→Move?: relist |
In ictu oculi (talk | contribs) |
||
Line 21: | Line 21: | ||
* The previous mover wrote in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=move&user=&page=Tom%C3%A1s+%C3%93+Criomhthain&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= the move log]: "Most common name in English language sources – 2020 in Google Books compared to 438 for "Tomás Ó Criomhthain". This move needs a discussion. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC) |
* The previous mover wrote in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=move&user=&page=Tom%C3%A1s+%C3%93+Criomhthain&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= the move log]: "Most common name in English language sources – 2020 in Google Books compared to 438 for "Tomás Ó Criomhthain". This move needs a discussion. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC) |
||
* I agree this should have been discussed before it was moved, though I do not necessarily disagree with the current title. Per [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles#Naming people]], an Irish name should be used only if "it enjoys widespread usage among English speakers". If not, the English name should be used even if the person himself only spoke Irish and only used the Irish version of his name. The canonical example is [[Geoffrey Keating]], whose article is NOT (and should not be) at [[Seathrún Céitinn]]. If it's true that O'Crohan is best known as O'Crohan in English, then that's the name we should use, regardless of what he called himself. ''However'', I am suspicious of the current spelling "Tomas O'Crohan". I suspect that if he is best known by the English version of his name, then what he's best known by is actually "[[Thomas O'Crohan]]" with an "h" in "Thomas". Note that even if the article name is the English name, the words bolded in the opening sentence should still be the Irish name, following our usual practice for people with non-English names (e.g. [[Ovid]], whose opening sentence begins '''Publius Ovidius Naso''') [[User:Angr|Angr]] ([[User talk:Angr|talk]]) 15:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC) |
* I agree this should have been discussed before it was moved, though I do not necessarily disagree with the current title. Per [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles#Naming people]], an Irish name should be used only if "it enjoys widespread usage among English speakers". If not, the English name should be used even if the person himself only spoke Irish and only used the Irish version of his name. The canonical example is [[Geoffrey Keating]], whose article is NOT (and should not be) at [[Seathrún Céitinn]]. If it's true that O'Crohan is best known as O'Crohan in English, then that's the name we should use, regardless of what he called himself. ''However'', I am suspicious of the current spelling "Tomas O'Crohan". I suspect that if he is best known by the English version of his name, then what he's best known by is actually "[[Thomas O'Crohan]]" with an "h" in "Thomas". Note that even if the article name is the English name, the words bolded in the opening sentence should still be the Irish name, following our usual practice for people with non-English names (e.g. [[Ovid]], whose opening sentence begins '''Publius Ovidius Naso''') [[User:Angr|Angr]] ([[User talk:Angr|talk]]) 15:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC) |
||
*'''Support''' - restore. A lot of those Google hits are in old books, generalist passing mentions, or in brackets behind the Irish name. '''Also''' as an item of procedure I believe that a redirect lock (in this case an inadvertent/automatic redirect lock, not gaming) should not prevent normal WP:BRD and make restore RMs start from the wrong end. This should explicit as a guideline/policy on [[WP:RM]]. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 04:31, 10 January 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:31, 10 January 2013
Biography Start‑class | ||||||||||
|
Ireland Start‑class Mid‑importance | |||||||||||||
|
Article needs major cleanup
The tone of this article is inappropriate. It reads like a fanpage for the author, if such a thing were imaginable. It also contains no inline references. The object of this article is not to advertise the quality of Ó Criomhthain's work to readers who haven't read it yet, but to provide verifiable information about him and his work. The reason for this is that the quality of his work is not seriously disputed. We badly need secondary literature about him to back up what is said in this article, because right now it is in violation of WP:NPOV in the most obvious way. I will do what I can, but my Irish is limited. Hopefully better Irish speakers than I will come forward. Lexo (talk) 23:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this article has never been seriously revised by anyone since it was first drafted in 2005. For an acknowledged classic of Irish-language literature, that's pretty scandalous, especially given the amateurish quality of the initial draft, which had nothing going for it except enthusiasm. I do not like to be in a position where the best I can do to improve an article is complain about it, but for now it's all I can do. In the meantime, I urge Irish speakers to provide, at the very least, inline citations for statements made about the book's content. Lexo (talk) 00:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Move?
Tomas O'Crohan → Tomás Ó Criomhthain –
- Cannot move it myself because of an existing page name. The article is about a native Irish-speaking writer who wrote in the Irish language, who spoke very little English, whose name was Tomás Ó Criomhthain. An English Wikipedia editor recently moved the article to rename it, but this was an error. This requested rename is to correct that error and to revert the article to its original, seven-year-old title. --Relisted Tyrol5 [Talk] 02:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC) — O'Dea (talk) 16:48, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- The previous mover wrote in the move log: "Most common name in English language sources – 2020 in Google Books compared to 438 for "Tomás Ó Criomhthain". This move needs a discussion. EdJohnston (talk) 20:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- I agree this should have been discussed before it was moved, though I do not necessarily disagree with the current title. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles#Naming people, an Irish name should be used only if "it enjoys widespread usage among English speakers". If not, the English name should be used even if the person himself only spoke Irish and only used the Irish version of his name. The canonical example is Geoffrey Keating, whose article is NOT (and should not be) at Seathrún Céitinn. If it's true that O'Crohan is best known as O'Crohan in English, then that's the name we should use, regardless of what he called himself. However, I am suspicious of the current spelling "Tomas O'Crohan". I suspect that if he is best known by the English version of his name, then what he's best known by is actually "Thomas O'Crohan" with an "h" in "Thomas". Note that even if the article name is the English name, the words bolded in the opening sentence should still be the Irish name, following our usual practice for people with non-English names (e.g. Ovid, whose opening sentence begins Publius Ovidius Naso) Angr (talk) 15:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Support - restore. A lot of those Google hits are in old books, generalist passing mentions, or in brackets behind the Irish name. Also as an item of procedure I believe that a redirect lock (in this case an inadvertent/automatic redirect lock, not gaming) should not prevent normal WP:BRD and make restore RMs start from the wrong end. This should explicit as a guideline/policy on WP:RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:31, 10 January 2013 (UTC)