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{{backwardscopy|url=http://www.walkoffame.com/red-skelton|title=Red Skelton|author=Hollywood Chamber of Commerce|date=ca. 2014|comments=Here is another case where an external site is publishing content similar to our own - the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce has an explicit copyright tag on this page - where evidence suggests that it evolved here naturally. The site is flagged 2014, and 2014 is the oldest current archive for the page ([http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.walkoffame.com/red-skelton see]). Beyond this, there is evidence of natural evolution of this content all the way back to the creation of this article in 2003. This is the lead of the external site:<br><blockquote>Red Skelton was an American comedian who was best known as a top radio and television star from 1937 to 1971. Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to vaudeville, Broadway, films, radio, TV, night clubs and casinos, all while pursuing another career as a painter.</blockquote><br> We see the lead sentence, starting with "Bernard Richard "Red" Skelton (July 18, 1913 - September 17, 1997) was an American comedian who started in vaudeville as a teen-ager, worked his way up to Broadway shows, secondary roles in MGM movies, radio performances and finally popularity in the early days of TV." placed in Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&oldid=1055307 in June 2003]. This had only minimal changes for years, when an IP rewrote the lead [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=34535698 on 9 January 2006], to introduce what made Skelton notable in the lead: <br><blockquote>'''Red Skelton''' ...was an American comedian whose greatest impact---in a career which began as a teen circus clown and graduated to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], [[Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer|MGM]] films, and [[radio]]---began when he reached stardom with [[television]]'s ''[[The Red Skelton Show]]'' ([[CBS]], [[1951]]-[[1970]]; [[NBC]], [[1971]]).</blockquote><br> This is clearly moving to be more similar to the external site, but is still very different. This sat for some months until [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=prev&oldid=63100249 this edit on 10 July 2006] changed it to:<br><blockquote>'''Richard Bernard "Red" Skelton''' ...was an American comedian who was most well known as a [[television]] star with ''[[The Red Skelton Show]]'' ([[NBC]], [[1951 in television|1951]]–[[1952 in television|1952]], [[CBS]], [[1953 in television|1953]]–[[1970 in television|1970]]; [[NBC]], [[1970 in television|1970]]–[[1971 in television|1971]]). Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], [[Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer|MGM]] films, and [[radio]].</blockquote><br> Again, a change that brings it closer to the source. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=63100249 Later the same day], a different editor modified ''that'' to read: <br><blockquote>'''Richard Bernard "Red" Skelton'''...was an American comedian who was most well known as a [[old-time radio|radio]] and [[television]] star from 1937 to 1971. Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], films, radio, TV, clubs and casinos, while also pursuing another career as a painter.</blockquote><br> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=63128350 A minute later], he changed "most well known" to "best known" and added "top" to the description. At this point, the lead in our article is the same as the lead in the external site, but the information on his early life differs substantially. We see that evolving gradually and naturally as well, with edits such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=100382244&oldid=98932204 this], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=332106845 this] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=345153859&oldid=344898795 this]. Just as with the source above, we have to conclude from these signs of natural evolution that the content was created here on Wikipedia by multiple people and taken as a source by the website that also publishes the text - perhaps unaware that use of Wikipedia content without attribution is a violation of license. (See [[WP:Reuse]].) --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 23:55, 28 March 2014 (UTC)}} |
{{backwardscopy|url=http://www.walkoffame.com/red-skelton|title=Red Skelton|author=Hollywood Chamber of Commerce|date=ca. 2014|comments=Here is another case where an external site is publishing content similar to our own - the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce has an explicit copyright tag on this page - where evidence suggests that it evolved here naturally. The site is flagged 2014, and 2014 is the oldest current archive for the page ([http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.walkoffame.com/red-skelton see]). Beyond this, there is evidence of natural evolution of this content all the way back to the creation of this article in 2003. This is the lead of the external site:<br><blockquote>Red Skelton was an American comedian who was best known as a top radio and television star from 1937 to 1971. Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to vaudeville, Broadway, films, radio, TV, night clubs and casinos, all while pursuing another career as a painter.</blockquote><br> We see the lead sentence, starting with "Bernard Richard "Red" Skelton (July 18, 1913 - September 17, 1997) was an American comedian who started in vaudeville as a teen-ager, worked his way up to Broadway shows, secondary roles in MGM movies, radio performances and finally popularity in the early days of TV." placed in Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&oldid=1055307 in June 2003]. This had only minimal changes for years, when an IP rewrote the lead [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=34535698 on 9 January 2006], to introduce what made Skelton notable in the lead: <br><blockquote>'''Red Skelton''' ...was an American comedian whose greatest impact---in a career which began as a teen circus clown and graduated to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], [[Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer|MGM]] films, and [[radio]]---began when he reached stardom with [[television]]'s ''[[The Red Skelton Show]]'' ([[CBS]], [[1951]]-[[1970]]; [[NBC]], [[1971]]).</blockquote><br> This is clearly moving to be more similar to the external site, but is still very different. This sat for some months until [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=prev&oldid=63100249 this edit on 10 July 2006] changed it to:<br><blockquote>'''Richard Bernard "Red" Skelton''' ...was an American comedian who was most well known as a [[television]] star with ''[[The Red Skelton Show]]'' ([[NBC]], [[1951 in television|1951]]–[[1952 in television|1952]], [[CBS]], [[1953 in television|1953]]–[[1970 in television|1970]]; [[NBC]], [[1970 in television|1970]]–[[1971 in television|1971]]). Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], [[Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer|MGM]] films, and [[radio]].</blockquote><br> Again, a change that brings it closer to the source. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=63100249 Later the same day], a different editor modified ''that'' to read: <br><blockquote>'''Richard Bernard "Red" Skelton'''...was an American comedian who was most well known as a [[old-time radio|radio]] and [[television]] star from 1937 to 1971. Skelton's show business career began in his teens as a circus clown and went on to [[vaudeville]], [[Broadway theatre|Broadway]], films, radio, TV, clubs and casinos, while also pursuing another career as a painter.</blockquote><br> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=63128350 A minute later], he changed "most well known" to "best known" and added "top" to the description. At this point, the lead in our article is the same as the lead in the external site, but the information on his early life differs substantially. We see that evolving gradually and naturally as well, with edits such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=100382244&oldid=98932204 this], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=next&oldid=332106845 this] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_Skelton&diff=345153859&oldid=344898795 this]. Just as with the source above, we have to conclude from these signs of natural evolution that the content was created here on Wikipedia by multiple people and taken as a source by the website that also publishes the text - perhaps unaware that use of Wikipedia content without attribution is a violation of license. (See [[WP:Reuse]].) --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 23:55, 28 March 2014 (UTC)}} |
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{{dyktalk|30 May|2014|entry= ... that comedian '''[[Red Skelton]]''' earned more from painting than from his television and radio career?}} |
{{dyktalk|30 May|2014|entry= ... that comedian '''[[Red Skelton]]''' earned more from painting than from his television and radio career?}} |
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⚫ | FWIW, one question of this and other bios, like [[Peter Sellers]] and [[Charlie Chaplin]]', always jumps out at me, and it's why have a separate "Biography" section for a biography article? It seems that every aspect of the article is biographical, as it should be. But as I'm only a drive-by, I'll just add that I feel a "Personal life" section is more useful and intuitive than co-mingling his career with his marriages and family problems, as details are easier to find, although that preference didn't get too far on Sellers or Chaplin. And if anyone feels a PD portrait photo of his attractive daughter at HS graduation would be of benefit, let me know. --[[User:Light show|Light show]] ([[User talk:Light show|talk]]) 00:47, 2 July 2014 (UTC) |
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== News stories re: the bomber Skelton bought via his radio show == |
== News stories re: the bomber Skelton bought via his radio show == |
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:: Cauliflower, Clem, San Fernando Red, Freddie and George...and, of course, Gertrude and Heathcliff...are smiling upon you. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 17:53, 30 May 2014 (UTC) |
:: Cauliflower, Clem, San Fernando Red, Freddie and George...and, of course, Gertrude and Heathcliff...are smiling upon you. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 17:53, 30 May 2014 (UTC) |
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: Good to hear. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] ([[User talk:Zanimum|talk]]) 13:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC) |
: Good to hear. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] ([[User talk:Zanimum|talk]]) 13:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC) |
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⚫ | |||
⚫ | FWIW, one question of this and other bios, like [[Peter Sellers]] and [[Charlie Chaplin]]', always jumps out at me, and it's why have a separate "Biography" section for a biography article? It seems that every aspect of the article is biographical, as it should be. But as I'm only a drive-by, I'll just add that I feel a "Personal life" section is more useful and intuitive than co-mingling his career with his marriages and family problems, as details are easier to find, although that preference didn't get too far on Sellers or Chaplin. And if anyone feels a PD portrait photo of his attractive daughter at HS graduation would be of benefit, let me know. --[[User:Light show|Light show]] ([[User talk:Light show|talk]]) 00:47, 2 July 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 00:49, 2 July 2014
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News stories re: the bomber Skelton bought via his radio show
In case someone wants to start an article about the Soviet Army bomber Red Skelton collected funds for through his radio program, here are some news story links with some history of the plane. We hope (talk) 13:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- The Milwaukee Journal November 25, 1986.
- Beaver County Times May 25, 1993.
- New York Times November 6, 1986.
- This is... very interesting. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:23, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Just added the note to the article that the last pilot (the third--this is the one who met Skelton in 1993) said he would have thanked Skelton some time earlier, but a US diplomat told him that Skelton was dead. We hope (talk) 14:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- I can imagine a "We Dood It!" bomber article. That would be fun to work on. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:52, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Let's see if we can come up with any more sources to flesh this out a bit. We hope (talk) 14:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Right, of course. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Let's see if we can come up with any more sources to flesh this out a bit. We hope (talk) 14:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Just added the note to the article that the last pilot (the third--this is the one who met Skelton in 1993) said he would have thanked Skelton some time earlier, but a US diplomat told him that Skelton was dead. We hope (talk) 14:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Featured Article?
I encourage the contributors here to take this article all the way to FAC. But, then, of course, you probably already had that in mind. — Maile (talk) 15:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- That's the plan, yes. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- Good to hear. -- Zanimum (talk) 13:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Structure as biography
FWIW, one question of this and other bios, like Peter Sellers and Charlie Chaplin', always jumps out at me, and it's why have a separate "Biography" section for a biography article? It seems that every aspect of the article is biographical, as it should be. But as I'm only a drive-by, I'll just add that I feel a "Personal life" section is more useful and intuitive than co-mingling his career with his marriages and family problems, as details are easier to find, although that preference didn't get too far on Sellers or Chaplin. And if anyone feels a PD portrait photo of his attractive daughter at HS graduation would be of benefit, let me know. --Light show (talk) 00:47, 2 July 2014 (UTC)