that the proposed changes diverge from University which has many of the same problems and in fact uses the same source, limited to Europe, that Athenean posted to the discussion. I proposed enlarging the scope of the discussion and waiting for input from involved editors. I am trying not to become one; I have a lot of things I have promised to other people that I put off for that discussion. In particular I promised to look at the sourcing for Pakistan's role in the Taliban article, which is also at NPOV. Right now I think that there is a case to be made for ISI involvement, but not for the claim that they *founded* the Taliban. But I am not done with the sources and have gotten in a job which must be done by tomorrow. If you have thoughts, please feel free to speak up there. I am just barely literate on the topic, but I suppose I do qualify as fresh eyes. Elinruby (talk) 05:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you and update
Hi ElinRuby,
I wanted to thank you for your reply at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Academic_Conferences, and to tell you have I've now extended the query to cover three specific conferences relating to a particular paragraph (I'm a little worried that it's an old enough thread that it won't get enough attention, hence my hawking for more opinion here... :) Failedwizard (talk)
Similar proposal to an earlier one, to suspend NPOV for the SOPA article. You put things so well the first time that I copy and pasted it into the current discussion. I hope I didn't overstep on this. It just exemplified my feelings very well. 24.11.87.186 (talk) 05:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just wanted to say hope you are doing well, and feeling ok! I agree with mr. anon - I was on the talk page and ran into your reposted spiel about npov, and think it sums everything up perfectly. Bummed by a blackout though. Wish this stupid law never appeared in the first place, 24 hours w/out wiki is going to be hell. Sloggerbum (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
- Are you alright?? Sloggerbum (talk) 19:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
- yes. Just preoccupied. More later. Elinruby (talk) 19:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm holding you to that - let me know when you re-enter wiki world, you're missed Sloggerbum (talk) 17:40, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
- yes. Just preoccupied. More later. Elinruby (talk) 19:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
- Are you alright?? Sloggerbum (talk) 19:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just wanted to say hope you are doing well, and feeling ok! I agree with mr. anon - I was on the talk page and ran into your reposted spiel about npov, and think it sums everything up perfectly. Bummed by a blackout though. Wish this stupid law never appeared in the first place, 24 hours w/out wiki is going to be hell. Sloggerbum (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Mediation
You may interested in this mediation as you were an active participant when this was on WP:NPOVN.VR talk 00:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This is in response to your message. You said you may still me interested in mediation. I have also asked GunPowderMa to enter into mediation due to our disputes. And, although my disagreements with GunPowderMa are more wide-ranging (including Madrasa and Medieval Muslim universities), I feel they are sufficiently related. Would you like to enter such a mediation if it happens?VR talk 13:13, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
Ugg page
As the page is locked I have set it up in my sandbox and made test changes per talk to see how it looks. I have also rewritten the history a bit. The page should not be seen as a replacement but one we can do test edits on. Feel free to have a look, make changes if you like and/or comment on the sandbox talk page. I have posted this message on several editors talk pages. Despite P&W's usual claims in this regard, we have a consensus for the edits per talk page so if we (editors who have shown they can work together and compromise if needed) can agree on how the article page reads it may avoid the inevitable long winded discussions in Talk once the page is unlocked. Wayne (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
just checking in
Hey Elinruby, you should seriously log on here every now and again and let people know how you're doing. For reals. Sloggerbum (talk) 03:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
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Just a head's up, footer templates like Template:Punk and Template:Hardcore punk are for articles about music genres, not individual bands or labels. The same is true for Template:Infobox music genre, which in addition should only include the relevant genres. (It's very unlikely that a punk genre, for example, would be influenced by all of the listed stylistic origins.) So edits like this and this are unnecessary, plus this even added unnecessary maintenance tags as if they'd been there from 2013. I hope this helps. Cheers! Woodroar (talk) 11:34, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
@Woodroar my bad then. I will try to revisit this and fix my mess. What I was trying to remedy was a whole lot of scattered orphans in the Latino punk genre, where I don't have a lot of subject knowledge. Perhaps you know of a list I could put these on? I got into this because I noticed that Latino punk was an orphan, and had no wikilinks, and Saicos apparently was really important... and... so it goes. Right now I am wikignoming off on another adventure and just broke Henning Mankell, so I need to fix that chop chop. And he is famous and just died and these have been languishing a while. Let me know if you have suggestions though, I am definitely open to hearing them. I do not normally play in the music pages, Thanks for the feedback. Elinruby (talk) 22:25, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
- Latino punk is probably the closest thing we have. I couldn't find any categories, and I don't think we have any lists, either. Looking at Latino punk, there aren't many related articles at all. Which is sad, but I know those bands have to exist. (Of course it's possible that there aren't sufficient sources on them to support articles, or maybe nobody has located the sources and started the articles.) I'm not an expert on Latino punk/hardcore bands, either, just a fan of Los Crudos. Anyways, I think that a link to Latino punk is fine for most or all of those articles, just without the genre templates. I can try to find some time to clean them up in the next day or two as well if you're busy. :) Cheers! Woodroar (talk) 00:04, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
@Woodroar they do exist; but almost all the groups I wikilinked on the Latino punk page (which was an orphan) were also orphans.And yeah, I thought it was kinda sad too. There was an Argentine punk page and a Punk in Brazil page which were also orphans. There was a page for El Vez which was an orphan. Pretty sure his record label page was also an orphan :) maybe a list is the answer. Also, a lot of the bands mentioned on these pages seem to still be in existence but not have wikipedia pages. I fixed the fire on Henning Mankell, but there is quite a bit still to do there -- he's relatively obscure in the US but everyone is doing a retrospective and in the noir genre he's actually fairly significant. And he's one of my favorite authors so I'd like to clean up the page. Latino punk was something I picked off the list of pages that need help as a pro bono project and it developed a whole scary bunch of project scope creep. A lot of the text needs re-writing and while I did a first and second pass, mumble, I have no idea what a reliable source is for punk rock and yada yada. I am interested kinda but I sank a bunch of hours into it already and had moved on... I'll come back to it when I am done with Mankell though, which is a single page vs a whole tar pit Elinruby (talk) 02:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with work. I'll undo the genre templates for now and see if there's any other tinkering I can do on those articles. Feel free to dive in if or when you're done elsewhere. :) Cheers! Woodroar (talk) 23:45, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
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A barnstar for you!
![]() |
The Barnstar of Diligence |
Thank you so much for your tenacious edits on the Panama Papers page, especially regarding the Clinton links! Much appreciated ![]() |
![]() |
The Barnstar of Diligence |
Thank you so very much also from me!![]() |
Panama / Taiwan
Hey there. Just dropping a note to say that that paragraph bothers me too but I don't feel up to the task of rewriting it entirely as I think the issue is a little more complicated than that. And oh, thanks for your work on the article! :) TKY (talk) 00:17, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
@TKY: it usually is ;) Doing anything at all with Georgia gets you a gold star as far as I am concerned...Elinruby (talk) 00:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Benazir Bhutto and messed up refs
You are screwing up the references. Please do them right. I've reverted your edit. You can undo my edit IF you fix the refs. See the two notices above this, you did the same there and I've been fixing those mistakes. No more. Bgwhite (talk) 20:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: hmmm I am under the impression that I am mostly getting these as I go -- a lot of the above are already fixed, I think -- but hey, alright, if I am upsetting you I will stop for a minute and make sure. And check my user page more often I guess, though usually I go by the reference section errors But I am moving big blocks of text around, losing the odd bracket in cut and paste does happen and I do fix them. Usually quite promptly. Are you getting an error message every time one exists for any length of time because of your script or whatever that tool is? Is that what's going on? Not sure what I can do about that if so as I am already tring to be careful, but I will see what I can do. Scrolling up to check over what bracketbot says now Elinruby (talk) 21:32, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: I reverted you and there were zero (0) reference errors on the Benazir Bhutto page. I am still going through the messages on my talk page to make sure I didn't leave an unpaired parenthesis somewhere but I really --- well, this is not a good time for me to discuss this with you. I think you should figure out a way to update the logging on your tool or at least do a reality check before you accuse people of "trashing" wikipedia. Maybe check your assumptions. For one thing, you haven't been fixing the references listed on my talk page because I remember fixing them. But I will check, just in case I am missed one, because I said I would. Where you have seen me before is Panama Papers, which, yes indeedy, is chock-full of machine translations of plagiarized text and untranslated syntax from wikipedias in other languages which probably never heard of the MOS, and oh, references that contain wikilinks and no title and all sorts of happy stuff like that. And some of my drpped brackets, because I've done big edits there too. But even I cannot fix all wikipedia errors in the blink of an eye, buddy, much less introduce universal use of cite ref by all the non-english-speaking newbie IPs that ...argh. Bottom line, it appears to me that your tool does not expect errors on wikipedia to get corrected, and while I certainly feel you on that, you would appear in this case to have been quite wrong about that, mmm? So my suggestion is a) maybe a for loop to see if all messages are still actually present before you start fix operations or lose your temper, and b) maybe consider switching to decaf. Elinruby (talk) 22:52, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
North Mount Lyell
Is a company, mine and place, I have no idea whatsoever where your edits are coming from, I do hope you are ok. JarrahTree 02:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC) The other way to put it, is do you have a reasonable explanation as to why ? :-
- 06:54, 4 June 2016 (diff | hist) . . (+32) . . North Mount Lyell (added Category:New Zealand people using HotCat)
- 06:52, 4 June 2016 (diff | hist) . . (+43) . . North Mount Lyell (added Category:Businesspeople by nationality using HotCat)
- 06:50, 4 June 2016 (diff | hist) . . (+32) . . North Mount Lyell (added Category:Mining in Tasmania using HotCat)
- 06:50, 4 June 2016 (diff | hist) . . (+33) . . North Mount Lyell (added Category:History of Tasmania using HotCat)
Mining and History, maybe,(technically there should be a more complex array of mining companies, and history of the west coast rather than the whole island, but not now) but then there is the problem of parent and child cats and category trees... JarrahTree 02:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
I just saw your diffs come in and I am looking at them now. I got them as I was writing this; "@JarrahTree: I am fine. I am trying to fill in some mining history. My topic only tangentially touches on New Zealand though, and I admit to utter ignorance of the place. I did get that much though, that the company had a mine and that that is where the place name came from. If there is something specific that I did that is wrong with the article now then please be specific and I will address it. If we're talking about the change you reverted last night and that I thanked you for reverting, as I said, I must have thought I was in another window. It wasn't something I would do on purpose and thank you again for fixing it. If you are talking about something else, then please let me know what. Elinruby (talk) 02:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)" If it's categories, mmmmaybe... I've been accused of being category-happy before, checking it out. Elinruby (talk) 02:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- The lead sentence is North Mount Lyell was the name of a mine, mining company, locality (sometimes as North Lyell) and former railway
- It is on the west coast of Tasmania, and is not a person or a New Zealander
- It was not a businessperson - a defunct mining company maybe...
JarrahTree 02:34, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
@JarrahTree: I see. My apologies. One reason we are having this conversation is that Tasmania is not in New Zealand. Doh. How embarrassing. I did know that, yet for some reason when I did that I was thinking it was the north island of New Zealand. I see you took that one off, and good. As for the business person, I was thinking about Crotty, but I suppose that would be better on his own page, since he has one. Chances are there isn't a Businesspeople in Australia category either; there were very few subcategories there as I recall. If you think the category is too broad for the article, then fine, chalk it up to youthful exhuberance ;). On History of Tasmania and Mining in Tasmania: yeah, was just trying to get the article connected to others of its kind. One of the things I am finding in the mining articles generally is a lot of siloing and incomplete accounts. If there is some sort of West vs East dichotomy in the category tree in Australia, then do whatever you think best. It's just a driveby attempt to be helpful. Sorry that not all of it worked out ;) Elinruby (talk) 02:57, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- np,... JarrahTree 02:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Recent comment
Hi, Elinruby. I hope this note finds you in good health and spirits. I just finished reading your comment here. Could I please impose upon you to provide diffs showing where you say I:
- "... lied to an administrator when I complained about this...", and also
- "He also told the administrator that I didn't want any other point of view in the article ...
I just want to be sure I'm addressing the correct instances when I post my responses, and when I have uninvolved administrators carefully examine and evaluate each allegation, I want to be sure to point them to the correct exchange. That was such a long time ago, and some of our discussions were quite lengthy, I admit I'm now a bit foggy on the details. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:44, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Ethereum
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Cleanup Barnstar Award
The Cleanup Barnstar | ||
For considerable work on the Shooting of James Boyd from Activist (talk) 09:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC) |
Please comment on Talk:Haiti–United States relations
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Vid for you
Panel: “Clinton Scandal Update – Emails and the Clinton Foundation” → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsgapaYCs40
In response to the revelations about the pay-to-play scandal tied to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s non-state.gov email system and the Clinton Foundation, Judicial Watch hosted an educational panel discussion: “Clinton Scandal Update – Emails and the Clinton Foundation” on September 29, 2016. Panelists include author of the New York Times best-seller Clinton Cash and President of Government Accountability Institute Peter Schweizer; Joe diGenova, former U.S. Attorney, Independent Counsel and founding partner of the Washington, D.C., law firm diGenova & Toensing; and Chris Farrell, director of investigations and research at Judicial Watch. Moderator will be Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. --87.159.120.181 (talk) 12:18, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Putin
I'm glad you're paying attention to Putin, etc. I just looked at the article for Neil Bush and was astounded to discover that it hadn't been updated in maybe ten years and was referring to what Boris Berezovsky was doing a decade ago as if he were still alive. Is nobody minding the store? Activist (talk) 06:37, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
In many cases no. It has been some time since I looked at Putin's article, actually, although he came up with reference to the Panama Papers. Elinruby (talk) 03:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Sketch
I've just gotten home after driving about 2,400 miles and not getting enough sleep. Looked at the article and am glad I didn't waste more than minutes while I was gone on what appears to be a lost cause. It seems akin to finding oneself in the middle of a troll feeding frenzy. If I do get time to spare, I'll see if I can figure out the best way to involve arbitration or administrative remedies. Activist (talk) 04:46, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
- right now he is arguing that the picture of the knife is ok as a citation on the no original research board. I am taking a break from the article, but I will be back Elinruby (talk) 04:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
- I've got to run to town for a couple of hours, but I've been unable to devote the time the situation here demands. I have to admire your perseverance in the matter. Before I response to the bizarre conduct, I wonder if you could answer one question. Supposedly, the responding officers in the JBS situation became aware of his violent history at some point before his tragic homicide. Do you know if or when that was the case? Thanks so much. Activist (talk) 17:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
- I moved to NPOV since nobody answered at the OR noticeboard. Several of officers have testified that they did. They repeatedly say he was dangerous because he was mentally ill. (Sandy and Perez for a start) Let me see if I still have the link up tp Jason Carpenter's testimony, for example. Elinruby (talk)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLYb5ueFm8U )0:38 and following says he was not being reasonable, which is not quite the same thing. I'll post refs here as I come across them tho. Elinruby (talk) 07:25, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
- There was some stuff about the CAD messages. These are flawed tho. For example, there is mention of an officer getting a broken nose, but we don't know if he punched her or this was collateral damage in the scuffle. The "citizen" he got into a fight with was at a pretty rough soup kichen in downtown, and there is no telling what happened there. I still cannot find any charges for these incidents. I think it is important that Mikal Monette testified that schizophrenics can't stand to be touched. Boyd did not pull a knife until they tried to pat him down. @Activist: 02:11, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLYb5ueFm8U )0:38 and following says he was not being reasonable, which is not quite the same thing. I'll post refs here as I come across them tho. Elinruby (talk) 07:25, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
- I moved to NPOV since nobody answered at the OR noticeboard. Several of officers have testified that they did. They repeatedly say he was dangerous because he was mentally ill. (Sandy and Perez for a start) Let me see if I still have the link up tp Jason Carpenter's testimony, for example. Elinruby (talk)
- I've got to run to town for a couple of hours, but I've been unable to devote the time the situation here demands. I have to admire your perseverance in the matter. Before I response to the bizarre conduct, I wonder if you could answer one question. Supposedly, the responding officers in the JBS situation became aware of his violent history at some point before his tragic homicide. Do you know if or when that was the case? Thanks so much. Activist (talk) 17:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Archive at Talk:Shooting of James Boyd
Hey, I just temporarily unarchived it. What happened was that 290K of stuff makes the archive page itself too bulky. I'm archiving a part of it manually right now. For the rest, I propose letting the bot run as it automatically divides it into chunks and properly archives it (it's going to run in like 12 hours or so). --Lemongirl942 (talk) 16:34, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
- thank you for the help. This is a piece of wikignoming that II am not very familiar with. I am just getting lost in all these indents. Trying to introduce some clarity for all of our sanities. Please feel free to help as the urge strikes. I just don't think there's much point in me trying to explain original research; he is sure I am wrong and you know what? if I am, fine as far as I am concerned. I just identified about four topics that should really be updates to another article but the other article is not there. Without dealing with all the other shooting and lawsuits in the pipeline. It looks like someone else needs to look at the original research questions and if necessary explain them to Beany. In any event, I'm done trying, at least for now. Elinruby (talk) 18:32, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Clinton Foundation
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Duplicate categories
When you want to create a new category, please make sure first that no equivalent category or categories already exist. I have redirected Category:Churches and monasteries in France to Category:Churches in France; Category:Monasteries in France also exists already. Any article that describes both a church and a monastery should be placed in both of these existing categories; see WP:CAT. Thanks. —swpbT 18:52, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Singapore
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- Oh lol, I was the one who started this particular RfC. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 11:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- my sympathy, @Lemongirl942:; I just took a look at the thing and ... yeah, good luck with that. It does always amaze me how SPAs always push to the point of making what they are doing really obvious, and yes, this does seem like that's what you've got. If you still need a hand I guess I could wander over there and opine; I hadn't looked at the RfC yet because I know next to nothing about the place, but I agree that that sentence in the lead would have me looking around for the PR people. It appears to me that you have a consensus semi-going over there, although I haven't looked at the actual talk page so I don't actually know how bad the POV-pushing is. I do get the flavor of it though. Elinruby (talk) 11:57, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your kind words. I actually took a break from that page due to burnout and wikistress. There are now a bunch of SPA/Meatpuppets who are trying to vote on the RFC and retain a puffed up version of the article which somehow is heavily biased. Basically, they want to leave out anything bad about Singapore. Oh, and a few days back a dodgy account actually took me to ANI for apparently "stifling dissent" at Talk:Singapore. I couldn't help but laugh. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 12:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- AGF has a lot to answer for sometimes. I still have my guy lecturing me on how NPOV means he can introduce material arguing with something the prosecutor said. On some point that nobody cares about but him, and even assuming he is right, *you and I* would't get a check for $250 and a couple of days off if *we* shot someone, grumble. But bottom line, she did say it in her opening statement at the trial, so it's in the scope of the article, and he, he thinks it makes the defendants look bad. So *he* is hot to make the point that time off after a shooting is the latest thing in law enforcement and A Good Thing. But nobody else has made this point -- and he can't understand that when you speak as wikipedia you don't say "the prosecutor said this but she is an idiot". Since the article is unfinished due to the time we are spending on this, I 've just started working on a rewrite in draft space. and blowing off steam plowing through some ugly machine translations... Elinruby (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your kind words. I actually took a break from that page due to burnout and wikistress. There are now a bunch of SPA/Meatpuppets who are trying to vote on the RFC and retain a puffed up version of the article which somehow is heavily biased. Basically, they want to leave out anything bad about Singapore. Oh, and a few days back a dodgy account actually took me to ANI for apparently "stifling dissent" at Talk:Singapore. I couldn't help but laugh. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 12:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- my sympathy, @Lemongirl942:; I just took a look at the thing and ... yeah, good luck with that. It does always amaze me how SPAs always push to the point of making what they are doing really obvious, and yes, this does seem like that's what you've got. If you still need a hand I guess I could wander over there and opine; I hadn't looked at the RfC yet because I know next to nothing about the place, but I agree that that sentence in the lead would have me looking around for the PR people. It appears to me that you have a consensus semi-going over there, although I haven't looked at the actual talk page so I don't actually know how bad the POV-pushing is. I do get the flavor of it though. Elinruby (talk) 11:57, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Russian financial crisis (2014–present)
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A barnstar for you!
![]() |
The Writer's Barnstar |
For making Battle of Sayo better than a stub. In veritas (talk) 01:56, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
Remember to sign your posts!
Just a friendly reminder to sign your posts, you forgot to do that here. NightFire19 (talk) 18:00, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
@NightFire19: article completely abandoned; have been deciphering horrible machine translation all by myself. Didn't know anyone was paying attention. Feel free to add to article, which is beginning to approach legibility after MUCH work, but is still very incomplete Elinruby (talk) 05:23, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah the article was in much worse condition when I first found it, so bad that I nominated it for deletion. It's getting better though, edit by edit. :) NightFire19 (talk) 21:39, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
wusa9
although in some cases these mistakes were later corrected, it was usually long after the incorrect information had already done damage, and because the propagation-vector tended to be a personal social media username controlled by a single person, may not have been noticed or corrected at all.... political staffers have been fired for spreading fake news that in part originated with legitimate reporting by WUSA-TV containing errata ....
- gimme details. Elinruby (talk) 06:41, 23 December 2016 (UTC) moved here from draftspace
- It's in the fake news website article, see the refs in the subsection on incoming National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, whose son (of the same name) was fired from the Trump transition team over the spread of 'fake news' stories, see the refs attached thereto. FlynnJr added #pizzagate hashtag, atttached to a retweet of somebody else that was quoting DC police as saying the armed incident had "nothing to do with" the pizzagate conspiracy theory, which in fact was a direct quote (although unattributed in the FlynnJr tweet and in the person he retweeted) from some WUSA-TV reporter, who was doing stream-of-consciousness tweets on the official twitter-feed of the TV station during the initial press conf on December 4th. There was a "correction" on the WUSA-TV twitter-feed by December 6th, which was the day FlynnJr was fired if memory serves, albeit the correction did not specifically back-reference the earlier errata. The cops were just being cautious obviously, and almost certainly said something to the WUSA reporter like 'there is not any non-circumstantial evidence at this point in time to connect the alleged suspect with pizzagate' which thanks to the character-limit of tweets AND to the sensationalism aspect the journalist just paraphrased it as "nothing to do with" pizzagate and dropped the presumed-to-exist qualifiers entirely. Or maybe the cops on the scene were not as cautious as they ought to have been when speaking to the press, and gave no qualifiers. (The first tweet about the incident was that according to the cops it was unlikely to be a terrorist incident, so you can imagine the reporter's mindset in asking questions -- seek the maximum amount of gore and fear which can be legally communicated under the restrictions on libel and slander, because that is what our viewers want.) Of course, outside the twitterverse and back in reality, a few hours later there WAS exactly such evidence... in the form of a confession... as the old saying goes, though, a rumour travels around the world whilst the truth is still putting on rainboots. 47.222.203.135 (talk) 14:42, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Dada and the 20s
Just take WP:BOLD, mon ami: just edit the article and put in what you think is the best thing. Il faut cultiver notre jardin, be bold. Si Trew (talk) 12:18, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Origin of the Romanians
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I just expanded Scandal:_How_"Gotcha"_Politics_Is_Destroying_America which had no sources. Do you have time to work on scraper site which is in the same tenuous situation? I can dump you some of the sources I found. If not no worries, of course. Happy new year, 47.222.203.135 (talk) 20:58, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- Yes I can at least look at scraper site.Elinruby (talk) 07:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
- Appreciated, danke, Talk:Scraper_site#possibly_useful_sources has a couple extant bluelinks and not-yet-utilized sources. 47.222.203.135 (talk) 08:12, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
In 2011 and 2014, the Government has held illegal credit operations from no transfer of funds to the national financial system entities controlled by the State.
sentence does not parse. Is it trying to say that transfers between sovereign fund accounts are illegal? Elinruby (talk) 21:58, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
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Regarding We The People
CNN already reports on it being continued by the Trump administration. Huon (talk) 03:18, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
@Huon: thanks
Please comment on Talk:Club Car
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Please comment on Talk:MAKS Air Show
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A barnstar for you!
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The Rosetta Barnstar |
For your work cleaning up articles listed at WP:PNT. Cheers. Lectonar (talk) 09:39, 24 February 2017 (UTC) |
Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports
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situation irrégulière
Went over William Bourdon and made some changes to one section, paying particular attention to your html comments.
- situation irrégulière – a non-specific term meaning that "something is wrong with the administrative or legal status of a foreigner in France"; could be their visa is expired, or they don't have one, or they're not allowed to work, or not with that type of visa, or they should have a carte de séjour and don't, or they shouldn't be in the country at all, etc. I usually just word it based on context, and if there's no guidance from that, then I say something vague like, "without the proper papers" or "papers not in order" or similar.
- locaux – "premises", "headquarters"; even "building(s)" or "complex"; or where they "are housed" or "based" or "hosted"; and so on
- proche (n.) – as you had it: close friend (also, 'next of kin' and similar expressions in other contexts)
- plainte contre X – think algebra, the "unknown quantity"; basically, charges (or a lawsuit) against people unknown; a standard French formulation. (But watch for another 'X', meaning they're an alumnus of the École polytechnique; but this is not about a complaint against an alumnus of Polytechnique!)
Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 23:00, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Mathglot: I don't remember what questions I left as comments that would have led you to explain this to me, but erm, I speak French really well, you know. I did all my schooling in French before I went too college. However I find myself fumbling when it comes to specialized vocabulary, and as you may have noticed I tend to over-document when unsure of something. I was probably concerned about special meanings in the legal terms because French law has some pretty foreign concepts in it and I had to feel those out by myself; none of those articles existed until I translated them and this one was early on (and I admittedly should have come back to it. Thank you for finding me that picture.) Elinruby (talk) 11:13, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
- I was talking about the html comments that you left in the code about translations you weren't sure of. There were several such. In the second version for example, for the original: Il est proche d'associations d'aide aux étrangers en situation irrégulière, notamment la Cimade... you added your translation, along with an appended comment:
That's one of the "html comments" I was responding to above, since you seemed to be inviting such a response by the embedded comments. Since they were still there when I got around to looking at the article and fixing it, I thought you'd want to know. Mathglot (talk) 18:09, 10 April 2017 (UTC)He has ties to unusual traveller's aid associations, notably the Cimade...<!-- association d'aide aux étrangers irréguliers, unclear if foreigners or associations are irregular -->
- I was talking about the html comments that you left in the code about translations you weren't sure of. There were several such. In the second version for example, for the original: Il est proche d'associations d'aide aux étrangers en situation irrégulière, notamment la Cimade... you added your translation, along with an appended comment:
- @Mathglot: I remember leaving them but I don't remember what they were. If they are now resolved then fine, you did right to remove them. On the one you mention above I think I was wondering if the situation irregulière referred to (guessing) lapsed visas or maybe refugee or asylum claims and whether this was the focus of that non-profit. Shrug. I am sure you did the right thing; I've seen a lot of your edits. I'll check it out one of these days but I just got back to the Dilma Rousseff stuff and don't want to stop -- I really is a huge egregious BLP problem that strictly speaking I should have deleted, except that a lot of work had already gone into documenting the other side of the story and the event is too big not to cover. Elinruby (talk) 18:19, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Mathglot: actually cough "association" is feminine so it does mean the foreigners not the association are irregular, doh. And yes you are right, this is exactly the sort of article where I appreciate someone letting me know Elinruby (talk) 02:04, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
In this edit, you wrote:
- Formation -- this is a disambiguation page. I am guessing that something that was on the list was redirected here (?)
The page was overwritten in this edit by the "translation". (As I understand it, at the time most of these translations happened, the tool provided no warning whatsoever to its users that they'd be destroying an existing page.) All the CXT translation edits are tagged ContentTranslation so they stand out in the pages' histories; these are the edits that need to be checked, not the current versions of the pages, which will have often had their problems disguised by well-meaning copyeditors. —Cryptic 10:59, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Cryptic: OK -- but this is no longer the case, correct? Right now I am doing triage on what we might not want to delete. So if the overwrite was reverted -- and yes, there was a problem with the tool doing that at one point, although it is fixed now -- but point is, if the overwrite was fixed then the disambiguation page should not be on this list of things people want to delete. Or if I am still looking at this wrong, please explain :) Meanwhile, I know that supposedly these pages are riddled with error, but I am not finding this to be the case. Some of the translations are in fact bad enough and about obscure enough topics however that I do think they should be nuked. Elinruby (talk) 11:06, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/CXT/Pages to review isn't so much a "list of things people want to delete"; it's a list of all CXT edits in the affected timespan. The reason Formation was still on it is simply that nobody had removed it yet: the editor who reverted it wasn't doing it in the context of it being a bad translation, but because he was watching RecentChanges or Formation itself and saw it being blanked. (Formation wouldn't be eligible for deletion in any case, since there are non-machine-translated versions in the history.) —Cryptic 11:16, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Cryptic: re ineligible,that's true, I'd forgotten the proposed change to the rule. But there *is* in fact a proposal to nuke this entire list. It's on the Administrator noticeboard and on the WP:PNT page. Elinruby (talk) 11:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
- This is why translation is hard. In French, it means nothing more than a group. But not group theory. That is why translation is hard. The "dude" who told you was right. The common conversation was in Latin, so I assume you know that. Si Trew (talk) 23:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
note to self - Quebec stuff that needs fixing
also orphan Drought_cycle_(Brazilian_literature)
April 2017
Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Talk:Impeachment of Dilma Rousseff. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Saturnalia0 (talk) 15:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Saturnalia0: I have no idea what you're talking about. You have not been in the extensive discussions and didn't answer any of the posts I made will doing this work. Just reverted the work. Seems pretty disruptive to me. And you claim I need to seek consensus. Where have you been? And you say I claim ownership, when you are doing your best to block me from improving the article. Listen here Mr 4-month-old account that knows all the rules, don't make me laugh Elinruby (talk) 16:03, 13 April 2017 (UTC)