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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility.2C_disruptive_editing.2C_and_stalking-like_behavior_from_Isarig |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility.2C_disruptive_editing.2C_and_stalking-like_behavior_from_Isarig |
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[[User:Ednas|Ednas]] 16:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
[[User:Ednas|Ednas]] 16:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:Yes, I understand the meaning of stalking, but I suspect ''you'' do not. I have been editing this page since before you started editing Wikipedia, let alone before you showed up here on this page. In fact, given the fact that your first edit to this page (and to Wikipedia in general), was a revert of one of my edits, which came a few hours after I made it, if anyone has grounds to accuse other people of stalking, it is me who should be accusing you. |
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:I have no problem with you adding (sourced) information about Atzmon's musical achievements, but I strongly oppose the POV edits you are making to the Politics section, removing well sourced material, making unfounded claims about the nature of his critics, and filling the article with long , rambling quotes from Atzmon. Please discuss such changes in a civil manner on the Talk page before adding them again. |
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:Finally, your last edit violated wikipedia's [[WP:3RR| 3RR]] rule. Please undo it or you may be reported and blocked from further editing. [[User:Isarig|Isarig]] 16:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
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==Anti-zionist or Anti-semite?== |
==Anti-zionist or Anti-semite?== |
Revision as of 16:44, 6 January 2007
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![]() | Biography: Musicians Unassessed | |||||||||
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Sanhedrin stalking the site
I have restored well-sourced information and full quotes, where information has been repeatedly taken out of context by individuals who appear to be stalking the entry on a daily basis. It is clear that two or more gatekeepers with a very hostile agenda against Atzmon have been acting as full-time editors, removing very well-sourced info posted by other editors as soon as it gets posted. As it is not in the interests of freedom of information to continue ignoring this Orwellian behaviour, I intend to report any further stalking by members of the sanhedrin on the wiki noticeboard.
Ednas 15:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- sanhedrin-what's that?Felix-felix 15:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
The loosely affiliated undercover netwok of operatives working to further the Zionist agenda. Atzmon is regarded as a "problem" for them. EdnaS
- Allegations that editors are part of an "undercover netwok[sic] of operatives working to further the Zionist agenda" is a serious violation of WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I strongly suggest you avoid using such language, as well as that you strike out those previous comments. They are (rightly) frowned upon by Wikipedia administrators. Isarig 16:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I stand by my postings and will strike out nothing I have written. I have not named names but if the hat fits wear it. I strongly suggest that those who have been removing information about Atzmon's musical achievements immediately desist or provide reasons for the removal of this information. Likewise those who continue removing full quotes and posting only enough to take the information out of its context should provide their reasons for the removal of this very relevant information.
Do you understand the meaning of stalking behaviour? Just by the way Isarig has been identified by several other editors as a regular stalker on various wiki pages and has a long history of disruptive editing under his belt - go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility.2C_disruptive_editing.2C_and_stalking-like_behavior_from_Isarig Ednas 16:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I understand the meaning of stalking, but I suspect you do not. I have been editing this page since before you started editing Wikipedia, let alone before you showed up here on this page. In fact, given the fact that your first edit to this page (and to Wikipedia in general), was a revert of one of my edits, which came a few hours after I made it, if anyone has grounds to accuse other people of stalking, it is me who should be accusing you.
- I have no problem with you adding (sourced) information about Atzmon's musical achievements, but I strongly oppose the POV edits you are making to the Politics section, removing well sourced material, making unfounded claims about the nature of his critics, and filling the article with long , rambling quotes from Atzmon. Please discuss such changes in a civil manner on the Talk page before adding them again.
- Finally, your last edit violated wikipedia's 3RR rule. Please undo it or you may be reported and blocked from further editing. Isarig 16:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Anti-zionist or Anti-semite?
Clearly critics of Israel are automatically anti-semitic for many. But is this appropriate for Atzmon? Certainly his writings suggest that he crosses the line between the two ideologies, for instance his assertion that American policy in the Middle East is derived from a particular lobby group. However, I have taken the view that to accuse him of anti-semitism is POV, whereas anti-zionism is used here as a neutral term, albeit unsatisfactorily realised in Atzmon's case. In the introduction he should be taken on his own terms, and the issues referred to as the article progresses. Philip Cross 21:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- He's been accused of antisemitism by his critics. Rightly or wrongly, it is not up to us to decide to censor this information- we just report and the reader can decide if the case has been appropriately made. As an aside, to claim that world Jewry is controlling, or conspiring to control the world, has nothing to do with anti-Zionism - it is an antisemitic canard taken straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion .. Isarig 16:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Like being in a furnace
Just been to see Gilad Atzmon this evening, indeed his set was like "being in a furnace", 'blinding, even, I'd say.... But is this NPOV??? I'd put it on my blog but not on wikipedia, can we tne down the hyperbole, even if it does reflect Gilad's gigs??? quercus robur 22:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I take your point about my comment bigging him up a little, but I am trying to convey the point that his style is very full on, high energy, fast, powerful, noisy, as opposed to some jazz musicians who might be described as soft, quiet, delicate, subtle - this is not Gilad's style. If you know what I mean, please rephrase the text keeping the point I am making but using less emotive language. Where was he playing by the way ?
- The Jazz Bar at Westcliff on Sea, he plays there quite often... As for Gilad's style, how about 'intense' and 'influenced by John Coltrane as well as Arabic and Jewish traditional musics such as Klezmer? He also did this thing at the gig last week where he was doing arabic sounding chants down his clarinet, which sounded really weird... quercus robur 19:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Added more bio type stuff to the music section-perhaps a section for awards too?Felix-felix 11:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Left wing?
I have removed the description of Atzmon as "left wing", since he appears to reject this, both as a self-description and even as a useful term. See for instance the interview at [1], wher he says: "I argue that left and right are dated concepts. I am interested in an authentic moral thinking, something that is not found amongst our contemporary politicians". RolandR 23:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- This page was edited by the anonymous user at 87.80.66.28, who replaced my user name at the end of my last efit. This vandalism will be reported.RolandR 11:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
- *This page has been edited by someone using my username, who has removed my earlier edits and comments. RolandR 16:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Gilad and Mark Elf calling each other antisemitic is hysterically funny, since they both are. All they're fighing over is who gets credit for it.
American Jews
I have replaced the quote from Atzmon's essay "On Anti-Semitism" [2], "American Jews (in fact Zionists) do try to control the world, by proxy", with the phrase now to be found there "American Jews (in fact Zionists) do control the world". The original citation was not incorrect; it appears that since then, Atzmon himself has amended, and sharpened, his comment. RolandR 19:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
- I've changed the quotations from the cited articles a bit, to keep them 1)contigous and 2) more representative of the cited articles. See what you think.Felix-felix 11:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Deborah Maccoby
This para was in, but deleted, then put back in, maybe twice now. I don't see what's wrong with it.
In an exchange of letters with anti-Zionist activist Deborah Maccoby during February and March 2006, Atzmon described her as a "modern day Christ killer", after she described Jesus as human rather than divine. [3]
BobFromBrockley 18:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yup, I did that-I don't really see what it adds. It doesn't really show that he's a 'self-hating jew' or, well, anything really.Why keep it?Felix-felix 09:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't show that he is a "self-hating Jew" (a meaningless phrase, in my opinion). It does, however, show that he does not hesitate to attack critics (an anti-Zionist Jew in this case) in terms and language drawn from the most obscurantist medieval Jew-haters. This is clearly relevant in a discussion of Atzmon's politics. RolandR 00:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Is it really relevant to his politics? It really just shows he's a bruiser in an argument-not much else. It doesn't enlighten the reader to his political convictions.Felix-felix 21:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't show that he is a "self-hating Jew" (a meaningless phrase, in my opinion). It does, however, show that he does not hesitate to attack critics (an anti-Zionist Jew in this case) in terms and language drawn from the most obscurantist medieval Jew-haters. This is clearly relevant in a discussion of Atzmon's politics. RolandR 00:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yup, I did that-I don't really see what it adds. It doesn't really show that he's a 'self-hating jew' or, well, anything really.Why keep it?Felix-felix 09:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Banned in Israel?
Isarig has removed from the article the assertion that Atzmon's books are "banned in Israel". As anyone who can read Hebrew can see, they are freely available even in Hebrew translation -- see Academon, Bookme and many more bookshop sites. In fact, one of his novels was nominated for a literary prize in Israel [4].RolandR 01:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)