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:::*{{ping|RadiationGhoul}} *I do want to make this clear: We aren't trying to erase her statement, we are trying to confirm it in the clearest sense of the word...literally. I do see where people are coming from where "ace" could be considered other things, but I know it's basically one thing. So, with BLPs (Biographies of Living Persons) we have to sometimes wait for better sources. I appreciate your help on this as does everyone else. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #FF7518;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">Neutralhomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;">Talk</span>]] • 00:17 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)</small> |
:::*{{ping|RadiationGhoul}} *I do want to make this clear: We aren't trying to erase her statement, we are trying to confirm it in the clearest sense of the word...literally. I do see where people are coming from where "ace" could be considered other things, but I know it's basically one thing. So, with BLPs (Biographies of Living Persons) we have to sometimes wait for better sources. I appreciate your help on this as does everyone else. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #FF7518;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">Neutralhomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;">Talk</span>]] • 00:17 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)</small> |
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::::*{{ping|Neutralhomer}}I do, somewhat, understand the hesitance. However given the context of having it in her bio, I don't see how it could have any other meaning. I saw in the BLP board someone said it could mean a guitar or a plane. She has in her bio on twitter that she's "Insomniac. Human. Ace.". She's not saying she's a biplane, she's not saying she's a guitar. She's saying she's asexual. Even here on wiki, the first sentence of the asexual page states the term "ace". I do understand that you aren't trying to erase her statement. I'm trying to help shed light on why the exclusion of this, when it's a statement that came directly from her, is causing anger in the ace community. If you look at who she's following on Twitter, directly after making the tweet she began following multiple Asexual accounts. I highly doubt media will cover her asexuality, as it's something usually overlooked and ignored. <small><span class="autosigned">—[[User:RadiationGhoul(UTC)|RadiationGhoul(UTC)]] ([[User talk:RadiationGhoul(UTC)|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RadiationGhoul(UTC)|contribs]]) 00:58, January 22, 2020 (UTC)</span></small> |
::::*{{ping|Neutralhomer}}I do, somewhat, understand the hesitance. However given the context of having it in her bio, I don't see how it could have any other meaning. I saw in the BLP board someone said it could mean a guitar or a plane. She has in her bio on twitter that she's "Insomniac. Human. Ace.". She's not saying she's a biplane, she's not saying she's a guitar. She's saying she's asexual. Even here on wiki, the first sentence of the asexual page states the term "ace". I do understand that you aren't trying to erase her statement. I'm trying to help shed light on why the exclusion of this, when it's a statement that came directly from her, is causing anger in the ace community. If you look at who she's following on Twitter, directly after making the tweet she began following multiple Asexual accounts. I highly doubt media will cover her asexuality, as it's something usually overlooked and ignored. <small><span class="autosigned">—[[User:RadiationGhoul(UTC)|RadiationGhoul(UTC)]] ([[User talk:RadiationGhoul(UTC)|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RadiationGhoul(UTC)|contribs]]) 00:58, January 22, 2020 (UTC)</span></small> |
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:::::*{{ping|RadiationGhoul}} I understand and I am actively trying to communicate with the asexual community on Twitter right now to help them understand the goings-on here at Wikipedia. But you raise a good point, since it is in her bio (of a verified account) that should be enough. I want to bring in {{u|Ritchie333}} on this (since he is an admin): Since Pauley has added this to her Twitter bio and clearly she isn't saying she is a guitar or plane and she is following asexual Twitter accounts, could we consider that enough for inclusion? - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #FF7518;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">Neutralhomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;">Talk</span>]] • 01:55 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)</small> |
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== Indignation == |
== Indignation == |
Revision as of 01:55, 22 January 2020
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Religion in infobox
According to Template:Infobox person#Parameters, the religion parameter (or in this case, "denomination") should only be used if relevant/significant to the article subject (meaning: if it's notable to her career or persona). There's been a discussion on the Elvis Presley talk page as to whether to include religion in his IB, so if there's a question about its notability for him, then I would say that it definitely wouldn't notable for her. —Musdan77 (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
- She has mentioned on her official Twitter account and in a couple interviews that she is UMC Methodist. She has been interviewed for local LA stations while doing activities at her church. She has a "Chucks at Church" feature on her Twitter account as well. Featuring people wearing their Chucks (she wears them too) at church. She has even participated in church services. I'm not sure what the UMC calls it, but at my church (ELCA Lutheran) we call it an "Assisting Minister" (even though those who assist aren't really ministers).
- So Religion is very big for her and is referenced numerous times in various articles and reports, even which church she goes to church at. In this case, this is notable and easily referenced. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:26 on September 16, 2016 (UTC)
Virginia Slims
Pauley was the spokesperson for Virginia Slims cigarettes, why is this not in there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.50.20 (talk) 01:04, September 25, 2017 (UTC)
- Probably because it is not notable, or there are no reliable sources to support the claim. - FlightTime (open channel) 02:17, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
- Struggling actress booked by advertising agency for X commercial is not exactly my concept of spokesperson for X. How many of the other products for which she appeared in commercials are listed in the article? That is why it's not there and should not be. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 16:31, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Coming out on Twitter
Consensus is needed for this adition, also see following reverts and summaries. - FlightTime Phone (open channel) 19:11, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- WP:TWITTER is part of WP:V, which is policy. Since she said it on her official Twitter account, it's like we are quoting her directly. Same goes for official Facebook and Instagram (and other social media) accounts as well. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:20 on January 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Full disclosure, I have asked for outside advice from the BLP noticeboard. Since this is a BLP, I thought their advice would be worthy of inclusion in this discussion. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:28 on January 20, 2020 (UTC)
- I know responses to the tweet are interpreting it as a declaration, but it isn't clear that it is one. The way it's worded (
Aces, it is actually me.
) can be read as a tweet directed to Aces, especially since the prior tweet wasFor the BILLIONTH TIME: I am NOT ON @instagram! That @realpauleyp and all other "PAULEY" accounts are FAKE!!!Please report them and do not follow.They're stealing my @twitter content.I am also NOT ON @FACEBOOK THIS @PAULEYP @TWITTER account is my ONLY social media account
. I would want either a clearer self-declaration or independent coverage before putting it in a BLP. Schazjmd (talk) 19:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC) - Pauley Perrette also updated her twitter bio to include "Ace", which is the very excepted shortening of Asexual.
Official Tweets of Actor Pauley Perrette Civil Rights/Community Activist, singer/songwriter Insomniac. Human. Ace.
. For me this very clearly states her coming out as asexual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.234.97.66 (talk) 15:33, January 21, 2020 (UTC)
- The word "ace" has many meanings. We need an unambiguous self-identification. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:02, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Neutralhomer: Why are you adding unsourced content to a BLP and while there's an ongoing discussion and editwarring. Stop it. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:23, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- I have readded the sentence with the Twitter reference...BUT, I have commented the entire section out. Saying that it's addition is currently being discussed here and the need for secondary third-party reliable sources. I hope, for the time being, this will quell outside editors from adding and readding the section over and over while we are discussing this here. @FlightTime:, if you would have given me more time than say, 10 seconds, what I was doing would have been made clear. Also, I said what I was doing on your talk page. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:24 on January 21, 2020 (UTC)
I have fully protected the article for 24 hours. I have decided to leave the article in the state without any of the information under dispute, commented or not, which is my understanding of policy (WP:PREFER - "When protecting a page because of a content dispute, administrators have a duty to avoid protecting a version that contains policy-violating content, such as ... poor-quality coverage of living people") and not intended to favour any side of the debate. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 23:27, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- Why add something unsourced toa BLP then comment it out, seem like a pure case of POV pushing to me, drop the damn stick. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:28, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- @FlightTime: It stops people from adding it, edit warring about it, and moves them to this discussion. It shows them, it is added, but we need to discuss it and what the discussion is about so it doesn't go sideways like 2J14 thought that we have a problem with people who are asexual, but that we need more sources, references.
- @Ritchie333: It wasn't a content dispute, but that FlightTime wouldn't let me finish what I was doing without going to warp speed typing. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:34 on January 21, 2020 (UTC)
- @Neutralhomer:Damn it, you don't fuck around with a BLP. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:44, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- Might want to dial it back a little bit. Had you listened to what I said on your talk page and gave me a minute, none of this would have happened. But it did, so, it gives us more time to discuss. So, let's discuss. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:05 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)
- @Neutralhomer:Damn it, you don't fuck around with a BLP. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:44, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- I recently made an account. I'm the one who made the initial edit adding her statement of sexuality. Ace does not have many terms when referring to yourself. What would need to be provided for this to be accepted? Does she need to make a post stating asexual instead of ace? —RadiationGhoul(UTC) (talk • contribs) 16:46, January 21, 2020 (UTC)
- @RadiationGhoul: Yes, that would be perfect. Short of media coverage, a second tweet with clearer language would be perfect. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:03 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)
- @Neutralhomer:Perfect, thank you. The reason why people are so adamant is because asexuality has a history of being erased, told its not real. There are several asexual groups she has already been speaking directly with, who are reaching out to her to see if she would be willing to make a statement that would be accepted as "clear" by wiki. If she does I'll a note here. —RadiationGhoul(UTC) (talk • contribs) 16:46, January 21, 2020 (UTC)
- @RadiationGhoul: *I do want to make this clear: We aren't trying to erase her statement, we are trying to confirm it in the clearest sense of the word...literally. I do see where people are coming from where "ace" could be considered other things, but I know it's basically one thing. So, with BLPs (Biographies of Living Persons) we have to sometimes wait for better sources. I appreciate your help on this as does everyone else. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:17 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)
- @Neutralhomer:I do, somewhat, understand the hesitance. However given the context of having it in her bio, I don't see how it could have any other meaning. I saw in the BLP board someone said it could mean a guitar or a plane. She has in her bio on twitter that she's "Insomniac. Human. Ace.". She's not saying she's a biplane, she's not saying she's a guitar. She's saying she's asexual. Even here on wiki, the first sentence of the asexual page states the term "ace". I do understand that you aren't trying to erase her statement. I'm trying to help shed light on why the exclusion of this, when it's a statement that came directly from her, is causing anger in the ace community. If you look at who she's following on Twitter, directly after making the tweet she began following multiple Asexual accounts. I highly doubt media will cover her asexuality, as it's something usually overlooked and ignored. —RadiationGhoul(UTC) (talk • contribs) 00:58, January 22, 2020 (UTC)
- @RadiationGhoul: I understand and I am actively trying to communicate with the asexual community on Twitter right now to help them understand the goings-on here at Wikipedia. But you raise a good point, since it is in her bio (of a verified account) that should be enough. I want to bring in Ritchie333 on this (since he is an admin): Since Pauley has added this to her Twitter bio and clearly she isn't saying she is a guitar or plane and she is following asexual Twitter accounts, could we consider that enough for inclusion? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:55 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)
Indignation
Why do you remove a paragraph from where you say you are asexual? problem with that? 2J14 (talk) 23:24, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- There is no problem, it's the language. She used the word "ace". Now, I understand it clearly, but others, not so much. So, we are waiting on secondary third-party reliable sources (ie: media coverage or another tweet confirming the first in clearer language). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:28 on January 21, 2020 (UTC)
Protected edit request on 22 January 2020
Within reference citation template following "In addition to acting, Perrette is a poet,"
please change
title=https://www.washingtonpost.com › ... Naval Gazing With Pauley Perrette
to
title=Naval Gazing With Pauley Perrette
AND change
url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/
to
url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/tv/2005/08/21/naval-gazing-with-pauley-perrette/f7e9af82-fda7-47c9-8b48-a0a00a4fa4c0/