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:::The exchange deal was not a hostage exchange deal, but a POW exchange deal. -- [[User:PhJ|PhJ]] ([[User talk:PhJ|talk]]) 20:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
:::The exchange deal was not a hostage exchange deal, but a POW exchange deal. -- [[User:PhJ|PhJ]] ([[User talk:PhJ|talk]]) 20:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
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::::We've already provided sources above of PACE, BBC & VoA regarding them as hostages. Do you have a [[WP:RS]] that supports that they were not hostages? Because what you're saying now without sources is [[WP:OR]]. — [[User:CuriousGolden|<b style="color:#c29d25">Curious</b><b style="color:#c29d25">Golden</b>]] <b style="solid black"> [[User talk:CuriousGolden|(T·]][[Special:Contribs/CuriousGolden|C)]] </b> 20:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
::::We've already provided sources above of PACE, BBC & VoA regarding them as hostages. Do you have a [[WP:RS]] that supports that they were not hostages? Because what you're saying now without sources is [[WP:OR]]. — [[User:CuriousGolden|<b style="color:#c29d25">Curious</b><b style="color:#c29d25">Golden</b>]] <b style="solid black"> [[User talk:CuriousGolden|(T·]][[Special:Contribs/CuriousGolden|C)]] </b> 20:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:You're still violating [[WP:CONSENSUS]] with your edits. I'd remind you that your friend was already blocked for edit warring. --► Sincerely: '''[[User:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:black">Sola</span>]][[User talk:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC; color:#560605">Virum</span>]]''' 20:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{U|PhJ}}, again, as you didn't care about my previous call for [[WP:CONSENSUS]], I'm giving you a warning. If you continue with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dilgam_Asgarov_and_Shahbaz_Guliyev&diff=994458532&oldid=994456684 this], I will report you. --► Sincerely: '''[[User:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:black">Sola</span>]][[User talk:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC; color:#560605">Virum</span>]]''' 20:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:He's still [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dilgam_Asgarov_and_Shahbaz_Guliyev&diff=994459654&oldid=994458780 edit warring]. --► Sincerely: '''[[User:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:black">Sola</span>]][[User talk:Solavirum|<span style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC; color:#560605">Virum</span>]]''' 20:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 20:54, 15 December 2020
Azerbaijan Unassessed | ||||||||||
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One-sided
Article almost only exposes the Azeri version of the events. Will try to add more information to the article.--HCPUNXKID 16:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Properly explain what parts of the article you think is POV and STORY per Template:POV and WP:RESPTAG before adding the tags as there's no way we can know what to fix if you don't provide proper reasons. "only exposes Azeri version" isn't a proper reason. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 16:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
CuriousGolden, Solavirum - please read Wikipedia rules first and then edit the articles, this is not a place for propaganda. --Vmakenas (talk) 17:15, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, this is not a place for propaganda, like how you tried to show this incident as a terrorist attack. Instead of name calling, try to read the guidelines thoroughly. You've only cited Armenian media outlets and claim that I'm the one to write propaganda? What a joke. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Vmakenas, you either chill out and try to achieve consensus, or you're getting reported. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- 1. I'm citing both Azerbaijani and Armenian sources; 2. Isn't taking hostages and killing civilians a terrorist attack? --Vmakenas (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- The article already cites both Armenian and Azerbaijani sources. Also, no, that's your own interpretation of the events. For as all I can care, the Armenian government might be lying. And trying to call the place Karvachar shows that you don't care about NPOV. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- The article should be written by independent authors. The versions by CuriousGolden and Solavirum are unacceptable. The best solution would be to find other authors who know all the different sources and avoid bias. The tag "NPOV" was totally correct. -- PhJ (talk) 17:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- 1. I'm citing both Azerbaijani and Armenian sources; 2. Isn't taking hostages and killing civilians a terrorist attack? --Vmakenas (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Vmakenas, you either chill out and try to achieve consensus, or you're getting reported. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, this is not a place for propaganda, like how you tried to show this incident as a terrorist attack. Instead of name calling, try to read the guidelines thoroughly. You've only cited Armenian media outlets and claim that I'm the one to write propaganda? What a joke. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Page title
This page has been moved to different titles many times. I'm not sure I agree with the current title. The current title would make this article a kind of 2-person biography. Since these two individuals don't seem to be notable outside of the events described in this article, they are most likely not notable people per WP:BIO1E. However, the event itself may still be notable. If that's the case, then the title of the article should reference the event, not the names of the individuals.
I have protected the article so that it can only be moved by an admin. Please come to an agreement on a suitable title for the article (or show how WP:BIO1E doesn't apply to these two individuals) and then ping me and I'm happy to complete the move. —ScottyWong— 01:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- How about 2014 incident in Kalbajar? --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 10:09, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- That's better, but not very descriptive. Surely there was more than one "incident" in Kalbajar in 2014? How can we better identify this particular incident?
- So far, this article has had five different titles:
- I assume none of the first three would work? —ScottyWong— 16:20, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- Well, calling it an attack is absurd and POV. Only the Armenian government alleges that they were attackers and that had killed someone. PACE calls them hostages,[1] maybe the Hostage-taking of Dilgam Asgarov and Shahbaz Guliyev, or the Hostage-taking in Kalbajar? --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:06, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Hostake taking of Dilgam and Shahbaz
sounds the best I think. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 18:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)- Is it POV to call it a "hostage-taking" when the Armenian authorities label them as prisoners of war? Or is it generally accepted in reliable sources that they were hostages? —ScottyWong— 18:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- They weren't taken during a war, so it's not correct to label them prisoners of wars and as Solavirum pointed out above, Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, a respected international organization regards them as hostages. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- BBC Azerbaijani also refers to it as hostage taking, as shown in the article. Voice of America also prefers that term. Generally, it is referred to as hostage-taking. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 19:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- They weren't taken during a war, so it's not correct to label them prisoners of wars and as Solavirum pointed out above, Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, a respected international organization regards them as hostages. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- Is it POV to call it a "hostage-taking" when the Armenian authorities label them as prisoners of war? Or is it generally accepted in reliable sources that they were hostages? —ScottyWong— 18:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- Well, calling it an attack is absurd and POV. Only the Armenian government alleges that they were attackers and that had killed someone. PACE calls them hostages,[1] maybe the Hostage-taking of Dilgam Asgarov and Shahbaz Guliyev, or the Hostage-taking in Kalbajar? --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 17:06, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- And even Armenia regards them as a hostage as they've returned them as part of the hostage exchange deal. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 20:17, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- There has been no international consensus on the character of the incident. Therefore, it should have a neutral title, e.g. 2014 Kalbajar incident (or 2014 Karvachar incident, as it was under Armenian / NKR control at that time). "Hostage-taking in Kalbajar" would definitely be POV. -- PhJ (talk) 20:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- The exchange deal was not a hostage exchange deal, but a POW exchange deal. -- PhJ (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- We've already provided sources above of PACE, BBC & VoA regarding them as hostages. Do you have a WP:RS that supports that they were not hostages? Because what you're saying now without sources is WP:OR. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 20:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- The exchange deal was not a hostage exchange deal, but a POW exchange deal. -- PhJ (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- There has been no international consensus on the character of the incident. Therefore, it should have a neutral title, e.g. 2014 Kalbajar incident (or 2014 Karvachar incident, as it was under Armenian / NKR control at that time). "Hostage-taking in Kalbajar" would definitely be POV. -- PhJ (talk) 20:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- You're still violating WP:CONSENSUS with your edits. I'd remind you that your friend was already blocked for edit warring. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 20:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- PhJ, again, as you didn't care about my previous call for WP:CONSENSUS, I'm giving you a warning. If you continue with this, I will report you. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 20:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- He's still edit warring. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 20:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
References