Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk | contribs) →Infobox picture - a more comprehensive picture is needed: congratulations... NOT. |
SilentResident (talk | contribs) |
||
Line 112: | Line 112: | ||
:::Done! it took me five full hours to complete a London-styled fully interactable collage of Thessaloniki pictures. Not only the understanding of the coding was very time-consuming, but the lack of good pictures on Wikimedia Commons, restricted the available options for a good and aesthetically beautiful collage. But finally, it is done, using Adobe Photoshop CS6. Here we go. You can mouse-over the collage's pictures and a tooltip will pop up with the place's name. Furthermore, clicking any of the collage's pictures, will send you to the corresponding article. As a matter of fact, Thessalonica is the first Greek city to ever get a fully interactable collage! [[Athens]]'s collage will be upgraded to become interactable if I have some energy later. Enjoy! And please tell me what do you think about this work thus far? -- [[User:SilentResident|'''S<small>ILENT</small>''']][[User talk:SilentResident|'''R<small>ESIDENT</small>''']] 10:52, 28 March 2017 (UTC) |
:::Done! it took me five full hours to complete a London-styled fully interactable collage of Thessaloniki pictures. Not only the understanding of the coding was very time-consuming, but the lack of good pictures on Wikimedia Commons, restricted the available options for a good and aesthetically beautiful collage. But finally, it is done, using Adobe Photoshop CS6. Here we go. You can mouse-over the collage's pictures and a tooltip will pop up with the place's name. Furthermore, clicking any of the collage's pictures, will send you to the corresponding article. As a matter of fact, Thessalonica is the first Greek city to ever get a fully interactable collage! [[Athens]]'s collage will be upgraded to become interactable if I have some energy later. Enjoy! And please tell me what do you think about this work thus far? -- [[User:SilentResident|'''S<small>ILENT</small>''']][[User talk:SilentResident|'''R<small>ESIDENT</small>''']] 10:52, 28 March 2017 (UTC) |
||
:::: And congratulations, from now on I can no longer see where Thessaloniki is when I load the page, because your new collage has pushed the first ''useful'' element of the infobox, the locator map, off the screen. Great work. People keep saying that the purpose of infoboxes is to provide the most useful information ''at a glance''. Now you managed to make it provide any useful information only at the third glance, after scrolling around with the mouse. What a fantastic improvement of the article. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 10:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC) |
:::: And congratulations, from now on I can no longer see where Thessaloniki is when I load the page, because your new collage has pushed the first ''useful'' element of the infobox, the locator map, off the screen. Great work. People keep saying that the purpose of infoboxes is to provide the most useful information ''at a glance''. Now you managed to make it provide any useful information only at the third glance, after scrolling around with the mouse. What a fantastic improvement of the article. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 10:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC) |
||
::::: That's [[nitpicking]]... :( All the metropolitan articles in Europe are like that, my dear but I don't remember you complaining about having to scroll down abit to find [[Istanbul]] or [[Athens]]'a locations on their respective articles, do I? It it bothers you too much, then buy a bigger [[Computer monitor]] and... voila! Your problem is solved. -- [[User:SilentResident|'''S<small>ILENT</small>''']][[User talk:SilentResident|'''R<small>ESIDENT</small>''']] 11:15, 28 March 2017 (UTC) |
Revision as of 11:15, 28 March 2017
![]() | Thessaloniki was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Thessaloniki is also known in English as" VS "Thessaloniki is also known as"
Can someone enlighten me why is the "Thessaloniki is also known in English as" used instead of the "Thessaloniki is also known as"? Aren't, more or less, the other languages (besides the English language) such as the Spanish, the Portuguese and French languages, sharing the same alternate names for that city with the English? Or am I missing something here? --SilentResident (talk) 03:55, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
It is a custom practice on other toponyme pages to add alternate names. At least names of the place in local languages, different from the official one, should be added.
In this specific case you should add the Bulgarian/Macedonian name Солун, as well as the Aromanian name Sărună (or its Megleno-Romanian variant Săruna). I don't want to do it myself, because I see that someone placed an interdiction. And I don't want to enter an edit war, as I only accidentally visited this page and I am not especially interested in it.
But I think it is fair to inform about the existence of other local names and this doesn't make Thessalonike less Greek nor "Jewish-Turkish". --Sorin.Botezat (talk) 22:21, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
Update: Moreover in this case it seems that there exists a Greek version of the name Σαλονίκη (see the French page), which is at the root of alternate forms existing in many European languages (including Bulgarian and (A)romanian). --Sorin.Botezat (talk) 22:31, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Thessaloniki. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110721080738/http://www.fm100.gr/portal/index.php/company/histcom/67-histcom to http://www.fm100.gr/portal/index.php/company/histcom/67-histcom
- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120220024127/http://www.thpa.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=95&lang=en to http://www.thpa.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=95&lang=en
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:21, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
New book
New book about Jewish Thessaloniki circa 1912: Jewish Salonica: Between the Ottoman Empire and Modern Greece by Devin E. Naar, 2016, Stanford University Press. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 15:46, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
English pronunciation
How do you pronounce the city's name in English? wikt:Thessaloniki doesn't include the pronunciation, either. --37.205.63.157 (talk) 12:57, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
Infobox picture - a more comprehensive picture is needed
Hello. May I ask why the White Tower is the sole picture in the Infobox for Thessaloniki? It is strange that a symbol of the city's Ottoman past, a landmark known for being used during the Ottoman period for incarceration and torture and a place where many people died, to be the sole picture for a significant city of that level.
As far as I know, Thessalonica is a metropolis of almost 800.000 citizens, and one of Europe's oldest but continously-inhabited cities, with a very rich and diverse history spanning 2.300 years and is blessed with lots of landmarks and monuments from various historical periods.
Thessalonica was an important commercial and administrative center already since the Hellenistic and Roman periods, and even served as the co-reigning capital of the Byzantine Empire. Now it is the third largest economic and educational center after Athens and Istanbul. I can't help but wonder how a significant cultural city isn't given a more comprehensive collection of pictures in the infobox. A collection of pictures that reflects its rich heritage and prominence.
I'm fully aware that the White Tower is today the most notable landmark of the city in the same sense the Parthenon is for Athens, or the Colosseum for Rome, or the Big Ben for London, or the Eiffel Tower for Paris, etc. However, this insistence in displaying only a PARTICULAR landmark and nothing more, despite it being a prominent city in the region, and one of the most important historical, logistical and cultural centers in Southeastern Europe, can not be justified.
This has bothered me a lot. I looked to the issue in depth and I have conducted some research on the Wikipedia, just to see if this strange case of "One-Picture policy" is adopted for other cities and metropolises in Europe, America and the world. Checked cities that are not capitals, but still are too significant for them to be represented in their infobox with mere single pictures. And so, I have discovered that they display more comprehensive collections of pictures in their infoboxes. All of them except Thessalonica. Here are their links for everyone's convenience:
Turkey's Istanbul, Italy's Milan, France's Marseille, USA's New York and Los Angeles, United Kingdom's Manchester, Germany's Hamburg, Spain's Barcelona, and Portugal's Porto. Notice how all these metropolises or cities are either the largest, or second largest cities in their respective countries, and yet every one of them has multiple pictures on their infobox.
I went a step further and checked even some of the smaller (but still significant) cities and towns in Southeastern Europe, such as Serbia's Novi Sad, Bulgaria's Plovdiv, Albania's Durres and Cypru's Limassol, and in my surprise, even these got comprehensive image collections on their infoboxes! I fail to understand why Thessalonica's infobox has to stick with a mere picture of a former Ottoman Prison and ignore its Roman, Byzantine and modern landmarks. I am aware of the past consensus, I read the talk archives, but, to be honest this is very problematic.
I shall clarify that I am not asking for the removal or replacement of the White Tower. We should keep the White Tower in the infobox picture, but we should expand it to include other notable landmarks as well. What do you say? Some suggestions by me include: the Arch of Galerius and Rotunda, the Thessaloniki Concert Hall, the Thessaloniki Science Center and Technology Museum, the OTE Tower, among others. But of course, if anyone here has any better suggestions, feel free to share them here. Any? -- SILENTRESIDENT 01:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- SilentResident - You always create a picture like they have on London which IMHO would be better - If the area has more than one notable landmark then they should be highlighted as a picture if that makes sense, I don't see why that shouldn't happen so go for it, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 02:10, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Davey2010 - Good point! Thanks. I am aware that the cities of the United Kingdom have such beautiful and comprehensive collections of pictures and I always wanted the same for the Greek cities... Of course, availability of landmarks/buildings/places/monuments is not the problem here; Thessalonica is a very rich city when it comes to featuring places of interest. Just, the previous editorial consensus opposed this idea and preferred a single landmark (White Tower only) instead. And I remember that any past attempts towards that proposed direction have been reverted... -- SILENTRESIDENT 02:52, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
For the record, I remain opposed to the collage thing and very much prefer a good, esthetically interesting photograph of a single, well-known and representative landmark, the way Wikipedia articles used to have them in the good old days. Collages provide very little real information, tend to take up far too much space (pushing the actual, informative parts of the infobox below the screen), and reduce the visual landmarks of a place to the esthetics of a cheap picture postcard. Collages are a recent fad and nothing more; I find it intensely annoying to find people arguing for them on the basis of a mere "other articles are doing it, so we should be doing it too", or even that naive "more-is-better" logic of "if other places have many pictures, this place deserves more pictures too". What a braindead argument. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:46, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- To be honest, a slightly increased infobox length is not a concern for me, especially on articles about cities. Big cities naturally have lengthier infoboxes than small towns and villages, due to containing more information, and this is unavoidable. Don't you think? If Thessalonica was a mere small village or a little town, a single but aesthetically interesting photo for it couldn't be a problem; it could in fact be nice thing. Most small villages and towns in Greece have a single photo anyways, usually a panoramic one. Example of this are the towns of Ioannina, Florina, and Kastoria. But here, we are talking not about a mere small village or town. We are talking about a modern metropolis of Southeastern Europe which spans the entire end of the Thermaic Gulf and its infobox is only displayiong a... former prison tower (!) and nothing more. Not even a panoramic photo of that city. Nothing more than just a prison by the sea. Frankly, this isn't very representative photo, Future Perfect. Like how Davey2010 has suggested, if the city has more than one notable landmark, we can make a nice and beautiful collage and use London as an example for its creation. It is time for Thessalonica to get its own collage, in line with what was done for all the other cities and metropolises in the world, such as Florence, Venice, Hague, Philadelphia, Frankfurt and Hamburg, for obvious reasons. Thessalonica can't be an exception to this. -- SILENTRESIDENT 12:01, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- If you'd simply acknowledged that this is ultimately a mere matter of taste, we could peacefully agree to disagree – you prefer a collage, I prefer a single photograph, we've both said why, now let's see what others think. Fine. But as long as you are spouting "arguments" of the kind of "Thessalonica can't be an exception!" and "we have to do it the same way it's done in other articles!", you'll find me vehemently contradicting you. These arguments, are simply false, wrong-headed and unacceptable. On Wikipedia, "other articles are following fad XYZ, so we have to follow fad XYZ too" is never, ever a valid argument. Also, stop obsessing about the fact that the tower was a former prison. Like it or not, it is the single best-known and most popular visual landmark of the city. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Of course you can have your own opinion on this, and I respect that. But to say that my argument is "other articles are following fad XYZ, so we have to follow fad XYZ too" shows that you have not understood the reason I am referring to other metropolises in Europe and the world. I am not referring to London or Paris just for the sake of copy-patterning their infoboxes to Thessalonica. I am talking about the reasons behind the need to use collages in articles about big metropolises. Like I mentioned above: Thessalonica's reasons to use collages, is no different from the reasons that led the editors to do the same to the other cities in Wikipedia: given the city's rice cultural and historical diversity, many landmarks and architectures, a mere Ottoman prison is by no means a comprehensive picture for portraying the entire metropolis on its infobox. Period. The other metropolises in Wikipedia use Collages, not because it "is ultimately a mere matter of taste" as you have claimed, but because it is ultimately a matter of necessity. Like I said above, if we want to make a good collage, there are examples of how this was done in other articles. I am looking at the Wikimedia Commons for some nice pictures of Thessalonica's landmarks and monuments that can be used in a possible collage alongside the White Tower and I could like to hear more opinions on this in meantime. -- SILENTRESIDENT 12:52, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Personally I prefer collages as it shows more landmarks than just one, One can say they believe one landmark is more notable than another and then in a few years someone else could say it and thus constantly change the image although as far I know that's never happened, but yeah I simply prefer them as they obviously show more than one landmark,
- SilentResident It might be a better idea if you converted this to an RFC as just on its own I don't think you'll get many comments at all, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 13:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Future Perfect, you are saying that this is a matter of fashion. OK. Les have a look on what Fashion is:
- Fashion is a popular style or practice, especially in clothing, footwear, accessories, makeup, body, or furniture. Fashion is a distinctive and often constant trend in the style in which a person dresses. It is the prevailing styles in behaviour and the newest creations of textile designers. Because the more technical term costume is regularly linked to the term "fashion", the use of the former has been relegated to special senses like fancy dress or masquerade wear, while "fashion" generally means clothing, including the study of it. Although aspects of fashion can be feminine or masculine, some trends are androgynous.
- Let us see what the prevailing style is for the infoboxes about cities and metropolises in Wikipedia. What do we see? Collages from New York City to Tokyo, from Vienna to Antalya, from Venice to Nicosia, from Saint Petersburg to Rio de Janeiro. If you want to speak of fashion, then you should acknowledge that the collages are in fact the fashion. :) -- SILENTRESIDENT 13:36, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- If you'd simply acknowledged that this is ultimately a mere matter of taste, we could peacefully agree to disagree – you prefer a collage, I prefer a single photograph, we've both said why, now let's see what others think. Fine. But as long as you are spouting "arguments" of the kind of "Thessalonica can't be an exception!" and "we have to do it the same way it's done in other articles!", you'll find me vehemently contradicting you. These arguments, are simply false, wrong-headed and unacceptable. On Wikipedia, "other articles are following fad XYZ, so we have to follow fad XYZ too" is never, ever a valid argument. Also, stop obsessing about the fact that the tower was a former prison. Like it or not, it is the single best-known and most popular visual landmark of the city. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
I think a collage is a good idea. I would suggest the following for the collage (not necessarily in this order): The waterfront, White Tower, one of the paleochristian monuments (e.g. St. Demetrios, or the Rotunda), Helexpo center, and perhaps Ladadika. I think the key would be to keep it at 4-5 images max. The problem with many collages is that they try to cram too many images in one collage, with the result being an awful collage of 7-8 tiny images. But as long as wee keep the number of images reasonable, I don't see a problem. Khirurg (talk) 18:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Actually that's an excellent idea, Khirurg! I find this a good suggestion. This way, the impact to the infobox should be minimal, and keep it from being overcluttered. -- SILENTRESIDENT 19:21, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
- Done! it took me five full hours to complete a London-styled fully interactable collage of Thessaloniki pictures. Not only the understanding of the coding was very time-consuming, but the lack of good pictures on Wikimedia Commons, restricted the available options for a good and aesthetically beautiful collage. But finally, it is done, using Adobe Photoshop CS6. Here we go. You can mouse-over the collage's pictures and a tooltip will pop up with the place's name. Furthermore, clicking any of the collage's pictures, will send you to the corresponding article. As a matter of fact, Thessalonica is the first Greek city to ever get a fully interactable collage! Athens's collage will be upgraded to become interactable if I have some energy later. Enjoy! And please tell me what do you think about this work thus far? -- SILENTRESIDENT 10:52, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
- And congratulations, from now on I can no longer see where Thessaloniki is when I load the page, because your new collage has pushed the first useful element of the infobox, the locator map, off the screen. Great work. People keep saying that the purpose of infoboxes is to provide the most useful information at a glance. Now you managed to make it provide any useful information only at the third glance, after scrolling around with the mouse. What a fantastic improvement of the article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
- That's nitpicking... :( All the metropolitan articles in Europe are like that, my dear but I don't remember you complaining about having to scroll down abit to find Istanbul or Athens'a locations on their respective articles, do I? It it bothers you too much, then buy a bigger Computer monitor and... voila! Your problem is solved. -- SILENTRESIDENT 11:15, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
- And congratulations, from now on I can no longer see where Thessaloniki is when I load the page, because your new collage has pushed the first useful element of the infobox, the locator map, off the screen. Great work. People keep saying that the purpose of infoboxes is to provide the most useful information at a glance. Now you managed to make it provide any useful information only at the third glance, after scrolling around with the mouse. What a fantastic improvement of the article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
- Done! it took me five full hours to complete a London-styled fully interactable collage of Thessaloniki pictures. Not only the understanding of the coding was very time-consuming, but the lack of good pictures on Wikimedia Commons, restricted the available options for a good and aesthetically beautiful collage. But finally, it is done, using Adobe Photoshop CS6. Here we go. You can mouse-over the collage's pictures and a tooltip will pop up with the place's name. Furthermore, clicking any of the collage's pictures, will send you to the corresponding article. As a matter of fact, Thessalonica is the first Greek city to ever get a fully interactable collage! Athens's collage will be upgraded to become interactable if I have some energy later. Enjoy! And please tell me what do you think about this work thus far? -- SILENTRESIDENT 10:52, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
- Actually that's an excellent idea, Khirurg! I find this a good suggestion. This way, the impact to the infobox should be minimal, and keep it from being overcluttered. -- SILENTRESIDENT 19:21, 27 March 2017 (UTC)