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*'''Oppose'''. Like it or not, the victim was invariably referred to as Maxwell Confait. Every source cited in the article uses that name. It has gone down in the annals of British murder. It is the very clear [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Wikipedia is not in the business of revisionism. We report facts and only facts. How it was, not how modern sensibilities would like it to be. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 13:41, 22 February 2023 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose'''. Like it or not, the victim was invariably referred to as Maxwell Confait. Every source cited in the article uses that name. It has gone down in the annals of British murder. It is the very clear [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Wikipedia is not in the business of revisionism. We report facts and only facts. How it was, not how modern sensibilities would like it to be. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 13:41, 22 February 2023 (UTC) |
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**I should also point out that not a single reliable source refers to Confait as "a trans woman". This is no more than putting a 21st-century interpretation on the life of someone who died fifty years ago. Confait was described at the time as a transvestite and some modern commentators (including, obviously, some Wikipedia editors) have assumed that means a trans woman. However, even today, not everyone by a long shot who identifies as a transvestite identifies as a trans woman (see [[Grayson Perry]] for a particularly well-known example). It appears that because an editor has added "trans woman" to the article (with no supporting sources) the above editors have automatically assumed this is correct because in the 21st century that's what many would assume. But as with many other things, you simply cannot apply 21st-century assumptions to the past and we do not make assumptions on Wikipedia without supporting evidence from reliable sources. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 10:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
**I should also point out that not a single reliable source refers to Confait as "a trans woman". This is no more than putting a 21st-century interpretation on the life of someone who died fifty years ago. Confait was described at the time as a transvestite and some modern commentators (including, obviously, some Wikipedia editors) have assumed that means a trans woman. However, even today, not everyone by a long shot who identifies as a transvestite identifies as a trans woman (see [[Grayson Perry]] for a particularly well-known example). It appears that because an editor has added "trans woman" to the article (with no supporting sources) the above editors have automatically assumed this is correct because in the 21st century that's what many would assume. But as with many other things, you simply cannot apply 21st-century assumptions to the past and we do not make assumptions on Wikipedia without supporting evidence from reliable sources. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 10:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''', for now. Is there any evidence that Confait identified as a woman? Searching Google News, only two sources comment on his gender identify; The Telegraph, which [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11432527/Christopher-Price-Labour-MP-obituary.html describes them as a homosexual cross-dresser], and The Daily Mail, which [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7607155/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-Catching-Britains-Killers-Crimes-Changed-Us.html says they "preferred to live as a woman named Michelle"]. [[WP:DAILYMAIL|The Daily Mail is very unreliable]] so we need to rely on the Telegraph unless there are other sources supporting this claim. [[User:BilledMammal|BilledMammal]] ([[User talk:BilledMammal|talk]]) 18:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== Categorization as low-importance == |
== Categorization as low-importance == |
Revision as of 18:58, 26 February 2023
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Untitled
I've inserted a heading designed to separate out the material on Harry Fisher, but this really deserves its own article. This piece also needs more detail regarding Douglas Franklin, and perhaps also the fates of Lattimore, Leighton, and Salih.
External links modified (February 2018)
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Trying to bring this page up to standards
Hey, I've taken this page under my wing and am working on refining the structure and adding citations currently. However, I'm wondering whether the far-reaching ramifications of this case and the miscarriage of justice surrounding the prosecution should be under a different page altogether? Let me know if anyone has opinions. Strunk and Right (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Change Page Name
Her name is Michelle, as we know is the name she identified with. She deserves the name of the page fitting her identity. May we please discuss this, maybe take votes? Please mention me so I get notices if you reply. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 07:53, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- I definitely agree! I'm new to this, so I don't know how to change the page name. How would one do that? Lm95035679 (talk) 02:30, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Requested move 19 February 2023
Murder of Maxwell Confait → Murder of Michelle Confait – Per MOS:DEADNAME, we should respect subject's last preferred name. As far as I can tell nobody disputes that she preferred Michelle. 2603:6011:2443:AE00:D904:923E:E767:4A51 (talk) 07:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Thryduulf (talk) 11:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom --John B123 (talk) 11:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support. gobonobo + c 13:56, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Courtesy pings to @ContributingHelperOnTheSide, Lm95035679, and Pokelova: who commented in the above discussion about the page name. Thryduulf (talk) 22:31, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Lm95035679 (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Skynxnex (talk) 06:26, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. Like it or not, the victim was invariably referred to as Maxwell Confait. Every source cited in the article uses that name. It has gone down in the annals of British murder. It is the very clear WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia is not in the business of revisionism. We report facts and only facts. How it was, not how modern sensibilities would like it to be. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:41, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
- I should also point out that not a single reliable source refers to Confait as "a trans woman". This is no more than putting a 21st-century interpretation on the life of someone who died fifty years ago. Confait was described at the time as a transvestite and some modern commentators (including, obviously, some Wikipedia editors) have assumed that means a trans woman. However, even today, not everyone by a long shot who identifies as a transvestite identifies as a trans woman (see Grayson Perry for a particularly well-known example). It appears that because an editor has added "trans woman" to the article (with no supporting sources) the above editors have automatically assumed this is correct because in the 21st century that's what many would assume. But as with many other things, you simply cannot apply 21st-century assumptions to the past and we do not make assumptions on Wikipedia without supporting evidence from reliable sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose, for now. Is there any evidence that Confait identified as a woman? Searching Google News, only two sources comment on his gender identify; The Telegraph, which describes them as a homosexual cross-dresser, and The Daily Mail, which says they "preferred to live as a woman named Michelle". The Daily Mail is very unreliable so we need to rely on the Telegraph unless there are other sources supporting this claim. BilledMammal (talk) 18:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Categorization as low-importance
This seems like a pretty historically significant case and an article with many problems. Shouldn't it be categorized as something other than low-importance to get it more attention? 2603:6011:2443:AE00:D904:923E:E767:4A51 (talk) 07:48, 19 February 2023 (UTC)