Sophie means wisdom (talk | contribs) →Chicken tikka masala: new section |
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I am concerned the opening of this article gives a misleading impression of the history of this dish. Some years ago, I am sure I heard it said on a programme on [[BBC Radio 4|Radio 4]] that the dish is not actually of British origin - it is a dish that the British imported from [[Portugal]] (to give an idea of when I heard this, it must have been about the time that [[Robin Cook]] was claiming that chicken tika masala was now the national dish of Britain. If any one can cite verifiable evidence that the dish originated in Portugal, would this be a better opening to the article? [[User:ACEOREVIVED|ACEOREVIVED]] ([[User talk:ACEOREVIVED|talk]]) 20:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC) |
I am concerned the opening of this article gives a misleading impression of the history of this dish. Some years ago, I am sure I heard it said on a programme on [[BBC Radio 4|Radio 4]] that the dish is not actually of British origin - it is a dish that the British imported from [[Portugal]] (to give an idea of when I heard this, it must have been about the time that [[Robin Cook]] was claiming that chicken tika masala was now the national dish of Britain. If any one can cite verifiable evidence that the dish originated in Portugal, would this be a better opening to the article? [[User:ACEOREVIVED|ACEOREVIVED]] ([[User talk:ACEOREVIVED|talk]]) 20:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC) |
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I don't think that this dish exists in Portugal, maybe some years ago yes, but nowadays they haven't got any custom to eat this. |
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== Rice == |
== Rice == |
Revision as of 18:00, 15 March 2011
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United States additions
Is there a reason someone felt the need to mash the US into all of the sections? I'm sure it "exists" there, but fish and Chips is not even close to being a relevant institution like it is in the UK, Australia and NZ. If that's the case, why don't we just list every country in the world and their particular adaptions of the dish?
I know the US prides itself on offering every type of fast food, but wouldn't it be worth refining the article by simply mentioning its existence rather than scraping the barrel for information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.240.147 (talk) 16:08, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I wonder if fish and chips can be considered fast food. If this is the case, as we reach globalisation. Could we say that we can prepare this dish with any kind of fish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azugrupok (talk • contribs) 19:19, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Origin
The origin of fish and chips has long been attributed to early Jewish immigrants to London preparing fish in the traditional method brought with them from the Iberian peninsular. Letsgetthingsright (talk) 03:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Attributed by whom? I have never heard of this.
Also, why does the article claim that the dish is associated with Germany? There are no other references to Germany, and fish and chips appears to be a purely British invention.JohnC (talk) 02:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
- I've heard of this. There was a programme on radio 4 several years ago about the origins of fish & chips. I recall that two different groups of Jewish immigrants from different parts of europe fled to London, escaping persecution. They became integrated in the community, and one group traditionally ate fried potato, and one fried fish, hence the creation of fish and chips. This will need to be verified though. 86.154.74.121 (talk) 22:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Anglo-American Terms
I changed the "Naming and terminology" section to "Anglophone terms" and gave it a new introductory sentence. The section is about differences in how chips are named in the English-speaking world. Since the article is about fish and chips, maybe this section could make it explicit that fish and chips are served with thicker fried potato cuts, and that a dish in which the chips are thin (like french fries) should be considered a North American variant of the fish and chips dish. I'm a little hungry right now, so I can't think just how to express this succinctly. Divespluto (talk) 17:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Divespluto
History of fish and chips - is it something the British imported form Portugal?
I am concerned the opening of this article gives a misleading impression of the history of this dish. Some years ago, I am sure I heard it said on a programme on Radio 4 that the dish is not actually of British origin - it is a dish that the British imported from Portugal (to give an idea of when I heard this, it must have been about the time that Robin Cook was claiming that chicken tika masala was now the national dish of Britain. If any one can cite verifiable evidence that the dish originated in Portugal, would this be a better opening to the article? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that this dish exists in Portugal, maybe some years ago yes, but nowadays they haven't got any custom to eat this.
Rice
Rice shouldn't be mentioned in this article. Not being xenophobic, but the discussion should be limited to fish and chips. I know chinese chippies often sell fish and chips but I've yet to find one that is as good as a British chippy - and no, before anyone asks, I am not being xenophobic/racist! I wouldn't ask my local chippy to make me a prawn egg foo yung! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashton Archer (talk • contribs) 22:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
So many tags?
I'm sort of new to editing Wikipedia, but I do see "citation needed" tags everywhere. Shouldn't there be one for each paragraph? Is it alright if I take them out? Or am I having to wait? Ron James 007 (talk) 08:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Ron. Should we have "citation needed" flags on every paragraph? on every sentence? on every phrase? on every second word? Answer: yes, definitely... see Template:Fact. BUT -- some facts and claims attract little dispute or count as common knowledge or have obvious provenance in the context. And then again, on the other hand, "citation needed" tags get to serve so many useful functions at once: they may mean "This sounds interesting but slightly implausible so please provide some evidence" or: "I don't accept this tripe for a moment and will come back and delete the offending passage unless somebody provides a watertight source pronto". -- One should NEVER delete a "citation needed" flag unless one has either provided a reliable source (well done!) or deleted a flagged passage which has waited "too long" for supporting material (and preferably foreshadowed such deletion on the relevant Talk-page). -- Pedant17 (talk) 12:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Excessive detail
This article seems overly long and full of information that is unverified (and, given the, let's face it, low importance of the subject matter, unverifiable by acceptable sources). Is it really necessary to ramble on in such nauseating detail about whether all six chip shops (yes, all six!) in Holyhead provide water strained from the mushy peas free of charge, or whether chips from Kingston upon Hull have a distinctive orangy hue, or on the incidence of sour cream in different parts of New Zealand? Will we be giving details on the architectural qualities of all 6 of those shops in Holyhead next? Or a pie chart showing the colours of their staffs' respective aprons, perhaps? I get the feeling that if, heaven forfend, one of them started actually charging for their pea-water it would appear in this article the very next day! There is such thing as glut of unimportant imformation. For a start, the various details on regional names for various condiments and side dishes associated with fish and chips in Britain and Ireland alone could be shifted into another article that it wouldn't clog up this one quite so much, along with the various other mind-numbing minutiae on the different species of fish claimed to be eaten in this manner in practically every town on earth... Just a thought! 86.29.193.217 (talk) 19:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Haddock Triangle
I've never heard this term before, despite spending the first 18 years of my life within the Triangle. I'm fairly sure that haddock is the standard fish on offer in most chippies in the North of England, with some exceptions such as in Tyneside (cod/plaice), although Tyneside doesn't seem to have such a high density of chippies compared to West Yorkshire. This so-called Triangle does however definitely have one peculiarity: fish is religiously prepared without the "dark" skin on one side of the fish; in areas outside of the Triangle fish was almost always served "with skin", and therefore, not as pallatable as the "native fare" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.142.133 (talk) 01:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
That seems to be a nort/south thing
Nearly all chippies in the south of england leave the skin on, while virtually no chippies in Scotland (both the borders and up north) leave it on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.153.191 (talk) 01:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Style
Surely all the instances like "Scotting people prefer X" should be replaced with more neutral and accurate terms such as "X is more common in Scotland"? Turkeyphant 16:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Total overhaul needed
This page has gradually accumulated so much completely unsourced original reporting that it is next to useless as a reliable descriptive document. This has been brought up several times in the past but nothing has been done about it.
I was originally just going to split all the unsourced regional crap out into its own article, but the resulting page would just be a hodge-podge of utter trivia with next to no sourcing. So I'm just getting rid of it.
Hopefully one this has been completed, the page will be compact, verifiable and complete enough at least for Good Article status.
Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 17:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Let's face it, the term "fish and chips" originated in the UK and was popularized from there (though by Italians!). Fish was fried all over the world from the time fire was invented but it wasn't called fish and chips, even after the introduction of the potato. I agree that the older versions contained some interesting information, but those versions also contained a considerable amount of trivia, unsourced info and duplication which made them very ungainly, and I think the present version is a lot more balanced. There's nothing stopping anyone adding to it (though with sources, of course). Hohenloh + 12:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- The Italian angle on the emergence of fish and chips in the UK (esp. in Scotland) is an interesting one. "La sagra del pesce e patate" in Barga, Tuscany is an example of celebrating this. The real origin of fish and chips in the UK might even come from a combination of Wallonian Belgian pommes frites (http://www.newstatesman.com/200601230017) with Sephardi Jewish fried fish from Portugal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3380151.stm). This might be a stretch of the imagination and seems to have no historical basis so far but might be worth investigating in as far is that it possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.1.245.117 (talk) 00:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Mushy peas
Do others agree that this article should mention mushy peas as a traditional accompaniment to fish and chips? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.198.71 (talk) 21:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Of course! I was shocked to see no mention of mushy peas! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.203.192 (talk) 11:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
National Federation of Fish Friers
There should be a link to the industry body of fish and chips on this page. The National Federation has been steering the industry and looking after its members since around 1930. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.150.10 (talk) 08:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
That sounds like POV. The industry body should certainly be mentioned, but not pushing it. Advertising is their concern, not ours. We do this voluntarily. Si Trew (talk) 13:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Chipper
As a life-long resident of the south of England, I have heard a fish and chip shop referred to as a "chippie" a lot, but I have never heard it called a "chipper". The cited webpage (Chippy smells of chips complaint) appears to be used as a source of evidence for this term, but in fact it does not include the word "chipper" at all. Perhaps this is a regional term, but as it is, this must be classified as an unsourced statement in this article. leevclarke (talk) 23:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Photos
Many of the photos show fish and french fries, which is an altogether different thing from fish and chips. French fries are much thinner, and give the meal a totally different aspect. Please, can we just have photos of fish and chips in an article on fish and chips??? 86.133.210.177 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:07, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
Are you sure that distinction is really established? Certainly in most of the USA any type of deep fried potato strips are called 'Fries' or 'French Fries', and as I understood it in the UK the same is true with the term 'Chips'. robo (talk) 21:41, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- Robo is correct although, in the UK, French Fries are sometimes considered to be a particular variety of chips because very skinny, flavourless chips (with a high fat content and which go cold as soon as they are removed from the fryer) are often sold by the main international fast food chains as "French Fries" or "fries". As far as I know, the French embassy has not formally objected to this slander of French cuisine.
- The chips shown in most of the pictures are fairly skinny but only the Hesburger image shows really horribly skinny ones (and the fish looks horrible too). The lead image shows medium size chips and is representative of what you would typically get from a British chip shop. All the images are perfectly legitimate images of fish and chips. An additional image showing some chunkier chips would be nice, but the images we have at the moment are perfectly valid. We may have an idea of what constitutes a prefect portion of fish and chips, and that idea probably does include nice chunky chips, but that isn't always what you get when you buy fish and chips and we shouldn't pretend that it is. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:16, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Sauces
Regarding extras such as curry sauce, etc - it may have been only Northern England and Wales in the past... although I can't remember that - but having lived within both Devon, and Kent, I can say that this isn't the case now - not sure quite how or where to find a citation for either assertion though. 144.124.16.33 (talk) 02:43, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
- You can still get curry sauce in chippies here in Devon, but I think it's mainly to complement chips, rather than fish & chips. That is, curry and chips or fish and chips, but not curry, fish and chips. same goes with cheese. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Vinegar, doesn't it spoil the fish?
Condiment for fish and chips — People commonly use malt vinegar (or non-brewed condiment) on chips. I don't quite understand why it is used on chips and fish. Doesn't it spoil the flavour? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsk nsk (talk • contribs) 16:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
- Depends if you like vinegar or not :) The vinegar is mainly to counteract all the oil - compare lemon, or tartare sauce with other fish dishes. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Chicken tikka masala
I would like to know if chicken Tikka Masala is today more popular than fish and chips to take away — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juanaall (talk • contribs) 19:35, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Is it today Chicken Tikka Masala more popular than fish and chips? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juanaall (talk • contribs) 19:38, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
The Chicken tikka masala article says it's the most popular restaurant dish, but says nothing about takeaways. Let's see: "In 2008 over 250 million fish and chip shop meals (featuring fish) were sold throughout the UK, proving that UK's fish and chip shops are still the nation's favourite hot takeaway outlet," according to a chip shop chain's website
"Where the British choose to eat
· 51% Fish and chip outlets · 46% Meal down the local pub. Meals served in pubs and bars are the largest market within the eating out sector with sales of £7.6 billion. · 45% Chinese takeaways and restaurants · 35% Pizza takeaways and restaurants · 31% Indian takeaways and restaurants"
- from a web page for fast food businesses. it looks like fish and chips are still number one, then. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)