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I removed some content claiming that the local population was thrilled by the arrival of Serbian troops. The two sources are not academic (one newspaper and one essayist of the early 1900s). Other sources, reliable ones, are needed. Oikonomopoulos might have sth of value, but I can not read it. [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 11:25, 26 October 2018 (UTC) |
I removed some content claiming that the local population was thrilled by the arrival of Serbian troops. The two sources are not academic (one newspaper and one essayist of the early 1900s). Other sources, reliable ones, are needed. Oikonomopoulos might have sth of value, but I can not read it. [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 11:25, 26 October 2018 (UTC) |
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:The removal was unjustified. The source is not newspaper, but the historian Čedomir Antić. Newspaper only published his text. The other source is carefully attributed. I will restore text.--[[User:Antidiskriminator|Antidiskriminator]] ([[User talk:Antidiskriminator|talk]]) 19:27, 26 October 2018 (UTC) |
:The removal was unjustified. The source is not newspaper, but the historian Čedomir Antić. Newspaper only published his text. The other source is carefully attributed. I will restore text.--[[User:Antidiskriminator|Antidiskriminator]] ([[User talk:Antidiskriminator|talk]]) 19:27, 26 October 2018 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Antidiskriminator}} Albanians are committing genocide against Serbs, Albanians wanted to be under Serbian rule etc. All of these coming from you sourced only to Serbian sources of the great conflicts era. Either find some RS or move on and make other improvements to the article. [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 19:32, 26 October 2018 (UTC) |
Revision as of 19:32, 26 October 2018
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DYK nomination
Durrës County (Kingdom of Serbia)
County
- The title is a made-up term of Antidiskriminator.
- Knjiga o Kosovu isn't RS:
- by Jasna Dragović)
- Despite its relative backwardness and isolation, Kosovo’s status as a focus for Serbian nationalism and flash point for armed conflict has generated a large literature describing the region’s history. The Kosovo problem is evoked from a Serbian perspective in Dimitrije Bogdanović, Knijga o Kosovu.
- author of a very influential study called Knjiga o Kosovu, which was published among the numerous revisionist writings of 1985 was Dimitrije Bogdanovic
- Bogdan Popovic was a conservative politician and essayist of the interbellum period in Serbia i.e not RS.
- Milosevic's propaganda newspaper isn't RS. Btw the article constantly explains to the reader the national rights of Serbia.
- As no part of that area was ever ceded to Serbia there is no territorial succession.
--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:49, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- The title of the artcle is defined according to "Wikipedia:Naming conventions. "An otherwise notable topic has not yet received much attention in the English-speaking world... If this happens, follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about".
- Will you please provide link to the RSN which defined Knjiga o Kosovu as non-rs. Btw, the links you provided talk about authors opinion about Kosovo, not Durres or Durres County.
- Will you please provide a link to the policy which support your claim that conservative politicians and esseyists of the interbellum period in Serbia are not RS? Or to RSN which support such claim?
- The text written by contemporary historian Čedomir Antić is published in Večernje novosti in 2010, four years after Milošević died and ten years after he lost all his power.
- The word "ceded" is not used in the article. On the contrary, it is clearly emphasized that this county was established " on the part of the territory of Albania occupied from Ottoman Empire during the First Balkan War."
- Taking above mentioned in consideration, there are no POV issues proven or disputes, so please remove tags you added to this article. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:34, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- This is not a subject that hasn't received much attention, but nobody has ever even documented it as an event. Even in Yugoslav works the Slavic translation appears only once in Knjiga o Kosovu. Please stick to RS and NPOV i.e you can't write an article about the activities of the Serbian army and use only Serbian dubious sources by authors, which are labeled as nationalists/revisionists etc. by everyone else. Btw you have only one sources mentioning the phrase, however, as there's no documentation in English you shouldn't translate Okrug to match the English translation of the modern county.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- I still can conclude that I was right when I wrote that there are no POV issues proven or any disputes of factual accuracy. Please remove tags you added to this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- In order to remove the tags I'll have to remove most of the article's content. That being said the topic exists only in wikipedia and isn't documented at all anywhere else. At the very most there's a sentence in the partisan work Knjiga o Kosovu about this okrug. Btw the infobox will go too, because there was no intermediate rule between Ottoman Empire and independent Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- Since the name had to be made up by Antid, it's clear that there is no such thing as a Serbian Durres County. As far as I can tell, Durres was just part of an occupied zone, much like northern Iraq was occupied by the Americans where they set up their own governors (Jay Garner) and the Americans claimed that Iraqis were celebrating their occupation by a foreign country. The parallels aren't absolute but it would be ridiculous to claim that northern Iraq is/was the 51st American state.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 15:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
- In order to remove the tags I'll have to remove most of the article's content. That being said the topic exists only in wikipedia and isn't documented at all anywhere else. At the very most there's a sentence in the partisan work Knjiga o Kosovu about this okrug. Btw the infobox will go too, because there was no intermediate rule between Ottoman Empire and independent Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- I still can conclude that I was right when I wrote that there are no POV issues proven or any disputes of factual accuracy. Please remove tags you added to this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- This is not a subject that hasn't received much attention, but nobody has ever even documented it as an event. Even in Yugoslav works the Slavic translation appears only once in Knjiga o Kosovu. Please stick to RS and NPOV i.e you can't write an article about the activities of the Serbian army and use only Serbian dubious sources by authors, which are labeled as nationalists/revisionists etc. by everyone else. Btw you have only one sources mentioning the phrase, however, as there's no documentation in English you shouldn't translate Okrug to match the English translation of the modern county.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Full protection
Per Antidiskriminator's request, I have fully protected the article for 5 days in the state it was in prior to the request (i.e., not giving Antidiskriminator the "last move advantage"). This is, of course, the WP:WRONGVERSION (as would the version Antidiskrimator prefers). Please work it out here on talk. Furthermore, please note that this article falls under the general sanctions imposed by the Arbitration committee on all articles related to the Balkans (see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Final decision) as such, administrators may impose, at their own discretion, sanctions on any editor working on pages broadly related to the Balkans if the editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:40, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Members of the administration of the Durres within Serbia's county
Besides already presented source, I listed below some additional sources which support information added to the article:
- Dinić, Dragoljub M. (1922), Prvi put kroz Albaniju sa Šumadijskim albanskim odredom 1912 : Prizren--Drač (First time with Šumadija-Albania division in 1912: Prizen — Durres (in Serbo-Croatian), Kragujevac: Šumadija, p. 84, OCLC 555240022,
За председника општине Драча: Петра Ђурашковића из Драча. За чланове одбора: Христос Спиру, Имама Хусеин Ефендију и Филипа Серића.... As mayor of the city of Durres: Petar Đurašković from Durres. For city council members: Hristos Spiro, Imam Husein Efendi and Filip Serić.
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(help) - Lazarević, Milutin D. (1934) [1929], Naši ratovi za oslobođenje i ujedinjenje: Srpsko-turski rat 1912 godine (Our wars for liberation and unification: Serbian-Turkish war of 1912 (in Serbian), Belgrade: Štamparija "Zlatibor", p. 187, OCLC 65691219,
а 16. стигао је у Драч, где је био одушевљено дочекан од стране тамошњег хришћанског становништва (On 16th [29th by the modern calendar] he arrived in Durres where he was enthusiastically welcomed by the local Christian population
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(help) - Korsika, Bojan, Srbija i Albanci : pregled politike Srbije prema Albancima (Serbia and Albanians : survey of policy of Serbia toward Albanians, OCLC 603117412,
Posle osvajanja Albanije ona pod naslovom "Drački okrug" ponosno objavljuje: "Vrhovna komanda je već obrazovala srpsku oblast, koja nosi naziv Drački okrug... Arnauti će dobiti sve slobode, i u toj pravoj državnoj slobodi će se oplemeniti.... After Albania is captured it was proudly announced under title "Durres County": Supreme command already established serbian district which name is "Durres County"...Albanians will have all rights and they will be refined in such real free country
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(help) - Petrović, Dragoljub S. (1990), Heterogenost stanovništva determinanta složenosti rešenja političkog statusa albanskog prostora (Heterogeneity of the population as determinant of the complexity of solving the political status of the Albania) (in Serbian), pp. 237–271, OCLC 439985244,
Potom, 29. novembra 1912. formiran je Drački okrug u okviru kojeg su srezovi - Drač, Tirana, Elbasan i Lješ. ... On November 29, 1912 the Durres County was established and in it there were established the follwing districts - Durres, Tirana, Elbasan and Lezhe
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--Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:42, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Corruption of some army officers and lost initial enthusiasm of Christian population
There are a lot of useful information about the situation in the Durres County of Kingdom of Serbia presented in this source:
Korsika, Bojan, Srbija i Albanci : pregled politike Srbije prema Albancima (Serbia and Albanians : survey of policy of Serbia toward Albanians, OCLC 603117412 {{citation}}
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Here are some short notes about it:
- Corruption of some army officers and robbing of local population which rebelled. The above mentioned source explained that there was serious corruption of some army officers led by the commander of Albanian division in Durres. Army was in charge for taxes collection and he organized some of his officers to collect taxes (and often rob the local population) and kept part of those taxes for themselves. When supreme command realised what was happening that commander was forcibly retired but in the meantime there were cases of robbed and mistreated local population which sometimes rebelled because of that.
- Initial enthusiasm of local Christian population soon was gone. Christian population of part of Albania annexed by Serbia was very happy after "liberation" from Ottoman Empire. They even organized some manifestation in honour of the "liberators". But soon their enthusiasm was gone because:
- they realised that all taxes are kept by army instead to be used to finance needs of the local population
- that wealthy local Ottoman beys managed to keep their old privileges like there is no change of the system from feudalism to capitalism. Therefore local Muslim beys were very loyal to the new authorities who protected their position and propriety.
But the final consequence was that other local population (lower and middle class) was unhappy with new authorities and after the army of Serbia retreated some of the members of former administraion were even killed, like mayor of Kavaja whose name was Leonida Mineo. Besides him, several Albanians and Greks were killed under new adminitration from the same reason. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
This administrative unit existed
There are numerous sources presented on this talk page and the article (many of them during the period when this article was protected) which confirm existence of this administrative unit. Users who claim that it did not exist have not presented any source which support their claim. That means that tags for disputed accuracy and neutrality are not supported with sources.
Taking that in consideration I conclude:
- this administrative unit existed and this article should have appropriate infobox
- there is no reason to keep this article marked for accuracy and neutrality because no sources are presented which support adding such tags
--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
- At this point, I recommend that anyone who still believes that this is a POVFORK take it to AfD. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- The title Durrës County shouldn't be used because we don't have any English-language sources about the subject, but few Serbian-language ones using the term Okrug, which has many possible translations i.e the title should represent the sources, not the user's perception of the proper translation of the title. Infoboxes are used for entities that formally existed as part of a state structure, however, the territory that the Serbian army was in control of for about half a year was never annexed by Serbia i.e there's no Ottoman Empire>Kingdom of Serbia>Albania administrative transition, because until the London Conference of 1913 all of the territories of the Ottoman Empire in Europe were parts of the empire, while after the treaty these provinces of the empire were included in Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 13:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- "The title Durrës County shouldn't be used because we don't have any English-language sources about the subject" - Can you please provide a link to the wikipedia policy which forbid article titles translated to English language?
- "the territory that the Serbian army was in control of for about half a year was never annexed by Serbia" - That is totally incorrect. All territories Serbian army captured in the First Balkan War were annexed by Serbia. Some of them are still part of Serbia, almost hundred years after the First Balkan War started.
- "while after the treaty these provinces of the empire were included in Albania" That is also totally incorrect. Even after the treaty of London, almost all Ottoman provinces occupied by the army of the Kingdom of Serbia remained in Serbia. Will you please be so kind and read Wikipedia:Competence is required.
- "until the London Conference of 1913 all of the territories of the Ottoman Empire in Europe were parts of the empire" - Good. In that case please be so kind to add the same information you added to this article ("an unrecognized entity") to the article about Provisional Government of Albania? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Translating a term, which has multiple definitions and insisting on using your translation, while there's an article for the term okrug is WP:OR. Antid. Serbia never annexed any of the areas mentioned in this article. The term okrug is also translated as district as in the case of the Federal districts of Russia. However, this subject hasn't been covered by English-language sources making it wrong to pick one of the possible translations and using it as if it represents the proper translation of the term. Whenever such a decision can't be made the term should be used without any translation and that's not uncommon at all (Central Administrative Okrug etc.)--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 14:36, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- The title Durrës County shouldn't be used because we don't have any English-language sources about the subject, but few Serbian-language ones using the term Okrug, which has many possible translations i.e the title should represent the sources, not the user's perception of the proper translation of the title. Infoboxes are used for entities that formally existed as part of a state structure, however, the territory that the Serbian army was in control of for about half a year was never annexed by Serbia i.e there's no Ottoman Empire>Kingdom of Serbia>Albania administrative transition, because until the London Conference of 1913 all of the territories of the Ottoman Empire in Europe were parts of the empire, while after the treaty these provinces of the empire were included in Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 13:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 14:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
And the point of the article is?
Practically not a single English source even for the (pompous) name and a clear WP:FORK of Serbia in the Balkan Wars. Also is way to far in WP:OR territory. Aigest (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- You maybe did not notice the recommendation left by uninvolved editor who is also administrator. I will repeat it to you: "At this point, I recommend that anyone who still believes that this is a POVFORK take it to AfD." Therefore I will remove tags you added into this article without presenting any source which dispute any information presented in this article. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I have mentioned in the previous section too many times that the title is your translation, which is nowhere to be found in English-language sources so could you please reply without WP:IDHT to my comment?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:23, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- This was reply to Aigest's comment. If you believe that this article should be renamed, there is a procedure for that.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:32, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Are you saying that you're even going to reply to my comment about you using a translation about the subject that exists only on-wiki?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- The existence of the subject of this article is supported by numerous sources I presented. I did reply to your comment. Let me paraphrase it if it was not understandable: If you think my translation is wrong and if you believe there is better translation and if you believe that this article should be renamed you are free to follow the procedure for renaming the article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Only warning, Antidiskriminator: you're being tendentious and failing to actually engage in the dispute. Rather than address the concern that your particular translation is OR, you're ignoring the issue and placing the burden unfairly on others. If you continue to game the discussion rather than actually justifying your actions (for example, why you chose the translation you did), I will block you under the WP:ARBMAC). Qwyrxian (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- And I should clarify my earlier comment: when I recommended taking this to AfD, I didn't mean to say that that was the only option now available to editors who disagree with the article. I made that statement because 7 days had passed with no discussion. If editors are willing to discuss the issue here, then they should do so. There will not be edit warring over the tags. I still believe that an AfD may be the appropriate choice, but it's not the only one, as it depends on the exact complaint. ZjarriRrethues, are you suggesting that the article simply needs to be renamed, or are you, like Argeist, suggesting this is an unsavable POVFORK/OR? Qwyrxian (talk) 22:11, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- The existence of the subject of this article is supported by numerous sources I presented. I did reply to your comment. Let me paraphrase it if it was not understandable: If you think my translation is wrong and if you believe there is better translation and if you believe that this article should be renamed you are free to follow the procedure for renaming the article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Are you saying that you're even going to reply to my comment about you using a translation about the subject that exists only on-wiki?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- This was reply to Aigest's comment. If you believe that this article should be renamed, there is a procedure for that.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:32, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I have mentioned in the previous section too many times that the title is your translation, which is nowhere to be found in English-language sources so could you please reply without WP:IDHT to my comment?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:23, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I thought that it was obvious that I translated the subject of the article the best I could.
- The name of this administrative unit on Serbian language is Drački Okrug. There are two words. Drač and okrug. Drač is name of Durres on Serbian language. Okrug means county on english language. I think that I did not make mistake when I translated it to county because if you go to google translate it gives two alternative translations of serbian word okrug to english language: district and county. Therefore the translation of name on serbian language Drački okrug is County of Durres or District of Durres.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I followed the practise of another article about administrative divisions in Serbia. Subdivisions of Nedić's Serbia. It clearly says: The country was divided into counties (Serbian: okrug) and districts (Serbian: srez). I could not use district as name because this administrative unit already had four districts (srez). Therefore I used county as name.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
(unindent)The article should firstly be moved to Durrës okrug and then we can step-by-step deal with the rest. The meanings of the work okrug vary from district to department and as there's not any English-language source about it, use the term okrug as many other articles do. Btw while you're translating srez as district, Google Translate translates it as county etc. The infobox, which was added by Antid., removed by Majuru and finally reverted by Antid. when you fully protected the article uses the 2004-2010 Coat of Arms of the Republic of Serbia as the coat of arms of a ..1912 entity. Even if it resembles the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Serbia it'd still be wrong to use it. That being said the Coat of Arms was probably that of the royal family[1], but obviously they didn't use it as the CoA of every single province of their state.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Let us focus on the translation issue in this section.
- I already explained that I did not make mistake when translating to English language and I explained what was the practice with administrative units of Serbia from that period. Will you please why do you think we should rename this article to Durres okrug? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:40, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- The editors, who wrote Subdivisions of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia may also think that their translation district is the right one but Antid. I've been asking for English language sources that say that this entity in Durrës was called a county and instead of providing that source you're not even trying to find it.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I already explained that I did not use sources on English language, but translated the name to English language the best I could, having in mind the current practice. I don't have any source on English language for the translation of name of this administrative unit to English language. Not for the County of Durres, nor District of Durres nor Durres Okrug or any other name on English.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Don't you think that we should stick to the sources and not translate them as we see best? Many articles in wikipedia are titled X Okrug.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I don't agree. I already explained why I did use that translation and what is the current practice with administrative units of Serbia from those days. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Don't you think that we should stick to the sources and not translate them as we see best? Many articles in wikipedia are titled X Okrug.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- I already explained that I did not use sources on English language, but translated the name to English language the best I could, having in mind the current practice. I don't have any source on English language for the translation of name of this administrative unit to English language. Not for the County of Durres, nor District of Durres nor Durres Okrug or any other name on English.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- The editors, who wrote Subdivisions of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia may also think that their translation district is the right one but Antid. I've been asking for English language sources that say that this entity in Durrës was called a county and instead of providing that source you're not even trying to find it.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the correct translation of okrug, if, in fact there is "one" translation, and therefore the title of this article, either a Requested Move or an Request for comment are probably the best way to go. Things you'll want to account for are the name we use for current and historical administrative subdivisions of Serbia (see Districts of Serbia and Subdivisions of Nedić's Serbia), other information about Okrug, and our policies on WP:Article titles and verifiability. However, ZjarriRreuthues, if you eventually plan to argue that the article should be deleted, you may simply want to ignore this and move to a deletion discussion (no reason to have a big discussion about the article title if the underlying article isn't going to survive). Note that I have absolutely no opinion about the name, translation, or suitability of the article itself. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:36, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
- During the Balkan wars, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, Serbia conquered many Ottoman territories. In every single village occupied usually there were journal reports of crowds cheering, welcoming etc (big deal!). Up to the moment where political borders were decided by London Treaty the regions occupied were under military rule, as usual. And this situation lasted only for a couple of months, while occupying troops retreated to their respective countries. Now imagine articles for every single small region shortly and very temporarily occupied in every war. That makes nonsense since usually A. it doesn't fulfill notability issues and B. the content is usually content fork of other articles, (in this case Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars) C. it leads to POV issues and disputes and we can add a D. in this case being an WP:OR. If you find any interesting info on that issue just merge it to the above mentioned articles. Aigest (talk) 08:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- A, the article about this administrative unit fulfills the notability issues because there are numerous sources about it. B, the article about this administrative unit is article about administrative unit which existed and is not fork because there are no other articles about this administrative unit C I don't agree that the article about this administrative unit necessarily lead to POV issues and disputes. D This article is not OR because every information presented in this article is supported with referenced sources. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:44, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- Let me see:A Wikipedia:Notability "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Practically every single sentence in the article points to different references varying from 1922 to 2010 magazines and newspapers and this constitutes WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Now which peer reviewed source address the subject Durres county(?!) directly in detail? Apparently there is none. Moreover you get no google hits on that topic except wiki source. B As itself is not notable (you have no story to tell Antid) the article is clearly a fork content of Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars. If you think that such generic sentences as "the Serbian troops were welcomed" "they appointed local governors and "they retreated" deserve to be in another article separated from Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars than you have no idea of what fork content is for. As for C POV issues we have 1922 Serbian newspapers variant vs International Committee investigations (see Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars) and that is just one point. D is explained above. Aigest (talk) 10:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- This administrative unit existed and deserves its article. I presented numerous sources which directly mention this county which prove it existed. I already provided numerous sources and quotations and explained on this talk page that there are sources covering the subject in details. This is an article about administrative unit. There are no other articles about this administrative unit in wikipedia.
- Qwyrxian, will you please be so kind to explain me what should I do now in order to avoid being blocked? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- Right now you're fine, Antidiskrimnator; I appreciate you answering the questions addressed here. Of course, there's still disagreement. Aigest, if you think the article should be deleted, you're going to have to nominate it for deletion on the grounds you listed. The issue is clearly contentious enough to need an WP:AfD; if you don't know how to set that up, let me know and I will assist. If you don't wish to pursue that, and want to pursue a merge or something else, there are processes for that, too. If you don't want to pursue those options, but just want to change the article text, perhaps an RfC is in order (if you can specifically frame what needs to be changed). Once you indicate whether or not you want to AfD, then we can reconsider the naming issue that ZjarriRrethues raised. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- Let me see:A Wikipedia:Notability "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Practically every single sentence in the article points to different references varying from 1922 to 2010 magazines and newspapers and this constitutes WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Now which peer reviewed source address the subject Durres county(?!) directly in detail? Apparently there is none. Moreover you get no google hits on that topic except wiki source. B As itself is not notable (you have no story to tell Antid) the article is clearly a fork content of Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars. If you think that such generic sentences as "the Serbian troops were welcomed" "they appointed local governors and "they retreated" deserve to be in another article separated from Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars than you have no idea of what fork content is for. As for C POV issues we have 1922 Serbian newspapers variant vs International Committee investigations (see Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars) and that is just one point. D is explained above. Aigest (talk) 10:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- A, the article about this administrative unit fulfills the notability issues because there are numerous sources about it. B, the article about this administrative unit is article about administrative unit which existed and is not fork because there are no other articles about this administrative unit C I don't agree that the article about this administrative unit necessarily lead to POV issues and disputes. D This article is not OR because every information presented in this article is supported with referenced sources. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:44, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- During the Balkan wars, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, Serbia conquered many Ottoman territories. In every single village occupied usually there were journal reports of crowds cheering, welcoming etc (big deal!). Up to the moment where political borders were decided by London Treaty the regions occupied were under military rule, as usual. And this situation lasted only for a couple of months, while occupying troops retreated to their respective countries. Now imagine articles for every single small region shortly and very temporarily occupied in every war. That makes nonsense since usually A. it doesn't fulfill notability issues and B. the content is usually content fork of other articles, (in this case Albania during the Balkan Wars and Serbia in the Balkan Wars) C. it leads to POV issues and disputes and we can add a D. in this case being an WP:OR. If you find any interesting info on that issue just merge it to the above mentioned articles. Aigest (talk) 08:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the correct translation of okrug, if, in fact there is "one" translation, and therefore the title of this article, either a Requested Move or an Request for comment are probably the best way to go. Things you'll want to account for are the name we use for current and historical administrative subdivisions of Serbia (see Districts of Serbia and Subdivisions of Nedić's Serbia), other information about Okrug, and our policies on WP:Article titles and verifiability. However, ZjarriRreuthues, if you eventually plan to argue that the article should be deleted, you may simply want to ignore this and move to a deletion discussion (no reason to have a big discussion about the article title if the underlying article isn't going to survive). Note that I have absolutely no opinion about the name, translation, or suitability of the article itself. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:36, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
CoA in the infobox
Infobox former subdivision is used in this article and one user expressed his concern that I used wrong CoA in this infobox. This administrative unit was subdivision of the Kingdom of Serbia and it had the same as coat of arms of modern Republic of Serbia. I added that coa because because as far as I know the counties of the Kingdom of Serbia did not have their own coa but they used coa of the Kingdom of Serbia.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: rename. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:18, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Drač County (Kingdom of Serbia) → Drač County – To the extent that this is a real county at all, rather than a pov-fork of a military campaign, it should be at Drač County; parenthetical disambiguation is not needed because there is no other similarly-named county. bobrayner (talk) 18:42, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose. The entity was a property of the kingdom so the overlord is appropriate. --Здраво свијете! (talk) 18:50, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Support per nomination. 23 editor (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Support No need for the bit in brackets, we're not disambiguating anything. IJA (talk) 16:52, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Lack of resistance
I removed some content claiming that the local population was thrilled by the arrival of Serbian troops. The two sources are not academic (one newspaper and one essayist of the early 1900s). Other sources, reliable ones, are needed. Oikonomopoulos might have sth of value, but I can not read it. Ktrimi991 (talk) 11:25, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- The removal was unjustified. The source is not newspaper, but the historian Čedomir Antić. Newspaper only published his text. The other source is carefully attributed. I will restore text.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:27, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Antidiskriminator: Albanians are committing genocide against Serbs, Albanians wanted to be under Serbian rule etc. All of these coming from you sourced only to Serbian sources of the great conflicts era. Either find some RS or move on and make other improvements to the article. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:32, 26 October 2018 (UTC)