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: It is not a Wikipedia mirror and this is written by an Ethiopian historian so there is no biased going on here and his books are clearly referenced. You said the source doesn't mention Afar and Harari contribution when it does clearly. Funny how you say I am edit warring on multiple pages when you're doing the same thing from [[Zeila]] page while I was simply reverting unsourced additions from a sock and you're doing the same thing by changing it to Adal forces when the source I posted says Somali forces. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Adal forces were Somali and I can post multiple references. [[User:Ayaltimo|Ayaltimo]] ([[User talk:Ayaltimo|talk]]) 3:12, 12 December 2020 (UTC) |
: It is not a Wikipedia mirror and this is written by an Ethiopian historian so there is no biased going on here and his books are clearly referenced. You said the source doesn't mention Afar and Harari contribution when it does clearly. Funny how you say I am edit warring on multiple pages when you're doing the same thing from [[Zeila]] page while I was simply reverting unsourced additions from a sock and you're doing the same thing by changing it to Adal forces when the source I posted says Somali forces. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Adal forces were Somali and I can post multiple references. [[User:Ayaltimo|Ayaltimo]] ([[User talk:Ayaltimo|talk]]) 3:12, 12 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:: Where does it mention Afar or Harari in the source? Patrick makes no mention of that, I suggest you read it. The Ethiopian historian copied wikipedia word for word hence not reliable. [[User:Magherbin|Magherbin]] ([[User talk:Magherbin|talk]]) 03:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC) |
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Invasion or War
Wouldn't a better name for this subject be "The Invasion of Ahmad Gragn"? After all, Gragn did not see this conflict in terms of Adal vs. Ethiopia, but as Moslem vs. Christian. At least the author of the Futuh colors his account of this series of violent events with this mindset, separating his campaigns into the Ethiopian highlands into "The first Jihad", "The second Jihad", etc. -- llywrch 18:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
War
Hi there and thnx for getting involved with the article. I tried to have a discussion on the naming of this conflict on like 4 different pages and got zero feedback. I was gonna go with your title, but opted for this one for two reason
- 1...I figured the name was too cumbersom and would make the article hard to find
- 2...I figured a conflict between organized states for FOURTEEN YEARS was more than just an invasion. For instance, when America attack Iraq, it was dubbed "the american invasion of iraq" for the first year or two. After being there for two more, it became "the iraq war". just something to chew on there.
- 3...i went to a lot of trouble linking other pages with this article and really don't wanna change the name now.
I see your point tho. The war began and ended with Ahmad Gragn. But the Adal (it's a people as well as a sultanate) were the driving force in the fight. They had revolted against Ethiopia before. Ahmad Gran just made them successful.
On another note, 'm glad some1 has access to a book about this conflict cuz my personal library has virtualy nothing on the subject. I went with Abyssinian-Adal War or Ethiopian-Adal War to keep with naming traditions of other conflicts. I think we may need a redirect from the name u suggested tho. In terms of framing the conflict, pretty much all muslim rulers look at conflicts as "Believers" against "Infidels" during this period. That's propaganda 101. They used this terminology even against other muslim states. let me know what u think. hopefully some other folks will get involved and we can have a proper vote (and a proper page, lol) on this subject.Scott Free 20:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- I admit that finding information about this period in history is difficult. For example, the Futuh al-habasa was only available in a French translation from the late 19th century until a few years ago, when Paul Stenhouse published his English translation; however, this book takes things only up to the middle of the invasion. Then there are the two sources that R.S. Whiteway translated back in 1902 -- fortunately, you can obtain an electronic copy of this work in PDF format thru Google books. (More details at Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi and Dawit II of Ethiopia.) I've been slow in working on this due to inherent nature of working with primary sources: ignore the original research concerns, constructing a coherent narrative from primary sources is much like assembling a jigsaw puzzle, only you never know if you have all of the pieces! As for secondary sources, most of the ones I've found cover the 14 years at most a page or two, & often fail to have adequate access to all of the primary sources. Then there is the nationalist angle, e.g. was the Imam Ahmad Gragn a Somali? It's a tough topic, & not for the timid; I only wish I were less timid. ;-) llywrch 18:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- I actually have a copy of Pankhurst's translation of the Futuh although it's at home and not accessible to me right now, though I'm sure my library has a copy, so I'll work on this article when I can, but it'll have to be very infrequently. You should check out Pankhurst's Ethiopian borderlands, though, Llywrch. It covers the period covered by the Futuh with respective to the outlying provinces (basically all of the first years) extensively, which can help set up a basic chronology, although won't help that much in precise dates, strategies, attacks, etc. For that, you may try it's entry (I think under Ahmed Gragn) in the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- You guys rock! Thnx for putting those sources out there. i found an english translation of the Futuh al-habasa on amazon.com so i'll see if i can get my hands on it.Scott Free 19:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
HELP
Since every1's so interested in the name of this conflict, can we please get some contribs on the ACTUAL WAR?Scott Free 12:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Tena yistilign, I tried to improve the article a bit, I hope it's alright, I'm gonna work on it the next days by incorporating some informations given on the German wikipedia [1] and here[2].--RasNehemia 19:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
- thnx. of course it needs filling out and im not sure about all the fact but at least its something. you've done a lot more than us. :) Scott Free 20:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Yep, we definately need some references and confirmations for this article. It's all in all very vague and you're hardly able to find anything regarding this war on the Internet.--RasNehemia 14:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Rename to Abyssinian-Adal-War
The term Ethiopia was not used in the 15-16th century to refer the land now known as the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia. Instead of Ethiopia the land was known as Abbysinia. Runehelmet (talk) 22:04, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- And "Abyssinia" was not used at that time either; IIRC, the most common European label for this part of the world was "Hither India". "Abyssinia" comes from the local name for the inhabitants of the Ethiopian Highlands. So it's six of one & half-dozen of the other; one could make an argument for either "Ethiopia" or "Abyssinia" based on personal preference. -- llywrch (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I think all things considered both have value, I do prefer Abyssinia, because at least it is closer to Adal. Like UK - Roman history, ..I dont know. How do most historians refer to it? that would be the issue.? per WP:TITLE--Inayity (talk) 17:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, Abyssinia appears most accurate. It denotes a specific part of present-day Ethiopia (the highlands), where the other belligerent was based. This is also encapsulated in Shihāb al-Dīn's historic Futuh Al-Habash ("Conquest of Abyssinia"), which chronicles the war. Middayexpress (talk) 22:30, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
- I think all things considered both have value, I do prefer Abyssinia, because at least it is closer to Adal. Like UK - Roman history, ..I dont know. How do most historians refer to it? that would be the issue.? per WP:TITLE--Inayity (talk) 17:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- You guys don't seem to know what you're talking about. (1) “Ethiopia”'s been in use since the Greeks; was adopted by the Ethiopians themselves at least as early as Axum; and continued to be used by English-speaking Classicists throughout the entire period. (2) The land was known as Abyssinia (one B) to the Arabs from their name al-Habash(a) (so, yes, of course the Arab historian uses it but that should raise WP:POV flags in our coverage) and it was used much later once Brits started trading with them. In the 19th century, the Turkish and Egyptian usage gained in relative strength, but (3) it was never a done thing and Haile Selassie won a heart-and-minds tour during his WWII exile that got people to start using the local name again. (4) My own thought is, at this late date for a present-day article, "Abyssinia" is a needless archaic and unhelpful (and—given its status as an exonym imposed by one of the belligerents—POVy) name that doesn't serve our readers well.
- As Inayity pointed out, what's pressing is what this event is called by our contemporary historians. I can't find anything that clearly registers on Ngram—the COMMONNAME is probably something like "Somali invasion of Ethiopia" but that's skewed by other migrations and would obviously lead to confusion with the Ogaden War if we used it here—but the fact that every source on this page is using the name Ethiopia probably isn't a good sign about this move. — LlywelynII 13:27, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- (Having perused the etym pages to double-check myself, it looks like modern scholarship has discovered that ḤBŠT is attested in early South Arabian; referred to a group of people apart from the Axumites; and has since been adopted into Ge'ez to refer to some Ethiopian peoples. That does make it less pejorative but still doesn't make it any more current for English usage, any more likely to be the current scholarly usage, or any more accurate in describing the country, which was not ever known as any form of HBST except among the Arabs and Somalis.) — LlywelynII 13:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Motives
Is there any deeper insight into the motives for the invasion, there is always some reason beyond religious zeal.--Inayity (talk) 17:39, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- there's a few that can be mentioned 1. the wife of Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi may have persuaded him to avenge the killing of her father "Mahfuz" by abyssinian forces..interestingly she made her new husband "Nur ibn Mujahid" promise to avenge her ex husbands death before marrying her.. or 2. The tales of Amda Seyon I massacring muslims centuries before Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi could have ignited the need for invasion..3. destruction of Ifat Sultanate by abyssinians also in the book "futuh al habasa" its mentioned constant raids by abyssinian monarchs had set the boiling point. Baboon43 (talk) 02:14, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Let us put this in the article, even if we title it Possible Motives, I have seen it done with the Lebanese civil war.--Inayity (talk) 07:44, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- The root of the conflict between the Christian Abyssinians and the Muslim peoples of Adal actually dates much earlier to the 9th or 10th centuries, when Zeila was still Adal's headquarters [3]:
Middayexpress (talk) 19:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)"Many centuries of trade relations with Arabia began with the establishment of commercial colonies along the coast by the Himmyarite kingdom and these eventually developed into the two small states of Zeila or Adal in the north and Mogadishu in the south, where local dynasties of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somali ruled. The kingdom of Zeila, centre of the Adal Sultanate, is mentioned under this name first by Al-Yaqubi, then in the second half of the 10th century references occur in al-Istakhri, Ibn Hawqal, and al-Muqaddasi. Later descriptions come from Ibn Said, Maqrizi, and Abu'l-Fida. The Adal Sultanate with its capital Zeila thus appears to date from the 9th or 10th century and its history from its origins is the chronicle of a series of wars with Abyssinia."
- Let add it, I think it is important. Connects everything. --Inayity (talk) 19:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've added a short summarizing paragraph; should cover it. Middayexpress (talk) 20:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Let add it, I think it is important. Connects everything. --Inayity (talk) 19:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Let us put this in the article, even if we title it Possible Motives, I have seen it done with the Lebanese civil war.--Inayity (talk) 07:44, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- abit conflicting seeing in the 9th century existed sultanate of shewa which was absorbed by ifat then rose adal sultanate. although adal state existed it can be no motive into the invasion since ifat was the ruler of the region so its more acceptable to say ifats destruction is a motive
- "9th century onwards. The first to emerge was the sultanate of shoa, founded by a dynasty called mahzumi in 897 AD. Eventually torn by interrnal divisions and weakened by feuds with neighbouring Muslim dependencies its decline paved the way for its annexation by the Ifat sultanate. increasing strife with the expansionist christian kingdom in the north eventually led to the vanishing of ifat and the surfacing of another, the sulanate of Adal".Localising Salafism Religious Change among Oromo Muslims in Bale,Ethiopia-p.56-57 Baboon43 (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- The roots of the Adal-Abyssinian conflict date back further than that, to the period when Adal was still centered in Zeila [4]:
Middayexpress (talk) 17:20, 17 November 2012 (UTC)"Situated in the state of Ifat, Berbera formed part of the Muslim province of Adal, whose amir, or commander, was apparently strong enough to rule Ifat in the fifteenth century. Founded in the ninth or tenth century, Adal frequently served as a refuge for Muslims farther to the south, who sought to flee Abyssinian jurisdiction. Its rulers belonged to the ruling house of Zeila, and the history of the two areas was [sic] often linked. Adal reached its zenith in the fourteenth century, but declined precipitously during the Muslim struggles to conquer Abyssinia in the sixteenth century."
Article is wrong
Adal Sultanate occupied Ethiopia for 7 years or so. The emperor was on the run just like he was during the Second Italo-Abyssinian War. The article at the moment makes it seem like there was continues war for decades when thats not true. Im not sure how to go about reworking the article yet. Zekenyan (talk) 10:12, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
They didn't occupy all of Abyssinia.parts of Abyssinia such as Gojjam were not under Adal occupation and men of Gojjam Also formed the Abyssinian cavalry that slaughtered the Adalites at the last battle. Reporter104 (talk) 13:11, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
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Mogadishu Sultanate
Mogadishu Sultanate ended in the 13th century and the city Mogadishu was Ajuran capital since the 13th century while Abyssinian–Adal war was in the 16th century. You didn't even provide a source but a book with no references at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miledisco (talk • contribs) 11:59, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Muslim Abyssinians
Muslim Abyssinians also fought for their country the most notable being Ras Eslamu(the muslim) who was governor of Feteger province. However you hear many Ethiopian muslims(even Tigrayan and Amharan muslims)trying to make al-ghazi their hero not knowing that their ancestors fought lifting the green,gold and red. Reporter104 (talk) 13:18, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia Mirror
User:Ayaltimo the source you're using is a wikipedia mirror [5], you've edit warred with multiple people on multiple pages even breaking 3rr so im going to have to report you. Magherbin (talk) 03:02, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- It is not a Wikipedia mirror and this is written by an Ethiopian historian so there is no biased going on here and his books are clearly referenced. You said the source doesn't mention Afar and Harari contribution when it does clearly. Funny how you say I am edit warring on multiple pages when you're doing the same thing from Zeila page while I was simply reverting unsourced additions from a sock and you're doing the same thing by changing it to Adal forces when the source I posted says Somali forces. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Adal forces were Somali and I can post multiple references. Ayaltimo (talk) 3:12, 12 December 2020 (UTC)