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I agree with Vzaak the section which keeps being [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_McKenna&oldid=589247908#Novelty_theory restored] is unsourced and [[WP:OR|original research]] and I agree that the views of McKenna are not being faithfully reported. I have listened to and read a lot of his work and and I have not heard him describe novelty theory in such a overly complex and incoherent manner, plus the section tells the reader little to do with how the theory was formulated or the mathematics underpinning it. In my opinion it is poorly written and confusing. I would argue that this is much more coherent and detailed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_McKenna&oldid=589204187 edit] However there is definitly some room in this edit for McKenna's speculations on what novelty theory meant in 'real terms' (i.e. 'the hyper dimensional object at the end of time' and how it was affecting the historical process, the planet, humans and culture) [[User:Screamliner|Screamliner]] ([[User talk:Screamliner|talk]]) 11:02, 5 January 2014 (UTC) |
I agree with Vzaak the section which keeps being [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_McKenna&oldid=589247908#Novelty_theory restored] is unsourced and [[WP:OR|original research]] and I agree that the views of McKenna are not being faithfully reported. I have listened to and read a lot of his work and and I have not heard him describe novelty theory in such a overly complex and incoherent manner, plus the section tells the reader little to do with how the theory was formulated or the mathematics underpinning it. In my opinion it is poorly written and confusing. I would argue that this is much more coherent and detailed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_McKenna&oldid=589204187 edit] However there is definitly some room in this edit for McKenna's speculations on what novelty theory meant in 'real terms' (i.e. 'the hyper dimensional object at the end of time' and how it was affecting the historical process, the planet, humans and culture) [[User:Screamliner|Screamliner]] ([[User talk:Screamliner|talk]]) 11:02, 5 January 2014 (UTC) |
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:[[User talk:Vzaak|vzaak]] is well-known for his anti-social behaviour: http://weilerpsiblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/the-wikipedia-battle-for-rupert-sheldrakes-biography/ |
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: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_McKenna&oldid=589204187 Your version] of the Novelty Theory section is full of tautologies and unsourced misconceptions: |
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:* "Novelty, in this context, can be thought of as newness, or increased activity and options." The number of options (degrees of freedom) is entropy, which McKenna defines as the opposite of novelty. |
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:*"The peaks in the graph represent the abstraction of 'stasis' or habitual stability, while the valleys represent novelty or change." A change can result in a decrease of novelty. So, '''novelty is not change'''. |
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: So, you are not qualified to edit this article, Screamliner. [[Special:Contributions/192.69.217.195|192.69.217.195]] ([[User talk:192.69.217.195|talk]]) 12:22, 5 January 2014 (UTC) |
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Reclaim Your Mind Video on YouTube
This video is being circulated widely right now (1/26/07) Could somone make reference to this video and what larger spoken word performance this came from? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARIG-BQRATs
- It was from his talk "scientific evolution and the archaic revivial" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZcWzQKs2j8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeuzzz (talk • contribs) 13:23, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Terence McKenna is properly described as an ethnobotanist
I see that in the most recent edit Plantdrew removed the characterization of McKenna as an ethnobotanist, presumably from ignorance as well as prejudice. McKenna, along with his then-wife Kathleen Harrison, founded Botanical Dimensions in 1985, whose stated aim was “to collect, protect, propagate and understand plants of ethno-medical significance and their lore.” See more on the BD website at http://botanicaldimensions.org/
Terence McKenna presented a 2-day seminar in San Francisco (which I attended) entitled "Ethnobotany and Shamanism" and which is preserved on 4 DVDs published by Sound Photosynthesis -- see their catalog of McKenna talks at http://www.soundphotosynthesis.com/Terence_Mckenna.html See also several YouTube clips of McKenna speaking on this subject.
As with the refusal by WP editors to characterize McKenna as a philosopher (see my comment above), this refusal is based on the false position that only someone who has published articles in one or more academic journals in some field should be acknowledged as a practitioner of research in that field. This is mere prejudice by WP editors which commonly afflicts WP articles, and is one reason why WP cannot be regarded as a reliable source of information. Its pretence to be an 'encyclopedia' is ludicrous. Only the foolish and ignorant ever cite WP as an authorative source. Peter Meyer (TWZ author) (talk) 08:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think it is entirely reasonable that someone must have "published articles in one or more academic journals in some field [to be] acknowledged as a practitioner of research in that field", although there may be occasionally be people active in a field with no publications in academic journals. For example, I'm not finding any academic papers authored by Kathleen Harrison, but I think it is fair to describe her as an ethnobotanist based on the projects Botanical Dimensions works on. I saw Dennis McKenna was missing from Category:Ethnobotanists and added him; it was pretty ridiculous that Terence was listed as an ethnobotanist and Dennis was not.
- And it's pretty ridiculous, considering how closely all three worked together in earlier years, to list Kathleen and Dennis as ethonobotanists but to refuse to grant this attribution to Terence. Please see my further remarks on Botanical Dimensions below. Peter Meyer (TWZ author) (talk) 06:09, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
- Clearly Terence was interested in ethnobotany, and his ex-wife and brother are fairly described as ethnobotanists, but I don't think Terence was an ethnobotanist. Admittedly, I don't know what exactly his role with Botanical Dimensions was, but it's pretty clear that BD is primarily Kathleen's thing, not Terence's, as his involvement with BD ended with his divorce. A couple lectures purportedly about ethnobotany doesn't make Terence an ethnobotanist. His involvement with BD might qualify him as an ethnobotanist, but the article doesn't say what he did for BD.Plantdrew (talk) 16:52, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
- I forgot to thank Plantdrew for cleaning up this Talk page after Brian Aker's early editing attempts (thanks Plantdrew). I note however that he removed the attribution of 'ethnobotanist' simply because he "doesn't think that" Terence merits this, and he is not prepared to restore it because he doesn't "know what exactly his role with Botanical Dimensions". As I pointed out, Terence and Kat were co-founders (in 1975) of Botanical Dimensions. I knew Terence personally from 1986 through 1994, and I can tell you that Terence was as much involved with BD as Kat was. I also visited their plant repository on the Big Island of Hawaii, where they were cultivating plants of ethnobotanical significance. (Here is a photo of their house there: http://www.fractal-timewave.com/pics/mckenna_house_hawaii.jpg A small part of the plant repository is visible at the left of the picture.) Plantdrew says that BD "is primarily Kat's thing, not Terence's, as his involvement with BD ended with his divorce." That's not true, since Terence gave at least one public talk after his divorce which was intended to raise money for BD, and even if his involvement ended with his divorce (in the early 1990s) that would still mean that for about 20 years he was involved. Plantdrew says that: "A couple [of] lectures purportedly about ethnobotany doesn't make Terence an ethnobotanist." Note the use of the prejudicial 'purportedly'. Has Plantdrew viewed the 4 DVDs of Terence's seminar in San Fransisco entitled "Ethnobotany and Shamanism" (available from Sound Photosynthesis at http://www.soundphotosynthesis.com/Terence_Mckenna.html)? Peter Meyer (TWZ author) (talk) 06:09, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I cannot find a source that would satisfy WP editors, i don't think, but McKenna graduated from Berkeley in 1975 with a degree in "ecology, resource conservation and Shamanism". Given that the majority of his career was based around using and learning about ethno-important plants and bringing them to the west for use and preservations quite clearly places him in the box of at least ethnobotanist. His knowledge of botany was extensive, to say the least. For the record, Dennis McKenna is an Ethnopharmacologist, not an Ethnobotanist. I don't have a source for that except the man himself. I am a personal friend. 122.60.120.107 (talk) 04:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)Amadeus
With regards to McKenna being correctly classified as a ethnobotanist, I completely agree and have edited accordingly. I feel that I have added enough sourced information into the article itself to justify this change (see the botanical dimensions section specifically.) With regards to McKenna being correctly classified as a philosopher again I completely agree. To state that you need to have "published articles in one or more academic journals in some field [to be] acknowledged as a practitioner of research in that field" in regards to philosophy is simply reducing the term philosopher to only apply to a western modern academic only interpretation of the word. I feel this is a false premise and completely unjustified and I have edited the article accordingly. --Screamliner (talk) 19:06, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Misinfo about McKenna's education
Reference this passage (current edit), "Studying and Traveling" section:
"In 1972, McKenna returned to Berkeley to finish his studies.[6] There he decided to switch majors to a Bachelor of Science in ecology and conservation, in a then new experimental section of the same university called the Tussman Experimental College.[2]"
The 1st sentence is just wrong. How did that misinfo originate, where'd it come from? Following its magic thread - [6] - leads to a dead end, a manequin (^ a b c d e f Template:Cite weblast=Martin). Conclusion – fog, untraceable. Another unsolvable mystery, posed as info for WP readers. Where was TM the year after his Amazon exploits, then? Here's TM (TRUE HALLUCINATIONS, Chap 17), on his 1972 whereabouts and doings: “A year after the events at La Chorrera ... spring of 1972, I was in Boulder, Colorado ... Dennis and I were working together on ... THE INVISiBLE LANDSCAPE, and spending a lot of time at the university library.”
The 2nd sentence again, wrong. Doubly, two interwoven false strands. First, as the TRUE HALLU quote above reflects, he was in Colorado, not California - nor enrolled in any program. Second, the Tussman Experiment (of which TM was indeed a subject) – ran from 1965-1969. The experimental college wasn’t even open - much less “then new” (?) - in 1972. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tussman_Experimental_College) Again, the citation, [2] - posed as if source for such claims - appears either clueless, or a prank. Unlike [6], [2] is a real source, at least. But it neither states nor implies any such thing. What TM says in [2] is, he “arrived at Berkeley the year after the Free Speech Movement.”
A brief TRUE HALLU passage likewise reflects: “Vanessa and I had been student radicals together at Berkeley from 1965-1967. We were part of the Experimental College at Berkeley, but in 1968 I went to New York ...” (p. 20).Akersbp (talk) 15:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC) akersbp
Misinfo about McKenna stopping the use of psilocybin
Read the description and uploader comments in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO3LlYzQU4g
Terence: "At first I cut back on Cannabis, because it seemed to trigger the seizures. But then I easily got that corrected. Now I'm smoking as much dope as I ever did. I haven't been taking ayahuasca, because the vomiting reflex is too scary in terms of the brain seizure reflex. They're really closely related. So I've been taking psilocybin. We happen to have some actual pure psilocybin, not mushrooms. And it's great. So I guess the answer is no. I want to probe into it, I want to understand it. I mean obviously, death is a very big deal."
The excerpt is from this 1999 interview with McKenna: http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v10n2/10206mck.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:4800:660:D850:E64B:264C:3797 (talk) 07:56, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
--- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bellynests (talk • contribs) 22:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
I've removed the misinfo from the wiki. The original source (Dennis Mckenna's book - The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss) contains no reference to Terence Mckenna's 'existential crisis'. <Bellynests>
---
I've just checked the edit history and can see that the paragraph in question has been removed and reinstated several times. I'd advise those involved to actually READ Dennis's book (the original source quoted by Bruce Damer in his 'Deep Dive'). As previously stated, the information regarding Terence Mckenna's psilocybin use was removed prior to the books release. Bellynests (talk) 22:48, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
- No idea what this is about, but the "existential crisis" happened to his brother, not himself. Viriditas (talk) 10:38, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Cleaning up
I removed the Novelty theory section because it was infested with an unknown amount of nonsense added by socks of this banned user,
- Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/8i347g8gl/Archive
- Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Antichristos/Archive
- Pottinger's cats (talk · contribs)
- Blastikus (talk · contribs)
It's really crazy stuff ("gravitoelectrical treeing", "flux tubes", etc.) which doesn't match the sources and has little relation to the article. An older version of the section possibly contains uninfected material, however it's largely unsourced and seems to include original research. vzaak 20:09, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- Note there may well be more of this unsourced nonsense in the article; I only removed an obvious chunk of it. vzaak 20:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning this up Vzaak I have attempted to create a more coherent and factual section on novelty theory Screamliner (talk) 19:18, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
- I'm curious about this value judgement of this section, and possibly others, as "nonsense". If the subject is well known for a theory, it's not the job of an editor to judge its content, only to report it faithfully. I might consider the entire content of the Bible to be "nonsense", yet I would accurately report what it said on a subject if an article called for it.Rosencomet (talk) 23:26, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
- I said unsourced nonsense. It's original research. And it's nonsense. Incredibly, someone has restored the nonsense. Just look at that link. None of the sources mention "gravitoelectrical treeing", "flux tubes", etc. The views of McKenna are not being faithfully reported. For example the sources suggest nothing remotely close to "when two matter waves become connected by mutual constructive interference (quantum entanglement, rapport), they imagine or grok each other". This is the same foolishness that was added to other articles (see the first sockpuppet report above). The McKenna article was vandalized. The vandal is a banned sockpuppeteer who is an actual crazy person. Please don't restore this unsourced original research again.
I agree with Vzaak the section which keeps being restored is unsourced and original research and I agree that the views of McKenna are not being faithfully reported. I have listened to and read a lot of his work and and I have not heard him describe novelty theory in such a overly complex and incoherent manner, plus the section tells the reader little to do with how the theory was formulated or the mathematics underpinning it. In my opinion it is poorly written and confusing. I would argue that this is much more coherent and detailed edit However there is definitly some room in this edit for McKenna's speculations on what novelty theory meant in 'real terms' (i.e. 'the hyper dimensional object at the end of time' and how it was affecting the historical process, the planet, humans and culture) Screamliner (talk) 11:02, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
- vzaak is well-known for his anti-social behaviour: http://weilerpsiblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/the-wikipedia-battle-for-rupert-sheldrakes-biography/
- Your version of the Novelty Theory section is full of tautologies and unsourced misconceptions:
- "Novelty, in this context, can be thought of as newness, or increased activity and options." The number of options (degrees of freedom) is entropy, which McKenna defines as the opposite of novelty.
- "The peaks in the graph represent the abstraction of 'stasis' or habitual stability, while the valleys represent novelty or change." A change can result in a decrease of novelty. So, novelty is not change.
- So, you are not qualified to edit this article, Screamliner. 192.69.217.195 (talk) 12:22, 5 January 2014 (UTC)