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*'''Oppose''' purely on the fact that [[WP:NCC]] doesn't ''specifically'' state that the character article should have the "(comics)" disambiguator. In fact, unless [[WP:NCC]] gets updated, my belief is that the better option is to '''retarget {{No redirect|Wolverine (comics)}} to [[Wolverine (disambiguation)#Marvel Comics media]]'''. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 14:17, 14 August 2014 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose''' purely on the fact that [[WP:NCC]] doesn't ''specifically'' state that the character article should have the "(comics)" disambiguator. In fact, unless [[WP:NCC]] gets updated, my belief is that the better option is to '''retarget {{No redirect|Wolverine (comics)}} to [[Wolverine (disambiguation)#Marvel Comics media]]'''. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 14:17, 14 August 2014 (UTC) |
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**I think that makes a lot of sense. [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly Turkey]] ⚞[[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']]⚟ 14:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC) |
**I think that makes a lot of sense. [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly Turkey]] ⚞[[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']]⚟ 14:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' move. Since "Wolverine" is both the name of the character in comics and of comics about the character, [[Wolverine (comics)]] should be or route to the disambig page. c.f. [[Tintin]]. --[[User:erachima|erachima]] <small>[[User talk:erachima|talk]]</small> 15:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:03, 14 August 2014
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Fictography
For many of the same reasons given at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fictional history of Wolverine (3rd nomination), WikiProject Comics does not do such incredibly over-detailed, in-universe Fictional character biographies. ("The team's first mission pitted them against a clone of the Red Skull who had grafted Professor X's brain onto his own.") It needs to be severely trimmed, with real-world sourcing added.
This has been standard at WPC for some time, and confirms to Wikipedia guidelines for writing about fiction. See Spider-Man and Superman as examples --Tenebrae (talk) 10:03, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
- What's wrong with mentioning the new comic book series where the character is at now? Or mentioning in a single sentence who their first enemy was? Dream Focus 10:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Medical Skills
it is shown on a number of times that Wolverine at the very least has some Medical skills. Though I do not remember the said issues that they are shown in, Wolverine has shown that he has some degree of Medical training. Well, he is a master of the human anatomy. Knows how to cause hematomas to the brain and so forth.--Boba Fett TBH (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Relationship with Storm?
I saw in the Animated Series of X-Men that Logan start a relationship with Storm; it really happens or it's only an invention for the cartoon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Silver Hawks (talk • contribs) 09:32, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Much of what's in the animated series' has little to do with the "canon" in the comics. Ckruschke (talk) 02:16, 18 October 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke
Aliases in infobox
First, we need to give these with citation in the body of the article or else cite them in the infobox — the infobox, like the rest of the article, isn't supposed to contain uncited claims. Second, since the header there says Notable aliases, I think we need to pare down what's there. How "notable" is "Revolto the Clown", for instance? --Tenebrae (talk) 20:45, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved to Wolverine (character). Jenks24 (talk) 10:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Wolverine (comics) → Wolverine (X-Men) – "Comics" sounds too generic. Unreal7 (talk) 00:06, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Comment. There is nothing wrong with a parenthetical disambiguation title having a generic class in parentheses. That said, "comics" is too close to Wolverine (comic book), and should at least be renamed to something more like Wolverine (character). Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose: Generic disambiguators are good. Generic disambiguators are easier to remember and are more standard. While Wolverine (X-Men) is bad, I am more neutral on Wolverine (character). tahc chat 20:11, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: terrible, as (X-Men) is too specific (disambigs are supposed to be general), and Wolverine has been a part of other groups as well as a solo character. Wolverine has been at Wolverine (character) in the past, and should be put back there—as Zzyzx11 says, (comics) could be confused with (comic book) (and Wolverine (comic book) does, in fact, exist); also, Wolverine has appeared in plenty of other media (film, video games, trading cards, roleplaying games), making (comics) far too specific. The article should be rewritten as an overview of the character and moved to Wolverine (character). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 22:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Comment for further disambiguation, why not Wolverine (Marvel Comics character) (this would distinguish it from the comic book title Wolverine (comic book) ) ? -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 05:54, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- The consensus is that disambiguations are to be as general as reasonable; (Marvel Comics character) is far less general than (comics), which again is less general than (character). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- "comics" is a different category of disambiguation from "character", since "comics" does not mean characters. It would be "comics characters" if it did so mean, so, the more general form would be Wolverine (comics character), as subsidiary disambiguation below "comics". -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 08:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Uh ... you wanna explain to everyone one more time how (comics character) is more general than (character)? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 11:30, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- "comics" is a different category of disambiguation from "character", since "comics" does not mean characters. It would be "comics characters" if it did so mean, so, the more general form would be Wolverine (comics character), as subsidiary disambiguation below "comics". -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 08:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- The consensus is that disambiguations are to be as general as reasonable; (Marvel Comics character) is far less general than (comics), which again is less general than (character). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: I don't really see the confusion with "comics" and "comic book", maybe later could be changed into "comic book title"?BlisterD (talk) 06:55, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Outside of North America (in Britian for instance) "comic" means "comic book". (comic book) is unambiguous. (comics) is at the very least ambiguous, but more likely simply wrong since the article is (or should be) about the character as opposed to the comics specifically. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose move to '(X-Men)' as per other comments above; favour move to "(character)". -HidariMigi (talk) 04:38, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Page move back discussion, again
Wolverine (character) → Wolverine (comics) – Move it back to what it was before as that is the naming standard. The standard is to have (comics) in the title, not (character). Are there any other (character)s out there, or is the only article? Are we going to rename Batman to Batman (character) because people might think that article is about Batman (comic book)? I notice Hulk (character) redirects to Hulk (comics) and Superman (character) redirects to Superman. Are we going to change Cyclops (comics), Storm (Marvel Comics), Colossus (comics), Nightcrawler (comics) and the rest? They all had their own comic series for awhile to, and like Wolverine, those four have names that could mean something else. I honestly don't believe anyone would confuse Wolverine (comic) with the Wolverine (comic book) at all, since they will be used to seeing the word (comic) for characters, and (comic book) for their books in other articles. (note, this is word for word the same discussion I made in the previous discussion when we moved the name back. [1]) Dream Focus 12:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note, you can look at Category:Comics characters and see that (character) is never used if they were created for a comic book, but instead when necessary to have anything at all (comics) is used except when more than one comic book character has that name, then it list the name of the comic book company publishing it such as (Marvel Comics). All related articles should follow the same naming conviction, and any change should be discussed at the appropriate wikiproject at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics. Dream Focus 12:18, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Strong oppose for all the reasons I've given in the discussion above:
- (comics) is too easily confused with (comic book) (Wolverine (comic book) exists), and Wolverine has appeared prominently in plenty of other media (film, video games, trading cards, roleplaying games), making (comics) far too specific.
- as that is the naming standard: this is untrue.
- Are there any other (character)s out there: Tintin (character), Kick-Ass (character), Dilbert (character), Garfield (character), Astro Boy (character), Asterix (character), and several other articles (such as Hulk (character)) have been at (character) before, and needlessly moved to the over-specific (comics).
- since they will be used to seeing the word (comic) for characters, and (comic book): you're suggesting the average, casual reader (the vast majority of Wikipedia's readership) would just know that (comic) meant the character and not the series? I can't twist my mind hard enough to buy that.
- Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 12:22, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Support per Dream Focus. There was no consensus to move this article again, the requested move above only proves that Wolverine (character) is preferable to Wolverine (X-Men). As I stated before, "(comics)" is sufficient disambiguation for all characters that originated in comics. Until there is a consensus to change the naming conventions in general for all comic book characters, this article should be titled Wolverine (comics), which is currently the standard per WP:NCC. Fortdj33 (talk) 12:41, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- WP:NCC was in violation of sitewide guidelines, as determined by this RFC. The article falls under WikiProject Fictional characters as much as WP:COMICS. WP:COMICS cannot claim OWNership of any article; statements such as "a consensus to change the naming conventions in general for all comic book characters" hold no weight, as WP:COMICS has no authority to override sitewide guidelines. It is not up to the community to convince WP:COMICS to change its mind—it is up to WP:COMICS to prove the legitimacy of its local consensus to the broader community. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Curly Turkey, with all due respect, I am not claiming that WP:COMICS has ownership over this issue. I agree that this article falls just as much under the scope of {{WikiProject Fictional characters}}, but WP:Naming conventions (characters) defers to WP:NCC for the naming of comic book characters. Also, per WP:NCDAB, disambiguation in general should be "the subject or context to which the topic applies". WP:NCC follows this guideline by using "(comics)", because that is where the character originated from. And when I say that there hasn't been "a consensus to change the naming conventions in general for all comic book characters", I am not speaking for WP:COMICS, I am just pointing out that there is no consensus for "(character)" to take precedence over "(comics)". Just because you believe otherwise, does not mean that anyone else is calling for WP:NCC to conform to some "broader community" consensus. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- (Comics) as a disambiguator needs to conform to the Article titles policy, so it can only be used when there's no likely confusion between two articles. Even if there's no precedence between (comics) and (character), the second does not conflict with policy as there are no other articles about characters with this name. Diego (talk) 14:26, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- In fact, reading Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(comics) in detail, it does support (character) taking precedence over (comics) "when comics is applicable to more than one article of the same name", which is exactly the situation here. So far for the idea that (Comics) is supported by the guideline. If I understand the guideline correctly, what is written would suggest moving the article to John Logan (comics). Diego (talk) 14:49, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- (Comics) as a disambiguator needs to conform to the Article titles policy, so it can only be used when there's no likely confusion between two articles. Even if there's no precedence between (comics) and (character), the second does not conflict with policy as there are no other articles about characters with this name. Diego (talk) 14:26, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Curly Turkey, with all due respect, I am not claiming that WP:COMICS has ownership over this issue. I agree that this article falls just as much under the scope of {{WikiProject Fictional characters}}, but WP:Naming conventions (characters) defers to WP:NCC for the naming of comic book characters. Also, per WP:NCDAB, disambiguation in general should be "the subject or context to which the topic applies". WP:NCC follows this guideline by using "(comics)", because that is where the character originated from. And when I say that there hasn't been "a consensus to change the naming conventions in general for all comic book characters", I am not speaking for WP:COMICS, I am just pointing out that there is no consensus for "(character)" to take precedence over "(comics)". Just because you believe otherwise, does not mean that anyone else is calling for WP:NCC to conform to some "broader community" consensus. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
" Informing editors who have previously engaged in this discussion: @Diego Moya:, @Nicknack009:, @Tenebrae:, @Jhenderson777:, @GRuban:, @KillerChihuahua:, @Matticusmadness:, @Unreal7:, @Zzyzx11:, @Tahc:, @BlisterD:, @HidariMigi:, @Ckruschke:, @Staberinde:, @Alpha Quadrant:, @Unreal7:, @Robsinden: ——— Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:22, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Support per Dream Focus. We have been here before, and the people (and closer) from the recent discussion were probably unaware of that. BOZ (talk) 13:24, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Calm and firm Oppose per WP:PRECISION: titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, and (Comics) is clearly not enough to distinguish this character article from the content of Wolverine (comic book), which is also about the name Wolverine in the context of comics. The RfC at the Manual of Style made it clear that using (Comics) as a universal disambiguator even for ambiguous titles did not have community support.
- Also note the rationale at the move request is an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument - those articles may be named with (Comics) as long as no other article covers those same names in comics, and if there are other articles that are named against WP:PRECISION they should be moved too. I concur that WikiProject Comics cannot override community guidelines per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. Diego (talk) 13:35, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose - some people might think that "Wolverine" is a type of comic book, as opposed to a fictional character. Unreal7 (talk) 13:44, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose: I was already thinking of making an oppose on this given the result of 'Requested Move' above, but what Diego said about a title needing to correctly cover the scope properly convinced me this is a good vote.
- On another note, where have I been involved in this before? I don't see my UN in the History. MM (I did the who in the whatnow?) (I did it!) 14:02, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- You took part in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (comics). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 14:35, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose purely on the fact that WP:NCC doesn't specifically state that the character article should have the "(comics)" disambiguator. In fact, unless WP:NCC gets updated, my belief is that the better option is to retarget Wolverine (comics) to Wolverine (disambiguation)#Marvel Comics media. Steel1943 (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- I think that makes a lot of sense. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 14:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose move. Since "Wolverine" is both the name of the character in comics and of comics about the character, Wolverine (comics) should be or route to the disambig page. c.f. Tintin. --erachima talk 15:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)