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Kim Kardashian's statement on having compassion for Kanye given his bipolar disorder appears to me to be a necessary piece to add to this article, as his mania provides the context for this whole "campaign". I had avoided adding something about it prior as it would have been [[WP:SYNTH]]. This meets BLP and NPOV standards, depending on how we write it.[https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/07/22/kanye-west-wife-kim-kardashian-speaks-out-his-mental-health/5477065002/] – [[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]] ([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 18:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC) |
Kim Kardashian's statement on having compassion for Kanye given his bipolar disorder appears to me to be a necessary piece to add to this article, as his mania provides the context for this whole "campaign". I had avoided adding something about it prior as it would have been [[WP:SYNTH]]. This meets BLP and NPOV standards, depending on how we write it.[https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/07/22/kanye-west-wife-kim-kardashian-speaks-out-his-mental-health/5477065002/] – [[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]] ([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 18:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC) |
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== Reverts by User:Nice4What == |
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User:Nice4What, you have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kanye_West_2020_presidential_campaign&type=revision&diff=969374609&oldid=969359074 removed] [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] from the article that characterize Michelle Tidball, Kanye West's running mate, as a Christian. You have also removed a reference detailing Kanye West's alignment with the Christian right. Please explain your edits here before reverting. Thank you. With regards, [[User:Anupam|Anupam]]<sup>[[User talk:Anupam|Talk]]</sup> 01:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC) |
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Did you know nomination
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Seven Pandas (talk) 15:06, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- ... that Kanye West announced his 2020 presidential campaign on Twitter? Source: https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9413556/kanye-west-presidential-run-2020
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Børge Ring
- Comment: Currently being expanded but already meets the minimum length; very much a collaboration by multiple editors so I suggest checking the history when this is closer to the main page to determine authorship credits
Created by DannyS712 (talk) and Nice4What (talk). Nominated by DannyS712 (talk) at 03:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC).
- @DannyS712: @Amariokart: @Nice4What: Date and length fine as is the Billboard source in the lead. No close paraphrasing aside of quotes and QPQ done. However this is currently undergoing a AFD so this nomination cannot proceed until that is complete and it is looking unlikely at the moment. If the AFD is closed as keep, this can move forward. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:26, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- @DannyS712 and The C of E: Could I propose an alternative blurb considering the recent developments in his campaign? Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that Kanye West's advisors for his 2020 presidential campaign are his wife Kim Kardashian and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk?
- ALT2: ... that Kanye West is running under the "Birthday Party" for his 2020 presidential campaign, because "when we win, it's everybody's birthday"?
- Got no response but want to put out these proposals anyways. Making announcements via Twitter is no longer unusual in this Trump era. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Update: @The C of E: AfD closed and the article was kept, so this can move forward. There are probably better hooks, and the credits definitely should be updated to reflect the bigger contributors --DannyS712 (talk) 10:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good then. Well with the new ones, I think ALT2 is the most quirky so I'd go for that one to be promoted. Good to go, rest of review as above. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:12, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Specious endorsement list
I'm removing most of the names (as of 2020-07-09) that are blindly listed in Kanye West 2020 presidential campaign#Endorsements with no qualification, statement of how long it lasted, or any further explanation, all based on single-line, fleeting social media posts (and sometimes even ignoring contradictory follow-ups). The stretch that needs to be made to interpret any of these as solid endorsements requires a non-neutral pro-sensationalism bias, sometimes picking which sources validate the view, and is often just Wikipedia editors selectively interpreting everything themselves. Included in the fever-dream WP:ITEXISTS rush to pile on:
- Elon Musk, according to the given source, sent the tweet "@kanyewest You have my full support!" (Note: Newsweek has been a questionable/tabloid source since 2013: see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources and the discussions linked there.) But later in the Wikipedia article, it says that Musk tweeted "We may have more differences of opinion than I anticipated" then deleted it, according to an Inside Hook article (a site of unknown reliability). (Note: Kanye also claimed in the later June 8 Forbes interview that Musk would be on his campaign, with no indication from Musk.)
- Kanye's wife Kim Kardashian replied with a single U.S. flag emoji and nothing else. From that, suddenly a Forbes breaking-news staff writer (who should know better) claims outright not only that Kayne "formally announced", but that Kardashian "publicly pledged her support, retweeting West’s statement and adding a U.S. flag emoji". Breathless fanboys on Wikipedia then use that as proof that it's an endorsement. By paragraphs 6 to 8 (after getting all the sensationalism out of the way) the writer does point out that the alleged presidential run seems questionable. When there's evidence, from Kim not Kanye, that she's actively pushing for this and not just being a supportive spouse, then that will be a different story. (Note: Kanye also claimed in the later June 8 Forbes interview that Kim would be on his campaign, with no indication from Kim.)
- Dez Bryant tweeted a line "I’m voting for Kanye west .. I didn’t judge you on your vote don’t judge me on mine 😂" — with the laughing tears emoji, then replies only eight minutes later with "I’m trying to joke and laugh a lil bit I forgot what I was on Twitter 😂" again with the laughing tears emoji. The same type of wiki editors who thought that a single emoji is an endorsement from KimK, then turned around and ignored the emojis from Bryan, and his statement that he was joking, and declared, as fact, that Bryan has endorsed.
- Darrelle Revis tweeted only the phrase "Kanye has my vote". Wiki editors immediately cited a Fox News(?!) claim that "Revis was among those who appeared to back West’s idea" and an SI.com article that actually says "It is unclear if Revis was joking about his vote or if he is seriously considering throwing his support behind a West candidacy." But who cares if the sources actually say it's in doubt, right? If you're a Kanya fanboy who doesn't understand Wikipedia policy, that's WP:RS that it should be listed as endorsement.
- Colin Moriarty tweeted "I just want to be 100% clear: I'd vote for Kanye West over both Joe Biden and Donald Trump, literally any day of the week. I don't know what that says about me, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, or Kanye West, but it's true." Wiki fanboys immediately paste in "Colin Moriarty, co-founder of Kinda Funny" as an endorsement, somehow missing the "Kinda Funny" part that indicates that he's a comedy producer, apparently on the theory that it's not proof he's joking, but it's somehow proof that he's not joking. (Also, even if it's not a joke statement, interpreting it as endorsement still requires the wiki fanboys to turn their hypocrisy up to 11 to assume that somehow Kanye's run is legit, yet the 50+ minor candidates' campaigns aren't, and therefore Moriarty's favorite is Kanye rather than the other 50+ waiting in line behind Trump and Biden.)
- Ty Dolla Sign, no evidence but a no-context Ye for president 🗣" with no follow-up. WP:SYNTH.
- 2 Chainz apparently just posted a screenshot of the Kanye tweet on Instagram with the comment "Shiiit I hated i voted early real talk" followed by "So my bad I can vote again !" And from that [1], of unknown reliability, claims "2 Chainz is planning on casting his vote for" West and "took to Instagram to make his official endorsement" but then follows with "While it appears as though Chainz backs Kanye's decision to run 100%..." So is it just a plan to vote, or "official", or "appears", or what? Trick question, because you can't tell. But again, that didn't stop some wiki fanboys from digging until they found whatever would validate their own excitement.
- Masika Kalysha, citing a tweet at [2] — which no longer exists only 4 days later.
Stretching any of those into claiming a solid endorsement as fact is a WP:BLP violation and massive misinterpretation of WP:RS. See WP:SENSATIONAL, which makes sense as much for individual claims as for article notability: "Even in respected media, a 24-hour news cycle and other pressures inherent in the journalism industry can lead to infotainment and churnalism without proper fact checking, and they may engage in frivolous "silly season" reporting." Claiming that a living person, that is presumed to be as knowledgeable about the U.S. presidential campaign cycle as any normal American, nonetheless truly "endorses" a campaign starting less than 4 months from election day, is an WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim, and exceptional claims require exceptional sources. Hand-waving about "generally considered reliable" and "Twitter means the same as permanent documents now!" doesn't cut it. A sensational excitement point-of-view is a non-neutral point of view. --Closeapple (talk) 21:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- If reliable sources call it an endorsement, it should be included. Musk and Kardashian are also his advisors, this is a no-brainer. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 22:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I spent over an hour researching all this. I put the full explantion of why blindly declaring shallow sources "reliable" here is leading to conclusions that are contradicted by other reliable sources. I put a notice inline right in the article, saying not to put them back until there was a discussion. I then added a sentence asking not to remove the notice until the discussion was done also. Is there absolutely anything that anyone could have possibly done that would have convinced you that, when there is a removal and a discussion, you should wait for the discussion before restoring, like WP:BRD has said for years? --Closeapple (talk) 17:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have said before in discussions that if we simply went by what is in sources without using discretion, we might as well call it "Kardashianpedia". I had no idea how right I was. 2020 man. A bunch of celebrities tweet joking about Kanye are not endorsements. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I spent over an hour researching all this. I put the full explantion of why blindly declaring shallow sources "reliable" here is leading to conclusions that are contradicted by other reliable sources. I put a notice inline right in the article, saying not to put them back until there was a discussion. I then added a sentence asking not to remove the notice until the discussion was done also. Is there absolutely anything that anyone could have possibly done that would have convinced you that, when there is a removal and a discussion, you should wait for the discussion before restoring, like WP:BRD has said for years? --Closeapple (talk) 17:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
New Album
Why are people taking this seriously? This is so obviously part of his promotional campaign for his upcoming album and his latest single. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phil6875 (talk • contribs) 04:45, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Persistent vandalism
Can we do something about the persistent vandalism on the main article? It seems like every other edit of the last 20 is vandalism. Would WP:RFPP be the best place to resolve it? David O. Johnson (talk) 19:43, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- David O. Johnson, generally speaking, yes, request protection at RFPP. In this case, you don't need to, because I reviewed the article's recent edits and semiprotected the article for two weeks. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the quick response. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Alt Right?
Why would the Alt Right support two black people? Opinion pieces from Progressive newspapers do not count as reliable sources.
Guitarguy2323 (talk) 05:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- The political stance of the newspaper does not preclude it from being considered reliable. — Czello 06:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Kanye's mental illness
Kim Kardashian's statement on having compassion for Kanye given his bipolar disorder appears to me to be a necessary piece to add to this article, as his mania provides the context for this whole "campaign". I had avoided adding something about it prior as it would have been WP:SYNTH. This meets BLP and NPOV standards, depending on how we write it.[3] – Muboshgu (talk) 18:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Reverts by User:Nice4What
User:Nice4What, you have removed reliable sources from the article that characterize Michelle Tidball, Kanye West's running mate, as a Christian. You have also removed a reference detailing Kanye West's alignment with the Christian right. Please explain your edits here before reverting. Thank you. With regards, AnupamTalk 01:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC)