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:::No, he is not implying that. We can quote him exact, as a compromise, with an in-text attribution. Would that suffice? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 23:46, 14 April 2017 (UTC) |
:::No, he is not implying that. We can quote him exact, as a compromise, with an in-text attribution. Would that suffice? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 23:46, 14 April 2017 (UTC) |
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::::What's he implying then? You can quote it. But the text should at the right place with right interpretation. [[User:Akib.H|Akib.H]] ([[User talk:Akib.H|talk]]) 23:55, 14 April 2017 (UTC) |
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== Vague sources, misleading information: This article is becoming a mess == |
== Vague sources, misleading information: This article is becoming a mess == |
Revision as of 23:55, 14 April 2017
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When is Poila Baisakh ?
When is Poila Baisakh in the Gregorian calendar ? -- 199.71.174.100 00:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- In Bangladesh, the standard Bangla Calendar marks the day on April 14 each year. That's also when the national holiday celebrating it falls. --Ragib 15:26, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Transliteration
Should we mark this as Pohela Boishakh? Pahela Baishakh? --Ragib 15:27, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I am doing minor rewording of the texts, for conformity's sake I shall be using the spelling "Pohela Baishak" as used in the title of the article. In case, another spelling is decided, it may be changed.--Bhadani 17:09, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Hi Bhadani, in original Bangla spelling, the last letter is "Kha", not "Ka", so the correct transliteration should be "Pohela Baishakh". Thanks --Ragib 17:15, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Right now the title says Pohela Baishakh and the article describes Poila Boishakh. The transliteration in parentheses, following the Romanization of Bengali is Pôela Boishakh. Can we be consistent, at least between the title and each reference in the article? I know why it's difficult:
- Pôhela, Pohela, Pôela, Poela, Pahela, Paela, Poila, Paila...
- Boishakh, Baishakh, Baisakh, Vaisakh...
But still, we can come up with something, right? My vote is to not include the diacritics, but otherwise be as close to the standard Bengali pronunciation as possible, giving Poela Boishakh. (I'm assuming it's usually pronounced Pôela Boishakh.) --SameerKhan 18:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
- I'm a bit confused about this ... the day is called পহেলা বৈশাখ too in Bangla news media. I.e., Poela boishakh isn't an exclusive name for the day. --Ragib 19:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Is the Bengali calendar used in Bagladesh?
Besides Pohela Baishak, is the Bengali calendar really used in Bangladesh? Would the average person know what the current Bengali day/month is, or is the Islamic calendar the more common? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.174.10.252 (talk • contribs)
- Yes, it is. The islamic one is even more uncommon, not used other than religious programs. Many of the cultural programs in Bangladesh are defined in terms of the Bangla calendar. Examples include the Coming of Spring (Basanta utsab), Choitro songkranti, Maghi purnima, Poush mela etc. --Ragib 18:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Title
I decided to switch the title to Pohela Boishakh, based both on the Romanization of Bengali (minus the diacritic on pôhela) and on a Google search. Here are the results of that:
- 0 for poela baishakh
- 8 for pôela boishakh (which presumably includes "poela boishakh")
- 482 for pahela baisakh
- 749 for poila boisakh
- 835 for pohela baisakh
- 838 for pahela boishakh
- 1,050 for poila boishakh
- 2,350 for poila baisakh
- 2,630 for poila baishakh
- 4,010 for pohela boishakh
- 4,560 for pahela baishakh
- 5,000 for pôhela boishakh (which presumably includes "pohela boishakh")
- 5,080 for pohela baishakh
Even though the top hit was "Pohela Baishakh" (probably due to the fact that the Wikipedia article was called this at the time), I feel that "Pohela Boishakh" would be more appropriate. If we're using an "o" for the ô pôhela, we should definitely use an "o" for the o in boishakh, I feel. --SameerKhan (talk) 19:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! --SameerKhan (talk) 19:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Hindu new year!
@Akib.H: Please stick to community agreed content guidelines such as verifiability in WP:RS, and do not edit war nor cherrypick. This is a Hindu new year for Bengalis in India, while a cultural new year in Bangladesh, per the sources. We need to reflect all sides, per WP:NPOV. If you have concerns, please explain. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:18, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- It is based on Bengali calendar which was developed by Alauddin Shah, not Hindu Calendar. You cannot use encyclopedia to verify as they are tertiary sources (like wikipedia). You can insert the perspective of West Bengal in the West Bengal section, but not in the infoboox. Please don't edit war. Thanks Akib.H (talk) 17:22, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- No WP:FORUM-y discussion about Bengali calendar here, as you are mistaken about the complex history of the numerous lunisolar Indian calendars. We need to stick to what is verifiable in reliable sources. You misunderstand WP:RS, please read it again. Secondary and tertiary sources are the preferred sources in wikipedia. Feel free to take it to DRN. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- I don't know why you are discarding my source which says it's based on the Bengali calendar. I'll add other sources as well. You can take it to DRN. Akib.H (talk) 17:34, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Check this line "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources.". When dispute arises, wikipedia always prefer secondary sources over tertiary sources. Akib.H (talk) 17:37, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- That does not mean "tertiary sources cannot be used". Plus, if you read the policy further, when dispute arises, tertiary sources are to be consulted. We don't prefer secondary sources in cases of dispute, we consult tertiary sources per WP:PSTS. Among tertiary sources, wikipedia or other wiki site articles cannot be used as sources. The article already mentions Bengali calendar. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- First, you need to understand the significance of the wording in the bold line I posted above. It makes it quite clear the wikipedia prefers secondary sources over tertiary sources. I'm not saying you cannot use tertiary source. But if a dispute arises, a secondary source will have more value than a tertiary source. In this case, I have already added two secondary sources to prove my claim. Akib.H (talk) 17:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Actually in your edit warring, you only added one:
- Quote: Bengali new year, broadly celebrated by all Bengalis[1]
I just checked the source, and the source does not verify this on pages 96-98. I see a discussion of Bengali calendar, Akbar and uncertainty of its origin, but not the claim that "Bengali new year, broadly celebrated by all Bengalis". Is it on another page, or can you provide a quote like the way I did? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
References
- What I tried to claim is that the primary significance of this festival is the Bengal New Year and the source does imply that. You can also look at other sources, The Bangladesh Reader: History, Culture, Politics By Meghna Guhathakurta, Willem van Schendel (page 17), Constructing Bangladesh: Religion, Ethnicity, and Language in an Islamic Nation By Sufia M. Uddin (page 134). Akib.H (talk) 18:48, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Akib.H: The Sengupta source does not imply anything about a "Bengali new year festival" on those pages, nor anything about who celebrates it. If it does, quote that sentence on this talk page. You were edit warring with this! Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 21:32, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Ownership of article
I'm very much astonished to see the ownership of article being imposed by User:Ms Sarah Welch. She has provided counter argument for the Mughal Origins theory which is fine. But when I added the counter argument for the Hindu origins theory she simply reverted calling it unsourced when I actually added a source. The author is talking about Pahela Baishakh in that source, there is nothing OR or synthesize. Bangla san or Bangla sal means Bengali Calendar. I would urge Ms Welch to study the topic properly and refrain from edit warring and discuss it here. Akib.H (talk) 23:22, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Akib.H: I merely moved the text to appropriate section. No the source is not saying Bangla san or sal means "Pahela Baishakh". That is WP:OR. Neither you nor I own this article. Just avoid original research, nor edit war. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:31, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Akib.H: Please see the cited Salil Tripathi source published by Yale University Press. It clearly states Durga. Please do not be disruptive and add absurd tags, when the source clearly supports the content. Feel free to take it to DRN etc. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
- And you have reverted me again. This is getting quite disruptive. Bangla san or sal means Bengali calendar. Since these words have been derived from Arabic and Persian the author is implying that Pahela Baishakh must be started by a Muslim king. There is nothing OR here. You are clearly imposing ownership over the article. Akib.H (talk) 23:43, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
- No, he is not implying that. We can quote him exact, as a compromise, with an in-text attribution. Would that suffice? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Vague sources, misleading information: This article is becoming a mess
Somebody added that Muslim women perform Durga puja on Pohela Baishakh. I'm a Bengali living in Bangladesh and I've never seen or heard any women, Muslim or Hindu, performing Durga Puja on Pohela Baishakh. There is indeed a source, added to verify the information but it's inaccessible for me. The source though seems to be focused on some other topic and I'm not sure if it could be applicable here.
This is just one example of enormous misleading information in this article based on vague sources. I would urge people well-informed about the topic to contribute in this article and save from becoming a garbage. Akib.H (talk) 23:38, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Akib.H: Please read the article more carefully. It does not state that Muslim women perform Durga puja on Pohela Baishakh. It states something different. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:42, 14 April 2017 (UTC)