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File:Mother Nature, Summer (Unsplash).jpg|Flowers |
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File:Women in tribal village, Umaria district, India.jpg|India |
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Please feel free to add any additional images that may be considered, so a consensus can be built. |
Please feel free to add any additional images that may be considered, so a consensus can be built. |
Revision as of 00:55, 9 May 2019
For reference: Manual of Style: Lead Image
Lead image
Here are some potential images for the lead of the Woman article:
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former lead image
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Ao dai
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dancing
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scarf
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hut
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Arabic filename
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smiling
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Sideways with bandana
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Pitchfork
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Bread store
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Veil
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Braid
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William Blake-Europe Supported By Africa and America 1796
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Ramallah woman
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Tai chi
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Flowers
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India
Please feel free to add any additional images that may be considered, so a consensus can be built.
Criteria
There is no perfect image that will satisfy everyone, but we can continue to improve our choice. The consensus is generally that we'd like a natural, average woman.
Things considered in past discussions:
- Gallery vs single image (MOS favors single image)
- Real woman rather than artistic representation
- Nudity level
- Full body photo vs less
- Race
- Age
- Facial expression
- Culture and cultural signifiers
- Activity- whether inactive, laboring, playing, posed
- Attractiveness
- Class
- Stereotypes, gender expression, NPOV
- Body hair
- Props
- Modifications (piercings, tattoos, makeup)
- Unknown vs celebrity
- Color vs grayscale
Kolya Butternut (talk) 05:00, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
- My preferences on the criteria would be:
- Single image
- Real woman
- Clothed – a "top" and a "bottom" but I don't really care what the clothing is; I think most people, in most of the world, most of the time, wear a "top" and a "bottom" (and footwear) of some kind
- "Most" of the body (not just a headshot, but it doesn't have to be the entire body)
- Preferably ambiguous race, or mixed race, what I'm trying to get at is "average" race, though there is no such thing really
- Average age, or middle-age, not very young, not very old (apparent age 30–70, say)
- Happy or neutral facial expression
- Cultural signifiers not overwhelming (I think it'll be impossible to find a picture of an actual human without some cultural signifiers)
- The activity should not be the focus of the image; I would say not laboring, not posed; standing, sitting, walking are OK; dancing is OK with me too, though I realize that kind of violates my own principles here
- Average attractiveness – attractiveness (or unattractiveness) should not be distracting (so not exceptionally beautiful or ugly)
- Average class or indeterminate class... nobody in a top hat or rags
- I'm not sure exactly what is meant by "stereotypes, gender expression, NPOV" ... but it's not important to me whether the woman is wearing a skirt or pants, or makeup (or not), or whether the woman is a trans woman or not (and I don't think you can tell that from a photograph), but it should not be a picture of a man in drag, even if he looks like a woman :-)
- Body hair would not be a relevant consideration for me because of the clothed requirement
- Props should not be distracting, but are not necessarily a deal-breaker for me
- Modifications should also not be to a distracting extreme... tattoos and piercings in and of themselves don't bother me, but not to the point where it's a main focus of the image; so, a full-face tattoo would probably be too much
- Preferably not a recognized celebrity
- Definitely must be color, that's probably my most important "requirement"
- Thanks to everyone contributing to this discussion! Leviv ich 19:15, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
- I basically feel the same was as Levivich above, although:
- Footwear may not be necessary;
- I might prefer a woman younger than 60;
- I agree cultural signifiers shouldn't be overwhelming, but I don't think they should necessarily be avoided;
- I feel the same way about activity, but the context of an activity within the photo might be ok;
- Not extremely feminine or masculine;
- No to light makeup
- Body hair, such on legs and armpits, would be ok if not distracting;
- I forgot to mention time period. I think it should be current or at least not noticeably dated.
- Kolya Butternut (talk) 23:06, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Woman_Listening_to_Walkman.jpg/110px-Woman_Listening_to_Walkman.jpg)
- I'm not concerned at all about the woman's race, class, or attractiveness: I think the benefit of choosing a photograph over a painting is that it depicts a single individual, who happens to have some particular set of attributes, but isn't in any way intended to be an ideal for all women. So all my pickiness involves the composition of the picture and what the woman is doing, but not the basic fact of who she is.
- I think that the picture should convey some basic information about women, like "women have faces", "women have bodies", and "women wear clothes", so I'd be opposed to, say, an action shot that caught only a sliver of her face.
- I think that there shouldn't be anything else in the image which might possibly mislead someone who'd somehow never seen a woman: so no pictures of women talking with men or carrying children, although there are many beautiful ones on commons. I had been thinking this meant no action shots as well, but I kind of like the one of the middle-aged woman doing tai chi.
- I was thinking it would be good to avoid mugging for the camera, cheesy poses, and staged stockphotos, so I looked through lots of the street photography on commons. But it occurred to me that it would be pretty weird to wake up one day and find a picture of yourself that you never knew had been taken stuck in a prominent place on Wikipedia as an example of your gender. So I would prefer one where it's clearly not a creepershot, and she looks like she knows she's being photographed.
- Datedness: please let's not choose someone with stereotypical "hip millennial" fashion and makeup. (google image search) Other than that, I'm not worried about when the photo was taken. (I think the Ramallah woman one is quite old, but not unsuitable). Cheers, gnu57 21:03, 5 May 2019 (UTC)