Techleadhd (talk | contribs) →Notability template: Reply Tag: Reply |
Nomoskedasticity (talk | contribs) |
||
Line 18: | Line 18: | ||
:Hi there. I'd like to request that the "Criticism on women" be corrected or removed. TechLead actually supports women in tech, there are 3 prior videos on this topic here that should clarify his stance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1_Nojagh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-sLuEmUco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut2FU_uDgUU. I would encourage you to please consider watching the full context to be able to better understand his views. Due to TechLead's satirical & sarcastic tone, it is easy to misunderstand. [[User:Techleadhd|Techleadhd]] ([[User talk:Techleadhd|talk]]) 16:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC) |
:Hi there. I'd like to request that the "Criticism on women" be corrected or removed. TechLead actually supports women in tech, there are 3 prior videos on this topic here that should clarify his stance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1_Nojagh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-sLuEmUco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut2FU_uDgUU. I would encourage you to please consider watching the full context to be able to better understand his views. Due to TechLead's satirical & sarcastic tone, it is easy to misunderstand. [[User:Techleadhd|Techleadhd]] ([[User talk:Techleadhd|talk]]) 16:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC) |
||
::1) We're not going to use primary sources. 2) I suggest not referring to yourself using 3rd person -- it might be taken as an attempt to mislead other editors. [[User:Nomoskedasticity|Nomoskedasticity]] ([[User talk:Nomoskedasticity|talk]]) 18:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC) |
|||
:I'd like to request revision on the "companies founded" section for removal. While TechLead promoted these projects - they are not companies, nor is he the sole founder. TechLead has promoted dozens of brands & projects, the list is long, to which he has contributed in varying degrees. [[User:Techleadhd|Techleadhd]] ([[User talk:Techleadhd|talk]]) 16:30, 14 December 2022 (UTC) |
:I'd like to request revision on the "companies founded" section for removal. While TechLead promoted these projects - they are not companies, nor is he the sole founder. TechLead has promoted dozens of brands & projects, the list is long, to which he has contributed in varying degrees. [[User:Techleadhd|Techleadhd]] ([[User talk:Techleadhd|talk]]) 16:30, 14 December 2022 (UTC) |
||
Revision as of 18:09, 14 December 2022
Biography Unassessed | |||||||
|
Notability template
The page Category:Articles with topics of unclear notability from May 2022 says, "Once the article has references to at least two reliable sources that have significant coverage about the subject the Notability tag can be removed." (emphasis in original) As I write this, the article has five sources with significant coverage of the source, tagged thusly on WP:RSP:
- CNBC (not listed, although its sibling organizations NBC News and MSNBC are listed as generally reliable)
- The Times of India (no consensus)
- Benzinga (not listed)
- Business Insider (no consensus for the news section)
- TheQuint (not listed)
If we're treating CNBC as a branch of NBC News, that's one generally reliable source and two no-consensus sources that need to be evaluated in context. Notes on The Times of India state that it "tends to have a bias in favor of the Indian government", but I doubt that such a bias would apply to this article. Notes about Insider (parent of Business Insider) call attention to the site's syndicated content, which the source in this article is not.
If we can find one more generally reliable source (or two more generally reliable sources, if CNBC is not reliable), or if we can consider the existing sources reliable, then I think it should be uncontroversial to remove the Notability tag. White 720 (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hi there. I'd like to request that the "Criticism on women" be corrected or removed. TechLead actually supports women in tech, there are 3 prior videos on this topic here that should clarify his stance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1_Nojagh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-sLuEmUco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut2FU_uDgUU. I would encourage you to please consider watching the full context to be able to better understand his views. Due to TechLead's satirical & sarcastic tone, it is easy to misunderstand. Techleadhd (talk) 16:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- 1) We're not going to use primary sources. 2) I suggest not referring to yourself using 3rd person -- it might be taken as an attempt to mislead other editors. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- I'd like to request revision on the "companies founded" section for removal. While TechLead promoted these projects - they are not companies, nor is he the sole founder. TechLead has promoted dozens of brands & projects, the list is long, to which he has contributed in varying degrees. Techleadhd (talk) 16:30, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 8 December 2022
Patrick Shyu → TechLead – YouTube account name is more generally identified with the article subject than his given name is White 720 (talk) 05:51, 8 December 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). ─ The Aafī (talk) 07:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nomoskedasticity contested stating,
I don't agree that this request amounts to a "technical" move, and I don't agree that the move should happen. At a minimum, it should be done via discussion & (potential) consensus on the article talk page. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:16, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Courtesy pings to: Nomoskedasticity and White 720 - ─ The Aafī (talk) 07:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: the sources generally seem to refer to this person by real name, not by the moniker. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support Shyu's notability seems to come from things done under the techlead name, and that seems to be the name he is the most well known under. Per the criteria on choosing article names at WP:CRITERIA Techlead would be more recognizable, since that's the name he is most known under, it would be more natural, since that's what people are more likely to look for, and it would be more consistent, since other youtubers, such as Pewdiepie or MrBeast are usually identified by their youtube names --Tristario (talk) 08:36, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- While it is true all the sources refer to him as Patrick Shyu, all the sources also refer to the name "Techlead", and this one notes that is how he is popularly known. There are multiple plausible options available to name this article, and per WP:COMMONNAME, when that is the case the five WP:CRITERIA need to be considered. The policy does not say that just because a name is the most common, that's how the article should be named. For the reasons above, I think that Techlead would meet the five criteria much better than Patrick Shyu. It's also the case for other youtubers that they would be more commonly referred to by their real names in reliable sources, but it's also clear in those cases that their youtube names meet the WP:CRITERIA much better Tristario (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Great, so how do you prove it? I might agree, except the very first line in that policy is "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject." Sources don't predominantly use the name John Osbourne to refer to the singer. They call him Ozzy most predominantly, because that's how he is commonly known. Sources tell us what the common name is by a preponderance of use. Anything else is original research. Zaereth (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- This isn't original research, because we have a source saying that's how he's popularly known, as above. "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject", yes and then it goes on to say if there is more than one appropriate name (which there is), you apply those criteria. And that isn't what the policy says. It advises the common name because it can meet the WP:CRITERIA well. Assessing whether something meets the criteria well isn't prohibited under WP:OR Tristario (talk) 23:42, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Once source doesn't cut it, especially in the face of most other sources that refer to him by his name and simply mention his nom-de-plume as his other identity. The example of Ozzy is spot on. Very few (if any sources) refer to "John Osbourne, popularly known as Ozzy..." No, they call him Ozzy Osbourne across the board. That is how we know how he is popularly known. In this case, Sources call the subject Partick Shyu across the board, and we should follow suit. Lard Almighty (talk) 06:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- While that's the only source (in this article at least) that explicitly says that's how he is popularly known, other sources are clear that "Techlead" is the name he is known on the internet under and conducts his online activities under. It isn't WP:OR to see that. And considering the multiple options for a title, I think the WP:CRITERIA support Techlead - it's more recognizable, natural, and consistent with titles of other youtuber articles Tristario (talk) 07:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what one source says (the opinion of the author). What matters is what the sources uniformly do, and what the sources uniformly do in this case is refer to the subject as Patrick Shyu, aka TeachLead. We follow the sources. Lard Almighty (talk) 06:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- As I've pointed out that's not what the policy says Tristario (talk) 07:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- See Zaereth's comment. Lard Almighty (talk) 07:24, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah and I pointed out it says "There is often more than one appropriate title for an article. In that case, editors choose the best title by consensus based on the considerations that this page explains. A good Wikipedia article title has the five following characteristics" Tristario (talk) 07:27, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- The policy states that Wikipedia "generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)." In this case, that is Patrick Shyu. Consensus on what name to use would be needed only where there is ambiguity amongst the sources. In this case, there is no ambiguity; sources consistently refer to the subject as Patrick Shyu aka TechLead. Lard Almighty (talk) 12:38, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah and I pointed out it says "There is often more than one appropriate title for an article. In that case, editors choose the best title by consensus based on the considerations that this page explains. A good Wikipedia article title has the five following characteristics" Tristario (talk) 07:27, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- See Zaereth's comment. Lard Almighty (talk) 07:24, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- As I've pointed out that's not what the policy says Tristario (talk) 07:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what one source says (the opinion of the author). What matters is what the sources uniformly do, and what the sources uniformly do in this case is refer to the subject as Patrick Shyu, aka TeachLead. We follow the sources. Lard Almighty (talk) 06:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- While that's the only source (in this article at least) that explicitly says that's how he is popularly known, other sources are clear that "Techlead" is the name he is known on the internet under and conducts his online activities under. It isn't WP:OR to see that. And considering the multiple options for a title, I think the WP:CRITERIA support Techlead - it's more recognizable, natural, and consistent with titles of other youtuber articles Tristario (talk) 07:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- Once source doesn't cut it, especially in the face of most other sources that refer to him by his name and simply mention his nom-de-plume as his other identity. The example of Ozzy is spot on. Very few (if any sources) refer to "John Osbourne, popularly known as Ozzy..." No, they call him Ozzy Osbourne across the board. That is how we know how he is popularly known. In this case, Sources call the subject Partick Shyu across the board, and we should follow suit. Lard Almighty (talk) 06:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- This isn't original research, because we have a source saying that's how he's popularly known, as above. "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject", yes and then it goes on to say if there is more than one appropriate name (which there is), you apply those criteria. And that isn't what the policy says. It advises the common name because it can meet the WP:CRITERIA well. Assessing whether something meets the criteria well isn't prohibited under WP:OR Tristario (talk) 23:42, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Great, so how do you prove it? I might agree, except the very first line in that policy is "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject." Sources don't predominantly use the name John Osbourne to refer to the singer. They call him Ozzy most predominantly, because that's how he is commonly known. Sources tell us what the common name is by a preponderance of use. Anything else is original research. Zaereth (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support as nominator. White 720 (talk) 15:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose all the sources I can find (including his own website) refer to him as Patrick Shyu (inter alia "TechLead"). It doesn't matter what his YouTube account name is, what matters is what WP:RS primarily call him. As long as there is a redirect from TechLead to this article, anyone searching for his screen name will find him. Lard Almighty (talk) 15:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- - Oppose - I am going to have to agree with Lard Almighty here. This is just OR. If it is a big deal now it should have been one at the beginning. You can't have it both ways. The subject of the article has gone to no great lengths to separate themselves from the "secret identity", and in fact has done all kinds of things that show very openly that they are the same person. None of the sources use his stage name except to say it is the name of his youtube channel. None of that jives with what the Wikipedia user named TechLeadhd is saying, and that makes me suspicious; there is no way to be sure that this isn't some imposter playing a hoax. I think we should simply follow the sources, and the sources all use the subject's his real name predominantly. I would say that the cat is already out of the bag, but it was never in the bag to start with. Good luck stuffing it in now. Zaereth (talk) 22:10, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Use his own name, like he does, except using a nom-de-plume for his youtube stuff. I suppose a redirect could be used for people that dont know his name, but dont see the point. It's only Youtube after all. -Roxy the dog 22:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Support (full disclosure, I am the subject of the article). There is more context at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Patrick_Shyu. To summarize, "TechLead" is the more commonly recognized name and exclusive topic under which the Wikipedia article is published in its current form. To be clear, "TechLead" is an exaagerated fictional persona created for YouTube acted/scripted by Patrick Shyu. To assume that "TechLead" is Patrick Shyu would be like assuming that "Jack Sparrow" is Johnny Depp - while the public may mistakenly assume the two as the same person, that wouldn't be quite accurate. I actually run multiple YouTube channels and businesses, of which "TechLead" is only one project and in the larger scheme "TechLead" composes about 1% of my biographical life. When/if someone is ready to write a biography on me as a person that covers my personal & professional career, then an article under "Patrick Shyu" would be warranted. Further, Wikipedia policy is to be conservative & careful on biographies of living people. Therefore, because the article is exclusively about the YouTuber "TechLead," who is a fictional persona (and many YouTubers on Wikipedia are referred to by their stage names), and Wikipedia's conservative policy on living biographies, I would support moving the article.
- Techleadhd (talk) 16:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Just leaving these for interested editors.
I noticed that stuff had been deleted from this page for BLP reasons in this diff. My forensic investigation of this led me to the google search, and the first two results were this and this. They are interesting, but I doubt the reliability of reddit and have no clue about the other one. -Roxy the dog 17:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- Further forensic research led me to a noticeboard (BLP) which I shall try to read again, but what we have in the article looks very whitewashy compared to the info available on the Internetz? Roxy the dog 17:30, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- With WP:BLPs we need to be very careful about the quality of sourcing, especially for anything contentious. We should not be paying any attention at all to whatever is said on reddit. Those sources are definitely not good enough for such contentious claims. WP:BLPCRIME in particular may apply here Tristario (talk) 23:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
I really doubt that Reddit would be considered a reliable source, suitable for a biography of a living person. I found a few crypto-centric news sites that talked about Million Token, but we should maintain a high standard for reporting to feed into this article. White 720 (talk) 17:38, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- OK Good, do you want to suggest some text? Should we just use the text you removed? -Roxy the dog 18:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
The text I removed said that the article subject had been jailed or imprisoned for fraud; there are no credible sources that back up such a statement.
I haven’t found any reliable sources who have said anything about Million Token. There have been accusations that it was a Ponzi scheme or a pump-and-dump, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as Carl Sagan said. White 720 (talk) 19:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC)