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Pope Benedict XVI was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Symbolism of resignation date
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It should be noted that Joseph Ratzinger, ex-conscript in (Adolf) Hitler Youth, announced its resignation as Pope Benedict XVI on february 11th 2013, Benedict of Aniane and Adolf of Osnabrück feast day[1]. Maybe, this shoud be added in hid biography. NummerSechs (talk) 22:18, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- WP:SYNTH Elizium23 (talk) 00:23, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Close, but there's no conclusion. Not combining sources, just listing two. Just out of curiousity, NummerSechs, why should this be noted? Is there anything beyond it just being a sort of weird coincidence? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:22, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Please READ WP:SYNTH which says: Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. Emphasis is mine. Elizium23 (talk) 02:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I get that. But what's the implication? He announced his resignation on February 11, and February 11 was the feast day of saints with loosely-related names, therefore...? InedibleHulk (talk) 06:59, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Since, I do not agree at all with InedibleHulk & Elizium23's comments, I put also this discussion on their talk page. Everything a Pope does, speaks, writes, acts, etc. is think well in advance on a very symbolic basis. Denying that, without arguments better than a lawyer point of view, means a complete ignorance about the essence of Pope's role in catholic world & over other Christian churches. BTW, I'm French, not Anglo-saxon, learned german at school, (J. Retzinger is German) and I do believe that I have quite an authority to write that, since France is recognized Rome's first daughter. NummerSechs (talk) 05:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- we can just say that it happens to be the same day as those feasts and let the readers draw their own conclusions. otherwise it is WP:synth. I do know German quite well, I have taken 3 years of German classes, one year has been college-level. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 06:05, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- It should be noted that February the 11th, Catholic Church also celebrates Notre Dame de Lourdes a.k.a Our Lady of Lourdes (south-west of France). Another (non related ?) coincidence : François-Bernard Michel who co-presides the Lourdes Medical Bureau[2], presides also the French National Academy of Medicine for the year 2013. He is also member of the Académie des Beaux-Arts, he presided twice, at Institut de France, chair XIII, created in 1998. NummerSechs (talk) 06:15, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- February 11 is Pope Gregory XIV's birthday. "Pope Gregory XIV" is an anagram for "pix very poor egg". After he resigns, the conclave picks Francis, who's all about the poor and sort of looks like an egg. Should also be noted. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:11, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Very good. Before rushing in with this sort of thing, people should know that "superficial similarities spawn spurious statements" and "capricious coincidences cause careless conjectures". -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 07:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- FWIW, Benedict XVI resigned on February 28, 2013. He merely announced his pending resignation on February 11. GoodDay (talk) 13:41, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is neither (A) logical, (B) notable, or (C) in the sources. It is like putting a prediction by Nostradamus and the Aztec calendar together to get a result. Please KEEP THIS OFF THE ARTICLE. >> M.P.Schneider,LC (parlemus • feci) 16:40, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- February 11 is Pope Gregory XIV's birthday. "Pope Gregory XIV" is an anagram for "pix very poor egg". After he resigns, the conclave picks Francis, who's all about the poor and sort of looks like an egg. Should also be noted. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:11, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
- It should be noted that February the 11th, Catholic Church also celebrates Notre Dame de Lourdes a.k.a Our Lady of Lourdes (south-west of France). Another (non related ?) coincidence : François-Bernard Michel who co-presides the Lourdes Medical Bureau[2], presides also the French National Academy of Medicine for the year 2013. He is also member of the Académie des Beaux-Arts, he presided twice, at Institut de France, chair XIII, created in 1998. NummerSechs (talk) 06:15, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- we can just say that it happens to be the same day as those feasts and let the readers draw their own conclusions. otherwise it is WP:synth. I do know German quite well, I have taken 3 years of German classes, one year has been college-level. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 06:05, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Please READ WP:SYNTH which says: Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. Emphasis is mine. Elizium23 (talk) 02:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Close, but there's no conclusion. Not combining sources, just listing two. Just out of curiousity, NummerSechs, why should this be noted? Is there anything beyond it just being a sort of weird coincidence? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:22, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Edit request on 15 April 2013
I would like to help editing this artilcle in grammar, spelling and formatting Gabriela.siade (talk) 15:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- You can! With this edit you became autoconfirmed, which means you can now edit semi-protected pages. Have fun! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 16:34, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
PP
PP is not abbrevation for "the Pope" but "Pastor Pastorum"! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.191.38.4 (talk) 13:48, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
not yet edit request -- suggest you not use "Cardinal Archbishop"
For "Early life, 1927-51" I see this:
At the age of five, Ratzinger was in a group of children who welcomed the visiting Cardinal Archbishop of Munich with flowers.
I'd suggest this: At the age of five, Ratzinger was in a group of children who welcomed the visiting Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, Archbishop of Munich, with flowers.
I don't like the use of "Cardinal Archbishop", because those are separate appointments! There is a slight problem with elevating this to edit request: Cardinal von Faulhaber is mentioned further down in this section, and perhaps such later reference might be abbreviated if he has already been mentioned. Cardinal von Faulhaber was elevated to that rank in 1921 when already Archbishop of Munich and before the future Benedict XVI was born, then he ordained Ratzinger as a priest in 1951 and died in 1952. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 17:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
GA Review
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Pope Benedict XVI/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Quadell (talk · contribs) 14:42, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Nominator: Aunva6
Looking over this article, I can see that it's thorough and well-written... but nonetheless, it will take a good deal of work to get it up to GA status. There are a number of minor issues which can probably be resolved fairly quickly, but there are also three major issues which will take quite a bit of work.
- Firstly, the main reason this article was delisted was the lack of inline citations. There are many paragraphs without inline citations, and even some controversial statements and direct quotes without citations. This will need to be fixed in order for the article to be promoted as a GA. For instance, there is only one citation in the "Archbishop of Munich and Freising", and it does not support most the statements in the section (date of appointment, motto, his autobiography, remaining cardinals from Paul VI, etc.) There is only one citation in "Ecumenical efforts", and it covers very little of the material in that section. There are no citations at all in the "Tone of papacy" section. The direct quote in the "Global economy" section is unsourced. In order for this article to meet GA criteria, you will have to go through each section and make sure that all major facts are adequately cited.
- Secondly, WP:MOSLEAD tells us that the lead section should summarize the body of the article. But because of that, it is usually unnecessary to cite material in the lead; instead, the facts should be cited where they appear in the article body. This lead gives a lot of information that is not present in the article body. Instead, all information in the lead should be reiterated (and expanded on) in the body, and should be sourced there. The only citations needed in the lead are direct quotes (e.g. "the pope of aesthetics") and particularly controversial statements that are likely to be challenged (e.g. "an unusual promotion for someone with little pastoral experience").
- And thirdly, this article begins with an "Overview" section. But the lead section is supposed to be the overview. The lead and overview sections should be merged, and any additional information that doesn't fit should be moved down into an appropriate section in the body. (For instance, the fact "The last pope named Benedict was Benedict XV..." could be moved into the "Choice of name" section.) This will require a substantial rewrite of the lead section, with the "Overview" section omitted, and lots of information moved to other parts of the article.
I haven't worked with you before, Aunva6, so I'm not sure how much work you want to put into this. I'll just leave these three major points open. If you get them taken care of in the next 7 days or so, then I'll go through and do the rest of the review. And if not, that's fine too. All the best, – Quadell (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
- thanks, this is my first GA nom. I'll see what I can do. hopefully some other regular editors can help. I don't have a ton of time available. strangely enough, the FAC process was faster (at least to get started) than the GAN process. i'll see what I can come up with for this article though. I'm not that great at re-writing, etc, but I'll give it a go... -- Aunva6talk - contribs 21:21, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm afraid I'm going to have to close this nomination as "not passing". If, in the future, the organization and citations are improved, feel free to resubmit the article as a GA nominee. All the best, – Quadell (talk) 12:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
- yeah... I kinda expected this. I just don't have the time anymore to do alot of the rewrites and stuff. 146.57.93.119 (talk) 13:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
- ^ Caholic online. February fest days http://www.catholic.org/saints/f_day/feb.php
- ^ Comité Médical International de Lourdes (in french) http://fr.lourdes-france.org/approfondir/guerisons-et-miracles/composition-comite-medical-international-lourdes